May 30, 2008

Glenn Greenwald, hater [Karl]

Glenn Greenwald (a/k/a “Rick Ellensburg,” “Thomas Ellers,” “Ellison,” “Wilson” and “Ryan”) was so upset by Politico reporter Mike Allen’s use of the phrase “left wing haters” on a radio show that he was compelled to e-mail Allen with questions including,  “Is anyone who believes that the media was too deferential to the Bush administration in the run-up to the war a ‘left-wing hater?'” and “Can you give a few examples of the ‘left-wing haters’ you were referencing?”

Allen essentially blew him off, which I totally understand.

However, for the record, I note that National Review’s Byron York did a fairly lengthy piece on Bush haters on September 4, 2003.  Shortly thereafter, TNR’s Jonathan Chait wrote an essay titled, “Mad About You: The Case For Bush Hatred,” which begins with “I hate President George W. Bush. There, I said it,” and extends beyond his policies to the way he walks and talks.  Chait added:

There seem to be quite a few of us Bush haters. I have friends who have a viscerally hostile reaction to the sound of his voice or describe his existence as a constant oppressive force in their daily psyche. Nor is this phenomenon limited to my personal experience: Pollster Geoff Garin, speaking to The New York Times, called Bush hatred “as strong as anything I’ve experienced in 25 years now of polling.” Columnist Robert Novak described it as a “hatred … that I have never seen in 44 years of campaign watching.”

Chait is clearly not a member of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy.  Nor are writers like David Corn and Hedrik Hertzberg, who are quoted by Howie Kurtz following up on Chait’s essay.  Kurtz also quotes from a column by Paul Krugman stating that “there is no way to be both honest and polite about what has happened in these past three years.”  Steve Benen blogged about the Chait piece: “It’s rare when one article can capture another person’s sentiment so perfectly that one finds himself nodding almost uncontrollably while reading it.” The late Molly Ivins was just fine with being called a hater.

Last year, Gary Kamiya wrote an essay titled, “Life After Bush,” which begins: “Hating George W. Bush sometimes feels like a full-time job.”  Kamiya is an editorial writer-at-large and former executive editor at Salon — the site for which Ellensburg is a regular columnist.

Then there is Glenn Greenwald, who once wrote a piece for his old blog titled, “Why I hate, rather than dislike, the Bush movement.”  Shortly thereafter, Greenwald wrote:

There are some people who treat our conflicts with the Bush administration and their followers as just a matter of basic, friendly political and policy differences—along the lines of “what should the rate of capital gains tax be?” or “what type of laws can best encourage employers to provide more benefits to their employees”—and therefore, we treat people who support the administration with respect and civility and simply have nice, clean discussions to sort out our differences among well-intentioned people.

That isn’t how I see that, and nobody should come to this blog expecting that. I don’t think I’ve done anything to lead anyone to expect otherwise. I see the Bush movement and its various component parts as a plague and a threat, as anything but well-intentioned.

In short, not all of the Bush Administration’s critics are left-wing haters, but some of them are.  Greenwald may not think of himself as left-wing, but he is — by his own words — a hater.

Posted by Karl @ 12:51pm

Comments (157)

  1. He’s really kind of a dick too. There I said it.

  2. Hater.

  3. A dick with more NY Times best selling books than you’ll ever have Education Guy. so there.

  4. [KKK wheelchair guy THEY SEE ME ROLLIN’ picture]

  5. And Mona post in 5, 4, 3, 2…

  6. The world is just not a fair place maggie.

  7. When it comes from Teh Gleen(s), it is not hate, it is a reasonable reaction to an untenable situation.


  8. At the end of Bill Clinton’s presidency I couldn’t stand listening to him utter one word. I wouldn’t call it hate, it was more like a visceral disgust.

  9. What stops reactionary leftist’s heads from exploding?

  10. Why do you continue to spew your vile hompophobic rhetoric about Glenn? It must be the fact that his words have been read into the Senate record, his writing inspired the NY Times to write something, and he is a multi-platinum recording artist performing live at The Blue Iguana … oops, I mean NY Times best selling author.

  11. are there right-wing or independent or moderate Bush haters, besides the lefty ones?
    Seems to me majority of the country is at this very moment.
    Glenn is wrong.
    And Allen is an asshole. I hate him…

  12. #9, Rob , I know the feeling.
    I had the same

  13. sashal,

    Hater. ;-)

  14. I am a conservative Libertarian, and I cannot stand Bush. I also advocate lying about Bush in order to pursue our narrative.

  15. I listen to a lot of hate radio.

  16. I hate a lot of radio.

  17. It is a lie, a lie and a smear, a lie and a smear and a swiftboat, a lie a smear a swiftboat from bigots, to use Glenns own words to quote Glenn.

    Good day, cabana boys.

  18. Mona’s new anti-depressant seems to have some side effects.

  19. I have a radio. I kind of hate it.

  20. True, Karl I also hate ballet too, even though russians are good at it.

  21. As we discussed yesterday, the Windsor Ballet is the greatest.

  22. Are DailyKos, FireDogLake and Pandagon blocked by Braziian firewalls?

  23. Jeffersonian – They are truth seekers, not haters.

  24. Peggy moistens, and sighs deeply. Scotty Boy gets her lathered up into a General Foods International Coffees moment like none she has known before. Feed it, Scotty. Feed it, baby boy.

  25. Pingback: One for Ripley’s | Cold Fury

  26. Windsor , Shmindsor.
    Nobody can beat Russians at that, JD

  27. The San Francisco Ballet and the American Ballet Company are pretty good.

    I like reading Greenwald, but he is sometimes a haterator and a hollerator. He gets himself worked into the vapors over Bush. I think he must remind Glenn of someone who beat him up on the way home from school when he was a kid.

  28. The San Fran ballet cannot compete with Windsor. Vegas and Tampa are the only places that are even in the same league. And, Budapest.

  29. Lisa – Given his annoying demeanor and propensity for mendoucheity, I suspect that the generic “someone who beat him up on the way home from school when he was a kid” description could apply to practically anyone he grew up with.

  30. Sashal, no…the Windsor Ballet company is fantastic. Remember Gelsey Kirkland? Dame Margot Fontaine? The Brits, with their chinlessness, brown teeth, and terrible food are, alas, great at Teh Ballet.

  31. According to Drudge, Susan Sarandon is moving if we rubes elect McCain.
    She apparently doesn’t hate Bush.
    She just hates anyone that doesn’t vote like her.
    Doesn’t that truthfully pretty much describe the majority of the Left though?

  32. i feel badly for radio it sucks so bad.
    I feel worse for me, since i voted for Bush and he sucks pretty badly.
    But I am completely willing to meet JD halfway on the Windsor Ballet issue. I reckon they dont suck at all.

    I have dreams of McCain winning so I can read ever word of a GG column. i mean, 2 months before he would be sworn in and GG would be absolutely raging. It would be clutch.
    But only if McCain didnt suck.

  33. Wow I didnt know that Vegas and Tampa had great ballet!?!?!? Shit I always get drunk and go see Tom Jones when I go to Vegas. Maybe I should get drunk and go check out some ballet next time.

  34. Allen essentially blew him off, which I totally understand.

    Thank God for the word “off”.

    Windsor , Shmindsor.
    Nobody can beat Russians at that, JD

    They probably have Russians dancing for the Windsor ballet by now.

    The San Francisco Ballet and the American Ballet Company are pretty good.

    Dunno. They serve beer? How are the couch dances?

  35. Hey Mona, looks like Chrisitine Smith isn’t happy either
    The LP as “The Party of Principle” is DEAD
    And Rob C. thought he was having a bad day.

  36. Dunno. They serve beer? How are the couch dances?

    Rob you are awesome. LOL.

  37. Once at the Windsor Ballet, I saw a girl dance to Tull’s “Living in the Past”. Which really surprised me, because it’s written in 5/4 time, and she didn’t miss a beat.

  38. Her name was something like “Aspen Extreme”, but I’m pretty sure it was just a stage name.

  39. Lisa , If you get to Vegas, get yourself to one of those Cirque du Soleil shows.
    I’ve seen two:”O” at Bellagio and “Mystere” in Treasure Island> some stunts are just mind boggling

  40. I thought you were talking about real ballet, JD. Hee hee. So embarassed.

    But I am sure the Russians have that market nailed down. They have the online porn market cornered.

  41. Not that I would know about online porn. My virgin eyes would burn.

  42. # 41.
    Is that so?
    How come I missed that.

    Lisa, with all this money west is willing to pay to prop Putin’s regime for it’s oil and natural gas, russian can be the first not only in porno as well…

  43. #43: I am preeeetty sure that Bush is not seeing good things when he looks deep into Putin’s eyes anymore. They are like, so over each other – like Lauren Conrad and Heidi Montag.

  44. Lisa – I was wondering when you would catch on. The ballet in SF is top drawer. I may have sat next to the gleeens. They all look alike, you know?

  45. Big, burly, mean biker dude strolls up to the piano player in the lounge.

    Biker: I have a request

    PP: [nervously] Uh, sure.

    Biker: Do you know “Strangers in the Night?”

    PP: [relieved] Of course. I’ll play it next set.

    Biker: [menacingly] No, you’ll play it now because I want to sing it. Got it?

    PP: [sweating] OK, sure, let’s do it.

    Biker: And another thing. I want you to play it in 5/4 time.


    Biker: NOW!!

    Piano player starts to improvise in 5/4 time and the biker gets to the mike and sings: “Strangers in the Fuckin’ Night…”

  46. Guys , catch up on you Cindy Sheehan update:

    A Japanese man who was mystified when food kept disappearing from his kitchen, set up a hidden camera and found an unknown woman living secretly in his closet, Japanese media said Friday.

    The 57-year-old unemployed man of Fukuoka in southern Japan called police Wednesday when the camera sent pictures to his mobile phone of an intruder in his home while he was out on Wednesday, the Asahi newspaper said on its Website.

    Officers rushed to the house and found a 58-year-old unemployed woman hiding in an unused closet, where she had secreted a mattress and plastic drink bottles, the Asahi said. Police suspect she may have been there for several months, the paper said.

    “I didn’t have anywhere to live,” the Nikkan Sports tabloid quoted the woman as telling police.

  47. JD: Glen just called. He said a cool grand if you’ll dress up in a tutu. (or at least tights)

  48. Lisa – Unless you are going to supply links, you should refrain from using that tramp Heidi’s name in the same sentence as the angelic Lauren Conrad, she of the wholesome and lovely smile (and a propensity to date douchebags).

  49. According to Drudge, Susan Sarandon is moving if we rubes elect McCain

    This is actually a vote for McCain PRO. He should use her in his campaign mailers.

  50. BJ – I am concerned that the gleeeeens know your phone number. As long as they do not ask me to touch my toes, I am cool with the tutu thing, but cash only.

  51. #45: Call me a day late and about 5 bucks short. I was thinking Royal Ballet Company until somewhere around #38 when a light came on and I remembered my brother saying that when he was stationed in NY, he would go over to Canada to see the “Windsor Ballet” – it sailed over my head then too.

  52. $5 bucks will get you a seat on the brass rail in Windsor ;-)

    I do not know what 5/4 time is, but if you are paying that close of attention to the music, as opposed to the scenery, Rob was missing the point ;-)

  53. OK, JD’s out. Anybody else want to fess up to not knowing what 5/4 time is?


  54. I denounce myself.

  55. JD,

    Waltzes are 3/4 time
    Most rock music is 4/4 time
    5/4 time is not usually dance music.

  56. #49: I am so sorry for such blasphemy. Lauren is Teh Awesome. She also has a Great and Terrible Blank Stare that always cracks my shit up.

  57. JD: Try Dave Brubeck and Take Five. ( 1 2 3 4 5 )

  58. Just checked the referrer log. Someone from AoP just stopped by. Shocka. Indignant sucking-up is imminent, I fear.

  59. I believe six impossible things before breakfast.

  60. So, 5/4 time is like for dancers that are having epileptic seizures?

    Kind of like Elaine on Seinfeld.

    Hi, Mona. I will not speak of the dingleberries.

  61. Let’s not forget some great Rock Other Time Signatures:

    Led Zepplin: “Fool in the Rain” 6/8

    Pink Floyd” “Money” 7/4

    Almost anything by Zappa: Almost any time signature

    Then you get into Indian Raga music and: Oy Vey!

  62. how the fuck the thread about GG hatred turned into the ballet and music thingy?

  63. Waltzes are 3/4 time
    Most rock music is 4/4 time
    5/4 time is not usually dance music.

    Try Dave Brubeck and Take Five.

    You learn something everyday!! Thanks!

    I had no idea. Though I took piano and guitar lessons as a kid (sucked bad though). I am such a rube.

  64. BJ what is “The Girl From Ipanema”

  65. As a precuationary measure, here’s BRD’s post linking Mona’s comments about refusing to debate things with her enemies, much like the Greenwald quoted above.

  66. The Michael J Fox Waltz is written in 5/4 time.

    I really denounce myself for that one.

  67. My favorite dance troupe is at the Claremont in Atlanta. They mostly like songs in 1/1 time, I think.

  68. Not sure what a girl from Impanema is, but it sounds like it would hurt.

  69. 6/8 is very common in Baroque music. 7/4, however, was less so. A lot less so. Like, not at all so.

  70. 6/8 was not uncommon is doo-wop music, which probably how you get “Fool in the Rain” from Zeppelin.

  71. This is why I enjoy you guys. Next time I get myself in one of these conversations, I can toss some random fact in there, sound like I know what I am talking about, and not look like a fool – which is no small feat for me. Y’all rock, in 6/8 time.

  72. how the fuck the thread about GG hatred turned into the ballet and music thingy?

    JD started it. I’m blaming him because I snickered at his MJF waltz riff and I can’t bring any denunciation on myself just yet.

  73. #67: I denounce myself for laughing at that. Wretch!

  74. Yea, BMoe. 1 dollar bills in the 1 thong. (lol)

    Lisa: 4/4 time. The off beat bossa nova makes it tough to count.

  75. BJ what is “The Girl From Ipanema”

    Half-time, I’d reckon.

    Uh oh. Now I’ve really done it…

  76. #69: LMAO! Fool!

    #75: Thank you. I love that song.

    Ah this is why I love this place. It just might be my favorite place on Teh Internets (Joan Walsh cries a little as I type that).

  77. Lisa: It’s the down beat that throws you off.

    Oh, crap.

    Double entendre alert!

  78. “Fool in the Rain” may be my all time favorite rock song. It’s virtually impossible to listen to that song and not want to get up and dance like a Bahamian junk a poo band (that would be the whistle section, which is in 4/4 time.)

    BMoe would attest that it’s a tricky little song to play on guitar, with some quick changing minor 7ths and major 7ths to confuse the mind.

    OK, I’ll stop now.

  79. Almost anything by Zappa: Almost any time signature

    Eleventy/a kazillion? Hit it. And don’t screw it up or you’re fired.

  80. # 72.
    And get that Girl from Ipanema
    This is awesome( I think)

  81. Don’t stop now, BJ! I was looking forward to discussing major and minor triads and flat sevenths!

  82. JD: Cool, Cool Bossa Nova for you, in its original form.

    Sorry for the Portuguese.

  83. I think the girl from Impanema was flat.

  84. I wonder if that Impanema chick looks like the one at the burrito place I go to for lunch everyday. Or is that a girl from empanada?

  85. Nah. Augmented.

  86. D’OH! html idiot

    The Girl From Ipanema (original)

  87. Well, we could get into microtiming — the milliseconds between the kick and the snare in a rock song. How drummers’ microtiming “pushes” or “pulls” the beat with their swing. Zep’s John Bonham sounded “heavy” because of his microtiming — his swing — was so long. Tha’s why stuff like “D’yer Maker” and “Fool in the Rain” sound so much like reggae that you ended up with Dread Zeppelin.

  88. Almost anything by Zappa: Almost any time signature

    Eleventy/a kazillion? Hit it. And don’t screw it up or you’re fired.

    Tightest. Band. Ever. (in any time signature)

    Is it true that he had a curfew for his musicians and carried pre-paid plane tickets to send them home if they caroused too much on the road?

  89. Put another way, it’s why old drum machines sounded so robotic — they hit exactly on the beat. It’s the milliseconds that drummers lead or lag the perfect count that makes ’em human.

  90. BJ,

    Don’t know about Zappa, but James Brown used to fine any musician or dancer for every missed cue.

  91. Plus no drum machine ever could pull of some of the stuff Bonham was doing on Kashmir.

  92. It would certainly take prodigious programming to get Bonham right. The other thing about him most don’t notice until it’s pointed out is how much of what he did was in all the little chicka-chicka percussion toys in the background. Too many wannabes think he was just about bashing the skins, but the percussion stuff was really textured.

  93. Karl: In addition to micro timing were the techniques used to “backbeat” certain jazz numbers to push beats in an odd way. Lenny White from “Return to Forever” was great at this especially into the ending measure beats. It was weird but cool.

    Strangest of all was Shakti, the link I posted above under Indian music. I saw them at U of Penn’s campus coffee shop. so fast and in goofy Raga time signatures like 11/12. John M’s guitar playing just blew into the gutter. Talk about micro timing!

  94. – I think she also had a clef in her treble JD.

    – I can’t remember the name of this tune just a few words…It was one of those piano bar type things…

    …Hey little girl, comb your hair, fix your makeup, soon he will be at you door….

    ….Wives should always be lovers too…, la daaa de daa da dah…

    – Not much help, but thats 5/4 too….

    – Has sort of a bouncy, stuttering beat….

    – American bandstand would rate it “too jumpy, and hard to dance to…..I give it a 35…”

  95. #58 Tex beat me to it. That’s the first thing I thought of too.

  96. Agreed, Karl.

    Plus, you really have to admire Jimmy Page’s production talent. Waay ahead of his time.

  97. For that matter, anyone who likes classic Motown who hasn’t seen “Standing in the Shadows of Motown” should make a point of seeing it. The house band (the “Funk Bros.”) discuss the jazz chords and rhythms they would drop into those pop songs.

  98. – I’m pretty sure Ipanema was 6/4, but she might have been a little shorter.

  99. Page was indeed underrated as a producer. He obviously was paying attention all those years as a session cat on the old Kinks, Who and Donovan records. (and with some of those, learning how not to produce a record)

  100. Bouncy stuttery jumpy beat? Kind of like the Parkinson’s Polka.

    Now, I condemn myself.

  101. – JD – Welk just rolled over in his grave.

  102. So this microtiming, it is essentially the imperfections that make it perfect?

  103. – Yes…. a good example of it is when you try to type out 40 year old records on a copy of MS Word…..

  104. BJ, I hope you will not get offended(seriously, this is all from my heart, with love), but one of the best contribution to the world culture Portugal can boast of is Brazil- incredible sexy cuming out of your ears music and eye staring girls,
    And note I am not even talikng about futball-soccer or Jose Saramango

  105. It’s the imperfections that make it human. Yor brain subconsciously “knows” when the snare drum should hit after the kick drum. Bonham’s drums seem to lumber because the snare comes much later than your brain expects (in microseconds). If it was much longer it really would sound like reggae.

    Charlie Watts is another guy with a lot of swing, though not as much as Bonham had. Think about that into to “Honky Tonk Women” as an example.

    Other drummers lead the beat by microseconds, giving the music a more propulsive, jumpy feel. But I’m blanking on a good example of that in rock.

  106. Dave Weckle

  107. I’ll be away for bit now.

  108. I was trying to pick someone really well-known, but really must go now.

  109. BMoe would attest that it’s a tricky little song to play on guitar, with some quick changing minor 7ths and major 7ths to confuse the mind.

    Never tried that one. I am more of a 4/4 boogie woogie cat, myself.

  110. Oops, he a jazz dude. Mind-blowingly hot drummer, tho.

    In rock, I can only think of session players. Jeff Porcaro, for one. The drummer in Dave Matthews Band.

  111. It’s the imperfections that make it human.

    And they’re what made Keith Moon a god.

  112. Charlie Watts is another guy with a lot of swing, though not as much as Bonham had. Think about that into to “Honky Tonk Women” as an example.

    Great example, the secret to the Stones groove is Charlie kind of hanging a bit and the bass guitar slightly pushing the groove. Thats what gives their slower songs that tension. It is a lot easier to explain than to do, though.

  113. Something about this thread makes me think about Don Ho’s Tiny Bubbles.

  114. Probably a good example of the difference between playing behind the beat (ala Bonham) and playing on top is Rosanna from Toto since Jeff Porcaro credited Fool in the Rain for the beat.

  115. Argggh…..

    I meant that since the beats are similar, you can really hear someone pushing the beat along and someone playing behind.

  116. Yeah, in terms of pushing the beat in rock, it’s more likely to be session guys who have jazz training.


    Another aspect to drop in conversation is songs that change time signature. For example The Beatles on “We Can Work It Out” — it’s 4/4 until you get to the “fussing and fighting, my friend,” at which point it drops into that 3/4 waltz time, only to switch back to 4/4 for the next verse. In fact, the beatles got into some fairly wacky time changes by the time they got to Abbey Road, and it’s a tribute to their songwriting genius that it’s not as noticable as it is on “We Can Work It Out.” For example, “I Want You (She’s So Heavy)” is 6/8 and 4/4 (and 2/4 in parts). Part of “Mean Mr. Mustard” is 12/8, iirc.

  117. You heathens. All this talk of drumming and no one has brought up His Highness?

    Awesome. Simply awesome.

  118. Or since Zappa was mentioned on this thread

  119. No disrespect meant to Peart — I’m just trying to pick obvious examples to illustrate specific points.

    And I think I have my rock drummer who pushes the beat — Stuart Copeland on the early Police records, esp. the uptempo stuff.

  120. Ballet and symphonies in surprising places exist because the local high-rollers want to be seen as sophisticated and cultured, no matter how they make their money or their actual antecedents. In the late nineteenth century every American town that could had an ‘opera house’ Which explains the Soviet Union and Las Vegas. Tampa, I’m not so sure about, but it could fit in. Detroit has an opera house (a restored 1920’s theater, which is gorgeous). Of course most of Detroit’s opera lovers don’t live in Detroit…

  121. In 5, I shoulda said.

  122. The girl from Ipanema was Brazialian, so I doubt she was flat.

  123. Karl – Thanks. That made sense to me, and I think I understand what you are talking about. Was reading Clapton last night, so this thread meshes nicely with his rambling about music that I never understood.

  124. Isn’t it great that a thread about haters devolved/evolved into a thread about music? Talk about squabbling non-haters here…

  125. JD,

    No problem. Truth be told, I am an abysmal musician; I have no left hand. But I hung around enough musicians and read enough about music to pick up a lot of comment #72 material.

  126. Karl, 128.
    No prob, I will play piano and you play guitar.
    I can do plenty of 70-90 music

  127. Heh. What do you call a guy who always hangs out with musicians?

    The singer.

  128. I once thought that Politico would be a pernicious new addition to our rotted media culture. Instead, it actually provides a valuable service by packing every destructive and corrupt journalistic attribute, in its most vivid form, into one single cesspool.

    Poor poor Gleen… The cesspool he sees is merely a reflection of his own environment, and one of his own making to boot. The foisting of a narrative at any and all expense (Keith Olbermann anyone) has left “Rick Ellensburg,” “Thomas Ellers,” “Ellison,” “Wilson” or “Ryan” wallowing in bile as he splashes about trying to get those with rescue equipment poised for assistance, hung as apostate.

  129. #85: LOL!! Is that the place that serves the La Bamba Super Burrito?

  130. si, senorita. Burritos as big as your head is their slogan.

  131. Lest we lose complete track of what this topic is, allow me to reset. Gleeeeeeeens, thomas, Ellers McEllerson, Wilson, Mona, and the rest are lying mendoucheous crapweasels that explore gerbil caves in their free time. Guano.

  132. The “Bush-haters” are basically farseeing and ahead of their time in seeing what the outcome of Bush’s policies would be: i.e. A War upon the Middle class and a reemergence of
    “Carlism”. The Bush family is seemingly a hereditary enemy of democracy and against freedom for the common man….they’ve always put family before country and privilege before fairness. Thus Rovian tactics, exploiting a terrorist act that Bush let happen, disparaging any and all who complained and rolling back of progressive and forward thinking policies…and thus we’ve reaped what we sow: out of control oil prices, lack of environmental planning, lack of caring for the future….just profits for now, more privileges for the ruling class and less of a middle class that America was once renowned for.

    thx for the John McClaughlin video…but doncha think he was just noodling his guitar and not making sense with his instrument?..playing ever faster and faster as an athletic feat and little else? Even if “jazz” he needed to let the music “breath” a bit and his twisted use of a manually limited instrument that has it’s own beauty and taking it into a ‘head-trip’ of where he thought it should go? Like maybe he should have studied composition and tonal dynamics instead of just playing faster and faster. Give me an old Oud or some Mali blues player or just a kid with an elevated sense of tone and memory anytime and a little song with the guitar as it’s basically meant for accompaniment or ‘parlor music’. Don’t get me wrong, I love the guitar. But Les Paul had the right idea…he saw it’s limits and it’s strengths and improved upon them…not just played faster.

  133. “Comment by N. O’Brain on 5/30 @ 1:14 pm #

    What stops reactionary leftist’s heads from exploding?”

    I don’t know, but if we could figure that out, the world eould be a much brighter place.


  134. wow, karl. good comments about the Beatles.

    I’d sang in a church choir for a few years despite being an “agnostic”. And it kept coming to me how similar the music of the Beatles was to much of the Anglo church songs we were singing….if it was “English” I’d see a little Beatlemania in it or vice versa. I think maybe after they got off the Chuck Berry type of stuff and let maybe a little acid flow they reverted to forms that weren’t that different than the more odd songs of the Victorian period (in churches). Sargent Pepper period stuff. Of course the blues never is far from any modern pop music unlike the Anglo Church stuff but for awhile John Lennon’s influence of perhaps his feeling of loss due to his mom’s death in the midst of his finding his way at seventeen and Paul’s almost feminine lyricism led to a churchly sound… such as “she’s leaving home”, “lucy in the sky w/ diamonds”, also Folky sounding too…in a pleasant country vicar’s way of singing. even that anti clerical kinda of song: ..”all the lonely people, where do they all come from…..”

  135. Comment by datadave on 5/30 @ 6:24 pm #

    “exploiting a terrorist act that Bush let happen”

    Oh, dd is a crazy trooootherâ„¢ crapweasel.

    That explains a lot.

  136. A LIHOPer crazy trooootherâ„¢ crapweasel.

  137. Dave, I’m not trying to be unkind or anything, but I suspect you’re suffering from an acute case of gullibility.

  138. “Comment by The Lost Dog on 5/30 @ 6:33 pm # ”

    I always suspected duct tape.

  139. datafuckhead – Between arguing with the voices in your head and channelling Olberdouche, you have gone the rest of the way round the bend.

  140. BBH @ 95: This was “Wives and Lovers,” a Burt Bacharach/Hal David number, circa 1963, for which Jack Jones won a Grammy Award. (B&D screwed with time signatures rather a lot; “Anyone Who Had a Heart,” one of their prime Dionne Warwick vehicles, shifts from 5/4 to 4/4 to 7/8 in fewer bars than you’d think possible.) Jones, a fastidious pop stylist with jazzy undertones, probably beat up Rick Ellensburg for his milk money. (As could Dionne Warwick, likely.)

  141. Hatred may not be a family value, but it is a lefty one.

  142. Paul’s almost feminine lyricism led to a churchly sound… such as “she’s leaving home”, “lucy in the sky w/ diamonds”,

    Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds was both written (lyrically speaking) and sung by John Lennon.

  143. #114: Ohhhhh yeah baby. My mom and aunt took a vacation in Hawaii that was mainly for the purpose of going a concert. To this day that cracks my shit up. My aunt was also hugely into Englebert Humperdink. Or Humperbutt Ingledick…whatever his name is.

  144. Hey everybody. Looong time no post.

    Karl or others, ever heard Take Me I’m Yours, an early (circa ’78) single by Squeeze? Great example of an early drum machine IMHO.

  145. B&D screwed with time signatures rather a lot;

    I still haven’t figured out Promises, Promises. it sounds so easy and then I look at the music and go WTH??? and I sang Barber’s Hermit Songs on my senior recital, the guy didn’t bother with time signatures it was just whatever he decided should go in that measure.

  146. Multi-tasking while up early to follow the last mountain stage of the Giro d’Italia, I find that my comment on the original post lands strangely within a conversation of music and timing, or micro-timing of the beat that makes it so appealing. More than drums can time the music. As such, I submit a song that not only proves this as well as making Karl’s point about a quasi-reggae beat, but brings back in the lunacy of self-absorbed pseudo journalists such as Glenn Greenwald.

    Joe Jackson’s Sunday Papers.

  147. And as far as micro-timing pushing the tempo, giving the sense that the time signature is changing from 4/4 to 9/8 to 19/16 to 39/32…

    Got The Time, performed by Anthrax

    Punk, some “new wave”, then speed rock (e.g. early Metallica) use this well.

  148. “Last year, Gary Kamiya wrote an essay titled, “Life After Bush,” which begins: “Hating George W. Bush sometimes feels like a full-time job.”

    For many Liberals IT IS a full time job and I believe they receive about $17 hr. these days. (There were many ads on Craigs list advertising – $$$ for hating Bush.)

  149. I hate boiled okra and baked possum.

  150. Pingback: Now we see the violence inherent in the system! » Pursuing Holiness

  151. How dare you people disrespect the great Greenwald. I am sure you are all just jealous of all his NY Times best selling books. Lets not forget that Russ Feingold read from his blog. None of you are even worthy of licking my boots…. I mean his boots.

  152. Yes, that Greenwald fellow is handsome and urbane. And always correct, even when he disagrees with himself. And don’t you forget it.

  153. Everybody I know without exception is a Bush hater. Nearly everybody I meet is a Bush hater. Every conversation I have with the slightest political trace to it is exactly one degree separation from a straight up full on Bush hating screed. It is simply not possible to have a discussion of any political sort but especially one with the name Bush in it without a disparaging comment attached to it, often multiple disparaging comments force fitted into a single sentence as if the mind had been practicing cramming adjectives to see how many can be strung together without losing coherency.

    An example might be useful; last night I bought a 12-pack of Newcastle. I mentioned in passing to the clerk, who I don’t know, “I’m celebrating. Bush kindly put an undeserved unearned $300.00 into one of my accounts.” He said, “Good for you. It’s the only thing the guy’s done right!” Now, there’s a remark ripe for contradiction but I bit down hard on my tongue. Wouldn’t do to alienate a neighborhood clerk unnecessarily.

    Another friend told he despised Bush on sight. He told me, “You know how you take one look at a person, even through the TV, and know in your heart you hate his guts?” Um, no I don’t. This came from a person I’ve never heard dislike anybody including the the Ayatollah Khomeini.

    Another friend, my one-time best friend, I’ve stopped talking to altogether. It was the only way to put an end to hearing his incessant Bush bashing. He’d take every opportunity, and make opportunities when they failed to present themselves, to bash Bush, and let the facts be damned. It poisoned every single social gathering. I felt as if no contact was complete until I had been envenomated.

    I used to think the Democrats were the lovelier of the two parties, but after Bush appeared on the scene that has completely reversed. Now I view pretty much all Democrats as haters. It’s a requirement, actually — a Democrat without animus is no Democrat at all. Period. Why, even a visit to the doctor elicits Bush hatred utterly non sequitur. My doctor asked out of the blue, “So what do you think of your president now?” Stunned, I said, “Whenever I’m asked such a question I’ve learned my interlocutor is eager to tell me something, by way of an opening question so let’s just skip what I think and get right to what you have in mind.” An anti Bush diatribe followed. Surely my doctor would understand I would be more interested in getting at a resolution to a serious case of Bell’s palsy and not at all interested in his political hatred, but that wasn’t so. I asked him what he thought of Pelosi. What was his opinion of Reid? “Who?” He wasn’t even familiar with the names of his own party’s leadership! Much less any of their own policies. I could go on, I have hundreds of examples. It all gets so wearisome.

    When all this is over, I’d like to go fishing with Bush. I bet he’s a real hoot.

  154. If John McCain wins in November, then I predict that: Ya ain’t seen nothin’, yet! Similarily, Obama is in for a scorching, if he wins. American politics has gotten very ugly, indeed.

  155. Hey friends, Thank you !