Ptooie.ÂÂ
Bemoaning the party’s problems, Peggy doesn’t provide much in the way of constructive advice:ÂÂ
What happens to the Republicans in 2008 will likely be dictated by what didn’t happen in 2005, and ‘06, and ‘07. The moment when the party could have broken, on principle, with the administration – over the thinking behind and the carrying out of the war, over immigration, spending and the size of government – has passed. What two years ago would have been honorable and wise will now look craven. They’re stuck.
Mr. Bush has squandered the hard-built paternity of 40 years. But so has the party, and so have its leaders. If they had pushed away for serious reasons, they could have separated the party’s fortunes from the president’s. This would have left a painfully broken party, but they wouldn’t be left with a ruined “brand,” as they all say, speaking the language of marketing. And they speak that language because they are marketers, not thinkers. Not serious about policy. Not serious about ideas. And not serious about leadership, only followership.
So, the party ought to have judged things as Peggy has, and it could have avoided disaster. She wrings her hands until it looks like she has Marfan syndrome.
I’m terribly sorry to break this to Peggy, but about the only part of the Republican Party that has operated with any effect during the past 6 years is the Presidency.  What remains of the Republican Congress that was thrown over in 2006 may find it convenient to blame the President–just as Peggy has–but has nobody to blame but itself, for being a pork-ridden, craven, lard-assed bunch of ninnyhammers.
Undoubtedly, history will show that the Bush Administration commited many errors. At the same time, I think it will go down in history as, if not a Golden Era, then a Silver one of shining honesty with respect to how it presented its policies, despite the continuous abuse of partisan hacks and morons. You don’t think so? Well, I hope to live long enough to see the Bush Papers compared with those of his predecessors. These people should be afraid of the vicious backbiting beast that they have unleashed, but they haven’t the sense.
So, pardon my language, but f*ck you, Peggy, and f*ck the Republican Party. For some of us, it never was about the standard, but about what it was supposed to represent. You want us to mourn a party whose leaders have given naught but lip-service to its express principles for all these years? Even Superhero Zombie Reagan couldn’t help you now.
Where do we go from here? This might be a good start.
Comment by TmjUtah on 5/16 @ 6:17 am #
Poltroons, on top of ninnyhammers.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 6:19 am #
The republican party has also only given lipservice to personal liberty, Dan.
How can that be remedied?
The republicans have strayed a longways from their idealogical roots.
Libertarian and republican seem to be mutually exclusive anymore, since the advent of the party of LIFE!.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 6:23 am #
Sorry, but LIFE ought to have the broadest possible application. When you redefine it for the sake of convenience, you enter onto a very dark path. If Republicans had more courage of their convictions, they would have more convictions. Unfortunately, as Democrats have become more overtly socialist, Republicans have become Democrats.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 6:25 am #
Personal liberty depends on how you define personhood. Horton used to be a liberal children’s tale. It’s become a conservative one.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 6:25 am #
I am going to say it again - the yearning for the Return of Reagan indicates a movement that has run out of ideas, or at least proposals. You want to change this? Then an assessment has to be made on where we were in 1980, what has been accomplished since, what needs work, and what new things can be proposed. With that make an honest assessment of what the political and cultural landscape was like in 1980 and today.
To do otherwise is to become just like the Democrats - still yearning for Camelot and the Return of JFK, to become so totally bereft of ideas that you devolve into bickering internal factions whose differences can only be hidden by giving sinecures and proping up the pet programs of internal demagogues.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 6:26 am #
You know, nishi . . . sometimes you seem like a one-issue, abortion voter.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 6:27 am #
Agano. Sakawa.
Comment by Sdferr on 5/16 @ 6:29 am #
Nextright strikes me as a poor choice of name. Right-left, ptaah, wrong from the get go. Is it liberty you (we) want or not? Then be free.
Comment by The Sanity Inspector on 5/16 @ 6:32 am #
In 2004, Bush was re-elected, and the Republicans extended their control over both houses of Congress. That’s the first time the Republicans had achieved that trifecta since the McKinley administration. Yet, in 2006, Hugh Hewitt was frantically urging voters to elect yet more Republicans, because it was seemingly quite impossible to get on with the program otherwise. That’s when I knew that the GOP had slipped back into being simply a brand. What’s good advice for working folks is good for politicians, too: If you’re waiting for something to turn up, try your sleeves first.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 5/16 @ 6:34 am #
Horton used to be a liberal children’s tale. It’s become a conservative one.
Jerry Pournelle once said something like (not an exact quote): “In the 50s and 60s, people called me a n****r-lover for thinking the law should be color-blind. Now they call me a racist for thinking that.”
Comment by The Sanity Inspector on 5/16 @ 6:41 am #
SB&P: I heard it as coming from Thomas Sowell: If you have always believed that everyone should be judged by the same fair standards, you would have been called a radical 80 years ago, a liberal 40 years ago, and a racist today.
Comment by section9 on 5/16 @ 6:51 am #
The Bush Administration may have had plenty of ideas, but it was one of the more politically tone-deaf Administrations in modern times. Anyone with a passing knowledge of what went on during Hurricane Katrina would understand that. Bush lost his mojo because he was perceived as not to care. This was fatal. He never recovered. But there were previous errors. All during the first half of 2005, Bush kept pushing Social Security Reform during the middle of a massive jihadist bombing campaign in Iraq. Bush appeared to be ignoring what was going on there. That’s when the disconnect began.
A lot of what Peggy writes about is absolutely true; and the results of a Republican Party that won’t leave poor Mr. Reagan alone is a party that has run out of ideas. Thus, we have a party that loses Special Elections in Republican Districts because it has run out of ideas.
Our saving grace is this: we are capable of reform precisely because Conservatism is the core ideology of the Party, and Conservatism forces one to return to first principles. People stayed home in 2006 because they wouldn’t vote for the Porker Party; they revolted. So the D’s won.
However, at bottom, the D’s stand for nothing except more Pork, more Patronage, more Spending, and more Appeasement. Liberalism isn’t a coherent set of ideas any more. It’s all programs and marketing: the Obama Campaign is a perfect illustration of my assertion.
Republicans won’t win again on a massive scale until they go to the people with coherent ideas that deal with people’s everyday problems and answer them. Until then, the D’s will try to dole out the pork. Eventually, that thing runs out of steam, as Lord Acton’s rule about corruption takes effect.
Comment by Pablo on 5/16 @ 6:58 am #
Truedat. They have been horrible at even defending themselves, let alone at selling their message. You can be absolutely right, but if you don’t verbalize the reasons you’re right or rebut your detractors the detractors wins the PR battle.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 6:58 am #
I defone personal liberty as the liberty of citizens.
Like the constitution does.
Bullshit on this whole argument.
The only part of the presidency that worked was Gulf II.
Bush pandered his brains out to keep the war going and he basically cared fuckall about anything else, except FISA maybe, which is actually part of the WoT.
I personally think Gulf II WAS the right thing, and whats more the history books will show it.
But it is time for us to go, and the fact that GW let the inmates run the asylum while he focused on Irag is partly why the electorate has lost patience with it.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 6:59 am #
define
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 7:02 am #
Because?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 7:03 am #
i am a single issue voter, dan.
my issue is personal liberty.
ima damned jeffersonian and a neo-platonist, dude.
Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of the day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period, and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers (adminstrators) too plainly proves a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing us to slavery.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 7:03 am #
Oh, lots of things have worked, nishi.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 7:04 am #
What are these oppressions, nishi? Please enumerate.
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 7:05 am #
Well, I hope to live long enough to see the Bush Papers compared with those of his predecessors. These people should be afraid of the vicious backbiting beast that they have unleashed, but they haven’t the sense.
Good luck with that. No honest comparison will ever be done, and if it is, the cultural gatekeepers will ensure that it gets the treatment they think it deserves. section9 is kind enough to point out just how easy it is.
Bush lost his mojo because he was perceived as not to care. This was fatal. He never recovered.
I agree, somewhat. He was reelected after Katrina. The important point here is that the perception is laid down by the ones with the means and the power to do so. While this perception does not replace actual reality, it has the same end effect. Bush’s reaction to Katrina did lack the personal feel that the images of Johnson in New Orleans had, and the people interested in nurturing that image of cavalier detachment (Bush hates teh blacks!) ran with it to great effect. Nagen was re-elected, Bush was crucified despite the fact that the responsibility for the people of that city fell more on Nagen’s shoulders than Bush’s.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 7:06 am #
Bush lost his mojo because he was perceived as not to care.
and he didn’t care….he figgered that was states right issue and he was busy with CinC duties.
he only cared after the dems painted him as uncaring.
Comment by datadave on 5/16 @ 7:06 am #
“if not a Golden Era, then a Silver one of shining honesty”
whoa…..I enjoy the jokeyness here but wow…. have a few drinks on me. Being in academia, I’d think you might feel insulated from reality or something….but the above kind of proves it.
Look at the last inflation graph I showed awhiles back and the steepest increase is in the cost of higher education, next health care, then somewhat back, fuel. As the Gate Keepers of who can scramble up into the upper 10 percentile of income, I guess ’til now academia is still a little immune to what’s going on …(the “War on the Middle Class” brought to you by the Country Club Republicans–and title stolen from by Low Dobbs but I was thinking of somewhat more intellectual bite like Kevin Phillips.)
Golden Age, Iron Age…herummmphff. (Peggy looks great! What she do to make herself look better with age?)
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 7:08 am #
Have some more Kool-Aid, Dave. You, too, nishi.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 5/16 @ 7:08 am #
“#Comment by datadave on 5/16 @ 7:06 am # ”
Sounds more like you have a few drinks in you than on you.
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 5/16 @ 7:09 am #
I’m with section9. While excoriating Republicans for throwing aside conservative/libertarian principles like limited government and fiscal responsibility, the party has been hamstrung by the president’s lack of leadership/communication skills and his inability to consistantly articulate a coherent and inspiring message. The key line in Peg’s piece is the following:
It was the worst of both worlds. Bush is good on defense and the war on terror but has been all over the place trying to burnish his legacy as the “compassionate conservative.” Congress decided to go along, maybe buoyed by the massive approval ratings after 9/11, and expanded government into Campaign finance, education, prescription drugs and now the election year boondogle of bailouts.
The current mass of elected republicans, for the most part, have neither issues or deeds to stand on. I believe that, ultimately, the war on terror will be justified, albeit with the aside of slowness in adapting to new insurgent tactics and nation building. That won’t help conservatives now because so many are disillusioned by a rising government presence, a lack of commitment to individual liberty and a sense of the party leadership allowing the “moral high ground” to slip away.
All of this has lead to the sort of thing that Ric Locke has described as something like conservative malaise. Many of us are really concerned that we simply won’t be able to muster the energy to pull the lever for John McCain come November, no matter how many bottle of good Scotch are involved.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 7:09 am #
Hiei. Kirishima.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 7:09 am #
Go make your peace with The Narrative, be it ever so mendacious.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 7:10 am #
Taxpayers have just paid for Leon Kass and the bioluddite council to quote bible verses at us and tell us–
“that a person has a right over his body, a right that allows him to do whatever he wants to do with it.”
anti-abortion legislation like the partialbirthabortion law is also anti-liberty.
Comment by datadave on 5/16 @ 7:10 am #
no offense…that wasn’t a stab at academia…I shall avoid the ad hominems …since my so-called drinking problem and occupation of nail banger isn’t immune either. But what a great day to be working on the lake today!
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 7:10 am #
Truedat. They have been horrible at even defending themselves, let alone at selling their message. You can be absolutely right, but if you don’t verbalize the reasons you’re right or rebut your detractors the detractors wins the PR battle.
Yes, but then again outside of talk radio, Fox News and the editorial board of the WSJ who exactly was not filtering any response from the Bush camp to fit their own agenda?
Comment by datadave on 5/16 @ 7:12 am #
I can’t type fast enough.
must be morning cocktail hour
Comment by donald on 5/16 @ 7:12 am #
All that money and education in this country is still for shit. I blame it on the gays personally, because it’s Friday.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 7:12 am #
mis quote
There is a “mortal danger,” Kass writes, in the notion “that a person has a right over his body, a right that allows him to do whatever he wants to do with it.”
Comment by Lisa on 5/16 @ 7:12 am #
Wow, I say “fuck you” everytime I read PeggyPigs gaseous columns. I never thought I would see the day when Dan Collins would beat me to the punch.
Sweet.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 5/16 @ 7:13 am #
ima damned jeffersonian and a neo-platonist
Odd claim, since your stated positions indicate that you’re actually a Stalinist.
Comment by Ric Locke on 5/16 @ 7:13 am #
Heh.
Folks, I’m old enough to remember Jimmy Carter’s campaign. Several folks have remarked on the similarities.
But I’m sore afraid you really ought to be looking farther back. 1852, for instance.
Regards,
Ric
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 7:13 am #
A “mortal danger”.
I think the mortal danger is in a state that that believes it can define what citizens do with their bodies.
Comment by datadave on 5/16 @ 7:17 am #
talk radio, Fox News and the editorial board of the WSJ
pretty big section of the media right there…. and Dan’s got a job so what’s the problem?
We are still a very Free Country despite the Republicans trying to make the WAR ON TERROR a brand name to reduce freedom and continue unilateral govt.
I still think the Republicans have the upper hand. For the last 40 years even w/o majorities they have set the agenda. A little self pity is just their way of feeling energized and oppressed.
those poor people at NPR are soo nasty and tough!!! â•Âpoof♂♥☺+++
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 7:18 am #
Baracky does not believe in personal liberty. It’s yes we can not yes you can. Duh. He will make you work. You have reparations to reform, bitter clinger.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 5/16 @ 7:18 am #
“#Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 5/16 @ 7:13 am #
ima damned jeffersonian and a neo-platonist
Odd claim, since your stated positions indicate that you’re actually a Stalinist.”
Fascist.
I visualize her sitting around wearing a brown shirt. With a strange armband.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 7:18 am #
Ack. *preform* is what I meant.
Comment by B Moe on 5/16 @ 7:18 am #
I think the mortal danger is allowing amoral, illiterate morons to vote. Kass was one of many intentionally diverse voices on the council, he doesn’t speak for the state.
Comment by JD on 5/16 @ 7:19 am #
nishit holds the position that slaves did not have human rights until the Consitution was changed. And since illegal aliens are not citizens, they have no rights.
and he didn’t care
And you know this, how? Again, with the lies, nishit. It is tiresome.
Comment by JHoward on 5/16 @ 7:20 am #
Did somebody take over nuggiesan’s body?
The great tragedy of contemporary American politics, as if it needs saying, is the false dichotomy of l vs r political tension. The right has become the new left, perhaps (read: perhaps) validating some next-right movement, but assuredly making any more-of-the-same political tensioning, the kind of which is always plenty for the taking and almost assured in anything yet calling itself “right”, is a laughable farce in the making.
Paul lost his trajectory because he was labeled a loon by conventional-cons after self-inflicting various guilts by association. But without a vivid, earnest, sacrificing commitment to sovereignty, non-interventionism, property and personal rights, origionalism, actual conservative monetary policy, and the like, we are indeed hard aground — in that he is the only candidate philosophically conservative. (The 800lb gorilla is that Helicopter Bernake monetary policy. It will bury us and now, finally, appears poised to do exactly that within ten years. In that regard our leaders are either corrupt or simply ignorant.)
Entirely too many of us fail to take 40k foot views of the staggering socialism — and worse — that’s befallen us. I’ve even given up on much of anything at pw but Jeff’s posts because, frankly, it really matters not at all who is elected president when the cancer of politics as usual is our apparent path. And we’ll fight to keep at it, while the place burns to the ground.
It’s been said before: There is no difference. There really is no difference.
Comment by Lisa on 5/16 @ 7:21 am #
â•Âpoof♂♥☺+++
LOL!!!
Comment by JHoward on 5/16 @ 7:21 am #
You’re out of your mind.
Comment by Carin- on 5/16 @ 7:22 am #
A “mortal dangerâ€Â.
I think the mortal danger is in a state that that believes it can define what citizens do with their bodies.
Nishi has drunk long and deep from the pro-choice well.
Comment by Sdferr on 5/16 @ 7:23 am #
Ric Locke, are you pointing to an era when one party meets its demise and another rises? Or something else in particular in 1852?
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 7:24 am #
pretty big section of the media right there…. and Dan’s got a job so what’s the problem?
Yes, dave, it’s big as compared to, say, the annual circulation of the “obscure sports quarterly”, but in comparison to the rest of the actual media in this country, it’s not.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 7:26 am #
But what’s funny is how Peggy thinks she’s onto something. Stupid sighing cow. section9 is much closer to the truth. Democrats haven’t built up their brand. They and their media pals tore down the Republicans’. Katrina showed them that they could - consequence-free propaganda. They’ve run with that ball. Peggy, poor tired bitter cooze that she is, is an appeaser, simple as that. Her estrogen-deprived brain cells can no longer muster any apprehension that while the Republicans may not be a paragon of what she wants to support, the neo-marxist Democrats are not salvation, but Peggy in her international coffees moments knows that their exercise of power will be the final validation of her mooing despair.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 7:28 am #
What an ugly, ugly, craven played out woman she is.
Comment by JHoward on 5/16 @ 7:28 am #
I think the mortal danger is a state that believes it can define what citizens do with their lives…because they demand it do precisely that and therefore trust it to become a partner in virtually every one of their major life concerns, including property, medicine, education, moral law and social norms, scores and scores of conveniences and “services”, virtually any special interest-motivated private-sector piece of Orwellian legislation, borderline speech codes, and yes, personal behavior itself.
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 5/16 @ 7:30 am #
Ric:
It’s funny you should mention 1852. I just wrote a nasty letter to my Senator, Arlen Spector (shudder), about his ludicrous belief that the public good would be served by holding hearings on … wait for it … THE PATS VIDEOGATE SCANDAL! I sent the e-mail to a few of my friends along with a note on the new Republican anti-depressant slogan (”Change You Deserve,”) expressed my complete exasperation with all things Republican and ended by threatening to register as a Whig.
Suddenly, that doesn’t seem so flippant.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 7:36 am #
Youre the stalinist SBP if you think the State should be able to tell citizens what they can and can’t do with their personal bodies.
Comment by Pablo on 5/16 @ 7:36 am #
BJ, I think you’ll appreciate Jim Donaldson’s column this morning.
Comment by jdm on 5/16 @ 7:37 am #
But I’m sore afraid you really ought to be looking farther back. 1852, for instance
… but that’s like, ugh, history or something? What relevance does history have for us today?
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 7:38 am #
Hey! GREAT NEWS!!! Abortion is legal! Yay!
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 7:39 am #
dur, B Moes, that was the original design of the council.
But Kass purged all the original dissenters and then put Pellegrino, a puppet catholic in to replace him.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 7:40 am #
Keep trying matoko. The subject is the Republican Party and what Peggy wrote, not your fantasies.
Mogami. Mikuma. Suzuya. Kumano.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 7:41 am #
With this new freedom, women will finally control their own destinies! When they get off their Baracky-mandated work-shifts anyway.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 7:41 am #
I don’t know. I think most American sports fans would be upset if the leagues were as corrupt as our government.
Comment by JHoward on 5/16 @ 7:42 am #
And if you insist it tell you what do do with your medicine, your faith, your protection, your rights, your kid’s minds, your property, your safety, your business, your income, your time, your speech, and your virtual behavior, among others?
You (still) lack meaningful perspective, nuggie. (You previously lost me at quantum physics. Forests and trees and so forth. Nothing’s changed.)
Comment by Pablo on 5/16 @ 7:43 am #
Yakuza. Resistance is futile.
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 5/16 @ 7:43 am #
Pablo: Thanks for that. He has it nailed.
Arlen Spector has lost his mind and become a serial meddler. Some of us remember him inserting himself into the Terrell Owens affair with the Eagles, only to furiously backpeddle when many of his constituents wrote and said, in effect WTF!
Tool.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 7:44 am #
yah, feets, and it is going to stay that way.
peggy is just saying what a lot of pundits are saying.
membah dicentra’s link to a Card essay on Empire?
Comment by Pablo on 5/16 @ 7:45 am #
And we need to make sure they’re not, so we should put someone in charge of that. What’s Jack Abramoff doing these days?
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 7:48 am #
Peggy hasn’t had an original thought since 1986. She is detached, played out, stuck in the wisdom she learned when she was coming up in ‘78. She’s got that not-so-fresh feeling all the time now, and it makes her grumpy.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 7:50 am #
Peggy’s Massengill moment, courtesy of happyfeet.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 7:51 am #
And the lady will have a vinegar and water, straight up.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 7:51 am #
that essay is dated….the Left now has control of both houses of congress, and may get a filibuster proof majority.
from the polls it looks like the repubs will lose the whitehouse too.
Dawkins says memes are competitive.
The Right will have lost nearly all it’s memetic transmission operators, except for nontraditional media.
How does the Right propagate meme complexes in that situ?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 7:53 am #
I don’t have any sympathy for the right, btw.
Survival of the fittest an all that.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 7:53 am #
Peggy is panicking a little too early.
The Slogan “Vote Republican or you will die” is still available .
It worked in 2002 and 2004 .
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 7:54 am #
Arlen Spector has lost his mind and become a serial meddler.
brain surgery will do that to you.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 7:57 am #
hahaha, but it won’t work now Sash.
part of the problem is that Iraq IS WORKING.
part is the-boy-who-cried-wolf syndrome.
even if the wolf is real this time, people are tired of that meme.
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 7:58 am #
No really, it should be great fun for this country to have the Democrats in charge of the “imaginary” war on terror.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 8:00 am #
hey, here is one for dems:
“If your election lasts too long, call a doctor.”
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 8:00 am #
Arlen a lot validates caution about longevity science I think. Disease is his only term limit. Faster, please.
Comment by Carin- on 5/16 @ 8:00 am #
Personally, I can hardly wait until the IRS sends me pre-filled-out tax forms. More power for the IRS and government. What could possibly go wrong?
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 8:01 am #
EG, what is war on terror?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 8:06 am #
And if you insist it tell you what do do with your medicine, your faith, your protection, your rights, your kid’s minds, your property, your safety, your business, your income, your time, your speech, and your virtual behavior, among others?
false, dude. we just want the state to keep religion out of govenment, and you want to force it in.
that is the base dichotomy.
every thing else is up for votes.
you invited the theocons to the party, knowin’ full well that religion and libertarianism are antipathic.
so deal.
Comment by MarkD on 5/16 @ 8:07 am #
The Republicans have this backward. I registered as an “R” because they were the small government, fiscally conservative, strong on defense party.
Now I’m being asked to support an imposter. Compassionate conservative is half lie. Dem lite would be more accurate. Like my rep - Jim Walsh, RINO, clueless, gang-of-14, quitter, NY. We might as well let the real Dem have it, especially since NY will lose a few more representatives when the next census kicks in. Upstate NY is voting with its feet, and I’ll join them as soon as retirement kicks in.
I’ll vote for McCain based on defense and judges, but I’ll be holding my nose while I do it. Money? I’d burn it before I’d give a buck to the big spenders.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 8:09 am #
yah feets, i wrote a dkos diary about age limits for congress people.
ppl went nuts, but i still think it is good idea…..say 74 or 76.
i mean, think about the hubris that is causing McCain to run for pres.
He should have backed someone younger. It is pure narcissism and ego for him to run even.
not in the parties best interest.
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 8:11 am #
EG, what is war on terror?
How about we just avoid the little word games and instead agree on a label that we can live with. What would you prefer to call it?
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 8:12 am #
The Church of Climate Change is a lot more pernicious I think. Al Gore is the new Jesus, and Baracky is his apostle. Glorious be his reign.
Comment by JD on 5/16 @ 8:12 am #
Youre the stalinist SBP if you think the State should be able to tell citizens what they can and can’t do with their personal bodies.
Go sell one of your arms. Go sell and ingest a kilo of coke. Go peddle your body on a street corner.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 8:15 am #
Yes. But McCain’s life expectancy is his most attractive quality. Thank you for your service. Buh-bye. His vp choice is the most important decision he’ll make in this campaign. Not picking Hick gets him the presidency I think.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 8:19 am #
But age limits for people is fundamentally a bioethics discussion. Do brains get stale and all that. Maybe we should have a commission look at the question.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 8:20 am #
What is War on Poverty? Jihad?
Comment by Rob Crawford on 5/16 @ 8:23 am #
She’ll need to make a background check on the buyer. Unless she sells it at one of those gun shows.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 8:25 am #
exactly, Dan.
Meaningless dumb slogans.
EG, let’s say the global fight with terrorists.
How the Iraq war was fitting in that fight, and how the republicans in the last 8 years proved to you that they can conduct operations against terrorist organisation better then democrats?
Btw, did you hear the great news,- the war in Iraq will be over by 2013, and the USA is going to win the world cup in soccer…
Comment by syn on 5/16 @ 8:27 am #
“No really, it should be great fun for this country to have the Democrats in charge of the “imaginary†war on terror.”
That, and the ‘imaginary’ recession/depression we’re always hearing about.
That said; what will return Americans to their sanity will be a High Misery Index; anyone under thirty has absolutely no idea what what this means.
If not for my support of our troops and their successful mission I would have no problem handing the reign of government over to the Democrat Party since they will teach the youngsters the meaning of High Misery Index.
I am close to giving the Democrat Party the entire cake, let them eat it all then watch how the masses rise in rage against the misery the Queenies have delivered.
That, and just wait until the under-thirty crowd has to pay for the enormous Entitlement Generation which is set to retire into happpyland; the youngsters are going to be one fuck-up generation of serfs who will have no choice but the labor their lives away not for themselves or their children but for the benefit of serving some greater Entitlement good.
The youth is screwed yet they’re going to vote Obama anyway.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 5/16 @ 8:28 am #
Oh, God, sashal, STFU.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 5/16 @ 8:28 am #
Yeah, but she still has a right to bare arms.
Comment by Jaded on 5/16 @ 8:28 am #
Peggy Noonan is an out of touch elite snob with no idea of the backbone of conservatism today.
Comment by syn on 5/16 @ 8:30 am #
“The Church of Climate Change is a lot more pernicious I think. Al Gore is the new Jesus, and Baracky is his apostle. Glorious be his reign.”
It is ironic that while the Darwinists went after the IDers, the Climate Changers have all but turned Science into Religion.
Funny that.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 8:32 am #
War on terrorists is more warry than war on poverty.
Comment by geoffb on 5/16 @ 8:36 am #
“But I’m sore afraid you really ought to be looking farther back. 1852, for instance.”
Jackson is not too far from me, July 6th 2010 should be about right. Damn Whigs are doing it again.
Comment by Sdferr on 5/16 @ 8:36 am #
Try thinking of Peggy in a strap-on pounding her husband’s empty eyesocket while yelling “take it all, Ronny! You don’t edit me!”
Comment by syn on 5/16 @ 8:41 am #
“You know, nishi . . . sometimes you seem like a one-issue, abortion voter.”
I wager Nishi cannot define fetus.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 5/16 @ 8:41 am #
So Obama is going to make it a priority to open the market for transplant organs?
Comment by The Sanity Inspector on 5/16 @ 8:43 am #
Ric:
Folks, I’m old enough to remember Jimmy Carter’s campaign. Several folks have remarked on the similarities.
It’s like spending the day at the fair by the magician’s booth. The tricks are only meant to be seen once.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 8:44 am #
but poor people can organize and start insurgency using drugs. Double war.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 8:51 am #
hey , Dan.
More suggestion to rebrand GOP ( you know Bush is BA BS, and good at marketing)compiled form the comments on NR:
National Highway Safety Administration said it best with its buckle-up slogan in the ’80s:
“You could learn a lot from a dummy.”
Other possibilities:
“The Few, The Proud, the GOP.” (USMC)
“We’re number two.” (Avis)
“Reach for a Lucky instead of a Sweet.” (Lucky Strike Cigarettes)
“We Know Money.” (AIG)
“Between love and madness lies obsession.” (Calvin Klein)
“Why Ask Why?” (Budweiser)
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 8:51 am #
Peggy has always had pretty great hair, and I hope my hair is that great when I’m her age.
So is the party of life the party that wants to live forever?
Comment by Ric Locke on 5/16 @ 8:54 am #
#48, #53: Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying.
We have a party in power that spends all its time dithering and messing around with minor crap instead of the main issues. A good part of the reason for that is that there are several contentious issues around, and the party leadership is avoiding them rather than facing them. The party appoints as its Presidential candidate an enormously well-respected military figure who’s getting a little long in the tooth. The other party has a single unified message, and selects a candidate nobody’s ever heard of before the election.
Sound familiar?
I can’t give you details, but I know how this summer and fall is going to go. The Press is going to show us endless depictions of Barack Obama in angel robes and halo, and once in a while mention that McCain is running, too; he says the same things, mostly, and he’s old.
Regards,
Ric
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 8:54 am #
EG, let’s say the global fight with terrorists.
Fine with me. The words may change, but I hope you can agree that the fundamental concepts underlying both are the same.
How the Iraq war was fitting in that fight, and how the republicans in the last 8 years proved to you that they can conduct operations against terrorist organisation better then democrats?
You can make an argument that the Iraq war doesn’t fit in to this larger war, but you will need to address issues like Saddam’s harboring of terrorist organizations, his paying bounties to the families of suicide bombers in Israel, and his tendency to start wars in the region.
Likewise, you can make an argument that the republicans have not fought this war effectively, but you will still have to deal with the democratic leadership acting in ways that clearly hindered or attempted to hinder the attempt to prosecute the war. To my mind, the democrats have been alarmingly unserious about the very real threat that faces us.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 5/16 @ 8:58 am #
“Republicans” and “Democrats” don’t conduct operations. Service people do.
How does Iraq fit into the war on terror?
For those who haven’t been paying attention; The war on terror is not the war on al-Qaeda or the war on the 9/11 planners, its a war on all terrorists of international reach. Saddam Hussein’s support of terrorism, and such international groups, many of them, is sufficient to this simple rule. However, it’s not sufficient to actually commit ment and materiel to.
What changed between September 2001 and March 2003? The big hairy deal was that the terrorists who were escaping from Afghanistan were seeking a palce to reconsolidate and resume operations. They found it in Iraq. (Today we are seeing a reversal of this migration.)
The problem is not sloganeering. The problem is with people who have for so long conflated symbols and substance that they can no longer recognize the difference.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 8:59 am #
I am going to iterate this again:
Pining for the Return of Reagan today is like pining for the Return of Eisenhower then.
1980, Reagan’s election year, is twenty-eight years ago.
1952, Eisenhower’s election year is twenty-eight years ago from 1980.
The world has changed dramatically from 1980 to 2008; just as it changed dramatically from 1952 to 1980. For the love of God, what is to be run on has to be relevant to 2008, not 1980. This is a different time! what has worked, what has been accomplished since then? What has cropped up that needs to be addressed?
If conservatives want to be relevant to voters, want to be relevant to one of the two major parties, then they have to address 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, etc. and stop refighting the battles of 1980!
Failure to do so will leave conservatives as well equipped to win control of any party and convince voters they are right as the French General Staff was equipped to deal with the concept of Blitzkrieg in 1940.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 5/16 @ 9:00 am #
Youre the stalinist SBP if you think the State should be able to tell citizens what they can and can’t do with their personal bodies.
Link to me ever saying that I think “the State should be able to tell citizens what they can and can’t do with their personal bodies.”?
Oh, right: you’re a clumsy liar.
Stalinist.
Fascist.
Poseur.
Fraud.
Liar.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 9:01 am #
democratic leadership acting in ways that clearly hindered or attempted to hinder the attempt to prosecute the war.
Here lies my major disagreement.
I wager that (if get elected) Obama administration will be much more effective in combating terrorists, not other country governments..
Comment by Karl on 5/16 @ 9:04 am #
really?
doubled down on the moron pills today, i see
lulz
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 9:05 am #
I wager that (if get elected) Obama administration will be much more effective in combating terrorists, not other country governments..
These two “groups” are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Would you say that Iran’s support for organizations like Hezbollah constitutes direct support for terrorism? How is Obama going to address this in ways that are different than Bush?
Comment by Civilis on 5/16 @ 9:07 am #
EG, what is war on terror?
Well, “The Low Intensity Conflict Against State Sponsored Nongovernmental Organizations Engaged In Insurgent Warfare Against the United States and It’s Allies” doesn’t roll off the tongue very easily…
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 5/16 @ 9:07 am #
doubled down on the moron pills today
nishi is clueless on the difference between person and “citizen”. She’s just not very good with those “word” thingies, as I’m sure you’ve noticed.
Comment by Mr B on 5/16 @ 9:08 am #
Sashal,
Why do the Dmocrats, according to themselves, have to capitulate on the next war fund bill?
They hold the hammer. Why not use it? Is the war nail too small?
Comment by Ric Locke on 5/16 @ 9:14 am #
Sashal, at the moment I’m looking at the real possibility of having to live in my car, but I’ll take $50 of that action anyway.
What Democrats will do is the medical equivalent of lancing and cleaning the sores while making no attempt to address the underlying infection. There will be a lot of nice spectacular chasedowns — I expect Obama to declare that “we’re gonna get bin Laden!” and send the entire 82nd Airborne (or equivalent) to do that — and a lot of cruise missiles expended against targets that had long since moved on. It will all look great in the papers; meanwhile the organization(s) will rebuild and become stronger than ever.
Regards,
Ric
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 5/16 @ 9:17 am #
How so? Obama has not spent one minute that I can find laying out a comprehensive plan to combat terrorism other than making huffing sounds about “invading Pakistan” and negotiating with nutcases.
In fact, I don’t have any sense of any idea from him that would give me a warm, fuzzy feeling about how he”ll do in a world of asymetrical warfare, other than blowing out of Iraq and abandoning thier people just at the point where things are coming around.
So to sit here and suggest that the Dems will do a better job simply because they won’t invade another country goes against Obama’s own words and reflects no facts in evidence as to any master plan to defeat terrorists.
Comment by Ardsgaine on 5/16 @ 9:17 am #
(Wandering in late.)
I’m terribly sorry to break this to Peggy, but about the only part of the Republican Party that has operated with any effect during the past 6 years is the Presidency. What remains of the Republican Congress that was thrown over in 2006 may find it convenient to blame the President–just as Peggy has–but has nobody to blame but itself, for being a pork-ridden, craven, lard-assed bunch of ninnyhammers.
Spot on, Dan.
Comment by Civilis on 5/16 @ 9:20 am #
The problem for the US with terrorism, at a strategic level, is that it allows other countries to wage war against the US. Baathist Iraq / Iraq / Syria et al. knew that there was no way they can match the US Military in open warfare, but they also know they have no need to. Rather than spend money buying equipment and training troops, they can give some cash to a terrorist leader and let them do the dirty work. End result? For a couple of million dollars for dupes and flying lessons, they inflicted a trillion dollars worth of damage on the US economy, and they were reasonably confident that the US couldn’t do anything back to them about it.
Countries need to learn to take responsibility for their actions. The US is ultimately responsible for the actions of its soldiers. Iran, Venezuela and Syria are still given a free pass for what are ultimately acts of war, and as long as they don’t have to take responsibility, they will continue to do it. We hopefully will not need to militarily attack Iran, but it will only happen if the international community wises up and holds Iran and Syria accountable for their actions (fat chance of that actually happening).
If Obama thinks rewarding Iran for sponsoring terrorism is the right way to go, terrorism will continue to rise as the choice military tactic for countries that can’t fight open wars, regardless of how much effort he puts into fighting the terrorists themselves.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 9:24 am #
EG.
O’K , Hezbollah and the Iranian state. The former is a “organization” that participates in “elections” and has military wing which attack Isarel and Lebanon government, The latter is the established, sovereign government of a territorially contiguous state; that’s the difference we’re talking about the practical one that matters: Iran, Syria, and North Korea have things we want and that they might conceivably agree to give us at a price we might be willing to pay. Hamas, Hezbollah? Not so much. They are not capable of offering us anything we want without ceasing to exist as terrorist entities. So it makes sense to consider negotiating with those who have something we want but not with those who do not have anything we want.
As far as that a state that sponsors terrorism cannot be distinguished from an actual terrorist organization : A terror-sponsoring state might stop supporting terror and continue being a state. A terrorist organization that ceases terrorism ceases to exist. And the United States has in the past persuaded some terror-supporting states to stop supporting terror. Do you think America today is too weak or too stupid to repeat its own past success?
The real world is not kindergarten. If we give a lollipop to little Johnny, we are not obliged also to give lollipops to every other child in the class. If the United States wants to negotiate with Iran but not Syria, or Syria but not Hezbollah, or Iran and Syria but not Cuba, we have the right to do as we please. We need not invent some principle to divide “good” bad guys we’re willing to engage from “bad” bad guys we are not. The only standard that matters is whether engagement with a particular state might serve any actual U.S. national interest. If so, we should talk.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 5/16 @ 9:30 am #
I’ll take that.
I say that if he’s elected he’ll do diddly squat. He hasn’t any clue how big this job he wants so badly really is and it’s going to eat him alive.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 9:32 am #
Civilis
If Obama thinks rewarding Iran for sponsoring terrorism is the right way to go, terrorists themselves.
how and where did Obama proposed a reward to Iran, or appeasement?
Talking to them?(what we already do anyways-Gates, Rice)
Comment by Al Maviva on 5/16 @ 9:32 am #
Noonan quoting Tom Davis about why the Republican Party is hated is about as rich as it gets. Davis is one of the biggest showboating asshole rent seekers on Capitol Hill. Hey Tom, you fuck, why not hold some more steroid hearings? Yeah, that’s what we elected Republicans to do, to determine whether Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds are juiced… fortunately, there’s no war, energy or housing crises going on right now, so we have time for that kind of muckraking…
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 9:32 am #
You’re on RTO.
Stake dinner?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 9:36 am #
ards, my argument is that GW still bears responsibility for letting the inmates run the asylum while he focused on Gulf II, and the post-premeptive strike social engineering program in Iraq. And also for pandering like mad to keep support and fundage for the Iraq project.
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 5/16 @ 9:37 am #
That’s a nice analysis, sashal, but it doesn’t work for Iran because it’s a theocracy thereby being pretty much in sync with the goals and tactics of the terrorist organizations themselves.
As far as Syria goes what do we have that they want? Nothing, really. Because they’ve elected to be a proxy in this little hoo-ha then they deserve the pariah status that they have until it becomes clear that they are either tired of said status, fear said status (see Libya) or actually need something we have. Unfortunatly Russia and China are more than happy to provide them with every opportunity for their own, short term diplomatic/political ends. Perhaps if we become successful in securing the Syrian Border with Iraq then bottled up terrorists will become less convenient for Syria.
N.Korea is a non-starter because their leader is teaspoons loonie.
I know that for some the Jimmah Carter “ideal” of talk to anyone if there’s a chance has a certain academic resonance but in the real world of jihadists and theocracies, appeasement is weakness. Read up on it in the quran.
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 9:38 am #
Talking to them?(what we already do anyways-Gates, Rice)
Obama himself wants to talk to Iran. He isn’t proposing Sec State level discussions.
He wants to do this, he has said specifically, because he doesn’t think meeting directly with POTUS should be seen as a prize. Also, because he does not want the US to be seen holding itself above other countries.
It may not be appeasement, but let’s be clear about what he has advocated. It is shameful to see him hide behind Condi’s skirts on this.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 9:39 am #
Here’s my entry in the new republican slogan contest.
“…..then we’re stupid. And we’ll all die.”
–Priss
hahaha, how bout that for rebranding?
;)
Comment by RTO Trainer on 5/16 @ 9:40 am #
Dinner is fair. You’re on.
It is my fervent hope to not find out who wins. If nothing else you’ve now given me a firm reason to vote for McCain and I can quit worrying about the stupid stuff he says.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 9:43 am #
#129, LOL
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 9:43 am #
#
wager Nishi cannot define fetus.
#
bzzzzzzt! wrong again syn.
it’s a fetus until it’s born…then it’s a baby, AND a citizen, if it’s born here.
hehe
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 9:44 am #
MayBee, hah?
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 9:47 am #
sashal
Thanks for spelling out your thinking on the subject, I don’t entirely disagree with your premises. I think you still have a couple of problems in that Iran can agree to “deal” with you and then still support the terrorist organization Hezbollah. It’s the equivalent of buying into the notion that Sinn Fein is separate from the IRA. It’s a useful ruse for the offending organization.
You also haven’t really addressed how this is in any way different than what Bush has done. It’s a lie to suggest that diplomatic means have not been attempted with states such as Iran. They just tell us to fuck off. Then what?
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 9:47 am #
Will they fete us with a fetus at the banquet, nish?
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 9:49 am #
what, sashal?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 9:49 am #
Unless she sells it at one of those gun shows.
no way! im keepin my guns.
haha, the repubs are better at insuring right to bear arms.
but that seems to be all.
;)
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 9:50 am #
nishi,
Children in the US are not full citizens. They don’t even get the franchise until they turn 18.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 9:51 am #
what banquet dan?
babette’s feast for the GOP?
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 5/16 @ 9:52 am #
Hey, nishi: What about those laws in some states (California being one) that call for 2 counts of murder when a pregnant woman is killed?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 9:54 am #
EG, not full citizens, sure, but anchor babies all the same.
hahaha
you guyz are hilarious today.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 9:54 am #
BJTex.
My friend to talk is not to appease.Did anybody proposed to give Iranians territory of Iraq? Or something like that?
We can talk from the position of strengh.
What JFK said(quote from memory)
“We should not never negotiate from fear, we should not fear to negotiate.”
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 9:55 am #
murder is still murder against an illegal alien or any other noncitizen.
isn’t it?
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 9:56 am #
I’m hilarious everyday. Only not always intentionally.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 9:58 am #
im with sash.
not talkin is so highschool.
nah nah nah nah nah, im not speakin to you until you change.
like the tryrant club even cares.
all they do is use that as propaganda to show their population that the satanic imperialist colonialists are dissing their country.
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 5/16 @ 9:58 am #
sashal: You are ignoring the problem with regards to Iran: There is a passage in the qu’ran hat clearly talks about negotiation with your enemies when they are too strong to buy time for a leter conflict. This is woven closely into Islamic history. Treaties are maid to be broken. the current government in Iran is not worth POTUS direct talks, only low level ones that don’t provide any facade of legitimacy of position.
this is not “fear(ing) to negotiate” but rather an understanding of the mindsets of the particular country.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 5/16 @ 9:58 am #
murder is still murder against an illegal alien or any other noncitizen.
isn’t it?
Not according to what you said earlier.
You can’t even keep your own illiterate bullshit straight from one post to the next, can you?
Comment by Karl on 5/16 @ 10:00 am #
NISHI, CARE TO RESPOND?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 10:01 am #
pardon, that the WHITE satanic imperialist colonialists are dissing their country.
just by talkin to the tyrants club, Obama can delete two anti-American memes.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 10:02 am #
EG, exactly.
Bush administration had and are having talks with Iran.
So he is just disingenuous talking about appeasement.
BTW, good job they did appeasing N.Korea, proliferator of WMDs. I guess, negotiations may help even with moronic clownish dictators.
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 5/16 @ 10:02 am #
Nice try but you said the fetus is not a person, a life or a citizen as long as the umbilical cord is still attached. What is the difference by law from a late term abortion and an 8 months pregnant woman who is murdered and then her murderer is charged with 2 counts of homicide?
You’ll notice I have not stated a position here so don’t do your usual tap dancing “xtian theocon” routine. Just answer the question.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 10:03 am #
what Karl?
i agree.
the 5th rawks.
and your point is?
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 5/16 @ 10:05 am #
pardon, that the WHITE
Why should we care what racists think?
I guess some racists are more equal than others, eh?
Comment by Squid on 5/16 @ 10:05 am #
It’s only appropriate that the nishbot would defend the merits of endless debate with a rival who has never and will never negotiate in good faith.
Sad that we’ve taken the bait, though.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 10:05 am #
BJTex, i agree to the noncitizen part only.
personhood, undefined.
independent life? no, but life surely.
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 10:06 am #
pardon, that the WHITE satanic imperialist colonialists are dissing their country.
just by talkin to the tyrants club, Obama can delete two anti-American memes.
Seeing as that these memes are founded on bullshit in any case, what makes you think that they will be deleted, and, even if they are deleted what makes you think they wouldn’t be replaced with equally pernicious smears?
Because I haven’t said it in this thread, or on this site, I’m tempted to bail on the GOP in the same way I bailed on the Donks. Both have simply moved themselves to places I am unwilling to go.
Comment by Karl on 5/16 @ 10:07 am #
NISHI, POP QUIZ: WHICH OF THE FOLLOWING WORDS IS NOT FOUND IN THE FIFTH AMENDMENT?
(A) PERSON
(B) LIBERTY
(C) CITIZEN
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 10:08 am #
BTW, good job they did appeasing N.Korea, proliferator of WMDs. I guess, negotiations may help even with moronic clownish dictators.
Yes, our positions regarding the loonwaffle in N Korea has gone from idiotic trust and appeasement to, well, idiotic trust and appeasement. Yah US! The 2 parties ended up being the same on this one.
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 5/16 @ 10:09 am #
Then what’s the difference? How can one be murder and the other a “procedure” defined by personal liberty?
Please explain, transhumanist.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 10:10 am #
Why should we care what racists think?
oh….i dunno…maybe because teh brown/black/yellow ppl make up 95% of the worlds population, and the tyrants club gets a lot of play out of persistant resentment for western colonialism?
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 10:10 am #
sashal
Do you believe a realistic threat of applied physical force is a useful tool in foreign relations?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 10:12 am #
BJTex, the murderer also killed the life support system, the autonomous citizen.
rights over your own body should come first, autonomy trumps religious ethos.
Comment by Karl on 5/16 @ 10:17 am #
NISHI IS AVOIDING THE POP QUIZ.
Comment by Neo on 5/16 @ 10:23 am #
Is Larry speaking with “fork-ed tougue” ?
Will no one rid me of this turbulent church?
Comment by Karl on 5/16 @ 10:25 am #
LOOKEE!!! HI-IQ VOTER NISHI IS NOT ANSWERING A SIMPLE QUESTION.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 10:27 am #
Back from lunch.
Satsuki. Uzuki, Yayoi. Yuzuki?
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 10:29 am #
I’m so excited about lunch. It’s not fair they make us wait so long on the west coast.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 5/16 @ 10:30 am #
because teh brown/black/yellow ppl make up 95% of the worlds population
So?
Oh, right: we can’t expect brown/black/yellow “ppl” to be civilized and non-racist, can we?
Racist.
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 10:31 am #
It’s also not fair that we have to wake up so early on the east coast.
Comment by Palooza on 5/16 @ 10:32 am #
Bottomline: that some GOPers actually believe that Bush’s presidency will be viewed as a “Golden Age” demonstrates just how deep in denial the GOP is. I personally love seeing these dead-enders like Dan clinging the remaining remnants of their fantasy — it amuses me to no end. I just hope the dead-enders continue to drive and have a major influence over the GOP… that will lead to years if not decades of progressive rule in this country.
So keep the megaphone turned up to max volume; crucify all those GOPers that deviate from the party line; pretend that the Iraq war is an unmitigated success… its working really well (for me at least).
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 10:32 am #
because teh brown/black/yellow ppl make up 95% of the worlds population
We’re an endangered minority. Like polar bears.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 10:32 am #
brown/black/yellow/white ppl make up 100% of the worlds population… you have to know this for real if you want to make a pie chart.
Comment by alppuccino on 5/16 @ 10:33 am #
You’re on RTO.
Stake dinner
Bring a chisel, RTO. Also cook those stakes on low and keep them away from the flame.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 10:34 am #
Palooza, you treat your party affiliation like most people treat their sports teams. Only your approach is less intellectual, you festering sore on the cock of inanity.
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 10:35 am #
Bush administration had and are having talks with Iran.
So he is just disingenuous talking about appeasement.
BTW, good job they did appeasing N.Korea, proliferator of WMDs. I guess, negotiations may help even with moronic clownish dictators.
Having talks with Iran does not equal appeasement, sashal.
You will note that Bush did not point the finger at anyone, and did not state that diplomatic talks with Iran is appeasement.
The problem with Obama is that he is trying to make it sound as if talking at all to Iran is appeasement, and the Democrats are defending him by saying people in the Bush administration have talked to Iran.
In reality, what Obama has said he will do (and what he has been criticized for) is meet “unconditionally and without precondition” at the Presidential level. That is a huge change and a bad one.
Obama is trying to change that nature of what he has been accused of because he is trying to get people not to notice what he has actually said he’ll do.
Comment by Karl on 5/16 @ 10:35 am #
WHERE DID GAMER GRRL GO? SEEMS LIKE HI-IQ VOTER NISHI IS NOT ANSWERING A SIMPLE QUESTION.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 10:38 am #
Baracky thinks of it more as interfaith dialogue I think than as diplomacy. You have your beliefs I have my beliefs we have to learn how to respect each other’s beliefs blah blah blah. For real why bother actually meeting when the script is already written I think.
Comment by alppuccino on 5/16 @ 10:39 am #
that will lead to years if not decades of progressive rule in this country.
I’ll be in the last 300 that love George W Bush. And Palooza yearns to be ruled. Balls are for men son, turn yours in. If you’re a chick - as you were.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 10:39 am #
EG,# 160, yes I do it is a tool, useful or not-not always, sometimes if one is bluffing one can be called on that, you know
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 10:41 am #
I heart George Bush forever and ever.
Comment by alppuccino on 5/16 @ 10:42 am #
There’s 298 spots left.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 10:42 am #
You’re ok in my book, Mr. Bush. Thank you for all you’ve done. I know you’ve had to put up with a lot.
Comment by Karl on 5/16 @ 10:42 am #
WHERE’S THE GRIEFER?
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 5/16 @ 10:43 am #
brown/black/yellow ppl make up 95% of the worlds population
I probably don’t have to point this out, but nishi’s innumeracy is obvious here.
North America and Europe (both majority white) have a combined population of 1.2 billion.
The world’s population is about 6.6 billion.
“95%”? I don’t think so.
Comment by alppuccino on 5/16 @ 10:45 am #
WHERE’S THE GRIEFER?
Maybe she’s on break from running those intelligent design search engine algore rhythms. Probably in the lunch room savoring a grilled fetus sandwich.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 10:46 am #
GWB has my respect. He’s gone through all of this and remains visibly sane and humble. And that’s an achievemnet right there.
Comment by Palooza on 5/16 @ 10:46 am #
Oh Dan… looks like I struck a nerve… I guess you will NOT be one of the rightwingers faux attacking Biden for his use of foul language.
Keep it up Danny Boy, and know how grateful the progressive cause is every time you feel impelled to make a penis reference in the midst of a political debate….
P.S. How’s that loss of a Congressional seat in Mississippi treating you…?
P.S. Can I recommend a theme song for you, Beck’s “The Golden Age”: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/beck/the+golden+age_20015369.html
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 10:47 am #
#178 Yes, a bluff can be called. Then again, saying “stop or I shall say stop again” isn’t as effective as saying “stop or I will make you”.
Pingback by Media Mythbusters Blog » Blog Archive » Media Bias Roundup - 05/16/08 on 5/16 @ 10:47 am #
[...] Protein Wisdom - Peggy’s Pathetic Pontificating Pundit Pity Party [Dan Collins] [...]
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 10:47 am #
WHERE’S THE GRIEFER?
Maybe she’s looking up those words I keep placing in the comments.
Comment by alppuccino on 5/16 @ 10:47 am #
chick it is.
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 10:48 am #
I’ll be in the last 300 that love George W Bush
How are your abs?
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 10:49 am #
It’s nice when the Democrats think they are doing well.
Comment by Karl on 5/16 @ 10:49 am #
NISHI IS POSTING IN ANOTHER THREAD. SHE CAN’T ANSWER A SIMPLE QUESTION. BECAUSE OF THE HIGH-IQ.
Comment by Palooza on 5/16 @ 10:49 am #
“I heart George Bush forever and ever.”
Wow. I thought this was a political blog, not Tiger Beat Magazine.
I bet you wish Bush was your BFF, right happyfeet?
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 10:50 am #
Palooza, how can I make you understand that I don’t give a rip about the Republican Party? Go, Dems, Go!
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 10:51 am #
Oh, no. Palooza would never admire someone so clearly . . . unpopular. That’s for losers.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 10:51 am #
sry karl, none of the above?
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 10:51 am #
If you could somehow combine Bidens teeth with Hannity’s hair, I think you’d have the makings of real bipartisanship. Or a new ken doll. Either way, I’m sure it would be a success.
Comment by alppuccino on 5/16 @ 10:52 am #
How are your abs?
Well, yesterday I dropped a BBQ potato chip on them and I didn’t even flinch. Mui fuerta.
Comment by Karl on 5/16 @ 10:53 am #
WRONG, YOU DISINGENOUS LYING CRAPWEASEL.
Comment by Karl on 5/16 @ 10:54 am #
COME ON NISSIDIOT, THRALL US WITH YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL LAW ACUMEN. BRING IT.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 5/16 @ 10:56 am #
Negotiation implies a capacity for compromise.
Negotiation with Iran would involve two particular areas of concern to us; their persuit of nuclear arms and their meddling in Iraq. (I’m not a diplomat, so don’t quibble with my choice of phrasing.)
So two things we want from Iran are to quit killing/facilitaing killing Coalition troops and Iraqis and to quit trying to build a bomb.
Then things that Iran wants from the US are….
….
….
*
So what’s the compromise here? Quit meddling in Iraq and we’ll let you have a bomb, or quit working on a nuke and you can do as you please in Iraq?
Yeah. Those are acceptable, right?
Comment by alppuccino on 5/16 @ 10:56 am #
Wow. I thought this was a political blog, not Tiger Beat Magazine.
You read Tiger Beat? You really are a sad and lonely woman, aren’t you Palooza. High school teacher, right?
Comment by MlR on 5/16 @ 10:57 am #
Bush’s problem isn’t that he doesn’t care, it’s that he cares like a liberal-democrat. ‘Care’ is measured in the amount of other people’s money that is spent. He isn’t and has never been a conservative, except to the extent he mouths the platitudes of a social conservative on issues where he has little power anyway. In short, he’s governed like a democrat, and in the process, torn the base in rhetorical and ideological circles.
That’s not to say the rest of the national-level Republican politicians are blameless, the majority of them are corrupt and opportunistic politicians as well.
And the Democrats are more of the same, except even more irresponsible and power-hungry.
Comment by Karl on 5/16 @ 10:57 am #
LET’S ALL NOTE FOR THE RECORD THAT NISHI CANNOT HONESTLY ANSWER A SIMPLE QUESTION, BECAUSE TO DO SO WOULD BE TO ADMIT THAT SHE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WTF SHE’S TALKING ABOUT.
I, FOR ONE, AM BOOKMARKING THE THREAD TO LINK EVERY TIME I SEE HER TRYING TO LECTURE OTHERS ON THIS TOPIC.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 10:58 am #
What do you do for Sirius, Palooza?
Comment by RTO Trainer on 5/16 @ 10:58 am #
297
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 10:59 am #
WE ARE BUSHA!
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 11:00 am #
Bush is my BFF, goofball. No for real I used to live down the street from him when I lived in Clarksville and I would wave at him sometimes when I was walking by and he was getting in his car and once he waved back. That’s how close we are. Also I’ve never been back to Chuy’s after that Chuy’s guy was such a dick to Jenna.
Comment by JD on 5/16 @ 11:02 am #
Palooza - Try some original material.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 11:04 am #
And I never will go back even for fish tacos.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 11:05 am #
Kirby Lane and Hula Hut have good fish tacos too.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 11:06 am #
And Baby A’s has way way way better margarita’s than stupid marxist Chuy’s. My favorite is cantaloupe.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 11:06 am #
Ok yeah I think for real I’m eager for lunch.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 11:08 am #
RTO, 202.
Very good my friend.
I am not diplomat either. But how about stop with nuclear program and the developed world will help you with your energy needs, something like that…
I bet, that is the main cornerstone for Iran, their energy needs
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 11:08 am #
i don’t get the question Karl.
don’t citizens have implicit rights?
Comment by Palooza on 5/16 @ 11:12 am #
Siriusly Dan, can’t take a little good humored jabbing…
So what do I do for Sirius? What can one do for the brightest star in the sky? Unlike George Bush I am not God.
Comment by Karl on 5/16 @ 11:14 am #
FOR SOMEONE WHO BRAGS ON HER IQ, YOU ARE THICK AS A BRICK. LET ME BREAK IT DOWN FOR YOU:
You wrote:
I quoted the 5th Amendment:
YOUR PREMISE IS WRONG. DEAL WITH IT, NITWIT.
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 11:15 am #
I am not diplomat either. But how about stop with nuclear program and the developed world will help you with your energy needs, something like that…
The Europeans tried exactly that. Want to guess the Iranian response?
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 11:19 am #
You think Bush thinks he’s God? And you’re going to vote for Obama?
Comment by RTO Trainer on 5/16 @ 11:21 am #
Sure, Sashal, but the last time the West was involved with Irans energy needs tehy nationalized all the western property. So who you going to get to go in there to help? BP, Duth Shell, Texaco and Exxon have all been burned by them. Even the Russians, who weren’t robbed, can see the pattern.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/16 @ 11:23 am #
oh, ok Karl.
it is not explicit in the constitution,.
sowwy. ;)
Comment by Palooza on 5/16 @ 11:24 am #
Dan, I clearly don’t think Bush is God. Take a look in the mirror Mr. Golden Age. And no, neither do I think Obama is God. I guess it is difficult for you to grasp that not everybody treats their political leaders like they are related to Jesus Christ.
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 11:25 am #
But how about stop with nuclear program and the developed world will help you with your energy needs, something like that…
I bet, that is the main cornerstone for Iran, their energy needs
Hasn’t that been offered?
I believe it has.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 11:25 am #
No, I think it’s difficult for you to understand how Messianic the left is, Palooza.
Comment by Karl on 5/16 @ 11:29 am #
NISHI,
NOT ONLY IS IT NOT EXPLICIT IN THE CONSTITUTION, IT IS NOT IMPLICIT. NOR IS IT THE LAW, ACCORDING TO THE SUPREME COURT PRECEDENTS.
TELL ME, OH HI-IQ VOTER, IF YOUR PREMISE IS WRONG, WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR ARGUMENT? TELL ME, OH TECHIE ONE, THE MEANING OF THE PHRASE, “GARBAGE IN GARBAGE OUT.”
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 11:29 am #
there are offers and offers, maybee.
We do not know what kind was there, it is quite possible that only a few details can be adjusted and settlement achieved, who knows.
That’s why diplomats are paid good money.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 11:33 am #
They are tough partner, RTO, I give you that.
But they, as a country are not irrational(even Ahmed is not that stupid, when he is not talking about Israel)
There must be something , which would let them to concede …
After all Reagan was able to talk to the Empire of Evil.
Comment by Palooza on 5/16 @ 11:34 am #
Dan, I am not sure you are one to be judging that considering your zeal for Bush. Sorry, its clear you are not objective on that point. Nonetheless, I am not sure who this “The Left” person is, but I will take your word that he/she is very “Messianic.” The Left in the political sense is very diverse and oftentimes contradictory and not marching in lock-step (that is what we are famous for in fact), so broad generalizations typically do not work.
P.S. Speaking of Messianic, can we agree that the rightwing religious types are literally so.
Comment by Karl on 5/16 @ 11:34 am #
BTW, I AM STRESSING THE HI-IQ TODAY BECAUSE WHEN I WROTE ABOUT LOW-INORMATION VOTERS THE OTHER DAY, NISHI MOCKINGLY ASKED WHETHER I MEANT LOW-IQ VOTERS. IT IS POSSIBLE TO HAVE A HIGH IQ AND STILL NOT HAVE CORRECT INFORMATION, AS TODAY’S DISPLAY OF NISHIS’S GINORMOUS IGNORANCE DEMONSTRATES. PERHAPS NISHI MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER THAT THERE ARE THINGS WHICH SHE DOES NOT FULLY GRASP, INSTEAD OF CONSTANTLY CONDESCENDING TO THE REST OF THE COMMENTERS AT THIS SITE.
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 11:37 am #
there are offers and offers, maybee.
We do not know what kind was there, it is quite possible that only a few details can be adjusted and settlement achieved, who knows.
That’s why diplomats are paid good money.
Here’s the thing, Sashal.
Obama has said he, personally will meet with Ahmedinejad. Without preconditions. The criticisms of him have nothing to do with diplomats hashing and rehashing offers. The criticism of him are that he wants to go to Iran, offer something that may or may not be accepted, and then be left with nowhere to go.
Do you send in an assistant secretary of state after the POTUS has failed in negotiations?
Comment by Karl on 5/16 @ 11:38 am #
That got a lot easier once they realized they could not win the Cold War against Reagan, who was waging economic war, proxy war and tech war against them.
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 11:38 am #
You go, Karl.
Comment by Education Guy on 5/16 @ 11:38 am #
The Left in the political sense is very diverse and oftentimes contradictory and not marching in lock-step (that is what we are famous for in fact), so broad generalizations typically do not work.
Diverse in the sense that people that look and act differently are forced to agree on issues in which consensus has been established.
Comment by B Moe on 5/16 @ 11:43 am #
She won’t answer my question here, either Karl,
http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=12177#comment-412366
If the Constitution is amended to declare citizenship is conferred at conception, will you agree that abortion is wrong, nishi?
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 11:43 am #
231,MayBee.
Most people did not understand that quite literally as you did.
Nobody rushes to the Starbucks in Teheran to meet Ahmed.
Of course there will be preliminary arrangements( if this will come to it) secretary of state or some other diplomats first.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 11:44 am #
Unryu. Amagi. Aso. Ikoma.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 11:47 am #
when was it Karl, refresh my memory, 1987?
At that time soviets were definitely under a huge strain + Afghanistan war.(And do not think that Iran does not feel the pressure, which we should to continue to apply)
But how about Nixon and Brezhnev meetings and negotiations.
I bet at that time Politburo were thinking they are capable to defeat anybody..
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 11:48 am #
Most people did not understand that quite literally as you did.
Bull.
He said without precondition. He said meeting with POTUS should not be seen as a prize, and that the US should not look as though it holds itself above other countries.
Yes, of course there has to be planning, which he has since acknowledged. Now he is trying to move the line even further, by sending Dr Susan Rice out to say he never really said without precondition.
You are letting him off the hook, my man, because the truth is he didn’t know what he was talking about when he said it and put it on his website. The funny thing is, many on the left actually applaud his original position.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 11:50 am #
Look, guys, whatever decision will be applied towards Iran by possible Obama administration-that will not be appeasement.
Seems to me that this is our main argument today.
To talk and negotiate does not mean to appease.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 11:52 am #
well, maybee, you answered it yourself in 239.
His original answer was not very diplomatic or typical politician’s
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 11:54 am #
To talk and negotiate does not mean to appease.
Who said it did?
Obama is using what Bush said about appeasers to make the point that he does not think speaking with our enemies is appeasement. That’s true.
What Obama does not want to discuss is what he’s actually said his policy toward Iran will be.
You don’t want to discuss it either, you simply say he didn’t mean it literally.
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 11:56 am #
well, maybee, you answered it yourself in 239.
what?
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 5/16 @ 11:58 am #
First of all, that was a legal question, not a religious one, so nice try in attempting to go back to your “xtian/theocon” screed.
Now please tell me what are the legal statutes that establish a different form of life re: fetus that allow it to have “human life” classification in the case of the mother’s murder but reclassify it as some other form of life when a mother elects to have a late term abortion of a viable fetus. Is this “reclassified” form of life dependant upon the umbilical cord? Is it your contention that the life is legally “lost” when the mother is killed but trumped by the mother’s “life giving” cord when a late term abortion is involved? Woudln’t a new born baby also need it’s mother’s care regardless of the cord and do we not, as a society based upon law, require the mother to care for her baby?
Remember: If you mention the word religion, you are automatically disqualified. I’m interested in the legal statutes that provide the basis for your contention as outlined above. I’d ask you to quote constitutional principles but Karl has made it pretty clear that your grasp of said document is largely delusional or ignorant.
Take you time, Hi-IQ grrrrl.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 11:59 am #
in 239 you answered it yourself, and I pointed to our agreement there.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 12:03 pm #
hey, BJTex, RTO and me, we have a bet. Steak dinner.
If I lose you are invited .
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 12:03 pm #
None of us religious is looking for a political messiah.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 5/16 @ 12:05 pm #
Sorry, I’m not willing to bet on that.
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 12:07 pm #
in 239 you answered it yourself, and I pointed to our agreement there.
Do we really agree, sashal?
You think Obama didn’t mean it.
I think he meant it and didn’t know what he was talking about, so now he’s trying to cover it up.
He wants to be president, sashal, and he is unable to clearly define his own foreign policy. When he tries, what he puts out is awful.
So now he is distracting everyone.
Do we agree?
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 5/16 @ 12:13 pm #
My concern, sashal, is that Obama, with his rather idealistic look at international diplomacy and the Carterish school reflection of the mindsets of his foreign policy advisors, will be sucked into the sort of negotiations that, ultimately, produce no concrete results, allowing the likes of Syria, Iran et al play him while continuing to make mischief and strenthen their available proxies.
Your analogy with the USSR does not hold water because of the Theocratic nature of Iran and the regional isolationism and nationalism of Syria. Iran will cut off its nose to spite its face if they feel an important enough religious imperative. Neither Syria or Iran need anythign from the US and are only concerned about invasion as a fear factor. They are far less pragmatic than the Soviets were in the 70’s and 80’s.
Comment by Patrick Chester on 5/16 @ 12:16 pm #
RTO Wrote:
It’s not that they haven’t been paying attention it’s more like willful ignorance and hoping that repeating the same claim over and over will trick people into believing the War on Terror is solely against Al Qaeda et al.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 5/16 @ 12:16 pm #
Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, Hiryu, Shokaku, Zuikaku.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 12:17 pm #
O’K, BJTex.
We will see, if you will be correct on that issue I will be more then willing to concede that point on Iran and Syria
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 12:19 pm #
Obama:”I will meet with them without preconditions but with preparation.”
That’s what he just said as I typed it.
So very clear.
If things don’t work: “We will continue to ratchet sanctions and ah, isolation.”
Q:what would change?
A:I would engage in direct talks….tough but engaged talks.
Nobody has asked him yet about FDR negotiating with our enemies.
Comment by SGT Ted on 5/16 @ 12:19 pm #
The thing is, Iran isn’t building nukes for energy needs. They are building nukes for bombs, so they can be the Big Dog in the region.
Our latest, biggest mistake was NOT bombing the Al Quds HQ and training camps the moment we found out they were sending EFP roadside bombs into Iraq. Ignoring acts of war show weakness.
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 12:20 pm #
And he segues into Iraq.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 5/16 @ 12:22 pm #
Don’t get me wrong. I think there’d be a benefit to a Presidential visit to Tehran.
Presidnet Bush walks off Air Force One and makes a speech that amounts to you got nothing we live the life or Reily, it’s the will of Allah that it is so. (I’m not a speechwriter either.) When the Iranian government decides to work in the interests of their own people and not itself, then Allah will change their fortunes.
Comment by MayBee on 5/16 @ 12:23 pm #
Obama:I’m not even taking these comments personally. But for them to suggest they weren’t talking about me…that’s disingenuous. Who is this “they” he mentioned. Obviously, they didn’t apply to me. The implication was that if you object to George Bush’s policies of non-engagement, you are uh, being soft.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 12:33 pm #
RTO Trainer:
Niitakayama nobore.
Furutaka. Kako.
Comment by sashal on 5/16 @ 12:38 pm #
#257. no disagreement there
Comment by RTO Trainer on 5/16 @ 1:25 pm #
Yah. Mikey I’m just reciting the only Japanese I know–the names of the carriers in the Pearl Harbor strike force.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 5/16 @ 1:26 pm #
Oh, wait–did you just say “Climb Mount Niitaka?”
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 2:34 pm #
This thread seems to be straying from a discussion of just how hard Peggy sucks custodial worker dick I think.
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 5/16 @ 2:37 pm #
hf: I’m sensing a subtle signal as to a slight disassociative dissatisfaction with one Peggy Noonan. Is my radar properly calibrated? :-)
Comment by alppuccino on 5/16 @ 2:39 pm #
Just cuz they’re janitors doesn’t mean they’ll put their johnson in anything.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 3:47 pm #
Peggy is a distillation of everything that’s wrong in the world is all. It’s the incessant sighing mostly.
Comment by Synoia on 5/16 @ 4:30 pm #
“Our saving grace is this: we are capable of reform precisely because Conservatism is the core ideology of the Party, and Conservatism forces one to return to first principles”
Fiscal Conservatism or Social Conservatism?
There’s been damn little Fiscal Conservatism out of the Republicans - fighting a war on credit?
Size of Government - small? I don’t think so.
States Rights? - ho ho ho!
Individual Liberties? Oh FISA where art thou?
Right to Life? Only if you are unborn!
Where are the Conservative Principles? Where? Not on this watch?
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 4:32 pm #
What is it harpy Friday or something? Jeez.
Comment by cranky-d on 5/16 @ 4:34 pm #
It’s loonwaffle Friday. Just like every other Friday. And every other day for that matter.
Comment by Barack Ozawa on 5/16 @ 5:50 pm #
Leg’go my A-Go!
Comment by B Moe on 5/16 @ 6:02 pm #
To talk and negotiate does not mean to appease.
How about taking our Embassy and holding our Diplomatic Corps hostage for over a year with no repercussions?
How about letting them finance terrorist organizations that control Lebanon and harass Israel with no repercussions?
How about letting them develop nuclear weapons in violation of UN treaties with no repercussions?
How about letting them supply weapons, funding and troops to the “insurgency” in Iraq with no repercussions?
Look, guys, whatever decision will be applied towards Iran by possible Obama administration-that will not be appeasement.
In that case, he really would be an agent of fucking change.
Comment by Pablo on 5/16 @ 6:13 pm #
Damn, Karl. You got her to shut the fuck up. Nicely done, sir.
Comment by ahem on 5/16 @ 6:15 pm #
I don’t care what Noonan believes: Bush goes down as one of the best president we’ve ever had. In November, McCain rolls over Obama like a Mack truck.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 6:53 pm #
Exactly. Bush is big like that.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 7:11 pm #
#262: Yep. I’ve been recounting the names of IJN vessels as Matoko speaks. It is about as relevant to any post as her blatherings.
Chitose. Kamikawa.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 7:14 pm #
#270:
Operation Sho-Go is a go.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 7:21 pm #
Furutaka and Kako were heavy cruisers.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 7:25 pm #
they’ve got the bad guys on the run
they never stop ‘till the job gets done
cuz when the world is losin’ all control
One, two, three, four, GO!
Comment by guinsPen on 5/16 @ 7:38 pm #
Sho-Go
onishitakijuroshinji !!!
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 7:40 pm #
#263
Haps - yes it has, but I can say that I have commented on what needs to be done as a political party and a movement stands up, looks about, and says “Now what?”.
Where are we now? How did we get here? What did we want to do, and what have we done? Where should we go now besides saying “Look! - Here’s candy!”? It is not 1980 anymore and Obi-Ron isn’t going to help us. What next should be done beyond holding the line? Where should we go forth?
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 7:45 pm #
See you in Surigao Strait, guinsPen.
And the ghosts will be there, too; and the 14″ guns will be clearing their mouths.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/16 @ 8:02 pm #
PS: No, I do not know what onishitakijuroshinji means.
But I am certain to find out here.
Comment by Seitz on 5/16 @ 8:36 pm #
From comment 20:
I agree, somewhat. He was reelected after Katrina.
For someone who calls himself “Education Guy”, you’re not very educated. Was there a special presidential election in November of 2005? Was Bush on the ballot in the 2006 elections? Katrina made landfall in late August, 2005, about nine months AFTER the 2004 presidential election.
Dipshit.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 8:57 pm #
I remember Katrina. That was a big storm I remember cause Andersen got his shoes all wet and he made a scowly face. I was really worried about him but he pulled himself together and was able to emote really well I thought. That was way before he had to emote for the tsunami. It was kind of like practice.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 8:59 pm #
It was frightening seeing him that scowly. I was afraid he might crumple and cry.
Comment by datadave on 5/16 @ 9:04 pm #
♥ ☻bama! Seeing Bush kowtow to the Saudis yet again begging them to increase oil production in order to save his
Asslegacy. And hearing ☻bama in deep tones telling off the losers Bush & McCain for their tired old ideas….Gives real Americans H☺PE!earlier Edu Guy again expressed the tired canard that the MSM (mainstream media) is against conservatives…ignoring the majority of pundits on said media are indeed conservatives, like Joe Scarebarrow or whatever, and that media’s been under attack by conservatives and they’ve given many conservatives even on Public channels a place to spout their ideas. More than “Liberals”.
Comment by datadave on 5/16 @ 9:11 pm #
damn, Dan. That Paloosa guy might have come out of your creative writing class…or you made him up. Good Job!! Give him an A! ♦☺☻♥♠♠○◘• now if I can master the keypad, I might be creative♂.
ah, have a good weekend. Grad. week, lots of parties but I’ll try to avoid ‘em cept one at oak ledge park. later.
Comment by happyfeet on 5/16 @ 9:13 pm #
That’s not possible, what you said about Edu Guy. Peggy keeps all the tired canards locked in a cupboard with her collector’s edition general foods international coffees tins, datadave person. It’s kinda like the glass menagerie thinger except she’s a really really really bitter and isolated woman. And also there are no glass animals involved.
Comment by Dan Collins on 5/16 @ 9:15 pm #
Have a good weekend, d2d.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 5/16 @ 9:18 pm #
ignoring the majority of pundits on said media are indeed conservatives
Hint: “not a senile, psychotic, communist hippie” and “conservative” are two different things.
Entirely.
Comment by Civilis on 5/17 @ 6:47 am #
If Obama thinks rewarding Iran for sponsoring terrorism is the right way to go, terrorists themselves.
how and where did Obama proposed a reward to Iran, or appeasement?
Talking to them?(what we already do anyways-Gates, Rice)
Rewarding Iran by giving them some say in how things develop in Iraq, by dealing with them diplomatically as anything other that a country that is waging an undeclared war on the US and by letting them develop a nuclear arsenal (which is a threat to the national interests of the US even if Iran has no intention of using them against the US or anyone else). Bush isn’t doing particularly well here, either, but we have our attention divided elsewhere.
Comment by Patrick Chester on 5/17 @ 1:41 pm #
Mikey NTH: About the only Japanese word I’d direct at nishi is:
“BAKA!!!”
Comment by Gray on 5/17 @ 9:41 pm #
Jeezus…. What a Constitutional Nishidiot beatdown! I wouldn’t show my face around a political board again if I woofed shit about my IQ and then completely fuct the 5th Amendment.
Nishi = fail.
Trackback by Untraditional Student Loans on 6/14 @ 12:17 am #
Untraditional Student Loans…
students werent afraid to raise big issues, including concerns about student loans. But …