Given the probability that the general election will pit presumed GOP nominee John McCain against Barack Obama, I have probably been a bit remiss in not focusing more on the generational politics underlying this campaign cycle. I did allude to the generational studies of Strauss and Howe back in February, and there is more discussion in the comments at that last link, which I recalled when reading RTO Trainer’s comparison of McCain to Zachary Taylor in the pw Pub.ÂÂ
I have also noted a 16-year cycle of “change†elections since WWII that may be a related phenomenon. Reading the complaints of Andrew Sullivan’s Gen Y readers, it is slightly amusing that they think the “old farts” don’t get Obama’s appeal to their idealism about politics. In reality, the “old farts” get it, but have seen versions of this movie before, per the 16-year cycle. Indeed, though I have no idea whether The Sanity Inspector is an “old fart,” he can quote dead white males like H. L. Mencken to show just how little politics has changed in the past 100 years.
To make up a bit for this oversight, I recommend a recent post by mw at Donklephant, not because I agree with it entirely, but because it identifies: (a) how Barack Obama has been playing generational politics (even as his positions on entitlements would turn Gen Y into wage slaves for the welfare state); and (b) the rather bipartisan disdain for the Boomers that exists among the post-boomer generations.
The most recent Gallup Panel survey lays bare the generational politics that are at hand in this cycle. When respondents were asked to describe in their own words “what comes to mind†when they think of John McCain, his age and experience are among the top responses. When asked about Barack Obama, respondents tended to think of his freshness and his inexperience. Neither is a Boomer and their ages are thus double-edged swords to the electorate.
Are you anticipating a reprise a the Kos Mentos advertisement? That first one was so special, so fresh, so ghey.
Oh, we d-d-dig what they’re saying, we just won’t get fooled again.
Meet the New Politics? Yes, we can!
It very well may be time for Barack and the next generation to take the reigns of power. But not if he or his supporters expect Boomers to step aside and hand it to him. If he wants the reigns now, he is going to have to rip it out of their hands.
But … Barack is, technically, a boomer.
In reality, the “old farts†get it, but have seen versions of this movie before.
Indeed. Some folks might even remember Eugene McCarthy. Despite that election not falling on your sixteen year cycle, the McCarthy “youth vote” is, IMO, the closest analog of the present-day Obama cult.
What struck me most about Sullivan’s pandering, moronic piece was that the ‘Old Farts’ mantra has nothing at all to do with democracy–it’s merely a leftist ‘People Power’ argument for sweeping aside the status quo (in this case market-based economics and commitment to unpopular military causes) in favor of generational change for its own sake. This reeks of sloganeering, torchlight parades, and instant ‘solidarity’, rather than the dirty business of politics–which has so alienated the Y-Gens, according to Sullivan, that they may never vote again. Or at all. Because it’s not actually about voting; you might lose at the ballot-box. It’s just about getting what you want.
And had McCarthy gotten the nomination that year, he would have lost even bigger than Humphrey did.
(Mainly because 18-year-olds didn’t get the vote until after 1968, but still…)
Promises, promises.
</old fart>
Carin, it depends on who’s scale you use to define the generations. Strauss and Howe start their 13er (Xer) generation couner at 1961, Barack’s birth year.
And I can’t beleive I hadn’t twigged to that point earlier. Barack is (or may be) an Xer. Given the elecotrate’s historical reitcence to step back generationally, moving on to Gen X after only two Boomer administrations would class them with the Lost generation (Truman and Eisenhower) and only slightly better than the Lost’s type match in this cycle, the Silent generation which has abdicated national leadership in favor of the GIs. I’ll note that McCain, a Silent, did not run for President until 2000, the first campaign with no serious GI candidates.
Indeed. Are Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu irrelevant old farts to be disregarded? How about Jimmy Carter? (According to the left, of course.) All are older than Maverick.
karl….
how much will viral video shape the campaign?
A somewhat effective inoculation against viral videos is the viral distinction itself. Possibly this is what nishi is attempting to accomplish, by bringing it up over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
…which of course assumes that she imagines that none of us are aware of such a concept in the first place.
im storyboarding a superman ripoff for Obama vs Mccain right now.
to the tune of kryptonite.
i might use anime.
i really video games, yah know.
;)
nishi: Do you even remember what you’ve previously written?
You are raising perpetually cycling same comments regardless of topic ad nauseum to classical proportions.
While it may amuse you ii is annoying and head pounding to the rest of us, causing you never be taken seriously.
Meet the New Marxist Scare Crow? His name’s Karl!
Yeah, as if doing the He’b’a Marxist hokey-pokey is fresh and new.
Do you know what I’d do if I was you, KK, I’d start analyzing how that empty-headed Marxist in black face forced the Sure Thing’s face down and exposed her ass to the winds of change. Did she raise $10-million 24-hours after PA? No. But as with all her lies, the press just went along with it. Why the silence from the press – and from so-called men of deep political study – when her announced facts never seem to quite add up? The Socratic question of truth, and why nobody cares to be held accountable to it versus superimposed rah-rah dialectic douchebaggery, that’s what I want to understand. That a verifiable Truth coming from the mouth of either Clinton is a dice game of chance, why? Heretofore why have they been allowed to lie with impunity? Watching them bask in the glow of of their unfettered bullshit on the campaign trail leaves me asking myself if I’m hypermnesic, aren’t these the same two clowning bullshit artists who did nothing but yank our cranks in the 90’s? Yet every political blowhard only wants to talk of denounced Reverends and such.
My daily rant complete. Farewell.
Keep up the important work, nishi.
really dig video games.
lulz.
mfft…i haven’t linked the Empire Strikes Barack.
I haven’t seen any effect viral video for McCain.
praps it’s generational.
;)
effective viral video for mccain….is there any?
here’s a suggestion for allahpundit or serr8D…..make viral video of mccain as Ironman.
you can’t see how old he is in the suit.
that is wat i’d do.
lotsa free publicity right now….associate mccain with the ironman character….brand him.
of course…someone may do it for Obama first. ;)
HRC wouldn’t work, but either O or mccain could.
You know, in the old days, when a young man was a strong man, everybody stepped back when a young man walked by. But now days it’s the old man that’s got all the money, and a young man ain’t got nothing in the world these days.
Except that Obama’s got lots of money, while McCain is broke, so obviously Obama is the candidate of the old farts with money who have bought themselves a young face to push the same tired ideology that failed them in their youth.
Carin’s right: if the baby boom is through 1964, then Obama is a late boomer. If you don’t remember when TV went to all color, you’re not a boomer.
I’m beginning to have a serious appreciation for the plight of the pearl oyster. Poor bastards.
I sense an oncoming pony quest.
Win John McCain’s Money.
Obama? Obama? Obama?
Um, he’s sick.
Ardsgaine brings the Mose Allsion, by way of Leeds, I presume.
Baby Boom – Births
1945 2,735,456
Start
1946 3,288,672
Peak
1961 4,268,326
End
1964 4,027,490
1965 3,760,358
Total Births ’46-’64 – 74,887,501
The actual record for post war 18 year cohort size was 75,220,040 for the ’52-’70 period. That one held until 2003 with the minimum interim cohort being ’66-’84 – 65,768,095.
It’s very difficult to not count the prog hothouse orchid known as Obama as a Boomer. I think you have to be a prog to make the attempt – willful blindness coupled with inability to perform simple arithmetic being prerequisites for admittance to the sect and all.
Hey, nishi: remember when you were in middle school and you thought the latest boy band was just dreamy?
Same thing with you and Obama.
When you grow up (if you ever do), you’ll look back on this and cringe.
@Sanity,@Carin, @RTO
There is no agreed date for the last year of the Boomer Generation. As RTO says, it depends on who you read. From Wikipedia:
I suppose one could say that Obama is on the cusp, but I think it significant that Obama does not self-identify as a boomer, although one can surmise that this is just a politically expedient affectation.
A lot of Who fans here. Where’s Tommy?
Where’s Tommy?
He can’t hear us.
Doesn’t matter; if you call him, he can’t hear you.
Yet, still … it’s kinda funny to say that O is popular because people are sick of Boomers running things… when he is (according to some) still a Boomer.
Hopey/changey/unity trumps boomer status.
O! (noes!)
Crap
Interesting related discussion here. Including a whole new generational dating theory.
Most of the things I’ve read places the end of the baby boom at 1964; which makes my older brother a Boomer (1962) and me a Generation Xer (1966). Of course, it doesn’t cut quite so neatly. He is obviously closer to me in generational touchstones than he is with our cousin Jane (1948).
So while Sen. Obama can be seen falling within the Boomer category, a lot of his touchstones would be familiar to older members of Generation X.
What I find more interesting than another tired rehash of the Boomers is a look at the generation that preceded them, the one John McCain is in, the one my parents are in – the silent Generation. These are the ones that were born during the Depression, were children during the war, and entered adulthood in the Populuxe era. They experienced a lot that the Greatest Generation did, but at a remove because they were much younger and thus their capacity to understand the events around them wasn’t as developed.
Well- this statement is definitive. True Boomers never, and I meannever, get tired of rehashing and analyzing Boomers. You are out of the club. Pick some other generation.
Doesn’t matter; if you call him, he can’t hear you.
Even if he could it doesn’t matter because he also didn’t see it and won’t say nothin’ to no one
Mikey NTH,
The preceding generation really is a little more interesting. It’s actually the last generation to have endured a period of very high insecurity, both economically and wrt rather existential threats. Part of the Bubba Bubble employment peak was due to a reluctance on the part of that generation to actually retire. The BLS is using that reluctance as a predicate for their forecasts of workforce participation rates for the next ten years. I don’t see Boomers clinging to jobs in that manner and my bet is that we’re in for a period of labor scarcity which is going to have a rather measurable effect upon wages. If I’m correct, we should start seeing the impact in ’10-’12.
Well, I do, and always have, considered myself a Boomer.
I’m four months younger than B’racky. If I’m a Boomer, he’s a Boomer.
Wouldn’t you like to be a Boomer too?™
The feeling of insecurity is a good point, Rick. It really was a hallmark of the Silent Generation and the Greatest Generation – but as you could say, they had a reason to be paranoid.
mw – thank you for letting me make a gracious exit. Heh.
I don’t give a shit about Tommy, Ann Margaret writhing on a hot dog is special.
End
1964 4,027,490
1965 3,760,358
Wait, wait wait… all this time I thought I was part of the “Me Generation.” What happened to that?
No, you were part of the Me Generation. That You Generation thing was just something we told you so you’d quit whining about not having a generation of your own.
It’s looking less and less like the Al Franken decade.
It’s looking less and less like the Al Franken decade.
Not unless he gets a dime stretch in Leavenworth or somepin’.
Comment by The Sanity Inspector on 5/2 @ 9:32 am #
“Carin’s right: if the baby boom is through 1964, then Obama is a late boomer. If you don’t remember when TV went to all color, you’re not a boomer.”
I dunno. I have always hated the tag of “Boomer”, even though I actually am one.
My family never even had a TV until I was four years old, and, for the most part, that was the rule of the day. The only reason we got one was because the only people in the neighborhood who had one would wake up at six in the morning on Saturday, and find my sister and I watching the Lone Ranger in their living room. Way too embarrassing for my parents, I think.
But, back to “Boomers”. It is an appellation that smacks of the proggs desire to “groupify”, and I hate it. I think my generation is one of the luckiest generations ever. To be so pampered and priveleged, and yet grow up with the scent of American history and values forever present in our noses, is something that I doubt will ever happen again, and it is a loss that can’t be quantified.
I try as hard as I can to avoid it, but sometimes I am just completely overwhelmed by nostalgia. The “right thing to do” is usually the most inconvenient thing to do, but when I was young, that was the way most people lived their lives. Now, “the right thing to do” has become an alien (and even repugnant) concept to a very large swath of Americans.
What has happened to America’s values and sense of history in the years following the 60’s is an absolute shame to me. I have been all over the place, as far as ideology goes, and nothing comes close to the sense of community I experienced as a child.
The government built roads and kept an army, but the community took care of it’s own. People were ashamed of being stupid or poor, and were, therefore, always working to better themselves. The “safety net” was your neighbor’s good will and the churches, and very few people had the hair to lie, cheat, or steal. Except for the lunacy of discrimination of blacks, it worked far better than anything that idiots like Obama and the rest of that moronic posse could ever try to engineer. Where is the incentive to do better when “Mommy government” is giving you even a substandard existence, and telling you that those who work and want a better life are greedy pigs, and worthy of your scorn?
Shame was the great motivator. As people, we cannot grow without a sense of shame. It’s just not possible. And here we have a whole group of morons (or should I say Marxists?) with a large bullhorn saying: “Don’t be ashamed of being an asshole. Don’t be ashamed of being dumber than a sack of hammers! Don’t be ashamed of being amoral! WE will take care of you!” What they don’t say is that every fucking cent that comes to you from the government has a string attached, and that string is there to wrap around your life, and choke your liberty to death.
The Patriot Act? Not even close to what these self righteous politicians are trying to do to us EVERY DAY! Or should I say: “ARE doing..?
And now the proggs have TWO candidates espousing this lunacy (and I must not fail to mention that McCain is different only by a small degree).
But this is exactly where we find ourselves. Shame barely exists anymore, especially in the people who are supposedly “our leaders”, and we pay more dearly for it every single day. We are well on our way to becoming France West, or worse. And I’m afraid it’s the latter.
Sometimes I listen to “The Baby Jesus” (Neil Boortz’s name for Hannity), and he has a segment where he talks to “the man on the street”.
They all know who Obama is, but have no idea who Nancy Pelosi, or Harry Reid (or, for that matter, anyone else in the government that is eating their lives) are. It’s pretty frightening.
The idea that freedom has a cost is far gone. Too many people think that our freedom is God given, and that the amazing priveleges that we have are immutable. My son walks away from me if I bring up the subject of “right and wrong”. Ain’t no such thing anymore, apparently. It’s all relative, ya know? Who are we to judge?.I think my head is going to explode one of these days.
When the government decided to get into the “Mommy” business, is when we started on the path to where we are now, which I tend to call “the whiney times”.
The death of shame was the opening of this chute that we are all now helplessly rocketing down.
And coming from a man who has had an almost perfect life of priveleged lunacy and fun, it’s hard to say this, but when I think of what my son is blithely facing in his life in America, sometimes it’s almost too much to bear.
Sorry to be a bummer, but I do feel better after unloading this.
I remember when my house got a color TV. Does that count?
TLD: well said. I’m a late-ish Boomer (’59) but the Baby Boom was a demographic notion co-opted by marketers and politicians who wanted to pretend that the attitudes and opinions of someone born into a particular social stratum in 1946 would match those of someone born in a different social stratum in 1964. Convenient. Insane, but convenient.
Lost Dog,
I’m one of those Boomers who was raised by Silent Generation parents / Greatest Grandparents, and I know what you are saying.
I was at Wal-Mart recently and did some small courtesy, so without telling me, the cashier gave me the Wal-Mart card discount on my gas. I told her she had undercharged me, she explained, and then added, “You’re the first person I’ve done that for who asked if they’d been undercharged.”
All I could think driving away is that my parents taught me to pay what I owed and be honest about it; is that really so dead?
“When the twin concepts of loyalty and duty lose their meaning in a society — Get Out. You may save yourself, but you will not save that society. It is doomed.” Robert Heinlein, “The Notebooks of Lazarus Long”
SDN –
Yup. It appears to me that what we learned growing up is just about done.
I re-read what I wrote and feel kind of smarmy, but I’ve been needing to say that stuff for a long time.
I wouldn’t care so much if I didn’t have a little boy who is being swept along witht the tide, and there’s nothing I can do but try to plant seeds and fervently hope that someday they will grow within him.
Sometimes, it really does seem that we are past the point of rescue.
With that said, I will return to being The Lost Dog of fun and frolic.
Boomers=bullshit. #53 Nasdar’s got it.
Ok, there was a demographic bulge after the “War” and up ’til Vietnam war…so what?
The divisions within that bulge are so severe that it’s only a marketing term for maybe those born during the early 50’s to late fifties who grew up with the civil rights era, Beatles, Dylan, Rolling Stones and subsequently the big arena concert era which led to the “Me Decade”: the Seventies…which maybe was part of the Boomer surge..but really was the opposite of the more militant, and serious, fervent Sixtie’s where the rebellion was notable although relatively harmless…where the few “terrorists” only blew themselves up more than they harmed others.
It seemed that the era turned when the later ‘boomers’ showed up and the wanted beer, pot and little else as they had it already. Most people coming of age in the 70s seemed to just wanta good paying gig (as few were had to be found compared to later years) Those later boomers tended to be more conservative and could see the failures of the hippies (who still couldn’t get jobs if they wanted them) or that civil rights really didn’t help the African Americans as much as anyone hoped…..and crime was more prevalent then too….so many young men w/o much work to do in the 70s. (the transition of the 60s to 70s was like Dave Horowitz idealizing the Black Panthers in Ramparts but learning later to hate the self serving bastards like Eldrege Cleaver, although Horowitz probably loved rapist Cleaver’s turning to the Right in his later days)
jeesh, get a grip, lost dogs. How old is your son? Mine’s fifteen. I’d say the USA has gotten much more conservative imo in the last 40 years so why are you concerned? Other than the usual stuff: car accidents, wars, bad economic times, or nuclear war. (I’d put environmental destruction inc/ climate change fourth or fifth on my list.) Hey, Reagan and the Bushes have saved the USA from Liberals, so what’s the problem?
RTO’s linked article nails it. Boomers: I be it. But those younger were pretty much different even if only 5 years younger. Generation X is probably apt for the next one although I thought they were born a little later than middle 50s.
Good one, RTO.
Indeed. I have as little in common with Bill Clinton — 15 years older than I am — as with someone born in 1976.
Then again, I don’t have a whole lot in common with Barack Obama either. I think I must have been adopted.