April 30, 2008

How the establishment media has smeared black churchgoers [Karl]

Now that Barack Obama has specifically denounced some of the worst of Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s comments, the L.A. Times has deigned to ask black ministers about the controversy:

African American ministers in Los Angeles expressed angst and concern Tuesday that a fresh round of comments by Sen. Barack Obama’s former pastor was hurting the Democratic presidential candidate’s campaign and skewing public understanding of the black church.

***

“This didn’t have anything to do with the black church — it was basically an attack on the individual message he proclaimed, which hurt some individuals,” said the Rev. K.W. Tulloss of Weller Street Missionary Baptist Church in Boyle Heights. “My own members were offended by Rev. Wright’s words. His views have cast a wedge between people, and that’s the exact opposite of the unity Jesus represented.”

***

Kerman Maddox, a member of First AME church in Los Angeles, said that he had listened to hundreds of sermons in black churches nationwide as part of his political and community work, and that Wright’s messages did “not represent mainstream black thought on Sunday morning.”

He said he had never heard pastors curse America or proclaim, as Wright had, that the U.S. government caused AIDS among blacks. He said the common pulpit themes had long been unity, personal responsibility, loving your neighbor and improving your neighborhoods.

But the biggest concern Tuesday among local black religious leaders — and across a wide swath of black Los Angeles — was not about Wright’s words per se but about their impact on Obama’s historic campaign…

While this story confirms that Wright’s Black Liberation Theology is a minority movement, even in urban black churches, it sadly demonstrates that some black leaders did not proactively debunk the suggestion that Wright was representative of “the black church” out of deference to Obama’s prior attempts to make the issue about race instead of religion and theology.

Perhaps worse is the degree to which the establishment media not only avoided soliciting the opinion of other black religious leaders, but also promoted the notion that Wright was expressing views commonly expressed within black churches.  The offenders in this respect already noted here at pw include TIME magazine, as well as the taxpayer-funded PBS’s Bill Moyers and NPR.  The list includes Andrew Sullivan, whose Obama crush has turned him into a human windsock.  HotAir’s Ed Morrissey notes the attempts of the New York Times and the Washington Post to maintain the fiction even now that Wright’s estrangement from reality was not well-known and documented prior to this past weekend.

Those who engage in this level of intellectual dishonesty may serve Obama’s campaign and their own willingness to jump in the tank for him when he proclaimed that he could no more disown Wright than he could disown the entire black community.  But this effort has been — and remains — a libel against the majority of black churchgoers who do not share Wright’s warped view of the world or his warped view of Christianity.  Moreover, by suggesting to non-black America that Wright was representative of historically black churches, such media outlets set back the cause of race relations to the detriment of all Americans.

Update:  In the comments, a “Lionel Hutz” (a pseudonym, I’m guessing) notes that Bill Moyers Journal is not funded by PBS or CPB.  Thus, taxpayers are only directly funding the CPB distributing and the PBS stations airing the dishonest attempt by Moyers to rehab Wright’s image.

Update x2: HotAir-lanche! (and down goes pw for 2 hours.)

Update x3: Insta-lanche!

Posted by Karl @ 11:27am
114 comments | Trackback

Comments (114)

  1. One of CNN’s political pundits was a member of Wright’s church. She disagrees with your assumptions, Karl. She said the church was not considered uber-radical nor did she attend any sermons that were so radical that she felt uncomfortable.

    If Andrew Sullivan is a Obama wind sock, I think that makes you a Obama wind breaker. Get it, wind bre.. Ok, ok, it’s weeeeak.

  2. Juliette has a very good piece up on Comrade Wright and his rather tenuous attachent to any doctrine that isn’t inspired by the marxist prophecy.

  3. Oh, a member of the church did not consider it radical. Well, that settles it. No conflict of interest there.

  4. Isn’t the defense to this “They all look alike to me”?

  5. OTOH, Barack Obama wrote in Dreams of My Father that Wright told him in their first meeting: “Some of my fellow clergy don’t appreciate what we’re about. They feel we’re too radical.”

    O!

  6. Preacher man talkin’ on the teevee
    A’puttin’ down the rock and roll
    Wants me to send a donation
    ‘Cause he’s worried about my soul
    He says Jesus walked on the water
    And I know that it’s true
    But sometimes I think that preacher man
    Would like to do a li’l walkin’ too.

  7. Geez – missed your link to Juliette. Oh well.

  8. Rick,

    S’alright. I do the same thing to Dan. It wasn’t obvious and I clearly agree with you that it was a good post.

  9. Human windsock? Are you allowed to say that about a gay guy?

  10. Thanks. I’m glad that someone else noticed Wright’s betrayal.

  11. Good post Karl, but I have to beg to differ on the NPR indictment. I believe, as a matter of fact, that they went out of their way to discuss black liberation theology as a separate and unique phenomenon. They had a panel of preachers who talked about the difference between the fiery, semi-Marxist rhetoric of social justice preached by Abernathy, King, etc. versus the James Cone brand of uber-political calls-to-arms.

    So….it could be that I missed something that supports what your assertion, I don’t listen to them 24/7, but I do listen alot. And I am rather partial to National Public Radio, as they seem to be the last news source that has not completely lost their minds to Britney and Kevin or have screaming talking heads in place of thoughtful analysis.

  12. I don’t think that’s a windsock hanging there.

  13. Comment by Karl on 4/30 @ 11:37 am #

    Oh, a member of the church did not consider it radical. Well, that settles it. No conflict of interest there.

    But, you are a completely disinterested Republican? Pot, kettle, Karl. You were going to find some reason to oppose the hometown boy. The fact that you and Hannity had to go so far as to find a family friend who said bad stuff is just proof of how far you and the oppo research would go.

    As far as Moyers show, caricatures are only accurate if true. Before making snide asides, perhaps some research would have helped you divine this (straight from the Moyers/Journal FAQ, no less):

    “FUNDING

    Is BILL MOYERS JOURNAL funded by taxpayer money?

    Bill Moyers raised all the money to produce “Buying the War” and BILL MOYERS JOURNAL from the funders listed in the opening and close of the broadcasts. Neither CPB nor PBS contributed to these productions.”

    Small point about partisan hackery illustrating the larger hackery.

  14. Lionel, Thor was offering that CNN pundit as proof that TUCC under Wright wasn’t “uber-radical.” Karl was not claiming to be “disinterested” in his retort, he was adding perspective, which Thor has habitually lacked in his comments about Obama.

  15. Lionel,

    1. If you read my comment above, you will see that Wright and Obama agree with me about whether TUCC is radical. I have previously cited a ten-year longitudinal study of black churches on the subject, which you can find through the links.

    2. Point taken on Bill Moyers. I will clarify that with an update now. Because I care more about getting it right than Bill Moyers does.

  16. Oh Jeez. Yes Lisa I’m sure NPR is like warm socks out of the dryer for you and that’s ok (not really), but the whole reason they were going out of their way to discuss black liberation theology as a separate and unique phenomenon was so they could mainstream it. You can contrast their very late to the game coverage of Baracky’s erudite theology of liberation and social justice and blah blah blah maybe a little marxist and race-based but not really blah blah with their way out ahead of the pack coverage of Mitt Romney’s freaky genocidal racist Mormonism.

  17. a family friend who said bad stuff is just proof of how far you and the oppo research would go

    One might think one might presume some congruity of belief between the pastor and his “member”, eh, Lionel, especially when his “member” makes it clear in his autobios how significant the relation is, and appoints the guy to his campaign staff, don’t you think?

    Oh, yeah, that involved a lot of oppo research digging.

  18. #

    Comment by Karl on 4/30 @ 11:41 am #

    OTOH, Barack Obama wrote in Dreams of My Father that Wright told him in their first meeting: “Some of my fellow clergy don’t appreciate what we’re about. They feel we’re too radical.”

    It’s good to see that you’re excercising the words of the man himself instead of pressing your knuckles hard to your temples and channeling ghosts of crypto-Marxists past. Conjoining the two, Marxism and Obamaism, as you have tried to do, has taken you down a path toward a certain discipline of systematic propagation that the Soviet state media apparatchiks practiced. And you did say you were a Russians Studies student at one time or another? Certainly, then, you are aware of their mulitplicity techniques and their advanced ordering of proletarian thought ambitions.

    I believe further explanation of your repetitive mimesis, so laden with bourgeoisie fantasies of regicide toward Obama, are in order. Your work and the aforementioned Communistic revolutionary textual propagation technique(s), the nexus of apparatuses, do indeed beg your explanation! They define identical!

    Your modality is being questioned. Defend it if you dare, you Commie hack!

  19. You know what takes digging? Reading about it all in the New York Times exactly one year ago today.

    On second thought, maybe this is the real Lionel Hutz.

  20. gee thor, what do you think was meant by the word “radical” in that example, given what we both know about TUCC’s mission statement and Wright’s open acknowledgement that the church is based on Black Liberation Theology as systemized by James Cone?

  21. I’ll just add that the idea of a “Black Church” is, well odd. Are we to understand that Pentecostals and Baptists and other primarily Black populated churches are somehow bound to one another? Goofy shit, really. At best, even when they share a moniker, they are loosely affiliated or even governed by similar teachings. Now, if there was some Primacy or Authority involved, one could avert such confusion. But as it stands, folks like Rev Wright are able to erect their own, specially-formulated interpretation of scripture covering as far and wide as… erm… their very own intellect… and ummmm… there own personal experience….

    TUCC has a stage, not an alter.

  22. I’m onto to you like a stalker! Former KGB agent confessed to you, so you say! As in you talk to yourself, maybe.

    Clever double agenting, Karl.

  23. Goofy shit, really.

    I mean the concept of a Black Church is goofy… not a commentary on what a given location might profess

  24. they went out of their way to discuss black liberation theology as a separate and unique phenomenon.

    I’m less unsympathetic to it than anyone else here is, so —

    Discussing BLT on a panel of preachers controlled by an NPR voice — an emasculated knock-off of the BBC’s we-have-everything-sorted paternal drone — is not an unideological act.

    You can take that two ways. It’s both.

    Syncretism is a theology, and it’s the theology of a certain class. “Thoughtful analysis” of a call to arms is not neutral. Examining its believers like bugs on tweezers isn’t objective.

    A soft-voiced walling-off of BLT from the daily cares (and safe black voices they’re used to) of NPR listeners is racializing it. Adding classism to racism doesn’t make it not racist. NPR is talk for the whitest of white people, and it serves them, always and only.

    So Karl is right.

    (I know that’s not what he means, but that’s how what he’s talking about actually works, in this case.)

  25. Karl is a bag man for the neo-Marxist Nationalists. Claims of Jeremiah’s Black victimization theology as the new exploited working class doctrines past; please stop the feudal charade and the slothful indolence.

    This is a bery, bery bad man who stands before us. An exploiter of political and theological illusions. It’s hand-eye trickery done with Microsoft Word.

  26. PW ROLLED BACK —- TIME WARPPPPPPPPPPP

  27. Thor, put ‘bamas dick back in your mouth and STFU.

  28. Tovarich Thor, ixnay on the evelationsray!

    Spazebo?

  29. I have to say I’m am genuinely pleased that Wright’s subsequent performances showed up Moyer’s tongue-bath for precisely what it was.

  30. Shorter thor:
    NO, NO, NO, look over there!

  31. If you don’t see the similarities in libelous Commie liberation attacks on Black liberation theology rhetoric then your repressing your Commie-dar. All Commies see Commies in the funhouse.

    It’s a wicked tangential web Marx wove, dare I say almost Rovian.

  32. I would like to know why Obama stayed in Wright’s church for 20 years?

  33. thor: You and nishi and Obama really need to get a room.

    Preferably on Uranus.

  34. must… defend… the messiah… must… not… capitulate…

  35. “I would like to know why Obama stayed in Wright’s church for 20 years?”

    Probalbly the weekly dialectical autocriticism under the block commissar’s supervison Bible Study.

  36. Yea, Enoch. My psychologist friend calls it a weird manifestation of The Stockholm Syndrome where people are so disaffected with political life that they cling to and identify with he hopey changey or (in Hillary’s case,) the gender ascendancy.

    No amount of distressing news shall move them from their appointed savior(s).

  37. I resent that, Lionel, you may know me from “Government Conspiracies, A to Z,
    $24.95 plus shipping and handling,
    “Outtakes from Abu Ghraib “America’s Lubyanka, $19.95, “I saved the life of war mongering president, and I’m atoning in my own way” $25.95 and other such programmingfile footage”
    and other sources of stuff I made up.
    Moyers, may be funding his programs from a private source, but CPB’s fundraising cites his program as well as that long in the tooth, Joseph Campbell special as a reason to keep PBS fully funded.

  38. “It’s a wicked tangential web Marx wove, dare I say almost Rovian.”

    Rove’s a commie?

    What a magnificent bastard!

  39. Santa Claus is actually Commie Claus, once you’re in-the-know that Rudolph’s red nose is a crypto-Marxist overture. Give Karl enough time and jingle bells will have roots in the first known vodka toastes of Trotskyites.

    Talk about seeing red. You people, it’s you, not me, you!

  40. What do you call a witch hunt that keeps on finding witches?

    McCarthyism.

  41. thor bought a pig in a poke, and is really upset about anyone pointing it out.
    Because he’s supposed to be smart and all that. And he wasn’t smart then.

    How many internet IPO’s did you buy in the 90’s?

    The thing about nominating an old horse like George H. W. Bush, or Bob Dole, or John McCain is you pretty much know what you are getting. But something new and pretty and shiny like Sen. Obama? Well, the surprises are sure entertaining…

  42. So, which “private sources” do fund Moyers Big Lie program on Wright and the First Church of Christ, Communist?

  43. you could always visit his website, spyboy and check it out. or is the left side of things too scary without a chaperon?

  44. you could always visit his website, spyboy

    I’m on there right now, fudgepacker.

    Don’t see a link to his “sponsors” anywhere.

    Odd, that.

  45. you could always visit his website, spyboy and check it out. or is the left side of things too scary without a chaperon?

    Left side of things? Better not let steve hear you say that.

  46. Thor has officially lost it. Everyone knows the North Pole is a frickin’ sweatshop. Obama is so going to close those offshore tax breaks for Santa, oppressor of the proletarielves.

  47. Karl,

    Shhh – he’s scheduled for the first flight to Barrow after the election. Don’t tip him off, comrade.

  48. Lead Boogey Man – Rev. Wright

    Theme song – Black Liberation Theology

    Propaganda genre – Red Scare/Marxist Evil

    Audience – Rah Rah Righties

  49. LET’S HEAR IT FOR CAPITALISM!

    “Economy grows by 0.6 percent in 1st quarter of 2008
    By JEANNINE AVERSA
    Associated Press
    Apr 30, 2008

    WASHINGTON (AP) – The bruised economy limped through the first quarter, growing at just a 0.6 percent pace as housing and credit problems forced people and businesses alike to hunker down.

    The country’s economic growth during January through March was the same as in the final three months of last year, the Commerce Department reported Wednesday. statistic did not meet what economists consider the classic definition of a recession, which is a retraction of the economy.s means that although the economy is stuck in a rut, it is still managing to grow, even if modestly.”

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D90C9CPG0&show_article=1

    Actually it doesn’t meet ANY “definition of a recession”.

    To all you reactionary leftists: oooopsy.

  50. …although the economy is stuck in a rut…

    Or maybe it just hasn’t gone off the rails.

  51. Lead Boogey Man – Rev. Wright

    Theme song – Black Liberation Theology

    Propaganda genre – Red Scare/Marxist Evil

    Audience – Rah Rah Righties

    The Gimp – thor

  52. The concert is done. The crowd disperses. He waits by the back entrance in the rain, waiting to get the autograph from his hero. The hero comes out. He rushes up, program and sharpie in hand. The guard says ‘no autographs’ and stiff-arms him to the curb. He gets up to see his idol climb into the limo and leave. He stands, program drenched in gutter-slime, and watches the limo leave. “But I’m your greatest fan!” echoes off the uncaring cement.

    The life of thor.

  53. Everyone knows the North Pole is a frickin’ sweatshop.

    Well, I dunno.

    I mean yeah, he’s a businessman — but he seems to be taking care of his employees.

  54. …in spite of his taxes going up and all…

  55. He’s a jukebox hero, got stars in his eyes….

  56. Thor, the curmudgeonly toned gotta-carp-on-every-jot-and-tittle act is wearing thin.

    The least you could do is try to be funny.

  57. You’re thor? You’re thor?

    I couldn’t thit for week.

  58. So now we found a new whipping boy we can feel good kciking, blame it on the media. How lame. Since when did Morrissey become a sage?

  59. I think you should go by The Jakester. Adds depth.

  60. kciking?!?

    ANTI-SEMITE!!1!!

  61. So now we know that Obama deliberately chose pretty much the most radical black church he could have and stayed with it for 20 years and went even beyond a typical parishiner and became personal friends with the anti-American, racist pastor. When this started to break nationally he proclaimed Wright as representitive of all black churches.

    Nice.

  62. One of CNN’s [Chicago] political pundits was a member of Wright’s church. She disagrees with your assumptions, Karl. She said the church was not considered uber-radical nor did she attend any sermons that were so radical that she felt uncomfortable.

    Wrong, thor, my little ball-peened one, and a lie, to boot – in these respects: the “Anchorman” said she was not a member of the Church and had attended only ~ “10”[?] sermons during the “10 years she had been in Chicago”.

    And she did not assert that the Church was “not considered uber radical”. Essentially, she had no position on this matter = she avoided it like the Plague.

    As I recall more peripherally , she intimated that Wright’s Church was one of the only two Black Churches recommended that Blacks [+/-] should attend in order to meet/become what I took to be the up-and-coming and established mover-shaker, rad-chic ‘in crowd’, politicos, and activists of Chicago – along with some other of the usual predators amongst us.

    But, thor,I suppose the fact that the Church just happens to espouse BLT has no bearing at all on our overall evaluation of at least a certain one of its 20+ yr. specific members…and, counting.

  63. If you think of the Black Community as an Honor-Shame culture (like the middle east)the lack of pushback within the BC concerning Wright falls into place.

  64. What if I think of the Black Community as a false front created by lazy journalists and opportunistic grievance whores?

  65. I’m afriad I haven’t had time to check through all the comments, but the update implies that contra your “taxpayer-funded PBS’s Bill Moyers” there are no tax dollars in the Moyer’s mix. I’m certainly open to correction, but it’s my impression that PBS has never produced all of its own programming. PBS amd PBS stations do, however, buy programming from other sources, as well as from each other, so the Journal’s presence on public television is indeed, taxpayer-funded.

  66. I expect that any effort to put this into perspective will crash against a stone wall, but I’ll give it a shot. What’s the chance that the Wright story would have come to public attention (i.e. be dragged around in the media) if there were no Presidential candidate involved? To put it another way, what’s the chance that an investigative reporter somewhere could have written a story about Wright’s preaching without having his testicles ripped off? Zero, I would guess. Is it “news” by any definition, even the self-serving ones? Should we care what Wright chooses to do with his church? Does it truly have any relevance for the Presidential campaign, even if there is some sort of long-term relationship between the candidate and his chosen pastor? Is separation of church and state just a polite fiction? I’m not an Obama supporter, but it has nothing whatever to do with his religion. I am opposed to his doctrinaire socialism, because doctrinaire socialism hasn’t served the world well, and it’s been tried over and over. Are we capable of learning from the mistakes of the past? Maybe not. There are certainly many people who have learned nothing, even after living through the horrors of the past century.

    Personally, I have no interest in what any candidate claims to support or oppose — politicians will say anything that they think will win them votes. I base my position on the track records of the candidates, such as they might be, and such as information about their actions may percolate through the media. I’m not stupid or naive enough to believe that socialism is anything but an unattainable dream. Meanwhile, I support killing our enemies with drastic and overwhelming force, so that we can have a modicum of peace at least in our corner of the world. I don’t trust people who claim to have answers — the number of people I actually trust to talk sense can be counted on one hand, with some fingers left over.

  67. Yeah, Pink Pig, you are stuck.

  68. I had heard many black preachers on MSNBC, Fox, CNN, NPR, etc. prior to the latest round of Wright remarks and I remember they uniformly defended him, his remarks, and the “context” of the black church. I saw no disavowals.

  69. Shall it be explained, yet again?

    Pink,

    It would be of little import sans presidential campaign.

    But, because SEN Obama’s political career and record can be measured in relative nanoseconds, associations are one of the only measures availabe by which to evaluate him. You may be happy to simply take him at his word. I don’t think most folks are.

  70. In the comments, a “Lionel Hutz” (a pseudonym, I’m guessing) notes that Bill Moyers Journal is not funded by PBS or CPB. Thus, taxpayers are only directly funding the CPB distributing and the PBS stations airing the dishonest attempt by Moyers to rehab Wright’s image.

    Hey, just give me some “free” PBS, etc., face-time, and I’ll sell you all the Bow-Flex, Levitra/Enerex/Boniva/BLT-Progressivism, +AGW, and etc., I want.

  71. b,

    Yes, the point is that the media has been so in the tank for Obama that they put on that kind of defense, though after last month’s speech, there were black preachers on MSNBC insisting that Wright is way out of the mainstream. I love when people cannot be bothered to read a link.

  72. JM Haynes,

    You are correct, but if you read my update carefully, that’s what the part about CPB is saying.

  73. “While this story confirms that Wright’s Black Liberation Theology is a minority movement…”

    Wishful thinking. If it is a “minority movement”, it is so by a few percentage points, as in “the Republican Party is a minority movement”. And the belief that whites / U.S. government deliberately introduced AIDS and crack cocaine into the black community is held by a majority of the black community.

    I worked at a non-profit for over ten years in Baltimore and those views are so commonly held that it was considered bad form to even question them since we would be essentially calling someone’s preacher, teacher or parent a liar. We were reminded that such nonsense (my word) was part of the black experience whether true or not and that we had no right to question its reality for minority clients (in our case, homeless men).

  74. We were reminded that such nonsense (my word) was part of the black experience whether true or not and that we had no right to question its reality for minority clients (in our case, homeless men).

    Exactly!

  75. “While this story confirms that Wright’s Black Liberation Theology is a minority movement…”

    Wishful thinking. If it is a “minority movement”, it is so by a few percentage points, as in “the Republican Party is a minority movement”. And the belief that whites / U.S. government deliberately introduced AIDS and crack cocaine into the black community is held by a majority of the black community.

    You’re confusing silly conspiracy theories that are casually passed between people with the actual Black Liberation Theology–a religion–which Karl has defined and discussed here several times. And unless you can point to some actual proof that a majority of black Americans believe in either or both I say that we should discount your assertions as a conspiracy theory or unfounded rumor as well.

  76. I never claimed proof that BLT is a majority theology, just that it is minority only in a narrow sense. As for my lack of “absolute proof that a majority of…”, I plead guilty. But I say that you are one of those commenters that polices their favorite blogs trying to disarm other commenters by demanding “absolute proof” when they disagree with you or your favorite blogger.

    Have a nice life.

  77. What? Sen. Obama (D-Lamont Sanford) *doesn’t* believe the U.S. government deliberately infected the black population with AIDS?

    It’s become SO confusing to track his positions. (He *does* have positions, right?)

  78. As a “person of pallor” who has spent significant time participating in a church affiliated with the National Baptist Convention, a “Black” church regularly involved in interactions with Missionary Baptist congregations as well as other National Baptist congregations (and some C.O.G. congregations, Thank you J****, as well), I can tell you with absolute certainty, “Rev” Wright is well outside the norms of traditional (read “majority”) Black churches in San Francisco. He is far outside the normally accepted limits of [“Black” culturally but] predominantly political “Black Churches” as well.

    He is characteristic of “black” leaders in churches financed by “white” denominations. Cecil Williams’ Glide Memorial Methodist in S.F. being paradigmatic.

    Thank you for putting a question mark into this defamatory travesty perpetuated by Media professionals who are singularly unsympathetic to (and manifestly ignorant of) African-Americans, to Christians, and–especially–to people of both categories, not to ignore grotesquely opportunist (very nearly the entire Left and Right included).

    A pox on all their houses. Nu? What else is new? Boy, should I be glad I ain’t Black, or what?

  79. What’s the chance that the Wright story would have come to public attention (i.e. be dragged around in the media) if there were no Presidential candidate involved?

    Is it just me, or is this the stupidest question that’s ever been asked here?

    Does it truly have any relevance for the Presidential campaign, even if there is some sort of long-term relationship between the candidate and his chosen pastor?

    Hold on, we might just have a contender.

    I hate to be the guy who has to explain this again, but Obama has been basing his candidacy on his judgment over his experience–of which he really has none, the latter I mean–and the people he’s been associated with, especially those who have been spewing hate speech for twenty years kind of call that judgment into question, no?

    Of course not, since we’ve got someone who’s dedicated to HOPE and CHANGE. The fact that he’s the the guy whose Senate record is the furthest to the left is…well…let’s just not talk about that, huh?

    Okay?

  80. Ann Coulter came up with an interesting question:

    If Barack Obama missed the content and import of 20 years worth of sermons from Rev. Wright, how good would he do at a national security briefing?

  81. I worked at a non-profit for over ten years in Baltimore and those views are so commonly held that it was considered bad form to even question them since we would be essentially calling someone’s preacher, teacher or parent a liar. We were reminded that such nonsense (my word) was part of the black experience whether true or not and that we had no right to question its reality for minority clients (in our case, homeless men).

    baldilocks’ objections to the side: sometimes having a national dialogue on race means having some ugly shit dragged out into the light, and having some really stupid notions about the Others pulled to pieces.

    Yes, indeedy: if you find yourself blaming absolutely everything that you don’t like on racism, that might possibly be you being racist. Like it or not, if the only common denominator in your problems is you, the problem just might not be white folks oppressing you. This is not to say that white-on-black racism doesn’t ever happen, but I have met black people who do, vocally, blame pretty much all of their failures (very nearly: even all of their mild frustration) on racism.

    I tend to blame the Jooos, personally.

  82. Uh Thor. There is a big difference between the Stalinism and Marxism. You seem to be confusing the two. Reverend Wright is a Marxist. Ayres and Dorn(sic) are Marxists. It is reasonable to conclude that they all influenced, are influencing, Barak Obamas political views. Marxism does not work. I will not vote for Barak Obama. You, of course, may do what you choose. But don’t stand there with your dick in your hand and try to convince me it’s a lollipop. K?

  83. Pingback: CONFUSION OVER WHO BELIEVES WHAT « Citizen Tom

  84. Obama was speaking English when he rejected his former pastor’s crazy notions. Partisanship is not America’s first language.

  85. Comment by The Ghost of LBJ on 5/1 @ 5:05 am #

    Uh Thor. There is a big difference between the Stalinism and Marxism. You seem to be confusing the two. Reverend Wright is a Marxist. Ayres and Dorn(sic) are Marxists. It is reasonable to conclude that they all influenced, are influencing, Barak Obamas political views. Marxism does not work. I will not vote for Barak Obama. You, of course, may do what you choose. But don’t stand there with your dick in your hand and try to convince me it’s a lollipop. K?

    Barack Obama is not a Marxist.

    And, FYI, mine’s a purple blowpop!

  86. I worked at a non-profit for over ten years in Baltimore and those views are so commonly held that it was considered bad form to even question them since we would be essentially calling someone’s preacher, teacher or parent a liar. We were reminded that such nonsense (my word) was part of the black experience whether true or not and that we had no right to question its reality for minority clients (in our case, homeless men).

    Because a majority of black, homeless men believed it you believe it is representative of the Black Community? Or even nearly so?

  87. I worked at a non-profit for over ten years in Baltimore and those views are so commonly held that it was considered bad form to even question them since we would be essentially calling someone’s preacher, teacher or parent a liar. We were reminded that such nonsense (my word) was part of the black experience whether true or not and that we had no right to question its reality for minority clients (in our case, homeless men).

    Black, homeless men do not make up the majority of the black community. Attempting to extrapolate from that sampling of black people what the larger community of black Americans think is pretty fucking specious, in my humble opinion (especially since mental illness and drug and alcohol abuse runs so rampant in the homeless population). And I live in Baltimore and know that even the non-homeless people are not a reliable source of reality-based ideation.

  88. Barack Obama is not a Marxist.

    You’ve got to say it three times, and click your heels together.

  89. Thanks B Moe.

  90. Thanks for #87. Not for #89 (Shhhhh!!! Okay he kind of is a teensy bit. Just be quiet, dammit.)

  91. Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of whites flock to another black church [something to do with values]

    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1666693,00.html?xid=feed-cnn-topics

  92. #

    Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 4/30 @ 5:36 pm #

    you could always visit his website, spyboy

    I’m on there right now, fudgepacker.

    Don’t see a link to his “sponsors” anywhere.

    Odd, that.

    Wow, I never thought most of the regulars here were bright, but this guy takes the cake. You could type funding into a search box. You could read the post from the Simpsons guy and see it’s in the FAQ. You could do a lot of things, but I imagine you are too busy staring at a picture of Bush in his flight suit and reminiscing about the good ol’ days when you had the Dhimmicrats on the run.

  93. I imagine you are too busy staring at a picture of Bush in his flight suit and reminiscing about the good ol’ days when you had the Dhimmicrats on the run

    Hahaha. You should get a job writing gags for Maher. Hahahaha.

  94. …reminiscing about the good ol’ days when you had the Dhimmicrats on the run.

    lol.

  95. see it’s in the FAQ.

    Liar.

    You could type funding into a search box.

    Liar.

  96. Didn’t timmah admit to being FudgePacker previously?

    And I live in Baltimore and know that even the non-homeless people are not a reliable source of reality-based ideation.

    Brilliant, Lisa. As a Colts fan who went to the Colts/Ravens playoff game in Baltimore on our way to winning the SuperBowl (take that, Pablo!) I can attest that Baltimore’s view of reality is skewed, a bit.

  97. You could do a lot of things…

    Including just making shit up, apparently.

  98. Well, shit, Spies – it’s RIGHT there:

    Bill Moyers raised all the money to produce “Buying the War” and BILL MOYERS JOURNAL from the funders listed in the opening and close of the broadcasts. Neither CPB nor PBS contributed to these productions.

    That certainly clears everything up, now doesn’t it?

  99. That certainly clears everything up, now doesn’t it?

    Well one could, I suppose, buy all the DVDs and compile a list by hand, but it seems strange to have to do that.

    Most charity/donation-funded websites I’ve seen make a great show of listing their sponsors in excruciating detail. Moyers doesn’t.

    As I said before, odd, that.

  100. Well, perhaps Hennypecker could just TELL us who provides the funding for Moyers.

  101. People like FudgePacker never let those annoying little things like facts or honesty get in their way.

  102. prior primaries with 90+% of the african american vote says that an awful lot of those smeared voters didn’t see Wright as a problem … We’ll see what happens in NC but if Obama pulls above 85% of the african American vote then it would appear that this silent majority that is being “smeared” will have shown that it is not a smear but their beliefs …

  103. I imagine you are too busy staring at a picture of Bush in his flight suit

    Your imagination is overly vivid. Actually, I’m busy staring at a picture of myself in a flight suit. It’s not a military uniform on me, either.

  104. Since this is Jeff’s site, shouldn’t we be staring at pictures of HIM in a flight suit?

  105. 103: There is a remote chance I might vote for McCain in November. If I do, it will in no way imply I agree with every position he has taken.

  106. Since this is Jeff’s site, shouldn’t we be staring at pictures of HIM in a flight suit?

    I can give him my photo, and have him photoshop his head onto it, but I think it’d make his ass look fat.

  107. 103- I totally disagree with that. It would show that they don’t find the smear valid, or important, or relevant. While some may agree with Wright, it in now way would tell us how many do.

  108. #103: Again, a spurious extrapolation: Because you vote for someone does not mean you agree with their pastor. Because you vote for someone does not even mean you even support everyhing that that person believes (case in point – a crapload of people who happily voted for Bush are just as happy kick his ass over his immigration policy).

    Yeah, it is a smear. No two ways about it.

    I count myself as guilty of trying to soft-pedal the reality by saying “well, people give fiery sermons all the time” – which is exactly what the mainstream black clergy is refuting – their answer is “not that fucking fiery, amiga”

  109. With respect to NPR, Morning Edition interviewed Juan Williams several days ago. Juan said that Rev. Wright was outside the mainstream of black churches.

  110. It wasn’t the media that conflated the views of Wright with the entire “black church”. It was Obama, when he “proclaimed that he could no more disown Wright than he could disown the entire black community.” At the time he said it, I was surprised he made it that broad. But what I realized is that Obama himself has a vested interest in giving the impression that this is a broadly held opinion, because then it isn’t unusual for him to keep attending the church, etc. If it is not a mainstream view of the broader black church, then Obama’s choice to continue be there is a very meaningful choice. Both he and the Obama-media are making a concerted effort to blur that issue.

  111. (case in point – a crapload of people who happily voted for Bush are just as happy kick his ass over his immigration policy)

    As in, here — and not just on that issue either.

    And we all still get called “Bush stooges.”

    Just wait, Lisa — they’ll include you in that too, sooner or later. Because you’re here and you don’t call us “Bush stooges” yourself.

  112. Pingback: The Wright stuff: What took so long? [Karl]

  113. This site is interesting as well as informative. Enjoyed browsing through the site. Keep up the good work. Greetings..

Leave a Reply