April 27, 2008

Shannon Elizabeth comments on "white privilege" as it obtains in feminist circles

Elizabeth: “One time, while explaining to Marlon Wayans and Method Man why it wasn’t cool for them to pin me down and smear my breasts with Coconut milk and Aveeno, I had what we sisters like to call an epiphany — namely, that I was being unfair to my Black brothers, holding back the fruits of my white privilege from the victim class like that, even if I was doing so out of, like, primal revulsion rather than out of some sort of overt and conscious racial animus.

“Because the fact is, simply by virtue of my being white, I am — constantly, inevitably– exerting white privilege, and that is in itself racism. Period.

“So I ended up letting them pluck my nipples like Earl Scruggs doing a cathouse banjo jam on a couple of rain-glazed parking cones. Which, not only did I kind of enjoy it, after a coupla’ bumps of coke and a few Cuba Libras — but once I realized how charitable and selfless I’d become toward my beautiful oppressed brothers, I felt, like, totally empowered, you know?

“– Which, in turn, made me feel all guilty again — I mean, I shouldn’t feel empowered at the expense of Blacks because of my white privilege, right? — so ultimately I just pounded enough tequila to the point where I was totally at ease with waking up sunny side down on a mattress in the back of some pimped out van with a Cristal bottle shoved into my ass. It was, after all, for a good cause, and that feeling of being perpetually conflicted had been replaced by a scorching headache, some bruising, and vague memories of The Sugar Hill Gang and a troupe of dwarfs…”

(h/t Terry H)

****
update: My response to being called a “racist asshole” by the gal who likely sees menacing Kongs in her Cocoa Pebbles here. In fact, have a second helping, why dontcha!

Posted by Jeff G. @ 11:40am
360 comments | Trackback

Comments (360)

  1. You’re so naughty.

  2. But SOOOOOO funny.

  3. Gosh. If even Amanda is this appallingly insensitive I guess we really do a lot believe in white supremacy and black inferiority. And believe it more than we believe in God.

    Where do we go from here? For real I thought we were the change we had been waiting for but now my Doubt a lot eclipses my Hope.

    I don’t know who I am anymore.

  4. Poor Shannon. What’s a grrrl to do?

  5. Oh but Jeff. Your imagery is a lot unfortunate I think. For real it would be more better if Elizabeth had a bottle of Dom shoved up her ass maybe? I know you’ll do the right thing.

  6. HF

    Amanda has never known who she is – otherwise she wouldn’t have adopted her off-the-shelf feminist persona. One can only hope that this brush with the hideous racist corporate publishing world will dissuade her from ever writing another book.

  7. That’s priceless, HF.

    Soon, poor Shannon’s head is going to explode.

    BECAUSE OF THE CONFLICTION!

  8. Amanda Grrrlcotte, Pwn3dagin.

  9. Wow. That excuse was appallingly stupid, even for Amynda.

    Seal Press doesn’t produce ARCs? The first time Her White Privilegeness saw these was when the book hit the shelves? Uh-huh.

    Someone needs to set those illustrations to the Jonny Quest theme song.

  10. JeffG

    I am SO glad you posted this… I’ve been giggling over this behind the scenes but wasn’t sure to post it here.

    But for some more hilarity, please check out Open letter to white feminist community.

  11. And don’t forget a few looks at what Feministe is saying

    The heroine is a powerful white woman. In a reversal of classic damsel-in-distress, she’s rescuing a white man from the title’s “inhospitable environment.” But what ends up being part of the analogy here for the politically inhospitable? Not the right wing pundits or religious hypocrites or MRAs who are the target of jokes in the text: in their stead we have wild animals and dark-skinned people. Spearchuckers. Literally. I have to point out one thing. In the history of this country, there has always been one broad and well-lit path for oppressed classes of people to “better themselves” — side with the oppressors against someone else. That is exactly what these images are depicting: women gaining power through helping men against savage, violent brown people. Again, I can’t believe that the author or publisher would intend this, but how did these images end up in this book?

    BWHAHAHAH.

  12. This is delicious:

    NOTE: No endemic problem is the fault of a single person. Only a chumpass would blame Amanda personally for engendering some monumental schism in the very fabric of feminism. Therefore, anyone who cares to comment on this post should be advised that any ad feminam attacks will be deleted.

    OMG! Give teh cosmos an episiotomy, quick!

  13. It’s been a while since I’ve been attacked by the activist feminists for being a classical liberal (which, of ideological necessity, makes me a feminist in the sense of supporting equality of opportunity, and opposing discrimination based on sex). I figure poor Shannon’s plight could get them all defensive.

    — Or they’ll play it smart and either ignore me, or else attack me without linking back. To safeguard the ideological purity, you understand.

    Off to the mall. Need to get a wireless bluetooth keyboard and mouse so that I can hook up my laptop to my tv. Otherwise the kid just runs amok while I’m in my office.

  14. From one animated Pandagon reader:

    “Like I said in the thread at Feministe, that’s not a kitschy and ironic use of racist imagery. If that were actually the point, the purpose of the images, OMG, that would not make it okay. The use of images of scary black native men to convey a sense of danger is a blatantly RACIST use of racist imagery, wherein the racist message is the point. Offensive. Very, very offensive.”

    Um, how can what looks like an image from a 1940s fantasy comic book be used without irony? Isn’t the irony pretty much in-built?

    Another reader breathes even faster, perhaps while touching him/herself:

    “Although one can still make the argument that using colonialism/expansionism as the underpinning for a metaphor to describe the ‘battles’ of feminism is inherently problematic. But racistly depicted indigenous peoples? This clearly crosses the line. It suggests that what feminists need to conquer is dark people…”

    It’s dizzying stuff. And just a little revolting.

  15. Jeff, this is why you’re my hero.
    :-D

  16. Twisty is at least honest about her Marxist yearnings

    am loath to adopt anything labeled “traditional in academia,” since academic tradition is one of patriarchy’s most reliable methods of self-replication. However, short of revolution and a new world order wherein intellectual property is nothing but a quaint historical footnote

    cuz you know she won’t be one of the actual producer-slaves, she’s counting on being one of the needy-rulers.

  17. Amanda’s commenter “Invisible” opines:

    “Whenever I say something “anti-white”—usually in response to something, shall we say, “pro-white”—I always end up holding my forearm up in front of my eyes, pinching the skin on that forearm, and saying: Crap! Dammit! I’m white!

    I consider it a saving grace that I have some Tsalagi blood inside me.

    But that “white” part truly irks me.

    What to do? What to do?”

    Have we any advise for “Invisible”?

  18. David Thompson

    If you spend the whole of you life pickled in “the personal is the political” with the POV that male and/or white privilege is the original sin never ever to be expunged, then you comb every image – even historical – every word, for “offense” with the hope of being able to play GOTCHA! while concurrently living with the fear that the oppressed-group-du-jours rulebook on what is/is not acceptable changes daily, and you may find yourself on the receiving end.

    Amanda finds herself the object of the same irrational “judgement” she herself has heaped on others.

    About f*cking time.

  19. Invisible should post-natal abort him/herself.

  20. Amanda finds herself the object of the same irrational “judgement” she herself has heaped on others.

    See also: Maximilien Robespierre, Leon Trotsky, Ernst Röhm.

  21. Darleen,

    Yes, I tend to think of it as a kind of ideological self-harm, with mental contortion and self-loathing replacing cuts on wrists and missing shanks of hair.

  22. … colonialism/expansionism as the underpinning for a metaphor to describe the ‘battles’ of feminism … suggests that what feminists need to conquer is dark people…

    And then, reality struck.

    http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH_C_MORTACRACIES.GIF

  23. In no particlar order:

    1. Brilliant.

    2. I seems to recall someone kinda down about the publication of this very book. Funny how the world works, ain’t it? Maybe Mandy can get into the paperback edition of Great American Hypocrites.

    3. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you LeBron James and Giselle Bundchen on the cover of the April 2008 Vogue. Go for the “should’ve seen this coming,” stay for the Feministe outrage.

  24. Have we any advise for “Invisible”?

    If she looks like me, she could, if she’s strident and bitchy enough about it to deflect the obvious objections, pretend she’s black and more freely talk the same shit (and run for President). I’ve considered it, because I’m pretty anti-white, myself — but to me “white” means “like Invisible,” and pretending to be black only seems to attract those people. So fuck that. But it could work for her.

    However, circulating the holy water of “Tsalagi blood” — as she surely, surely is — she probably looks like Marsha Brady in cream sauce. So she should probably just stop lying. No one’s impressed, and only other, similar liars are obliged to pretend they are. That’s not a good life.

  25. Karl

    I’ve been lurking around that one for a while … some of the comments about James (and I don’t watch basketball so I don’t know) says his pose is actually his “game face” and would be known to fans. In the whole spread of athelete/model, the athletes are all in some sort of pose relating to their games.

    That Jill at Feministe would see James as “gorilla” at that point says more about HER attitude towards black men then the photographer. Plus Bundchen is smiling…hardly the “damsel in distress”.

  26. from a commenter who is NOT a poster at Feministe

    I think, as Rosehiptea pointed out in the other thread, that spaces like this really need to be transformed so that it’s no longer white women’s space to decide who’ll be included in the first place. But, yeah, I know what you’re saying, and the fact of the matter seems to be that that’s what it is right now. As someone said in the other thread (I can’t remember who) these kinds of conversations often turn into white people talking to other white people, and that is a problem.

    Looks like white feminist bloggers are to no longer have any editorial control of their blogs .. all hail the racial quota system for the blogsphere!

    :::snort::::

  27. Have we any advise for “Invisible”?

    Well…

    Whenever I say something “anti-white”—usually in response to something, shall we say, “pro-white”

    My advice would be to try addressing the substance, rather than the identity, of the arguments.

    Unfortunately, in order to see past identity and into substance, she would have to take to heart something some guy said probably long before she was born.

  28. OMIGAWD… the publisher is apologizing and promising…

    … anti-racist training!!

    As an organization, we need to look seriously at the effects of white privilege. We will be looking for anti-racist trainings offered here in the Bay Area. We want to incorporate race analysis into our work.

    You can’t make up this sh*t!

    (btw, it should be noted that Amanda on Pandagon has used 1950’s imagery to mock non-leftists/conservatives. Funny, no apology on THAT bigotry, eh?)

  29. Darleen,

    …but we all know that Ann Darrow ends up falling for The Beast;-)

  30. My God, feminism–the doofy, post-modern yaddayadda kind–seems to turn off all those thingies in the head that cause rationality. What the HELL? I mean, that James/Bundchen photo is so NOT King Kong and Faye Wray. Wait, should we burn the master and copies of King Kong, just to be…you know, safe?

  31. That Jill at Feministe would see James as “gorilla” at that point says more about HER attitude towards black men then the photographer.

    As long as they don’t compare him to Curious George, I really don’t see a problem.

  32. On a blog I refuse to read, Invisible wrote: “Whenever I say something “anti-white”—usually in response to something, shall we say, “pro-white”—I always end up holding my forearm up in front of my eyes, pinching the skin on that forearm, and saying: Crap! Dammit! I’m white!”

    I mean, how dipshitty does one need to be to pretend to be surprised–possibly even daily–by the color of one’s own skin?

  33. Is anyone else craving Thai?

  34. psycho,

    Isn’t Tsalagi something best eaten smothered in cream sauce?

  35. I knew it wasn’t just me.

  36. btw, it should be noted that Amanda on Pandagon has used 1950’s imagery to mock non-leftists/conservatives. Funny, no apology on THAT bigotry, eh?

    That depends, Darleen. If you promptly invert it, apologize for it (thereby taking the dishonest, unctious, judgmental ground we see in this week’s episode) and use such…to hang non-leftists/conservatives on your erected tree of tolerance, then it becomes the handy Swiss army knife of rhetoric.

    A tolerance that tolerates the most historically intolerant and is flatly intolerant of the imaginary intolerant.

    The layers of irony there would bring the entire western world to ruin for want of oxygen, and still the point would be made: That there is no point but conforming a grrrl’s reality to a grrrl’s projected whim.

  37. Great minds and all that, feets. As for “Invisibles” comment on “Tsalagi blood” being a saving grace, I’m 1/8 Cherokee, lily white and still probably darker hued than she is. Pathetic attempt to “identify” with the oppressed brown peoples of the world.

  38. I mean, how dipshitty does one need to be to pretend to be surprised–possibly even daily–by the color of one’s own skin?

    Being a left-liberal requires a very strong sense of denial of reality. Once you have that going for you, forgetting that you are of the same ethnic extraction as “The Man” really isn’t much of a leap.

  39. Er, unctuous. I guess that like totally wrecks my point…

  40. Man, if we could capture all their energy spend typing and route it into the power grid, we’d be able to shut down a few power plants. For the environment!

  41. And I guess we’re just opposed to think it’s a coincidence that Amanda is supporting Baracky? She so bad wants to put that white bitch in her place.

  42. She’ll do anything to perpetuate her rape fantasies I think. Anything.

  43. She’ll do anything to perpetuate her rape fantasies I think.

    Exactly what I was thinking.

    I’ll lay long odds that Amynda gets a little…moist…at the thought of being captured by savage tribesmen.

  44. But racistly depicted indigenous peoples? This clearly crosses the line.

    *snort*

    But opposition politicians in blackface? That’s OK.

  45. Comment by happyfeet on 4/27 @ 2:20 pm #

    And I guess we’re just opposed to think it’s a coincidence that Amanda is supporting Baracky? She so bad wants to put that white bitch in her place.

    Hap, if to prove that her evil, white, woman-hating Daddy loved his daughter only because he was sexually attracted to her, Amada would eat Obama’s coconut juice on her breakfast pancakes.

    She’s a mixed up young woman with more issues than a box of tissues. But I don’t see how that reflects on Obammer.

  46. All I’m saying is she way bad wants to see Baracky pimp slap Hillary and turn her out is all. This way her book sales will be more better. Thematic resonance and all that.

  47. But I don’t see how that reflects on Obammer.

    How do you feel about the rabid Truther love heaped on Ron Paul?

  48. I only have so much feeling to emote, Bmoe. It’s unfair projection! There.

    Hap, very intuitive. The angry vag Roves and seethes.

  49. What a lyrical, beautiful post, Jeff. One to be framed.

    Identity politics is all about setting hidden trip wires, and St. Amanda just ran into one like that Mayan dude in “Apocalypto.” Fuck, this is sweet.

  50. Pingback: Snappin' Amanda Bungles the Jungle

  51. It’s like Darkness at Noon, without the smoking or toothaches.

  52. Pingback: Tennesseefree.com » Snappin’ Amanda Marcotte Bungles the Jungle

  53. Pingback: Feministe » In Trying To Show How Silly Anti-Racist Liberals Are, Racists Assholes Again Prove Themselves To Be Racist Assholes

  54. I didn’t think Marcotte wrote humor.

  55. Ah…looky, little miss Jill still doesn’t get it.

    Surprise, surprise.

    I posted the first comment on the thread above and of course it is in “moderation”. Here’s what I said:

    [Jill writes] I’m going to be described as “the racist one” for pointing out that Jeff played on long-established racist stereotypes of black men.

    Hmmmm… and who looked at the game face of a certain basketball player on the cover of a magazine and immediately saw a “gorilla”?

    Amanda gets treated like Leon Trotsky and you think the schadenfreude by those who don’t buy into personal is political identity politic psychosis are racist.

    heh.

  56. Also, her writing appears to attract morons, chiefly.

  57. No wonder humor writing is a dying art.

  58. A predictable response:

    […]And remember, kids: Rape is always funny! Especially when you can use it to simultaneously tap into peoples’ fears about over-sexed black guys who are going to violate pretty white things.

    That proves Jeff’s point:

    To give up the foundational assumption that intent governs meaning in intepretive situations is to surrender discourse to interested blocs who can do with your words whatever they wish, then attribute that reconfiguration of your meaning back to you.

  59. Jill now blames the Vanity Faire photographer for the racist “imagery” because it looks like the poster from King Kong.

    Um… and who equates King Kong with scary black men? As a kid when the old Fay Ray movie ran on TV I just thought of it as a big monster movie, like Godzilla.

    Bad me, raised in a traditional family I just wasn’t trained to think racially about stop-motion animal models.

    Jill comes from a more privileged background.

  60. I like Jill. But in my post, Ms Elizabeth gave consent (“So I ended up letting them…”).

    I don’t think rape is funny. But I do think it funny that the kind of thinking involved with “white privilege” in a feminist context can be used by any cynical minority to basically get away with whatever it is they want to get away with.

    Somebody quoted Booker T Washington saying something similar here just the other day. Unfortunately, I’m not sure he’s authentically black enough to have made such an observation…

  61. From one of the bloggers who apparently quit in protest of the vicious attack by the right-deviationist Marcotte.

    “Racist comics, about MY PEOPLE. Yeah MY PEOPLE, being KILLED and destroyed”

    hyper-identifying with anything that might, possibly be construed as a signifier for whatever your group is causes people to over-react to pretty silly stuff.

    Also featured this gem:
    ” respect’

    “admire”

    “commend”

    codeword

    If the above are codewords, signifying hidden racism, then I guess we’d all best cease talking until the Central Committee for Sensitivity has come up with some clear guidelines.

  62. Jeff G

    You must be a bit more tolerant than I. Jill is less annoying than Amanda, and I chalk it up due partially to her youth. But she’s as nasty and strident on occassion in her attempts to be more feminist than thou as anything Amanda has done.

    Rape is NOT funny … a given. But I don’t consider your piece about rape at all and since a commenter or two on a thread on Feministe has already stated that the site should “no longer be a white feminist site”, you’d think Jill might get a bit of an inkling what the consequences are for buying into “I’m white therefore I’m an oppressor” schtick.

  63. But she’s as nasty and strident on occassion in her attempts to be more feminist than thou as anything Amanda has done.

    She wants to be Beria to Amynda’s Trotsky, apparently.

  64. Oh, don’t get me wrong, Darleen. I think her brand of feminism does more to hurt the cause of feminism than it does to help — it will win battles, sure, but it will poison the minds of those whose land it hopes to occupy regardless of their sex.

    It is about perpetual action: one can never cease being active “as a feminist” else one concedes that feminism has succeeded, meaning the people like Jill and Amanda would be out of a job, ideologically speaking.

    Just like Booker T Washington said. The Uncle Tom misogynist who is to be excused because he’s under the thumb or white privilege.

  65. “She wants to be Beria to Amynda’s Trotsky, apparently.”

    But Trotsky ended up with an icepick in his head.

    What does THAT signify?

  66. I’d ask Jill if the sheer level and fervency of the rather spectacular and obvious contortions inherent in asserting the intent of others struck her in any organic, instinctive, or unavoidable way as inversely proportional to the simple, logical usefulness and rational elegance of any of the self-evident truths she always shrieks about uniquely possessing but I’m pretty sure she’d miss that point.

    And that’d naturally make me a rape-condoning, anti-shriekist, patriarchal racist asshole, somewhat reducing the incentive to pose such a question.

    Figuratively speaking, clearly she’d rather spend all morning crawling on elbows across the entire blogosphere, her vast thighs bound together with the duct tape of projection, dragging her fleet of dead rhetorical Chevies than get a clue. Must be very good money (or some amazing strokes) in daily making yourself a target to the English-literate world.

  67. I didn’t think Marcotte wrote humor.

    On the contrary, she writes the best kind: Unintentional.

  68. I condemn myself for not pre-emptively condemning myself. But I condemn all of you for enabling me — as well as the structure of white privilege that I was born into and from which I cannot escape, for leading inexorably to this very post, which plays on racial stereotypes (Method Man, for instance, wouldn’t dream of speaking derogatorily of teh womyns) and misogynistic fantasies of rape by the powerful black Other (that being Marlon Wayons, presumably, who did some fine work in White Chicks) of the beautiful white sexual icon (Ms Elizabeth, of American Pie and “shaved” fame).

    It had to happen. That’s just how the power structures align, man!

    I mean, what’s a white boy to do?

  69. Because I’m not a racist asshole, Jill.

  70. But Trotsky ended up with an icepick in his head.

    Beria didn’t end up well, either.

  71. It’s like Original Sin for the secularized, isn’t it?

  72. But there is hope, grrrls: Having perfected it, now we can export gender and racial equality. Finally, a neutral State religion!

    We can and must do more to address this devastating human and moral problem, as well as to combat persisting forms of discrimination that women and girls from all walks of life face daily. On October 31, the Chairman and Ranking Minority Member of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, Senator Biden (D-DE) and Senator Lugar (R-IN), respectively, introduced the International Violence Against Women Act of 2007 (S. 2279). This bill would establish key offices at the Department of State and the U.S. Agency of International Development tasked with addressing international women’s issues and integrating gender into relevant policies and programs. The bill would also ensure that adequate foreign assistance is directed at measures that prevent and respond to acts of violence against women. S. 2279 has been referred to the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, a panel on which I serve. I hope this letter helps you understand why, as your U.S. Senator and the father of two young daughters, I hope the Senate will take to take swift action in considering this measure.

    Thank you again for writing. Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future regarding this or other issues of concern to you.

    Sincerely,

    Barack Obama
    United States Senator

    The fact such legislation achieves precisely the opposite effect — albeit on the opposite gender — shouldn’t be an issue.

    And, in fact, has yet to become one, Obamessiah’s pleas for a hopetitudinous dialog, above, notwithstanding: http://uchalla.wordpress.com/2008/02/08/stop-legal-terrorism-save-the-indian-husbands/

    The fact I’m not into racism, grrrls, is why I oppose legislation designed, ostensibly at best, to cure it.

    And if I may engage in a little intentionalism of my own, you do know what the inverse of that is, don’t you?

  73. Pingback: The Colonialization of Kong

  74. This is revolting. The portrayal of black men as violent rapists of a drunk white girl is beyond the pale. I can’t believe that this was written by someone who complains (rightly) about anti-semitism. How can you sleep at night?

  75. Correction: In #74, “…why I’d oppose…”

  76. Guess what, Shanti. I wrote this. So I happen to know that it’s a portrayal of SPECIFIC BLACK MEN as sexual partners of a conflicted — and willing — “pretty white thing.” I also happen to think it a pretty nice little allegory.

    If you can’t figure out why the poor drunk white girl is conflicted in my portrayal, that’s not my problem. If you can’t figure out the power politics the portrayal highlights, also not my problem. It’s easier just to feign outrage, intentionally skip over the point, and go right into the victim politics, though, so I don’t begrudge your having taken that rather predictable short cut.

    Me? Not interested in how you interpret me. You don’t own my words. And because of that? You won’t see me offering any apologies, or volunteering to sign up for any diversity training courses.

    Though if I did, I should hope White Chicks (starring Marlon Wayans!) was on the syllabus.

    Blog grammar.

  77. Shanti

    What are you reading? Obviously, it’s not what Jeff wrote above.

    You really need to see someone about those imaginary writings that offend you so.

  78. Phew. For a minute there, I thought the referral traffic from Feministe might cause visitors to figure out Jeff was NOT depicting a rape and question the rampant BS over where they came from. Thankfully, the denial is still working for them.

  79. Racists. Sexists. Homophobes. All of those wasted bytes to call other people names.

  80. beyond the pale

    Shanti, you do know the racist origin of that phrase, don’t you?

    I’m highly offended and demand an immediate apology.

  81. Wait, can Shanti be an unconscious anti-semite for not having familiarized herself with the historical baggage attached to every word or phrase deployed in the English language? Me, I’d say no. But Oliver Willis, Think Progress, and on and on and on and on and on — they would all say yes.

    More identity politics infighting to follow! Grab the popcorn, people. SHOWTIME!

  82. “…so ultimately I just pounded enough tequila to the point where I was totally at ease with waking up sunny side down on a mattress in the back of some pimped out van with a Cristal bottle shoved into my ass”

    Oh, so because you gave the black men names it means you are not stereotyping, and the quote above doesn’t exactly sound conflicted but willing.

    Got any more lies and excuses for your racism?

    Your parents and grandparents should be weep for you.

  83. Should be for me too, Shanti.

  84. Got any more lies and excuses for your racism?

    You’re the one spouting racist rhetoric here, Shanti.

  85. Also Shanti, I’d really prefer your replacing those two esses with asterisks.

  86. JHoward
    Don’t know who you are or what you are about and couldn’t care less about finding out from your posts. Go pick on someone your own size (brainwise).

  87. Vintage Jeff. Kudos, and good to see you around, Jeff G. I spread 21 cubic yards of color dyed mulch this weekend. and missed out on some great posts and comment threads. Amanda and Jill are as predictable in their schtick as the gleeeeeens and excitable andy.

  88. Haha, Jeff- you are on FIRE tonight!

  89. Oh, poor poor Shanti. Sorry, but the post is here, for all to see! The complete context:

    “So I ended up letting them pluck my nipples like Earl Scruggs doing a cathouse banjo jam on a couple of rain-glazed parking cones. Which, not only did I kind of enjoy it, after a coupla’ bumps of coke and a few Cuba Libras — but once I realized how charitable and selfless I’d become toward my beautiful oppressed brothers, I felt, like, totally empowered, you know?

    “– Which, in turn, made me feel all guilty again — I mean, I shouldn’t feel empowered at the expense of Blacks because of my white privilege, right? — so ultimately I just pounded enough tequila to the point where I was totally at ease […]

    Consent. Conflict. And the black men in question? Cynically taking advantage of the idiocy of those who tie themselves in knots trying to navigate the mine field of identity politics.

    All fleshed out in additional context by those orange hyperlinks that litter the post.

    You can call me a racist all the live long day. Hell, call me a liar, even as you clip the post and avoid the hyperlinks in order to try to make your point — a rather daft strategy given that the post is in plain view. But hey, whatever keeps your grandparents proud.

  90. so because you gave the black men names it means you are not stereotyping

    Is that the rule book in Leftist speak now? No one is to ever speak of any Person Of Color(tm) in less than lauditory tones or else one is stereotyping ALL PoC?

    I think I’ve heard of that revision, seeing as even a picture of Rev. Wright posted along with his own actual words is proof said poster is racist.

    My dear, how DO you get through the day? I suppose you read no newspapers, watch no television, least you be bombarded with stereotypes.

  91. Spies, brigands etc
    Go play with your eyepatch and spyglass and stop mindlessly repeating what you read here.

  92. Go play with your eyepatch

    Prejudiced against the differently-abled too, I see.

  93. Shanti’s now trying to blame the victim for noticing her racist phrase. Classic.

  94. Shanti hasn’t responded to me

    Because s/he is a SEXIST!!!11nn!!!

  95. Oh jeez. I know it was all provocative, and kinda hot really, so it’s not like I’m all surprised but really I thought it would provoke a better class of people. This is undergrad and dorky and Shanti is just tedious really. It’s Amanda what published shockingly inappropriate material. Racist cooze.

  96. Jill must have sent the B-Team tonight.

  97. Darleen,
    I notice you’re scooting from blog to blog saying the same things over and over – no doubt to amuse and impress the childish yobs here (Spies, pirates indeed) . Hope your kids acquire better morals from the people around them as they grow up.

  98. Goldsteins’s post was provocative(and racist). None of you commenters are ‘provocative’ don’t kid yourselves.

  99. Shanti

    You’ll have to do better than channeling PeeWeeHerman. You haven’t offered thing to support your assertions. None.

    Can’t you at least make a stab at it?

    For the hilarity.

  100. Goldsteins’s post was provocative(and racist).

    The only racism I’ve seen here is your “beyond the pale” remark.

  101. Write up your list of “better morals” we should all follow (“Thou shalt not offend!”) and tack them up on our door, Shanti.

    Or better, have Gaia carve them into a couple of stone tablets and drag that shit down from a mountain top. Then, maybe we can talk.

  102. JeffG

    Thou dost protest too much, methinks.

    You are wriggling around trying to deny my charge while trying to maintain your ‘coolness’ for the benefit of your cognitively challenged audience here.

    I will say it again: that was misogynist and racist.

  103. BTW Shanti, for the record

    my [adult] children (4 of ‘em, I’m such a breeder!) are making the world a better place … because, among other things, they don’t subscribe to collectivist ideologies. They recognize them for what they are … the politics of envy.

  104. But, but – Jeff didn’t write about The Rape, as much as Jillf wants to see it.

    Jeff wrote about reluctant, but (ultimately) consentual submission – way hotter than rape for both involved.

    Jillf could use . . . nevermind . . .

  105. Shanti

    I will say it again: that was misogynist and racist

    That’s an opening statement. Where’s your evidence?

  106. I will say it again: that was misogynist and racist.

    Hmm… I don’t recall any white smoke coming out of the Sistine Chapel lately.

    Hint: “you opinion” and “fact” are not synonyms.

  107. I’m gonna watch that movie about Yuma or whatever that Other Guy borrowed me. Shanti is boring except I love that word yob but that’s not all by itself really all that engaging.

  108. I will say it again: that was misogynist and racist.

    Even that’s a retrenching, Shanti – your first accusation was that Jeff was glorifying rape. This is just the next thing to throw when that fell short.

  109. “The expression is properly beyond the pale. It means an action that is regarded as outside the limits of acceptable behaviour, which is unacceptable or improper. A classic example is in The Pickwick Papers by Charles Dickens, dated 1837: “I look upon you, sir, as a man who has placed himself beyond the pale of society, by his most audacious, disgraceful, and abominable public conduct”. The earliest example known is from A Compleat History of Rogues of 1720.”

    I know you Americans only know about the Russian Pale but the word in fact was in use long. long before that time.

    Anyway, my quarrel is with Jeff and i have said what I have to say.

    The rest of you can go back to playing cops and robbers and pirates or whatever.

  110. Also, are they really, truly defending the integrity of M.E.T.H.O.D. Man as an actual person, such that Jeff was committing a race crime against a character that intentionally embodies a stereotype itself?

    Meth is a character played by a one Clifford Smith from Queens, not quite the character that was ODB, but a character nonetheless. Clifford, it is claimed, likes badmitton.

  111. I know you Americans

    Ah, yes. “You people”. Racist.

    The rest of you can go back to playing cops and robbers and pirates or whatever.

    If you’d managed to acquire an actual education rather than studying all the ways you can simulate being offended, you’d recognize where my screen name comes from.

  112. That’s an opening statement. Where’s your evidence?

    I thought she was taking the gender feminist position; don’t they consider “evidence” to be an invention of the patriarchy to keep women in their place?

  113. Shanti – My guess is that LeBron James does not care much for the fact that the white womyn of privilege immediately thought of King Kong, gorillas, etc … when they saw a picture of him with a Vicky’s Secret supermodel. I thought that tolerant would extend to pictures, or even, dare I say, dating? And, Shanti, if you agree with Amanda and Jill, you are a demonstrable racist.

  114. Anyway, my quarrel is with Jeff and i have said what I have to say.

    “Quarrel”? When did slinging insults and baseless accusations become a “quarrel”?

    Now, if you’d call it a “snit”…

  115. “I thought she was taking the gender feminist position; don’t they consider “evidence” to be an invention of the patriarchy to keep women in their place?”

    Well yes, but also “argument” is logocentric, and therefore oppressive to women, because words are artifacts or somesuch and not organic, like menstruation. A non-word, non-argument based response would be equally valid, and more authentically feminist, methinks.

  116. Anyway, my quarrel is with Jeff and i have said what I have to say.

    Translation: “I got my ass handed to me. I will now declare victory and run away.”

  117. Shanti – My guess is that LeBron James does not care much for the fact that the white womyn of privilege immediately thought of King Kong, gorillas, etc … when they saw a picture of him with a Vicky’s Secret supermodel.

    Funny thing — as a white, conservative-minded male, my thought on seeing the picture was, “that lucky, lucky bastard”. Oh, and I meant that last word in the sense of “a male who annoyed me in some way”, with the annoyance coming from the fact that this fellow got to spend a day with a lingerie model and I didn’t.

  118. Well yes, but also “argument” is logocentric, and therefore oppressive to women, because words are artifacts or somesuch and not organic, like menstruation. A non-word, non-argument based response would be equally valid, and more authentically feminist, methinks.

    Oh! So making an argument and backing it with evidence is oppressive, but smearing someone with whatever you have at hand is liberating?

  119. my quarrel is with Jeff

    Think highly of yourself, doncha?

    An inelegant exit to boot.

    I knew the intellectual rigor of Jill’s commenters would barely light the dreaded incandescent 60 watt bulb, but Shanti is down in the 4 watt nightlight territory.

  120. “with the annoyance coming from the fact that this fellow got to spend a day with a lingerie model and I didn’t.”

    I think that makes you a Nice Guy TM, and therefore really bad for some reason. I’m not sure, my feminist kung fu is less than adequate.

  121. Shanti, I’m watching the Stanley Cup Playoffs, as we speak!

  122. “Oh! So making an argument and backing it with evidence is oppressive, but smearing someone with whatever you have at hand is liberating?”

    Why, yes. Yes it is. But you must remember that all in kind responses are sexist. That way they always win, like when I used to play Hungry Hungry Hippos with adults, and remove all the other Hippos’ upper jaws but mine. All the marbles were mine! Mine I tell you!

  123. “Shanti, I’m watching the Stanley Cup Playoffs, as we speak!”

    Pssst . . . don’t tell her that the Rangers are killing the Blackhawks. Too colonial-racist-oppressive, you know.

  124. I think that makes you a Nice Guy TM, and therefore really bad for some reason.

    It demonstrates that his habitus is grounded in heteronormativity, and therefore Bad.

  125. You are wriggling around trying to deny my charge while trying to maintain your ‘coolness’ for the benefit of your cognitively challenged audience here.

    Actually, I was eating a piece of crusted Tilapia and watching “Monk.”

    Does that make me cool?

    Yes, now that you mention it, I believe it does.

    Assertion: what Jeff wrote was racist and misogynistic, and glorifies rape
    Evidence: That’s how Shanti read it.

    Counter: Shanti read it poorly.
    Evidence: Shit, man. Read her vapid responses. Do I have to do everything for you people?

  126. “Shanti, I’m watching the Stanley Cup Playoffs, as we speak!”

    The Flyers stole one last night.

    Mheh!

  127. Shanti? I’m still trying to figure out Tsalagi.

  128. “The Flyers stole one last night.

    Mheh!”

    Hockey requires the domination of one group, or “team” and therefore the submission of another. Hockey’s playoff structure allocates status to those “teams” which have demonstrated the most dominance. Hockey is thus patriarchal and anti-feminist. Unless it is played by women.

  129. Alec

    Don’t worry too much. They aren’t after hockey just yet…they are still too busy trying to wipe out competitive sports at the public school level.

  130. Darleen– have you noticed that when a female feminist insults a male feminist, it doesn’t normally create nearly as much hubbub as attacking a female feminist?

    It’s almost as if the male feminists are Third Class citizens in their world.

  131. “Don’t worry too much. They aren’t after hockey just yet…they are still too busy trying to wipe out competitive sports at the public school level.”

    Yeah, they may not know this, but as a former hockey player myself, hockey players are subjected to some of the same patriarchal oppression that feminists deplore. For example, we were required to wear garter belts, thigh stockings, and girdles. Our bodies were fetishized, I think that is what they call it – fetishized.

  132. Because it will never show up there…awaiting moderation…

    # Pablo says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    April 27th, 2008 at 9:48 pm – Edit

    As for Goldstein, his this poor disgrace of a blogger worth commenting on.

    Indubetedly. His that poon snarfle racist mojo no talky ’bout. BECAUSE OF THE PATRIARCHY!

    Must. Shun. Haters.

    Jill is a dipwad, likable or otherwise. Marcotte, OTOH, is a laugh riot.

  133. Q30

    If you follow back through JeffG’s link to Twisty, you get this comment from a guy commenting on another guy who had the audicity to defend Amanda

    I am not a woman, so there is, of course, no way for me to know how women would react to this kind of comment by a dude. But this made my jaw almost hit the floor. I sort of imagine that if I were a woman, my reaction would be “Us!? What the fuck are you talking about, dude!?” And it kind of surprises me that in the comments to Holly’s post, no one said, “Yo, dude. This particular argument is about and between women; mind your own fucking business.”

    I have always assumed that women would find it really fucking annoying if I were to ever tell them what is feminist or not, or to use the pronouns “us” and “we” in reference to feminists. And I certainly never refer to myself as a feminist, as I don’t think it is for me to say if I am a feminist or not; it is for women to judge.

    And that kind of undermines (for me at least) the Prof’s previous statements on what good academic research entails. He has so gotten used to the academic politically correctpecking order he keeps his balls in a small locked box under his bed at home.

  134. “Hockey is thus patriarchal and anti-feminist. Unless it is played by women.”

    I’ve never seen a woman’s hockey game.

    Do they trade jerseys at the end of the game?

  135. Alec – Unless it is played by lesbians. Which likely makes me a sexist. But I would pay money for tickets to watch a bunch of lipstick lesbians with sticks playing hockey.

    If I decide to cheer for the Cleveland Cavs because of King Kong LeBron, oppressor of all lingerie supermodels, is my anti-racism offset by my misogeny?

  136. “Jill is a dipwad, likable or otherwise. Marcotte, OTOH, is a laugh riot.”

    Jillf is at war with her waning, vestigial heterosexuality. I’m not making accusations of Sapphic tendencies, just that there appears to be a great deal of latent resentment that non-poly-based penises are so reliably attached to other-than-women.

    Marcotte lacks a metaphorical full-length mirror, hence the funny.

  137. This particular argument is about and between women

    Convenient how he ignores the racist stereotypes of Men of Color portrayed in Myndy’s book, innit?

  138. I’d forgotten how good Ms Shannon Elizabeth is at pushing their buttons, really.

  139. “I’ve never seen a woman’s hockey game.”

    World class women’s hockey is like a very bad JV game. Only slower, and without the ability to lift the puck off the ice.

  140. Would it be sexist of me to say that I think Jill, Shanti et al sound like they need to get laid?

  141. Comment by Alec Leamas on 4/27 @ 8:01 pm #

    But what about the jerseys?

  142. “Would it be sexist of me to say that I think Jill, Shanti et al sound like they need to get laid?”

    Well, from my short time(s) at Feministe, I recall that something can be both true and sexist, so, Yes, indeed – sexist.

  143. “But what about the jerseys?”

    Nahhh. Sorry, no dice.

  144. What’s funny is, I portrayed Wayans and Method Man as savvy and cynical sexists. You know — men. Had I portrayed them as dupes to the power structure like LeBron supposedly is (how does he not know he’s being shot as a giant ape, or as Mandingo, sought after violator of pretty white things?), I would be standing against racism. By, you know, protecting the black man from his own ignorance, and from the privations of mean master whitey.

    Up is down. Black is white. RACIST!

  145. Jeff, but you see: if you portray black men as violent rapist thug-beasts, it’s racist.

    Now, to portray men IN GENERAL as violent rapist thug-beasts– that goes-down real smooth.

  146. I’ve visited Twisty for a number of years now, and at first I was sure it was parody, and I’m still not convinced that it isn’t. Anyone else, or is it just me?

  147. But what about the jerseys?

    You do realize that using the name of a proud and ancient people for a garment which is often sweaty, torn, and bloody is racist, right?

    Also, the post-game exchange echoes the successive cycles of occupation and enslavement by the Romans, Vikings/Normans, English, and Nazis, and is therefore offensive.

    Please be more sensitive.

  148. LOL. I’m gonna have to second that “racist asshole” sentiment, and encourage you to do some reading or perhaps take an introductory-level sociology class to help you better grasp the (too complex?) concepts of privilege, patriarchy, and hegemony. You are, however, talented at writing porn. You should join the biz.

    – Privilege functions differently than overt racism, though they’re related and sometimes work together.
    – It’s actually OK for people to have ambiguous, conflicting, contradictory feelings about race, in spite of your apparent belief that it’s all silly and laughable to question oneself and one’s unexamined beliefs.
    – I’m sorry if it threatens your masculinity to admit that you ever felt guilt or confusion over your privilege.
    – I’m sorry if defensiveness is your only non-productive reaction to discussions of race/gender privilege.
    – I’m sorry you find rape so highly amusing.

  149. Darleen – That was no man that wrote that, at least not in the classical sense of the word. When caricature talks of weenie boys, that is the kind of guy he was referring to.

  150. I’m gonna have to second that “racist asshole” sentiment, and encourage you to do some reading or perhaps take an introductory-level sociology class

    I’m going to make popcorn. Be back in a bit.

    Heh. This oughta be good.

  151. “Would it be sexist of me to say that I think Jill, Shanti et al sound like they need to get laid?”

    Would it be sexist of me to say too many men on this thread sound like they’re feeling insecure about the size of their dicks? Must be both true and sexist.

  152. Pablo- yeah, In that whole meat = patriarchy thing a few weeks ago, I suggested that Twisty was actually a brilliant satirist in the mould of, I suspect, L Ron Hubbard.

  153. Until this season of Dancing with the Stars, I’d forgotten how good Shannon Elizabeth is at pushing my buttons.

    I pre-emptively condemn myself.

    And Kyoto.

  154. LOL. I’m gonna have to second that “racist asshole” sentiment, and encourage you to do some reading or perhaps take an introductory-level sociology class to help you better grasp the (too complex?) concepts of privilege, patriarchy, and hegemony.

    Better yet, Jeff, you need to get thyself up to the Bay Area and score some of them anti-racist trainings. And maybe some fresh off the boat Asian porn, also for research purposes enlightenment.

  155. J. – Hegemony. I know we were forgetting something. Hegemony. And, jingoistic.

    I am sorry you are a lying mendoucheous twatwaffle.

  156. Q30, there seems to be an ongoing awareness of and playfulness about the ridiculousness of the arguments. But the commentariat seems to buy it completely. It’s either tremendously executed parody or I don’t know what the hell it is.

  157. “LOL. I’m gonna have to second that “racist asshole” sentiment, and encourage you to do some reading or perhaps take an introductory-level sociology class to help you better grasp the (too complex?) concepts of privilege, patriarchy, and hegemony. You are, however, talented at writing porn. You should join the biz.

    – Privilege functions differently than overt racism, though they’re related and sometimes work together.
    – It’s actually OK for people to have ambiguous, conflicting, contradictory feelings about race, in spite of your apparent belief that it’s all silly and laughable to question oneself and one’s unexamined beliefs.
    – I’m sorry if it threatens your masculinity to admit that you ever felt guilt or confusion over your privilege.
    – I’m sorry if defensiveness is your only non-productive reaction to discussions of race/gender privilege.
    – I’m sorry you find rape so highly amusing.”

    Perhaps you’ve missed the point of the exercise. We’ve read them, and found them wanting. Jeff makes a habit of poking holes in all of your bogeymen. Mostly just a sophistocated form of bitching, hence the making fun part.

    The worst part about the white privilege monster under every white bed is that you can’t see it, but it is there. The less you see it, the bigger your privilege monster is.

    I’ve always wondered – what does a Jewish privilege monster look like?

  158. “Would it be sexist of me to say too many men on this thread sound like they’re feeling insecure about the size of their dicks? Must be both true and sexist.”

    Well, no, not sexist at all, just insulting, but I’ll consider the source and not really let it bother me at all. See how that works? Its empowerful.

  159. We’ve read them, and found them wanting.

    I’d lay long odds that the mean education level and mean number of books read per annum is significantly higher here than it is either at Myndy’s or Jill’s place.

    I’ve always wondered – what does a Jewish privilege monster look like?

    Same as the regular white one, but it’s circumcised and doesn’t roll its head down the hall on Shabbos. It’s sorta like Walter Sobchak that way.

  160. ““But what about the jerseys?”

    Nahhh. Sorry, no dice.”

    Ah, shit, now I gotta start watching women’s soccer.

  161. women’s soccer

    A thinly-veiled reference to domestic violence. Women. “Sock her”.

  162. Comment by J. on 4/27 @ 8:30 pm #

    Ok, who’s the parodist?

    Jeff, you playing around again?

  163. “A thinly-veiled reference to domestic violence. Women. “Sock her”.”

    Nooo, a thinly veiled reference to the womanly art of jersey swapping.

  164. I take it as a point of pride to be called an uninformed racist by anyone suggesting I remedy that by taking an entry-level sociology course.

    As for writing “porn” (nothing more exciting than describing breasts as parking cones and depicting a Cristal bottle jutting out of the anus of a drunken minor celebrity), pass. But being fearless about depicting human sexuality? Unashamedly?

    Marks me as a feminist ICON, baby!

  165. Oh. Crap. For real I thought it was kinda hot.

  166. hey J

    I’m not a man and I’m still waiting for the pandering little authoritarians, like you, who don’t like it when people reject Original White Sin(tm).

    Racism exists. But it doesn’t mean what you think it means.

    Maybe you can try with actually substantiating your assertions instead of running away like Shanti has.

  167. J. – That is some brilliant satire or parody. You got the overbearing pedantic tone down just perfect.

    If it was not satire or parody, then I will have to eleventh the idea that you are either dishonest, projecting, dumb, or some combination thereof.

  168. “Perhaps you’ve missed the point of the exercise. We’ve read them, and found them wanting. Jeff makes a habit of poking holes in all of your bogeymen. Mostly just a sophistocated form of bitching, hence the making fun part.”

    Yeah, that’s OK. I’m supremely curious to know all of which “them” you’ve read and, in your worldly, widely read expertise, “found wanting” to such an extent that you were inspired to compose cartoonish pornography scenes in sorry attempts to refute them.

    Sorry I graduated college and learned what “hegemony” meant along the way! Ha. Awesome. Bitching’s fun, too, but I guess male bloggers think they should have a monopoly on it.

  169. Bitching’s fun

    SEXIST!!!

  170. J

    For one, I’ve read (and reread) Peggy MacIntosh’s little exercise in self-flagellation

    Because it is so spectacularly entertaining (though probably not in the way she meant it).

  171. Sorry I graduated college

    Really.

    Well I, for one, am IMPRESSED.

  172. I’m sure the college is sorry, too.

  173. I also enjoy mocking those who “self-flagellate,” rather than thinking critically about or seriously considering their arguments. Also, don’t make too much effort to read more than a single article by McIntosh, or even to *imagine* what it might be like to be … not white.

  174. maggie

    Note that J like Shanti believes that there are only male commenters here.

    I guess female apostates to their totalitarian rule book set of index cards are “non-persons”

  175. Jeff, cut it out.

  176. J

    My ancestors were brought to the New World as slaves in 1697. That give me Moral Authority over you.

    You may now grovel.

  177. well, I was tempted to ask about the size of your penis, Darleen.

  178. what it might be like to be … not white

    Hint: you have no fucking idea what I look like.

  179. Darleen: Note that J like Shanti believes that there are only male commenters here.

    White male, at that.

  180. I also enjoy mocking those who “self-flagellate,” rather than thinking critically about or seriously considering their arguments.

    Oh, I’d love to see some links to that action.

  181. *imagine* what it might be like to be … not white

    dude, John Lennon is dead.

  182. Woman is the nigger of the world, you know.

  183. “I also enjoy mocking those who “self-flagellate,” rather than thinking critically about or seriously considering their arguments. Also, don’t make too much effort to read more than a single article by McIntosh, or even to *imagine* what it might be like to be … not white.”

    You see, we make a distinction between being critical, and indicting the society from whence we came.

    Also, some of us don’t have to imagine not being white. Who is smacking her big privilege penis around now?

  184. Pablo: Oh, I’d love to see some links to that action.

    Is Shannon Elizabeth involved?

    ’cause if so, I’m there, dude.

  185. *GASP!*

    You said the N-word without saying N-word, or even asterisks!

    RACIST!!!!1!1

  186. Jeff G – How would a sociology course cure us of our racism, sexism, homophobism, hegemonism, jism, and jingoism? I am sure I missed something there. Racists.

    And, Kyoto.

  187. JD: And, Kyoto.

    Don’t forget Bush.

  188. Aren’t books about the Patriarchy and White Privilege kind of like books about Phrenology and Alchemy?

    Like, its good to know what the words mean as a matter of general knowledge, but knowing all recipes for turning lead to gold isn’t very productive.

  189. Yet again, massive inability to engage in self-reflection. Must not “[indict] the society from whence [I] came.” Society is, after all, near perfect. The problems are in ME, my brain. But society is GREAT. Must not criticize own society. Must protect status quo.

  190. Yet again, massive inability to engage in self-reflection.

    You’re doing something involving the term “self-“, all right, but it’s not reflection.

    Unless, of course, you’re kinky enough to watch yourself doing it in a mirror.

  191. “Comment by J. on 4/27 @ 9:17 pm #

    Yet again, massive inability to engage in self-reflection.”

    Holy fuck, I think he’s for real!

  192. “Conservatives are the chief defenders of a capitalist, free-market system, and the capitalist, free-market system is perhaps the most profoundly unconservative social force in human history.”

    -Jonah Goldberg

  193. J. – Kindly cease and desist in the use of half of my name. It is like you are intentionally attempting to deny half of my personhood. Better Half, a brown womyn, is embarassed for you.

  194. “Holy fuck, I think he’s for real!”

    HE?!? SEXIST!!!!

  195. Sorry, J. Not to throw my virtual vagina around here, but I’m pretty sure I’ve got the feminist academic canon covered — at least up until, say, 5 years ago.

    We’ve debated feminism here before. Jill was a participant. So was Cathy Young. And Barry, too.

    Do a search. I’d find the links for you, but I fear you’d interpret the gesture as demeaning and presumptuous.

    But trust me: this ain’t a fight you want to pick, judging by the boilerplate you’ve tossed off so far. I’ve tangled with the kinds of people you likely quote on these topics, and I have been able to more than hold my own.

    Again, if you can’t figure out the way the Marcotte dustup maps onto my Shannon Elizabeth bit, you aren’t smart enough to be reading here. Or, to put it in terms you might understand, you aren’t so much a critical thinker as a critic who substitutes rote dogma for actual thinking, the result of which is casual dismissal, vague references to books you may have read, misrepresentions of the intent of your interlocutor, and finally — and inevitably — ad hominem labeling you trot out to silence those who marvel at the vacuity of your positions, particularly if you call yourself a “liberal.”

    I don’t need to support a Black presidential candidate to prove my anti-racist bona fides, nor to atone for some sin that belongs to people who may have looked like me, but who aren’t me, and so don’t speak for me.

    I doubt you’ll understand the irony of even adopting such a position in the first place, but what can I do? I’ll just keep throwing it out there until maybe one day, when there’s no one around whom you’re looking to impress or whose tribe you want to signal with the proper code words, you’ll have the kind of epiphany that, sadly, Shannon Elizabeth didn’t have here.

    Though by just slipping into a tequila coma, she admits to coming dangerously close.

  196. I will cease and desist using half of “your” name when my name is legally changed. So, that will be … never. But thanks for asking.

  197. J do you have any O’s over there where you come from?

    I’m thinking after what Jeff wrote here, a little Story of O might be a nice way to cap off the evening.

    Be a doll and find out please.

  198. cartoonish pornography scenes

    Which, had a variant been written by the Right People and had (therefore) been funded by the NEA, would surely constitute high, satirical commentary on…racism and/or sexism.

    graduated college … male bloggers

    Between that and the way your elitist sexism boldly submits his intent to your preconceptions, J, I admit that you lost me. See, that’s kinda the way it is with reason. It outs rubbish like yours just by its existing and your playing a hand or two.

  199. darn, im still banned there.
    Jill is not very forgiving i guesses.

    wat ever happen to Lauren?

  200. did Lauren renounce feminism and become a real girl?

  201. Not sure, Nishi.

    Anyway, I refuse to buy into the stereotype that feminists like Jill or Shanti are humorless scolds.

    I think sometimes they’re just playing a game. Thor taught me that with a story about Barney Frank.

  202. I hate Pinkertons.

  203. Yet again, massive inability to engage in self-reflection.

    Even considering the source, I know I’d be a touch offended to have been so analyzed — even that poorly — by a stranger who has very obvious issues with respecting someone enough to respect their actual intent.

    Careful, J. You take that sentiment to the national level and the next thing you know, a series of black preachermen are gonna be goddamning white Americans just for being white.

    Oh.

  204. Lauren’s here, now: http://fauxrealtho.com/

    She’s been in the Feministe comments during this spat, though.

  205. oh gawd. tyvm Some White Guy.
    now i have to read the comments.
    :(
    u know jeffie…..i allus thot mebbe Lauren could learn to dance.
    marcotte and jill, not so much.

  206. ” … feminist academic canon covered — at least up until, say, 5 years ago.” I hadn’t realized academic canons spanned such short periods of time. I also think social movements can be squeezed easily into little convenient canning jars.

    ” … nor to atone for some sin that belongs to people who may have looked like me, but who aren’t me, and so don’t speak for me.” I didn’t realize we were discussing presidential candidates on this thread. Anyone who thinks of anti-racist efforts as “atoning for the sins of people who looked like me” must have a pathetic grasp of the way certain people benefit at the expense of others in imperialist/capitalist societies throughout history, and the fact that history actually *influences* the present. Yes, influences it for real. Because the present is actually built on it.

    I appreciate your rhetorical analysis of my comments – most of which (casual dismissal, ad hominem attacks) are readily obvious in your own writing. I’m not looking for a “fight.” How wonderful that you view your everyday blog commenters as “asking for” such. And I’m glad to hear you feel quite secure with your own tremendous ego. But, having not been convinced otherwise, I will simply reiterate my point at the outset, which was that your cute story is racist assholery. You might spend more time considering why people consider you a racist asshole. I’d think it would gnaw at a person after a while.

  207. “Yet again, massive inability to engage in self-reflection. Must not “[indict] the society from whence [I] came.” Society is, after all, near perfect. The problems are in ME, my brain. But society is GREAT. Must not criticize own society. Must protect status quo.”

    You’re not really very good at nuance, are you?

    I don’t believe that you maintain the moral weight to INDICT a society that provides you with material comforts and liberties superior to what most of history’s royalty enjoyed. You are an insignificant pimple on the ass of progress. You have built nothing but a nest feathered with complaints and misplaced adolescent rage against a father who didn’t pay you enough attention.

    I’ll entertain criticism, but criticism is not what you and yours offer.

  208. Lauren and I used to text. She’s got a good sense of humor. Sadly, she doesn’t always use it.

    And, just for the record, there is no spat between feministe and me. They may take issue with what I wrote, but I don’t much care. Their response was so predictable that it is hardly worth mentioning.

    That the majority of responses to my post from feministe’s readers are happening over there and not here is telling, as well. There’s no moderation to get through over here…

    Of course, it’s not that they fear engagement. But rather, they refuse engage someone so odious as me. I wear the scarlet letter.

    Several of them, probably.

  209. I will simply reiterate my point at the outset, which was that your cute story is racist assholery.

    Translation: “I will completely ignore everything that’s been said, and fall back to my original ex cathedra proof by bald assertion.”

  210. When I said spat, I meant the Great Marcotte Book Catastrophe of 2008. Lauren’s comments are down in the Jill Apology thread (and the Holly meta-discussion one, before it).

  211. Lauren was the only reasonable person writing at Feministe back in the day. She was at least rational and didn’t let some of the ridiculous gender-feminism get in her way.

    Jill is just enough unsure of herself to retreat to the heaving bosom of the Righteous Vagina Warrior when she feels she gets too close to seeing people as individuals, capable of managing their own moral houses.

  212. Because the present is actually built on it.

    But is your target, you judgmental twat?

  213. wow…she got married.
    i guess that is like learning to dance.
    mebbe better.
    :)

  214. Anyone who thinks of anti-racist efforts as “atoning for the sins of people who looked like me” must have a pathetic grasp of the way certain people benefit at the expense of others in imperialist/capitalist societies throughout history

    Oh gag me…another freshman dorm Marxist.

  215. One time I got a flat tire on North Broad Street in North Philadelphia at 1:30 A.M. on a Saturday night.

    “Negroes, stand back!” I said, “I’ve got WHITE PRIVILEGE!”

  216. I hadn’t realized academic canons spanned such short periods of time. I also think social movements can be squeezed easily into little convenient canning jars.

    This makes no sense. Sorry, but I said I’ve read the major works on feminism published up until 5 years ago. That goes back to Wollstencraft and, if you’re of that mind, even some of the Christian confessionals.

    And yes, social movements can be distilled into their basic arguments. Anthologies often go this route.

    I didn’t realize we were discussing presidential candidates on this thread. Anyone who thinks of anti-racist efforts as “atoning for the sins of people who looked like me” must have a pathetic grasp of the way certain people benefit at the expense of others in imperialist/capitalist societies throughout history, and the fact that history actually *influences* the present. Yes, influences it for real. Because the present is actually built on it.

    You don’t realize a lot of things, I suspect. Naturally the past can influence the present. But so can the perpetual overdetermination of the past. Consider that your meta-lesson, and hit the search function. My “pathetic grasp” of racial issues didn’t keep my from teaching about such issues at a rather high level.

    I appreciate your rhetorical analysis of my comments – most of which (casual dismissal, ad hominem attacks) are readily obvious in your own writing.

    Actually, I believe I’ve repeatedly answered the accusations that I’m a racist sexist by explaining the post. You, on the other hand, have not made an argument yet that I can find, other than that we’re not of the skill level to engage in an argument with someone so entrenched in gender identity politics as you. Which is not really an argument at all.

    I’m not looking for a “fight.” How wonderful that you view your everyday blog commenters as “asking for” such. And I’m glad to hear you feel quite secure with your own tremendous ego. But, having not been convinced otherwise, I will simply reiterate my point at the outset, which was that your cute story is racist assholery. You might spend more time considering why people consider you a racist asshole. I’d think it would gnaw at a person after a while.

    If the kinds of people who considered me a racist asshole weren’t themselves self-righteous, illiberal twits, I guess it might gnaw at me. As it stands, though, I define myself by my enemies.

    I am your Other. And your Gaze is showing.

  217. Did Jeff get racism in his sexism, or sexism in his racism? I can’t tell anymore . . .

  218. Anyone reading the comments over there who doesn’t get why Jill’s deleting links to Sudy’s blog, it’s because part of the case against Marcotte is that she chased BrownFemiPower out of the blogosphere; Marcotte did this by disagreeing with the accusation that she’d plagiarized from BFP. When a blogger of color says you’ve stolen from her, you must have. So, now Jill is trying to protect a blogger of color from you people. By deleting links to her blog.

    I wish somebody had been around to look out for me, that way, when I was a blogger with no traffic.

  219. But now I have to go watch “Psych.” That little negro sidekick, he makes me laugh so!

  220. God damn thread lousy with Pinkertons.

  221. Feets – I remember sometimes Pinkertons had them some cool uniforms. Impressed me as a kid.

  222. We should all take a moment and examine why a douchenozzle like J. would think that we are racist assholes. It gnaws at me, it does. So, take a moment … there, does that not feel better? Now, since the only way you could find someone to be a racist asshole in this dustup is to willfully and intentionally ignore or misrepresent the authors expressed intention. In doing so, it leads one to believe that the person calling the names is a more proper example of the names being called.

    Racists

  223. Oh, here’s a fun one from the Feministe thread

    I find their insistence that its not rape as an indication that they are grey rape supporters.

    Unpack that gem … it’s as faceted and definable as an emerald cut piece of jello.

  224. Boobs.

    It needed to be said.

    Or we could just let reality unravel.

    Isn’t there a finite, allowable, number of links to feminist sites that, if exceeded, causes the End Times?

    Just wondering.

  225. Darleen – If you leave jello uncovered in the refrigerator a long time it does get a little tough on the outside, especially if you stare at it a lot. Not enough for a true emerald cut, though I’m afraid.

    These poseurs need to try harder.

  226. “Oh, here’s a fun one from the Feministe thread

    I find their insistence that its not rape as an indication that they are grey rape supporters”

    I saw it too, Darlene. Good crazy, it is. I’m not sure what “consent” means to them when “letting guys have sex with you” isn’t “consent.”

  227. rape comes in colors!?

  228. rape comes in colors!?

    Maybe Benetton will sponsor the miniseries when Jeff sells the script.

    Hey! They could use that cool old Stones song “She’s a Rainbow” for the theme.

    That would rock.

  229. Everytime Jillf writes something stupid, I make it a point to oppress a woman. I’m going to be very, very busy tomorrow.

  230. Grey rape: that’s like the nuanced version of seeing rape as either black or white, right?

    Does this mean we’re now considered progressives? Or John Kerry?

  231. Anyone who thinks of anti-racist efforts as “atoning for the sins of people who looked like me” must have a pathetic grasp of the way certain people benefit at the expense of others in imperialist/capitalist societies throughout history

    Just for the record, has anyone got an example of an economic system that has produced a higher standard of living for more people than capitalism?

  232. Alec – You don’t get it. You are oppressing womyn by existing.

  233. “Alec – You don’t get it. You are oppressing womyn by existing.”

    You know, the funny thing is, a full 80% of what Jillf et al. consider oppressive helps to get me laid. I call that a Win/Win. See also, the time I called my secretary “tuts.”

  234. JeffG

    Unfortunately, for the VW’s, rape IS a black/white issue – if a woman claims she was raped, then she was. Period. And to question her is to be a rape apologist.

  235. rape comes in colors!?

    The Menendez brothers said asparagus made fluids taste funny, but I don’t have any personal evidence of that.

  236. Does anyone else want to see the Feministe girl in the brown overalls actually fire that short-barelled, pistol gripped 12 guage?

    Because, you know, I don’t think they know what that would look like in real life. It is kind of like if PW’s mascot was an anvil falling on Jeff’s head – not exactly a morale booster.

  237. The irony of people who see all sorts of uncoded things as coded refusing to recognize an inconvenient metaphor is so thick it probably would resist Auric Goldfinger’s laser.

  238. Jeff G: Grey rape: that’s like the nuanced version of seeing rape as either black or white, right?

    Ah. I was thinking some kind of X Files shit involving beings from Zeta Reticuli.

  239. Jeff = Jill’s very own Mr. Darcy.

    I love it when they go at it like this. It’s so romantic.

  240. Methinks Grey Rape is sex when the man says “please” pre-coetus.

    For example, Grey Rape:

    “Margaret, can we do it tonight?”

    “I don’t think so, Pete, I’ve got a bridge tournament tomorrow.”

    “Pleeeeaaaaseeee? I’ll be quick”

    “Well, allright.”

  241. From Karl:

    The irony of people who see all sorts of uncoded things as coded refusing to recognize an inconvenient metaphor is so thick it probably would resist Auric Goldfinger’s laser.

    A simple game of “Telephone” would probably be fatal for those folks. Science demands sacrifices. Let me just get my popcorn…

  242. Ardsgaine: Jeff = Jill’s very own Mr. Darcy.

    “It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a feminist in possession of a victim complex, must be in want of someone to accuse of being a rape apologist.”

    Nah, the prose just doesn’t sing.

  243. “I am your Other.”

    Have you thought about getting some business cards printed up? Maybe have some flying phalli around the edges.

  244. TerryH – An airplane towing that banner has been spotted at numerous venues.

  245. The last time I recall Jillf sailing the Good Ship HMS White Privilege, it was in or about Raleigh, NC – had something to do with those nice young gentlement from Duke, no? Their White Privilege made them unaware that they had raped a black woman, or something.

    And she’s not embarassed at all by that, huh?

  246. If its any consolation, Ms Amanda is finally getting the respect she deserves.

  247. zomg!
    my sides hurrt from laffin.
    i do lurv it so when u push it jeffie.

  248. Haha, you got linked by Feministe, dude.

    BTW: here’s how much Feministe users care about actual sexual assault vs. PC-safe championing causes that don’t mean anything but to show how enlightened you are. These two were standing side by side, no less.

    ===================================================
    April 24th: Sexual Violence In The Congo: A few great pieces. First, Mark Goldberg speaks with filmmaker Lisa Jackson, who recently released the documentary The Greatest Silence: Rape in the Congo:

    Stephen Lewis, the co-director of AIDS-Free World, has another must-read piece up in The Nation — it’s the transcript of the remarks he gave on V-Day in New Orleans. (Also at AlterNet).

    Women in the Congo are also speaking out. Rural women have started radio shows to tell their stories, disseminate information and connect with others.
    We posted about this a while back, but don’t forget to hold the corporate rapists accountable as well. And a reminder that this is not a new issue: A Ms. Magazine article about rape in the Congo from 2005.

    Comments 1 Comment »
    ===================================================

    April 25th: Jungle feminist adventure comic book: racist stereotypes?

    http://www.feministe.us/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/marcotte_3.jpg

    396 Comments »
    ==========================================================================

    396 replies concerned about a comic that has headhunters in it vs. 1 reply concerned about g’damn rape armies.
    Those are Feministe’s priorities in a nutshell right there.

  249. Do “Grey Rape Supporters” participate in alien abductions? Fat-headed little grey guys with spaceships and an anal fixation?

    Why do I miss out on all the really big threads, anyway?

  250. Apparently you read the blog at weird times relative to everyone else.

  251. Oh by the way for all you Feministe readers no doubt reading this, if you don’t think your views will stand up in an anonymous internet forum that doesn’t actively filter out dissenting thoughts like yours does, how can you seriously consider ridiculous ideas like “prison abolition” won’t be laughed out of the building in any mainstream venue?

    PS: Let rapists run free after two years of group therapy hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha

  252. The phrase beyond the “beyond the pale”, refers to the community who exist outside of the “pale” or the palisade.

    The English Language has a particular usage – the Pale is the part of Ireland that comprises Dublin and the adjacent territory, which constituted the centre of British rule. Within that area British rule was strongest, outside it was comparatively weak. The phrase should be understood in the context of the forced Anglicisation of that country. It was common practice in Ireland to allow the Protestants to live within the city walls but restrict the rights of Catholics. They were forced to live beyond the Pale. Literally in the case of Dublin. To say that someone was beyond the pale would mean that they lived beyond civilised society.

    So Shanti is right in that the phrase predates the Russian use. However, the same meaning (ie marking the division between the U and non-U) marks it’s origin.

    http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/64100.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale

    Now, I don’t imagine that Shanti meant to resurrect this racist usage, and since I don’t seek racism in homeopathic quantities I’m keen to overlook the faux pas. However, I agree with Jeff that intention is everything – hoist by your own petard.

  253. Feministe readers no doubt reading this, if you don’t think your views will stand up in an anonymous internet forum that doesn’t actively filter out dissenting thoughts like yours does

    This is the reason the Left’s lost the ability to argue effectively, without race and sex cards. Suppressing debate with your ideological opponents is like avoiding matches with another team and shouting “We’re Number 1!”

  254. Really, it’s not that funny: this victimizing of victimizers who just want to world to be safe for victimizers while wanting victims to florish and continue to be victimized.

  255. in other words: a lotta z’s

  256. ‘merican feminism stops at the waters edge.
    i surveyed the carnival of feminists for 4 months back in 2005 and this is wat i got.

    i googled for feministe and the mormon polygamy ranch, and got nothin.
    it bores me to tears to read there, so i wont look any further.

  257. 251; yeah, I heard a report on NPR about that Congo rape problem. Didn’t ever hear any report from the Right Wing press about it though. In fact, according to the report an American white woman who was a victim of rape in America was active in the Africa trying to bring attention to the problem. I bet she’s a ‘feminist’.

    Now blaming “FemiNazis” for the problem is a little twisted you know. But it’s what they call ‘humor’ here.

  258. datadave seems like the kind to show up at the local Pacifists-R-Us meeting, and try to pick a fight to show how passionately he cares.

  259. zono’s feeling ‘victimized’ too…oh so sad. Liberals seem to be active in Africa while Rightwingers like GW Bush just throw money at the problem. Eh, the victimizers are being victimized yet again. Tax and spend, tax and spending conservatives while liberal rape victims are on the ground doing good deeds.

    As for academia, is this is the meaning of ‘erstwhile’?

  260. Just a note from personal experience, while Darleen’s doing her best to fill our overfilled jails w/ both the innocent and the guilty (at the DA’s office), my doctor feminist former g/f spent 3 years in former Zaire (peacecorps) and is now doing res.Indian health care for much less than a doc. in NYC or LA. Again, a “liberal” doing good work at low costs while …… the victimizers are feeling victimized. (ala Ted Bundy, up and coming major young Republican of the 70s Wash.state’s party who was made fun of above as some sort of ‘modernist’ icon…but was in fact a conservative Repug who hated feminism and acted upon his ‘feelings’.)

  261. Didn’t ever hear any report from the Right Wing press about it though.

    Hint: that’s because you’re stupid.

    17 pages of stories, dude.

    I’m not sure what you consider “right wing” (anything to the right of Soviet-era Pravda, I’m guessing), but this story has clearly been covered.

  262. JD, alas I work for a living so can’t regail you all as often as when I was underemployed but weather is a little tough for outside duties so maybe on my way back to VT I’ll check in. I suspect Obama’s not having it easy in your state.

    I prefer the political stuff here but this in-house English Dept pissing match between Women’s Lit and Mainstream Lit. eh, is another reason to doubt the utility of either. And since the women can’t piss as far i’d say Jeff et al’s worries of Feminism taking over their victimized verbal lives is purely paranoid puddishness.

    p’s and z’s

  263. amigo, (fuckwad), I said “rightwing” press…your sources: NYTimes, Christian Science monitor, etc. etc. don’t rank as ‘rightwing’….so Spies, thanks for proving my point, bugfucker.

  264. Define “right wing press”.

    Give me an example.

    kthanxbye.

  265. damn, my lib g/f loves Psych too. dAmn, that jeff. He’s just like my g/f!!!

  266. Kinda early in the day to be mixing OxyContin and cheap gin, ain’t it dave?

  267. Liberals seem to be active in Africa

    And yet Africa continues to be a nightmare of war, starvation, and human rights violations.

    Meanwhile, countries which adopted capitalism, such as Korea and Japan, are peaceful, prosperous, and happy.

    Why is that, Dave?

  268. I think that makes you a Nice Guy TM, and therefore really bad for some reason. I’m not sure, my feminist kung fu is less than adequate.

    I thought “Nice Guy” was women’s short-hand for “door mat”.

  269. Comment by J. on 4/27 @ 8:30 pm #

    “Would it be sexist of me to say that I think Jill, Shanti et al sound like they need to get laid?”

    Would it be sexist of me to say too many men on this thread sound like they’re feeling insecure about the size of their dicks?

    How does J. know the size of your wieners? JD, did you have J. over along with some close personal gorillas and not invite me again. DAMN!

    After years of cock-modeling on the internet, I committed the ultimate cock-model sin. I got older. So I’m out on the street. Just another gorgeous cock, without any marketable skills. I’m through apologizing for my photogenic cock. I’m just as God made me.

  270. Fox, National Review, CBS (boring), NBC (usually), ABC (esp.), Murdoch papers, AM radio (! air america exception…) CNN a lot of time w/ antiAbortion activist former legislator at top of the list: Joe whatzhisname S–. the ‘media’ is taken over by usually conservative “pundits” so that “news” and “punditry” is seen as the same by the uninformed public. Just as the Right Wing likes it. Fox though has pushed the press to the right with it’s mix of entertainment and conservative commentary with clever marketing of less than conservative comix/serials.

    kbye

  271. oops

  272. See? I can’t even type. Who’s the victim now?

  273. I think l’ilnazidave is in a snit because GW got such warm greetings in Africa – due no small part in to his “teaching a man to fish” approach to such things as malaria (thank you eco nutz for that rise in human death….or was that your goal in the first place?)

    davy also seems to have some sort of axe to grind about jails… one of the :::snort::: abolitionists? Hey, davy, let’s let Pedro Espinoza out of jail to live with you.

  274. Fox, National Review

    That would be the sound of you shutting the fuck/a> up that I hear, yes?

  275. How’s the weather in your head today, dave? Still raining vegetables?

  276. Sorry about the broken tag, Jeff and all. The link seems to work, though.

  277. pushed the press to the right

    Oh gawd, another Pauline Kael moment.

  278. Oh gawd, another Pauline Kael moment.

    I’m still boggled that dave thinks that CBS is “right wing”.

    As I said before, apparently anything to the right of Soviet-era Pravda counts as “right wing” in dave’s head.

  279. Spies, capitalism is active in Africa…it’s just different: like poaching gorillas or something. Investment, transparancy, and fairness are needed for capitalism to florish and those are in short supply. To blame American liberals is far from the point. Japan and Korea have a society that honors a certain respect for even the lowest of individuals, the night soil man for instance will still get a little respect while in the Congo, a fifty dollar bribe to the judge will let you get off a “minor” crime like rape.

    Perhaps, a little cultural respect for African successes (where ever they are) is needed and a little investment into those successes. I am sure there are a few….Instead, USA has a record of supporting the worst of Africa: Mobotu of Zaire for example, or English support of a certain sargent in Uganda (Amin), etc.
    And Zimbabwe’s (sp?) problems have been caused much by English interference in fact as the ‘leader’ there has said but his policies are hurting too…but like Cuba it’s partly the “inside” and the “outside” that’s causing the problems.

    capitalism is everywhere so how’s that the solution? It’s the type of capitalism that’s important.

  280. Oh, shut the fuck up, dave.

  281. #

    Comment by J. on 4/27 @ 9:26 pm #

    I will cease and desist using half of “your” name when my name is legally changed. So, that will be … never. But thanks for asking.

    Ooh JD. Burn.

  282. “Now blaming “FemiNazis” for the problem is a little twisted you know. But it’s what they call ‘humor’ here.”

    Noone’s “blaming feminism” for what’s going on in the Congo you illiterate twat. I’m just pointing out that a community that claims to be centered around the welfare of women worldwide showed complete disinterest at some of the most prevalent and brutal sexual assaults on women on the entire planet. Frministe as a community actively ignores the sexual violation of thousands women in third world countries and focuses its attention on more important injustices like depictions in comic books and police shooting a violent crack dealer. And then they have the gall to toss out the term “privilege” at other people. It’s just absolutely disgusting.

  283. Spies, capitalism is active in Africa

    Sure it is, dave.

    Sure it is.

    Hint: kleptocracy and capitalism are not synonyms.

    By the way: planning to apologize to Fox News, since they were on the Congo rape story two years ago?

    Didn’t think so.

  284. sorry, for injecting factual matters. It’s the levity that’s important here. Jokeyness!

    CBS does have a blond woman or two as an Anchor so I guess that’s Liberal. Who watches that anyway?

  285. sorry, for injecting factual matters.

    Factual matters like you lying about Fox News covering the Congo rape story, you mean?

  286. Now if Anne Coulter was on Dancing with the Stars I might watch that!!!

  287. did they? when? NPR was all over it.

  288. “snce they were on the Congo rape story two years ago?

    I watch Fox over the barkeep’s head while playing Go with my drunken Repub. former workmate….and I am sure the story was played up as UN Thugs ignore Real Crimes in Africa (w/ a submessage of Blacks are sorry motherfukkers for letting this happen).

  289. UN Thugs ignore Real Crimes in Africa

    Well, then Fox was wrong

    Since UN thugs ignore real crimes everywhere

  290. did they? when? NPR was all over it.

    Dave. I gave you a friggin’ link.

    And your words were “Didn’t ever hear any report from the Right Wing press about it though”, not “I heard biased reports from the Right Wing press.”

    Hint: lying about what you said doesn’t work too well when your original post is still right there on the screen.

    Jesus Christ.

  291. #

    Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 6:47 am #

    See? I can’t even type. Who’s the victim now?

    When I laugh my balls itch. Obviously the ball-skin now sleeping sweetly in my cuticles is dead.

    Stop Alp now!

  292. Spies, the prior link was to Google, me thinks…but I’d known about this problem in Africa through just about every other ‘media’ besides Fox. So they tagged along with the rest of the media..so how’s that proof that the RightWing media ‘cares’ about Africa?

    ‘course we’re off topic as usual. I’ll take credit for another digression. Sorry!

    Darleen, we’ll just jettison the UN and let Judge Judy and the LAPD take care of things. Ok! (I think the US and the Allies dredged up the UN back in the late 40s or so and there was a reason for it….flaws and all, we’re pointing fingers at something and thus pointing them at ourselves… and the Right is all for National Sovereignty and all thus making rape ok in those Nations we must respect eh? gotcha! Yeah, which administrations kowtow to the Saudi’s the most? And what kind of nation calls itself by the ruling families name? Maybe we should just rename ourselves “Bushland”. )

  293. Spies, the prior link was to Google, me thinks

    #278, dullwit.

    I hate to repeat myself, but… Jesus Christ.

  294. Pynchon: Vineland was cassandra-like: Vines and Bushes.

  295. fuk off, bytch now, I am not going to waste my limited bandwidth at a rural location on your invitation to a linky with such inflamatory negative references…would you?

  296. Dave’s back to arguing against his imaginary enemies.

    You don’t even try to understand the positions of people who disagree with you, do you davey?

  297. would you?

    Depends on whether or not I minded making a fool of myself in public.

    Obviously it doesn’t bother you.

  298. Darleen, we’ll just jettison the UN

    Yep. There should be a United Democratic Nations … which would exclude such thugs as Iran, N Korea and China.

    The UN is currently an ok thing when it comes to organizing charitible distributions, but “peace keeping?” and “human rights”?

    It’s the anti-America, anti-Jew organization par excellent.

  299. darleen might be around. Have at her, Thor! frankly my scrotom’s getting more puckery at the thought. Downright shriveled.

    I am thinking of the walnut trees we planted last week. One is a goner already as the daughter-in-law’s pitbull pulled it out and left it on the lawn for a few days. Walnuts! Pitbulls!

  300. You can’t even spell scrotum right dave. Why…you’re no man at all.

  301. “You don’t even try to understand the positions of people who disagree with you, do you davey?”

    au contrare

    I study it! PW is a great source. And Funny too which makes it edible.

  302. Unless your ballsack is also a navigation device. If so, my apologies.

  303. “I’m just pointing out that a community that claims to be centered around the welfare of women worldwide showed complete disinterest at some of the most prevalent and brutal sexual assaults on women on the entire planet. Frministe as a community actively ignores the sexual violation of thousands women in third world countries and focuses its attention on more important injustices like depictions in comic books and police shooting a violent crack dealer. And then they have the gall to toss out the term “privilege” at other people. It’s just absolutely disgusting.”

    I have to agree there.

    Jeff, your short stories are superior to your blogposts. I would stay with the day job.

  304. he he….I don’t study scrutums. Put ‘em in soup though.

  305. BTW Sean Bell was not violent and he wasn’t a crack dealer – of that’s who you are talking about. There’s no need to confabulate to make a pint.

  306. alpo.. brilliant as usual. bows

    some sort of Colorado delicacy is heavily sexist in victimization of male sheep….? I am sure many know the name of the dish:….

    off to travels and travails…..

  307. Three things.

    First of all, thank you once agin, Jeff. This place is absolutely amazing, and as soon as I get to the bank, you will recieve some of my almost ex-wife’s money.

    Secondly. Darleen. You are a national treasure as far as I am concerned. Ah loove yoooo!(Don’t worry. I am long benched by THE manager.)

    Thirdly. On another post this morning, I asked the question: “Have I gone insane, or has this country gone insane?”

    After reading many links on this post, the answer is clear. And quite terrifying. I feel really bad for my son, who’s head is being totally stuffed with complete, absolute bullshit.

    Oh. And one more thing. Am I the only one whose computer lists to the right at the bottom of the page? I can’t see the first couple of letters when I get near the bottom.

    Is it because my AXW has the Dell, and I have the Compaq with the 555 CPU?

    Owww! That was a hard thing to admit. Having a civil war era computer is just not cool, I would have to guess.

  308. bulls: ‘oysters’, sheep: ‘sweetmeats’ just to be more accurate. lost dogs: I don’t know.

  309. take an introductory-level sociology class to help you better grasp the (too complex?) concepts of privilege, patriarchy, and hegemony.

    Taking an intro-level course taught by a Neo-Marxist and believing it says more about you than anyone else.

    Graduating from college just means you are an entry level citizen; lots of training and no real life experience to speak of.

    In the Army, we call them Second Lieutenants and they are assigned to an adult Senior NCO with usually 15-20 years real world experience and no college degree so the real learning can begin.

    But the 2LTs usually have a leg up on you J, as they took the same sociology course, got their grade and moved on, realising that it was neo-Marxist bullshit to begin with.

  310. Oh great. As if things weren’t awful enough, now we’ve got a straw crisis. Thanks a lot, dave. Straw wasting asshole.

  311. I guess I am stupid, but how does your fixation with Shannon Elizabeth and rappers/black men (with their superiorly-sized penises)wanting to rape yer white wimminz meme tie into the Amanda Marcotte (and all of that white privlege/gnashing of the teeth) book kerfluffle?

    Interesting sexfantasy choice though. Hmmm.

  312. I guess I am stupid

    That wasn’t really in any doubt, Lisa.

    Read it again. Slowly. No rape involved in Jeff’s story.

  313. black men (with their superiorly-sized penises)

    What’s your sample on the black tallywhackers Lisa?

  314. Lisa – If someone looks at a picture of LeBron and Giselle, and sees King Kong and racism, doesn’t that say more about that person than the photographer, or Republicans, or whites in general?

  315. Nevermind #315. It makes more sense after reading the Kong post. But it is still an interesting and mildly kinky fantasy.

  316. Lisa —

    I’ve answered you — and others like you — in a separate post.

  317. We still haven’t addressed the MAIN POINT, people!

    CAN assholes be racist?

  318. Pingback: In which I break character and answer a transparently loaded question about Ms Shannon Elizabeth's parodic sexual proclivities

  319. CAN assholes be racist?

    Only after they’ve been bleached.

  320. #317: I’ll never tell.

    #316: Your insistence on being hostile is long past boring. I am weary of being pleasant when you insist on being an ass in return. So, in the immortal words of Vice President Richard Cheney: Go fuck yourself.

    #318: I agree. I didn’t see what the white leftosphere saw in the Giselle/LeBraun thing. I thought it was campy and clever. I also thought the illustrations in Marcotte’s book (yes, I bought it)were campy, retro, and cool – they made me laugh. Which is why when I exhorted my fellows to chill out, I was greeted with “You just don’t know when you are being insulted because you are such a sycophant and an idiot – let us smart white girls sort this out for you”. Sigh. A bunch of foolishness all around.

    #320: Your post was enlightening. However, I think you are still naughty – and far more interesting after this unwitting little glimpse into one dark, kinky little corner of your mind. (Yeah yeah say that I am the perve all you want – it takes one to call another out).

  321. Pardon me… Is this the line for “Grey Rape?”

    I’m in kind of a hurry. My penis is double parked out front.

  322. And just a warning…DO NOT accidentially type “Femifiste” into Google. It was awful. I had to look away after 10 or 15 minutes.

  323. Lisa —

    Go through the red pills posts to get a glimpse into my mind. Those are my favorites — though others seem to like the Martha Stewart Chronicles.

  324. DO NOT accidentially type “Femifiste” into Google. It was awful.

    Typing it in deliberately seems to be safe, though. Apparently the “accidentally” part is what gets you.

  325. I swear it was accidental! I typed it in that way another three times just to make sure I didn’t do it on purpose the FIRST time. Cuz THAT would make me sexist. Scientific method dude. I learned that in an entry-level sociology course.

  326. #317: I’ll never tell.

    How mysteriously dirty. I love it.

  327. I don’t get it… why is this funny? The majority of the post describes in detail the sex angle, which seems to be the point (plucking my nipples like a banjo), rather than saying anything about white privilege.

    Did you masturbate before, during, or after writing this?

  328. Actually, I didn’t masturbate at all until just now, reading your comment. Seething, sympathetic Alda/Donahue male anger at my oppressiveness gets me all HAWT, Miguel.

    As to why it is or isn’t funny…well, let me remind you that “Will and Grace” remained on the air for years. But, in case you haven’t been following along, I’ve already answered your questions here.

  329. Miguel doesn’t get it. Ohnoes. Get me rewrite. Shit I forgot my bee pollen.

  330. “Shannon Elizabeth comments on “white privilege” as it obtains in feminist circles”

    I think the word you meant was “pertains”, not “obtains”. Try harder, dude.

  331. It was Migwell’s nips that were being strummed? That’s out of the blue.

  332. I’m throwin’ a tarp over myself for this one…….

  333. Yeesh! You bring teh funnee. You defend teh funnee. You explain teh funnee.

    What more can a misogynist do?

    AUTHENTICATE THE OUTRAGE!

  334. The discussion has changed pages, Miguel. Do keep up.

    Also, “pertains to”; “obtains in”.

    I’d tell you to “try harder” yourself, “dude,” but I suspect you’ve already peaked.

  335. See? No Miquel on my new cargo shorts. God bless you tarp.

  336. Lay off of Miguel. I think he may be ronery.

    Perhaps he’ll “obtain” some soon…

  337. And then I miss even more of the fun – although “fun” in this case seems to consist entirely of datadave (as usual), Lisa and possibly others flinging dumbass made-up accusations and then dodging the subject.

    Oh, and Lisa, you walked in swinging, you do NOT get to claim victim status.

  338. I don’t get it… why is this funny?

    If you have to ask, you’ll never know. Funky motherfucker will not be told to go oh oh oh.

  339. #341: Who is claiming victim? I won’t even ask you to try to support that fat whore of a lie because it would bore me.

  340. Yes, I have noticed that I am using the word ‘whore’ a lot.

  341. Who is claiming victim?

    That would be you, Lisa.

    Can you reconcile this:

    Your insistence on being hostile is long past boring. I am weary of being pleasant

    With this:

    how does your fixation with Shannon Elizabeth and rappers/black men (with their superiorly-sized penises)wanting to rape yer white wimminz meme

    Clearly this is some new usage of the word “pleasant” with which I was previously unfamilar.

  342. so many victims, not enough hours

  343. so many victims, not enough hours

    or data.

  344. The English Language has a particular usage – the Pale is the part of Ireland that comprises Dublin and the adjacent territory, which constituted the centre of British rule. Within that area British rule was strongest, outside it was comparatively weak. The phrase should be understood in the context of the forced Anglicisation of that country. It was common practice in Ireland to allow the Protestants to live within the city walls but restrict the rights of Catholics. They were forced to live beyond the Pale. Literally in the case of Dublin. To say that someone was beyond the pale would mean that they lived beyond civilised society.

    Please note that this, so far from being evidence that the term is not racist, is pure evidence that it was: it was a deliberate targetting of a distinct ethnic group, and part of a pattern that produced horrific suffering.

    (How horrific? Well, for a small dose, go read “A Modest Proposal” and try to think what that satirized.)

  345. Is that Scott Eric? That sounds like Scott Eric.

  346. I just got up off the ground. My swivel chair still spinnin’ too fast to touch it.

    How amazing this one two punch:

    Q. CAN assholes be racist? [mojo]

    A. Only after they’ve been bleached. [McGhee]

    CHOPE!!©

  347. What kind of product do you use to bleach your asshole? I keep hearing about this phenomenon. But I just don’t get it. Skin bleach for your average skin discoloration is pretty acidic and stings pretty good when applied to the face, arms, or legs. Applying this to your asshole would probably feel like you just shit out an angry hive of Africanized bees.

  348. Whipped cream. Just leave a little bit when you’re done and let it dry.

  349. Jeffy, you should go on the road with your act – you’ve got some great jokes. I think you should start by signing up to speak at this place: http://www.safehouse-denver.org/

    They’d love you there!

  350. Yeah! Because Shannon Elizabeth getting drunk and agreeing to sex with a couple of cynical guys out of guilt over her white privilege is, like, exactly the same as being raped or beaten by your spouse!

    Hell, it must be rape, right? I mean, black men were involved with a white woman — which is so very Kong-like.

    THEY CALL ME MISTER TIBBS!

    At any rate, you’re commenting on a thread that’s three pages deep. If you want to comment on this, the follow-up thread is here.

  351. “bring the entire western world to ruin for want of oxygen”

    is that a bad thing?

  352. But trust me: this ain’t a fight you want to pick, judging by the boilerplate you’ve tossed off so far. I’ve tangled with the kinds of people you likely quote on these topics, and I have been able to more than hold my own.

    Again, if you can’t figure out the way the Marcotte dustup maps onto my Shannon Elizabeth bit, you aren’t smart enough to be reading here. Or, to put it in terms you might understand, you aren’t so much a critical thinker as a critic who substitutes rote dogma for actual thinking, the result of which is casual dismissal, vague references to books you may have read, misrepresentions of the intent of your interlocutor, and finally — and inevitably — ad hominem labeling you trot out to silence those who marvel at the vacuity of your positions, particularly if you call yourself a “liberal.”

    I enjoy how this thread is like 95% telling people what shrill bitches they are for pointing out that you’re a racist and claiming you would win the inevitable debate and 0% actually making whatever argument in that debate. The other 5% is just you being a racist which is kind of surprising in that it got overwhelmed so quickly by the other bit.

    I like Jill. But in my post, Ms Elizabeth gave consent (”So I ended up letting them…”).

    As she was in the process of being raped (‘explaining why it wasn’t cool for them to pin me down’). You’re not good at this whole reading-comprehension thing, are you?

  353. Which is kind of sad considering you wrote it, but I guess there’s no license required to use a keyboard.

  354. It’s also kind of funny that you’re claiming your fictional Elizabeth “consented” when the passage actually reads like she just sort of stopped struggling, but I suppose that’s not a distinction you actually make, is it Jeff?

  355. I had what we sisters like to call an epiphany — namely, that I was being unfair to my Black brothers, holding back the fruits of my white privilege from the victim class like that, even if I was doing so out of, like, primal revulsion rather than out of some sort of overt and conscious racial animus.

    Reading is fundamental, dan. You should try it.

  356. Yes, dan. I’m a racist. Unless I had replaced Wayans and Method Man with white Duke Lacrosse players, and Shannon Elizabeth with a stoned Black hooker. In which case I’d just be speaking TRUTH TO POWER and highlighting WHITE MALE PRIVILEGE.

    But you keep looking out for the Black Folk and the womyn, dan. Without you, they’d probably never know what to get offended by. Which is why, you know, you like to keep them on the plantation. For their own good and all.

  357. Pingback: appletree » Blog Archive » I’m so looking forward to seeing what the racist assholes will come up with between now and November

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