I didn’t explain the “blog grammar” thing very well, but it goes beyond idiom, I think.
That’s what I get for not using note cards.
If you’ve ever read, say, Gravity’s Rainbow or Foucault’s Pendulum, you’ll note that the first fifty or so pages are incredibly slow going and, from a purely passive reading level, difficult to get through. The reason is, I think, that both Pynchon and Eco are actually taking that oppornunity not only to provide narrative exposition, but instead are interested in teaching you how to read the text: they are introducing you to the peculiar grammar of the work — the way it operates linguistically, the way connections are made in that narrative universe, the way temporality will be approached and approximated, the way movement in point of view will be signaled, etc.
In short, the text becomes more than just about its content: it is a primer on how to read it.
In many ways this is true of all texts — the difference being that most texts will stick to established conventions and / or point their readers directly toward any kind of conventional deviation so that the reader isn’t forced to work too hard at decoding it.
Whereas with GR or FP or (and this was my point) pw, you are really forced to work at learning how to read the text on its own non-conventional terms with little (evident) help. Instead, you become accustomed to the cadences, the way referents work, the backstory, etc.,by having immersed yourself in the grammar of the text/site (I would put some of DeLillo in this category as well, and, if we want to go back, Don Quijote or Tristram Shandy would fit, too).
And having done so, you feel a sense of belonging with it.
I have always described my site as a kind of cult site, though I’ve never described my readers as cultists. They tend, on the whole, to be extraordinarily bright and literate, and possess the kind of intellectual curiosity necessary to put up with some of the barrage of in-jokes, non-sequiturs, and strange content that makes pw so different from more conventional “political” blogs. Sure, many of the posts stand on their own. But many more (red pills, armadillo, conceptual series, etc) require of the reader either some previous familiarity or else a willingness to take the leap and enter in medias res, as it were. And they are never given an expository frame — nor do I explain the jokes, such as they are.
I try to attract those readers willing to take the leap or invest the time.
And of course, I in turn reward your loyalty and determination by disappearing for months at a time.
I’m like Kaufman that way. Suckers!
You were a lot tactful about what you chose to say about McCain I thought, but you ended up saying more and more nicer things about Paul. You didn’t exactly plan it I know. But I don’t like living in a world where things like that happen. Not very much anyway.
It wasn’t supposed to be like this.
I was afraid the guy might have a gun, hf.
Meanwhile, I’ve been undermining the brand by selling these on Ebay.
I actually looked into getting those made, Sarah. I wanted to give them out to people who hit me up during fundraisers.
Turns out that I don’t live in China, though.
I’m still open to manufacturing ideas.
And of course, I in turn reward your loyalty and determination by disappearing for months at a time.
Beat me, whip me, make me write bad checks.
Nuance.
It’s what’s for dinner.
I should have stood up. So that Geordie LaForge of British Columbia could have seen my pecs.
Snap this, bitch.
We’re mostly optimists, I guess. Someday the ‘dillo will dance.
I’m like Kaufman that way. Suckers!
You’re funnier than Kaufman. The parallels with the wrestling and the shaved head are a bit uncanny though.
I’ve about given up on trying to figure out what the fuck you’re talking about most of the time. The little nuggets, when you do happen upon them, and that’s not neccessarily a Shannon Elizabeth’s nipples reference, are usually worth the time that you spent wandering through the fog. Look forward to your next appearance in two to three weeks.
And dude…….grow back your hair, grasshopper.
Beginning to wonder if I was gonna have to round up some prairie dogs to dig you out from under. (Does this mean that ending sentences with a preposition is now de rigueur, or only when said sentence begins with a gerund?)
“I try to attract those readers willing to take the leap or invest the time.”
Good for you!
He’s a lot like Racer X like that where he’s real mysterious except for we know his real identity and he doesn’t drive car number nine or even any racecars at all instead he has a double life as a student of MMA and also blogging about MMA until he had a falling out with Geordie LaForge of British Columbia et. al. and also John McCain and he left the Protein Wisdom and vowed he’d become an MMA force but he always returns when he is needed and a lot keeps a watchful eye so no one will crash-em-up and no you won’t find an incongruous but highly expressive monkey but there is an a lot depraved armadillo about what maybe could dance you never know.
The patriarchy not satisfied by the infinitely deferred armadillo dance.
I attempted to plant a 30 pound Dasypus counter-intelligence agent in your home ages ago, Jeff. After your randy -dillo had his way with her on one of his Thursday night binges, she repaired her shell with Bondo and floated belly-up down the Colorado toward Mexico, still tripping on the peyote buttons she rooted out of your sofa. GiGi went down to Juarez to do an intervention and got his ass kicked, again, by her new pimp. Damn, I tell you, JG, bad help is worse than no help at all.
Anyway, thanks for the company along the journey, the imagery shared, the intelligence displayed, for the humor and the joy. God bless you and yours. Shiny side up, friend.
And of course, I in turn reward your loyalty and determination by disappearing for months at a time.
OTOH, those of us who help make this a cult-like site also know why (or in my case, think I know why) you’ve disappeared for months at a time. You need to do what you have to do and you’ve acquired some fascinating alternatives in your stead.
There are times tho’ when wonder if that armadillo character isn’t really the Karl Rove/Dick Cheney-like master of this site and Jeff isn’t just Dubya.
nor do I explain the jokes, such as they are
Definitely not a bug. Fully self contained jokes are the province of your typical comedian/entertainer and well, that’s what Holiday Inns are for.
I guess that explains why I only got through p49 of Gravity’s Rainbow.
And like Joyce’s Ulysses, except I don’t recall an armadillo in it.
For the rest of us, we pretend like we have understanding and insight, which causes us to giggle uncontrollably and spill beverages. Then, in the full, harsh sunlight of self realization, we curl up into the fetal position and sob miserably for days.
Then we have pie.
INTENTIONALISM! OUR DEPRESSION! OUT LIVES!!!
Frankly, Jeff, I just don’t think you have the right head shape for the bald look. Maybe if you gained 20-30 lbs, but even then…
Nah.
Hell, I don’t know what Jeff’s talking about half the time, but I do know that I think dillo’s are cool, little red pills are fun, single malt scotch is fantastic and I agree with pretty much 99% of the political/sociological stuff that I do understand. Plus the commenters are top notch. I learn stuff in here all the time. His trolls are seriously lacking though.
pw 2.0: The Second Coming. Perhaps before the better known one.
My wife likes the short hair, merovign. And I like the quick showers and the quick dry time after working out.
Plus, I think my head shape is SUPER. The glasses, on the other hand, don’t go with the look — that’s a given. But had I taken them off, I wouldn’t have been able to slay the Ron Paul fanatic with my steely gaze. Because frankly, I wouldn’t have been able to see him.
Next fundraiser here? Lasik.
Science fiction does that a lot, frequently poorly. In some pieces, you have to learn quite early what a zgprhtron is and why it is dangerous in the tentacles of a ssszsgh from the Plormm Empire.
AS one of the few people I know who have read the complete work, “Satanic Verses”, I’m often asked to lend that work to folks who suggest they are interested in reading it.
I won’t lend my copy to anyone, unless they first read “Giles, Goat-Boy”.
Say what you will about John Barth, making the switch in metaphores is easier if you have some type of grounding into the meaning of goat in American literature. Without it, the metaphores utilized by Rushdie will leave you gasping for meaning.
It is a great read. It’s just not for the casual reader. Or, for the reader who comes to a gunfight with a knife.
Did someone say.. Pie!?
– They come for the nipples, but they stay for the pie!
Sorry, Jeff, but Racheal Lucas still looks better.
AND she’s got all her hair.
happyfeet: Thanks for that Speed Racer riff. Made my day.
Ushie, the armadillos in Ulysses are of the implied, stream-of-consciousness variant.
And they smell vaguely of Mrs. Joyce’s unwashed panties.
“What happens to a ‘dillo dance deferred”?
I, for one, enjoy being a Delta-Minus in Jeff’s brave new world. I’ll read Eco, just don’t ask me to read Russian novels.
You must have missed the HBO “Behind The Scenes” documentary. They were practically beating the armored little fuckers out of the way with croquet mallets…
In between the fanciful prose, I mean.
On the one hand, I’m honored that a Jeff post originated as a comment on my blog, and that it links back to same.
But I was really hoping the “real” post here at PW would have added value. Like, say, an aside from the Quaker Oats guy or a walk-on by a dolphin in a pea coat.
‘Cause, you know, there’s a price of admission here, whereas at my blog, not so much.
And of course, I in turn reward your loyalty and determination by disappearing for months at a time.
I’m like Kaufman that way. Suckers!
You left the key to the liquor cabinet when you left.
Should’ve thought about that, smarty-pants!
The best thing about virtual liquor? Is that I can conjure up a whole lot more whenever I need it.
Plus, my largesse makes me look like a prince.
SUCKERS!
Jesus Christ, I wish you were at my wedding reception.
Yeah, but you should what datadave did to the vitrual carpet in the master bedroom…
Look, nishi’s under ther kitchen sink and won’t come out, she keeps keening someting about neotheocons and throws brillo pads at Dan when he walks by, happyfeet is dancing…something like an obscene macarena on the coffee table, and Semanticleo is carving his name in the wall using the dillo’s armored snout. Don’t worry too much about the little guy, the dillo passed out a week ago and not even a round of basement curling woke him up.
Do you want us to just torch the place when we leave? It may be easier explaining that to the virtual insurance company.
Jeff G – It cannot be said enough how much we, and I do presume to speak for the vast majority of us knuckle draggers, appreciate what you have created.
Jeff:
Because I am just such a knuckle dragger, I will merely second what JD said. I sincerely enjoy my time here in the community you developed.
…and bald head notwithstanding, a fine job on the panel. I think I heard the Paul-bot’s voice quiver when you flexed your biceps.
I mostly come to PW because it’s the closest I can get to reliving the first time I read the back of Dylan’s Highway 61 LP.
And also because one day I might find Flannery O’Connor here, God bless her soul.
I’d like to think Flannery would love this place.
Probably even more so if I had a glass eye or a club foot, but still.
Hmmmm.
“I’m like Kaufman that way. Suckers!”
Kafka?
Latka.
I’ve read Eco. PW is “Dick and Jane Go A’Snorkelin'” compared to Eco.
And a hell of a lot more entertaining.
Damn I’m dense. I didn’t think the first 50 pages of Foucault’s Pendulum was all that slow going. Now I’m afraid I missed something. I recall the beginning being the outer story within a story, a guy dying so finally must tell his tale lest it perish with him, and me thinking, “Well good, telescoping stories, we’re off to a good start.” Nor the first 50 or so of Dune where you’re expected to learn a whole new vocabulary. Nor the first 50 or so pages of Ancient Evenings devoted entirely to the mystical experience of a ka which would be a portion of dead person’s soul, and comprising the outer story around a story around a story around another story around a series of stories having to do with a unique form of reincarnation that enabled the point of view to shift from one character to another. Compared to that, PW is cake. But I did miss that in Foucault’s Pendulum, all I saw were Knights Templar, Rosicrucians and various secret societies. I kept waiting for the pendulum. Now I must return to Eco and try to pay better attention. I only read it because I liked Name of the Rose.
BECAUSE OF THE PIE!!
If you’d already read Name of the Rose, you were probably more prepared than most. Eco’d already gained your trust; plus, you knew what you were in for, and that the payoff was likely worth the (seemingly extraneous) narrative encumberances.
Hmm, the first 50 pages of Foucault’s Pendulum are interesting and promising enough that I eagerly kept reading (5 times over, so far). The first 25 or 30 pages of Rainbow were so dull and the writing so annoying I chucked the book out. Big difference.
I’m reminded of the intercalary chapters in the Grapes of Wrath…
All I know is, if I don’t keep coming back here, I’ll end up living in a plywood shack in the wilderness, eating raw squirrel and writing off-color fortune-cookie fortunes.
And a big mistake on your part.
I’ve read FP four or five times (maybe more, can’t remember; did a long paper on it in grad school). Great book.
But GR is one of the greatest novels ever written.
Sorry if you disagree with the examples I chose. I really didn’t think even something so mundane as that would turn into a pissing match. Read what you want. I honestly have nothing left to say that’s fit for public consumption.
Adieu.Ciao.Slothrop out.
I keep coming back, because it keeps reminding me of my carefree college days gulping down tequila and indulging in just about every drug that came my way…..all the while staying up all night at Ship’s making toast and pontificating on current events and pop culture.
It is a depressing thing indeed to be a pygmy clustered together with thousands of others, hundreds of thousands, and have to live on the other side of all of this.
Oh, and Jeff…Instalaunche!
I came here from work, every Friday for weeks and months, for the dillo. After the first Friday, I knew he would never dance. But I kept coming back to see why he would not dance every Friday.
Then he did dance, and I was appalled, repelled, disgusted and dirtied by it.
This, I think, is exactly the double whammy you are looking to give your readers, Jeff.
So thanks, I guess. Or maybe congratulations. But you are definitely to be read with care.
Whereas with GR or FP or (and this was my point) pw, you are really forced to work at learning how to read the text on its own non-conventional terms with little apparent help. Instead, you become accustomed to the cadences, the way referents work, the backstory, etc.,by having immersed yourself in the grammar of the text/site (I would put some of DeLillo in this category as well, and, if we want to go back, Don Quijote or Tristram Shandy would fit, too).
And having done so, you feel a sense of belonging with it.
And then some. It’s almost like being part of a secret society.
Well, sort of…
;^)
I think you forgot “spawned syncophantic memes” somewhere in there…
Well, to be honest with you MC, I’m hoping that when the history of the blogosphere is written, some honest academic will give me some credit for opening up certain unconventional creative doors.
Either that, or slip me a $20 in exchange for pretending that, say, tbogg introduced it.
Enjoyed Dune, FP, Name of the Rose. Tim Powers has written 3-4 that read like that. Trust him, he’s fun. So was Lord of Light (and another called, I think, Names of the Dead) by Roger Zelazny. OTOH, I forced my way through Samuel R (Don’t call me Chip anymore) Delaney’s Dhalgren, believing that he’d pay off in the end. Ha! I threw the damn book into the wall, vowing to never again put a single cent in his coffers, and I haven’t. I think the difference is that there has to be a payoff — a story, a set of new thoughts, something. Delaney played Kaufmann and essentially stuck his tongue (or whatever) out at his readers. I may be a sucker, but once is enough.
If I stick out my tongue, you’ll feel it, JorgXMcKie.
Like a Viking lollipop.
A Viking, what..?
LOL!
I want to be a fly on the wall when that honest academic excavates PW! Just for the EYE-POPPINGNESS! There’s more creative ooze to nozzle than an excavates assemblage in semiotic glory to be found round here…
I think Tbogg’s meme is more like endocytosis. But that’s just me.
Nothing can atone for PW. Evil hearts. Dark hands. Rubber dillos. One day Eysenck’s factor analysis will be done on each one the regulars here and, I foresee, results non-too-kind.
HELTER SKELTER!
You’re the master of ceremony to a recurring parade of evil quipsters! The studious will be mono-syllabicating the magnificence of you future bronze-casted testis. “Big!” “Huge!” “Look at those Rompers!”
That’s interesting. A reinvention of a salon culture almost is what this reads like to me. It’s almost like it’s a really unfortunate way to articulate that idea though cause of the connotations. But still. I like the reinvention part.
It’s almost like if you start saying it out loud you might could ruin it though. Maybe better it is what it is.
Still. That said and all I would really like to see at least the guest posters put a little more energy into developing The Pub. There’s a lot of good stuff in there what gets overlooked I think, and I think in terms of the structural elements of however you want to conceptualize this creation, the pub thing is I think potentially a really nice part of the opening up certain unconventional creative doors aspect.
Hap, you’re big down there too. A “shhh,” won’t work. Your word waddle leaves no room for doubt.
God Bless your smarm.
Thank you, mostly, but that’s a lot why you like cynn so much too I think. I like her too. But mostly everybody’s big down there on the Internet. It’s really neat like that I think.
I love it when you guys act like you act.
You don’t think I know, but I do. More of the Kaufman part of my being. Play, play, play.
I’d point at comment 41 but that would be a lot smarmy I think.
H-Feet, cynn’s are so very big, even when you disagree with her you have to back-up and watch your feet.
Yes, she’s a thing. She admitted to having a taste for Celine. I will drop my pants for any woman who can understands Celine and Funyuns.
Jeff, who the hell is acting? God wired me bad. And I’m not afraid to admit it.
Oh, come on. You’re just teasing the leftards by saying there’s a special grammar for reading this site. Now they’re going to tell us, ad inifinitum, that every joke is a racist homophobe joke, that they just haven’t figured it out, but they have the equivalent of Bletchley Park working on the translation.
Jeff, you magnificent troll-screwing bastard! I read your blog!
So, wait, Joyce wrote the first Scratch’n’Sniff novel?
Once again, everything cool happens wile I’m away. On the other hand, the new adderol prescription might help me finally get through Pynchon. Then again, it might make my non-sequiters less non-seqiterry. On the other, other hand it might make my hey, wanna go ride bikes?
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When I watch a bit of Shakespeare on TV, I ususally let it run for 15 minutes or so and then restart. That’s what it takes to rewire by ear/brain interface so I can enjoy the play.
I’ve never had that issue here. This site made perfect sense from day one. I’m twisted, that way.
Takes the reader a while to catch on to Burgess’ “A Clockwork Orange”, too. Weird mix of distorted Russkie, Japanese and/or Chinese and Brit rhyming slang.
The disgusting old commie poofter.
Ok, Jeff. I’ll give Gravity’s Rainbow 51 pages. NOT ONE PAGE MORE. If it doesn’t “take” this time, is there some place I can send my copy? A special home for unappreciated books or something. Because right now, it just stares at me from the shelf. Calling me a failure and other nasty names.
50 pages was an approximation. It could be it takes more like, say, 600?
I’ll second the Ulysses comparison, but I hope you don’t veer into anything like the chapter that’s written like a play. I gave that chapter a good portion of my unrecoverable youth, and I don’t feel as though I was the least bit rewarded for my sacrifice. In fact, all I seem to have gotten from it was the ability to make this comment. Balls.
Well, shit Jeff, my copy only has 760 pages. You know what, I’ll give it 100. After that I make no promises.
Roger Zelazny’s two new wave classics are ‘Lord of Light’ and ‘Creatures of Light and Darkness.’ Creatures of Light and Darkness has one of everyone’s favorite passages, ripped off in various ways by thousands of comedians, the ‘Possibly Proper Death Litany.’ Easily findable through google-fu.
I thought it was supposed to be the online version of Seinfeld. There is no point, but sometimes amusing things happen. Trolls get stoned, and all feels right with the world.
If it were any better, I wouldn’t be thinking about $3.00 a gallon gas with nostalgia.
Huh.
I read Foucault’s Pendulum before Name of the Rose and found it hardly a chore at all.
Now Tropic of Cancer on the other hand, was red-wine-hangover pain.
With Foucault’s Pendulum (and it’s been a while, so forgive me if I’m misremembering), there is quite a bit of historical and linguistic digression. In fact, part of the novel’s function, it seems to me, is to throw obstacles in the way of the reader: Eco will move between languages, without providing translation; he’ll reference obscure texts; he’ll intersperse strange temporal shifts in narrative time (when I first wrote on this, I believe I approached it from a narratological perspective).
But far from being some erudite showoff, Eco I think uses those ploys enrich his text, which, on at least some level, is about the inherent untrustworthiness of textuality. Digressions, obscure references (many of which Eco knows will slip past even his most well-read readers), darting about in narrative time and story time — all of these things perform the obstacles to textuality itself that reminds you that second-order communication is anything but an imperfect semiotic endeavor.
Or, to put it in simpler terms, he intends these devices and maneuvers to help make his larger point in a way the reader can literally experience.