Rasmussen Reports posts some videos of “dial sessions” for the latest ad Al Gore & Co. have produced about fighting global warming. It plays well with the young and Democrats, mediocre with Independents, and not too well with anyone else.
Personally, while I would be among those who do not see fighting global warming as akin to the Normandy invasion, the civil rights movement or the moon landing, this ad probably tests better than the upcoming ad featuring Gore with the Rev. Al Sharpton and the Rev. Pat Robertson — which will probably do more for global warming skeptics than the UN announcing the world is cooling.
Perhaps it is the the dark irony of Gore spending 300 million dollars on an AGW PR campaign while paying all of his personal carbon offsets to the company he owns.
Or…
Maybe people are starting to catch on to the idea that Gore is a self serving propagandist and AGW profiteer who will say anything to promote his cause and himself.
or not…
don’t get me started. I have to work today. OOOOOOMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Apparently you’re as touchy about the AGW religion as nishi is about hers.
don’t get me started. I have to work today. OOOOOOMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Yeah, that’s it, dave. Just ignore reality. It’s worked for you for what, 40 years now, right?
These ads aren’t for us. Like the corporate image spots on the Sunday shows, they’re for the guests and their peers. Ads on the news are messages to “newsmakers.”
“Al Gore & Co.” will get
theiryour money back a millionfold. Ask ADM.I really don’t know where you all get this global cooling crap? Like because the oceans are getting cooler but they’re getting higher. OMG…except I don’t believe in G. How dumb can you get. It’s like this: melt and chop up the ice of the glaciers with higher air and land temps.. and you’ll get a temp. cooling of the oceans and higher sea levels at the same time. If the earth was cooling as you say..you’d get lower sea elevations and stable temps. of the ocean. But that’s arm chair conjecture….but more thinking than I’ve seen the “denial-ists” showing.
Selective data-mining of the Right is getting a little nauseating. Listen, I don’t have any irons in the fire here but note that something’s changing in the environment…as I’ve got summer outside now after having week ago winter. AS I’ve noted winter seasons have consistantly gotten shorter while co2 rising consistantly. Your data isn’t even on the map except at HOT AIR and other Political sites? whoa.
Tonight I expect some data when I come back.
Damn, I need to know when I can take off my snow tires!
What dave? No time to chant the Goronic credo of AGW. complete with with soaking wet and forlorn polar bears, penguins desperately trying to build up their nests to avoid the melting glacier flood and bright, colorfull graphics of Florida inundated by rising oceans that aren’t either rising or warming?
Shame…
My bad and right on schedule.
I really don’t know where you all get this global cooling crap?… Tonight I expect some data when I come back.
Here you go, Skippy.
Oh, right: The UK Hadley Climate Research Unit, the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, the University of Alabama, Huntsville, and Remote Sensing Systems are all right-wing front organizations.
The wheels are coming off this one, dave. Time to invent a new “ecological crisis”.
It’s just like putting more crushed ice in your daquiri! But you’re only adding a small fraction of one percent of ice to the daquiri, so it’s going to be almost completely uncooled. Plus, generally what gets melted is sea ice, which is only a dozen or so cubic kilometers, or 0.001% of the volume of the rest of the ocean. But that’s data, dave, and I know you don’t care for that sort of thing.
Seriously, this isn’t a contradiction of AGW. AGW doesn’t say, necessarily, that you get monotonically increasing temperature over time. It just means that things in aggregate warm up over a long period of time. There could (and will, most likely) be cooling cycles even in Al Gore’s 20-foot-sea-level-rise fantasy scenario.
I’d take a wait and see approach, but I’m wait-and-see about pretty much everything.
AGW doesn’t say, necessarily, that you get monotonically increasing temperature over time.
True enough. But that doesn’t stop Chicken Littles like dave from screeching every time there’s an unusually muggy day in August.
dataless dave; for your perusal:
notice the lack of the word denial in that last part dave. Nuance! Perhaps those using computer climatic projections (those same who cannot offer areasonably accurate guess to next week’s weather) are not to be taken as straight line data after all.
BTW: As to shortening seasons, google orbital declination.
Nuance: The other white meat!
I don’t have any irons in the fire here but note that something’s changing in the environment
You are a full-on AGW proponent. Maybe that something changing in the environment is Mother Nature, like she has been doing since the beginning of time.
Perhaps those using computer climatic projections (those same who cannot offer areasonably accurate guess to next week’s weather) are not to be taken as straight line data after all.
Come on, BJ. That just makes too much damn sense. Eat a bucket of shrooms, chew a few pages of blotter, write a screed about how Jimmah won the Cold War, and how Bush is a dictator, and then maybe you could understand how dd’s perspective will never be changed by anything like logic, common sense, or those annoying little facts.
And yet there it is, the word “data” in his name.
Curious…
And yet there it is, the word “data†in his name.
He thinks “data” is the plural of “anecdote”, or perhaps “lie”.
It’s called “spring”. Happens every year.
IT’S A CO2 REFLECTIVE BLOW! RUN FOR YOUR LIIIIIIIIFE!!!11eleventy11!!
He thinks “data†is the plural of “anecdoteâ€Â, or perhaps “lieâ€Â.
Classic !
It’s called “springâ€Â. Happens every year.
Wrong. It is global climate change. Weather never happened in the Midwest prior to AGW. The old saying that if you do not like the weather in Spring, wait 15 minutes and it will change, was bupkus. Freezing on Friday night and 70’s on Saturday afternoon could only happen because of people, specifically, white conservative men.
IT’S A CO2 REFLECTIVE BLOW! RUN FOR YOUR LIIIIIIIIFE!!!11eleventy11!!
Good one.
So, a sort of mutually assured destruction of wrongness? Ok, then.
I elect to attempt some sense, myself. I mean, I get the fight-fire-with-fire idea, but sometimes you have to stop and grab a fire extinguisher.
He thinks “data†is the plural of “anecdoteâ€Â,
Not original with me, let me hasten to add. A quick Google seems to attribute it to Raymond Wolfinger.
The History Channel had another global warming crisis show on the other night. They ran around the idea that Volcanoes flooded the earth with CO2, which killed off everything (yet here we are). The next giant leap, was mankind doing the same thing as the volcano. Except, I recall being told that Volcano’s contributed no where near the CO2 that mankind does….. So, we should ignore them and focus on ourselves and our repentance.
I think what fascinates me the most is not the left’s support of an “environmental movement”, but, the fact that said movement is a facade to justify the agenda of big business (cap and trade).
Who would have thought the left would be a tool for big business?
At 385 parts per million I think we are a long way from CO suffocating animal life earth.
I can’t find a link at first pass but I remember reading about a a year ago that one major volcanic eruption produces enough greenhouse gasses (yes, plural as CO2 isn’t the only greenhouse gas) equal to the annual output of the entire human population and its industrial and agricultural infrastructure.
My memory may be faulty so I’ll gladly take it on the chin if my “data” is flawed.
So, a sort of mutually assured destruction of wrongness? Ok, then.
Not at all. When the AGW-touters are working with a data set about one century long, a ten year period with no significant warming starts suggest that their models are wrong. Sure, a one year increase (or decrease) doesn’t show much, but ten years in a row starts to look like a trend.
Look you stupid assholes, you don’t know the difference between climate change and weather, do you?
The earth has been at stable temps since 1998, cooling since ’02. That’s *weather* and you should ignore it because it does nothing to affect *climate*. The *climate* involves the atmosphere. Statism is in the atmosphere, and statists sense that this is perhaps the biggest opportunity for a huge power grab since 1933, or perhaps since 1917. We need to do something drastic to society, immediately – if not due to climate change, then due to something else, such as global trade, the fact that the poor are poorer than the wealthy, children who get hurt by eating their toys, or that being gay is the new black. How can you just sit there, not recognizing the fundamental changes all of society needs? We are the new hope we’ve been waiting for. Etc.
Your insisting that cooling temperatures dont constitute global warming… er, climate change, is simply perfidious right wingnuttery. Clearly, you don’t understand the current climate at all.
Al: You are right. I shall, hence forth, lash my self to a spit and roast my self at ever increasing temperatures to show solidarity with teh
statistsglobal warmingclimate change justice earth savers!OW!!
Let’s just cut to the chase. Make me emperor of everything, and I’ll save the planet every day before breakfast.
All I’ll ask in return is everyone’s unquestioning obedience.
Especially Shannon Elizabeth’s.
Spies et al: I am still waiting..that was a politicized debate at your “skippy” link but most of that data showed significantly higher temps during the 2000s over the 1990s. And reading the debate in the comments…the only political statements were from the Conservative Anti-Gore faction.. (who said I liked Gore, he’s a wooden as they come but being for the environment even if only for political purposes isn’t bad…since the mainstream is pretty much antiEnvironmentalist: CATO institute, WSJ, etc. and even NYTimes much of the time with a bias against environmental “extremists” if anything (Gina Kolata, ironically said to be sister of Judi Bari and seems reactionary towards her late sister’s politics? EarthFirster blown up by a terrorist’s bomb and survived . The only evidence you’ve shown is an anomaly of this Winter which actually wasn’t very cold either from a historic perspective in the NE USA…whatever happened to those minus 20 days weeks of them in the past?
You guys only go to the most selectively politically correct data (in your views places for data) so far.
Actually, scientifically the proper word for the discussion and investigation and reasoning for worry (due to the effects upon an historically and prehistorically Unnatural large population of humans on the Earth) is Climate Change
the debate is weather it’ll drastically effect humans and nature or not. Please note that Wikipedia is under erudite editorial cleansing from either side of the debate, scientifically and politically so it’s been very neutral and honed to reduce bias and they are citing the Unnatural growth of greenhouse gases as never before seen in humankind’s existance (last few million of so years) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change
my concern is that climate change happens like shit happens…but extreme variation would make your worries about minor terrorism (9/11 for example) look like minor problems. The Human variable is important; rising sea levels which is incontestably happening (despite your ridiculous head in sand refusal to look at the data) just by itself could cause radical discomfort that’d make Baghdad and terrorism look relatively fun in comparison…. But I agree we don’t Know the data completely…but you’re saying Don’t worry about as we Rightwingers know you Leftwing Enviromentalists are commies in green trying to make this ‘minor’ issue into a reason to have Communism and One World Govt. and it’s all Politically correctness. That’s a pretty accurate description of what I am reading in the comments here. Slart not included, as being agnostic.
I hope there isn’t a problem, and gas prices won’t go up as my life will be less comfortable too. But the science seems to support the fears of many deep thinkers about the environment which conflicts with some who fear that such knowledge will effect their bottom line which is why the Cato Institute and Heartland has been funded by major polluters in the last decades to lead the charge Against environmental investigation into polluter’s negative effects upon the environment.
blah, blah, I can imagine the responses….your car and pleasure depends on pollution and let’s not restrain profits and more energy production…blah, blah, but the environmentalists do you a favor in making our air cleaner and products safer… And there is a balance between left (pro environmentalists thanks to Reagan et al…pushing it to the ‘left’) and right (profit and innovation to improve production with less energy inputs and pollution. But if you like more pollution and unrestrained co2 spewing…move to China perhaps.
don’t get me started. I have to work today.
I’d really like to really know what kind of “work” people like data, nishi, and sashal do. Any bets?
But if there isn’t, you want to cause a worse one.
But if you like more pollution and unrestrained co2 spewing…move to China perhaps.
Right, and doing it with the ipcc’s implicit blessing, to boot – and which also shows that the ipcc does not even believe its own AGW “science”, including the “disaster” part.
ah, that’s my lunch break…later buddies. More links please.
or you can talk to the bright guys over at RealClimate
please take Nishi along for a date
historically and prehistorically Unnatural
Total bullshit. The Earth has been much warmer than it is now in many past eras. It’s been much colder, too.
As expected, when presented with data you dismiss it as politically motivated.
You’re not interested in an honest debate. You’re a religious bigot.
or you can talk to the bright guys over at RealClimate
Ah, yes. The inventor of the (now thoroughly debunked) “hockey stick”. The one who won’t publish his data sets or algorithms so that others can check his work.
Yep, he’s right up your alley, dataless.
most of that data showed significantly higher temps during the 2000s over the 1990s
Yes, because comparing individual decades makes for an accurate assessment over time. Fucking idiot.
they are citing the Unnatural growth of greenhouse gases as never before seen in humankind’s existance
And we all know, if wiki is citing it, it must be true. Since there have been vast periods of time where we could not measure, since there we were not capable of doing so, again, what are you comparing this to?
That’s a pretty accurate description of what I am reading in the comments here
The next time you pretty accurately describe someone else’s position will be the first.
or you can talk to the bright guys over at RealClimate
Yeah, NASA employee, Gavin, is probably off his lunch break by now, back to “work” we taxpayers pay for at Real Climate.
Silly, fossil trees are just as good thermometers as living ones.
Nishi, do-not-want is equal-opportunity.
hmf. rong thred.
Spies et al: I am still waiting..
dd’s running in parody mode today…
…well, OK, that’s normal, but it’s like it’s turned up to 11.
When dataless says he’s waiting for links, he just means those from RealClimate and Wiki.
Anything else is fingers in the ears and LALALALALALA!!
Slarti – Good point.
I guess my fundamental problem with this is the inherent dishonesty involved in the positions that datadave espouses, and when confronted with same, they make us this idea that people are jamming their heads in the sand when they question any aspect of the greatest problem to confront mankind like EVAH!
The compare one decade to another, and use that findng to extrapolate out on the future of our planet? They make up temperature readings for periods of time when we did not have the ability to measure temps, or were not even present on the earth. Their models cannot predict next week or next month’s weather with anything even remotely approaching accuracy, yet we are simply to accept their proclomations, and while we are at it, should start shoveling money algore’s way to buy some bullfuckingshit carbon offsets.
As far as anyone can tell – since the even much larger apparent prehistoric increases in CO2 concentrations have always followed atmospheric temperature increases – what would truely be “Unnatural” is for these currently much lower CO2 concentrations to actually cause temperatures to rise.
It’s possible, but, in addition, no physical explanation has been found or given for the claim that doubling the CO2 concentration will increase atmospheric temps “x” amount. This also comports with the fact that the ipcc-type Global Warming “scientists” don’t do experiments. Instead, they call playing with Models “experiments”.
And another potentially very severe defect in the way GISS has handled its surface temperature data throughout has just been shown at Climate Audit today.
OK, boys. let’s make sure dataless has a link or he’s liable to smite us for our wingedness.
Climate Audit
Go to the link, dataless and read how a mathematician is auditing the raw data of several climate studies (at least those that will give him the data) and has been finding some troubling errors.
You know, dave, in the data.
J.Peden – I think that putting temp monitors on blacktop surfaces, and next to HVAC equipment is a pretty good example of how some of the surface temperature measurement is flawed. Apparently, datadave and the nishidiot think that is good science.
Facts, schmacts, BJ. They must prop up Teh Narrative.
Apparently, datadave and the nishidiot think that is good science.
Well, it must be “good science” if the layers and layers of “expert” ipcc Peer Reviewers did not even care where the data came from, right?
That’s called heavy lifting I guess.
To be fair to the nishidiot, she thinks AGW is a crock and has written so on numerous occasions.
You must do the “heavy lifting” if you want the scientific community to take you seriously. Unless it is part of the “scientific” community that refuses to do the heavy lifting, in which case that is to be ignored in service of teh narrative.
BJ – You are too nice ;-)
She’s a stopped clock.
Blind squirrel, etc.
JD: I am sweetness and light and I don’t hate anyone, even those from Indiana!
I was from Indiana, once upon a time. It’s a nice place to be from.
Which makes sense, because as water warms, it’s less able to hold gasses in solution. Warmer water releases CO2 (and other gasses), increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere; cooler water absorbs CO2, decreased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere.
To insist that this time it’s different!!111! without proof is to ignore the basic precepts of science.
Slarti – Were it not for the Hoosiers, and the likes of timmah, it would be one helluva state.
Said the Illini.
I’m a Boilermaker, actually, so I have a certain amount of agreement with the whole except-for-the-Hoosiers excuse.
Although…if it weren’t for IU, we wouldn’t have had a decent place to party.
The Soviet Socialist Republic of Monroe County is a land unto itself.
“Burn him! BURRRRRN HIM!”
It’s worked for you for what, 40 years now, right?
Hmmm. He comes off as being much younger. Immature even.
BJ. Mount Penetubo in the Phillipines put more gaseous and particulate matter into the atmosphere in two weeks than man has in all his history on earth.
Sorry dave. There is no objective scientific proof that global warming is man made. UFOs ARE real though and we’re really being visited by people from other planets.
Since you asked, here’s the American Association of Petroleum Geologists’ position paper on global warming. As you might guess they take the long view.
Their conclusions: All of the principal causes of climate change are beyond the control of human beings and, more chilling, glacial conditions will return.
Now, are geologists scientists? Why yes, I believe they are. Do they study past and present earth climates? Yep. Intensively. Do most of ’em laugh at global warming hysterics? You betcha!
I am sweetness and light and I don’t hate anyone, even those from Indiana!
Hey, now, just a minute!
http://www.climateaudit.org/
laughable…amateurish blog where he’s trying to find data to refute overwhelming evidence of climate change: so-called
believersskeptics chiming in with ideas like comparing ginko trees with humans….as Ginkos have been through higher co2 levels in their longer existences approx. 250m years …oh Duh! We’re talking extreme increases in a short time w/ a Human social component of a fragile interdependent society which was unheard of in the past where one species has a monopoly over resources. We accept die backs of bats in the 80 percent range or those lemmings…fleeing famine and into the sea en mass. Sure Humans could survive as long as Ginkos..but we require Planning in order to facilitate our society…of a Andro-dominated planet….unlike other species which have often cyclical massive die backs of their species. Lemmings or humans? Which is your model for the future?Oh, stasisist is what I am accused of. Ok. let’s just let the chips fall where they may. Better stock up on ammunition. And to survive you’ll need more than sharp elbows. So don’t whine about little events like 9/11 which was used by wingnuts to pillage 50K
from each family in the USA for their fun little war (for profit.) Since you’re talking politics for your basis to deny ‘global warming’.
http://coyoteatthedogshow.blogspot.com/2008_04_01_archive.html#4129327228077409121#4129327228077409121
personal blog…..
ok,,, found it: Swen? http://search.datapages.com/data/open/Climate.pdf
for one, as you say they do have an ax to grind being part of the petroleum industry (although it’s not sure in the PDF where they are from…taking your word for it) and the paper is basically propagandistic As is Gore’s position papers but his is based upon more scientists, not just three. btaim….be that as it may….they do say the planet is warming up conflicting with the winger’s here who are saying it’s cooling..(can’t they get their stories straight?) and they are not assessing the human impact upon the climate (because their data is based upon pre-industrial periods or huge human population eras (a never before..and the ultimate variable)… and the effects that climate change would have upon unprecedented human densities upon Earth.
Those lemmings…fleeing famine and into the sea en mass
Wrong again.
You don’t really know much about anything, do you, dave?
Gullible, stoned, and stupid. Just the way your handlers want you to be.
listen doofus, I looked up Lemmings along ways back and never said they did suicide but am referring to the Techno people’s myth.. just like Luddites weren’t against all technical progress just that which was hurting them personally. Lemmings do have Die Backs however and that is what I was referring to. Note, I didn’t say they threw themselves over cliffs (on purpose) just to inform the Nishi’s of the world. As wiki says Lemmings fall into the sea as they are moving from a place of famine…not because they want to drown.
again spoken like a lemming, Spy.
the earth is cooling, the earth is cooling..
maybe but where’s the data? month to month variations aren’t enough. Give the data and science time to prove its case instead of trying to shut down the “inconvenience” of it.
or Shout down the ‘inconvenience’.
I looked up Lemmings along ways back and never said they did suicide
Sure you didn’t.
Hint: lying doesn’t work very well when your original post is still right there on the screen.
Bored now.
Um. Shout what down? Who’s spending the $300 million dollars on propaganda? Ain’t the sane people.
“Breaking Away!”
there actually is a nice place in Indiana?
Comment by datadave on 4/7 @ 7:32 pm #
the earth is cooling, the earth is cooling..
maybe but where’s the data? month to month variations aren’t enough. Give the data and science time to prove its case instead of trying to shut down the “inconvenience†of it.
You really do vigorously persue your own ignorance, don’t you? What’s more you’re proud of it.
Once again; There is no objective scientific proof that global warming is caused by people. There is no objective scientific proof that we are being, or have been, visited by beings from another planet. Oswald shot Kennedy. Elvis is really dead. There is no objective scientific proof that ghosts exist. Crystals can’t cure anything. Yes there probobly is a carburator that can give a car 200 MPG, but the car is very small and does not go very fast.
Using models to predict physical things like cars is relatively easy because all the variables are known. The Climate? not so much.
Give the data and science time to prove its case instead of trying to shut down the “inconvenience†of it.
As much as admitting the hypothesis has yet to be proved, but asking everyone to take it on faith that the ‘crisis’ is real? You do see what’s wrong with that, don’t you?
spies, ya wanna talk about lemmings which I knew already about n ignore the issue.
happy, how much does Mobil/Exxon spend on propaganda for their position. I don’t know, just asking.
rusty, you gotta a good point; keep the scientific inquiry going and not shut it down like the Bush Administration, Mobil/Exxon, et al tried to do.
#75
The irony. It writes itself.
Rusty, it’s the “Reich” that’s trying to shut the debate down and using the power of govt. to do it. Now if you can’t take conflicting viewpoints…start another blog and keep yourself there…as some have told me here.
Dave, It’s *not* “the ‘Reich’ that’s trying to shut the debate down”; the people who don’t want a debate are the ones who equate AGW skeptics to Holocaust deniers.