April 2, 2008

GOP 2008: McCain talking about his life? Raaaaaacist!

The notion the McCain’s current “biography tour” is some form of race-baiting is so dumb that even Matt Stoller has admitted he was wrong about it (he is also wrong about the “history” he cites, but that’s a topic already addressed).  Yet Matthew Yglesias has been pushing the “soft” version of this idiocy at The Atlantic:

Ed [Kilgore] notes the analogy to Bob Dole’s 1996 campaign, the last time the GOP thought having an old man talk fondly about long-past suffering was a good way to win elections. Relatedly, I think it was Matt Stoller who pointed out recently that the candidate with the more impressive military record lost in 1992 and 1996 and 2000 and 2004 so there’s reason to doubt that McCain’s genuinely impressive military record will serve as an ace in the hole for his campaign.

What I’ll say on behalf of this strategy is that it’s the best way I can think of to try to take advantage of older people’s potential discomfort with the idea of a woman or a black man in the White House that doesn’t involve exploiting racism or sexism in a discreditable way. McCain’s putting together an identity politics counter-narrative steeped in nostalgia; it didn’t work against a white southerner running on a very cautious agenda, but 2008 is going to see the Democrats nominating an unorthodox candidate running on a more liberal agenda.

Jon Henke is properly disdainful:

(Sigh)

So that’s it, then? Democrats – whether due to paranoia or calculation – are going to see racism under every rock, and they’re going to exploit the hell out of it. This, as long as political points can be scored for it, will be our “conversation about race.” That won’t exactly help heal, ease or erase racial problems, but that doesn’t seem to be the goal of such accusations…

Of course it isn’t.   Although Barack Obama may be positioning himself as a post-racial candidate, his supporters will play the race card at every possible opportunity.  Politics ain’t beanbag.  Accordingly, the Yglesias version of the argument should be debunked.

As to the biographical point, Kilgore was not the first to note the possible parallel to Bob Dole’s 1996 campaign (nor was I.)  But as Patrick Ruffini coincidentally noted yesterday, “Bob Dole’s biography was moving, but running on a 50-year-old war record in a peacetime election was a nonstarter.”  I would add that in elections like 1972, 1980, 1996 and 2004, the factor of having a referrendum on the incumbent cannot be easily dismissed (particularly when given dovish candidates like McGovern, Carter and Kerry).  Moreover, Al Gore won the popular vote in 2000, though that is a inconvenient truth for the Stollers and Yglesiases in this context.

Furthermore, the Yglesiases of this nation, huddled in their Flophouses, bathed only in the glow of their laptops, may want to get in closer touch with the vast segment of the public who are not political junkies.  McCain’s biography is well-known to Ygelesias, but when voters were recently asked to describe him, words like “veteran” or “P.O.W.” did not make the list, and “Hero”came in sixth.  “Old” led the list, most likely because more people watch David Letterman than C-SPAN.  Thus, it is not surprising that McCain would take the opportunity to remind the public of his biography while Obama and Hillary Clinton remain busy fighting each other.

Finally, I must admit that I am vaguely disappointed in Stoller and Yglesias for not being paranoid enough in playing the race card.  McCain’s biographical speeches are very much about the father-son relationship.  To fully reverse race-bait, Stoller and Yglesias should have claimed McCain’s father-centrism is a subtly-coded contrast with Obama’s black absentee father.  After all, if you are going to be nitwit, don’t be a half-wit about it.

(h/t Memeorandum.)

Update:  Allah-lanche!

Update x2:  Insta-Lanche!

Posted by Karl @ 11:25am
210 comments | Trackback

Comments (210)

  1. Which one’s Mopsy?

  2. Can someone please tell me what is the desired end vis-à-vis race relations in the U.S.?

    Because I was always under the impression that we were aiming at making skin color as socially irrelevant having an innie or an outie.

    But apparently, that’s not what a lot of People in Power want. The BLTs at least are clear about their goals: reverse the hierarchy and give us our turn at the whip.

    And many whites are having too much fun—seeing who can flagellate themselves the hardest in penance for something that some pale dead people did to some dark dead people—to give up the game.

    I dunno. If I were darker-skinned, all I’d want is to go about my business without having to worry that my skin color posed a problem for my employers and neighbors. Outside of that, life sucking as usual, ya know?

    But no, it seems that some people are more interested in using the issue for self-aggrandizement and to wallop their political enemies. With people like that around, the issue will never be resolved well.

    Where do these people come from? Where in the darkest depths of hell did they get these impulses? Why can’t they just do the right thing for once? Is it really that hard?

  3. They are so steeped in their identity politics, they see it everywhere. I would act surprised, but they haven’t surprised me in years.

  4. You know, dicentra, David Thompson was just posting about that.

  5. I meant the left in general, but it fits with dicentra’s comment as well.

  6. Follow the money, dicentra.

  7. They’ll stick with the race card because Obama can’t win on his most-liberal-senator record. It’ll be the Clinton-Bush-Dole races all over again, with the media tilting the field to Obama (remember that even with that help, Bubba never got more than 49%), so I’m thinking some 527 will “Blackhawk” Mr. Smooth — open with voice-over about GWOT, photo of Obama, then photo of Mr. Smooth wearing his Somali-elder garb, sound of Blackhawk phasing in, Somalis dragging Ranger bodies through Mogadishu’s streets, phase out with Rev. Wright screaming Godd*mn America.

    Oh, and Karl, I never thanked you for squeezing that McCartney-Mills info into the blog. That will really give this place a leg up in the ratings.

  8. To borrow a little from Eisenhower:

    In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the grievance-bureaucratic complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

  9. Democrats – whether due to paranoia or calculation – are going to see racism under every rock, and they’re going to exploit the hell out of it. This, as long as political points can be scored for it, will be our “conversation about race.”

    That is why they always describe it as a difficult conversation. They cannot or will not discuss it honestly.

  10. Pingback: Hot Air » Blog Archive » Left confirms: Everything McCain says or does has a secret racist subtext

  11. Boy are they gonna have a fit if McCain picks a black running mate.

  12. Can someone please tell me what is the desired end vis-à-vis race relations in the U.S.?

    You’re soaking in it.

    The “conversation” is owned by the class (sorry) The Atlantic represents, and the people the “conversation” is about are silenced rhetorical props in it.

    Victory has been achieved.

    And Obama is the perfect symbol of it.

  13. Oh, and Karl, I never thanked you for squeezing that McCartney-Mills info into the blog. That will really give this place a leg up in the ratings.

    Based on the referrer logs at my other web gig, that is entirely possible. Here’s the link for those who missed it the first time.

  14. Sorry dicentra, outies are just plain gross.

  15. Boy are they gonna have a fit if McCain picks a black running mate.

    No they won’t. Black republicans are NOT legitimate remember. Auto- Uncle Tom’s and Aunt Jemima’s to the left.

  16. John McCain has also used photographs of himself as a U.S. Senator in his campaign.

    Everyone knows that John McCain is a white U.S. Senator, and Barack Obama is a black U.S. Senator.

    In fact, any photograph of a person or a group of people could remind voters about race, because all people have race.

    The solution is obvious: John McCain should not use any photographs of people in his campaign ads from here on out.

  17. outies are just plain gross.

    I dunno. Wait, are you talking about belly buttons or something else?

  18. Maybe all election campaigning should be done by blog commenting and not be allowed to mention height/weight, race, eye-color, hair or lack of it, genitalia… or lack of it….

  19. Oh. Right. I forgotted, TSk9.

    I’ve got it. Maybe black Republicans are like transvestites? Transvestites affect a hyper-femininity, their nails are always perfect, their bags always match their shoes. In the same way, many black Republicans, it seems, affect a “hyper-whiteness,” staking out positions that even whites in the South grew out of in the Fifties.*

    This is not going to be fun, is it?

  20. The “conversation” is owned by the class (sorry) The Atlantic represents, and the people the “conversation” is about are silenced rhetorical props in it.

    I just threw up in my mouth a little. Because you’re totally right. The industrial-sized grief complex fulfills the measure of its existence merely by existing.

    Sorry dicentra, outies are just plain gross.

    Hey, I’m jake with that, because I’ve got an innie. Besides, most decent folk keep their navels to themselves, thank the deities.

    This is not going to be fun, is it?

    It hasn’t been so far: why should it change?

  21. That’s more orangey than it was sposed to be.

  22. pfft…t’isnt racebaiting.
    its youthbaiting.
    alla those “young” pictures of mccain wont help him when he goes live against O.

  23. he old.

  24. btw, here is the quote u were lookin for feets.

    Sizeable fractions of the american public hold antagonistic sentiments towards christians.

    Data show that antagonism toward fundamentalists is significant today, and increasingly has become concentrated in segments of the populace that have distinct and overlapping characteristics. Multivariate analyses demonstrate that antipathy has religious as well as political sources. It is pervasive among the highly educated and among seculars. And recently, cultural progressivism has also become a significant predictor of antipathy.

    link

  25. hf,

    I agree. Maguire is highly underrated.

  26. Boy are they gonna have a fit if McCain picks a black running mate.

    And he could. Colin Powell seems close to McCain in political philosophy. For a double whammy, how about Condi? A black woman would really pull the plug on their identity politics, save the authenticity issues, and when Condi puts on those knee-high black boots it’s hard to argue she’s not an authentic woman.

    Still, I think choosing Lieberman would be the ultimate Machiavellian stroke and Lieberman has already endorsed him. Besides, wouldn’t it be fun to watch all those heads exploding over at the Kossacks’? It would make all our little jihadi friends sit up real straight in their chairs too.

    But it’s not going to happen. Not that McCain’s too principled to pander, he’s just not that good at it. Maybe we could convince him that by picking one of these running mates he’d be sticking his thumb in the eye of the conservatives? That he’s good at.

    Breaking: Super-delegate Gov. Dave Freudenthal (D – Wyo) has just endorsed Obama, according to ABC News.

  27. Multivariate analyses can demonstrate anything you want them to, nishi. Sometimes you rotate your matrices and sometimes they rotate you.

  28. Sizeable fractions of the american public hold antagonistic sentiments towards christians.

    Back to the griefing. The above sentence was nowhere to be found in your link. You left out the only word that was relevant to the article “fundamentalists”. Big difference and an indication, as if we need any more, of your feeling toward Christians. But you spelled it out this time, so you’re growing.

  29. Back to the griefing.

    Yeah. Apparently she decided she likes the nail-studded baseball bat.

  30. Oh no you di – unt McGehee.

  31. Uh, guys, she’s a Muslim. It’s like they’re required to hate Christians.

  32. It’s like they’re required to hate Christians.

    …and then get all bent out of shape when Christians don’t smile and say, “Thank you, may I have another?”

  33. ye,

    They definitely are stealing our intellectual property

  34. Hi nishi – good catch on that. I don’t think I would argues with most of that at all really.

  35. again good data, Karl. In the summary though you kind of neglected the Pew’s polling about adjectives applied to the candidates…showing a huge advantage for McCain: (old might be ‘negative’ but compared to the other’s?) First 8 descriptors ranked in popularity of use:

    John McCain: Old, Honest, Experienced, Patriot, Conservative, Hero, Liberal, Good

    Obama: Inexperience, Charismatic, Intelligent, Change, Inspirational, Young, New, Enthusiastic

    Hillary Clinton: Experienced, Strong, Untrustworthy, Intelligent, Smart, Determined, “Rhymes with rich”, Knowledgeable

    seems they all have one major flaw but hillary might have one and a half…the jarring “rhymes with rich” is a bit weird. Old vs Inexperienced seems might be good for McCain. Unless the still distinct possibility that Hillary can get the Dem’s nod (down to a maybe 30- percent chance but increasing possible due to the bounce of probable wins in PA, etc….and a possible Obama melt down?)

    It’s true the Dole analogy is possible but that was on Bill Clinton’s second election after he’d done a reasonable job in leading the economy out of the Reagan/Bush fallout. Interestingly, geezers are more likely to discount McCain’s electability than younger folk.. .as a near geezer I’ll plead guilty except I sort of like his age and ‘tude. Obama’s got my vote first but he’s got a long ways to go.

    Also Pew’s data showed that many more people want more policy details from Obama than from the other’s. I hope he picks wisely and gives details…up to a point as he’d shoot himself with too much details..(as any salesman knows too many choices to confuse the customer is a deal breaker)

    John, Pick Lieberman!!! take him, he’s my wife!! (ah, ,I mean, get him out of the Senate)

  36. “Sizeable fractions of the american public hold antagonistic sentiments towards christians.”

    that is from the abstract
    in the first sentence.
    if you doubt my analysis of growing antipathy towards christians read Goldberg’s whine about the eevul darwin fishes

  37. my hypothesis is that the more christianity gets convolved with politics, the more resentment and antipathy towards it will manifest among all non-christian groups.

  38. Because I said so, dammit. Now listen to nishi. It is right about everything because she perceives it. Xians – bad. Islam – a proud and peaceful religion that would never mix religion and politics.

  39. My hypothesis is that, as more idiots troll, the more likely they’ll be met with responses they interpret as threats of violence.

  40. Thanks for the heads-up on that article, Nishi. Great finish:

    The Darwin fish ostensibly symbolizes the superiority of progressive-minded science over backward-looking faith. I think this is a false juxtaposition, but I would have a lot more respect for the folks who believe it if they aimed their brave contempt for religion at those who might behead them for it.

    I wouldn’t agree more.

  41. Bob Dole used to say that he .. “served in the military, sustained a head wound, then went into politics”. McCain has no such head wound.

  42. McCain is not a racist. for sure. but either he is getting a bit senile or he is just dumb: he know next to nothing about Iraq other than we should keep; lots of troops there for a long time…and he is our experience foreign affairs guy?

    My question : why has he thus far not signed on to the bill to helpIraq vet with G.I. Bill though many in his party and most Dems have?
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/03/mccain-is-awol-on-new-gi_n_94791.html
    His wiat and see notion of fixing the economy is hardly what the nation now needs!

    so continue to badmouth the Democrats and live with the budget that has gone into the tanks because of and endless and non-ending war; continue to live with housing market that has lowered the value of your home; continue to live with McCain who is the other side of George Bush one day and the opposite the following day; who is a very conservative guy one day and wants to quit the party the next! are you better off now than you were 7 years ago? really?

  43. because really, the government should just be viewed as a giant free cash machine for everyone.

  44. oh, and I’m much better off than 7 years ago. really.

  45. it is the visual shock that will hurt mccain the most when the presidential debates go live on terebi.
    the hardwiring of homosapiens sapiens will always chose youth over age.

  46. i think my sufism is red herring for y’all.
    i am an American citizen first.
    citizenship should trump race, religion, ethnicity and gender.
    the Steve Sailor model i think.

  47. Perhaps that the way the young view it. Of course, youth are the ultimate narcissists.

    But, if we were talking image alone- who would I rather “follow” – John Wayne or Zac Efron?

    Not even a question.

  48. Actually because the small difference between vote totals of Gore and Bush was actually less than the margin of error in our counting, we have no idea who won the popular vote. Each candidate got X votes plus or minus a million or so. But the difference between them was only a few hundred thousand, so we have no idea if Gore actually got more, or Bush got more, it’s a black box. No one knows, and by this time no one will ever know.

  49. David Still – How many times have you clicked on copy and paste today?

    Incredibly better off in the last 7 years, thanks for asking.

    Nishi – Simple question. Does Christianity or Islam compel the mixture of religion and politics?

  50. I think this is a false juxtaposition

    But Carin, in evolutionary theory of culture, that is a true juxtapostion.
    Perception is reality.
    it is all about branding.

  51. Does Christianity or Islam compel the mixture of religion and politics?
    simple answer, neither.

    Carin, consider.
    Christianity has set itself contra-science here and here.
    Scientists are smart and progressive….therefore in cultural perception christians are not-smart and not-progessive.

  52. Christianity, science, and the evolutionary theory of culture. Why has this never been discussed here before?????

  53. Does Christianity or Islam compel the mixture of religion and politics?

    Yet you managed to not even come close to providing anything remotely resembling a coherent answer. You did manage to puke out some standard talking points, though you forgot ESCR and abortions for Africans.

  54. Anyway, nish, after about 28 you stop judging age the same way. You realize that you don’t ever feel much older than that (unless you lose your health), and you know other people feel the same way.

  55. Nishi – Note that I asked nothing about science, nor your views on juxtaposition of age and height. Simple question. The simple fact is that your Islam is supposed to inform governance, and in practice, does throughout the Middle East, with some exceptions. Christianity, no so much. Yet, you are bigoted against Christians, you say, because they seek to impose their beliefs through politics and governance, yet turn a blind eye to Islam actually doing that. When it comes to issues, you have issues. All of your mindless repetitive drivel about science, ESCR, homosexuals, etc … blinds you to the fact that your chosen religion is absolutely hstile to all of the above. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

  56. JD…three or four centuries ago the ruling sunni genocided the mu’tazhili and decimated the shi’ia in order to hold onto their caliphate argument.
    in present day, christians are forcibly inserting religious values into government, because they think their religion deserves representation.
    what is the difference?

  57. Actually, it was Bill Kristol in the NY Times who pointed out that the man with the more impressive bio (including military record)lost in the past four elections.

    That said, does anyone really believe that Gore had an impressive military record. He served (briefly) as a journalist in Vietnam. Is that really much better than being in the national guard?

  58. Religious values like getting rid of the death penalty?
    Or religious values like making sure the poor get fed?

  59. Christians practicing Democracy. Oh, for the love of Allah, you are fucking stoopid. Which religion will stone you to death for practicing the love practices of the gleeens and Excitable Andy? Not Christianity. Which religion produces spodeydopes trying to murder infidels? Not Christianity. You really are a tool.

  60. I heard there was some scintillating work being done on ESC’s is Yemen prior to this dastardly Xianist revolution here in the States.

  61. for practicing the love practices of the gleeens and Excitable Andy?

    still, you dont want them to get married.
    sub-citizens.

  62. at the end of the day, Bob Dole is one funny mother-frakker.

    -

    Barack and Hillary are Cylons – and not the good kind, either.

    -

  63. ima transhumanist.
    is that a cylon?

  64. think about it.
    Kylon and the first democrats genocided the pythagoreans.
    i was aukousmatekoi in another life.

  65. Nishi –

    in present day, christians are forcibly inserting religious values into government, because they think their religion deserves representation.
    what is the difference?

    The force they use is voting as opposed to cutting heads off?

  66. The force they use is voting as opposed to cutting heads off?

    no diff in evo theory of culture.
    both remove an opposition vote.

  67. They are free to marry any woman that will have them, nishi. It is their choice not to.

    I apologize for conversing with the nishidiot. I will resume ignoring, when I am not mocking. Fucking griefer troll.

    BOO!

  68. SOME Christians, nishi, believe in ID or desire our government to be a tad more Christian. Just like SOME (many -or a whole fucking LOT) muslims believe that religion IS government. You don’t need to go back three or four centuries to find that in Islam. Sharia and all that.

  69. Pingback: Daily Pundit » McCain: That Old Guy

  70. I, too, apologize.

  71. Wrong again, mental midget. In the democracy, the voice is not removed. The opponents can continue to fight for their position, advocate for same, and change public opinion to pressure the decision makers. Not so much when your head has been sawed off with a rusty scimtar, or smashed to a bloody pulp by a stone.

  72. get clear.
    marriage is a sacrament, right?
    keep it in ur church.

    carin, jd, yup.
    homosexuals are sub-citizens, right?
    ignore me, now that i’ve kicked ur ass.

  73. I agree. Maguire is highly underrated.

    Clarice comments there. It keeps me coming back.

  74. I need someone to hold me. Nishi has kicked my ass. I’m but a mere fragment of my former self.

    But, remind me where I addressed homosexuality in this thread?

    Oh, right … in your IMAGINATION.

  75. evo thery f cultr! evo thery f cultr! evo thery f cultr! evo thery f cultr! evo thery f cultr! evo thery f cultr! evo thery f cultr! evo thery f cultr! evo thery f cultr! evo thery f cultr!!!!!!!

  76. pw’s homfobs! pw’s homfobs! pw’s homfobs! pw’s homfobs! pw’s homfobs! pw’s homfobs! pw’s homfobs! pw’s homfobs! pw’s homfobs! pw’s homfobs! pw’s homfobs!!!!!!!!

  77. get clear carin.
    i kicked your ass on evo theory of theory of culture, and on ur weak premise that xians arent convolvin goverment with THEIR religion.

    and on your opinion of subsaharan african citizens.
    lulz.

  78. cickd ur as! cickd ur as! cickd ur as! cickd ur as! cickd ur as! cickd ur as! cickd ur as! cickd ur as! cickd ur as! cickd ur as! cickd ur as! cickd ur as! cickd ur as! cickd ur as! cickd ur as! cickd ur as!!!!!!!!

  79. Holy wow. So “evolutionary theory of culture” equates being on the wrong side of a majority decision with execution.

    Congratulations. I didn’t think your self-serving philosophies could possibly come across as any more retarded; thank you for the correction. Apparently, too much schooling can, in fact, make you a much dumber person. Glad I got out before that happened to me.

  80. xianist homofobes inciting violence against the mentally impaired and women

  81. wat wer we takin bout? eye fergit topec butt eye cickd ur as’s. on teh topec, wat evr et ws, lulz, lol mouse grrrrrrllll.

  82. Nishi – My point was that the gleeeeens and Exitable Andy are free to marry any womyn that will have them. Since you have no idea how I, or anyone else thinks about this issue, the idea that you could ever school anyone here is practically laughable. You do not care what anyone else thinks, you just keep on spewing you 4 or 5 talking points, regardless of topic.

    BOO!

  83. pcachu, the founders wanted wanted to protect us from religion, not impose some varient.
    like yours.
    i have perfect confidence in their genius.
    that is why samesex marriage will be imposed by “judicial fiat”.

  84. hay im dplegngr fir nishi, u ct that oot dos im cickn pw retrds as’s on topec doo joor, whatevr mystc sufee evo devo NORM!

  85. jd u urz homfob cuz teh marage meens wht eye wants too meen. eye spelz “judicial fiat” write tho so yooz homfob xtian dumas, carin to. haa cickd as’s agin, yoo be bleedn now un yer altr wth gew carpntr, lulz.

  86. u r killin mee ! knot u, nishidiot, ur doppleganger. woot!

  87. Few people know that John and Abigal Adams actually met at a gay wedding.

  88. SOME Christians, nishi, believe in ID or desire our government to be a tad more Christian.

    zactly.
    but u must pay the cost in cultural stereotypin.
    the founders wanted our governement to protect us from religion, not impose some variant. like yours, carin.
    xians pay in antipathy.
    i think it is selfregulating, really.

  89. jd twp thanx butt yoo stil homfob n xtian dumas repub ludite n thats no theerie. how sor u as? lol lulz grrrrllll eye mus do oliv ol un mee thi’s n rol roun barrck postr oooooo mak mee teh hot n swety wth bama luzt mmmmmmm.

  90. kthxbye

  91. Pingback: Racial Paranoia And John McCain — Dean’s World

  92. that is why samesex marriage will be imposed by “judicial fiat”.

    Don’t forget the brother/sister marriage and the multiple partner marriage that you support because they can have good sex!
    Then we’ll have hit the whole checklist of nishitopics.

  93. Is this going to be yet another thread where we all discover nishi to be a self-serving, intellectually dishonest, lying sack of shit, but only after 400+ comments?

    Rhetorical question; no need to answer. I’ll check back after a couple of hundred more comments.

  94. I was raised to believe that bad stereotyping was the fault of the person who applied it, not the person or group to which it was applied.

  95. DO NOT FEED THE TTP’s! If you don’t stop it, I’m going to fly to Iraq, bring Major John back to personally nut-kick each of you, and then fly him back.

    Again, DO NOT FEED THE TTP’s.

    Thatisall.

  96. Hey, Slart – did you hear REM is releasing a new album? There last two really sucked, and I have Radiohead now, so -really- what’s the point?

    What do you think?

  97. Fine Scotch – I’m not really a scotch drinker. More of a wino. But, if I were to TRY scotch, what would you recommend for a beginner?

  98. MayBee – Now that you mention that, nishi’s world might be more peacful. Just think, Abdul, freed from societies chains of oppression, will be free to marry Jamila the Goat, whom he has been cornholing for years. His rage against the west was intensified by their unwillingness to be tolerant of his definition of marriage. Now that he has been released from the xianist theocratic oppression, his love for his goat is no longer verboten. His pent up rage will no longer compel him to be a splodeydope, ‘cept on the goat’s back.

  99. Hey, Slart – did you hear REM is releasing a new album? There last two really sucked, and I have Radiohead now, so -really- what’s the point?

    REM’s best work is in their first two albums, where you couldn’t actually hear the lyrics, so making the effort to try and understand couldn’t possibly have gained you anything. In other words, ignorance actually was bliss. Anything after Reckoning and Murmur is mostly crap, IMO.

    Speaking of back to the ’80s, though, Youtube has some Thomas Dolby podcasts that are very cool. I’ve got most of his stuff, but I’ve never actually considered how he does his thing; the podcasts show him putting together his own songs, solo, and live. Here‘s the first one. Aliens Ate My Buick and The Flat Earth are both very good; some of it I don’t particularly care for, but these days you can throw all of what you don’t like out of your iPod mix.

    Radiohead is good stuff; I have rather a lot of it but haven’t listened in a while. Wilco’s latest is really, really good.

    Back to the ’80s, I have a few guys working for me that are all younger than my career is. Just a couple of days ago we were all talking about how wierd the ’80s were, fashion-wise, so I sent them a whole bunch of links to awesome ’80s videos. Pretty funny for all of us. I actually own a lot of that music, still, on vinyl. The Kajagoogoo, though, I gave away. I’ve owned a huge variety of music in my life, and at least ten percent of it turned out to be, after far too many listenings, utter crap that I’d just as soon forget I ever paid money for.

  100. Carin, for a beginner scotch, I’d recommend a blend. Try Dewar’s, on the rocks or with some water. Dewar’s is, in my opinion, the best of the blends. Chivas is utter crap, and way overpriced, as is Johnny Walker. Really, if you’re going to get a blend, get a blend that doesn’t have that nishi-like overly elevated self-opinion. Single malts you can spend yourself blind on, but I try to limit myself to ~$50 a bottle, max. Which will get you a nice Ardbeg or Laphroiag.

    I also recommend Bushmill’s, which is Irish and not all that related to scotch. Still, nice flavor, much preferable to bourbons, which I mostly loathe.

  101. Cutty Sark, on the other hand, I wouldn’t wish on anyone. Stay away from the lower-shelf blends, if you value your taste buds.

  102. I always appreciated that REM takes an interest in promoting other worthy bands as opening acts, whether it was The Replacements, Husker Du or the Minutemen in the 80s, or the National today. They also tend to hire indie luminaries as live backup, whether it was the dB’s Peter Holsapple in the 90s or Young Fresh Fellow/Minus 5er Scott McCaughey today.

    I only met them once and mostly drank with Bill Berry, who was a terrifically nice guy. Peter Buck has seemed nice both times I met him, which made the whole air rage episode so regrettable. Mike Stipe seemed exactly like his stereotype. Mike Mills was working several ladies at once, so I left him alone. And somewhere there is an incriminating photo of Scott McCaughey and me both wearing wigs, though that was not an REM gig.

  103. I saw REM at a bowling alley in Dallas. That was a really, really, shockingly long time ago.

  104. Also, Peter Buck’s autograph looks like him, which I thought was a neat trick. He pulled the re-order form out of the back of his copy of Tom Sawyer to sign one, which was pretty cool.

  105. And somewhere there is an incriminating photo of Scott McCaughey and me both wearing wigs, though that was not an REM gig.

    wearing only wigs?

  106. Oops, Fort Worth. So long ago, I forgot whether I was on I-30 heading East or West.

    Either that, or I was really drunk at the time. Could be both.

  107. I LOVED Thomas Dolby. Europa, I Scare Myself (my favorite, I think), Cloudburst.

    PreFab Sprout (Faron Young, Appetite)

    REM – I saw them in concert in – 1987 (they played at my college – Miami University). I spot REM their first four ablums as worthy.

    I can talk 80′s rock all day. I haven’t even mentioned “The Smiths” yet.

  108. And yes, a shockingly long time ago — though I did chat briefly with Buck again a couple of years ago when he was touring as part of the Venus 3.

  109. I have some Bushmills – blech. I only use it for … what the heck DO I use it for? Oh, yes – I make a really good bread pudding and use it for the sauce.

  110. The Prefab Sprout album w/ “Faron Young” (Two Wheels Good/Steve McQueen, depending on nation of origin) was in recurring rotation at the local indie record store during my college years. One of my best friends ran the place, which is Claude rains-level shocking, I know.

    I was partial to Dolby’s Flat Earth when I was a freshman. He went on to make serious money in the ringtone business.

  111. Carin,

    Oddly enough, I don’t really know. Scotch worth drinking tends to be a wee bit out of my price range, so I drink more bourbon (sorry, Slart), beer, and wine (depending on mood, time of year, and wife’s desire to have a drink with me).

    Depending on where you live, there are frequent (i.e., more than 1/year) Johnnie Walker tastings (free) in cities all over the US. Those have been really interesting and informative.

    Also, check the archives here. Jeff went on a scotch search a while ago and posted his reviews. Or, alternately, email Jeff.

    If you’re into wines, check out Ledson Vineyards and Moon Mountain Vineyards. Ledson’s 2002 Alexander Valley Cab Sauv. is phenomenal! Moon Mountain is a tiny little winery and the only one in Sonoma not actually in the Valley.

  112. I liked The Smiths, but I loathe Morrissey. It’s complicated.

    That was way back when I liked U2 a lot. So much that I camped out overnight for tickets to see them at Reunion Arena, early 1985. Front row, center.

  113. MayBee,

    No, not wearing only wigs. And there are women in the picture as well. McCaughey actually stole his wig from the venue. I saw him wearing it several days later, when the Young Fresh Fellows opened for The Replacements to kick off the Pleased to Meet Me tour at First Ave in Mpls. McCaughey saw us before the show and then heckled my aforementioned friend from the stage during guitar solos. Reverse heckling is an odd experience.

  114. I think I saw REM at the Bronco Bowl in 1984. The sound system sucked, though, and it took them most of their gig to get the sound worked out.

    I saw INXS at the Orlando Convention Center in late ’86, I think; similar problems. Their backup band was PIL. Hard walls and concrete floor = mostly confused-sounding crapola, until they got it straight. Just in time to dedicate Devil Inside to Jimmy Swaggart. I liked their second and third albums pretty well (Shabooh Shoobah and The Swing); the rest was a little too pop for me.

  115. Slart – I am SO with you on that.

    I still like U2 – my husband got us EXCELLENT seats for our anniversary two years back. Man, are they good. So, I saw U2 in 1984 and 2005. Hows that? LOL 20 years apart. I certainly have skipped some of their albums through the years, but those last two were pretty darn good.

  116. Slart,

    My “posse” roadtripped from IA to IL to see U2 on the Unforgettable Fire tour.

  117. I’ve heard of Moon Mountain – I went to Trader Joe’s because they had a blurb about it and supposedly carried it, but they didn’t have any in stock.

  118. I saw INXS when they were an opening act — for the Go-Go’s, IIRC.

  119. If you’re into wines, check out Ledson Vineyards and Moon Mountain Vineyards. Ledson’s 2002 Alexander Valley Cab Sauv. is phenomenal! Moon Mountain is a tiny little winery and the only one in Sonoma not actually in the Valley.

    Thanks, AFS. I wrote those down.
    We went to Santa Ynez wine country last week. It was beautiful.
    Lately I’m all about the Syrah.

  120. I saw U2, for those who know Detroit, at the Fox Theater. Before it was renovated, of course. Alas, unless Mikey is trolling this thread, the coolness of that may be lost.

  121. A semi-aside: How sad is it that Bono is better on free trade than Obama?

  122. …and while I’m not keen on Morrissey either, I did note that he caught tons of flak recently for complaining about how London was losing its Englishness due to the whole Londinostan thing (though he didn’t use that term).

  123. Wilco’s latest is really, really good

    I’ll second that. though it could be that it’s now associated with driving three hours at three in the morning to pick up RTO when he got back from Afghanistan.

  124. Sky Blue Sky is good. Tweedy cleaning himself up worked wonders.

  125. Even though I liked all of those bands a LOT, the best live act I’ve seen, by a long stretch, is Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, Denver Botanical Gardens. It was raining at first, but the jaw-dropping proficiency of the band made us forget all about such mundane bothers.

    Next best live music experience, including venue, was Chris Isaac backing up Bonnie Raitt at Red Rocks, sometime around 1990-1991. Full moon rose behind the stage just as Bonnie took it. Raised goosepimples even on the rocks themselves.

    Absolutely the most thrilled-to-be-there concert was Dave Brubeck Band, Elco Theater, Elkhart, Indiana, sometime in the mid-1970s. Dave on Piano, Gerry Mulligan on baritone sax, and various of Dave’s kids supplying the rest of the band. Fantastic.

    U2 is probably right after that.

    Wilco at the Hard Rock at Disney, a few years back, would have to go high up on the list as well. Their backup band sucked, though. But I despise almost all that is ska.

    Orchestral: the day after Columbia fell apart, we went to see the Atlanta Symphony, and Robert Spano directed them playing Barber’s Adagio for Strings. Must have been some smoke in the air; my eyes kept welling up. Live, it’s so much more powerful, and I think Spano adds some additional something that the linked piece lacks.

  126. If we’re talking pure guitar musicianship, I would heartily recommend Richard Thompson, whose live brilliance has imho never been fully captured on a recording. He also has a lovely dark sense of humor. Unfortunately, I think you would also get some anti-war commentary these days.

  127. I haven’t even mentioned “The Smiths” yet.

    Music to slit your wrists to.

    My “posse” roadtripped from IA to IL to see U2 on the Unforgettable Fire tour.

    Assembly Hall or Soldiers Field?

    Best concert? Close calls between Clapton at The Fox in St. Louis or Pearl Jam at Shoreline Ampitheatre before they became all trendy.

  128. I went to Trader Joe’s because they had a blurb about it and supposedly carried it, but they didn’t have any in stock

    My absolute favorite wine from Trader Joe’s is Two Buck Chuck: Charles Schaw, $2.99 a bottle. Any of them are as good as any wine under $20, and better than a great many over $20. Best wine value, bar none, anywhere. Chardonnay, Merlot, Cabernet: take your pick; they’re all good. Don’t just take my word for it; it’s respectable wine.

  129. Can we talk about the worst concerts we’ve been to?

    I bid: Air Supply, 1983, South Bend, Indiana.

    I considered opening with Journey, 1981, Purdue Concert Hall, but their backup band was quite good.

  130. I was raised to believe that bad stereotyping was the fault of the person who applied it, not the person or group to which it was applied.

    nope.
    all stereoptyping stems from cultural perception.
    really, it is up to christians.
    the more theocons force the convolution of christianity with politics, the more resentful other groups will become.
    the founders felt no need to impose a state religion, because they believed in the intrinsic superiority of their respective religions.
    that ppl would voluntarily choose christianity or deism or w/e was a given for them.

  131. i think i have proven that there is rising antipathy to christians.

  132. MayBee,

    No, not wearing only wigs. And there are women in the picture as well.

    Way to spoil it, Karl. I’ve told you before it’s ok to lie to me.

  133. I’m sorry, I don’t speak jive.

  134. Worst ever? New Edition – Six Flags Over Mid-America. Or Ratt @ SIU.

    Slart – I thought the little tse-tse fly left.

  135. In case anyone ever forgets (how could you?) MayBee and maggie are really cool. Same with Carin, dicentra, SarahW, etal. but MayBee and mags are tits, figuratively speaking.

  136. How about Huey Lewis and the News, Six Flags Over Texas, 1984?

    Oooh…SIU. Go Salukis! I have no idea what a Saluki is, but I don’t know what a Boilermaker is, either.

  137. *burp* Let me tell ya about boilermakers…

  138. I’ve had so many opportunities to see so many great concerts but I can easily pick the best I ever saw.

    1975(?) Spectrum, Philly The Who

    It was the last stop on the tour. They played for over 3 hours, didn’t “Won’t Get Fooled Again” until the 3rd and last encore and then trashed every bit of equipment in a 30 minute orgy of pillage. rolling Stone wrote it up.

    I was in a walking coma for a week after that show.

  139. “Can we talk about the worst concerts we’ve been to?”

    The Famous Tea, opened for the Bad Brains at UC Irvine in 1989. They were so bad, the bouncers went on stage, unplugged the band’s equipment and ** literally ** pushed them off — and the crowd gave the bouncers a standing ovation.

  140. Watching Baba O’Reilly on a huge equalizer after eating a bunch of mushrooms was supposed to be really fun, BJ. At least that is what I heard.

    Salukis are essentially like an Egyptian greyhound. I grew up a few miles from that campus.

  141. Slart

    U2 was at the UIC Pavillion

    Best:
    Hard to pick from so many, but here’s a selection.

    Husker Du & Soul Asylum closing the Flip Your Wig tour at Amelia’s in IA City. Lost considerable hearing and don’t regret it.

    The Replacements opening the Tim Tour at 7th St. Entry in Mpls.

    The Feelies at the Cubby Bear in Chicago, packed in like live pogoing Sardines.

    The Beat Farmers, also @ Cubby Bear — imagine the C&W bar scene from the Blues Brothers, but without the chicken wire. The bar would not serve glasses and bottles when (the late) Country Dick & Co would take the stage. Band members crowd surfing to the bar, where the bartender would por Jagermeister directly into Country Dick’s mouth.

    Eric Clapton at the late Poplar Creek in Schaumburg, IL on the Money & Gigs tour. Donald “Duck” Dunn on bass.

    Talking Heads – Stop Making Sense tour – before the movie, no one knew what to expect.

    Richard Thompson at the Maintenance Shop in Ames, IA — though he always does a fantastic show, sitting two feet away from him playing acoustic was a mind-blower.

    Bruce Springsteen, Hilton Coliseum in Ames, IA; the hardest workin’ moonbat in show bidness.

    Sharon Jones & the Dap-Kings @ Double Door in Chicago. Forget Winehouse; this is where it’s at.

    The Hold Steady & Art Brut @ Metro, Halloween 2007. The HS is currently America’s bar band, with a ferocious following, a veritable orgy of shouting, pointing and moshing. Art Brut also brings it in a very pomo rock way.

    Guided by Voices — any number of gigs, though certainly their second-to-last show ever @ Metro in Chicago. Possibly the only band I ever saw get drunker than the Replacements, yet still pulling off some prog time changes amid the Who/Kinks-esque anthems.

    Worst:

    Mostly opening acts — like Michael Bolton in his hard rock phase, opening for Bab Seger on the Against the Wind tour.

    Quiet Riot opened for someone also and was horrid.

  142. Karl – Isn’t almost any gig at The Metro, or The Vic, a good show?

  143. u r forget hana montena, grl iz so cut n enirgizd itz to bad shez xtain theocon az evulooshun theree sez rest of peeplses soone hate herz. eye cicked ur as’s agin lulz. al pws dumas theocon anti-science snak handlrz n teh gey haten homfobz. m oute of oliv ool fer bama postr luzt frwn ;-( cya

  144. Karl’s got me beat on the upside AND on the downside.

    Stickmen with Rayguns was probably the worse band I ever saw, but they were funny, so: value delivered.

    Ah, I found someone who speaks jive.

  145. Oh, and given that I mentioned Scott McCaughey, I have to say that the Young Fresh Fellows at the M-Shop was fairly amazing as well, though some of their gigs at the (now departed) Lounge Ax in Chicago were remarkable in their destructiveness. They were always much more rocking live than on record.

  146. I *heart* The Feelies.

  147. In case anyone ever forgets (how could you?) MayBee and maggie are really cool. Same with Carin, dicentra, SarahW, etal. but MayBee and mags are tits, figuratively speaking.

    WERE cool, lolz.
    for their generation.
    this is wat’s cool now: MCR, Jack’s Mannequin, Muse, NIN(still), Flowbots, the Fray, Jimmie Eat World, Fitty, Flo-ryder, Linkun Parc(and Fort Minor) plus a host of others….

    BTW,
    “…The heat and light of the sun are caused by nuclear reactions between a failed foreign policy, a failed domestic policy, and a failed presidency…”
    sry.
    ;)

  148. We’re going to have to send out for a jive interpreter, I think.

  149. Karl – Isn’t almost any gig at The Metro, or The Vic, a good show?

    Almost. Grant Hart opened for someone at Metro and was disappointing for chemical reasons.

    As for the Vic, I’ve seen RT there too, but The Pogues and TMBG both did incredible shows there. Fountains of Wayne was pretty good there too. They were better at the Double Door, but at the Vic (after Stacy’s Mom charted) it was fun to see them turn their own “Radiation Vibe” into the Cars’ “Let’s Go,” Kansas’s “Carry On” and Foreigner’s “Hot Blooded,” just to mess with the youngsters. And the encored with a bettr-than-the-original “Can’t Get it Out of My Head,” telling the kids it was ELO and to ask their parents about ‘em.

  150. btw, They Might Be Giants ain’t gonna be votin for johnnymac.
    link

  151. Reminder to self: be more careful playing the classics in front of the kids. The other day my 6-year-old told my wife that I was hot blooded.

    Sometimes we just have to go in another room and stifle.

  152. nishi – I/we could give a flyin’ fuck what you think is cool. You promised to leave.

    BOO!

  153. JD, you speak jive?

  154. I would spot nishi the NIN and possibly the Muse, but the rest, not so much (Jimmy Eat World is a pefrectly okay pop band, but I doubt they bring it live).

  155. Obviously, I don’t judge musical quality by the political opinions of the musicians, who are generally as politically shallow as… nishi.

    For example, Robyn Hitchcock is a total moonbat and now injects too much of it into the stage banter, but he’s still one of the most consistently entertaining acts you’re likely to see.

  156. Add: Cheap Trick playing “Live at Budokan” in its entirety @ Metro for the 25th anniversary (iirc).

  157. and i didnt even start on Emo…Thrice, Hawthorne Heights, the Axe that Chopped the Cherry Tree, Sunny Day Real Estate, Forever the Sickest Kidz, Breathe Carolina….
    all good live shows.
    ;)

  158. Great list Karl!

    Worst band I ever saw was a Danish band called Gazoline, opening for Jan Hammer and Hot Tuna. The guitarist knew about 4 chords, the bass player couln’t keep a beat but the drummer was decent. Horrible late seventies European trash rock that demonstrably shrank your IQ while you listened.

    Strangest backup band: Carmen backing up Jefferson Airplane (Starship?) in the late seventies (this was during my hazy Quaaludes period.) They were, believe it or not, a flamenco rock band! The music was actually pretty good, a hybrid of the traditional Spanish genre with Rock/Jazz which included, yup, flamenco dancers! (I still have occasional flashbacks of that one.)

    Best small venue concert is also easy: Bruce Springsteen at the Bottom Line in NY, 1975. Almost 5 hours in line, a 250 seat club with at least 500 people jammed inside (thank God Bruce didn’t use pyro!) and, again, over three hours of everything from the upcoming Born to Run Album to Dylan and The Byrds and everything in between. Phee-nominal showman. Honerable mention: George Thorogood and the Destroyers at Doc Watson’s in Philly. He danced on my table!

    Most satisfying acoustic experience? Dave Mason Acoustic Tour, Irvine Aud., U of Penn, 1976 or 7. Mainly because a frat brother was working the show and I got to stand in the orchestra pit and put my elbows on the stage. Mason did “Shouldn’t Have Took More Than You Gave” solo with an Ovation 12 string and, to this day, it’s the most beautiful acoustic guitar sound I’ve ever heard.

    Biggest Delightful Surprise: Discovering Little Feat as the opening band for Dave Mason (different tour.) They rocked the house and my buddies and I were looking at each, gape mouthed, screaming “Who the F*&k are these guys?” Only time in my experience that an opening band was called out for two encores.

    Yea, I know, I’m light on eighties experience.

  159. Totally envious of Springsteen at the Bottom Line in ’75. There is something about a band on the verge of greatness that is just palpable at shows like that. Plus, he had great taste in covers, like The Searchers’ “Everytime That You Walk In The Room” and Manfred Mann’s “Pretty Flamingo.”

  160. one last thing….

    “There are some things worth having, but they come at a price.”

    the price of christians forcing their religion into goverment will come as increasing resentment of and antipathy for christians.

    im done for a while.

  161. but i think i will go buy a darwin fish for my bumper.
    ;)

  162. Sorry, Slarti – I am not so good at following even my own advise.

    Anything at Shoreline was fun if the weather was good.

  163. I am almost embarassed to admit that Elton John and Billy Joel together, at Busch Stadium, was really fun. But I was really really messed up, and had a hot date. So, maybe the concert wasn’t that great.

  164. Oh, Karl, I had completely forgotten about those two covers. He is the best cover guy I’ve ever seen. He always brought his own unique perspective to the tunes while retaining their original flavor.

    Wow memory fades. I can’t remember which show I went to although I believe it was one of the two last ones. 400 seats seems like a lot to me, but they let in a number of standing room people (including my group. The place was a large fire department fine waiting to happen. His showmanship and charisma were just amazing.

    Thanks, Karl!

  165. A hot date always helps. And Elton was still making show when I saw him, plus an incredible catalog of material.

  166. ha ha! old age and treachery will stomp youth and beauty every time. jealous much?

  167. u r roc theocons n eye kin spel “antipathy” and “resentment” butt cantz fine teh coma, lulz. cya, mus go by oliv ool mmmmmmm bama luv

  168. oliv ool fer thi’s n me barak postr rubing him gud cya ;-(

  169. For example, Robyn Hitchcock is a total moonbat and now injects too much of it into the stage banter, but he’s still one of the most consistently entertaining acts you’re likely to see.

    Saw him at a night club in Orlando, 1990 or so. Great stuff. The band was very good live.

    Oh, almost forgot about seeing The Fixx here in Orlando, late ’80s, as well as Midnight Oil, about 1988 I think. Medium-sized nightclub venues; both bands absolutely great live. Midnight Oil annoys me these days, mostly musically, because they’ll kick ass for a portion of a song, and then the rest goes flat. Case in point: River Runs Red. It’s probably deliberate, but that only makes it more annoying.

  170. Did Manfred Mann do anything that Springsteen didn’t cover?

  171. On the other hand, One Country is awesome.

  172. nishi’s grief:

    “Sizeable fractions of the american public hold antagonistic sentiments towards christians.”

    that is from the abstract
    in the first sentence.

    No, “Sizeable fractions of the american public hold antagonistic sentiments towards religious conservatives.” is from the abstract in the first sentence.

    You see, “religious conservatives” includes your head-choppers. But my IQ is 151, so I will cut you slack on your clumsy misrepresentation, being your superior, and having the responsibility that comes with greater intellectual power. I’m glad you’ve gotten over your fear. Now pick up your brain jockstrap and go back to practice.

  173. “Sizeable fractions of the american public hold antagonistic sentiments towards theocons.”
    hehe, fixed it.
    that is a survey based on sentiment towards xians, lolz.

    also from the abstract–

    “Indeed, three times as many respondents strongly dislike Christian …. The comparability in findings across academic and commercial polls should not be all …”

  174. look.
    do wat you like.
    force your religious values into government.
    but don’t whine when it makes large segments of the population increasingly antipathic towards you.

    and also….don’t be surprised that the Founders out-thought you.
    samesex marriage will become legal through judicial fiat, just like abortion.

  175. said by the griefer supporting the biggest religious left candidate evah.

  176. Did Manfred Mann do anything that Springsteen didn’t cover?

    And vice versa.

  177. force your religious values into government.

    I asked you earlier. Religious values like feeding the poor? Religious values like eliminating the death penalty? Or like the Pope’s latest, religious values like taking care of the environment?

  178. kk karl.
    truth be told, my support for O is more triagebased at this point.
    like all my heroes, he has feet of clay.

    but bilary is dangerous for the country and mccain is just too freakin old.
    my grandfather died from melanoma, a lot of ppl die from that out here in the West, the rancher’s disease or the farmer’s disease they call it.
    plus mccain has the theocon baggage.
    ;)

    the repubs cant win without the theocons anymore. u have to suck up to them.

  179. maybee, no religion in government.

    provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and provide the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity……
    thats it.

    freedom of religion AND freedom from religion.
    that means no ones religion calls the shots.

  180. yet the nishidiot is orgasmic over the idea of Baracky becoming President, who admits that his church informs his politics.

  181. The bar would not serve glasses and bottles when (the late) Country Dick & Co would take the stage. Band members crowd surfing to the bar, where the bartender would por Jagermeister directly into Country Dick’s mouth.

    God, I miss that guy. Good, good times.

    “Hold still, maggot, so my boot doesn’t slip off of your face”

  182. The bar would not serve glasses and bottles when (the late) Country Dick & Co would take the stage. Band members crowd surfing to the bar, where the bartender would por Jagermeister directly into Country Dick’s mouth.

    The last time I saw them Dick was doing tequila shots out of an anatomically correct inflatable sheep’s pussy. On stage.

    no religion in government.

    provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and provide the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity……
    thats it.

    freedom of religion AND freedom from religion.
    that means no ones religion calls the shots.

    nishi, will you please go read a fucking history book before you post again.

  183. Richard Thompson rocks. 1952 Vincent Black Lightning.

    And, Slart, thanks for the wine heads-up. I saw that when I was there.

    Muse? Week. Honestly. I have a few Muse songs on my iPod, but there’s not a lot of “there” there.

    If we’re to bring our music to current – I’m all for Interpol. Other than that, most of the artists I like have been around for at least 10 years. I like to know a group has legs before I commit.

  184. haha, i meaned lotsa OLD ppl die from that out here in the West.
    praps “Al-Qaeda in Iran” and the “100 years in Iraq” and not knowin “any thing about economics” are evidence of senile dementia!
    hahaha

    which is it B Moes?
    is Goldberg right? is bigotry towards and intolerance of xians on the rise?
    or…does society really think xians are SMART and the highly educated DON’T dislike religious conservatives.
    haha, i’ll go with the data.

  185. and lookie….wat did i say about mitt?

    the theocons got the oldskool republicans by the short hairs.
    Huck for VP! w00t!

  186. praps “Al-Qaeda in Iran” and the “100 years in Iraq” and not knowin “any thing about economics” are evidence of senile dementia!

    I think it is more a sign of you being an idiot.

  187. all stereoptyping stems from cultural perception

    I culturally perceive that people who peddle bad stereotypes are idiots.

  188. is Goldberg right? is bigotry towards and intolerance of xians on the rise?

    Goldberg doesn’t say that.

    Is Doug Hooper right? Was Big Mo (PBUH) a warmongering pedophile?

  189. heh…look at Goldberg’s title.
    Evolution of Religious Bigotry.
    bigotry towards xians.

    “Recently, however, it seems as if Jesus fish have become outnumbered by Darwin fish.”

  190. that means no ones religion calls the shots.

    No ones anything does anything, nish. We’re a collective.
    If my minister told me that we should accept gay people and embrace gay marriage, should I then vote against gay marriage amendments?
    If I thought (as I do) that God doesn’t judge gay people and they should be allowed to marry, that I should vote the opposite way? Because I don’t want my religious beliefs to call the shots.

  191. u may say anything u like about Muhammed.
    bothers me not a whit.
    ima southparkian.
    publish it all.

  192. ????
    i wud hope ur minister has zero influence on your vote maybee.

  193. ima southparkian

    Y’know, she does seem a lot like Cartman….

  194. it seems as if Jesus fish have become outnumbered by Darwin fish

    That may be true. On my recent driving trip through California, I saw several campaign posters/bumper stickers, but for only two campaigns.
    Obama and Ron Paul. Yet they both lost the elections here.

  195. i wud hope ur minister has zero influence on your vote maybee.

    Why? Why would I go to him if he doesn’t influence me?

  196. Also, what about the second part of my question.
    I think God would want gay people to be able to marry and adopt children. What should I do to keep religion out of my vote?

  197. i wud hope ur minister has zero influence on your vote maybee.

    And you’re gonna vote for this guy?

    Obama wasn’t born into Wright’s world. His parents were atheists, an African bureaucrat and a white grad student, Jerry Falwell’s nightmare vision of secular liberals come to life. Obama could have picked any church — the spare, spiritual places in Hyde Park, the awesome pomp and procession of the cathedrals downtown. He could have picked a mosque, for that matter, or even a synagogue. Obama chose Trinity United. He picked Jeremiah Wright. Obama writes in his autobiography that on the day he chose this church, he felt the spirit of black memory and history moving through Wright, and “felt for the first time how that spirit carried within it, nascent, incomplete, the possibility of moving beyond our narrow dreams.”

    Obama has now spent two years in the Senate and written two books about himself, both remarkably frank: There is a desire to own his story, to be both his own Boswell and his own investigative reporter. When you read his autobiography, the surprising thing — for such a measured politician — is the depth of radical feeling that seeps through, the amount of Jeremiah Wright that’s packed in there.

    Right wing hit job? Uh, no.

  198. heh…look at Goldberg’s title.

    I did. And he still doesn’t say what you suggest.

  199. Though I often hear that Islamophobia is becoming endemic. I’m sure I could dig up a Doug Hooper quote.

  200. Er…epidemic, rather.

  201. it doesnt matter pablo hunnie….the singularity is just around the corner.
    im goin transhuman….the Suf are emminently pre-configured for that wedge of microsoft behind our ears. ;)

    goodbye now goodbye
    write down all i said
    tell tomdickanharry
    i laffed off my head.

    and she was…..

  202. eh, you must be really oooold, Nishi? That T.Head’s thing was so 1978! ever think about having kids? sorry, just maybe you should think about it. I mean, yes?

    teh Reich, die mas kinderhavem’ Volkem grossen. Mass voten, centurs en Iraqen. Est klien Prog’s sniffin’ hammerjibbin’ dimby kinder-noffen, nien en Kapital, nein en govern. sniffle, sniffle.

    get crack’n, sweetheart.

    Ah, Musik.

    Slart’s, Karl’s, Dan’s refined tastes can’t be beat…esp. such leftist bent stuff.

    Being crazy poor ppl, and unable to sit for long periods of repressed energy in 70′s era Big Capital sponsored prog-rock megaevents: my limited excuses:

    liked early to mid era Grateful Dead…but hated their concerts Unlike Anne Coulter who loved ‘em…endless Jerry Garcia drills of untuned meandering doodling and stupids in the dark….alright I saw that in SLC in the fukn. Salt Palace. w/ my mormon friend….so that probably ruined it. And dittos for the more modern Phish: even if Annastasio is practically my neighbor…they suck. But Fishman is a damned good drummer and he has a hot ex wife.

    not too many good concerts burned too many times in the 70s but loved Ian Anderson (Jethro Tull) but it was coincident with my one and only acid experience….(too much like Qualludes in fAkery and bad karma….peyote is soooo much more soulfull…and painfull…)

    kind of gave up on concerts after the 70s. like: what a waste of money. But then weirdest and interesting event was one in later 80s: the real Johnny B. Goode: King of Rock n Roll, Chuck Berry played at an outdoor stadium in the backcountry of rural America Vermont, Northest Kingdom they call it: About 70 years old, didn’t bother to tune his guitar at first, started out rough and drunk and then after 3 hours had every little country chick on stage under 20 y.o. dancing away orgasmically at My Ding a Ling or something equally raunchy. Unreal the Energy he had. He is the King of R.n.R. hands down.

    sort of like what I heard Springsteen had in his early days at bar stints…my ex mate said the same as you all about his energy too.

    Bela Fleck, someone said: Genius! a lot others too. you said ‘em.

  203. Really, you guys need to think of nishi as less of a conversational opponent, and more of a conversational dartboard that’s occasionally decorated with random gibberish.

    Oh, and she has no bullseye.

    I think alpuccino’s IQ is 151 only because he’s been chugging the stuff out of the bottle.

  204. Double-diget types might take that as a threat, but I wasn’t suggesting we should nail anyone to the wall and throw pointy things at them.

    Just to clarify, for the reading-impaired.

  205. Pingback: Friday Fun: The Beat Farmers [Karl]

  206. I am glad we’re finally talking about nishi, datadave, McCain!

  207. It is racist, racist I tell you, to even talk about your honkey white candidate, pasty face McOld.

  208. I think alpuccino’s IQ is 151 only because he’s been chugging the stuff out of the bottle.

    They’ve got IQ in drink form now?

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