tell you if your sin’s original.
Gateway Pundit notes this:
“Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America’s improbable experiment in democracy. Farmers and scholars; statesmen and patriots who had traveled across an ocean to escape tyranny and persecution finally made real their declaration of independence at a Philadelphia convention that lasted through the spring of 1787. The document they produced was eventually signed but ultimately unfinished. It was stained by this nation’s original sin of slavery…“  ÂÂ
 And… With those words Barack Obama condemned each and every American with the original stain of slavery.
Regardless of this nation’s glorious history
Regardless of the fact that America was one of the first nations to outlaw slaveryÂÂ
Regardless of the fact that hundreds of thousands of Americans fought in a war to rid this nation of slavery
Regardless of the millions of people this country set free from tyranny
Regardless of the 50 million Iraqis and Afghans this country set freeÂÂYou as an American– Are born with the “stain” of slavery.
You have a hereditary stain with which you are born with on account of this nation’s origin sin of slavery. ÂÂ
And how does one obtain absolution?  By voting for Obama and submitting to the program. Otherwise, you’re preterite.ÂÂ
Document cleaning. (a Serr8d joint)
Oh, who will come to redeem us of this sin?
It’s pretty bad when Obama is even setting himself up for martyrdom.
I believe in one Obama for the forgiviness of sinlinesses.
Either slavery is wrong or not. Moral relativism might say it was okay back then. But I think it better to denounce what was wrong and move on with what is right from back then.
According to Abigail Adams the Revolutionary War and what led up to it was the price for slavery. I respect her and the opinions of many of the early adopters of the abolitionist movement, but according to the Bible God is pretty clear about which actions are his.
“The document they produced was eventually signed but ultimately unfinished. It was stained by this nation’s original sin of slavery…“
Dear Senator,
My ancestors fought to free the slaves.
So fuck, the horse you rode in on, and all the Hussars trotting along behind you.
Yr ob’t srvt,
N. O’Brain
Sorry, but I’ve been absolved of this sin which I have committed only by virtue of my melanin deficiency by Obama’s moral and intellectual better, Walter Williams. I am guiltless, I am clean!
“You have a hereditary stain with which you are born”
Unfortunately, we have to bear the burden of those who refuse
to evolve. Too much inbreeding? It is a scriptural idea;
Leviticus 26:39
Those of you who are left will waste away in the lands of their enemies because of their sins; also because of their fathers’ sins they will waste away.
Even if symbolic, the clarity is apparent.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/us/politics/18campaign.html?_r=2&ex=1358312400&en=931431008ae91f30&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Slavery had been universal throughout human history. The only thing notable about America’s relationship with slavery is that we ended it not only here, but around the world.
Hey, Obamba. You’re welcome, asswipe.
My peeps was just hangin’ at Hastings one day back in, oh I don’t know, 1086 or so, just drinkin’ some mead, smokin’ some weed and gettin’ all jiggy and shit. And here comes fuckin’ William and his horde of Normans and fucks up their whole day. I was hittin’ Chirac up for some reparations and then that cat just kinda dissapeared, ya know. Now I’ve got to start all over again. Somebody owe me a living. Motherfuckers.
Has ‘cleo ever posted anything even remotely related to the topic being discussed? That is, when it is coherent enough to tell?
If you have a problem with original sin, take it up with Jesus.
Obama’s speech is undoubtedly a step forward in race relations. He took certain things off the table (he said that white fear of black crime is not 100% racist) and he derided Wright’s ideology as belonging to the past. Certainly, that’s convenient to him (a Sistah Soljah movement + putting this controversy behind him) but if blacks buy it, that’s good for the country as a whole. And those aren’t isolated examples.
Michelle Obama was crying at the end of the speech. And I don’t think they were tears of joy/pride/etc. She was ashamed that Barack sold out to the white man to stay in the race. I love it! I hate that bitch. I want to drink her delicious tears.
Uh, no.
He’s saying that America as a nation was born with the sin of slavery and likely means that America as a nation was cleansed from the “original sin” of slavery with the Civil War and the Emancipation Proclamation. He’s right.
Gateway Pundit is good at misreading things. I mean, really good.
That’s not what Obama said, AJB. It wouldn’t have afforded him any opportunity to try to walk the tight wire between justifying and rejecting his pastor’s views.
“He’s saying that America as a nation was born with the sin of slavery and likely means that America as a nation was cleansed from the “original sin†of slavery with the Civil War and the Emancipation Proclamation. He’s right.”
Or, that just words don’t mean much — its what we’ve done — destroy sin of slavery, destroy the wrong of Jim Crow, that is what redeems. No one can deny that slavery is wrong. And no one can deny that we are good to end it.
AJB, your italicized /nation/ betrays your collectivist point of view. Not a single individual American alive today had anything whatsoever to do with slavery – nothing.
And Obama stopped with the projection of the stain of original sin – which is as good an example as any of this embracing of Black Liberation Theology – and I utterly reject that dogma.
I am free of Obama’s stain. Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty I’m free at last.
“AJB, your italicized /nation/ betrays your collectivist point of view”
You don’t have to be a collectivist to accept that there are states and these states are founded with certain principles — and its no great leap to imagine that some of these are good and some are bad.
Yep, just like some churches have foundational principles, and those who choose to associate with them must bear some of the burden for them.
Unless, that is, they take overt positive steps to right the wrongs that those principles support.
Obamakin needs him some redemption, but all he willing to do is purchase indulgences.
Not a single individual American alive today had anything whatsoever to do with slavery – nothing.
I’m perfectly happy to condemn Obama for his ancestors’ role in it, since that’s how he wants to play it.
He can sign my reparations check himself.
(You know what blockquotes look like.)
I wonder what AJB and Obama reckon the odds were for the country being born at all if the founders had tried to outlaw slavery at the onset. And how things would have turned out if the nation hadn’t been born?
Either slavery is wrong or not.
You have proven yourself to be remarkably unserious on the other thread, but I’ll give it a shot. Howzabout you apply your standard, which I happen to agree with, to your own. Baracky told us today that Wright was from a different generation with different experiences, as though that made his noxious remarks somehow more palatable.
AJB – Linking to that cesspool balloon-juice as some kind of proof of the validity of your argument does not speak well for you.
Ah, how wonderful it must be to have the ‘blame slavery’ card in your pocket! It trumps all other cards and can be played at any time. Upon presenting said card, all critcism of descendants of slaves must cease at once. Anyone who may have had ancestors that had slaves, engaged in commerce with slaveholders, or even knew of slavery should feel guilty by association, so great is it’s power.
Step into that small confessional…
No reference too obscure, m’friend.
“I wonder what AJB and Obama reckon the odds were for the country being born at all if the founders had tried to outlaw slavery at the onset.”
And if you believe the story of original sin, we wouldn’t have the world of today either. Damn that Obama be deep!
“Howzabout you apply your standard, which I happen to agree with, to your own. Baracky told us today that Wright was from a different generation with different experiences, as though that made his noxious remarks somehow more palatable.”
To my own what? Wright’s statements are wrong. So are the statements of my homophobic parents. So are the statements of my acquaintance’s black grandmother that told him never to trust white people because she had seen the otherwise normal white people in her town turn into monsters during a lynching. Wrong. That don’t mean those people can’t do right.
“AJB – Linking to that cesspool balloon-juice as some kind of proof of the validity of your argument does not speak well for you.”
What is wrong with what is at the link?
LogCabin, how many monster cards must you send to the graveyard to summon said “blame slavery” card, and how many attack points does it carry?
My son is looking to put together a new “Yugio” deck….
What is wrong with what is at the link? – It is balloon-juice. Cole is a true conservative.
To your own people – your fellow leftist travelers. Baracky told us how Wright being from a different generation, having had different experiences colors his vision, and accounts for the manner and way in which he expresses himself.
What is it with these kiddies that either don”t know, or refuse to use grammar?
And if you believe the story of original sin…
I don’t. I don’t believe my self-awareness is a sin, I believe it is as much a blessing as a curse, which puts me at odds with many of the people I get pigeon-holed with. The simple facts are that at the time of this countries founding, slavery was a fact of life world wide. It went against the principles of many of the founders, and efforts had been started to end it, but the idea of our Constitution and the whole principle this country was founded on, that power derives from the people, was radical enough that it barely got off the ground as it was. If they had tried to abolish slavery on top of that they would have lost many of the colonies, and the effort would have been doomed. Freedom as we now know it would not exist.
Really?
So, I’m now trying to imagine the size of the friggin’ Tide Spot Stick it would take to get the stain out of the ‘mother-land’.
I mean, really.
Were not Africans sold into slavery by other Africans? You mean, even today, there aren’t folks…black and white…selling other human beings into human bondage? Slavery was and remains an atrocity that should be banished, but for Mr. O, and the rest of these race-baiting bastards to pretend that the U.S. has, by any measure, set the high-jump for moral atrocity, he’s more full of shit than we originally thought.
Do you think Target would carry a stain stick big enough to tackle the stains these bullshit peddlers have flung about?
[i]Three hundred sixty thousand (mostly white) americans[/i] died trying to end slavery during the civil war. The debt is paid in full. I just don’t want to here this shit any more.
Cheers!
ChrisP (Where the hell is ‘Preview’?
For “here” read “hear”.
ChrisP
Now you have not only gone off the deep end, you’e cliff-diving. What is the problem with people gravitating toward a church or theology that appeals to them, wants them to be better humans, and act toward that end. Obama could have picked up the social activism inherent in BLT, but do you really believe he has internalized ALL the racist aspects?
The preacher is a kook on the surface, but he is communicating an important message. He is reminding us that this shit hasn’t gone away, after all this time.
but do you really believe he has internalized NONE of the racist aspects?
Dear Senator,
My ancestors fought to free the slaves.
My great-great-great-grandfather left his farm, wife, and kids behind and arrived at a place called Pleasant Hill, Louisiana on April 9, 1864.
He didn’t come back.
You’re welcome, Barry, you slimy fuck.
– The race card is their holy grail….they will never give it up no matter what.
What is the problem with people gravitating toward a church or theology that appeals to them, wants them to be better humans, and act toward that end.
cynn: so you’re saying that if (say) McCain had attended a “Christian Identity” “church” for 20 years, got married there, had his kids baptized there, that you’d see “no problem” with that?
You don’t even believe your own bullshit. Don’t expect anyone else to believe it, m’kay?
I honestly don’t know that, JD. I can’t put myself in his place. Frankly, if I were in the position of a credibly black politician, I’d assume the mantle of the beseiged.
I’m not committed to him one way or the other. I am just wondering why this brouhaha is worth consideration.
The preacher is a kook on the surface, but he is communicating an important message. He is reminding us that this shit hasn’t gone away, after all this time.
And it probably won’t as long as he keeps screaming that white people are the enemy. Funny how that works. Not so funny that you can’t see it.
Somebody want to fix Pedanticliar’s comment in #7? Or at least fix the link that broke the page?
Fixing Pedanticliar would be ideal, but I don’t know any miracle workers.
Comment by cynn on 3/18 @ 7:45 pm #
Now you have not only gone off the deep end, you’e cliff-diving. What is the problem with people gravitating toward a church or theology that appeals to them, wants them to be better humans, and act toward that end. (The end is racism and hate of America, then you put some money in the tip jar) Obama could have picked up the social activism inherent in BLT, but do you really believe he has internalized ALL the racist aspects? (No, but him and his wife definately picked up on the anti-American/socialist parts)
The preacher is a kook on the surface, but he is communicating an important message. (I doubt very much you apply that right wing preachers) He is reminding us that this shit hasn’t gone away, after all this time. (They are helping it not go away asshole)
Semanticleo screwed up the formatting with the overly long URL.
Get tinyurl next time. Or, better, elementary HTML.
“…if I were in the position of a credibly black politician, I’d assume the mantle of the beseiged.”
In other words, you’d play the race card.
Good to know, cynn.
Comment by Semanticleo on 3/18 @ 6:37 pm #
Do you speak English?
If you haven’t seen it Newt gives Obama a real bitch-slappin’:
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/03/18/video-gingrich-lowers-the-boom-on-obama/
N. O’Brain: Why not? That’s the unfortunate direction this campaign has assumed.
This is the Democratic nomination cynn. That is the directions YOUR campaign has assumed.
Why not? That’s the unfortunate direction this campaign has assumed.
Once again, cynn, you seem to not recognize cause and effect. The campaign has assumed this direction because of Obama and Wright, if you think it is unfortunate, why the hell would you endorse it?
You guys have averted the campaign into the racism headlights. Reap the roadkill.
“Comment by cynn on 3/18 @ 8:28 pm #
You guys have averted the campaign into the racism headlights. Reap the roadkill.”
We weren’t driving the Popemobile.
Sorry.
Serr8d!
Fine with me; Obama prevails or destructs on his own. Just don’t give the jazz about his unsubstantiated religion. Don’t make it up as you go; I can do that.
Don’t make it up as you go; I can do that.
Obviously.
You guys have averted the campaign into the racism headlights. Reap the roadkill.
Yes, how horrible of us to point out that Obama has a racist pastor, has known about it for 20 years, and has done nothing to sever that relationship. All that shit is somehow our fault, because it is an actual factor worth consideration when determining whether a person is qualified to be the chief executive.
I’m not sure how you square that, but the internal dealmaking you must go through to do so has to be a convoluted thing of beauty.
and even more so in this case because there is so little “work history” to look at.
The intellectual pretzel conundrum…
“What is wrong with what is at the link? – It is balloon-juice. Cole is a true conservative. ”
What does that have to do with the link being wrong? It’s about al-qaeda and pentagon reports and newspapers.
“If they had tried to abolish slavery on top of that they would have lost many of the colonies, and the effort would have been doomed. Freedom as we now know it would not exist.”
Neither would we now exist were it not for “original sin.” You don’t have to believe in it to get the reference.
lol wut?
David Duke being from a different generation, having had different experiences colors his vision, and accounts for the manner and way in which he expresses himself.
Did I miss anything? You are specifically referring “black” slaves though, weren’t you? Wake me when we get to the part about indentured servitude and the comonality of sharecropping in the southern states ante-bellum. Thanks, Ustedes es muy amable.
I’d like to claim my ancestors fought to overturn slavery, but as near as the family memory can tell, my great-great-great grandparents on my father’s side were slaughtering settlers in the northern great plains while the Federals were distracted by General Bragg. They later took an extended vacation in Canada, crossing the border there about forty eight hours ahead of General Crook’s flying columns.
… and my European ancestors didn’t arrive until at least the 1870’s.
So, tell me, where’s my stain, Senator?
I love America. It’s my home, and it doesn’t matter what color I am or who my grandparents were – the sky is the limit. And as near as I can tell, Senator Obama is just another hack politician willing to shaft as many well- meaning but ill informed people as he has to to get the power he wants. His speech was designed to cast anyone who questions his candidacy as a racist and as an opportunity for the MSM to surrender to his narrative.
Oh, and to maybe kill Andrew Sullivan via a masturbation- induced seizure. There’s a mean streak in the Senator, make no mistake.
The founders would be pretty sad at what we’ve been reduced to putting up for candidates. Jefferson and Adams would both claim vindication for their views on the pitfalls inherent in representative government.
Not only that, but the Founders would slap us silly and say, “There’s a reason we put in that clause about no laws being bills of attainder or working corruption of blood: each generations sins and crimes are all its’ own. Only when you prove by your actions (and attending a church for 20 years qualifies) that you embrace the crime do we stain you with it.”
don’t feel bad, one can do worse than being called “simple, past tense”.
DAMN, both Dan and Obama are pretty good with words.
I think there is a ‘stain’ and that was that revenge was inflicted upon the African-Americans after the Civil War in a constant terrorist actions against that population and the ‘stain’ was ‘segregation’ and forced lowering of their chances to overcome the institutionalized racism inflicted upon them. We were the last major nation* to use slavery in a massive fashion and the fact that force was needed to stop it’s practice wasn’t accepted by the losers of that war…thus an insurgency of Southern Democrats (later to become Republicans in the middle of the 20th century) resisted the laws by constant restrictions upon the former slaves up ’til the sudden conversion of Southern Democrats into Republicans and that resentment of being forced to stop a ‘peculiar institution’ has lingered to this day. (Serfs in Russia were considered chattel up ’til the American Civil War but the Czar outlawed ‘slavery’ a bit before the Americans were able to outlaw it..and other Euro nations didn’t have a native slave population but may have allowed visiting arabs and such to retain them…I think Arabia is the only nation to not outlaw slavery to the present day or if it has is maybe last in the legal condemnation of it? (as the Koran allows it) Otherwise it’s a universal illegality if not enforced as it’s and some other places mostly in arab dominated nations in Africa: Sudan, etc.)
* check out the wikipedia definition of slavery and note that some smaller nations in Africa: Mauritania and “Ivory Coast” still have large nnumbers of ostensibly illegal slaves. (cocoa plantations in Ivory Coast? maybe something to worry about as to where your chocolate comes from?)
Southern Democrats became Republicans? No, dave. Republicans freed the slaves. See Lincoln. Then see Robert Byrd.
Also see a calendar. It’s 2008, you know.
Well.TMjU. On my mothers side there were slave holders and fighters of indigeonous peoples.On my fathers side were Germans and German Jews escaping universal conscription in 1870s Germany. So. As you can see I’m torn.
Preterition is like SO over.
Millions of people in this country who look as white as Martin Mull have “black blood.” And anyone who’s studied 18th c. history closely knows plenty of “blacks” owned slaves. In fact, one of the largest slaveholders at the time of the American Revolution lived in SC and owned over 200 humans. Virulent racism only grew during the 19th c. You’d need a new calculus to figure out who owes who and how much for the failing of slavery.
Hey, Dave –
…“thus an insurgency of Southern Democrats (later to become Republicans in the middle of the 20th century) resisted the laws by constant restrictions upon the former slaves…”
I guess there’s a price to pay when political expediency and not the objective reality of whether goals have been achieved, or not, on the ground, determines when an occupation ends, isn’t there?
Occupation ended as a sop to Southern democrats, if I remember correctly. The quid was Union troops headed home and the pro quo was that slavery as an institution wouldn’t be reinstated. But the wink and nod was that the Southern states could do what they wished to their black citizens short of slavery… which is kind of an abandonment of “equal under the law”, after which the rest of the ideals we shoot for here in America are become so much methane.
Geeze. Just where does all this fit in with today? There’s just something nagging at the back of my mind… like a wheel turning… go figure.
The Democrat Party has always been the party of the four S’s: slavery, secession, segregation and socialism.
This “land corrupted by the original sin of slavery” is, I believe, right out of Faulkner.
Someone recently read “It is his privilege to help man endure by lifting his heart, by reminding him of the courage and honor and hope and pride and compassion and pity and sacrifice which have been the glory of his past. The poet’s voice need not merely be the record of man, it can be one of the props, the pillars to help him endure and prevail”
OK, wait. I finally got to the end. It was right out of Faulkner. The whole idea, he says so at the end of the speech. Actually it’s out of the forward to one of the Faulkner collections. An intoduction to an exerpt from “The Hamlet” if I’m not mistaken, and I may be, I don’t have it with me.
The kid’s a writer, not a politician. That’s why he’s got more books out than floor votes.
One of the interesting exhibits at the Cabildo in New Orleans was about riots that would occur whenever a black was elected to office in the post-Reconstruction era Louisiana. Apparently those blacks were invariably Republican…
Original sin as a concept was not spoken by Barack as a allegory. If he believes the exegesis of scripture then Original Sin has a permanant real meaning to him that is at odds with the way some above have presented it. The clear implication is that the “stain” of Slavery (he never mentioned dataless dave’s contention of Southern Insurgency) carries forward, possibly for all time. In Christian Theology Jesus Christ is the stain remover. Obama presenting himself as, if not the remover, the conduit for removal is just a bit arrogant and somewhat offensive.
I’ve got a question. How am I to reconcile my situation as the grandson of Portuguese immigrants? Did my family inherit the original sin when we became citizens? Are we given a pass because many of my relatives suffered “second class citizen” status from whites? Did the Original Sin transcend American slavery and harken back to any Portuguese practices pre-America in the African slave trade?
Should I really give a flying crap about any of it? No.
The original sin doctrine as applied by Barack is offensive to anyone not of African heritage, regardless of their ancestry. I find it patently ridiculous to embrace a theology of forgiveness and mercy while at the same time asking for historical cover of black anger. I also find it hypocritical to excuse that anger within the context of MLK who expressed time and again the differences between anger/bitterness and righteousness.
Unless you are totally immersed in the “all people of color are second class citizens” meme then Obama’s rhetorical defense shield is nothing more than another justification of historical victimization carried forward. Get out your wallets: The reparation payments are going to hurt and they still won’t be enough to erase your inherited sin.
Swallow hard!
Sorry, but I’ve never owned any slaves. I don’t accept your judgment.
Care to try another hot button? You still have 4 tries left…
And can someone clean up semenstain’s long link?
I refuse to take responsibility for the actions of my ancestors. I am my own man. To hold, as man’s sin, a fact not open to his choice is a mockery of morality. To punish a man for a crime he committed before he was born is a mockery of justice. I will not accept unearned guilt. Nor will I allow some moron proclaiming my guilt to extort from me an unearned benefit for those who have never been wronged. No American-born citizen alive today has suffered from the institution of slavery.
I’m not sure what to do with my sins, Reverend. You see (true background) my mom’s side of the family descended from slave-owning Alabamians who fought for the Confederacy. So therefore, I am filled with original sin, right?
BUT…..my dad’s side of the family is descended from, well, slaves and also Northerners who fought on the side of Union.
Am I absolved? I’m so confused. Perhaps I shall pay reparations to myself.
The past only has value inasmuch as we learn from it to determine the direction of the future. Nursing grievances from Antebellum days, or from the Reformation, or the Middle Ages or the Crusades — that’s not learning from the past, that’s deliberately seeking to repeat it endlessly.