The blog at The American Prospect embeds a five-minute documentary on “Hollywood’s vilification of Arabs” to suggest that they are “Today’s Go-To Villains.” At The Atlantic, Ross Douthat responds in part:
So far as I could tell, the most recent clips are from Aladdin and True Lies, both of which are fifteen years old. In the seven years since 9/11, with the nation embroiled in a global struggle in which America’s most deadly and dedicated enemies tend to be, well, Arabic, Hollywood has turned out exactly one big-budget film featuring Arab villains: This fall’s The Kingdom.
To which I would add that anyone who has seen The Kingdom knows that film includes at least one Arab as one of the major heroes, another as a reformed terrorist who helps the FBI, and an ending with a kludged moment of moral relativism. In addition, it is quite something for the filmmaker to claim that Arabs are shown as cartoons in part because… they appear in cartoons. Wait until the lobbies for mice and ducks find out about this.
Indeed, single-entry bookkeeping is a large part of the video.  True Lies is heavily sampled in the video without mentioning that one of the main anti-terrorist agents is named Faisil, and one of the main villains, Juno Skinner, is of Asian descent.
Douthat also quotes Martha Bayles as claiming that even television’s 24 only makes violent jihadis the villains “once in a blue moon, when the Council on American-Islamic Relations is looking the other way.”
Daniel Larison takes issue with this last point, noting that jihadists “happen to be among the main players in no less than three of the six seasons.” This is true, though a review of the casts for each season shows that Larison exaggerates in claiming that the show “assembled a small army of Middle Eastern actors and extras over the years.”
Moreover, Larison also engages in single-entry bookkeeping, overlooking that 24 has also included Arabs or Muslims wrongly accused of terrorism, a former terrorist leader who renounces violence, a Muslim officer at the Counter-Terrorism Unit, etc. Conversely, non-Arabs have been the main villains in at least three of the show’s six seasons to date (there are story arcs where Arabs work with villains of other ethnic groups in a show of multi-cultural solidarity). Furthermore, it should — but apparently cannot — go without saying that 24 is one series that has had Muslim villains roughly every other year, which is not exactly a major slice of the spectrum of television programming available to the North American viewing public.
Neither the video nor Larison address cases like the film version of Tom Clancy’s The Sum of All Fears, in which Hamas-like Palestinian terrorists were replaced with European neo-Nazis. Indeed, as Reihan Salam observed at Slate:
Though a staple of political thrillers since the days of the Ayatollah Khomeini, Muslim terrorists on-screen have been dwindling in numbers since the mid-1990s.
This is demonstrated by the age of the clips in the video, as Douthat originally observed.
So, who are Hollywood’s real go-to villains?
In light of the current wave of anti-war agitprop flowing out of Tinseltown, it is tempting to say that it is stereotyped, deranged US military killbots, as in In the Valley of Elah and Redacted. Or perhaps even (albeit thinly veiled) the evil BushCo., as in Lions for Lambs or Rendition. But this would be mistaken.
Hollywood’s real go-to villain — of yesterday and today — is the American businessman. As the New York Times reported in 1987:
The American businessman has become television’s most popular villain. People who follow these things say the business executive appears as a character on prime-time television an average of 14 times each week, often as the ”bad guy,” murdering, stealing, lying and cheating his way into the popular consciousness.
***
”Generally, few people in the television industry dispute the fact that businessmen on TV today are the heavies out of all proportion to reality,” said Michael Pack, the director of an upcoming documentary for the Public Broadcasting Service, ”Hollywood’s Favorite Heavy: Businessmen on Prime Time TV.”
Eighteen years later — after 9/11 — the trend remained the same:
About the only villains left are terrorists and CEOs — and terrorists will probably be portrayed as sympathetic long before CEOs, says Robert Thompson, director of the Center for the Study of Popular Television at Syracuse University.
Is that an exaggeration? A 2005 study by the Business & Media Institute (itself a follow-up to a 1995 study) found that:
According to primetime TV, you are 21 times more likely to be kidnapped or murdered at the hands of a businessman than the mob. Businessmen also committed crimes five times more often than terrorists and four times more often than gangs.
The B&MI found similarly dismal results in a study of the 16 films that received 2005’s 30 nominations for the top Oscar awards. A pervasive venom for American capitalists is entirely consistent with the worldview of most content producers in Hollywood. And American businessmen (and businesswomen) — generally being occupied with things other than murder, dealing drugs or ordering rivals beaten – has neither the time nor the inclination to form a grievance lobby to harass Hollywood into depicting them in a more positive light.
Not all muslims are our enemies but many of our enemies are muslim.
And, how often are villians – if a political party is presented – Conservative/republican? At times, it may not be overt, but suggested by stereotype.
Today’s Hollywood writer – unable to break free from a childhood spent watching Scooby Doo.
Ummm…. Isn’t everyone in Aladdin an Arab? The good guys, the bad guys, the extras… Everybody but Robin Williams, that is.
I’m pretty sure the parrot is from Brooklyn.
Today’s Hollywood writer – unable to break free from a childhood spent watching Scooby Doo.
And they would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren’t for those pesky
kidsbloggers.eyeah, I’ll bite but have to really go to work soon…just so you’ll not waste too much time ‘wasteing’ me with your usual conservative nastiness. Anyway. I’ll agree for once, Businessmen are portrayed as villains for mass production entertainment..,.simply for a good reason….: For most people, the Boss, the CEO, the Republican elite, whatever ARE the Villains.
Now, you can say its “uninformed”, irresponsible, unjust for all the Ayn Rand type of reasoning…but the fact that the guy who screws the most people out of their hardearned money is in fact that so-called businessman, salesguy, Republican, etc.
Arabs are rarely hurting the average American joe or jill….but look at the gas prices, crappy jobs, Blackwater’s no bid contracts to harass and intimidate people in a disaster zone…which could everywhere in Amerika if these businessmen keeping shipping or productive capacities to China or Mexico…and on and on.
But it’s true….Dan or whomever. The Terrible Dishonesty done to “business” people with Liberals in Hollywood (A VAST left wing conspiracy as it they are ‘businesspeople’) portraying the Business Class as ‘villains’. We’re all in business too..so maybe we’re ‘self-hating’ needing a diet and more exercise.
maybe if they lowered the cost of ‘first class’ so mere mortals could afford to get on-board airplane service….or better yet jobs with better pay for the many ‘new’ service jobs available (and little else).
“…but the fact that the guy who screws the most people out of their hardearned money is in fact that so-called businessman, salesguy, Republican, etc.”
There you have it, the people that dave chooses to give money to are screwing him, the government that takes his money regardless of his wishes is not. You are beyond stupid, dave.
maybe if all those Fox Commentators stopped wearing suits we Liberals would stop stereotyping Republicans (=Businessmen).
It’s the Suits. Suits are a image of the Politburo, Mormon Missionaries and High Pressure Salesguys.
you hardly see Bill Gates or Warren Buffet in a suit anymore. Why?
bmoe…you’re reverting to type…gotcha
not much ‘choice’ about gas prices. Just drive less I guess.
tell me your excuses for subprime mortgages as example holier than thou businessguy. It’s all the Sheeple’s fault that bankers lied and have the govt. bailing them out for their lies.
villainy in business is the idea that someone thinks he can get a lot of money for nothing …or just because he voted for Bush. Subprime mortgages sold to poor black women (see NYTIMES) with lack of oversight and dishonesty is why businessmen are getting bad press.
And Blackwater too. Let’s hear it for the Privatized Military and how they’ll drum up more business.?? bmoe, your idiot conservatism has led us into a recession and maybe a depression. Can’t blame the Liberals this time.
You know who screws the most people out of their hard-earned money? DirecTV, that’s who.
…..and Godfather III. I’ll never get that 2+ hours of my life back. What was I thinking? P.U.
“not much ‘choice’ about gas prices. Just drive less I guess.”
See if you weren’t an idiot, you wouldn’t have to guess at something so obvious. Let me help you with some other solutions: walk, ride a bike, use public transportation, drive a more fuel efficient vehicle. I am not rich by a long shot, and these are the things I do.
simon li loves the sub-prime
My wife and I just watched “The Kingdopm” last night and the very end of that movie reinforced a belief that I have about that part of the world that I developed during my stay in the kingdom. It is this; nothing will ever change in the Middle East until they start to love thier children more then they hate us.
The Hollywood Writers’ strike has gone on for months. Does anyone in the general public care?
Hollywood should open its eyes and realize that they are indeed irrelevant to America.
“tell me your excuses for subprime mortgages as example holier than thou businessguy. It’s all the Sheeple’s fault that bankers lied and have the govt. bailing them out for their lies.”
How many people have home mortgages, datadave? How many of them defaulted? What are the percentages of subprime loans that defaulted? The subprime people who didn’t default, do you want to tell them they shouldn’t have been allowed to buy their new house, that they were too stupid to know what they were doing? Give me some numbers, datadave, live up to your name.
bmoe…my business requires driving. I can’t cut down and can’t get a loan for some mega expensive fuel efficeing truck that Detroit won’t even make for my tastes.
I am just talking reason here. not namecalling…I will do the name calling later if you like but I am probably not as deft or practiced as the general conservative writer is.
you points about subprime are apt in that it’s a minority or problems but apparently the “suits” know something we don’t. Lot’s of Billions are up in smoke (and mirrors). In general the level of debt we have (generally)is too high. People with ordinary incomes with adjustable rate mortgages and often forced to own two homes are probably a bigger problem.
and moe, it’s the Ripple effect of gas prices. I personally could get along with 6 or 7 bucks a gallon…but can UPS, Walmart, etc. All these businesses are forced to raise prices…so ‘choice’ doesn’t matter.
why do you see GWBush scurrying like a cockroach to his friends in the Kingdom begging them to lower oil prices even though little of our oil comes from the Saudis. Scurrying like a cockroach. Said it again. Just saw Bushbaby on the news with all those Arab ‘entreprenuers’ Begging!!
wish u had a trustfund now doncha?
me too!
“…my business requires driving.
…
why do you see GWBush scurrying like a cockroach to his friends in the Kingdom begging them to lower oil prices even though little of our oil comes from the Saudis. Scurrying like a cockroach. Said it again. Just saw Bushbaby on the news with all those Arab ‘entreprenuers’ Begging!!”
You probably should pull over to the side of the road, dave, at least until the hallucinations stop.
bmoe, your idiot conservatism has led us into a recession and maybe a depression
datadave is now pontificating using his own definitions of economic terms.
I probably miss-assumed….oh well. you all probably already Have Trustfunds and just dabble at work. That’s why you don’t have to work.
c ya. gotta go do some ‘business’.
Screw all this economic talk — I wanna know how I can be forced to own another house.
And a sailboat. Please, won’t somebody force me to own a sailboat?!
So datadave, your point is that corporations are the true enemy ? As opposed to muslim fanatics ? I want to make sure I’m clear on what you’re trying to say.
I also have to agree with Al about godfather 3- the only thing I remember about that movie was the size of Sophia Copola’s nose. Which probably means I’m prejudiced against italians, even though that would be news to me.
Datadave–
It was Congress that relaxed credit standards for subprime loans. Looking for a banker/villan is barking up the wrong tree.
The Saudis cannot change the price of oil, it doesn’t work like that.
I’m assuming that the “smoke and mirrors” comment means that you have never taken out a loan, much less a mortgage, yourself?
*oh well. you all probably already Have Trustfunds and just dabble at work. *
Neither my dad or mom finished college and both worked until retirement and we were very lower middle class. There was no trust fund and there was very little money. I’m where I am because I worked at it, stayed out of trouble, used the few gifts I had. I’m a republican also because republicans value working harder and smarter. Plus, I had to take out ridiculous amounts of student loans to cover law school so I suspect you live higher on the hog then I do, despite the money I make.
And plus, if I had a trust fund, wouldn’t that mean somebody busted their ass at some point to make that money. I find most people who hate corporations do so because corporations force you to work for a wage, as opposed to the democratic party, which is consistently pro-handout.
“you all probably already Have Trustfunds and just dabble at work.”
Could I probably also be married to a supermodel and own a yacht and a Gulfstream? That would be cool!
Getting back to the point of the post, if I were going to answer the question posed in the title, it would be, moviegoers.
Actually, I have seventy-two trustfunds. My work is Conquering The Planet With Evil Schemes. When not dabbling at it, I’m driving a converted Stretch Hummer that gets seven gallons to the mile (the coal-burner I attached spews extra Gaia-killing gases into the air). I own 59.34% of all business in the country. A small chunk of that is spent forcing reporters at gunpoint to wear suits instead of hemp tunics and faux-leather Birkenstocks.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Fear me, datadave! Fear me and tremblingly cower in the shadow of my power to destroy your life! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
I am not wealthy, I have a mediocre job, rent a small apartment, and have a old, piece of shit convertible that runs about half the time. I have the job I have because it doesn’t require a lot of physical labor, and it provides insurance and a company truck, with gas card. The pay, however, isn’t particularly great. The thing is, though dave, I realize and freely admit that I am where I am at this point in my life because of my own choices and irresponsibility. I drank, did drugs, gambled, chased women, and tried to play music for a living while other people were working, saving money, starting businesses and families, and being responsible and making sacrifices then to provide a better future for themselves and those around them. I can think of nothing more greedy than for me to demand that those people now give me the fruits of their labor to compensate me for my foolish youth. They paid then for the fun they are having now, I am paying now for the fun I had then.
rto….the Congress was doing the Banking industrie’s bidding…of course ‘de-regulation’ has been going on a long time.
bmoe, i just didn’t want to assume anything. i am sort of self employed. Actually, ‘our’ clients tend to have trustfunds. That’s why it’s a laid back business and not really ‘business’ at all. No one offers health insurance now in the construction business except for low]paying large companies that really don’t pay well enough. It’s a trade off. I never had half the fun you’re describing but am still “poor”…which from what I gather is anyone less than 50 K a year. It’s gotten that bad with “inflation”. Stats are showing a huge income gain only in the top 1 percent and that’s what’s bugging people.
I don’t see any solutions from the Conservative side of things and precious little from Democrats either. Give me a few…but just wallowing in self pity isn’t my cup of coffee thank you. Move on and don’t blame yourself. And demand change. Obviously conservative politicians have stacked the deck against middle class people.
I remember when Reagan and Monnighan a conservative Democrat raised payroll taxes to astronomical levels and now only income below 100K goes into that that the top 1 percent has gotten most of all the tax cuts and almost no health care costs. Payroll taxes now take more than federal income taxes but no one’s talking about that on the Republican side of things. They still want to give the top 1 percenters tax relief.
rto….the Congress was doing the Banking industrie’s bidding…of course ‘de-regulation’ has been going on a long time.
So it’s all a conspiracy. Right out in the openlike that to diver suspicion no doubt.
The market was clammoring for it–people wanted to buy homes.
Have you found out yet, how oil prices get set?
I’m still assuming that the “smoke and mirrors†comment means that you have never taken out a loan, much less a mortgage, yourself?
“Give me a few…but just wallowing in self pity isn’t my cup of coffee thank you. Move on and don’t blame yourself. And demand change.”
If you work hard and are still poor, then you are doing something wrong, dave. YOU. Don’t demand change of others, fucking change yourself! I am not wallowing in self-pity, I am doing what I can to make up for my fuck ups. What I can, dave, not demanding someone else do it for me.
…now only income below 100K goes into that that the top 1 percent has gotten most of all the tax cuts and almost no health care costs. Payroll taxes now take more than federal income taxes but no one’s talking about that…”
No one is talking about that because it is fucking gibberish. If you are kind of self-employed, you might want to consider taking on a partner who has a bit of a clue, dave.
Datadave, your demonstrated lack of understanding of what should be common sense items is astounding as well as your lack of perspective and insight. As to business-persons (let us be PC here) sticking it to the little guys, those business people are in business to make money which so happens to be the same reason most people do anything in this world, to make money. There is nothing (I will repeat so you know I did not make a mistake) nothing wrong with making money. What is wrong is cheating the system to make money, something that (despite your “opinionâ€Â) most business people do not do. Most businesses people do not cheat the system because cheating the system is bad business; it eventually catches up with you and costs you your job. Yes there are exceptions (like Enron) but they are just that, exceptions.
The rest of your rants sound more like envy than anything else because you have made the wrong choices in your life and do not have a job that both fulfills you and provides you with the income that you feel you deserve.
You deride banks for the recent mortgage problems forgetting that we are in this mess because of the government. They pressured the mortgage industry to make loans to people who would not normally have qualified. As a result, a lot of ARM loans were issued. Then as can happen, the interest rates went up and some of those folks could no longer afford their loans. It also just so happens that a lot of those defaulted loans were to speculators that purchased multiple homes hoping to make a bundle in the house market cause home prices were going up. When the market fell and interest rates started to climb, they were caught in the middle.
You talk about gas prices, have you seen what battled water sells for? People cry about gas but still manage to get their double-lattés at Star Bucks.
If you can’t afford a car, a house or to fly first class, either switch to a career that will enable you to afford those things or do without. Don’t come crying to everyone else because you made louse life choices.
I wonder whether datadave has figured out where those payroll taxes are going yet.
The reason his federal taxes are lower than his payroll tax burden, republican tax cuts! The dems want to repeal them! Unbelievable.
Cluelessness, thy name is datadave.
Proposed mortgage bailouts – Is the government bailing out homeowners (voters) so they can stay in their houses or giant banking corporations who can absorb the losses? You be the judge datadave.
He said, in the same thread in which he’s made a whole slew of assumptions.
FWIW, not that it’ll budge your leaden set of preconceptions, I was born fairly poor. My family was kept fed largely through donations from our church and neighbors, at times, up until I was five years old or so. So, no trust fund, here. I put myself through college, never owned a car until I was 22, and now manage a small group of engineers working advanced algorithms for fire control sensors. It’d be nice to be rich, but I doubt I’ll be getting there anytime soon.
I drive a 12-year old Honda Accord, if that matters. Given the price of gasoline, I’m constantly regretting getting rid of my last car, which was my first new car ever, a thirteen-year-old Nissan Sentra that still got 30 mpg in city driving.
I’m still trying to figure out how I can be forced to own two homes. Will somebody please point me to the appropriate agency?
I mean, I suppose it’s possible that you could be more wrong, dave, but I think it’s impossible for you to be a great deal more wrong. I don’t think you’re going to find your holy grail of besuited, hidebound conservatives here. Maybe if you looked where they are, you’ll have better luck.
Where? Don’t ask me. I know some people who are moneyed, and act and dress the part, but I don’t frequent those circles.
Never heard an economic effect named after cheap wine, before. I suppose all things are possible.
Good point, Slart. The gas I get from the Ripple effect isn’t all that expensive.
The ripple effect I get from gas prices is when the cost of a can of Campbell’s bean an bacon soup goes up or down. When it goes on sale – watch out – serious ripples and de winde, OMG.
The thing that always makes me giggle about the Eeeeeevil Businessman trope is that Hollyweird is both driven by and beholden to the most soulless pointy-haired mismanagers on the face of the planet. The closest they come to reality is in their usual depiction of one of their closest relatives, the Slimy Record Company Exec. (Well, write what you know, I suppose.)
And yet their little misbegotten make-believe allegories are supposed to be chiding us for our shortcomings, so we may be raised to enlightenment. Or at least hoisted up by the waistband of our tightie-whities so we can see what it looks like.
BECAUSE OF … eh, ‘t’ain’t worth it.
Aw, crap. A perfectly good joke, down the drain.
As far as I know, Thunderbird is still around. Pretty much the same thing, unless you are some kind of wine connoisseur.
If you wonder who Hollywood really hates, recall “The DaVinci Code”. Even the nuns were in on the murderous secret. Nobody who had ANY religious faith was anything but a conniving murderer. Really sickening, even though I had a vague idea it was anti-religion before my wife r borrowed the movie.
It is to laugh. Yeah, businessmen are evil, soul-less, bastards who would push their grandmas in front of a bus to make another buck. Hmm, I wonder if any of those types exist in the movie business?
What’s even funnier–well, for anyone smarter than droolingdave–is how many industries like big media, Wall Street, technology, venture capital, to name a few, are dominated by Democrats. *gasp!*
Actually, no, the biggest chunk of cash that I am forced to give up goes to the taxman. Oddly, the actual source of that cash is a business, which millions of people voluntarily frequent.
Weird. It’s like one of us is living in bizarro world.
Dad was a Teamster. Mom was an administrative assistant at a non-profit children’s hospital. They scrimped and saved to put their kids through college.
I worked hard in high school and college. I took one of the hardest majors at a university with a pretty good reputation in that area. It took me 4.5 years to finish my undergraduate degree, and that was pretty much average for my classmates.
I’ve sacrificed a hell of a lot to develop my professional skills to where they are. I have a professional library that I’ve never seen paralleled, and with the exception of a single book I just bought, I’ve read every one of them. I’m considered the “go-to guy” on some rather esoteric subjects. I consider it a light week when I just have to put in 40 hours, and last year the first day I took off work was in August.
Once more, you’re debating the phantoms in your head, not the people actually present here. You’re another lefty bigot, more interested in propping up your self-image with your bigotry than actually learning about anyone or anything.
I’m with Big Dan — the people Hollyweird hates most are the religious. I’d follow that with anyone to the right of McCain, then businessmen. Their preferred heroes are lawyers and “activists” who typically do more harm than good.
Fer crissake, how many movies have been made with Che Guevara as the hero? And how many have shown refugees from Castro’s Cuba in a positive light?
Obviously conservative politicians have stacked the deck against middle class people.
This is only “obvious” in your world, datadave. Or as John Edwards would say, in your America.
I should have had a trust fund, but unfortunately my Great Grandpa’s fortune piddled out with my Grandpa. It’s really amazing that my Steel Baron Rethuglian ancestors weren’t able to just get richer and richer. On the backs of the poor, you know. The whole “Rags to riches to rags” reality of American wealth (except for the uber) just doesn’t fit with the narrative.
Despite not having a trust fund, I don’t work. My husband does. I’m a housewife, and a homeschooling mom.
Last time datadave was at large on this site, he mentioned that he has a cleaning lady.
He hired someone to pick up his poo-poo undies. Nothing wrong with that, but to deride the idea of having success in life, while claiming to be poor, because the evil big business Republicans won’t let a brother get up, and the squeeze from inflation, yet still can have a lady come in and vacuum up his boogers – it smacks of a disconnect. And don’t go laying off your cleaning lady now datadave. If you do, then you will be The Man.
Squid: regarding being forced to own two homes — he was probably referring to people who financed a new home figuring they could sell their old home at a nice profit in a boom market. But it wasn’t a boom market anymore, and now they’re stuck with two mortgages, and upside down in both of them. Sadly I know at least four otherwise nice and sensible people in that situation.
Oh, fer crissake!
I trust you’re unfamiliar with the term, “moral hazard,” cynn?
Probably is what was being referred to….but….
I’m still failing to see the force involved.
Comment by Carin on 1/15 @ 7:21 am
And, how often are villians – if a political party is presented – Conservative/republican? At times, it may not be overt, but suggested by stereotype.
——
Well with the popularity of Reality TV recently it’s not surprising that this representation of evil will become more and more overt.
To me, being “forced” to own more than one home pertains to the existence of tax-subsidized public housing…
Yes, there are people trapped in mortgages. I myself was trapped in a mortgage, when the bottom fell out of the Texas housing market. My own doing; I changed jobs and moved out of state, and I couldn’t even keep the place rented.
I blame…lemme see, who was president at the time? Reagan! I blame Reagan!
Oh, and the Saudis, for making oil so cheap that Texas oil wasn’t worth the cost required to lift it above the clay.
kelly – I doubt most libs have heard of let alone understand the term “moral hazard.” If they did, how could they in good conscience heep funding the programs that they do – unless, they are just buying votes. Silly me, I forgot.
Re: the subprime loan fiasco.
It doesn’t bode well for those who want to let all Americans manage Social Security privately.
You’ll run into the same problem, and will need the government to bail out those who lose their retirement.
Better to stick with the solution that is working (at least for the next 45 years, conservatively).
Hollywood should hate realtors.
Hollywood can’t hate realtors. In those rich communities, where hollywood types live, you can’t swing a cat w/o hitting a realtor. Half of ’em are probably married to one.
“Better to stick with the solution that is working (at least for the next 45 years, conservatively).”
You get my vote for the most (unintentionally) hilarious comment of the week. Social Security is “working” only in the way that would make Ponzi cackle like Hillary.
It doesn’t bode well for those who want to let all Americans manage Social Security privately.
Does it bother you that we tend to make decisions based on the most moronic amongst us? To me, it doesn’t seem like a winning strategy designed to get people to take care of themselves, it sounds like a system designed to make people dependent on mother government.
Yup, Robert. All uv uss mowrons r two dumm to make r one desishuns.
I am so tire of this “sub prime disaster” sky is falling bullshit. Over 97% of mortgages are just fine. The other 3% are not going to take down the biggest strongest economy in the history of the world.
Why? Because people made bad choices? I’ve not heard of a realtor holding a gun to someone’s head to force them to buy.
What next? Holding people who play romantic music responsible for STDs and unwanted pregnancies?
“poorâ€Â…which from what I gather is anyone less than 50 K a year.
OMG, RTO! that’s us! I’m headin’ for the welfare office…..
ugh, my html skillz failed there.
“What next? Holding people who play romantic music responsible for STDs and unwanted pregnancies?”
LOL!
Wasn’t that Tipper Gore’s issue?
Bill Kristol, er, I mean JD,
I’ll keep your prediction in mind.
BTW, what do you want to do with the 3% who blow their retirement insurance policy? Let them die poor?
That’ll work out for everyone (eyes rolling).
Another classic “penny-wise, dollar-foolish” argument from the Right.
Kelly,
The “Ponzi scheme” helped build the American middle class by allowing the working class from being bogged down trying to keep their parents from starving to death.
Education guy,
Let me know the day you think the government should spend $0.00 on any plan to that will assist businesses.
I know a plan the government should spend $0.00 on that will assist businesses. I call it the “Leave them the fuck alone” plan.
ugh, my html skillz failed there.
Oh … poor Maggie. So poor, she can’t even afford html.
“BTW, what do you want to do with the 3% who blow their retirement insurance policy? Let them die poor?”
What the fuck do you think happens now if you don’t have a private retirement account to go with Social Security? You think people on Social Security only aren’t poor? What I want is that money that goes into SS put into a real account that pays real dividends instead of being a slush fund for pork barrel vote buying. The system we have now is madness and only worked this long because of a dramatically imbalanced population. Any honest person of moderate intelligence should be able to see it is a horrible way to run a retirement account and cannot continue with the age demographic shifting the way it is.
Yes, people who blow all their money should be poor. That’s how reality works. Otherwise, I’m gonna blow all my money and them come looking for my handout that puts me back in comfort. And then I’m gonna blow that. And then I’ll be back looking for another handout to bring me back to comfort. And then I’ll go out and blow that….
How long can I ride that train anyway?
Let’s see, we have a choice between 97% of retirees being in pretty good shape due to the investment choices they made, versus 0% of retirees being in pretty good shape because the government pyramid scheme fell apart.
You’re right, Bob in BS, this math stuff really is hard.
I tell you what, Bob, I just decided to start a company that offers a supplemental retirement income. You give me 10% of what you make, I don’t know exactly what I am going to do with the money yet, I might buy Savings Bonds with part of it, I will probably use most of it to support me and my friends and advertise for new investors. It doesn’t really matter, because I don’t have to tell you anyway. When you retire, the money you get will be whatever I decide, it won’t be based on what you paid in at all. Honestly, it will basically be the bare minimum it takes to keep you from kicking my ass. So are you ready to sign up? No?
I wouldn’t either, and that is why you don’t have a choice. If it were a choice, only a blithering idiot would opt in.
Oh, shit, Bob, your are serious, aren’t you?
I’ll concede your point about the last 45 years but I want some of whatever you’re medicating yourself with if you think the current structure of SS will last anywhere near that long from now.
I’m guessing your math skillz aren’t the greatest but try to follow along, ‘kay? The reason SS has been “solvent” (and, boy, do I use that term reservedly!) is that since about 1970 or so there were roughly 6-7 people paying into the system for every person receiving benefits. With me so far? Good. In roughly 12-15 years, only about 2-3 people will be paying into the system for every person receiving benefits. Does that sound sustainable to you? If I were under age 30 (alas), I’d be furious every time I got my paycheck and saw my FICA deduction. Talk about no lube nor a reach-around.
In the immortal words of our resident savant, happyfeet: “Stupid is sustainable.”
Oh, and that lockbox Gore was blabbing on about in the 2000 election? Full of nothing but IOUs courtesy of the US Congress. Worthless paper. Benefits will have to be cut, the eligible age will need to be raised, and–something to warm the heart of every Democrat–taxes will have to be raised. A lot. Great plan. Ponzi would be so proud.
Bob – Yup, that 3% should be responsible for the results of their own actions. Now, I know that is a foreign concept to you, living in MA, under the umbrella of the Kennedy’s and Kerry’s, but outside of the Soviet Socialists Republic of MA, where football coaches don’t cheat, some people take and accept the consequences of their actions, and do not see the State as being responsible for them.
kelly – Actually, it is more like they are giving them a Dirty Gleenwald without the K-Y.
But it’s true….Dan or whomever. The Terrible Dishonesty done to “business†people with Liberals in Hollywood (A VAST left wing conspiracy as it they are ‘businesspeople’) portraying the Business Class as ‘villains’. We’re all in business too..so maybe we’re ’self-hating’ needing a diet and more exercise.
I realize it’s a silly thing to nitpick, but random capitalization of words always makes me wince (even when I’m reading crap like the above). I work with people who do the same thing; it just makes me think that they let their kid or pet type it up for them. datadave, you get an ‘F’ on content either way – just trying to offer some suggestions in case you want people to do anything other than scroll past your nonsense.
JD, I have no idea what a dirty Greenwald is nor do I think I want to. But Bob may know, since he’s plumb copacetic about the current system.
JD, I have no idea what a “Dirty Gleenwald” is although I can hazard a guess. But I’d wager Bob must know since he’s just copacetic with the current shell game know as Social Security.
Oops. Mea Culpa.
kelly – It is best that you not know.
Gawd. It is gratifying to see so many fans’ collecting here. Jeesh, been gone over half a day and you conservatives (and maybe few other types) are still yelling and stammering about whatever I started.
Love this one: “He hired someone to pick up his poo-poo undies. Nothing wrong with that, but to deride the idea of having success in life, while claiming to be poor, because the evil big business Republicans won’t let a brother get up, and the squeeze from inflation, yet still can have a lady come in and vacuum up his boogers – it smacks of a disconnect. And don’t go laying off your cleaning lady now datadave. If you do, then you will be The Man.”
It’s like I have an on-line life of it’s own. My detractors and critics and all.
yeah, I pay 80 a month for a ‘cleaning lady’. It’s another reason maybe I am “poor” but it’s worth it as I was a “Janitor” for a year or so and sucked at it. So it’s my priorities, not your’s. I drive a 1990 Volvo. that’s Cheap! maybe $1300 a year maintenance plus gas, insurance, and no debts. It’s got 240K miles and I can get another 100K easy off it and my mechanic is certified and only charges at most 40 an hour… and sells parts at cost (his shop the Volvo dealer, charges 70 an hour but being a neighbor and “moonlighting” I get a deal).
Yowl all you want I am a Keech eating, French loving Volvo driving LiBl.
LiBl?
I’m pretty sure the first part is for Lithium, but I’m drawing a blank on what the ‘Bl’ stands for. Balance? Lithium-balanced?
It’s all becoming clear to me now!
Just 2 observations in respose to the perpetually unaware. If you can afford a cleaning lady, you are not poor. If you are poor and you are paying a cleaning lady, it is not the least bit surprising that you are poor. And, you are a sexist. It is now cleaning person.
FWIW, data. I was at Sam’s Club earlier, and they had industrial sized boxes of Depends on sale. You ought to check that out.
Yowl all you want I am a Keech eating
Keech?
Is that some sort of insect?
Or do you mean quiche?
Moron.
Huh. That’s what *I* think, too, about things like sucking my tax money away to provide support to people who refuse to get off their asses and work.
Maybe he meant Keach? Not that there’s anything wrong with that.