As usual, Krugman comes in later and dumber than anyone else chiming in on the Frostfuffle, an economist who doesn’t see how subsidizing improvidence creates a disincentive toward planning, and shows as much curiosity toward the actual facts of the case (Eg., why didn’t auto insurance cover them? If they’re already covered by SCHIP, then why the need for expansion? Why is this program aimed at children covering so many adults?) as Tumulty did.
Krugs says that this ought to be “a teaching moment.” But without some real investigation, there’s really nothing to teach, because Krugs has not learned anything germane to the issue. In fact, his turgid half-truths and overgeneralizations demonize his opponents even as he accuses them of demonizing others, much like Ezra Klein:
All in all, the Graeme Frost case is a perfect illustration of the modern right-wing political machine at work, and in particular its routine reliance on character assassination in place of honest debate. If service members oppose a Republican war, they’re “phony soldiersâ€Â; if Michael J. Fox opposes Bush policy on stem cells, he’s faking his Parkinson’s symptoms; if an injured 12-year-old child makes the case for a government health insurance program, he’s a fraud.
Meanwhile, leading conservative politicians, far from trying to distance themselves from these smears, rush to embrace them. And some people in the news media are still willing to be used as patsies.
I’m not saying Graeme Frost is a fraud, you moron. He’s a kid–who’s been let down by his parents and used by politicians. You, on the other hand, ARE a fraud, pretending to knowledge and insight you do not possess, and causing others perhaps not so well situated to make payments on your compassion.
From SondraK:
Serial exaggerator to be held accountable  someday
Huh! I thought it was going to be about Al Gore.
Brilliant idea regarding Krugman from the comments. We will pay not to have the NYT make his material available online.
UPDATE: That terrible woman, Michelle Malkin, who Jonathan Chait claims is for righties who don’t find Coulter extreme enough, publishes an email from a stalker lying smear artist neighbor of the Frosts:
They’re good people. Terribly misguided, pathetically leftist buffoons, but still good people. It was a terrible accident and Bonnie is quite beat up with guilt over the events. Lots of neighbors pitched in to cook meals and help out… Bonnie works half time doing freelance editorial work and Halsey, an incredibly disorganized lovable goofball, just can’t seem to hold down a proper job or, when he’s tried, to run a proper company. He’s a millwork carpenter and does great work installing custom interior and exterior trimwork and cabinetry. He should be making great money but can’t get out of his way…
…Still, we make choices, right? They have three vehicles – a nice new volvo SUV, a Suburban, and his F250 Ford Pickup work truck, a nice house, and all four kids go to private school. Not sure where the money comes from, but they don’t make all that much. Should they be the poster child for S-CHIP? Heck no….
Sister Toldjah has more about the (to channel Scott) tit-for-tat. On a more personal note, I have lots of tat.
We KNOW it’s not about the money (or else you’d be all over the $9 Billion unaccounted for in the Iraq reconstruction). We KNOW it’s not about fairness (or else you’d be all over companies who move their HQs to the Bahamas to avoid U.S. taxes, while America fights wars in their corporate interests–not to mention the bnking industry writing the bankruptcy bill).
So what is it really about?
Hating kids?
Yes, that’s exactly it, Robert. We simply hate children.
Moron.
So the ONLY answer you could give was that you hate kids.
Thanks for cutting through the crap and stating the truth.
It’s much appreciated.
I noticed your coimment was from “Pabl;o”, but you signed it “Moron”. Is that your last name?
You know, you could read through the four or five posts on this topic over the last week or so and see a number of arguments laid out repeatedly and at length. Or, you could just go with the asinine.
Before you choose, I’ll let you in on another piece of pertinent information. We hate morons too.
Robert:
I see that you’ve become lost on the intertubes. Don’t worry, this happens quite often when you are distracted and burdened with sanctimonious talking points and quivering strawmen.
Now pay attention: Go back out the door, take a left. Keep going until you smell an odor of stale incense, skunky beer and putrified outrage. Follow the drool trails and you’ll be at the HuffPo.
No thanks are necessary.
How much is this going to cost, Robert, and how funded? Cigarette taxes?
Until you can answer my questions, above, I see no point in answering yours.
BTW: What the hell is a “coimment?” Is that when you state an opinion but do it demurely, batting your eyes?
I just don’t see the point of that.
Thanks for all your help guys.
The links to the posts were as informative as everything else here.
Robert, your dishonesty and bad-faith arguments make you unworthy of attention, but since this is a civilized group and there are readers out there who can learn from this exchange, I will engage you.
The issue here, as with so many other things, is responsibility. As Dan wrote above, the expansion of SCHIP to cover more and more non-poor non-children creates a disincentive for people to plan and prepare for emergencies. Without the means to handle emergencies on their own, more and more people will turn to government to bail them out. Those of us who still believe in personal responsibility think this is undesirable, as it forces everyone in the community to pay for the emergencies of others, and it makes it more likely that people will engage in riskier behavior because they know they will not bear the costs.
It’s a very simple argument, Robert, based on sound economic theory (which, as Dan notes above, makes Krugman’s words all the more disappointing) and discussed almost every day among this group. If you’d like a more thorough treatment of the ideas underlying this philosophy, I highly recommend you do a brief search of Jeff’s archives for individualism, personal responsibility, perverse incentives, moral hazard, and similar terms.
And Robert, if you’re planning to stick around and engage this community on a regular basis, it would be much appreciated if you would treat us as intelligent and compassionate human beings. For as much as it sometimes sounds as though we haven’t a lot of pity for certain individuals involved in a particular issue, at heart we’re really trying to promote outcomes that offer the greatest good to the greatest number, with a minimum of cost in terms of freedom and money.
Meh. That was me. Stupid leftover names from previous novelty posts…
Dan,
You sound like me when they said it would cost $15 Billion to attack Iraq.
I learned one thing in those long arduous debates (LOL) on the merits of the war, funding doesn’t matter.
We can find the money anywhere.
Print it up.
Pass it out.
Move on.
Robert, do you really need links to find your way through the last weeks worth of posts on a blog?
Truly, you’re too stupid to be here. Links wouldn’t help you. Plus, I hate you, so there you have it.
I’m sorry, but you’re not engaging the issue, Robert.
Yes this IS a teaching moment.. at least I’ve learned something valuable.. but it doesn’t involve samll potatos like the Frost/SCHIP idiocy.. It’s the day that The Nobel Foundation decided in all their brilliance to honor Al Gore for his contribution of a Hollywood movie about a contested scientific theory over a true hero like Irena Sendler who only saved 2500 Jewish children from death in the Warsaw ghetto or Auschwitz or somewhere equally horrific.. They’ve shamed themselves today.. and we’re all tainted by that shame..
Because every issue, no matter how tangential, must be instantly connected to TEH QUAGMIRE BUSHOIL HALLIBURTON CORPORATE AMERIKKA!
We’re talking about SCHIPS and the Iraq war breaks out again. Are you like one of those voice activated dolls that screams !QUAGMIREIRAQ! whenever anyone wants to talk about anything?This is why no one will take you seriously. You have all of the rhetorical maturity of a taunting third grader at recess.
Do you smell the putrified outrage yet? If so, you’re getting close to your home… there’s no place like home…
Mr. Frost,
Thanks for the honest answer.
I’m new here, so bear with me.
What is the incentive for corporations to stay in the U.S.?
Isn’t the U.S. fighting wars in their corporate interest, while allowing them to move offshore so they won’t have to pay taxes a disincentive to other corporations?
It seems to me that ALL people should bear responsibility and be held accountable for their choices.
Unfortunately, we live in the United States, where only the poor and powerless need be responsible and accountable.
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GOALPOSTS? AAAIIIIEEEEE!
Robert is just incapable of being happy. algore won a Nobel Peace Prize, and rather than celebrate this milestone accomplishment, he feels emboldened to run around and accuse conservatives of hating chidren. He can go fuck himself, but he is not likely endowed enough to even reach his taint. What a tool.
I liked it better when Krugman, the annoying little midget boy that he is, was behind the NY Times firewall in the subscribers only area. Same with MoDo and Herbert.
You mean, like smokers?
Robert, I happen to think we need to account for every penny spent in Iraq. I audit government programs, so I trust you won’t call me a chickenbeancounter on this one. The objection, at least for my part, is to a program explicitly directed to “low-income, uninsured children” being used for middle-income children, insured children, or childless adults, and being expanded significantly when it hasn’t scored better than “adequate” in OMB reviews and still has no performance measurement system in place.
Do you want to defend that as a matter of public policy, Robert? Or are you just here to fling poo and leave?
BJ,
SCHIP and the Iraq War are connected.
If it’s about the money, why must SCHIP be initially funded, but wars do not have to be?
If it’s about diencentives, where’s the outrage about those who won’t pay their fair share while reaping the benefits from those who do?
“I happen to think we need to account for every penny spent in Iraq. ”
How’s that working out for you?
Big evil corporations haunt my dreams.
Thankfully, I’ve conditioned my sleeping self to combat these terrors of the night by summoning a Justice League, consisting of Trial Lawyers and the Teacher’s Union.
Who, I’m told, LOVE KIDS!
So I always wake up refreshed, my soul cleansed.
Robert – You will not hijack this thread. You can rant about big business all you want. The simple fact is that the Frosts pimped out their kid to the Dems, who are now using him as some perverse human shield against any criticism. Why does this program need to be expanded when it already covered the Frost kids. What is the high end of what you consider poor, or the working poor? Why didn’t the Frosts purchase insurance for their kids PRIOR to the accident? Why should Pablo’s tax dollars be used to pay for the health insurance for Mr. Frost’s kids, because he was not responsible enough to purchase it on his own? Obviously, he prioritized purchasing a Suburban, commercial property, and re-financing his home ahead of protecting his family. Why should that create a burden on anyone other than the parents?
I CARE!
Hell, with you guys, what isn’t?
As if the Krugman piece weren’t enough, Robert comes along and illustrates the foundation principle of modern political discourse: if the Left can’t lie they have nothing to say, so they reserve their most indignant expostulations for the times when they lie and are caught out at it. The definition of “sliming”, as used today, is “pointing out that a Leftoid is lying”. Assembling and publicizing the proof that that is the case is a “smear campaign”.
I have not found a Rightist who makes more than bare mention of Graeme Frost; I have certainly not seen anyone, even Coulter, “sliming a twelve-year-old”. What we are doing, and will continue to do, is criticize his parents, characterizing them (accurately) as lazy, feckless ne’er-do-wells who refuse to put forth the effort to maintain their children in a decent lifestyle, instead depending on the largesse of others to bail them out from their bad decisions. This makes them lousy examples to use to promote extension of the support programs that tend to bail the feckless out from their bad decisions, and of course pointing that out is another example of “sliming”.
Leftoids: Not even the Pope is allowed to decree what is Good and True any more. The mere fact of your endorsement does not constitute Indefeasible Virtue, and if you’re going to continue to elevate the criminal and irresponsible to the position of Exemplar of All that is Good you’d better get used to “sliming”.
Regards,
Ric
Raving about the SCHIP program while shrugging your soldiers about the cost of the Iraq War makes you look penny wise and dollar foolish.
We happen to believe that national security is a more important goal than SCHIP expansion. We wet our beds thinking about SCHIP expansion.
“.. shrugging your soldiers ..”
Talk about a Freudian slip…
And the opening gambit was a doozy. “Here’s all of the things I KNOW you can’t be thinking because….QUAGMIRE! HALLIBURTONBABYKILLINGMONGERERBU$COMcNEOCONNAZIS!”
Doesn’t anyone know how to make an entrance anymore?
How’s that working out for you?
Nice deflection, Robert. I can’t audit them all myself, dude.
So, in your view the historical fact of wasted money in the Iraq War eliminates fiscal restraint as an argument against expanded government programs — and does so for all time?
Good thing, I guess, since Hillary seems determined to put 80 percent of the U.S. population on the receiving end of one entitlement program or another.
That’s it, Gentlemen. No more shrugging your soldiers. BECAUSE OF THE IRAQ CONNECTION!
Which is like the Rainbow Connection, only eeeevil.
Eh, I’d rather give my money to Iraqis. What? They’re not Americans? So, you’re for strict immigration control and no amnesty, right?
With respect, Robert, I don’t think there are a lot of people around here who actually support U.S. corporations moving offshore in order to avoid taxes. And I also take issue that the war in the mideast is being fought on behalf of some sinister Corporate Overlords. It’s pretty clear to me that the current war is in the long-term best interests of the nation, and of the civilized world in general. But I’m not going to go into that in depth here, as Iraq’s been argued to death among this community already. If you’d like a more thorough treatment of the assumptions and the arguments put forth by the various factions of the Protein Wisdom readers, I’d highly recommend doing a search for the relevant terms in Jeff’s archives.
Regardless of our agreement or lack thereof, the arguments you cite are not integral to the topic at hand. As I explained above, the money spent in Iraq is inconsequential, since my disagreement has to do with personal responsibility and perverse incentives that cause people to behave foolishly and with little thought to future consequences.
In closing, I should note that it seems you’re trying to distract the group from the matter at hand, by offering tangents related to offshore tax havens and the Iraq war. I should also point out that you come across as a class-warfare advocate and a hater of capitalist success, and I find those arguments tedious and thoroughly played-out, so I respectfully request that we move our focus back to matters of personal responsibility, emergency planning, resource management, the fairness of forcing smokers to pay for middle-class families’ obligations, and if you’re really interested in riling things up, the appropriateness of using a 12-year-old to deliver a political policy proposal, and then hiding behind said 12-year-old as a means to avoid making good-faith arguments to defend said proposal.
We will pay any price, bear any burden … something along those lines. Remember that Robert? The Dems used to actually stand for something.
Good point, Dr. Steve. They will use that example of the $9B (a one time cost) to justify irresponsible social spending that will only increase in perpetuity. Anyone care to hazard a guess as to how much the CHIP expansion will cost over its lifetime? How many trillions of dollars?
Dan,
You’d be better off not talking about all the “security” you gained from the Iraq War.
By all objective analysis, the war has provided little or no security gains for the U.S.
As for turning your back on those burdened by health costs, it will cost you more in the long run due to having to care for the homeless.
DrSteve might help provide a cost/ benefit analysis of both programs to allow you to see this.
(Sorry to put the burden on you DrSteve, but I got the impression from your earlier post this is something you might point us all towards).
Ric Locke,
I anticipate your posts on corporate welfare with baited breath.
Responsibility and accountability for ALL, not just the poor and powerless will benefit us all, no?
Thanks.
“Come come,” said Krug, “let us please–”
“We shall not. I warned you that I would ignore your irritation.”
“Well, what do you want me to do?” asked Krug with a sigh and helped himself to another cup of lukewarm coffee.
“Leave the country at once.”
–from Nabokov for Republicans
I think you mean “bated breath,” Robert, but you know best.
Thanks Dan.
Major terror attacks in the US since 9/11, Robert? How long did you think we were going to go without, when it happened? How many jihadis have been killed in Iraq, do you suppose? What’s happened to al-Qaeda’s recruiting? What’s happened to their myth?
Robert, most people here aren’t talking about SCHIP at the extensive margin. And as I’ve commented on other threads I’m not losing sleep over an increase in funding if CMS can still tell states their allocation is based on the number of uninsured kids in families at or under 250 percent (or whatever is the current threshold) of FPL. If States want to take those dollars and direct them elsewhere, OK, but there ought to be some accountability for that. I think broadening the eligibility requirements just makes it easier for SCHIP program managers in the States to fail to cover genuinely low-income kids because they can boost their overall coverage numbers by reaching into these other eligible groups. What’s the problem with maintaining the existing focus of the program? Should the next dollar spent not go to the poorer rather than the richer kid?
And when you get your own blog, remind us to come over there and order your commenters around about what they have to write about to maintain logical consistency.
Wow. That’s a 16% decrease in one year. We can only pray the next President carries on Bush’s legacy.
Oh. Two years. biennial. Still, very heartening news. Also, this that Mike C. knew about was so informative I will link again…
time for Java Monster looks like
1) Define “major attacks”. I’ve heard some say we haven’t had a terrorist attack since 9/11. Which is true, if you don’t count the terrorist attacks we’ve had since then (Anthrax, DC Sniper, etc)
2) Wasn’t sure, but it had been 6 years since an attack on American soil (The OK City bombing), 2 years prior (original WTC bombing), and 42 years prior to that.
3) I don’t have a number. Our government doesn’t count them, so any number would be a guess.
4) Up up, up, if objective accounts are to be believed.
5) Their “myth”?
Nah, Dan, I think Robert’s been nibbling sardines. Hence, “baited breath.” But I’m notoriously optimistic, and always willing to give the other guy the benefit of the doubt.
So Robert, when you say that “You’d be better off not talking about all the “security†you gained from the Iraq War” I presume you take it that because there have been no terrorist attacks on U.S. soil since Sept. 2001 that there has been no threat. As opposed to a competing interpretation that suggests that our efforts in the Iraq war is directly responsible for that fact. Assuming that we agree that “no terrorist attacks on U.S. soil” reflects a net increase in security.
I’m asking in good faith.
happy, Hillary actually praised the Bush Administration for their “Housing First” approach (she didn’t reference that phrase, but that’s what she was talking about) at her Barn Rally in NH yesterday. The Bush people on homeless policy are really top-flight; very open-minded but focused on results.
Counts of homeless persons and families, though, are very very unreliable. Projecting from the point-in-time counts is about the best we can do until more communities are reporting data into the AHAR.
Robert, you are a marginal thinker.
Since you seem to LOVE the corporate welfare angle, I’ll put this in terms even you can comprehend.
A great many corporations are in support of this SCHIP expansion, because they can simply drop coverage of all their qualifying employees’ minor children, and let the government pick up the tab instead.
Robert’s “objective” measures of security are likely as “objective” as steves from yesterday.
Must maintain The Narrative. Rethugs hate kids. They really hate poor kids. And minorities. And women. Tax cuts for the wealthy.
And Robert, do you support Medicare? The original Medicare cost projections for hospitalizations were off by a factor of seven. Does that mean you can’t complain about wasted money either?
Can I caption the photo?
“Smeared by the Right wing, Master Graeme Frost holds a press conference in the anteroom of the servants’ quarters of his parents’ modest house, which they bought for $55,000.00 when the neighborhood was a ghetto.â€Â
A great many corporations are in support of this SCHIP expansion, because they can simply drop coverage of all their qualifying employees’ minor children, and let the government pick up the tab instead.
And let us not forget the incentive that these corporations will have to keep these workers under the threshhold for eligibility to the program. Hell, the workers themselves will probably be happy to remain at that plateau until such time as they’re offered enough of a raise to overcome the cost of insurance.
See, Robert? We’re nothing if not accommodating of newcomers.
scooter,
Who says there have been no terrorist attacks on US soil since 9/11/2001? There have been, so the question is moot.
brian,
Agreed. National healthcare is coming, and the chrge will be led by corporations. Who, BTW
You know I hate it when people misspell “Teh.”
Also, Krugman has a book out, next week I think, so it’s not like he’s going to risk any opinion that might be contrary to the one he’s posed to have. Is instructive that he too thought pimping little Graeme was his best pre-book launch move. They’ve really turned that little kid out.
scooter,
Who says there have been no terrorist attacks on US soil since 9/11/2001? There have been, so the question is moot.
brian,
Agreed. National healthcare is coming, and the charge will be led by corporations. Who, since they run the country, always get what they want.
JD,
Republicans don’t hate kids. But they aren’t afraid to kick them if they get in their way.
DrSteve,
A factor of “seven”, wow. If the Iraq war was off by a factor of seven, it would have cost us only $105 billion (as opposed to $600 Billion and counting)
Medicare is “socialized medicine”. The troops, Congress, and the Executive branch (for 3 examples) also get socialized medicine.
Certainly Dick Cheney could afford his pacemaker without Pablo having to pay for it.
I’m just sayin’.
How many people have been killed in those terrorist attacks on U.S. soil from 9/12 onward?
That’s the way George Soros would like it to be.
Robert; forgetting teh crazee snipers and the Anthrax which happened shortly after 9/11, exactly how many jihadist radical terror attacks have been foiled? Do we really need to do a list for you?
Take your time now and think it through, but don’t hurt yourself.
Also, have you noticed that the quality of terrorists appears to be diminishing and that worldwide muslim radical attacks are down? Is it possible that it may have to do with training facilities denied, financial sources dried up, 75%-80% of the operational savvy gurus arrested or killed and al qaeda sending lots of their operatives into the jihadist shredder that is Iraq?
Well, that may be too much for you to digest in one sitting so be careful.
McGehee,
I don’t know the number.
But isn’t the real question, how many people have been terrorized since 9/12 onward?
No.
Hey, there’s an idea in there, though Robert misses it by several miles. We could make people like the Frost’s work for coverage for their kids, like most people do, including the military and federal employees.
Hell, Halsey might even learn a skill he could make a decent living at. Which would be really cool for Graeme.
BJTexas,
Good points, but I think The Bush Administration will have a problem with your comment. (I know, who in their right mind takes the Bush Administration serious anymore).
They seem to think AQ is attacking American soldiers and Iraqis everyday. Thinkers, like you and me, know it’s a civil war.
Robert has many, many questions today.
Yeesh, if robert were any more obtuse he’d be dragged down 5th Avenue on Thanksgiving.
McGehee says, “How many people have been killed in those terrorist attacks on U.S. soil from 9/12 onward?”
Robert responds(?) “But isn’t the real question, how many people have been terrorized since 9/12 onward?”
What? Zen and the Art of GWOT? Mr Miyagi, is that you? Wax on, wax off?
I’m going back to work before all of my intellegence is leached away by teh obtuse.
Robert, do the goalposts ever get heavy?
Who was pimping out a 12 year old in this issue?
I personally, cannot wait for socialized health care. Those payroll taxes just aren’t enough as it is. Tax day should move forward to somewhere around Labor Day.
Anyone care to guess what it will cost to provide healthcare for everyone under the age of 65, annually? Since Medicare and Medicaid are such beacons of efficiency, I am sure that multiplying that 10+ times over will just increase the efficiency. I was at the BMV this morning, and let me tell you, I cannot wait to have that type of efficiency just to see a doctor.
Frankly, I would be willing to consider national healthcare if I was given the choice to opt out.
Hey, let’s not be in a rush to rule that out. And while I’m thinking about it, Eid is coming up first, so let’s not be too rigid on this.
Robert,
My pleasure, if briefly.
As several people have pointed out above, there is no better or finer example of “corporate welfare” than S-CHIP and similar programs. The people who run companies see that they can dispense with a fairly large outlay (health insurance for employees’ kids) and thereby fatten the bottom line. Taxes, as such, don’t bother corporate managers. No corporation has a single red cent that didn’t come, ultimately, from its customers — it’s merely a conduit for money, which is why the metric for success is “cash flow” — so the only time they give a damn how much taxes they pay is when other, competitive corporations don’t pay similar taxes and therefore don’t have to charge their customers as much. And of course since they have (their customers’) money they can easily make “campaign contributions” to insure that the tax burden doesn’t fall on them, so it’s all good.
So if you’re arguing for expansion of S-CHIP you are proposing corporate welfare on a grand scale, far above anything us mere chiselers ever contemplated. Exxon thanks you.
Regards,
Ric
Robert – while acts of terror, they (anthrax, DC sniper) were decisively acts of domestic terror. Nice bit of hair-splitting, and I suppose I should technically concede those points, but I’m not aware of any, per BJ, “jihadist radical terror attacks” have occurred on U.S. soil.
And now, a digression – if we managed to eliminate the “evil corporations” that “run everything”, where does the wealth production in the U.S. come from? Corporations employ an awful lot of people, and they can’t all be childless Rethug Brownshirts. The United Way and Habitat for Humanity sure don’t seem to give back any of the funds provided by corporate donors, nor refuse the efforts of people who work for them.
BJTexas,
The object of terrorism isn’t to kill people. It’s to terrorize them.
If it was, they’d be called “killists” and we’d be fighting the war on “killism”.
Wal-Mart looks absolutely progressive here, don’t they?
Gee, Robert, by your logic the “corporations” would want to expand SCHIP as a step toward national healthcare. I guess W didn’t get the memo, huh? And you must find yourself even more confused than normal (!) to find yourself defending a a kid the Democrats trotted out to advocate a program favored by the “corporations.” Sucks, huh?
You should grab yourself a Dew and a bag of Cool Ranch Doritos and head back to your Playstation before you really hurt yourself.
It would be called “expensivedom”.
I had a lefty come to my blog and proclaim this, “suggest learning something about the Frost family from somebody other than the wingnut slime machine.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/opinion/12krugman.html?hp”
Here is the problem. If the blogosphere takes the lead in trying to expose this family for the frauds that they are, our side is going to get slaughtered in the debates. As long as feebleminded pols like Boehner continue to sit back and let us play hatchet men for them, we aren’t going to win. They have to get out there and scream what we are screaming, CORRUPTION, CORRUPTION, CORRUPTION. This is not new. Everytime a government program gets bloated it also gets corrupted. People are being sold a bill of goods by being appealed to their most compassionate side and our side needs to get out front and let the public know that the wool is being pulled over their eyes. McCain said as much to bloggers, but that isn’t enough. He needs to get in front of the MSM and say it. Here is how I see the situation…
http://proprietornation.blogspot.com/2007/10/schip-for-trust-fund-babies.html
scooter,
Nice strawman.
I never said all corporations are evil. But certainly they should be regulated (just as the people are) with real oversight.
My point about corporations was this: You get your panties in a wad when you think some people are gaining benefits while avoiding the risks, but when corporations move to a PO Box in the Bahamas to avoid taxes (which they do RicLocke) while having this country protect their corporate interests, all I hear is crickets chirping.
Which brings us back full circle: Responsibility and accountability for ALL, not just for the poor and powerless.
Watch out, everybody – there’s a terrorist event (by Robert’s definition) predicted on October 31.
And “racists” are people who go really, really fast.
I call BS on Robert’s professed caring about responsibility and accountability for all. If that were the case, he would be joining us, not condemning us, for Senor Frost’s irresponsible decisions and lack of priorities. Alas, Robert, and his ilk only want to extend this to the people that actually pay the income taxes, as opposed to those that simply received the largesse from same.
Robert would not know what a terrorist was if Achnad was standing in front of him, beating a scimtar on his forehead, chanting to Allah, with a severed Jooooooooo head in his hand, and wearing a homicide bomber vest.
Modern GOP a “Vicious Political Movement”…
Krugman:…
Nice post, Dan. You know you’re at the nerve when the first comment is from a thread jacker. It’s almost as if the Dems realize that the Victim Vetting Unit erred somewhere along the way. It appears the Save Our Slackers bill is going to receive more attention that the Socialist Party would wish.
Sigh, another Iraq War expert in the PW comments section. I should spare myself the excessive eye rolling. Mobilization Day is too darn close, and I don’t want to go the physical with tired eyes.
As I took my chastening in the prior threadjacking, let us keep to the actual subject of the post.
I am a bit miffed that I have a bite out of my check from the Swiss Insurance Behemoth to pay for someone else’s health insurance while they maintain a Volvo and an F 250 – and all the while I pay for my family’s insurance and I tool around in a 6 year old Saturn L100…
You know, Robert, I had a break and thought I would sneak a peak to see if you’ve become more intellectually Honest. But this:
Please tell me that was a juvenile, hapless attempt at blog humor. If you were serious either 1) seek professional help or 2) stop using the middle school’s computers and get back to class!
Corporations are accontable, Robert. To their shareholders. And the Frosts are accountable. To their children. They didn’t measure up, though. So we get to do it for them.
The object of liberalism isn’t to liberate people.
So, how many?
Major John – Do not forget to get us your mailing address whenever possible. My wife and I would like to “adopt” you and your unit while you are deployed, and I am sure that everyone else around here would like to do something as well.
I get terrorized every time someone says President and Hilary in the same sentence.
Help me Robert!
And you’d be wrong JD.
It’s not just you. It’s all American’s who have been suckered into the “follow the pea” game being played.
Whining about the poor, the illegal immigrants, and the homeless for stealing your hard-earned tax money, while the real thieves in boardrooms laugh all the way to the bank.
JD, I’m an optimist. I still think Americans will figure it out at some point.
In the meantime, I suggest we replace “In God We Trust” with “Slow on the Uptake”.
Thanks all.
It’s been fun.
“The troops, Congress, and the Executive branch (for 3 examples) also get socialized medicine.”
Yeah, and speaking as someone who has dealt with that “socialized medicine” the last four years, I can testify that it’s as ineffecient as advertised. I had to get a chronic ingrown toenail removed last summer, and I was so frustrated by my inability to get an open appointment with our base medical group that I went to the local outpatient clinic in town. Rather than wait a month and a half just to see a doctor, they got me in and out in an hour and a half. The painkiller prescription took 15 minutes. Please don’t tell me how wonderful socialized medicine is, because I’ve experienced it firsthand.
Not to mention the nonsense that happened at Walter Reed. Are you really sure you want to cite the military as an effective example of socialized medicine?
Oh, and the “Iraq War and outsourcing corporations” line as nothing more than lazy deflection. If you were really that concerned about “the children,” you ought to be outraged at a couple who put their health and their children’s at risk by living beyond their means. But why should a liberal expect someone to be personally responsible when the government can be responsible for them, right?
Robert – granted, you never said you wanted to eliminate corporations, evil or otherwise. But let’s take a step back for a second:
“Isn’t the U.S. fighting wars in their corporate interest, while allowing them to move offshore so they won’t have to pay taxes a disincentive to other corporations?”
Sounds like the crux of your argument hinges on the “fact” that U.S. foreign policy, especially with respect to waging war, is predicated on what’s in the best interest of American corporations.
Is this an agreed-upon fact, or is that a strawman?
Thanks all.
It’s been fun.
Well, at least he departed with the same degree of intellectual consistency that he entered with.
Robby,
Fine, you want to steer the S-CHIP issue to the Iraq War cost issue, saying the results haven’t been worth the astronomical cost, and you feel duped by the initial cost estimation? Please, then, discuss the decades-long history of government entitlement spending on the order of trillions of dollars. Because, sheesh, I’m told by Democrats every election cycle that the plight of the poor are as dire as ever. Where’s all this money going? Why do the Frosts even exist?
Wow….just wow. I normally just lurk about but I am just amazed at ‘teh stoopid’ in this one.
Unless my personal copy of The Constitution is mistaken, the Iraq war, being authorized by the Congress is in fact an expression of one of the Federal governments’ enumerated powers. That being said, the SCHIP program, a means of wealth redistribution, is on very shaky Constitutional ground as far as enumerated powers go.
As far as offshore tax-havens go, both parties are responsible for the abortion that is our current tax code. A consumption tax would certainly fix that problem, yet the democrats would never allow a republican Congress to get the credit for something as massively paradigm shifting as the abolition of the IRS.
Most importantly, no one here has ‘slimed’ or ‘attacked’ this child, and to say so is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest.
Crap, he left.
I’ll answer my own question. Because of the corporations, man!
I want to adopt too. I got a kick out of that story that I don’t remember very well where MJ was giving out something or another to those Afghan guys that they thought was so neat. I think it was some kind of food or beverage or whatever, so whatever it is the Iraqis where MJ’s unit goes get kind of excited about that they can’t usually get I’d like to ship some over for MJ to give out. I’m not sure how you do that really, but the guy at the mail place is pretty helpful.
zisk68 and others:
Please try to remember that we’re arguing with someone who thinks that there’s a difference between “terrorizing” and “killing.”
I still hold out hope that he was either joking or a fraud.
Robert,
Yes, corporations move offshore to avoid taxes, although nowadays it isn’t the Bahamas so much; the Cayman Islands offer better deals, and there are several other havens around.
You are ignoring the basic principle. The whole point of a Corporation is that there’s nothing there. It turns out to be a good way to license and regulate businesses, so Governments in general tend to go along with the gag — but the major reason Governments license corporations is so they can tax the customers. The original reason for the invention of the corporate form was so that the King could tax people who weren’t his subjects; the Companies of Friends sold goods at an enormous markup, and the King took his rakeoff. The money came from the poor bastards who could only get the goods from the Company. The system has been refined since then, but that fundamental purpose remains. You can’t tax a corporation; there’s nothing to tax. What you can do is conceal the amount of tax you’re taking from the citizenry by charging the corporation for the privilege of doing business — or, as in the original case, you can charge people who are far away and not members of your society a tax. California does that explicitly — they call it “unitary tax” — and the net result is that the State’s expenditures are partly paid by poor people in, e.g., Bengla Desh.
In the long run every penny a corporation has comes from its customers. All a corporation actually has is a favored position on Vonnegut’s Money River, where it can use the flow to turn moneywheels and get work done — the money itself flows downstream at the same rate as before once the reservoir (called capital) is filled. If a corporation finds itself accumulating money it’s supposed to do one of two things: lower the price of its goods (or increase the quality/cost of them, which is the same thing), or distribute the money to its shareholders. There is a man called Warren Buffett, and several others including a company called LTV, who will pounce on them and vacuum up the surplus if they don’t do that.
Corporate executives are generally in favor of Government support of workers, because the biggest expenditure most of them have is for labor and benefits. If the Government pays for it all their bottom line looks better, and they are both aware that they’re just going to jack up prices to cover any tax burden and confident that the
bribescampaign contributions they pay politicians will insulate them from tax liability. The only difference between S-CHIP and a Bahamas P.O. box is that the former offers them a better excuse to jack up prices, and therefore “cash flow” and their officers’ compensation.Regards,
Ric
He wasn’t joking nor a fraud. A conspiracist would say he was the obedient lefty designated to distract this community before we completely deconstructed the SCHIP argument put forth by the 12-year-old child hand-picked by the Democratic leadership.
A less suspicious mind would say he was a college student so enthralled by his anti-corporatist mentors that he couldn’t make a coherent argument, and instead fell back on the old chestnut of “The U.S. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Teh Korporation, maaan!”
And while I know I sound like a broken record, I’ll repeat: it’s not about wasting tax dollars; it’s about fostering personal responsibility and liberty. Whether or not I support the Iraq war or corporate offshoring has nothing at all to do with whether I support letting middle-class parents off the hook for providing for their families. They’re completely unrelated issues, and only the most stubborn of one-track minds would insist that the one is tied to the others.
BJ – We are not even arguing with him. He makes a demonstrably false statement. Someone demonstrates that it is false. He re-states it, claiming to be true, despite evidence to the contrary. Then, he would grab the goalposts, run about 15 yards to his Left, squeal about some corporation (which is nothing other than a collection of people), and then say …. b-b-b-b-b-but w-w-what about this? Or this? Or that.
Trying to have an actual discussion with his ILK (yup, I said it, I went there) is like trying to count the number of times a hummingbird flaps its wings.
We do like to gang up, don’t we
“Comment by Robert on 10/12 @ 9:18 am #
If it’s about diencentives, where’s the outrage about those who won’t pay their fair share while reaping the benefits from those who do?”
Like welfare moms?
Yup. Especially on teh stupid. Whack-A-Troll, but in slow motion.
I won’t presume to speak for everyone else, but I would love it if we had 50 leftists like SEK round here. They are no less wrong, but they are wrong with integrity, which is a substantial difference.
Robert is off high-fiving his troll buddies over at Atrios or Sadly No, claiming some perceived victory due to the fact that he pointed out we hate us some kids, especially poor minority ones, and if we don’t hate ’em, we sure like kicking them.
If we were to go to national socialist healthcare, whose healthcare would actually be improved, other than the uninsured? I suspect that an overwhelming number of people would see a dramatic decrease in services, as compared to their existing plans. It would be likely that even people with average to well below average plans would be disappointed with the end result.
And, I cannot wait to see how they propose to pay for this, how much my payroll taxes will increase, and what the actual annual costs are for this behemoth.
Medicare for all ! Please run on that slogan.
“Comment by Robert on 10/12 @ 9:41 am #
Dan,
You’d be better off not talking about all the “security†you gained from the Iraq War.
By all objective analysis, the war has provided little or no security gains for the U.S.”
What happened, you get shot with the stupid ray or something?
Here’s a hint: 9/11/01.
Comment #72 absolutely cements the fact that this Robert is indeed an idiot. Robert, you’re not serious and you’re an idiot. When you do become serious and at least work your way up to an imbecile, then feel free to wow us with your “skills” again.
LOL…It looks like I am ideed the idiot as it was comment #71. I’ll be eating a shit sandwich, if anyone needs me.
“Comment by Robert on 10/12 @ 10:33 am #
BJTexas,
Good points, but I think The Bush Administration will have a problem with your comment. (I know, who in their right mind takes the Bush Administration serious anymore).
They seem to think AQ is attacking American soldiers and Iraqis everyday. Thinkers, like you and me, know it’s a civil war.”
No it’s not.
The Krug report…
NYT opinion writer and faux economist Paul Krugman has a piece up today in which he piles on the liberal bandwagon by attacking the “mean-spirited right” who Kruggie accused of launching a “smear campaign” against 12 year old Gr…
Anybody have the lastest reports on how many “killists” got wacked today in Iraq, Afghanistan and Upper Waziristan?
Before they died, I’ll bet they were “terrorized.”
Hey, look. I’ve been emboldened.
That word doesn’t mean what robert thinks it does. Not. Even. Close.
I continue to be numbed by the transcendant idiocy of this statement and, frankly, astonished that, upon it’s posting, a black hole did not open over the earth and start sucking intellegance from the entire population.
Am I an abject alarmist or did robert “terrorise” me?
JD and hf,
I am touched that you would do something like that. I’ll try to send my APO address back, once I am hunkered down in my Bunker-o-Defeat in Quagmiraq.
hf: A little Crystal Light in some cold water bottles, put in a cooler and given to some astonished Afghan Militia (by the absolute best NCO I have ever served with) when I was at some big pow-wow in Jabal-Os-Saraj. I shan’t ever forget the look on their faces as they tried it. I probably looked like that the first time I had a good single malt.
I’ll take some of that action, MJ! In addition to stuff we cvan send to you, you can help us put stuff together to send to the Iraqi troops you train. That sounds like a plan!
Now I need to go mop up and wring out the splattered remains of my IQ.
BJ – yikes, intelligence. Maybe Obstreperous Infidel will share some of his shit sandwich.
Major John – It is nothing. It is a pleasure.I probably ought to send out the first package now, and you might get it in December ;-)
BJ – The whole terrorist vs. killist thing maid mee dummerer jeust 4 reeding it.
Did that whole terrorist/killist thing mean that they were unsuccessful at their goal since they killed people, or the people that were killed were just collateral damage in their quest to terrorize the rest of us?
See wat eye meen? intallugance. Damne! intalligunce Krap! interelugince. falffellapul. Ack! plop
I’m kind of disappointed Robbie didn’t bring up the whole Military Industrial Complex thingee. ’cause you know, its all connected. I know, because I took a poli-sci course in the 70’s.
My nomination for stupid comment of the month. But hey, it’s early yet.
Stupid Comment of the month? Robert is the hands down winner for that, and in my book, is leading in the race for Stupid Comment of 2007, and for Stupid Comment of the 2000’s.
By the way, Jerry Lee Lewis just changed his nickname to “The Killist”. Cool!
The “real thieves” who acquire my wealth when I voluntarily give it to them (in exchange for a good or service) versus the “poor, illegal immigrants, and the homeless” who receive my wealth after government confiscates it at the end of a gun.
*shudder*
Sometimes, I weep for the future.
So, the loveable Leftists have 2 SUV’s and a honking gas guzzling pick up. I am sure that they are gore-bots about global warming, yet figure that their preaching to others is a free carbon offset for their vehicles.
The idea that algore won a Nobel is really getting me more down than I have been.
I don’t know, guys, if I’d jump to the conclusion that the Frosts actually own these vehicles just because unknown somebody says so via email.
Hell, I’m retiring the Moronic Leftist Talking Point medal for that whole concept.
Intelligence … Intelligence … Intelligence OK, I think I got my IQ back.
TAKE THIS AS A CAUTIONARY TALE!!!
One of the things that I find strange about the Frost story is the lack of any mention of neighbors, co-workers (*cough*) and others stepping forward to help the family in their time of crisis. I’m sure it must have occurred; there had to have been at least one Beef-n-beer benefit to help these people pay their bills. Of course, that kind of voluntary giving, which builds communities, and which makes people feel good about themselves, is anathema to those who want the guv’ment to step in and do it for them.
Slarti – You are right. I am jumping to conclusions on this one. The whole Volvo thing is almost too good. The Suburban is and the F250 I have seen at a variety of places.
BJ – It will take a couple of days for my mind to recover from that rhetorical broadside.
BJ, if I’m reading this right, he may have killed you. Check and see if you’re dead.
(whispers) I see stupid liberals… with moronic ideas …
Nope! Still breathing! Close though…
[…] controversy over the Dem’s pimping of Graeme Frost continues, and it again demonstrates how the marginalizing of religion and moral virtues actually leads to […]
Did anyone watch Ken Burns’ “The War” it made me sad to see what this country’s become since… all that shared sacrifice and there’s still people trying to tiptoe into communism by providing health insurance to children. Haven’t they read the bible? The sins of the father will be visited on the children… if your father is an alcoholic or lazy or even unlucky and you can’t afford medical care then tough! If society takes care of you then we’re encouraging alcoholism, laziness and unluckiness. Read the bible, this is exactly what Jesus preached. The people who were too lazy to climb the mountain with him didn’t get any loaves or fish… the blind and the crippled who were unlucky and didn’t encounter him didn’t get healed. The good lord helps the children of those who help themselves, if you can’t get it together it’s just as likely that your kids wouldn’t have gotten it together either, so trying to save them would be a waste of time and taxpayer resources.
chicagoist, I don’t like you.
What we’re excited about here is not whether or not Graeme Frost, age 12, needs or deserves help.
We are a bit indignant that Graeme’s parents are feckless ne-er-do-wells who, in our opinion, could and should have made more effort and/or some sacrifice in order to provide for their child’s needs, instead of indulging themselves in idleness and fancy cars. And we find it more than a bit amusing that the Democrats would elevate such folks to Exemplars of Necessity.
Regards,
Ric
Chicagoist,
Ric doesn’t like you.
I strongly doubt you. But at least he is good natured enough to take you at your word.
Call me cynical.
Robert provides yet another example of how the left just doesn’t understand business or taxes. Could it be that most of them have never held real jobs or jobs with enough responsibility to make decisions of any significance? Unlikely, but possible.
The thieves in the boardroom sending untaxed profits overseas do so because of tax treaties between the U.S. and the foreign jurisdiction. If we don’t like the arrangement, the treaties can be terminated. The profits are also not necessarily permanently untaxed for the thieves, who presumably in this case include the shareholders of the corporations, in many cases small investors through their mutual fund holdings. Does Robert consider small investors thieves? If the money is repatriated to the U.S. through salaries, intercompany dividends, shareholder dividends or other means, U.S. taxes are due on the money. Robert’s complaint disappears. It’s only id a significant chunk of profits look to be retained overseas that the tax code provides the corporation something other than a temporary timing difference. Some investors look for some companies as investments assuming they will have above average growth. If Robert doesn’t like the practice, he should talk to his representative in Congress instead of bitching. I wonder if he has explored offshore tax shelters for individuals?
I think the Frost parents understand taxes very well. What you don’t earn, isn’t taxed.
The trick comes in acquiring wealth (house, cars, commercial realestate, private education) in ways such that it is not considered taxable earnings.
They seem to have mastered that one as well.
He not only doesn’t understand anything about the WOT,Major, but he fancies himself as an economist as well. Sad.
Be careful over there. Let us know if we can send you anything. Portillos Itallian Beef? Some Superdogs?
Yes! It was Crystal Light. Whatever the Iraqi analogue is, just let me know.
[…] From Sister Toldjah, DITTO WHAT SHE SAID!! NYT opinion writer and faux economist Paul Krugman has a piece up today in which he piles on the liberal bandwagon by attacking the “mean-spirited right†who Kruggie accused of launching a “smear campaign†against 12 year old Graeme Frost and his family.The factual inaccuracies from Kruggie’s little diatribe are addressed here, and Dan Collins calls Kruggie on his nonsense here. […]
I suppose some nice Hebrew National hot dogs would be out of line.
The troops, Congress, and the Executive branch (for 3 examples) also get socialized medicine.
Maybe Mr. Frost should enlist.
I kid, I kid. Seriously, though, I’ve started to hear this argument more and more often, including from some dull-normal Congressman on Washington Journal the other morning. What the proponents seem to be missing, however, is that all the groups mentioned above are (wait for it) Federal Employees.
And all this leaves aside the issue of how government-funded medical insurance for everyone is going to be like a crack-meth-steroid cocktail for the Nannystatists and neo-Puritans. I don’t want other people making rights claims on my behavior because we’re stuck in the same risk pool. If my insurance company does that now I can find another — if my government does it to me, what recourse do I have?
If everyone gets the health plan that the Congresscritters set up for themselves, the entire government of the good ole US of A should come to a complete and crashing halt in about 1.387 years.
Oh god they GOT JARED.
Unfortunately, Jared is an Indiana boy, I believe. He rose to his bizarre fame while at IU. Apparently, he has quite a colorful history.
You know what? Those cookies at Subway really suck anyway.
I find that Subway really sucks. Pretty much any deli anywhere is a better way to go.
#
Comment by Rusty on 10/12 @ 3:04 pm #
..Be careful over there. Let us know if we can send you anything. Portillos Itallian Beef…
**
Rusty knows suburban Chicago – and I bet MJ knows Portillo’s. It’s the best fast-food chain around, though Carm’s just edges it for better Italian beef. I’m in a slow-motion move from Chicago’s suburbs, and Portillo’s is in NE Illinois, with one L.A. extension (I’ve eaten there, too); I will miss it powerfully.
You know, I too, am not a fan of corporate welfare. And, yes, there is a gross surplus of it in our great country fed by the ever over-zealous politician. But, unlike our little wandering dork, robert, I can appreciate and understand the wide gulf of a difference between the two entities. Those entities being corporations and individual people. The corporations add something (jobs, MUCH more in paid taxes in both percentage and in aggregate) to the economy in much greater ways than do individual people. That’s not to say that I am against limited welfare for individuals as obviously we all hit tough stretches. I realize that robert, ain’t none too bright, but it’s really not hard to understand this point. Then again, I’m not sure he had one to begin with.
Major John, please do let us know your whereabouts when you arrive. I, as well others, applaud and more than appreciate your commitment to our Country.
Portillos is good stuff!
Shorter Robert: “No matter what the nominal topic might be, I’m going to screech about Iraq and Bush.”
OI, don’t have a link, but remember hearing once that one of the first laws proposed to the Continental Congress in the 1790’s involved farm subsidies. Corporate welfare will be with us as long as corporations have money.
P.S. It never ceases to amaze me how many people in comment-land are Illinoisan, esp. Chicago-familiar. Grow up reading Royko and seeing the mind-bending venality of Chicago/Springfield and ‘cynical’ does not begin to cover the attitude to politics.
Vienna Beef
daleyrocks, Vienna Beef scores a B – good but not great. Bless them for the creative names of their shop, though; I think Mustard’s Last Stand was one of theirs. Back to the Hawks.
Ugh. CSPI. The press laps up their press releases like a dog with its own vomit.
Does going to Bradley count?
I did a couple of months on a project in Peoria, Rob. Yep, it counts. Hawks beat Detroit; life is good again.
Nazdar…no doubt. Corporate welfare, especially farm subsidies are an age old tradition in our great country. Just temperance would be appreciated in the awarding of subsidies to corporate America. Not for the dumbfucks’ sake (robbie rob’s), but for capitalism’s sake.
On a much more sour note, my Indians are getting squashed right now by the most hated Red Sox. No amount of 12 year old Macallan is going to make it easier for me on this night. Oh well…
I think all we can ask for is transparency. The congress-creatures do respond as if they feel shame. When they get caught.
Sorry for your Indians, but then I’m a White Sox fan. Of course, you get so sick of the northeasterners trumpeting the Yankees & Red Sox as if they were the only teams that matter in the AL: go Tribe!
“How much is this going to cost, Robert, and how funded? Cigarette taxes? Until you can answer my questions, above, I see no point in answering yours.”
With tax cuts. Don’t some people say those raise revenues? Or are those people complete frauds?
Nazdar – Vienna Beef makes the dogs. The shops display their logos to show that they carry their products.
Apppreciate the Tribe love, Nazdar. I really do. As a Sox fan (no red) I know you do appreciate the east coast bias. F’ em. BUT damn, Beckett owned us tonight and CC was garbage. Maybe Fausto can pitch a wee bit better tomorrow night.
And Andy, get laid or something. You seriously need to find a new hobby.
Yeah, daleyrocks, and you can get the dogs in the supermarkets, but I always thought that the shops took advice on their names. Too many cute/clever ones, and they couldn’t all be channeling Rich Melman.
OI, are your guys facing Wakefield in this series? When I saw him pitch against our guys, he’s always been deadly in warm/humid, and dead meat in cold.
Nazdar, we used to hit Wakefield pretty well (late 90’s and early 2000’s). I believe he is pitching in game 4. However, this new group of hitters, I have NO idea how they hit his soft junk as I took a hiatus from baseball for a while. But they seem to be hitters that can hit any type of pitching (all the while understanding that they are not a great hitting team). I just hope that Carmona brings his A game tomorrow night and Schilling is bad. Otherwise, this could be a sweep. And that would really suck. We will definitely go as far as our pitching takes us.
Rob Crawford – 2 words … Big Al’s
I will continue to revel in the fact that until this World Series is completed, I will be able to say something that the Cubs fans have not been able to say for 99 years – my Cardinals are the reigning World Series Champions.
OI: ‘We will definitely go as far as our pitching takes us.’ If that ain’t the White Sox story for my entire life, nothing is. Good luck to your guys. And JD? I promised not to root against the Cubs during their series (long story), but I will never, ever, root for them.
Rox-Tribe series? I’d enjoy it. Good night, all.
Gee, Dan. It really didn’t take a lot of insight to see that the right was engaged in it’s usual smear tactics in relation to the Frost family. But what’s are you going to do when Krugman gets his Nobel Prize in economics–argue that it should have gone to Goldstein instead?
That’s so clever. The way you turn these carefully built arguments on their head and confound any rejoinder. I’m in awe.
Nazdar, You do know the area! Portillos is good, but I will miss Jay’s Beef even more (oh, and I saw the end of the Blackhawks game – yeeeeehhha! It has been a long time – now Dollar Bill Wirtz is fresh to his dirt nap, Pully is out of the building and hope springs eternal). Oh, that was a bit cruel on my part.
Anyhoo – to all and sundry who want to help – I will be some lengthy time at Fort Riley, training. Contrary to the Roberts and andy’s of the world, we really do plan and train for what we do. When I get to Quagmiraq to be defeated (or whatever Senator Reid says has already happened to me, I forget after the third glass of Shiraz) I will send back my APO and see what my Iraqi brothers in arms might find interesting. The Afghans were easy – Crystal Light and ball point pens. Well, that and building schools, removing mines and UXOs, my father sending thousands of dollars in medical equipment, supplies and such to the Parwan Minister of Health (Dr. Qasim, one of the few absolute heroes I have ever met) managed to raise a few smiles. Oh, and all the clothing, school supplies and such that church groups and Girl and Boy Scount units sent (remember, American religious folks are bigots who hate the Other)…
Professor Caric,
I will offer my life to defend your Freedom of Speech – it is simply something I have sworn to do. However, I may pass from this world laughing at your opinions.
Care to offer up evidence of this “smear”?
I shan’t expect too much out of you. But feel free to exceed my meager expectations.
Nazdar #166 – I can only assume that you are in a mixed marriage, as I am (me, White Sox – the missus, Cubs)
If I were going to Iraq I would get a few boxes of these to take. The packets are easy to carry. They really are pretty strong caffeine-wise and the deal is you can pour it into bottled water and shake and it actually tastes amazingly good (cause it has some fat from evaporated milk I think in it that makes it taste kind of coffee creamy and not watery. That’s what I would get if I were going to Iraq.
) – that goes somewheres
Let’s see if this right wing blogsite will let alternative views be published unlike most (Michelle the Merciless nor FreeRepublic for example).
“Swiftboating” the Frosts? You bet. Typical Fascist, El Salvadoran death squad behavior. Krugman the Bold, really socked it to them. End of Argument.
My argument. Right Wingers want to desolve all social programs including Medicaid. Medicaid saved the life of my friend who’s family income is only 12K a year. Okay, now I know the price of private health insurance. It’s a rip off. The Frosts were right not to buy into it. My former agent smoked all day, drank all night and didn’t do a lick of work except bloviate about “national health care” being bad. and Socialized Medicine as evil. His policy, Mutual of Omaha was the cheapest and I never got a penny for all the thousands I spent there. I dumped my local car insurance agent when he complained about Geico being cheaper as it was associated with the Govt. He was correct. He played golf all day and when I asked him about a state law on the internet about car insurance he didn’t even know it existed. I knew then he was an ignorant Republican, lazy to boot….like most private insurance men….and dumped him and saved money at Geico.
Govt. insurance? you bet. Anytime it’s better than private. ask a Real Chilean …they hate their privately run social security as it takes 20 percent off the top and their former govt. run one is still giving better benefits than the private one (only govt. employees were allowed to stay on the govt. )
At least the govt is accountable unlike private insurance.
so you Rightwingers want the Frosts to be forced to pay 1200 dollars a month for health insurance? Get a life.
jeesh, glad I got the discussion back on track. talking about Subway’s cookies and Professional Sports? wow, that’s real thinking!
So opines “datadave”:
“Let’s see if this right wing blogsite will let alternative views be published unlike most (Michelle the Merciless nor FreeRepublic for example). “Swiftboating†the Frosts? You bet. Typical Fascist, El Salvadoran death squad behavior. Krugman the Bold, really socked it to them. End of Argument.”
(Rest deleted for brevity by DrivelPurge)
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! (sound of the Cave Bear falling out of his chair, laughing)
Tell you what, Goober. When you actually come up with an argument, let the denizens here know. In the meantime, be glad you posted this when you did (while everyone else is asleep), else you would have been well and truly cockslapped, just as “robert” was earlier, and deservedly so.
okay, dimwit…let’s see your argument?
e.g. we (the US) have the highest costs per capita for heathcare…but our health care system has some of the lowest stats of any developed nation. Point in fact: we have about 50 million uninsured…..except for delayed overpriced care in E-rooms (I’ll admit to visiting one once or twice, let’s see if you’ll admit to anything a**hole..just responding to your level of discourse..)
Cave Bear,,, waiting for your response. ‘course you’re just probably retarded or something. But let’s see for example instead of name calling…..some facts please?
I work for a living so I don’t have a trust fund to sit around and post all day on the bloggosphere like the (right)wingnuts. still in your pajamas are you?
I have two jobs, datadave. Or should I call you Class Envy Guy? If those were Rethugs taking the system for a ride, with $400k in real property and 3 such gas-guzzling vehicles, you’d probably think of them as you do golf-guy, above, you hypocrite.
And as far as you go, Ric, what you mean by “smearing” or the left generally as “stalking” is otherwise referred to as investigative reporting. I’m sorry, but we are not attacking the kid. We are attacking the numbskulls who held his family up as exactly the kind that ought to be benefitting from the program.
I’m about as concerned about Nobel prizes as I am about the Emmys. You know who ought to get a Nobel Peace Prize? The American Soldier.
Danny Boy, I was responding to ‘Cave Bear’. Maybe you’re more civil than the other. But calling the Frosts “Rethugs”…oh well it does rhyme with RePugs?
So tell me, why wouldn’t some smart lower income family not avoid Extortionary Health Insurance rates. Hey, I am here to put the Real Health Care Thugs outta business. I’ve paid a payroll and I am in the construction business and I see both sides of the story. My clients are the Economic Aristocracy..but their contractors tend to be uninsured. So maybe that’s what the future entails: a class system similar to Malkin’s Filipines or our wonderful former colony Haiti. Read Krugman with an open mind. The guy’s brave and a genius unlike your heroes: Rush and Bush. And Dan Rather was right: Bush did use his “class privilege” to get out going to Vietnam. Kerry who volunteered but didn’t need to go….he went and then bravely complained about the evil our nation did there. Thus he was Swiftboated by Right Wing scum who can’t get a grip that they were losers in a losing war.
call me names like “class envy guy” oh well. true to form.
Buddy, you make the same error everyone else on the left does, because it’s convenient. The 1200 per month is ex post facto, now that two of the children have long-term health issues. They are NOW preexisting conditions. Before the accident, they were not, and the family could have had good insurance for around $400, or about what one might pay for a payment on the Suburban.
You know, just check your facts. Haiti has never been a US colony. It was at one time a French one, and US soldiers did intervene in a civil war there, once.
John Kerry has never released the entirety of his Form 180 documentation, though he’s promised to do so on several occasions. The Swift Boat Veterans seem rather more trustworthy on these issues, as John’s already had to retract his seared-in recollections of Christmas in Cambodia (soon to be a major motion picture) and the time he tossed his medals onto the White House lawn, not to mention the manifest falsehood of his testimony under oath to Congress in the Winter Soldier matter. In other words, Swiftboating means smearing someone in an ironical sense, only. For example:
Dude, why did you drink all my beer.
Hey, man. Stop Swiftboating me! (hic)
And as a final matter, is Class Envy Guy somehow more insulting than wingnut? If so, explain why, please.
So datadave and the perfesser have reading comprehension problems.
Dave. Healthcare isn’t a right. It is a market that has been greatly influenced by trial lawyers.Want to lower the cost? Reform tort law as it applies to healthcare. But hey. If it’s easier to get the public to foot the bill, go for it.
@ 175 jeesh, glad I got the discussion back on track.
@ 180 Right Wing scum… were losers in a losing war.
…
…
still in your pajamas are you?
Nope, nekkid as a jaybird.
hey, if I didn’t insult you, you’d just up the ante and do it more. I know the Right wing well….grew almost from the tit from it.. my aunt’s actually. She was a crazy divorced (3 times) single mom who got religion and moved to Idaho from California decades ago..motivated by fundementalism xristo fascism. I used to believe all that antiCommie bull when I was a kid too. Then reality struck, Reagan was elected and I saw the real Right wing suck our nation dry. Mostly coke heads with blond smug faces. No more regulation of work sites…damn dangerous too. And Social Security taxes went through the roof…thanks to Reagan and some conservative Dems too. Now our ‘War on the Middle Class (terror too)’ is almost completely funded by the working classes social security payments. Don’t kid yourself, your earned income is funding the unearned income’s big bucks making in Iraq. Look at those contractors over there.
Someone should remind us of the Al Gore’s worries about putting our Social Security payments into a “lock box”. At least he was honest about it. I admit Dems are guilty of robbing that box too…but not to the extent that Reagan and Bush 2 are.
Watch it, I just got my coffee buzz.
Haiti was Occupied by the US for several decades.. and is still an economic “colony”, or at least was making baseballs at a dollar a day. And we still feel free to invade it once in awhile..if that’s not a ‘banana republic’ sort of colony then what is? Philipines, ditto. Two of the poorist nations on earth are former protectorates, ‘economic colonies’ whatever…and still I got to hear from a former Seabee how he enjoyed running down kids at the dumps in the Filipino gulag. I was shocked when he went to talking about gangrapping some Filipino gal…..left that job soon after as he was the bosse’s cousin and now only employee left.
Hey, it’s a Saturday. Hope you get the day off…soon I’ll be off to enjoy it. Sorry can’t argue all day.
But do you really think our Health care system is even moderately good in how it’s financed. Why shouldn’t the Frost’s or me have affordable insurance? I don’t get how anyone could support such unfairness and bloat! Try getting your teeth fixed after decades of fillings going bad. The ADA refuses to let more dentists come on line to fill the need and as a result the remaining dentists are making a killing…but underserving the masses of working people who can’t afford Endo’s and Crowns needed to repair all the fillings going bad….when one gets long in the tooth. (showing my age)
I’ve lived abroad and seen it, what you wish for, and it’s a real drag. I have my issues with the insurance industry, as well, and the trial lawyers. So, are the Dems going to stop the madness? As you’re aware, the French colonized Haiti, and the Spanish colonized the Philippines, so if you want to argue regarding post-colonial trauma, those would be good places to start. However, when I consider the countries that surround the Philippines, I can’t think of one that I’d rather live in. Can you?
If you think that the wait for a dentist is long now . . . just wait.
Hunh.
Hypothetical situation, guys. You do know what that means, I take it.
Suppose Republicans had decided to use the Frosts as an example. The grandfather has a little money. Picture young Graeme, surrounded by Republican leaders and the admiring Press, arguing for abolition of inheritance taxes on the ground that if Daddy can inherit he, Graeme, can get the medical care he needs without being a burden on anyone. Given what’s known about the Frosts’ situation it makes at least as much sense as what has happened and maybe more.
Would the exposure of the Frosts’ wastrel ways and irresponsibility then constitute “smearing”? Discuss.
Regards,
Ric
[…] A Rick Lockean thought experiment: Hypothetical situation, guys. You do know what that means, I take it. […]
okay, you got a point about the Philipines…where M. Malkin’s family hails from. Indonesia, yikes! ‘course our CIA okayed that killing of about a million ethnic Chinese and commies back in the “year of living dangerously” (while Jimmy Carter was in office…so I don’t have much patience with dixiecrats either_) putting a bunch of Islamics in power via the military.
I have REAL Issues about our Legal Disfunction too. But don’t think Doctors and Lawyers are on the opposing team. Think more like how they both rob working people during a time of crisis and see how our system is innately corrupt. I for one believe in a separation of powers: but the flaw in our Constitution is that we allow one occupation to dominate all branches of govt. By allowing a monopoly in one branch, and then allowing that occupation to infiltrate it’s monopolistic profession into the other branches: legislative (nearly 50 percent lawyers), and executive (presidential…high percent too) we have a problem with God ordained Constitution….(not ‘godly’ imo…and should be reformed).
But blame the lawyers only. Health care costs won’t go down if you scrap all the high payments to victims. It’s an extortionary, parasitic system and health insurance was invented to just guarantee payments to the ‘providers’ (history of Blue Cross/Blue Shield), not to provide health care to the ‘customers’.
why aren’t the critics of the Frosts telling us what all they are making and how they fund health care. I’d like to know what Michelle Malkin’s annual income and her status of health benefits for example. And Rush Limbaugh’s. Aren’t you even mildly curious?
thanks for at least allowing ‘alternative’ view points (like the Nation does too). freerepublic doesn’t and just try getting on the Rush Limbaugh show for example…….now there’s a real joke. HOW NAIVE could I be…
“I don’t get how anyone could support such unfairness and bloat! Try getting your teeth fixed after decades of fillings going bad. The ADA refuses to let more dentists come on line to fill the need and as a result the remaining dentists are making a killing…”
So you understand the problem, yet you think the solution is to allow the medical cartel to use the government to force people to pay their even more inflated prices? That lacks any semblance of logic, dave.
I keep asking this question: Why is a monopoly acceptable only in the medical profession? amd no one who supports it will ever acknowledge it.
I think low-cost, high-quality legal representation ought to be provided every American.
B Moe,
It’s not that monopolies in that one profession are acceptable to the left. It is that only monopolies by the government are acceptable.
dave,
You complain that our gov’t is monopolized by lawyers, which you see as a bad thing. Yet you’re willing to turn the entire health care system, lock, stock and barrel over to it. Does not compute.
“At least the govt is accountable unlike private insurance.” I did not think it possible, but this is quite simply the dumbest comment ever vomited up.
And no, datadave, we complain that their childrens’ lives obviously weren’t a very high priority BEFORE the accident. But, why don’t you lend them a hand. Throw a few bucks their way.
First, that’s not an argument, it’s an assertion. Second, nowhere do you substantiate that assertion, which is what’s required to make an argument.
I think we need to go out and actually recruit dissenters. This waiting for the quality to come to us just isn’t working out.
“So you understand the problem, yet you think the solution is to allow the medical cartel to use the government to force people to pay their even more inflated prices? That lacks any semblance of logic, dave.”
I agree. I am against both Ms. Clinton’s and Mitt Romney’s plans of forcing people like myself (about 40K a year, doing hard labor in construction) to pay exorbitant rates. I checked in Mass’ state’s new health care law (signed on by a Repub. Gov and Dem. legis. ) and noticed that I’d get no subsidy for health care and that I’d pay about 15 percent of my above average income (still in the 30s per working person in USA). I’d not be able to afford all the gasoline I need to drive to jobs in my profession. (Someone build an affordable Electric Truck Please!)
However that’s the current consensus with health care reform.. the grand compromise of Dems and Repubs: sock it to the lower middle class.
Now, maybe there’s a problem with our govt. but at least I can help vote out a policy in the govt…. which does listen to the vote….but here now with health care run by unaccountable corporations..there is but one vote, a negative and risky one: to opt out (pay unfair and high rates or not pay at all…IMO the Frosts did the correct thing!).. and perhaps….ruin one’s credit and perhaps become a negative statistic in the future, but none the less choosing not to impoverish oneself to pay for some aristocratic elite to exploit you which is how the insurance racket works at the present time.
just try getting on the Rush Limbaugh show [with an alternative viewpoint] for example
Just try getting on his show, even if you agree with him.
Wow. I gotta go to work now, and if I read any more of dave’s posts imma be too dizzy to drive. Laters.
One quicky in parting: I also work in construction, make in the 40s, and my 401k has a good chunk in the insurance business. Am I an aristocrat?
40l K..sorry. had one of those once but at 40 k a year you’re probably not putting enough in to make much of a difference.. that’s just reality. Am ‘self employed’ so called..the latest fad in residential construction: illegal, under the radar, ‘subcontracting’…. sorry, had a ‘real job’ once but this is all the work that came my way 6 mos ago. Still negoiating with the ‘boss’ on how to get on the books. But nearly all the contractors now are doing “free agency” meaning subbing all their work though according to IRS rules it’s not legal… “legal?” that doesn’t stop Republicans from hiring illegal aliens for example. I’ll admit there are a few Democrats doing this too. But the one’s doing construction and ‘subcontracting day to day carpenters etc while listening to Rush whine on the radio….tend to be ‘conservative’.
later b moe. dizzy? non sequitars are my specialty. spelling? gotta go.
Sorry, datadave. But as a person who’s on both sides of that problem, depending on circumstances, I do have a slightly different viewpoint.
The problem your boss has isn’t primarily the money. Oh, he doesn’t want to pay out more than he has to, because if he does somebody else will get the contract more cheaply, but the main thing is the hassle. Paperwork, miles and miles of paperwork, for the Feds and the State and the City and the County and the Special District for Accommodation of Left-Handed Lesbians is more of it, but the capper is the seemingly endless parade of smarmy, self-righteous twenty-five-year-old “inspectors” who couldn’t tell you which nail goes in which wall by looking at the point, but are absolutely sure that he’s Exploiting the Poor Workers and demand time, money, and the opportunity to insult him just to let him keep supervising the placement of stone upon stone.
And your solution is to add to this regulatory burden. It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
Regards,
Ric
For years I’ve searched for the kernel of integrity, of principle, of anything, that the Left could or would use to display some semblance of right and just political theory. I’ve found none — it’s pure emotion and it has no moral checks and balances.
But if there is one kernel of truth there, it is the realization that the corporatization of politics — what is more accurately defined as the sheer buying of law by every for-profit special interest under the sun — is an important problem.
datadave speaks a truth here that more conservative and libertarians (yes, libertarians) would be wise to reread and heed: (1) Your government has been and is being overrun by lawyers. These lawyers (2) are for-profit lobbyists, politicians, and all manner of other influencers. There is no such thing as a functional system in DC or in your own statehouse (3) of constitutional check and balance against anyone simply buying their group a law.
From there its a short step to making that law determine how you live, what you do, what you say, how much you earn and pay, where your assets go, how you run your business, who you employ, how your medical situation is handled, if you see your own kids, whether you’ll keep your own property, what you eat, how you work, how you’re insured, what you drive, what you purchase, and virtually how you worship.
It’s time we realized that, and that when we say there’s not a dime’s worth of difference between political parties, this is what we should be pointing to.
Iraq is a polarizing issue. Abuse of constitutionally-integral domestic law should not be. Making the State our master by way of special interest should not be.
The system is indeed dysfunctional and it is because nobody’s really making a concerted effort to stem the river of sewage we call domestic, social law flowing out of the offices of our alleged public servants.
When the system finally fails, and a Hilary and her 51% come for all of your stuff, it’ll be because we stood around, talking.
The American Dental Association is a Rethuglican plot according to datadave? Who knew? Rove you evil genius!
“Buddy, you make the same error everyone else on the left does, because it’s convenient. The 1200 per month is ex post facto, now that two of the children have long-term health issues. They are NOW preexisting conditions. Before the accident, they were not, and the family could have had good insurance for around $400, or about what one might pay for a payment on the Suburban.”
So lets make it a problem of that insurance company and all of its subscribers, hope to god that it never goes under or the Frosts never have to switch, and its like this medical care is magically paid for. And we get to have a simple solution by talking about what should have happened rather than dealing with what did.
Which is why my focus was and is not on health care per se, but rather on the circumstances surrounding the poster family who have been raised up as exemplars — and which, in turn, is why andy et al will not discuss it in those terms.
andy brings up “asset stripping”, which is precisely why I chose the inheritance tax as a “hook”. According to (at least some of) the more left-leaning Democrats, “asset stripping” is the whole point of an inheritance tax — the inheritors (under that rubric) don’t deserve the money — they should get out and work for it themselves — which would make the Frosts barn-sized targets for the Left in a debate over inheritances.
I will allow myself to be sidetracked in so far as to address andy’s last pseudo-point, viz., there are many levels of insurance available. In States with “financial responsibility” (=”subsidy for the insurance industry”) laws, it is common to find insurance companies offering the bare-minimum of liability only at a cut-rate price, and such companies often also offer just enough hull insurance on the vehicle to satisfy the lenders who financed it. Such insurance is cheap, but it does not cover things like medical insurance for passengers who are members of the family because the purchaser doesn’t pay for that. And remember — nobody is asking for additional coverage for Graeme Frost and his sister because they are already covered by their State’s version of S-CHIP. What is being argued for is extension of S-CHIP, with the Frosts taken as exemplars of people who need it — and sober investigation of their circumstances shows that if they need it, it is to some extent their own friggin’ fault, and asking others (who may be, and often are, in even more straitened circumstances through no fault of their own) to bail them out is not what I consider “fair”.
Regards,
Ric
The government education isn’t good enough for their kids, but they enthusiastically want to shunt us down the path of government healthcare. They pay their property taxes on the $260,000 house and the $160,000 commercial property but don’t avail themselves of the schools this money pays for. So they seem to envision a sort of cafeteria welfare society, where you just grab the choice bits and spurn the government dreck.
That’s pretty honest liberalism right there.
Ric, the thing is, the fact the Frosts opted out of having their own insurance to use SCHIP, is what makes them the ideal virtuous citizens in the eyes of those seeking to expand the program. They want everyone to be just like the Frosts — and when we come along and say that the decision the Frosts made isn’t the right one, the effect is like splashing bacon grease all over the worshippers in a mosque.
Insurance companies don’t make money on insurance premiums. That money is paid out almost as soon as it’s paid in. Insurance companies make money on investments. That is where their profits come from.
I’d really like to hear dave’s take on oil companies. i bet it’s a hoot.
Rusty,
You cannot succeed very long in the nsurance businees if your “combined ratio” is 100 or more (that means you have spent more than your premium income). Investment income can help make you more profitable, or shield you against temporary soft market conditions, but you really have to try and keep the old combined ratio down.
But you are right that it is much more difficult to do so with auto. Thank God my Swiss Insurance Behemoth employer doesn’t do anything other than fleet/commercial stuff as far as autos go.
But what’s are you going to do when Krugman gets his Nobel Prize in economics–argue that it should have gone to Goldstein instead?
That’s a helluva non sequitur, Professor. But as a member of Krugman’s (former) profession, I have to say if he ever gets the Bank of Sweden Prize (not really a Nobel in Economics, as Nobel himself didn’t lay it out) I’ll shrug.
And datadave, your style of argumentation reminds me of the business end of a pygmy hippo.
Major – On the short tail personal lines coverages especially, the cash goes out the door fast. On some of the commercial stuff, the cash can be very sticky, those reserves can go up but the cash doesn’t go out the door for years. You can make money at north of a 100% combined, especially with a leveraged balance sheet, but it shouldn’t be your going in pricing objective.
datadave is arguing? Is that what they call spewing tons of accusations and hoping no one calls you on all of them?
I don’t have time to read all the comments — Robert’s annoying, and I’m sitting pretty in an expensive (and comped) Chicago hotel room, so I’d rather not be annoyed — but there’s one point I’d like to make:
All this talk about politicians using children — from right and left alike — is utter nonsense. The left exploits a child, the right screams; the right exploits a child, the left screams; then the left exploits another child, and the right screams again; then the right exploits another child, and the left screams again, &c. It’s worse than politics-as-usual — it’s boring politics-as-usual.
Ideally, blogs would ignore such political spectacle; instead, they demonstrate how weak-minded so many of our fellow citizens are. Why do I say they’re weak-minded? Because they fall for the traps politicians set for them.
Think about it: we have this opportunity to set the agenda, but instead of doing that, the biggest political bloggers serve as an ad hoc PR service for the idiots who run campaigns. Blogs aren’t citizen journalists — they’re citizen fact-checkers doing free labor for the political machines responsible for the vacuousness of contemporary politics.
If bloggers ignored the mainstream media instead of critiquing it — if they read bills instead of policy statements, or even policy statements instead of PR releases — all that “citizen journalism” triumphalism might amount to something.
(Sorry for the meta-comment, but I’m here talking about blogging, so wish-casting’s the order of the day.)
(Also, two mentions on the front page in a day? Accolades, I love me some accolades.)
But the MSM, it does not ignore the blogs. The Matthew Hay Brown kid at the Baltimore Sun, The New York Times, and others all used blog comments to characterize the right in a pretty bad light. The asymmetry is that the MSM would never similarly reach into blog comments of lefty blogs to build a case against the left. And also, exploiting addled children is wrong, and especially so when the rapacious little tyke wants my money.
All I really ask is to work, smoke, and die, you know?
“Insurance companies don’t make money on insurance premiums. That money is paid out almost as soon as it’s paid in. Insurance companies make money on investments. That is where their profits come from.”
If premiums are paid out as soon as they come in, what money are they investing?
No smokes for you, happy … but if you’d like a $12 swig of Grey Goose, I’m your man.
Do you know I drank that for years before finding out it was French?
Mortifying.
You realize, of course, that the entire state of Louisiana is French, right? Have you forsaken breasts as well?
(Because if you haven’t, I can have you an “authentic” blackened chicken sandwich in about half an hour … but it’ll cost you $31.)
Louisiana is … troubling.
Chicago is so worth it though, visiting-wise. I keep trying to get a deal here when I go but no luck so far. Last time I stayed here and it was really, really dirty – like mysterious smears on the wall dirty – and they only had Internet in the lobby. It was supposed to be all glamorous cause Robert Redford or somebody lived there while shooting some movie in the 60s. If you’re downtown, you know where the Billy Goat is yes? You can feed yourself for not a lot and drink and also you can smoke there.
But have a good time – if you have time for one of those architectural boat ride things it really is worth it to see the city from the river and the guides are all pretty smart and well-read from what I understand.
I know you don’t smoke, but you could is all, which is different than Irvine.
I’m staying here, and there’s a very expensive dinner to be served in two hours, so I’m sticking around. Plus, I want to see the keynote, so I’m not going to get out and see the town. I’d spent yesterday afternoon wandering around the city appreciating the architecture — and what, I say, WHAT is LSU doing? — sorry, but I flew in yesterday and am flying out tomorrow. Recommendations are appreciated, though, as I’ll be back in December. (Though not in quite so swanky circumstances: if there’s one thing about conservative organizations, it’s that they have money … but they’re still going to make me pay for the Grey Goose, I suppose.)
What’s really odd is that I can navigate the city based on my research — so many of the novels I work on are about Chicago (Dreiser, Sinclair, Churchill, &c.), and since they’re so doggedly realist, I know my way around the city.
But as for Louisiana, well, I love it, but I’m not welcome there anymore. There’s a long, sordid, but great story about that … but needless to say, I pissed off the wrong people, and will get beaten bloody if I ever go back to Baton Rouge.
(I have now completely hijacked this thread … and since I have, well, Geaux Tigers!)
That looks sweet, and you should blog about Baton Rouge some day – it’s way different now if what my FEMA friend says is right. I don’t really have anything against Louisiana, just burned out on it. I blame NPR really.
I think Jeff might rather like that Wood guy, if I read this sentence right…
…but these sorts of things tend to be complicated, and that’s not exactly a clear description I guess.
Nice. Enjoy, and have a drink for us.
I’m currently chilling out on the 30-somethingth floor of this with an expensive dinner behind me, a burning desire for another Maker’s Mark Manhattan, Red Sox fever in full bloom, and the bases loaded.
Life is good.
And the run walks in, bases still loaded.
I feel like there ought to be some guilt associated with this. But screw that.
BRING ON THE ROCKIES!!!
BTW, SEK, if you’re of a mind to do so, don’t miss your opportunity to take in Buddy Guy’s Legends.
I’ve got a great story to go with that recommendation, but it works best over drinks and not on a blog. Really, if you’ve got an ear for the blues, make the effort to go to Buddy’s.
happy, after listening to Wood tonight … and um, well, read my blog tomorrow for all the embarrassing details, but needless to say, I don’t think Jeff would find Wood too amenable for many of the reasons I didn’t. Of course, Jeff didn’t have the opportunity to confront him in front of a packed house, and therefore didn’t … la dee da, I’m off to have another drink, the one that’ll make me forget what I did … for now. (Christ, I’m really an idiot sometimes.)
Pablo, I can’t think of the blues without thinking of Tabby’s … and Tabby’s closed, and a bit of me died inside. I actually haven’t listened to the blues since.
Sorry about the Sox. I’m an odd sort of Sox fans: I’m a Mets fan, but my loathing of the Yankees has eclipsed my hatred of the Sox … plus, you know, 1/4 of the Sox’s infield is good for the Jews.
I actually, do indeed, hate children. So much so, that I’m against Roe v. Wade, because I want more children born so they can suffer in poor households. And, if they don’t get hooked on drugs or die of AIDS – both implanted in the vast american ghetto’s by right wing bridge club members, they then grow up to join the military because they have no other options so we can send them to fight illegal wars to line our pockets deeper.
It’s all true. Everything you say, Robert. I just want you to understand, it’s not greed. It’s a hatred of children.
who’s ‘robert’? Krugman’s name is Paul. Anyway. Pretty lame Satire above. How about Ann Coulter unable to keep a man? Why no kids? Does anyone think she’s capable of love, let alone an orgasm? Michelle Malkin, ditto. She’s still going off on that poor kid who’s parents were smart enough to get on Schip. (Btw, my conservative Republican Gov. in my state Loves S-chip and wants to expand it..) The kid’s mom is pretty foxy imo. Looks like she eats good food and has fun in bed. Ann Coulter isn’t bad looking….but fun in bed. No way!
Liberals are the Lovers. Conservatives? eh, how about hates kids And greedy as Beagle in front of a sausage.
Just saw a Beagle a little while ago. Perfect Republican. Little short legs and fat belly and doesn’t know when to stop barking and stop eating. Now Liberals are Labs! We like to play and have fun and Not go to the Hospital. Conservatives seem to think everyone likes going to the hospital.
Now I’ll admit Ann Coulter doesn’t look like a Beagle. She looks like those weird hairless Chinese dogs. Gotta love those legs. Is that all she has to offer? And straight hair. She’s always making a point of showing ’em off.
Dave, ‘Robert’ was the first commenter on this thread (see ‘way above). One question for you: why is it that when the left feels a need to attack a female opponent, they go after the woman’s looks instead of her words or actions?
Ha, for one….she ‘displays’ her legs so meaningfully. second, she’s relished for her looks by the right. I was amazed that she’s was both a fairly accomplished lawyer..And that she’s a “DeadHead”. I mean she’s all for the War on Drugs ….and all the other wars…but how she support a Band that’s so part of the 60s and 70s Drug Culture?
I am sexist perhaps. But in a good natured sexual way. I really hate how Fred Thompson looks…but know that a lot of Republican women think he’s ‘buff’. Really!
Prof. Ric, looks like Krugman’s going to have to wait a little longer for that “Nobel”:
http://www.svd.se/dynamiskt/inrikes/did_17297293.asp
Woo-hoo! Mechanism design theory!
I actually don’t give a whole lot of thought to the love lives of complete strangers. Possibly that makes me unusual.
You doubtless think that she’s asking for it.
datadave – What does Ann Coulter’s marital status have to do with the price of beans in China? Good Allah, you are tiresome.
Compare and contrast the reaction to datadave’s spittle flecked invective, and the reaction to
faggot.Douchenozzle
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555 Republic Drive, Ste # 440
Plano, TX 75074
Direct: (469) 326-2233
Fax: (972) 424-2203
Email: lsmith@wrsol.com
Website: http://www.wrsol.com
Oh, this is going to work. For sure.
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