Watching John Murtha stammer and hedge when confronted directly about having preemptively (and, it so happens, erroneously) convicted the Haditha Marines of murdering Iraqi civilians “in cold blood”: absolutely friggin’ priceless.
****
update: Murtha’s heartache continues. From Reuters:
The U.S. Marines have dismissed charges against an officer accused of failing to report accurately the U.S. killing of 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha in 2005.
Capt. Lucas McConnell was granted immunity by Camp Pendleton’s commanding officer, Lt. Gen. James Mattis, and will cooperate in the remaining Haditha prosecutions, the Marines said in a statement.
McConnell monitored fighting in and around Haditha but was not at the scene when women and children were among those killed in two Iraqi homes after a Marine beloved by his unit was killed by a roadside bomb.
“Lt. Gen. Mattis determined that administrative measures are the appropriate response for any errors or omissions allegedly committed by McConnell,” the Camp Pendleton statement said.
The commanding officer of Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, McConnell had been charged with two counts: failing to report the incident accurately to higher authorities and failing to ensure a thorough investigation.
Military prosecutors initially charged eight Marines, including four officers, in the case. Marine authorities have since dismissed charges against four of them.
They include McConnell; Sergeant Sanick Dela Cruz, a key witness against alleged ringleader and quad leader Frank Wuterich; Lance Corporal Justin Sharratt and Captain Randy Stone.
In a hearing this month, Wuterich admitted he shot some of the victims but in a proper response to attacks on Marines.
(h/t Topsecretk9)
Hee! Hee! Squirming like the worm that he is. What a disgrace!
“Is the trial still in progress?”
Uh, they’re dropping the charges because there isn’t enough evidence to HAVE a trial. It’s unlikely we’ll get an official declaration of innocence a la Duke non-rape. I wonder if the marines can sue Murtha for defaming them.
– And another Liberal bites the big one. John “it isn’t criminal if you’re just listening to offers” “Mothra” should be asked to step down from his Senate seat. Period. The hard Left, and the Congress weinies that dance like a trained monkey to their tune need to be sent a message loud and clear. Are you and your brown shirts listening Jane sweety.
– I notice Pelosi and Reid are MIA these days. They both need to be pinned to the chamber walls on this same question, having said things similar to Murtha. Loved the reporters parting shot between the eyes; “[this] is something you’d expect coming from al Jazeera”. Heh……
Crow. The other yellow meat.
BB:
Murtha is a Rep, not a Senator. Agreed on everything else.
Nit picking: the other white meat!
Hero of the piece: Elevator dude.
Aside: I can’t believe Congress still hires people to push the elevator buttons so they don’t have to.
gah! “is the trial still going on?” um, that didn’t stop you from commenting before, jerk!
Maggie:
The best part being that they are still in the Article 32 portion of the investigation. The investigating officer has made multiple recommendations that the evidence does not warrant a court martial for several of the Marines. So we are well within our rights to say something along the lines of, “The trial hasn’t even started yet you doddering, hateful, senile old wombat!”
But that would be ungracious. :-)
I can’t believe Congress still hires people to push the elevator buttons so they don’t have to.
Probably a “make-work” thing, like banning self-serve gas stations in Jersey and Oregon.
From the Hot Air link to Gannon:
Respect my authoriaaay!
– DOH~ …. Once again I get my Senators and Reps screwed up…. Anyway Rep fits him nicely….”Reprehensible”.
– Re his Korea remark…. Apparently he was so ugly even the Canteen girls, who are known to accept almost anyone for a plane ticket to California, couldn’t stomach him, and man, thats bad ugly.
Of course, Murtha is correct that the one Marine has already plead guilty and charges are pending against two others (including the leader Staff Sgt. Wutterich). Notice how how intrepid reporter keeps mentioning the names of Tatum adn Sharrat only. It’s because he’s knows his ambush is premature and he’s trying to look pretty for the Hot Air crowd.
Murtha’s point about the incident, which, despite the crowing here on Protein W, is not over, was that these Marines were over-stressed by constant action. it’s unfortunate that he uttered the words that so rile the Protein Wisdom, Ace of Spades, Hot Air crowd, but your inability to see the larger point subject to being distracted by a phrase has always been amazing to those of us who lurk.
Murtha should apologize to Cpl Sharrat for what happened to Cpl Sharrat. You guys and gals should take a moment before doing a premature victory dance to realize you’re celebrating the fact that Marines blew up and shot women and children and, whether or not it was deemed criminal by the later (obstructed) investigation, it’s not exactly beneficial to our efforts in Iraq then or now.
Or are their deaths less important than scoring a supposed victory over a Rep who will win his next election by 15 or more points?
Thanks for your time.
I’d say dismissing murder charges and other criminal charges against the other Marines was appropriate. But the big fish has yet to be fried. Col Conlin and Gen Mattis are still working on that one. What Murtha did was despicable, but he may yet turn out to be correct.
– Two wrongs correct nothing Mike. you may actually come to understand that later. Murtha doesn’t give a flying fuck about anything but politics as usual. I know you’re not defending his actions, but vandaley thinks we’re being premature. What would the Left say about Murtha going in front of the entire nation with statements that were both unknowable at the time, and incorrect in some instances, and rapacious prejudging on his part. Would you characterize that as “premature”.
– You know, style and substance count. If the far Left ever figures that out we’ll all be in trouble. But I wouldn’t bet the farm on that happening any time soon. “Its for the greater good” after all.
Really? Who is that?
Oh, and charges aren’t pending. An Article 32 hearing is pending, and the ones that have happened thus far have resulted in no charges. Way to get your facts completely wrong.
The fact that it was Wutterich’s first combat experience notwithstanding. Scott Beauchamp could explain, from Kuwait.
Don’t go, Vandalay, we have so much to learn from you! Teach us, Vandalay, teach us!
“I quit college to go to Korea, I volunteered to go to Vietnam…”
Best Response: Do you LIKE the way Vietnam vets were treated?
I can’t get the clip to load, must be getting slammed, I did like this in the YouTube comments:
“sedition?? LOL. Criticizing the president is not “sedition.” The Confederates were seditionists. Get your facts straight and stop using words the wrong way for your own gain.”
And Vandalay, fuck you:
“You guys and gals should take a moment before doing a premature victory dance to realize you’re celebrating the fact that Marines blew up and shot women and children and, whether or not it was deemed criminal by the later (obstructed) investigation, it’s not exactly beneficial to our efforts in Iraq then or now.”
Nobody here is celebrating any such thing, we are enjoying seeing a disgraceful sonofabitch who blanketly pronounced men guilty of cold-blooded murder before the investigation was over get his face rubbed in it. Go take your silly ass pandering somewhere else, you are wasting your time here. You don’t have the chops.
What an assbandit. I wish, just once, that when a politician of either party sticks their foot so far into their mouth it comes out their sphincter, instead of spinning, diverting attention, and dissembling, just outright apologizes for their blatant stupidity. How fucking hard is it to do that?
vandalay,
As a lurker here, you should know that one of our host’s main motivations, if not the primary motivation, is the continual struggle by this nation’s various interest groups to control the narrative.
Murtha’s comments about these Marines slaughtering innocents in cold blood were of a piece with his compatriots’ efforts to paint our troops as mindless automatons/poor, uneducated dead-enders with no other options/Bush’s personal stormtroopers/vicious bloody-minded sociopaths/innocent naifs caught up in world events beyond their control. Never mind that these descriptions are inaccurate (and that several of them contradict others), and please don’t question the patriotism of those who wield the broad brush.
My problem with Murtha is that in his eagerness to advance his side’s narrative (alternatively, his blindness in the face of years of brainwashing by his peers), he threw his fellow Marines under the bus. Never mind that the investigation was under way; never mind that his evidence was incomplete and came from biased sources; never mind that these were “his guys.” No, he was happy to slander his brother Marines in the service of his own partisan goals.
Like most people here, when I hear of unprofessional behavior shown by our troops, I am ashamed and dismayed. I even get angry because this behavior hurts the honor of our troops, puts them in further danger, and works against the success of the mission. However, I also acknowledge that these incidents are not the rule; they are the exception. I acknowledge that almost all of our troops perform with a level of discipline and professionalism that I personally could not maintain (I’m notoriously short-tempered). I acknowledge that our military does a good job of finding and punishing those who don’t adhere to the level of conduct we expect of them.
Murtha’s remarks were unforgivable. He pronounced his fellow Americans guilty before they’d had any chance to defend themselves. What’s more, his fellow travellers didn’t call him out for it. A chorus of voices exquisitely tuned to protest certain government officials for acting with incomplete intelligence data suddenly went silent when other government officials acted with incomplete intelligence data.
Cliff’s Notes version:If the Marines are guilty, we will be happy to see them punished, because no man should be allowed to bring dishonor to his unit and his country. But regardless of whether the Marines are guilty, Murtha’s comments are unforgivable, because no man should be allowed to bring dishonor to his unit and his country.
Murtha assumed the worst of his fellow Marines, declaring them guilty by default, and in doing so he reinforced the impression that they should be considered cold-blooded murderers. How does that help the honor of the Corps or the nation? How does that advance the mission? It doesn’t. But it does help Murtha achieve his personal goals. For that, I hold him in utter contempt.
B Moe, I don’t who you are or what sort of name that is (sounds like something from Jim Rome’s radio show), but you can kiss my pink ass, if invective is all you add.
Pablo, the guy’s name is Sgt. Sanick P. Dela Cruz. I’m sorry you don’t know the facts of the case. Sgt. Dela Cruz is the government’s (you know the one you say you support) main witness against Wutterich. Do some reading Pablo and less youtube watching and you too can master who is charged and who is not charged.
BJtxs, standing on the procedural grounds of a preliminary hearing and claiming it is not part of a trial may sound impressive to your friends here, but Murtha knew there was a hearing going one, which seems to be more than most of the victory dancers here can muster.
As for me, it’s been fun, but I think I’ll go back to Red State where the people are less likely to swear at everyone who disagrees with them.
Oh, and some of them eve know what they’re talking about.
PS Unless telling people to fuck off means one has chops. Because that really hurt my feelings from such a solid veteran of the US Armed Forces as you, B Moe…..yep, that’s me betting again that you don’t what the fuck you’re talking about or who you are talking to. Prick
Where was Mr. Murtha’s concern about a trial when he declared these Marines HAD COMITTED these crimes, and accused the chain of command with a cover up?
Nope, Mr. Murtha is a disgrace. What ever honor he may once have had has long ago washed away.
…but Murtha knew there was a hearing going one, which seems to be more than most of the victory dancers here can muster.
Most of the “victory dancers” here were quite aware that an investigation has under way. We just consider it unacceptable for a member of the United States Congress to go before the press and proclaim his fellow Marines guilty of murder while an investigation is ongoing.
Whether or not the Marines are guilty, Murtha’s still a self-serving ass undeserving of respect. Why do you feel compelled to defend him?
– vandelay – As usual, you miss the point. I didn’t see anyone in a single instance of this entire threat defend the guilty. You’re playing strawman again to deflect. Murtha is the worst sort of political hack, and you know it. Yet you defend by attack the actions of someone you wouldn’t spit on I suspect, by deflecting. As I said before. If the Left ever figures out that feckless tactics may by them time, but eventually is doomed to sink their ideological ship, then we’ll have something to worry about.
– Your own arguments, or rather lack thereof, come back to hit you in the ass like one of Kerry’s most excellant granade adventures.
– All you guys need to complete the picture of a gaggle of hapless, immature children arguing with adults, is a “Magic Hat”.
vandalay – That chickenhawk bullshit is so fucking last year. Since all of your Dems are allegedly in favor of beefing up in Afghanistan, why aren’t you running down to the local recruiting office?
Leftist like vandalay are so heavily invested in the “we are losing” meme, etc … That they must defend their fellow travelers in the face of all known facts.
So let me get this straight … Rep. Murtha had no qualms about declaring them to be guilty of cold-blooded murder, while the initial investigation was being undertaken, but now that they are farther along in the process, and it turns out that many/most of the charges are being dropped, he thinks it would be inappropriate to comment about an ongoing investigation?
Fuckers.
“B Moe, I don’t who you are or what sort of name that is (sounds like something from Jim Rome’s radio show), but you can kiss my pink ass, if invective is all you add.”
Oh, jeez, I am so sorry, I didn’t realize accusing people of celebrating the slaughter of innocents was reasoned debate. I guess waiting for an innocent verdict to absolve a Marine of guilt is the height of patriotism, too, huh?
What, nothing to say about Jeff Gannon and his gay porn cock? Of lies?
I feel strangely disappointed…
You would think I would be used to being called a bloodthirsty, sadistic racist by this point, but sometimes it still ticks me off a little.
B Moe – Their mendacity should no longer surprise us, but alas, I manage to get pissed off almost every time too.
I guess you could say Murtha cut and run.
More charges DROPPED — add another to the list – heartache for vandalay
U.S. officer charges dismissed in Haditha killings
Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:09pm EDT
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) – The U.S. Marines have dismissed charges against an officer accused of failing to report accurately the U.S. killing of 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha in 2005.
Capt. Lucas McConnell was granted immunity by Camp Pendleton’s commanding officer, Lt. Gen. James Mattis, and will cooperate in the remaining Haditha prosecutions, the Marines said in a statement.
McConnell monitored fighting in and around Haditha but was not at the scene when women and children were among those killed in two Iraqi homes after a Marine beloved by his unit was killed by a roadside bomb.
“Lt. Gen. Mattis determined that administrative measures are the appropriate response for any errors or omissions allegedly committed by McConnell,” the Camp Pendleton statement said.
The commanding officer of Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, McConnell had been charged with two counts: failing to report the incident accurately to higher authorities and failing to ensure a thorough investigation.
Military prosecutors initially charged eight Marines, including four officers, in the case. Marine authorities have since dismissed charges against four of them.
They include McConnell; Sergeant Sanick Dela Cruz, a key witness against alleged ringleader and quad leader Frank Wute
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1845602020070918
Isn’t vandaly the guy who made the “leave Britney alone!!!” video on Youtube?
It does make you wonder why God, in His infinite wisdom, didn’t arrange it so that Jack’s last name was Mooshbag.
Rep. Murtha did a Coleman Young. During the Malice Green investigation back in the late 1980’s Mayor Young pronounced the police officers under investigation ‘murderers’. Caused a lot of problems, if I recall correctly. First Rule: shut up and just say that you will await the investigation before taking a position on the matter. Second Rule: just shut up.
see guys, it’s not as bad as you think. He was just using these Marines as props for his larger agenda. FOR THE TRUTHINESS!
You want to talk priceless ? That asshat at University of Florida getting tasered at the Kerry talk. Now that is priceless. They are giving me over to the government! Don’t kill me! People know me and know where you are taking me! BusHitler stole the elections! Skull and Bones !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Murtha’s a piece of shit and anyone who attempts to defend him is as well. Vandalay (I’ll just call you Art) and his ilk seem to have no problem with Murtha essentially denying the accused Marines due process but turn around and shed big sloppy tears over Gitmo detainees who have gotten it. Prick, indeed.
You know, right or wrong, appropriate to comment or inappropriate to comment, Murtha didn’t exactly cover himself in glory by turning, running, and hiding in an elevator. Real courage of conviction on display there. What a miserable douche of an excuse for a so-called leader.
I don’t know, Daveg. As far as covering himself in glory he managed to pull off a gem of the blinding fucking obvious: “This is an elevator.”
Gold, man, gold.
Why would he even stammer? Why should this be a problem for him? “I’m glad I was wrong, I admit what I said at the time was unfair, perhaps because of my rabid anti-war BDS nuttiness and general stupidity but I wish those guys luck in clearing their names” or whatever. Are the chances of him changing his mind on the mission in Iraq a bit higher now? I doubt it. :(
Better yet, Jows: “I respect the marines and their professionalism; I’ll wait for the investigations being conducted to end, and then I will comment on the case.”
Bet he wishes he could set the wayback machine and have that placed into the record.
“Murtha’s point about the incident, which, despite the crowing here on Protein W, is not over, was that these Marines were over-stressed by constant action.”
Murtha’s *point* about the incident was that *all* our Marines and Soldiers were walking the razor edge of atrocity. His point wasn’t that *these* Marines were cold blooded murderers but that they ALL were cold blooded murderers just waiting to be pushed over the edge.
This supposed *nice* version of Murtha’s intentions is far worse than saying the group of Marines invovled were criminals. The fact that I see it over and over and over where someone is saying… But Murtha wasn’t *blaming* them for it!… it just blows my mind. Oh, no. Portraying ALL of our combat troops as borderline psychotic is supporting them. Sure it is.
Exactly Mikey.
It would have been trivially easy for an experienced politician (or even a decent person) to both insist that investigations be diligent and the guilty punished while, at the same time, supporting those in uniform.
He *chose* not to.
“Bet he wishes he could set the wayback machine and have that placed into the record.”
Why? You think the people that vote for him give a shit? Unless this somehow gets some MSM traction, I really don’t think it will affect him in the long run. He has that classic appalachian constituency that will drop their pants in a heartbeat for a little pork, they don’t give a damn how corrupt he is as long as they get theirs.
Why, B Moe? Because it makes life easier, and Rep. Murtha is just beginning to learn that political combat has changed as much as much as ground combat changed between 1920 and 1940. He may be able to survive, but he will have a lot of questions to answer in the VFW and American Legion halls that he never had to answer before. They won’t be freebies anymore, and those old guys and gals vote, and they are not quiet by any means.
Way to go; kill at will. Slaughter those arabists and bring us our TROPHY!
cynn,
What on Earth are you rambling about now?
Vandalay – I think that you have been sucked into defending the indefensible. Is there any of Rep. Murtha’s actions you would disagree with? I take strong exception to what he did – were it a civilian matter, you’d have motions flying like grapeshot because Rep. Murtha had “poisoned the jury pool” or “made it impossible to get a fair trial”. Instead – we have to hear people defend him. If other commenters here are too profane or rough for your taste, that is understandable – but playing the chickenhawk card doesn’t cover you in glory either.
You know what’s funny? I just Googled the phrase “Sanick P. Dela Cruz pleads guilty” and the first hit is this very thread.
You got a link that shows a guilty plea from him, vandalay? Because if you don’t, you’re still wrong. And for the record, I didn’t find one of those. Which makes this:
…pretty goddamned funny.
Don’t mind cynn, Major John. That’s just her way of showing her love of the troops.
FREE THE DUKE 88!
“Slaughter those arabists…”
Huh? Cynn, if by that you mean slaughter those State Dept. wonks like April Glaspie, et al who have been apologists for Arab dictators for years, well…no comment. Other than that I’m guessing it’s the gin talking.
Here you go, Pablo.
Seems this fellow was given immunity, then testified for the prosecution. Poorly.
Right. Which is a far cry from a guilty plea, ain’t it?
Whenever vandalay has a chance to get around to it, I’ll be interested in learning the “facts” of the case. Meanwhile, you can find me at YouTube.
Pablo—- Its even funnier… I googled LPL Dela Cruz too.. Read this!!!!
On Tuesday, the Marine Corps announced that all charges had been dropped against Sergeant Sanick Dela Cruz. He had been charged with murder for the incident in Haditha, Iraq, on November 19, 2005.
AND OFFICIALLY —-
Sergeant Sanick P. Dela Cruz
Charges dismissed April 2, 2007
http://www.usmc.mil/lapa/Iraq/Haditha/Haditha-Preferred-Charges-061221.htm
I guess that makes vendalay eeeiiiooo OFFICIALLY a FANTABULIZING, LYING PR*&*
And that was the only part of the story the media got right.
There were reports of a plea deal, that this was terrible for the defense. Lawyers said prosecutors must have had the sergeant over a barrel. He’s saving his own skin! He’s a traitor!
And no one had the facts.
There was no deal, no pretrial
http://warchronicle.com/TheyAreNotKillers/Blog/DefendOurMarines-SgtDelaCruz.htm
Nobody has plead guilty, or been charged, to anything resembling premeditated murder as far as I can tell.
Telling the House what Murtha really is:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=506_1189332649
Bravo!
By the way Jeff, take a look at that vid in #59. Freshman congressperson relates a bit of third party advice from a fellow that happens to include Murtha’s name and the word coward and the place explodes.
HOW DARE YOU QUESTION JACK’S PATRIOTISM BY MERELY DEFINING COWARDICE?!
In defending this jackass by way of their holy cries for immediate House discipline against the lady from Ohio, these nozzles make the clear comparison between Murtha and cowards themselves! Nice job, you moonbat dipshits.
You simply can’t make Narrative control like this up.
JHoward – They are more concerned that someone might view them as cowards than they are calling somebody a murdered or a traitor.
“Cowards cut and run. Marines never do.”
If somebody is not a coward, or somebody was not advocating a cut and run policy, there would be no reason to be upset by this statement.
1) The trolls are getting boring again. This one pulled, what, two posts, and managed to drag in the “passive aggressive” thing, the chickenhawk thing, the false accusation thing, the self-superior screw-up thing, and the cut-and-run announcement all in one thread. Did it cut and paste from some other argument and just replace the key words?
2) I’m starting to think Cynn has the week off. She used to be like this mainly on weekends.
“Freshman congressperson relates a bit of third party advice from a fellow that happens to include Murtha’s name and the word coward and the place explodes.”
Being in the military to a lefty is like being an alcoholic to a teetotaler. Only former soldiers who have confessed their sins are sacrosanct, the bloodthirsty morons still serving have no voice or standing.
Not that anyone is doing this, but let’s not get political victory confused with justice. Pre-trial accusations of guilt diminish justice, they don’t add to it. Proclamations that everything was just peachy also don’t help. Let the system work, and quit kvetching.
That aside, I don’t think Murtha can possibly come out of this looking much better than pathetically craven. Even if he were right; even if the entire bunch had gotten convicted of the worst possible crimes, Murtha had absolutely no way of knowing whether they were guilty or not.
I swear, this country needs a mechanism by which Congresscritters and other holders of public office can be voted out of office by people who aren’t their constituency. There need to be standards, after all, and if Pennsylvania can’t reel in Murtha; if Alaska can’t or won’t tell Ted Stevens to piss off; if New Orleans insists on re-electing Ray Nagin, saner heads can always prevail.
There. I did all that without mentioning Marion Barry. Good on me.
Cynn has somehow convinced itself that actually arguing the issue isn’t going to work, and that (magically) firing the blunderbuss off in random directions will have some satisfying effect.
It’s a faith-based initiative, apparently.
“As for me, it’s been fun, but I think I’ll go back to Red State…”
Only if I never find out your username: we ban chickenhawkers on sight there.
John Murtha is an ex-Marine.
Oh, and vandalay, here’s you’re ass platter.
With a side of fries.
LMAO! Ass platter with a side of fries!
That’s weapons-grade snark right there!
I’m thinking that cynn’s incoherence has something to do with vandalay’s pink ass.
Slart is abslutely correct, too. No matter if the Marines were guilty or not, he shot his load before the truth came out. He’s a piece of shit no matter what.
You have no idea how much I love hearing that, or how rarely I actually do. Cash on the nightstand ok?
Slarti,
I would say the same – but your simple, elegant statement of the truth seemed obvious to me. In hindsight, of course. (As I neither made the observation, nor voiced it) You did – kudos!
Speaking of Murtha…
I’d rather send him to Iran to assure them we and the Israelis will not attack them, but here is a swell piece about him:
Digital video camera: $400. Bus fare to visit Congressional offices: $2.00.
Watching John Murtha stammer and hedge when conf…