And Ray Robison, for one, is disgusted that a news service appears to be using their resources to cover for a Democratic presidential candidate who recently accused US forces in Afghanistan of indiscriminately bombing and killing civilians.
— Mostly women and children, is my guess. Orphaned children. And their puppies. Who only have three legs. Because they lost one of their legs under the treads of a Bradley driven by some sociopathic jarhead wahoo looking to kill him some symbols of hope.
For those of you who haven’t yet come across Obama’s statement, allow me:
“We’ve got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we’re not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there,” Obama said.
Asks Robison:
To see a news writer, especially a woman chose to portray the US effort as more hideous than what the Taliban does to little school girls on purpose shows how far our media will go to prop up Democrats. Can there be any doubt they would let another 9/11 happen if it would put Dems on the White House?
Well, probably not — unless they could be sure that the attack took out a Wal-Mart where Dick Cheney happened to be gun shopping with Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity.
Then I think they’d have to really consider it.
Personally, I’m not quite as upset as is Robison — but then, I’m becoming largely immune to these kinds of conveniently timed pieces that serve, predictably, as apologias — even if they are presented as mere glosses to controversial stories they pretend to be investigating.
As others have noted, Obama’s claims are ridiculous on their face — so ridiculous, in fact, that it’s likely he merely slipped up. But what makes the AP piece so galling is that, in its haste to put together a statistical analysis — they actually call it a “fact check” in support of a gaffe — they are careful to bracket the tactics of the Taliban that precipitate civilian deaths, and conflate the intentional targeting of civilians with civilian collateral damage that is a rather tragic result of fighting an enemy with no commitment to conventions of war.
Similarly, the analysis excludes civilian casualties at the hands of the Taliban that occurred in advance of the arrival of US troops. And it does nothing to dispel the slander that the US military is simply “air-raiding villages” and killing civilians — the clear suggestion of such a charge being that these raids are indiscriminate in their targeting.
Whether or not Obama intended it to come out that way is another story entirely — one I can’t come down on just yet. I will say, however, that his other statements on foreign policy and the use of military force have been so oddly disjointed that I suspect Obama’s problem here is one of simple ignorance, exascerbated by poor rhetorical formulation.
NATO troops in Afghanistan would beg to differ. They don’t have a policy of bombing civilians, and the ground troops play a very important role in defending Afghanistan’s villages from the depravities of Taliban control. Perhaps Obama can explain his analysis of military strategy and tactics to the ground troops that get wounded in these battles — or to the families of the dead soldiers who died holding ground against the radical Islamists.
In fact, as posited by the Obama campaign, such a strategy would amount to war crimes. This sounds perilously close to the same kind of accusations that Vietnam War veterans faced when they came back from their service — that they indiscriminately wiped out villages, killing women, children, and babies. And Obama offers this as a defense of his previous pronouncement that he would invade Pakistan as a positive step, presumably as an improvement on indiscriminate attacks on villages in Afghanistan.
Earlier this morning, Zelda wrote of the recent loss of a close friend in Afghanistan.
Is Barack Obama ready to say that what she lost was a friend turned murderer? Doubtful. But it is not out of the realm of possibility that Obama let slip what he really believes to be happening, either. Which would suggest that “loving the troops” allows for slanders, so long as they take the form of glancing generalities.
Anyone care to bet when the next time we see the AP do a “fact check” on Dem charges leveled against a Republican?
At least they quit trying to hide their bias. I prefer it right out there, front and center.
“We’ve got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we’re not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there,†Obama said.
Well, it’s about time a Democrat admitted that what Bill Clinton was doing in Bosnia was ineffective.
Jenjis Con, 2007
Obama sucks. Big time.
It’s coming out. The college professor with no real world experience is stepping on his own reflexive cultural assumptions…
Okay…
Who besides me is picturing Hillary cackling and rubbing her hands in glee like the evil witch in Snow White over this news?
Even Bill, forced to sit on the floor and sand off the corns on her feet, is snickering right now.
Mr. Cap’n Ed has a quote at your link from a campaign spokesman reiterating the statement:
At one point this afternoon there was a link to this statement on Obama’s website. I can’t find it there now.
The campaign spokesman confirmed the statement after it was uttered, and in fact, the spokesman’s confirmation of it makes it sound even worse.
I would not be surprised to hear one of those “I apologize for you misunderstanding me” apologies, followed by “our spokesman did not choose his words carefully”.
Wait. I think I may be misremembering having seen it on Obama’s site. It would have been yesterday, not this afternoon, and I tracked through my history and can’t see where anyone linked to it, though I did go to Obama’s site for some odd reason. Still, like JD says, it’s been reported that his campaign guy confirmed it.
BUCK O’FAMA FOR PRESIDNET !!!
Either way, it’s the AP that’s been more egregious here. Obama will be gone soon enough, the AP is forever. Like cockroaches, they are.
Oh and that part where I accuse them of being cockroaches – that wasn’t just a suggestion I whispered.
this place does a better job I think than some others of taking Nedra down.
Nedra’s fact-checker was broke this day I guess:
I happen to know that Rove himself invented the wedding party seeking missle. I’m astonished so few of you seem aware of the WPSM.
Ok last comment – but looking over Nedra’s work, she’s not nearly in the same propaganda league as Steven Hurst or Tom Raum or Jeannine Aversa or Ron Fournier. She’s actually kind of a straight shooter, mostly. See here for an example that definitely shows she can play it straight down the middle.
This piece today doesn’t fit really. Maybe her managing editor just stuck her name on that crap.
Oh, something tells me he didn’t intend it but I think he meant it: his inner voice felt the need to be heard.
TW: sounder Ephesus
Yes, the WPSM.. An improvement on the older model Baby Milk Factory Seeking Missile (BMFSB) used in the first Gulf War.
tw: lies live-stock …. and to anybody else that will listen.
Thank you, happyfeet.
TW: “risks needs” – The AP’s journalistic risks outweigh their needs to see George Bush crushed and America defeated.
I’d think the same way if his campaign spokesman hadn’t used the same emphatic language. It wasn’t a slip. It’s his campaign’s official stance.
TW: “organized certainly” – Heh
You wingnuts are all the same. You know Obama supports our village-bombing, orphanage-strafing, puppy-raping kilbots. BTW…didja catch the broadcast tonight? Oh, no one else did either.
If that’s the same thing as the Electric Slide Seeking Missile then Rove’s a genius.
Katie –
More tits, less speaking. Works everytime.
dan – From your mouth, to God’s ears.
Why is it so many say that Obama didn’t mean what he said, or that he didn’t intend to say what he said.
Excuse me, but he said what he said. He wants to be President – is it to much to expect that he intended to say what he, in fact, said? I don’t know what he intended to say, I can’t read his mind, but I do know what he said. So – let him either live with it or say he didn’t intend to say what he said and apologize to our very brave troops for saying what he said when he didn’t intend to say what he said. ’nuff said!
I don’t think Obama’s campaign people — nor the great man himself — thought that they’d be tagged with slandering the troops, because I’m not sure they even realized the implications of what they were saying, namely, that the charges leveled were tantamount accusing US forces with what amounts to civilian murders. The indiscriminate, that is, must necessarily be assumed by the use of “just” — because the use of “just” suggests that we are doing nothing else (although, theoretically, it could be even worse: Obama could be suggesting that this is in fact our plan, to bomb civilians without care).
But when Fred Thompson’s campaign screwed up, I was willing to give them a pass. If it turns out that Obama’s campaign screwed up and emphasized a point that Obama himself wasn’t really emphasizing (and really, how is doing so NOT political suicide?), I’ll cut him some slack, as well, though in the back of my mind I’ll wonder what he really thinks.
But give me some more time to think it through. I’m just kinda thinking aloud here.
Obama, and the rest of the Dems spouting idiocy should be required to watch this every day until it’s message sinks in.
http://www.badassmarine.com/story.php?title=YouTube_-_BadAss_Marine-1
“Free
and She called…
Blacks, Whites…wait
African Americans and Caucasians, Asians, excuse me.
Vietnamese, Philipenes, Koreans and Jamaicans or
Haitans, waitin’ Hispanics y’all.
Please be paitent
Mexican, Puerto Ricans, Venezualean, Cuban, Dominican, Panamanian Democrats
I beg your pardon, you partied with the late, great Reagan?
Republican, Independent, Christian, Catholic,
Methodist, Baptist, 7th Day Adventist, 5 Percenters,
Hindu, Sunii Muslim, Brothers and Sisters who never seen the New York city
skyline when the twin towers still existed.
But still She called.
From the bowels of Ground Zero she sent this 911 distress signal.
Because She was in desperate need of a hero,
and didn’t have time to decipher what to call ’em,
so she called ’em all Her children.
The children of the stars and bars who needed to know nothing more than the fact that she called.
The fact that someone attempted to harm us
this daughter who covered us all with her loving arms.
And now these arms are sprawled across New York City streets.
A smoke filled lung, a silt covered faced,
and a solitary tear poured out of her cheek.
Her singed garments carpets Pennsylvania Avenue and the Pentagon was under her feet.
As she began to talk, she began to cough up small particles of debris
and said, “I am America, and I’m calling on the land of the free.”
So they answered.
All personal differences set to the side
because right now there was no time to decide which state building the Confederate flag should fly over,
and which trimester the embryo is considered alive,
or on our monetary units, and which God we should confide.
You see, someone attempted to choke the voice
of the one who gave us the right for choice,
and now she was callin.
And somebody had to answer.
Who was going to answer?
So they did.
Stern faces and chisled chins.
Devoted women and disciplined men,
who rose from the ashes like a pheonix
and said “don’t worry, we’ll stand in your defense.”
They tightened up their bootlaces
and said goodbye to loved ones, family and friends.
They tried to bombard them with the “hold on”, “wait-a-minute’s”, and “what-if’s”.
And “Daddy, where you goin?”.
And, “Mommy, why you leavin?”.
And they merely kissed them on their foreheads and said “Don’t worry, I have my reasons.
You see, to this country I pledged my allegience
to defend it against all enemies foreign and domestic.
So as long as I’m breathin, I’ll run though hell-fire,
meet the enemy on the front lines,
look him directly in his face,
stare directly in his eyes and scream,
“I AM AMERICA! WE WILL NOT BE TERRORIZED!
WE WILL NOT BE TERRORIZED!
I REFUSE TO BE AFRAID!
I’LL FIGHT YOU ANY COUNTRY, ANY CONTINENT, ANY TERRAIN.
I’LL FIGHT TO MY LAST BREATH!”
And if by chance death is my fate,
pin my medals upon my chest,
and throw Old Glory on my grave.
But, don’t y’all cry for me.
You see, my Father’s prepared a place.
I’ll be a part of his Holy army standing a watch at the Pearly Gates.
Because freedom was never free.
POW’s, and fallen soldiers
all paid the ultimate sacrafice
along side veterans who put themselves in harms way.
Risking their lives and limbs just to hold up democracy’s weight,
but still standing on them broken appendages anytime the National Anthem was played.
You see, these were the brave warriors that gave me the right
to say that I’m Black. Or white.
Or
African American or Caucasian,
I’m Asian, excuse me.
I’m Vietnamese, Philipene, Korean, or Jamaican.
I’m Haitan, Hispanic
Y’all, Please be paitent.
I’m Mexican, Puerto Rican, Venezualean, Cuban,
Dominican, Panamanian, Democrat
I beg your pardon, you see I partied with the late, great Reagan.
I’m Republican, Independent, Christian, Catholic,
Methodist, Baptist, 7th Day Adventist, 5 Percenters,
Hindu, Sunii Muslim,
Brothers and Sisters We’re just Americans.
So with that I say
“Thank You” to the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines,
for preserving my rights
to live and die for this life
and paying the ultimate price for me to be…FREE!”
This probably hurts his chances to be vice president more than it hurts his chances to be president. And forget about Secretary of State.
It never ceases to amaze me that the left thinks of Afghanistan as the the al-Qaeda Holy Grail, yet thinks we can somehow make ourselves safer by leaving Iraq to them.
you know what amazes me? NATO is in charge of most of Afghanistan. we’ve got that “International Coalition” they’re always carping about us not having in Iraq. and yet, they’re always complaining about us “forgetting” Afghanistan. I wish they would make up their minds.
If Obama were trying to focus on the Afghanistan theater in terms of a criticism of the resources we’ve deployed there, then Nelda has done him a damaging disservice. Instead of “fact-checking” resources in Afghanistan vs. those in Iraq, she frames the question as one of an argument over civilian deaths. U.S. vs. Taliban barbarity. This is an argument Obama sure as hell doesn’t want to have (how is doing so NOT political suicide?)… I think you were right in being cautious in your assessment, and it has been hasty to reading Nedra as “covering” for Obama. Put another way, she frames the argument by assuming the “right-wing” interpretation that what is at argument here is civilian deaths.
What she calls whispers, on a second read, are pretty clearly to be attributed to his Democratic rivals, since it contrasts with “The Republican National Committee simply repeated…”
Still, it will be interesting to see how Obama handles this, and thanks to Nedra, he may very well have to disavow something he never really said. The AP is still a collective of cockroaches though. And I should have listed Kim Gamel as one of the principle cockroaches before, but Nedra? She’s ok. For now. She’s been mostly assigned the Democratic nomination story, so maybe it’s not surprising that so much of her recent stuff is balanced, but the Durbin piece I linked above makes me think she may actually be pretty much ok.
Well this is a corner the Democrats have painted themselves into. If they are going to sit and poke fun at all the verbal gaffes that Bush makes all the time then one would assume they can speak from a level of higher verbal competency. It’s not out of the question to then expect better and call them on it when they don’t perform as advertised.
I am on the verge of hysteria here, but my friend was there for others. Always. Firstly for us here in the U.S., but also for those in Afghanistan and Iraq who had nothing. Doesn’t anyone understand? NOTHING!!!
To diminish his sacrifice is beyond the rankest, most vile form of ingratitude.
Obama never had my vote. But he has now earned my hatred.
And I’m totally crocked at this moment. I’ve had to write both my comments in Word just to be able to spellcheck them. I don’t know why it’s important to say that, but it is.
We now present you, ladies and gentleman…………General Obama S. Patton. What a great guy!
It would be a little easier to look at this as a simple miscue or a slip of the tongue had his campaign spokesman not reiterated what he said. If he gets anywhere near the nomination or the veep spot, he’s handed the GOP some great attack ad material.
I just like how he adds “which is causing enormous problems over there,” as though he needed to explain to us that carpet bombing civilians might inconvenience them somewhat. “We’re blowing up children! Oh, and that’s a bad thing!”
Obama used his “One Free Slip of the Tongue” when he said that 10,000 were dead in the Kansas tornado. It was closer to 9. He said he was tired. Campaigning is hard work.
Being POTUS is hard work too. Not much sleep. I’d hate to have him tell Sarkosy to stop being such a French faggot and help us out by launching a couple of nukes towards China. Fork in.
> Is Barack Obama ready to say that what [Zelda] lost was a
> friend turned murderer?
For the Left, put a name, a face, a connection to someone real on any soldier and they too become real people, children really, who need our protection, our luv, and a ticket home to be cared for physically and psychically. The rest? They’re just a bunch of thugs who routinely kill, maim, torture, etc, etc…
Paraphrasing the ever-so helpful Stalin: one soldier is a child, a million, a Mongol Horde.
You know, I usually just riff bullshit in the background of these discussions and leave the real discussion to the less graphically challenged voices but in this case I have to add my two cents.
These antiwar, ‘Blame-America-First’ progressive surrender monkeys proudly and openly say enough legitimately Anti-American, anti-troop, treasonous, pro-anybody but American Christian bullshit that we (meaning anyone right of the psychotic progressive fringe element) don’t have to look far for examples to take them to task on. We don’t need to stoop to taking sentences out of context and playing “gotcha!” It actually hurts our credibility by painting every commonsense critique of their words as an ad hom attack. I actually saw the technique used on Colbert the other night to ridicule the right. Colbert, a pretend conservative talk-show host freeze framed Markos ‘KOS’ in the middle of a casual wave to make it look like he was making a Nazi salute, then went on to make the ridiculous claim that “Gotcha! There’s proof that KOSites are the real Nazis”.
As for Obama, does he believe military casually and intentionally carpet bomb civilians? Maybe.. Did he make a Freudian slip and say so? Possibly.. but did he actually intend that to be taken from his statement.. ? Probably not..
…but as Sean so adroitly points out, a great soundbite loop to pullout if he gets too close to the real nomination.
tw: random music … Yeah, otherwise, just random notes on a white-noise background.
I’m sure I had some righteous and stalwart comment to make about the absurdity of both of Obama’s comments but I’d rather say this.
Zelda, my heart aches for you. Hang in there.
Say, when the Messiah made his last gaffe, wasn’t the line taken by his apologists here that he wasn’t in favor of invading Pakistan, just doing air raids? That’s how I remember it. But then, I don’t get how the GOP was able to whisper and scream at the same time, so what do I know?
I think Paul gets towards the heart of this matter. Maybe at some point, people will begin to notice that other than being a fairly compelling story, Obama does not bring much heft to the table. His resume was light for even a US Senator. If you couple this comment with the one about invading our allies and talking with our enemies, it shows a fairly naive perspective not well suited for the White House.
To diminish his sacrifice is beyond the rankest, most vile form of ingratitude.
Obama never had my vote. But he has now earned my hatred.
Zelda, I can’t agree with you more. There is no excuse for this asshole’s remarks. None.
Call it a gaffe, a misstatement, whatever you will. The effect remains the same.
I have a son who just returned safely from his third tour in Iraq and a daughter still in Fallujah. To diminish their sacrifices, to equate their actions with those of the barbarians they are protecting not only us, but the people of Iraq, Afghanistan, hell, the whole damned WORLD against! – is disgusting.
OK, so we’ve been killing civilians and air raiding villages. But we’ve only managed to kill 286 in year? Those F16’s must be dropping some very small bombs.
Shawn’s Law: a meteoric rise must be met with a meteoric fall.
Zelda, you have my condolences.
So level with us, Jeff. Your really covering for Obama because you realize that if this turns into a serious right-wing blogosphere feeding frenzy and he becomes marginalized and drops out, then Hillary will no longer be in Democratic primary race to the left mode and can start acting like a grown-up, right? Brilliant!
Of course Nedra misses the mark by trying to “fact check” Obama’a statement with a contrived and unsourced calculus. How many civilians have been killed in either remote Afgan villages or outposts in the Waziristans by the Taliban in support of their middle ages Sha’ria law? It’s not like we don’t have any historical context for this question.
As Jeff points out the use of the word “just” contains an entire potential stew if we are to divine the intent of the speaker. Here’s another example just this morning (I have no links as I heard it on Philly newsradio as a soundclip.) I’m paraphrasing here but PA Dem Senator Bob Casey (the guy who buried Santorum and the only Dem Senator openly opposed to abortion,) having just returned from an Iraq fact finding trip, gave up a sound bite that was to the effect that the Maliki govenment isn’t demonstrating any urgency towards achieving the necessary political goals.
I’m sure of the word any in that context even if I haven’t quoted him word for word. What are we to make of this?
First: The use of that word does not reflect the truth in any manner, shape or form. Has he used “enough” or “sufficient” he would have been closer to the political reality in Iraq and I would be in complete agreement with him.
Second: Why use the word? Well, maybe he misspoke out of some sense of frustration. However if the use was intentional then he is either delibrately coloring his assessment to meet a pre-conceived position or he an unserious hack who’s lacking in critical thinking skills.
There are those out there who will consider this nitpicking but add up Obama and Casey and multiply by Jamil and STB and AP and Reuters and the NYT and, voila, you have a trend.
Seriously!
Then again, the difference between limiting ourselves to airstrikes and having troops on the ground is the difference between Clinton’s Iraq policy and Bush’s Iraq policy. So maybe we should be thanking Obama for the endorsement.
*I’ll cut him some slack, as well,*
Sure but a. I shouldn’t have to interpret the policy position of a presidential candidate and edit it inmy own head so it doesn’t sound traitorous. b. it comes on the heels of last week’s idiotic comment about Pakistan- sure, lets attack one of the few muslim nations providing at least some assistance in the war on terror.
Obama is not ready for prime time. He’s certainly not ready to get anywhere near chief executive. When it comes down to it, Obama’s a viable candidate because he’s black and, say it with me… articulate.
What’s new about this kind of thing? It’s just an extension of a previously existing condition.
Ha, Paul, true enough!
What really bugs me about Obama’s statement is the cartoon quality of the thinking. Beyond the smear of the military mission in Afganistan (which, being a NATO enterprise, libels all of the members of the blessed coalition) Obama’s not thinking of the real military consequences of his statement. Put more troops on the ground in those remote village and limit air strikes, thus limiting air cover! I’m not a military guy but I think I can do that equation.
More troops on the ground + Less air cover to even further limit civilian casualties = MORE TROOP CASUALTIES!
Am I to assume that Obama’s making a case for trading civilian lives for troop lives? He’d probably scream like a banshee if asked but the calculus remains.
None of this addresses the reality that no military in the history of civilization has done more to protect civilians in wartime than our current armed forces. Which is a useless point of knowledge if someone clings to the idea that any civilian casualties constitute a mission failure.
It would appear that the good Senator is grossly ill equipped to handle foreign policy and military matters.
“Comment by NIKE IN NY on 8/15 @ 2:06 am #
We now present you, ladies and gentleman…………General Obama S. Patton. What a great guy!”
ROMMEL, YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD, I DIDN’T READ YOUR BOOK!
[…] says: (quote taken from proteinwisdom’s post yesterday on the subject) “We’ve got to get the job done there and that requires us to […]
Comments like this will not hurt him at all in the primary. In the general, it certainly will be something that he has to answer for. Right now, his audience just nods in agreement.
Matt Esq – RACIST !!!
BJ – Their political calculus does not account for trivial little matters like how they play out in the real world. It is what feels good to say, what feels right to say.
Care to post a fucking source for your acceptance of Obama’s slander, Nedra?
Zelda – FWIW, on a lighter note, Jethro is still lucky, and you are stil quite fine ;-)
Just to echo a bit of what Mr. Josh Reiter mentioned. Sure, Bush’s grammatical errors are legendary and comical, but who are the ones who always seem to be stuffing their Birkenstocks in their mouths? “Botched Joke” Kerry, “Just Air-Raid ’em, baby” Obama, “Cold Blooded Killers” Durbin, “War Is Lost” Reid, and the list goes on. Must be easy to hold themselves to self-perceived lofty standards when apparently no standards even exist.
Of course, that’s why Democrats love to chant about “hypocrisy” whenever they perceive a Republican not living up to his ideals. They shrug off Bubba Clinton abusing his staff (heh), but get their freak on when they hear that Bill Bennet likes to gamble.
Never mind that Bennet’s Catholic, and that the Catholic Church says gambling’s a problem only if it interferes with your obligations to your family…
I’m confused. BBC claimed nearly 3,800 dead Afgan mothers and babies in just two months in 2002. Yet AP has “fact checked” only 286?
Which of these respected, trustworthy, impartial observers of Truthâ„¢ should we believe?
JD – I don’t actually look so hot today. But on the upside, this is the most effective appetite suppressant I’ve ever been on. I might actually be hot for the funeral, which would be frickin awesome. He liked hot chicks.
Zelda – That would be a fine way to celebrate his life, by looking hotter than a scotch bonnet pepper ;-) We are thinking of you. Be well.
Well, a quick check of The Religion of Peace website shows the (mostly) media reporting 251 terrorist killings of civilians since 16 June 2007 alone. So much for media fact-checking in this case – 231 killings so far in all of 2007 in Afstan. They are wrong. Again.
MarkL
canberra
Questions:
1> How many of those civilians allegedly killed by our forces were being used as defilade by the Taliban at the time?
2> How many of those civilians were intentional targets of our forces?
Then, ask the same questions, replacing “our forces” with “Taliban” and vice versa.
tAs you can see, he numbers don’t tell the whole story … despite the most desperate wishes of the Best and Brightest like Obama and other critics of our current leadership …
… critics who strain at every gnat of Administration error, while swallowing the myriad camels of totalitarian death in a single, butter-covered gulp.
[…] Off The Air by G. Robert Dieckmann 5. Obama accuses troops of targeting women and children — "AP joins Obama in slander of US troops" 6. Hillary, Reid, Lantos, MoveOn.Org calls Patraeus/soldiers liars and traitors — Hillary calls […]
So now that Afghanistan’s President has demanded the US cease airstrikes, and that they’re killing too many civilians, are you going to accuse him of slandering the troops?
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American troops are air raiding villages and killing civilians. Just man up and admit it.
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