And it must be true, too, because there are bullet points involved.
Now, were I to look at this “semiotically,” I’d note that the use of bullet points makes conspicuous an absence of transitions — and it is in a narrative’s transitions where we often find clues that can lead us to determine cause and effect, establish temporality, etc.
Of course, a narrativizing of events is susceptible to rhetorical manupulations, relying as it does on the same tropes used in imaginative fiction. But so, too is a Nietzschean genealogy — which is essentially what we have here — easily manipulated: key omissions, should their be any, as well as the order in which the nodal points are listed, will influence interpretation. And huge gaps remain between the items, which we will naturally try to fill in to form the disparate elements into a narrative.
It’s just the way our mind works. Providing patches. Nature finds a way.
But that’s just a minor metahistorical point touching on the content of the form — something I throw out there just for your consideration. Or delectation, if that’s your thing.
As to the content of the post itself, which is heavy on innuendo and takes its power from its many “absenses” and confusions of fact, I’m not going to dignify any of that by disputing it (for that, see here). After all, earlier in the day, Wonkette “joked” about John Roberts’ seizure — musing on the potentiality of his death — so maybe they’re just having a traffic jones and couldn’t find anyone who on short notice was willing to ass fuck low-level DC staffer and then write about it publicly.
Still, if those of you with military combat training / experience would like to fill in the spaces between those bullet points, I invite you to do so.
(h/t Allah, via Bad Candy)
****
update: Well. Looks like Ace and I came to approximately the same conclusion nearly simultaneously.
But while I was jabbering about semiotics, he had the good sense not to link the original post and send traffic Wonkette’s way.
But what the hell. Ken Layne once signed a novel for me, so I figure I owe him.
Re Wonkette’s post and the comments: “I have come to doubt that many of them have souls.”
It’s hard to take, realizing that kind of crap barely fazes me anymore.
Anybody know where Ted Rall was that day?
I was just thinking pretty much the same thing about the Scott Thomas thing. Kooky.
These people are simply demented.
tw: “swallowing such”
“Still, if those of you with military combat training / experience would like to fill in the spaces between those bullet points, I invite you to do so.”
This thread covers it pretty well. The disciplinary actions taken support the contention made.
As for Tilman, there’s not a day goes by that I don’t miss him, but I’m just trying to soldier on. It’s what he would have wanted.
(Ex-Special Forces NCO)
Just malicious crap meant to push people’s buttons and direct traffic to the site. Not worth disputing. Not worth getting pissed off over… Just crap from someone that cant even fathom what drove Tillmann to choose service to his country over a fat NFL paycheck in the first place..
Heh. Like I said in the comment thread Rick linked to… people who will believe that 9-11 was an inside job will believe *anything*. Nevermind that the supposed motivation for killing Tillman is utterly contrary to any reasonable result of killing Tillman.
His brother (from what I’ve read) was in the group that shot at Tillman’s group. Someone would have to be a Truther to think that anyone with enough smarts to not need a diaper wouldn’t realize that not only would Tillman’s death create a firestorm of publicity but that with a family member as witness to it, there would never be any doubt as to what happened. (Those who lied about friendly fire had to have known that the *family* would know the truth, but maybe they thought the family would be satisfied to have the truth and let the military have its face-saving lie.)
As a plot to shut someone up it tanks.
Aliens. Gotta be aliens. I mean DON’T YOU GET IT MANNN?????!!?!?!?? THE BUSH CONSPIRACY IS WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO BELIEVE!!!
Then when we least expect it, BAM!!!- sex slaves on mars.
BECAUSE OF THE BARBARELLA!!!
Captcha gave me “spurned asylum” for my TW’s, which only further proves my case.
At least Gannon got the high level ass or what have you.
Weird? Recaptcha = most submissive
Hey, I just wasted half the week debating a 9/11 truther on Patterico. These people are really nuttier than a decade old fruitcake, and as welcome as a gift.
Are folks around here late night shots types?
Back, and to the left. Back, and to the left. Back, and to the left. Back, and to the…
I had a conspiracy nut as an APUSH teacher ages and ages ago, so we got thoroughly indoctrinated in how to STICK IT TO THE MAN!! by uncovering the government’s secret perfidies. Real sweet guy in person, though; his wife divorced him and he sorta dropped off the map after making sure we all aced our AP tests, which saddens me.
Anyhow. I imagine these are just the people to be forcing a malevolent interpretation on things, given they can’t ever seem to do anything without intending it to screw their enemies to the wall.
Yes, let’s all ride the Godbags for being uncharitable when they still act out the “love your enemies” bit.
Now that I’ve thoroughly depressed myself, I’m going to play with my cat.
My dad told a story. They were at the range, which had moving and pop-up targets. The soldiers were getting ready, each shooter having another soldier watching. The ready calls were being given when a figure popped up and went along the range. It was another soldier. My dad pushed down the rifle of the guy he was with yelling “Don’t shoot” as others did the same. Along the range others did the same. Some dummy was going to get a smoke from another guy in another target pit.
He said that if anyone had fired there would have been mnay others firing in reaction resulting in one dead soldier.
The point is that in a fire-fight bullets can go the wrong way; people can get confused and disoriented as to where they are and where the friendlies are, even well-trained soldiers such as Rangers. Someone calls “There they are!” and the reaction is to turn and shoot there, even if the brain is trying to sort out the signals that say this is not the enemy. Those USS Enterprise SBDs that arrived at Pearl Harbor during the attack weren’t spared the anti-aircraft fire because they were painted blue and had US identification emblems (why do you think the red dot was taken out of the white star?).
Bad things can happen in war without picking a conspiracy theory based on implausible orders to a military unit to kill one of its own in a real firefight.
Wait, Wonkette is just a silly website and you shouldn’t take them seriously, like when they’re pining for the death of John Roberts.
Totally kidding, you see! Nothing to see here.
The corollary of this, of course, is that Wonkette’s readers are incapable of differentiating between logic and nonsense; they’re putty in the hands of any sophist who strolls along–that’s the frightening thing. No wonder Bill Clinton’s always laughing: the kind of voter he cultivates is, literally, an idiot.
Obviously this means Tillman is still alive. Because if he was dead, murdered by his own government, we would never have known about his anti-war stance. The one that he was murdered in order to cover up.
I’m trying to picture a Ranger being told to kill another Ranger. One in his unit, no less.
Not focusing.
“Not focusing.”
That’s easy to fix.
1) Find an immovable object at head height
2) Slam your head into it with full force
3) Repeat until
a) Tilman conspiracy makes sense or
b) loss of consciousness
*CAUTION* This method may well drop your IQ below 90 – don’t worry, you’ll still be in the top 1% among those who do believe.
It’s not like Tillman’s own mother didn’t plant a sign reading “please exploit my rotting corpse” on Tillman’s grave. It’s not like that at all.
This is a truly disgusting spectacle being led by the likes of Olberdouche and the KosKiddies. Their perfidy knows no bounds.
See, I made a mistake. That mistake was: that Wonkette was relatively sane, and that all of that crapola came from her link to Raimondo, who for the most part isn’t.
Oops. Tell me Wonkette hasn’t gone intellectually tits-up, so to speak.
Wow. They really make a convincing case, there, don’t they?
Except for one thing…
If you’re the CiC of the most powerful military in the world and you want to off one particular soldier because he might Tell The Truth, there are better ways to go about it than to order the men to Wait Until There Is No Enemy Fire, shoot him thrice in the forehead at close range, then hope that nobody notices.
If Bush can trick the whole US legislature to approve a war based on lies, don’t you think he can get one guy killed in a War Zone without leaving a trail? Couldn’t he bribe a random Afghani to do it with a non-US weapon?
::crossposted at AoSHQ::
Oh, fuck. Ken Layne? He used to be a reasonable guy.
I’m guessing bad acid, or something.
dicentra – I always have a hard time figuring out whether the Left believes President Bush to be the most dumberest person ever to be President, or some wicked evil genius, able to make those oh-so-brilliant Congresscritters bend to his will at will. The Left has no problem arguing both of these positions simultaneously, and their heads never blow to pieces? How do they manage that?
Um People – Wonkette was one of the lefty blogs who bought the Rove/Email/Coptix/Sleestak hoax hook, line and sinker – they not only had no clue they got in a near orgasmic state over uncovering the nefarious email plot.
In otherwords – Wonkette’s are teh stoopid and gulliable.
There comes a time when one must let an idiot, or given set of idiots, clearance to land as they see fit–five hundred yards beyond the runway and into an adjoining gas station to use a recent analogy.
Here’s an idea–I vote that Olbermann, whoever the dolt is running Wonkette, and two or three representative Kostards float this idea in person to some Rangers. Now THAT would be fun.
They would never do that, wishbone, as they would never allow themselves to speak to someone in the military not named Beauchamp. They would also be quite circumspect about sitting in the same room as some uneducated person who Bush’s economy had hit so hard that they had to join the military, as they had no other choices in life, and just so happened to be automotons programmed to kill at the whim of the Chimperor.
Does the left want to elevate Tillman as an anti-war hero, or are they just giddy about corrupting the idea of a Pat Tillman? Or is that the wrong question?
Good info and links here: http://tinyurl.com/2aqgxg
Almost everything the AP, Wonkette, and the rest of the shit-weasels are reporting is wrong. It wasn’t M16 fire, it wasn’t close range, there were enemy combatants engaged, and it was reported as a friendly fire accident and an investigation started within hours.
How far are these bastards going to go before someone starts holding them accountable? George Bush’s complete and utter inability to defend this country in any kind of even semi-articulate manner against the most ridiculous and outrageous charges is almost as loathsome to me as the vilest moonbats. At least they are fucking trying. I am starting to agree with them that he is the sorriest President ever, just for different reasons. This shit is absurd.
B Moe – I said something similar to that last week. If the Administration does not plan to defend itself, how much longer t
do they think that others will defend them?
There is, of course, no longer A Wonkette. The person who originally created the role has been replaced by a team of (male) authors. Which is kinda creepy, if you remember how Wonkette made her name.
Under modern rules, the pre-existence of a military investigation is not sufficient to prevent the accusations of a cover-up. Abu Ghraib was announced in a daily press briefing months before the defense lawyers slipped whats-his-name the photos and he passed them along to Mary Mapes — but that didn’t stop the ‘tards from declaring there to be a cover-up.
Hell, they gave the highest-ranking officer involved a freaking speaking career out of her incompetence. That tells me all I need to know about how much they really care about what happened at Abu Ghraib — it’s only useful to them as a political weapon.
I used to be at the point where their inanity could no longer surprise me. But, I’ll be damned if they have not gone and raised the bar on me.
Rob C – If I remember correctly, Wonkette made her name by telling of her drunken exploits on the DC cocktail circuit, and then really became well known when she ran with the stories about the Congressional staffer who was ass fucking the better part of Capitol hill.
So do the Wonkette authors name names or can I just assume folks over there are breaking their legs making such jumps to conclusions?
Oooh, maybe if I went over and skimmed it…
These reactionary leftist fucks aren’t worthy to lick my son Matt the Marine’s combat boots clean.
Thanks for the linky Jeff! I do have to make a correction, Bryan wrote that piece, not Allah, unless Allah sent it to you.
I just went to Wonkette, and figured I would go through their article, in its natural environment, to see how it played. The comments there are truly amazing, if not downright sickening. They truly believe this shit, with every fiber of their being.
I hadn’t even looked at comments, didn’t have a strong desire to delve in the fever swamps.
By the way Goldstein, your Paleocon versus liberal hipster douche bit on Vent was great!
Bad Candy – I took one for the team. Picture the Truthers sitting around smoking chronic from a hookah, talking of impending black helicopters, squelching of dissent, etc …
Yeah, Allah sent me the link. I didn’t see that Hot Air had a piece up.
Oh, okay, I know you Ace and Allah all know each other, so I figured it was a coin toss on where you got it. Again, thanks for the link. I’ve gotta add you to my blogroll. I’ve been super lazy about linking all the good blogs.
Don’t forget the other emerging meme here – that the Scott Thomas Beauchamp affair is a Rovian plot to divert attention from the revelations about Tillman’s death.
Two (two!) Trutherisms in one.
Did Ken Layne by any chance sign that novel “Thanks for reading. Best wishes –Napoleon Bonaparte”? Can’t help wondering.
I have to agree what Jeff wrote and with the sentiments expressed in the comments. I say fuck the shameless ghouls who would exploit Tillman’s death for cheap partisan political ‘gotcha’ points and who couldn’t buy a clue about the motivation of someone like Tillman.
But the fact is that the Army did screw up the way they handled Tillman’s death, with his family and with the public. They did damage their credibility. To their credit, they dealt with it.
However, the one thing that I really dislike about the way the Army handled the follow up was this, (from an article on Drudge)
“Geren said he has directed a review panel of four-star generals to decide whether Kensinger, a three-star, should have his rank reduced. If Kensinger is demoted to major general, his monthly retirement pay of $9,400 would be cut by about $900, according to Army officials.”
$9,400.00/mo. totals to $112,800.00/yr. By reducing Kensinger’s pay by $900.00/mo he looses a whopping $10,800.00/yr and his retirement salary dips to $102,000.00/yr. Big deal. Some censure that is. I’m not saying let’s take this guy’s retirement away, but the Army’s investigation pinned responsibility on him and they could have put more sting into it.
Shit.. The idiots have a ‘wound pattern analysis’ conversation going over there… They sound like a bunch of Jonbenet websleuths.. The consensus appears to be that since Tillman took 3 headshots they must have been administered as a coup de grace by Blackwater contractors**… I hope the writers of The Killpoint are getting these plot twists down..
** Obvious suspects since they’ve been responsible such nefarious acts as using their own MH-6 Little Bird to rescue wounded marines when the Army’s own Blackhawks couldn’t get in.. The evil bastards.
tw: couch refusal… The extent of The Truther’s military experience.
Tim P – I do not see where anybody, at least around here, has argued that the Army handled things well. It is fairly apparent that they handled it quite badly.
Ouroboros – The depths of their depravity have yet to be reached.
Outright accusations of murder are clearly over the top. Murky conspiracy theories usually have at least one inexplicable factor that drives them, and in this case it is the coverup. Lt. Gen. Philip Kensinger was censured for callously misleading the Tillman family, even after, as was stated above, friendly fire was immediately determined. So Tillman’s bravery and sacrifice was milked for all that cynical military hacks could use it for, all the while jacking his family.
I dare you to tell me that Kevin Tillman is full of shit in “After Pat’s Birthday.” I dare you to make his family into some kind of caricature like Cindy Sheehan. Go on, do it.
He may or may not have been murdered; I don’t know, but I doubt it. I would think that those of you who have also served with honor would object to such shameful and opportunistic treatment of one of your own. I understand the “shit happens” Rumsfeldian attitude toward life in general and war in particular, but that doesn’t make it acceptable. I expect better conduct from our military; I hope the slapdash attitude of this administration hasn’t infested them as well.
cynn – Quit drinking.
We are not going after his brother or his family. We are pointing out that the fuck-tards at the various sites that are promoting this assassination theory are just that, fuck-tards.
Nobody is arguing that this was handled well by the military. Nobody. But that is a far stretch from murdered by the people in his own unit, or by the people in the vehicle that his brother was traveling in. Good gawd, are you that dense?
Remember when they were deconstructing the Cheney hunting
accidentmurder attempt via moron ballistics? Good, good times.Cynn, you’re doing a fine job wrassling that strawman to the ground. Now deliver the death blow!
Bingo…waiting for the pattern analysis u-tube to pop on Andrew Sullivan any minute now, with “just airing” caption or whatever stupid thing he always says.
Three bullet holes in close proximity to the forehead, you say? That rules out Russian roulette, for the gun is always pointed at the temple if the game is played properly.
Am I the only one here who has never lost at Russian tic-tac-toe? Case closed.
Ooooh, Mr. Big Words!
On a more serious note, I’m guessing Jeff missed the story of Ken Layne threatening to sue a blogger for daring to point out the frequency with which anti-Semitic “humor” turns up at Wonkette (and other Gawker Media sites).
I was north of where Tillman was – they brought him back through our base, the OCF (“Other Coalition Forces” – ie. Rangers) had a fallen comrade ceremony that we stayed the heck away from as it was their soldier, not for us to intrude – and they flew him home. We (my TF) knew it was friendly fire within 18 hours of the occurrence. I think some of the original delay was “oh @#$% look what we did” and the normal “we can’t say anyhting until the investigation is completed” stuff. But then OCF/the Rangers did their #$%& tap dance and screwed up. Badly. I understand being a close knit community and worrying about image – but they should have just told the family what happened and investigated and released the findings AFTER telling the Tillman family. Poorly handled from Day 1.
And a side-effect of all this is the Wonkies rolling around in it like my old dog used to roll in feces. They both have the same grin when they stand up afterwards.
JD — You can shut up at any time. How come I get a new moralist every day? Are you guys tag-teaming? What’s next, IUD patrol?
Were you there? Are you a forensic analyst? Do you truly know what happened?
I acknowlege that you are not “going after” the family. But I am trying to head that off at the pass, because that’s what rights seem to do in a corner.
Nor am I defending the ghouls at Wonko. Equally bad, as it were.
“that’s what rights seem to do in a corner.”
Cynn, that’s (to put it mildly) a less than fair characterization, and hardly what one would expect from you.
The major problem with your reasoning, cynn, is that the “coverup” is not in any way “inexplicable.” It’s easily and clearly the result of bad decisions by several people in a chain of command to try to avoid the public relations nightmare of explaining how a soldier with celebrity status got killed by friendly fire.
This was *never* going to be hidden from the family. Tillman’s brother, if he was actually there as I think he was, or if he wasn’t there, was near enough, organizationally at the very least, that there was no chance of the family not knowing eventually.
Obviously trying to claim that the hero died heroically being heroic fighting the taliban backfired and the public relations nightmare was far far worse than it would have been if they’d just told the truth. Some pretty high ranked guys, those that made the decision to lie about it being friendly fire, lost their careers.
And should anyone figure that the fact of an *investigation* means that someone thought something was fishy… any action will have an after action report and most certainly any friendly fire event will have a very thorough investigation if for no other reason than to figure out how exactly this happened so that it can be incorporated into training so maybe it won’t happen again.
“implicitly tail”
And might I mention again that one other person was killed and two US soldiers were wounded.
For any real “coverup” a very lot of men who were involved would have to keep quiet about it. And that, again, is in the realm of Truther reality where hordes of perfectly loyal minions never talk.
synova – You, dutifully, apply Occam’s Razor, and come to a logical and obviously thought ought position. The Left takes the same set of facts, applies that set to the prevailing narrative, and comes up with Bush ordered the assassination of Tillman because he was going to meet with Chomsky and voting for Kerry. It seems to me to be far more healthy to follow Occam’s lead.
“I dare you to tell me that Kevin Tillman is full of shit in “After Pat’s Birthday.â€Â
Are you talking about this?
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1020-23.htm
If so, then yeah, I think he is full of shit. And I don’t see what that has to do with his brother’s death at all, other than possibly being fueled by grief. He has my sympathies and I deeply appreciate his serving and sacrifice, but that screed is pure, undiluted anti-war boilerplate bullshit.
I’m getting a bit tired of cynn’s nightly generalizations about how it’s the “right” that generalizes.
But rather than let it bother me, I’m just going to smoke some weed and watch that flick about the two asian dudes at White Castle.
I concede all you say, synova, and defer to Major John. My huge concern is that the military is becoming as furtive as its upper civilian echelons. Then we’re screwed, because we truly have no national defense.
Kat from the Middle Ground, thanks for the link. I would like to add as someone has already pointed to, this link regarding trajectory and additional parts of the story. Trajectory
The additional points are that there were over 40 rounds placed into Tillman’s position by three shooters. His probable position at the time that he was killed and more detail on what was happening. And, as noted, everyone involved fessed up to the situation immediately.
I am somewhere in the 600 page range of reading the reports.
Additional comments on “where things went wrong”. Yes, multiple people at the TOC were aware that Tillman was dead. As Maj. John notes, it was all over the base in short order even though there were only a few people in the TOC at the time that the call came in. But, as everyone knows, even in an OPSEC environment, people blab. At that time, TOC did not know it was fratricide. As far as they knew, 2nd Platoon had just had an intense fire fight with the enemy and Tillman was killed. They had not have an idea that it was fratricide. That report was made the next morning. At the same time, the Plt Leader and his radioman had been medevac’d and were at the CSH (combat surgical hospital) on the base. The PLT leader knew little after he had been injured. The command placed security on these two men. The PLT leader was told that Tillman was dead and that there was media on the base. The command did not want information to get out before they had a chance to contact the family and make the initial press release. However, that time was made extremely limited by the fact that everyone knew, Tillman was famous and the press was busy doing what they do, hunting down the story.
The part where Tillman was deemed to be killed “charging up a hill” was not a complete fabrication, but incomplete information. From reviewing the interviews with the PLT Leader, his last conversation with Tillman was Tillman requesting that he be able to drop his body armor and do what Rangers do: charge the ridge where the enemy was. However, his Platoon Sgt intercepted him and told him “no” he was not to drop his body armor. Further, that they were attempting to call in close air support and that Tillman was to go no further than the spur (where he eventually died) to keep him out of range of the potential blast.
However, I am certain when the PLT leader was debriefed back at the rear, not knowing where Tillman was or how he was shot, he provided the information that he knew up until the time he was out of commission. I believe that is the reason the first reports of dying “charging the enemy” came about.
What I find interesting is how the media down plays their role in this situation. The army, for once, was trying to get out ahead of press cycle. Something we complain about but which they are proved to be correct in this instance that it is better to release the correct information. People are apt to forgive reporters for their mistakes (except us), but, as noted, they are not very forgiving to the military.
– Lets review. A show of hands from everyone that believes the Left doesn’t desperately need a disaster in Iraq to have a chance in hell in 2008. Any takers?
– The demonization campaign, picking through every scrap of news each day, hoping to find some controversial event like Tillman or Abu Graibe that can be turned into a media circus, has been the some total of the Lefts waking moments, since sometime just after 9/11.
– Te Left knows that its a done deal that the party in office maintains in any time of war. The prospects of a 20 or 30 years war with Islam was unimaginably bad for their political futures. This is the total mind set in everything they’ve done, and will continue to do.
-The past congressional change resulted in what? The moderates moved into their offices, handed the majority to the far left driven fringe, and the Schumer/Pelosi/Reid/Kennedy conspiracy train has been OCD targeting wall to wall witch hunt investigations ever since. Never mind that the majority of “info, details, and issues”, are already completely disclosed to the proper members of the oversight committee’s. the idea is to keep up a constant din of “something very wrong is always going on in the Bush administration”. Its the height of misrepresentation, not representation, and much of what these committe’s are yapping for is unconstitutional, things even a wuss like Bush can easily fend off. The Left does get the Bush-bad press they’re after out of it, but what of the jobs they were sent there to do in the first place?
– The amount of legislation thats been passed during this period is shamefull. Gonzoles is the deer in the headlights. or Eove, or Cheney, or whomever the Dems can zero in on, to keep the party going. They’ve been at the Bush bashing lunacy for so long, I doubt they could stop now if they wanted to. The far Left has envagled, and bullied, and threatened them into a box they can’t now escape in time for the elections. It sets whoever the Dem candidate is, up for a real fucked up situation.
– One of their own finally said it today in public. Iraq has to be a loser for them to have any chance.
– When Tillman was just another potential “hero”, Kos “didn’t give a fuck”, which translated means Tillman was no good to them, and in fact was bad news. Now they see a way to mine some additional military demonizing, so they pile on with the conspiracy theory , chumming the outright lunitics that populate the far Lefts ranks, knowing they are like children with the perspective of a tangerene, but the snarling vicious intensity of a junk yard rat.
– And through it all, not one of the Lefts fuckhead leaders cares one wit. If its a possible way to power, they’ll do it, without hesitation. Nothing is out of bounds. Sort of a modern version of “absolute hedonism corrupts absolutely”.
– The really bad news for the Left is the signs of very definate improvements in the Iraqui theater. The Lefts agenda, and actions, have become so transparent, that we will probably witness even more desperatation from the cult of truthiness, as the suicide bombing wanes, and to an even greater extent, if Iraq continues to settle down.
– The thing I’m having a hard time understanding is what possible platform the Dems hope to run on in the 2008 cycle. The corruption meme had a little steam until Harry’s problems, and Jeffersonian frozen money blew that in the ass. What else have they got?
– We want abortion on DEMAND.
– Raising taxes always makes the economy hum.
– Open borders, because we should take in the world.
– The WOT is just a law enforcement issue. We deserve to ;pse in Iraq.
– The Islamofacists are sweet, badly misunderstood people.
– We just need to negotiate with Iran. We don’t negotiate enough. they just want Nuclear for peaceful use’s.
– Everything bad in the world is America’s fault.
– Socialized medicine has worked so perfectly in other countries, its the only answer.
– Then just when you think they’ve run out of “teh stupid”, Sharpton goes on O’Reilly and is asked. “If Dic is being unfairly treated by the press in a rush to judgement, what about the press, and your own comments, all during the Duke case. Why didn’t the NAACP come to their defense in the same way they’re doing for Dic? (Ed – Or him either for that matter.)
– His answer: quote. “The NAACP did come to the Duke players defense, many times. The Media just didn’t cover it. Its the Media’s fault”. unquote.
– Its moments like that where the clouds should part, and G_d should say, in an absolutely deafening roar so that every living thing on earth would hear it: “BULLSHIT!”
Karl —
Well see, that explains why Layne signed his novel, “to the filthy Heeb.”
I thought he was just being cute.
TW: Act Ordinary. Meh. They’ll still find us. It’s the nose.
I dare you to tell me that Kevin Tillman, who was part of Serial 2 that was ambushed and mistakenly fired on Serial 1, killing Pat Tillman, in the near dark of twilight, thinking they were enemy forces, was actually part of an elaborate plot to kill his own brother and has kept his knowledge of the assassination orders from Bushco a secret all this time…
Go on, do it..
The anti-war people really know no lower limit to how far they’ll stoop in their cheap shots at their betters…
Here’s a pretty good narrative as to what happened that night in the Washington Post for anyone that’s interested..
This thing goes well beyond Wonkette, it is now fully enshrined in Wikipedia, with suitable references from multiple diverse publications (Forbes, E&P, etc) that are all actually rehashings of the same poorly sourced and poorly substantiated claims from the AP, and all within the last few days.
Why it’s almost as if history is being re-written right in front of our eyes. Goebbels would be impressed.
O.K., Jeff, I’ll go away for awhile — evenings are the only time I have to myself, since as a dronette only I know how to fix meals, wash dishes, and do laundry. Whew! It’s good to be appreciated! Sorry to rag on the “right” when the “left” is equally one-sided. Feminists! Keep that Midol bottle coming around!
JD you said, “I do not see where anybody, at least around here, has argued that the Army handled things well.”
I wasn’t arguing that point either, since you can’t seem to figure that out. That obvious enough for you? Quit hyperventilating and read the WORDS.
I think Major John says it better, “- but they should have just told the family what happened and investigated and released the findings AFTER telling the Tillman family. Poorly handled from Day 1.”
ON Kevin tillman, he was with the same Platoon as his brother and he was at the same firefight. He was in serial 2, the group that was being ambushed in the canyon. He was in the last HMMVW. His vehicle was the last to clear the canyon. They made it out after the shooting had stopped.
However, an interesting fact that is slightly overlooked in all the hoopla about Kevin was that he was firing the .50 on that vehicle. He was firing at “known or suspected” enemy positions on the ridge above the canyon. When Pat Tillman’s body was at the ME in Dover, a special agent called the doctor regarding Tillman’s wounds. Specifically, could it have been made by a .50 caliber. At the scene of Tillman’s death, a spent .50 caliber round had been found. Apparently, Tillman’s [redacted] called the SA, having knowledge of fire arms and distances, wondering if the wounds were from a .50. The ME, fortunately, was able to determine that the wounds were made by a 5.56mm or 7.62mm.
I believe that Kevin Tillman was afraid that, during the “suppressive fire”, he may have been one of the shooters. -keep in mind that this portion was redacted and the inference is simply made by the interviews and subsequent identification of people’s positions in the vehicle.
In regards to what Kevin Tillman knew at the time, when he came out of the canyon, all he knew was there was casualties. The Platoon Sgt was organizing security and sent Kevin to pull security on the vehicles in serial 2. He then sent another man to be with him. that man told Kevin that Pat was dead. That man did not know that it was fratricide because he had been back with serial 1s vehicles. all he knew was that the Platoon Sgt told him that Pat was dead.
They sent Kevin back with the bodies. The casualty notification officer told Kevin at the base before Pat’s body and Kevin were sent home, that Pat was killed by three bullet wounds to the head.
I am sure that Kevin, like some of the others, even milbloggers, wondered exactly how that could happen. he was not told at that time about the other injuries or strikes on his weapon, gear and body armor. He did not know about the three shooters firing on Tillman’s position. Largely because the TOC did not know it was fratricide at that point. He went home with Pat Tillman’s body.
and then the information loop closed up.
My huge concern is that the military is becoming as furtive as its upper civilian echelons.
Maybe it’s just me, but the “secretive White House” meme that the Left passes around seems an awful lot like “lack of evidence = proof!” that something nefarious is going on.
Look, there are just too many people in the military  and too many people milling around the White House  for too many secrets to be kept. “Furtive” is pretty much a synonym for keeping your head down or engaging in the CYA shuffle or Not Feeling Like Talking To A Rabid Pack Of Reporters.
Wake me when you have actual evidence of perfidy.
Tim P – I think we were speaking past each other. Hyperventialating? My apologies.
Ouroboros – That is one of the glaring ommisions of the grand conspiracy theory that is conveniently left out, as it would throw quite a monkey wrench in the machinations required to make this conspiracy work.
Thomas D – Wikipedia’s main usefulness, in my experience, is that it allows one the opportunity to see history re-written in real time.
Yes, but it wouldn’t be nearly as romantic. Why believe that’s all there is to that unfortunate incident when you could instead pretend it was an evil Bush/Rovian plot to have Tillman murdered? Or why believe the moon landings were real when it’s much more fun to believe that it was all an ingenious ruse?
I won’t even mention 9/11, Bohemian Grove, the CIA using microwaves to make us stupid, or how the fluoride in the water is there to drive us all slowly crazy.
Going after Tillman’s family is not without foundation. I don’t have a lot of energy for it, but also maybe Pat was the one with the character in the family. I mean, ick.
GO TEAM TILLMAN!!
I just miss him so much.
My huge concern is that the military is becoming as furtive as its upper civilian echelons. Then we’re screwed, because we truly have no national defense.
Since your premise is flawed, I guess you can stop worrying.
I agree with what he, he, he, he and he said, not to mention what Kat said too.
I agree with thor.
Correct the record please…it was not Kevin Tillman on the .50 who was concerned he had fired into Tillman’s position. It was another member of the platoon who was on the .50 and had spoken to the Platoon Sgt and said he thought he might have fire into Tillman’s position. That is why Tillman’s brother contacted the special agent about the .50 cal being the weapon.
Just to keep the rumors from starting. It was Tillman’s brother that was asking. he wasn’t the .50 cal gunner though.
On the way into work this morning, I had this thought: maybe it’s not that Layne has gone genuinely crazy; maybe it’s that he’s deliberately gone crazy, with the idea that he’s going to get a book deal out of it in the end.
If not, he’s nuttier than a fruitcake made out of datura flour, pickled peyote buttons and sauteed psilocybin.
It’s not bizarre to see the military as “furtive”. If we could be honest here. It’s not suspicious, however. Besides the very real issue of Operational Security, which puts a sort of default value on simply not talking about anything at all, there is the very real Cover Your A** issue. CYA isn’t exactly approved of but it’s inescapable, particularly since a minor mistake can ruin a career.
Which means that any clueful person doesn’t automatically see some sort of directed conspiracy when actions can be easily seen as misguided a** covering.
And thank you, Kat. I can see how Kevin Tillman might have gotten out of the information (even the informal one) loop if he took his brother’s body home, which of course they would have him do.
B.B. Hunter
@ #64,
All true. The question is where and how to counter on offense because defense against the dribbling idiots wastes good pixels. Taking back 15-20 seats gained by the faux moderates would seem to be the most productive avenue. Developing a counter narrative of total legislative incompetence wouldn’t be too tough, given the Copperhead 110th’s performance to date.
It might even bit hit whoring in terms of utility.
How long until we get a treacly, synthetic Tillman euology from Silk Pony with the solemn promise that, for a mere $10 a month donation, he’ll get to the bottom of this conspiracy?
Jeffersonian, I’m actually waiting to hear Miss Edwards proclaim that, if he’s elected president, he will make Pat Tillman walk again.
More likely Edwards will repeat his performance of conduit into the afterlife.
*My huge concern is that the military is becoming as furtive as its upper civilian echelons.*
I don’t think thats too far fetched. The problem is now that instead of simply having to report to their superior officers, the military is increasingly under a very unflattering spotlight, shown on it by the mainstream media. Because the president has done such a god awful job of defending the military and their mission, officers are subjected to the same scrutiny that politicians are subjected to, typically from persons who have no clue about how the military works. One mistake, no matter how important or trivial, is blown up to epic proportions and used as a weapon against the war. The military is constantly under fire by a press looking for mistakes, looking for one more way to smear both the president and the military for their own aims.
The entire incident with Tillman was handled incredibly poorly. It is obvious that somebody in the chain of command figured they’d make lemons into lemonade by turning Tillman into a hero. It was idiotic, in this political climate, to not realize the narrative would eventually break down, causing a bigger uproar over the lies then the friendly fire. unfortunately, in this day and age, when a narrative breaks down, the left fills in the holes with whatever looks the worst for the president and the military, no matter how absurd the pegs are that the left is trying to plug into holes.
I blame Fox Mulder for all of this conspiracy crap anyway. @#$! you David Ducovney.
ThomasD: The obvious solution is to edit Wikipedia yourself.
Note the repeating of bad AP claims. Link to the actual reports and add corrections showing where AP was wrong.
The way to fix bad information there is not to complain that it exists, but to fix it.
(Now, if people keep removing links to the original source documents or otherwise restoring the broken state, then it’s time to complain about it.)
Thanks for that one Jeff. Best sustained trip award. Classic.
“If not, he’s nuttier than a fruitcake made out of datura flour, pickled peyote buttons and sauteed psilocybin.”
You say that like it is a bad thing.
Showing the Midol card already, cynn?
That’s a quick fold for you.
Kevta Fire Systems, Inc….
To some extent, I aggree with your opinion on the safety aspect. German for example shy away on the use of nuclear power and give their focus more on renewable energy under ‘fed in’system. However, safety is just a perception based on statistical fig…