Okay, here’s the deal: my wife and I spent a good deal of money on our new home, including requesting lots of “custom” features that we had to have subcontracted out through the builder (spray foam, upgraded insulation, soft close drawers and cabinets, a pocket door in the jack n’ jill bathroom to fix a design flaw in the house, plumbing for the installation of our own upgraded laundry sink, etc.) at a bit of a premium. In return, we’ve been stonewalled on a number of warranty requests, and misled about a number of other purchases. Examples:
1. We put in our contract that we wanted to close in November, and that we had until then to do so. We did this in order to get our other house fixed up and rented out. We were told that the builders would slow-walk the home, but rather than do that, they actually finished about a month earlier than their standard build time suggests — the end of August — and then told us we had to close once construction was completed. They rushed to clear the house from their books toward the end of their fiscal year. We let it go, even though it screwed up our budgeting. Thankfully, I was able to get carpet laid in our old house and do a lot of the fixes myself, and we found tenants very quickly.
2. The landscaping was done poorly by the subcontractors, who left huge, ankle-breaking, child-unfriendly chasms in the yard. We expressed concern, having two children and dogs; we never heard back about that until after I began Tweeting about our treatment yesterday. Now they say they’ll come and do the repairs in spring — when they could have just done them before the sod took root.
3. DR Horton has begun marketing some of their houses as “solar ready.” Unfortunately, what that means to their builders and what that means to their salespeople are two different things. For instance, the sales people told us that the house was equipped with a conduit that could be used to hook up solar panels, should we wish to go that route. When we did — using the ONLY SOLAR COMPANY licensed in our city, and therefore the only one that has a say in what is required for the system to be installed correctly — we were told by the installers that the conduit that was run wasn’t the correct one, and that besides, it didn’t travel anywhere near the outside breaker box, where it needs to be. Because we have a finished basement, rectifying this problem would involve tearing out lots of ceiling drywall and perhaps even joists. Rather than have Solar City do that during the install, I let them run the conduit up the side of the house — much to my wife’s dismay: we had already paid to have all of our wiring (cable, satellite) run internally to preserve the outside appearance of the house and to keep all controls in the mechanical room. Now, our meters and such for the solar system are located outside.
I alerted DR Horton about this a couple of months back. Their regional construction manager at one point even thanked me for pointing out what was a flaw in their solar set-up. Still, because the procedure to fix the problem would involve lots of renovation and lots of drywall dust in our finished basement, I pitched them a trade-off: instead of ripping out the entire ceiling, replacing the conduit with a proper conduit, and running it to the breaker box (which would involve cutting an access door into the concrete and leaving one in the basement ceiling, all of which could involve having to notch or replace joists), I asked them to serial or parallel a second 50 gallon water heater to the one we already have installed. DR Horton offers a 2-water heater setup (40 gallon) at the time of the build; we opted for a 50 gallon tank instead, and bought a second 50-gallon tank (of better quality) after market, with the plan to join the two.
As DR Horton offers this configuration in their builds — and we already have the second water heater available and in place in the mechanical room — our compromise would involve their joining the two heaters with copper pipe and expanding the HVAC vent, an installation with which they are familiar. This could probably be done for about $100-$200.
After several months — with warranty telling us this was a sales issue, and sales telling us this was a warranty issue — the request went up the chain, where the upper management of the “Denver team” for both sales and construction denied us the compromise. They also told us that the fix to the solar system is not covered under the warranty. Which is something I suppose we can find out through the consumer protection agencies or the courts.
4. On those occasions when DR Horton has honored warranty requests, some of the experiences have been good (garage door being bent); others have been poor (re-running damaged wiring for broadband, which involved cutting holes in the ceiling, during which no tarps were laid and the workers left the drywall dust all over the floor, counters, and appliances; a range-hood “fix” left us with a couple extra screws that we hope weren’t crucial to anything).
5. We had a security system and two surround sound systems installed by the same low volt company, Reliable Security, who has partnered with DR Horton — at least for our sub division. When we were being sold the integrated surround sound, we weren’t told that the subwoofers wouldn’t be integrated along with the rest of the speakers in the wall. So the $1000 or so we spent on subwoofers consisted of two Panasonic downfiring entry-grade units that you can buy on Amazon for between $90 and $150. As I already have standalone sub woofers from Outlaw Audio that are FAR BETTER than the consumer models we finally received about a month after moving in, dropped off on our porch (the second one is still not working as hooked up), I complained. Again, we felt we were misled: we were sold a built-in surround sound system, but the LF component for that system was not built in — and in fact, it’s not even an option DR Horton offers. Had we known this, I would have purchased a second pair of Outlaw subwoofers — not paid and amortized stuff I could have gotten on Amazon quicker at far less than a 400% markup. Either that, or I would have filed another custom request to have subwoofers integrated into the walls.
6. For each warranty request we file, we hear nothing back re: status, nor is there a place to check on the status of our request. The game seems to be to hope we’ll get frustrated and say screw it. On small things — like painting drywall after patchwork has been done — I am fine taking up the slack just to get things done faster. Recently, however, a settling issue over a door lintel left a dry wall crack, which in turn left the door to the master bathroom unable to latch. This is quite ordinary for the first winter in a house, so it wasn’t a big deal. Still, what IS annoying is that the drywall people are separate from the door people, and rather than coordinate the two to work on the problem simultaneously, we have to file a separate work order for the door to be fixed after the drywall is fixed. Which will drag on and on and on.
The fact of the matter is, overall we are very happy with the house. But we are getting very tired of dealing with the people who wooed us into buying deciding that once they’ve gotten the sale, they can try to run the clock out on warranty coverage.
When I began Tweeting about this, I was contacted on Twitter by a DR Horton representative who in turn contacted the “Denver team” to see what could be done for us. Today that representative wrote back to say that it is his understanding that what we want “isn’t covered under warranty.”
This is bad business, and it’s unethical, in my opinion. Their argument, that when they said “solar ready” that could conceivably mean, say, ready for a solar water heater, is absurd, and runs counter to what their salespeople were selling.
So if it’s a fight they want, it’s a fight they’ll get. The sales office is right down the street from our house. And as we work from home, I’m sure we can find the time to chat up potential buyers to let them know that the attention you get as a potential buyer is nothing like the treatment you’ll get once you’ve closed.
Too bad, too. At this point, I can’t really recommend the company — though I do love the home itself.
I’ll give DR Horton every opportunity to make this right; if they do so, I’ll be happy. It’s just a shame that I have to go through all this with them when my wife and I have been very easy-going and understanding up until now.
*****
update: DR Horton has refused to rectify the solar problem, instead referring us to their counsel.
I wonder: how many supposedly “solar” ready homes has D.R. Horton built in Colorado — or even nationally — with plastic conduit run that is not up to code for running solar power? Were I an attorney I might be interested in pursuing a class action suit…
If there are any lawyers out there who would like to take this on, send me an email.
Question: in working up the contract, who was involved on each side? It sounds like everyone wishing to go into a contract with DR Horton that isn’t standard and unamended, needs to have a lawyer sitting in throughout the sales process.
That would be a fact worth passing on to prospective homebuyers: “By the time you’ve moved into your house, you will have spent nearly as much in legal fees just protecting your rights as a homebuyer, as on getting the home built.”
Solar clothes dryer. Here’s your clothes line.
OK, I never owned a home and chances are never will (even when my MIL passes on, the property will belong to my wife). So, I refuse to sympathize for you, you crummy 1 percenter!
have a nice day :)
“By the time you’ve moved into your house, you will have spent nearly as much in legal fees just protecting your rights as a homebuyer, as on getting the home built.”
Real estate people of all types desperately do not want home buyers–whether new construction or already built–to get lawyers. Their pitch is that lawyers screw things up and are waste of money. Sadly, that’s not true. If a seller/contractor knows one has an attorney before closing, its amazing how few problems there are. “We’ll do that later” is not an option. You lose your leverage once you close and it can never be recovered.
I hope things work out for you. Your best bet now is to go to your local Better Business Bureau and/or contractors association to see if they will help.
Good luck.
And BTW, my fees were 1.5 percent of purchase price–flat fee– for representing a buyer from “contract to keys,” much less than the 7% charged by real estate brokers who are only interested in closing a sale and not interested in their clients.
If you have ever watched Mike Holmes, you begin to understand that anything to do with construction means personally hanging around while they do it or having a trusted, knowledgeable person to over-see …
(e.g. my mom on her kitchen remodel 2 years ago…she caught them cutting corners on things she & dad paid extra for. Guess they were fooled by her 80 y/o sweet smile and didn’t see the steel claws willing to come out)
and making sure to have a legal team ready to pounce at each shady action.
Why can’t they “Do it right” the first time?
It isn’t that they can’t. It’s that they rarely have to, so the incentives aren’t sufficient to ensure compliance.
Spot-on, Darleen. As Mrs. B. and I have learned from hard-won experience, Mike ‘Make It Right’ Holmes has proven his wisdom.
Smartest thing we did when we bought our house was get a lawyer we could trust who did real estate transactions all the time. It went smoothly, even when a right of way issue arose that she, the attorney, discovered.
I was there daily, Darleen. The problems we’re encountering — a nick from a drywall screw in the cable wire or perhaps a bad spool; the aftermarket installation of a solar system whose conduit was insufficient to the task, and landscaping problems (which happened when they laid sod after a rainstorm without regrading: our neighbor has the same issues) — were nothing we could have caught.
As I noted earlier, the home is for the most part very well built; not only did I inspect it daily, but I had carpenter friends, electrician friends, and custom homebuilder friends (familiar with spray foam), come in and inspect the bones with me.
Some of the subcontractors were better than others. That’s just the nature of the beast.
I did not have a lawyer but my agent was with me when we put the November codicil into the contract.
this post makes me feel very wary about ever having these DR Horton people build a home for me
open borders = shoddy work
what kind of solar infrastructure did they fail to install: hot water or electric or both?
if they are still building in the neighborhood > large sign front lawn – DR Horton Sucks.
Good for you, Jeff. I had thought as much ..
which means even with due diligence, the a**holes still try to get away with some flesh — just ounces rather than pounds.
Still stings.
Yes, two years later my mom still is annoyed that some things are still not quite right. But she is a very determined woman.
newrouter: just the conduit that went to the breaker box to hook the solar into the grid.
The problem with mass-production builders, like D.R. Horton, Pulte, KB (formerly Kaufman and Broad – yeah Eli Broad), even “high-end” builders like Toll Bros, is that they are “mass-production”. Corner-cutting, and low-bid subcontractors, is part of their business model.
Darleen,
If you have ever watched Mike Holmes, you begin to understand…
I think I should get continuing education credit for watching Mike Holmes’ shows. That guy is really on the ball.
> just the conduit that went to the breaker box to hook the solar into the grid.<
roof to basement? run conduit outside and match the color of the siding? or brick. solar sucks financially but get them to provide that option in the future. one day job.
worst case
service wire
link
run pvc 1.5″
By the way, it sounds like you did everything right, and I’m sorry to hear of the problems you’ve encountered. I finally gave up on hiring contractors for work on my house, because the only work that was done right the first time was what I did myself. More than once I heard complaints from contractors about me “micro-managing” their crews.
at this point forget about the solar> proggtard green scheme for money.
I really don’t need to hear about your personal problems with dishonest contractors or others. We all have them. Everyone has been ripped off. That’s why the slogan, “caveat emptor” is common. You are obviously wealthy enough to endure the slings and arrows of your petty trials. Eat some cheese with your whine.
I really don’t need to hear about your personal problem with hearing about people’s personal problems with dishonest contractors or others.
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guinspen –
It’s personal problems all the way down…
Angel –
Tell us who forced you to come here – was it the Tea Party? Just cough if you can’t say anything…
Angel knows what he/she/it is talking about, considering he/she/it got ripped-off in the brains department.
Angel,
I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired.
Besides, it’s Jeff’s blog, innit?
Jeff,
Rarely post here but I thought you might be interested in this if you haven’t seen it already. It’s a young boy with Downs syndrome winning his first wrestling match. Kinda brought a tear to my eye.
http://gunsandcurves.com/dylan-down-syndrome/
Awesome, midaz!
Angel — posting on blogs and social media sites tends to get companies averse to bad publicity to suddenly take an interest in your concerns. That’s not “whining.” It’s being aggressive in getting my problems solved. That you can’t see the differences speaks more to your world-weary stance as a perpetual doormat pretending to be a stoic realist than it does to any flaw in my character.
When I get fucked it’ll be because I want to.
Didn’t cost me a dime and I got a number of rebates and tax credits for it. Ordinarily I’d agree with you: it isn’t for everyone. Where I live in Colorado, though, gets over 300 days of sunshine a year and my house faces east / west, so it made sense in our specific situation. That’s different than demanding people be compelled to use it.
Also, I’ll be installing a self-sustained unit later on. My ode to preppers everywhere.
I sympathize and am humbled by the man with no feet, but I still need of a pair of shoes.
I figured, Jeff, that you hadn’t gone over to the dark [age] side, known as Environmentalism.
When the Missus and I move to New Hampshire in a few years, we plan on doing a lot of self-sustaining [if it’s not too late by then].
Gee, I was able to mock Angel before Angel posted.
You want to spend an hour or two with a local top construction firm and have them walk you through the ins and outs of this. It will probably cost you $500 or so, but it will be money well spent. Even if you can’t afford to hire them, they can coach you how to set it up right.
Add Kimball-Hill to the list of “semi-custom” = cookiecutter bullcrap home builders. They were so bad in our subdivision (8 months or so after paying them and being unable to back out), so backed up on permit clearances from the dozens of homes in various stages of construction, the city shut them down until they cleared up the backlog. No construction = no subs working, and the primary subs mostly went and found other work. Which left us with the C-team, doing drywall and painting. Which lead to a punch list that Boehner and the boys would envy for it’s length and detail.
> gets over 300 days of sunshine a year and my house faces east / west, <
have you done a cost / benefit on installing a solar system on your house?
fyi
New oil boom lurks in Denver-Julesburg Basin
peak oil news
“Drillers in Colorado are poking into a massive shale deposit… to unlock oil reserves that are so vast they would swamp OPEC.”
fyi
The Niobrara News
i look at
Marcellus Drilling News
Jeff,
Another question: To you, does “solar-ready” mean ready for solar electric generation? Or does it mean the house will be ready for solar water-heating?
Because the conduit requirements for both are very, very different. One requires a single grey PVC conduit sized for a definite bundle of wires bringing DC power from the PV array to the charge controller in the utility room. The other system requires two pipes from the roof to the utility room, both constructed to conduct pressurized hot water.
Or maybe to you “solar-ready” means the house is built to accept both systems.
Is there any text defining the term in the contract’s fine print?
-S
Jeff, does this mean you’ll be able to run your electric reloading press when the grid goes down?
I’m beginning to see an upside to this ‘green’ movement.
Wait. There’s an electric reloading press??!
As to Jeff’s problems – always hold back some cash. It’s the only real leverage you have without going to court.
Wait. There’s an electric reloading press??!
If there’s any justice in this world.
There are automated reloading systems, but they are pricey.