July 28, 2014

Flashback: “On Nobility,” November 2008

Looking through my Twitter thread today I came across a Tweet by motionview that referenced this piece by Erick Erickson over at Red State.  In the piece, Erick argues that Obama is not merely incompetent but malicious, and that there are consequences to rejecting the notion of American exceptionalism (either directly or through jaded academic relativism):

There is grave incompetence in the White House. But there is also a maliciousness that views the very image of the shining city on the hill a jingoist insult to the rest of the world.

Al Qaeda once sensed weakness when, during the Clinton administration, we prosecuted instead of fought. How much more weakness does ISIS sense as we retreat from the globe, dither on the world stage, and watch our President play the back nine.

It is malicious hostility toward the world order those American leaders who lived through World War II sought to create to foster stability, peace, security. Because Barack Obama and the left have no sense of history and no respect for their predecessors on the world stage, they will seek to undo without ever appreciating why it was that order came to be.

But then the body bags will be some future President’s problem.

In responding to Erickson, motionview pointed to his own comprehensive guest post from back in 2012, along with my 2009 piece for Hot Air that, though well received, was one of my last links to (or from) the erstwhile Malkin site.

All of which put me in mind of the post that launched a thousand hatreds, which I revisited today to see exactly how it has withstood the test of time.  And now you can, too. “On nobility,” November 5, 2008:

Patterico:

Good men do bad things, and in the pursuit of ambition, they almost always do. Barack Obama is not perfect, by any stretch of the imagination.

What’s more, I think he will damage this country with bad policies. I’m not going to pretend otherwise. Inevitably, he is going to take actions that I think are disastrous, and somebody will come back and say: “Hey, Patterico! I thought you said Barack Obama was a good man!” Yes, but I never said he wasn’t going to do horrible things. It’s quite clear he will.

What’s more, there is no way in hell he is going to do away with the poisonous atmosphere in Washington, and anyone who thinks that he can is a fool. It will be amusing to watch him try.

But I make no apologies for saying he is a good man. He is my President. He is our President. And while he hasn’t always done good, I do believe he is fundamentally a good man and a patriot who wants to make this country a better place.

Precisely the kind of self-righteous civility that fried McCain. Want to be clapped on the back for your decorum? Fine. Just say so.

But let’s not pretend you are being honest or principled. Graciousness is one thing; praise is another.

This “good man” was involved in ACORN blackmail schemes. With an attempt to fraudulently undermine the Second Amendment by gaming court rulings. He got rich off of schemes that led to the mortgage crisis — then stood by and let others fix it in order to keep his hands clean during the final stages of an election. He has thrown in with race hustlers,”reformers” who believe that domestic terrorism was a valid form of expression, odious foreign potentates –

There is nothing at all noble about praising a man and a party who reviles you simply because in doing so you appear noble. Jews have tried that. And it’s often ended with skeletons and ash, or the twisted wreckage of a bus in Tel Aviv.

In this case, it will end with more McCains — and so more Obamas and Reids and Pelosis and Olbermanns.

If that’s nobility, I’m not interested. Yes, Obama is my President. But that doesn’t mean I’m forced to forget all he’s done to get there — and all that’s been done on his behalf, either by the savage supporters who went after Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin, or by the “objective media” that sold its soul for a shot at establishing the government it desired.

A good man?

A good politician, sure. A dedicated husband and father, perhaps. But a good man?

Sorry. But good men don’t lie, cheat, steal, and throw longtime supporters by the wayside just so they can rise to power — even if they’ve convinced themselves they’re doing so for some Greater Good.

Because the fact is, in this country, they’re not supposed to get to decide what that is. We are.

The rest is hubris.

****
update: For those coming over from some of the sites linking this piece, my follow-up post is here, and it explains in greater detail why I think Patterico’s position is not only wrong but dangerous.

And no, I don’t think Patterico in general dishonest or unprincipled. Quite the opposite, in fact. But in this instance, I believe he made a calculated and ostentatious decision to take the high road, and in doing so he forced himself to call someone a good man whom he knows to be quite the opposite (and has in fact suggested as much on a number of occasions).

In so doing, he has given cover to reprehensible behavior. If he believes such pragmatism will win elections, fine. Me, I’d rather lose the next few rounds if it means resurfacing with classical liberal principles intact and at the core of every campaign we run.

I believe it interesting to revisit this piece now because you can see in it what were clearly the beginnings of a divide in the GOP support structure. By this time, I had already appeared on NPR noting that McCain was a terrible candidate, and that if we were going to have a country run on big government narcissism, I’d rather that governing strategy be laid at the feet of the Democrats. This was before he selected Palin as his running mate — the only reason I could bring myself to vote for him, though he seemed determined to lose no matter what.

Interestingly, we didn’t learn from McCain’s defeat, and so when Romney was pushed as the candidate four years later — and I pointed out we were repeating our mistake of 2008 (though in point of fact, I did believe Romney would win, just that he was a lousy candidate, one that essentially removed ObamaCare as an issue for the GOP) — I met with another round of resistance, and saw my marginalization compounded.

Obviously, I stand by what I wrote at the time; Rick Moran penned an interesting piece on the conflict that erupted because of it, agreeing with my larger point (ironically so, because later, he ridiculed the TEA Party and gave people like me the charming Visigoth moniker) — though he chided me for presuming to see into Patterico’s soul and glean his intent.

But here’s the thing: though I was at pains to say, as I believed at the time, that this was not something either isolated to Frey or indicative of his overall character, I nevertheless was willing to argue that, based on any number of his prior posts written about Obama, he didn’t really believe what he was writing in his “good man” post — and that for reasons I’ve before and since argued, it is not only wrong but dangerous to try to play the game by left’s urgings, hence my distinguishing between graciousness and praise. There was and is no nobility in knowing the truth and pretending not to when the fate of a nation is at stake, just as ceding linguistic ground by playing in the left’s sandbox insures that we lose, even if it slows down how quickly that inevitably happens. Fundamental transformation can operate at many speeds.

The TEA Party elections of 2010 gave many of us hope; the GOP establishments actions since then, however, have turned that promise to pessimism — reaching its nadir with the McDaniel “defeat” in Mississippi that it turns out was bought with GOP establishment funds and sold with leftist race-baiting rhetoric.

We are where we are. And though I’m still being carefully bracketed by many major conservative outlets for the treason of finding fault in my own and openly discussing it, it heartens me to know that, pace allegations that the entire outlaw credo was just a cynical way to fundraise, in this piece you can clearly see in the conclusion that I’d already gone rogue — and that those who were serious about individual sovereignty and the classical liberalism upon which this country was founded had better begin standing on principle rather that being seen standing on ceremony.

Nearly 6-years later, and I have been making this same point nearly daily since: “I’d rather lose [a few] rounds if it means resurfacing with classical liberal principles intact and at the core of every campaign we run.”

The irony is, had we begun in 2008 — and allowed the momentum of 2010 to carry us — we’d already be where we need to be.

Instead, we got Romney, the party’s outward hostility toward its base, an impotent congressional leadership, and a world in chaos as the country disintegrates under our feet.

– And we’re beginning to hear the call for Romney to run again.

It was never my intention to show anyone up or to hurt his feelings: I was under the illusion, since rectified, that we as a conservative online movement were truly interested in finding ways to beat back leftism — and that a crucial part of that was going to include self-examination and a willingness to engage in intellectual discussion, the end result being a more unified party going forward.

Instead, I uncovered the politics of talking politics. And I can’t say that as a movement we’re anything but far worse off for it.

In fact, I doubt anyone will care much about this post. Despite there being a saying about history and forgetting it that seems quite apropos here, even if it’s inconvenient or impolitic to bring it up…

Posted by Jeff G. @ 3:14pm
190 comments | Trackback

Comments (190)

  1. I was under the illusion, since rectified, that we as a conservative online movement were truly interested in finding ways to beat back leftism

    I think that you were correct then and are correct now. However, there’s a huge difference between someone who sees themselves as conservatives (or classical liberals, if you prefer) and those who see themselves as Republicans first. Hugh Hewitt, I’m looking at you (see his constant attacks on those of us who thought Harriet Meirs was a putrid choice for SCOTUS). This is not to say that Hugh isn’t a conservative. I would say the he almost certainly is. However, the “Go team GOP!” mentality is a disease and he appears-at best- to be a carrier.

  2. It’s amazing how fast all that ‘new citizen media conservative blog-o-sphere’ crap came apart and how the greatly diminished consolidated remains of it are always at odds with their readership over them not being the right sort of followers. It’s also dark;y funny to hear the critters at Hot Air and PJ Media moaning about how they don’t have the influence they used to and trying to somehow blame the very people they banned, mocked, alienated, and ran off for the drop in relevance.

  3. So-Called Right-o-sphere: “How dare you rank-and-file simpletons take issue with your betters!? You’ll take what we feed you and like it, even if it does taste like bullshit precisely because it is! Hey, where are you going? Come back here! Don’t you walk away when we’re haranguing you!”

  4. All of your posts hold up well. That’s the funny thing about principles. They are. Pragmatism quickly becomes last season’s suit of clothes.

  5. Isn’t ClownDisaster rather like a political Anton Chigurh, who in the gas-station convenience store calmly flips his coin to decide whether he will kill the cowering station owner or not, which owner, though he is filled with fear, yet has no true idea quite what negation he faces in its fullness? He knows this fellow is strange, to be sure, but he has honestly no idea from whence. So the Americans. Simply no idea.

  6. Pragmatism is only useful in the short term for busting out of a rut. It’s great for testing a convention to see if it is functional or merely ornamental. It’s a lousy idea to hop off the shoulders of the giants and start from scratch on everything. Unless you really like knapping flint and hardening wooden points in fire. Pragmatism is not the only or the best tool in the tool box. That is has become an intellectual “brand” associated with audacity for its own sake, long unbroken series’ of increasingly bizarre fuck ups, and betraying one’s principles as a first measure is very sad.

  7. Pragmatist: ” I have the courage to do it the same way an ignorant dumb ass would do it. Because if I don’t learn the hard way, how shall I learn? By instruction? Feh. Always be tinkering and experimenting without regard for context, externalities, or the state of the art.

  8. Process Engineer : ” Hey Schmuck! You thinking outside of the box again? Guess what. That box was put there for a reason. That reason was to make life easier for the clueless. I’ll go get the fire extinguisher, shall I?

  9. There has to be a word for “rule by preening phonies.” The Establicans and the praglodyte “right”-bloggers pay weak lip service to public outrage but deep down they’re on The Good Man’s team.

  10. This is not to say that Hugh isn’t a conservative. I would say the he almost certainly is. However, the “Go team GOP!” mentality is a disease and he appears-at best- to be a carrier.

    The same could be said of Michael Medved. I was listening to his show this afternoon and he was saying how it was a mistake for the GOP to bring impeachment hearings up.

    Evidently, Sarah Palin listens to his show too because she called in and told him how wrong he was…that we need to impeach the president.

    Medved’s argument was that the same thing will happen as when we tried to impeach Clinton, a democratic win at the polls in the next election.

    A lot has changed since the Clinton years and he only had a perjury charge against him. Obama has countless charges that can be brought up for his impeachment, but as Medved says, how are you going to get the 3/4th’s majority to carry it through. And that’s saying we got ten seats in the mid-terms.

    Also, this talk of a lawsuit is just a bunch of smoke being blown up our collective asses.

  11. “Hugh Hewitt, I’m looking at you (see his constant attacks on those of us who thought Harriet Meirs was a putrid choice for SCOTUS).”

    I wasn’t a big fan of the Meirs choice either, but interestingly, insty made the point recently* that she was actually picked in a more traditional way than is done now. One can’t help but wonder in hindsight if she wouldn’t have turned out better than that Roberts disaster.

    * http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/192353/

  12. Medved’s argument was that the same thing will happen as when we tried to impeach Clinton, a democratic win at the polls in the next election.

    A Dem win? How big were the Dems’ majorities in the House and Senate after 1998? I must have missed that.

    The Republicans wound up 50-50 in the Senate after 2000, and regained full majority in 2002, leaving Jeffords twisting in the wind where he belonged. It wasn’t until 2006, after Bush 43′s amnesty try — complete with accusations of racism against anti-amnesty voters — that the majority was lost for real and in both Houses.

  13. “There has to be a word for “rule by preening phonies.” ”

    Imagoarchy? (Rule by the butterfly)

  14. Dang close to Iagoarchy, which in its own way wouldn’t be far from the scratch-line.

  15. Hmmm, speaking of On Nobility, on a tangent, Glenn Beck admits to Megyn Kelly his border action my not be as consequence neutral as some would like to imagine.

    “The unintended consequences are actually predictable: Beck’s “charity” directly undermines the rule of law by giving prizes to people who have broken the law, or who are here illegally. More people will willingly suffer by attempting to travel and enter illegally when they see that America lacks the resolve to take firm steps to stop illegal entry. Thus, Beck will increase the misery he claims to wish to alleviate. When Fox News’s Megyn Kelly presented Beck with that possibility, he responded by saying, “That may be, but that’s not my intent.” Beck thus echoed the exact same argument for nearly every rotten welfare policy ever conceived of.”

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/07/glen_becks_kindler_gentler_exploitation_of_the_border_crisis.html

  16. A Dem win? How big were the Dems’ majorities in the House and Senate after 1998? I must have missed that.

    Excuse me, I misspoke. What I meant to say was that impeachment hearings against Clinton didn’t hurt him politically, in fact, helped his poll numbers. Medved’s assertion was that the same thing will happen if impeachment proceedings are brought against Obama.

    My bad. Oh, and there just needs to be a 2/3rd majority…jeez. ( slaps self upside head.)

  17. Because Barack Obama and the left have no sense of history and no respect for their predecessors on the world stage, they will seek to undo without ever appreciating why it was that order came to be.

    At the risk of repeating myself, I think Erickson is wrong here. Obama, Hillary and the rest of the Left do have a sense of history, however antiquated and jejune.

    In fact, that’s where the maliciousness really comes in to play. Because before they can make History, they have to unmake history. Thus, the notorious “overcharge” button.

  18. >“That may be, but that’s not my intent.” Beck thus echoed the exact same argument for nearly every rotten welfare policy ever conceived of.<

    nice soundbite. let's see the full quote.

  19. after the diana west affair, at is a site to take with a few ozs of salt

  20. There has to be a word for “rule by preening phonies.”

    glitterocracy?

  21. Beck teddy beared himself out of the conversation i think

    it’s like when Rand Paul gave two thumbs up to voter fraud

  22. cloacacraty maybe

  23. in failmerica “rule by preening phonies” is called “government”

  24. Not pornocracy? Interesting.

  25. >Beck teddy beared himself out of the conversation i think

    it’s like when Rand Paul gave two thumbs up to voter fraud<

    i like deviations from from the conservatard orthodoxy. for example: the reason for this post.

  26. >It is malicious hostility toward the world order those American leaders who lived through World War II sought to create<

    well disease from the south, but now from africa
    Ebola Coming to D.C.? “Every Precaution” Being Taken by Obama Admin as African Summits Start

  27. “A lot has changed since the Clinton years and he only had a perjury charge against him.”

    Mike,

    Forgive the pile-on but Clinton also had an obstruction of justice impeachment charge. However, your larger point that Obama is a more target rich environment is still valid.

    Almost all of those potential DMPIS apply to his henchman Holder and he would almost certainly be easier to prosecute. Plus, the discovery process could open more avenues of attack against his boss.

  28. I’m gettin’ to like the ‘Impeach Holder First’ idea more and more.

  29. Forgive the pile-on but Clinton also had an obstruction of justice impeachment charge. However, your larger point that Obama is a more target rich environment is still valid.

    You are correct. Actually, Clinton had four articles brought forth, but only two of them made it through the process, I believe.

    In my mind though, perjury and obstruction of justice amount to basically the same thing. Kind of like lying to a cop about a wanted person being in your house…you weren’t under oath so you didn’t “perjure” yourself, but you did lie, causing an obstruction of justice.

    I could be wrong…wouldn’t be the first time as my comments today can attest, and probably won’t be the last.

  30. >I’m gettin’ to like the ‘Impeach Holder First’ idea more and more.<

    start with lois lerner. the discovery would be fun.

  31. I was discussing this subject this weekend, and told someone that I was thinking about writing a story with the fall of the Soviet Union as a Grand Maskirovka and Obama as a sleeper. He said “far-fetched”, and I asked him how he would be able to tell that fiction from our reality.

  32. >He said “far-fetched”,<

    well frank marshall davis For What It’s Worth

  33. ….Beck’s “charity” directly undermines the rule of law by giving prizes to people who have broken the law…

    - It’s simply fricking amazing how far out of their way and off the beaten track people and their supporters will go to avoid dealing directly with a difficult messy problem.

  34. yes the “beck is the problem stuff” is lame. the prezident “controls” the ‘borders’

  35. Oh, and there just needs to be a 2/3rd majority

    To convict, which of course nobody expects to happen anyway. There are some occasions that call for the forms to be followed by those who still subscribe to them, even if no one else does.

  36. I say impeach Jarrett first. After the teleprompter, she’s essentially what passes for the Unicorn Prince’s brain.

  37. God Almighty. This again?

    With that in mind, think about the message Beck is sending to Central Americans. When you were in Central America, Glenn Beck did not send you a teddy bear or soccer ball. Now that you have illegally crossed the border into America, Glenn Beck will give you a teddy bear or soccer ball. How could anyone who claims to care about the consequences of his actions miss the perverse incentive created by such an act?

    For Glenn to “send a message” to Central Americans, they’d have to (a) know who the hell he is; (b) see what he did; (c) consider it a weighty enough factor to tip the scales between deciding to PULL UP STAKES FROM THEIR HOMELAND AND FAMILY and traverse Mexico and not doing that.

    Not one of those three criteria are being met, even remotely, which renders the entire argument as moot as Keith Olberman’s career aspirations.

    Just last Wednesday I was talking to two SALVADORANS about the kids coming up and not one of them mentioned Glenn Beck or anything like unto it. People don’t just saunter across the border, though it may seem like it to us. They don’t come up here on a whim, nor do they base their decision on what an ENGLISH-SPEAKING güero does or does not do. They DO NOT pay attention to our media — they pay attention to theirs, and their media did not cover Glenn Beck’s foray into the borderlands.

    Hell, OUR media didn’t cover it. What makes you think Glenn’s actions made ONE IOTA of difference?

    If the kids want teddy bears and sammiches they can get them in their home countries.

    They’re not going to spend three days atop a train — with nothing to eat, BTW, at risk of being tossed off the train when they fail to pay bribes to the tougher kids — because they heard that a conservative talk show host in Texas spent one day handing out food and toys with the nuns WHO WERE ALREADY THERE AND CONTINUE TO BE THERE.

    Did I mention that all the Salvadorans I’ve talked to are Mormons, living in Utah? They are. They still don’t know who Glenn Beck is nor do they care.

    Cripes, you people overestimate our impact on this world. Why would SPANISH-SPEAKING people give a rip about Glenn Beck?

    THEY. DON’T.

    They’re coming here because our government has invited them to come up, in violation of existing laws, and the gubmint is rolling out the red carpet.

    Being able to stay here is the gravitational pull, ya ninnies, not an effing teddy bear.

  38. >american thinker< ruining class wannabees

  39. But I make no apologies for saying he is a good man. He is my President. He is our President. And while he hasn’t always done good, I do believe he is fundamentally a good man and a patriot who wants to make this country a better place.

    Then the squeak-ass little pin prick ran around looking for dicks in pics, got himself involved in a reverse-sting, got sued multiple times, and is fighting to keep his livelyhood alive. Couldn’t have happened to nicer guy, really.

  40. Is he really fighting to keep his livelyhood alive? Gosh. I hadn’t heard that.

    But then, why would I have?

  41. But I make no apologies for saying he is a good man. He is my President.

    The term “sniveling sycophant” comes to mind. Having no great talents of their own, they compensate for their mediocrity by cozying up to whomever is strongest that day.

    ¡Viva el que vence! is their motto. “Long live the victor.” They’re the worst kinds of people to have in the trenches, because they’ll switch sides as soon as the momentum shifts.

    Peter Pettigrew, that’s who. Nine-fingered rat.

  42. So many threw in with him, though. Because he was a DDA; and I was a hausfrau.

    So it goes. So it goes.

  43. I like to think of you as Veronica Franco.

    Only with a dick.

  44. PD: Maybe that c&d order’s in this strongbox, Perry.

    PM: Nope, not in here. Let’s go check Disneyland. You carry the box.

    PD: Okay.

  45. “That may be, but that’s not my intent.” Beck thus echoed the exact same argument for nearly every rotten welfare policy ever conceived of.”

    1. If you confuse an act of private charity with immigration policy, you might be an idiot.

    2. If you think people are sending their kids unaccompanied from Central America to Texas for a fucking teddy bear, you are definitely an idiot.

  46. Semi-OT: I’ve just submitted the following to UrbanDictionary.com as a definition for “praglodyte”:

    A preening phony “pragmatist,” usually an Establican, who would rather cooperate in the implosion of civilization than risk being called names for trying to prevent it. A proglodyte‘s best frenemy.

    The words in bold are other words I know are in there — and Establican is one of mine.

    For a while they were rejecting everything I submitted but they accepted the last one so maybe this one will get in too.

  47. Godspeed, McGehee.

    That’s a fine definition.

  48. “For a while they were rejecting everything I submitted but they accepted the last one so maybe this one will get in too.”

    Yeah, they started googling for signs of actual usage because too many people were treating Urban Dictionary as a launchpad for their personal sniglets.

  49. Bah. They’ve already rejected it, barely an hour after I submitted it. Fucking praglodytes.

  50. Actually, they crowdsource the approvals. I just plowed through a bunch of submissions myself, only maybe one or two of which would have been in line with their published standards.

    And what’s wrong with launching sniglets?

  51. Are they at all similar to pikachus?

    “Let’s light that candle,” then.

    10…

  52. *** Boehner: This impeachment Constitution talk is nothing but a “scam” being run by Democrats Republicans to rally their base. ***

    Damn.

    Never were truer [corrected] words to fall from his mouth.

  53. Poor Mark Levin who just had a melt-down, an entirely understandable and justified melt-down I may add. Why poor? Because the can’t name names.

    But I can.

    He wanted to name Greg Gutfeld, Andrea Tantaros, Eric Bolling and the tippy-top of the tippy-top of the rino scrum queens, Dana Perino — but he didn’t.

    Though he should have.

  54. “If you confuse an act of private charity with immigration policy, you might be an idiot.”

    How about private employment for illegals, think they are consequence neutral too? Course they are, how would a Salvadorian hear about Crown Farms of Central California hiring illegals?

    “If you think people are sending their kids unaccompanied from Central America to Texas for a fucking teddy bear, you are definitely an idiot”

    And if you think there are kids of the age that are interested in teddy bears traveling across Mexico unaccompanied you are very impressionable to propaganda.

  55. Plus, if it’s good for Glenn Becks one day photo-op, why not everyone do it. You know, the real Christian ones I mean. Lets all send groceries, clothes, games, scholarships, and job offers to the poor immigrants. Don’t matter, all that matters is Obamas actions. The Salvadorans won’t know what the rest of us do.

  56. 20 per county baby, it’s the least we GOOD Christians can do.

  57. >it’s the least we GOOD Christians can do.<

    a logical thing to do is send them home asap

  58. >if it’s good for Glenn Becks one day photo-op<

    he's funding stuff down there for the next 2-3 months

  59. “he’s funding stuff down there for the next 2-3 months”

    Not what I heard.

    “dicentra says July 28, 2014 at 8:24 pm

    … because they heard that a conservative talk show host in Texas spent one day handing out food and toys”

  60. > because they heard that a conservative talk show host in Texas spent one day handing out food and toys”<

    it'll take more than a day

    After Raising Nearly $2 Million for Illegal Immigrant Children, Beck Plans to Help This Group of People Next

  61. Geez newrouter, keep that on the down low! They might hear of it south of the border!

  62. Fish in a barrel, John.

    Engage di or Pablo if you want to make this point. As best I can tell, it’s not a strong point though.

  63. You have to make the case that this is what motivates the individuals, John. That’s the only way your argument will gain traction.

    Not some nebulous notion that feels close enough. No, that’s not good enough.

  64. >Beck said that once the amount surpasses $2 million, he wants to start raising money for the Border Patrol agents who are “going through hell,” and make sure that any rancher that is “deeply affected by what is going on on our border” is also taken care of.<

  65. I’ll say right now that I agree with di and Pablo that it’s absurd to consider Beck as anything other than a charitable vector here.

    I say this after stating as clearly as I can that I have reservations about his rhetoric.

    Beck ain’t the problem. It strains credibility to even imagine that he could become such in this domain.

  66. Pretty much agree that Beck isn’t the problem bh (as a sideshow isn’t really a problem), surely at least not in regards to the immigration debacle. His grasp of political matters though, while still deficient, continues to improve by small steps because, it seems, he wants to know what he doesn’t know and so questions himself and learns, making a good example for others. That’s a good thing, I think. It’s not so good on the other hand, that some of his provisional if yet principled political teachings are way out of whack (but he’s working on it, again, gotta give him that), attached to ideas which in my view just don’t fit — square blocks crammed into round holes — while his audience, distinguishes?, doesn’t distinguish? Hard hard hard to say.

  67. Plus, if it’s good for Glenn Becks one day photo-op, why not everyone do it.

    I don’t know, maybe because that’s a weak recapitulation of the categorical imperative that no one has taken seriously for a couple hundred years?

  68. As you state, so do I think, sdferr.

    Beck isn’t central or even tertiary to this issue. It makes me wonder why he keeps coming up as this is pretty clearly true. Seems like misdirection.

  69. At the guess I make, there is underlying uncertainty associated with his [willy-nilly] prominence as a teacher (sketched above), a teacher who (happily) has assumed the role simply because no one else was filling it. And those harder skeptics (not speaking of john here, but at Breitbart and such) make to attack wherever they sense an opening. But, I dunno, cause as I say, this is a guess based on very little actual contemplation.

  70. glenn beck and his teddy bears are really nice but not particularly germane to american politics in any meaningful way

  71. >glenn beck and his teddy bears are really nice but not particularly germane to american politics in any meaningful way<

    that's true. the beckster is going for the culture. so he's upstream of orangeman.

  72. OT: Tillman is giving me awful agita tonight. And it was nice to see Wrapper get a homerun last night, by the way.

  73. Kulturkampf?

  74. For myself, I’ll take beer and schnitzel and leave the cold, ugly kultur on the plate.

  75. I wonder, how did Western civilization become so confused that “politics” became a curse while “kulturkampf” became a new slogan?

    What the hell?

  76. Art rose from an afterthought to the most prominent of employments. Thanks to? Kant and his fucking aesthetics, we could say, but then we’d just be back to blaming Rousseau. Ahhh, whatev’s.

  77. It’s sick.

  78. It’s democracy.

    The handgun took the power out of the hands of the aristocrats and put it in the hands of the masses. We’d hardly expect the masses to have a brain between them, would we?

  79. Charles Mackay would argue that there is an inverse relationship here, I suppose.

    Never mind Burke, never mind our founders, let’s go all in on kulturkampf and swirl around the toilet bowl like properly kultured continentals.

    Feh.

  80. Rabelais told the whole story. Bellies and schlongs, belching farting and fucking, the wave of his future.

  81. this is just oprahfication, what beck is doing

    the oprahfication of something serious and sad

  82. Tocqueville shrugs, says “I told you so.”

  83. >the oprahfication of something serious and sad<

    the oprahfication kinda peaked with the baracky. like sooo 2008

  84. Roundly speaking (very roundly, not even thanks to ISIS) we’re once again back to the great city Ninevah “wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle”

  85. >this is just oprahfication, what beck is doing<

    oh dear pikachu

    Sarah Palin launches online TV channel

  86. >wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand;<

    allan told them what hand to wipe with

  87. I agree Beck is not the source of the problem, and at the outset I was pretty ambiguous about what he is doing at the border. Having said that, the more people defend him, them more counter productive his actions appear to me. Maybe it is my own character flaw.

    I just got to ask, since when has aiding and abetting a criminal act a consequence neutral proposition?

  88. i hope she shows us how to make biscuits from scratch

    i have a rolling pin i never used my whole life

  89. i have a rolling pin i never used my whole life

    gots handles? or just a bat?

    time to make pie!

  90. i need a “sifter” i think first

  91. nope, nobody needs a sifter

  92. Sorry, there should be a “become” up there in my last.

  93. oh.

    it’s time to learn me how to make biscuits then

  94. > since when has aiding and abetting a criminal act a consequence neutral proposition?<

    ask the baracky?

  95. I just got to ask, since when has aiding and abetting a criminal act a consequence neutral proposition?

    A fine question. Aiding and abetting is not without consequence. You’re stealing a base here though. How does Beck aid and abet these criminal acts? Does he control the power of the purse by way of welfare? (Certainly he argues against this.) Does he grant amnesty? (Certainly he argues against this.) Does anyone south of the border act based on his influence? (Very unlikely.)

    He’s not guilty of aiding and abetting. Not being guilty of a crime should be a fairly robust defense, I’d hope.

  96. biscuits go good with moose stew

  97. Barry is the criminal. I would have to ask Harry.

  98. Makin’ biscuits I don’t bother to roll ‘em out with a pin (actually I use a baseball bat for my pin, but that’s neither here nor there). I just pile the dough in a bunch on a well floured surface and pat it into flatness. Y’ez can use an clean old can for a cutter, or a sharp edged wineglass or whatever, if y’ez don’t have the special biscuit cutter tool.

  99. Fish in a barrel, John.

    Engage di or Pablo if you want to make this point. As best I can tell, it’s not a strong point though.
    - See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=54542#comment-1098469

    It’s a niche Beck fills that helps all of us. Otherwise, we could very well be construed yet again as stone-cold, hard-hearted Conservatives. Imagine that!

    I recall commentary I made, early in the tidal wave of illegals children, before we discovered the true nature of the flood: that we, Conservatives, should adopt some of these kids so as to raise them less as mindless tools of LeftLibProggs and more like us.

    But that’s not even an option now. There’s no mechanism for the youngest ones to have a chance to grow up as Americans; all of these ‘children’ are intended as tools (or shields, if you will) to forward Progressive goals.

    What Beck does is give feel-good, probably futile, but still a satisfying push-back against the Progressive grain. I’ve no problem with that whatsoever.

  100. “Does he control the power of the purse by way of welfare? ”

    According to recent reports, yes, to the tune of $2,ooo,000.00 worth.

    Plus, I have a problem with all these declarations the people below the border live in ignorance of the world wide web.

  101. “we could very well be construed yet again as stone-cold, hard-hearted Conservatives.”

    Oh no! Well then, we better fight capitol punishment, legalize meth, and license ho’s. For a better America!

  102. ok I’m a go this route

    sometime this week or maybe on the weekend

  103. just buy a bag of White Lily flour and use the recipe on the bag, feets.

    put up your rolling pin, biscuits don’t do that. just pat em flat and cut em out, don’t work em.

    hard biscuits are nasty. they should be light enough to float.

  104. According to recent reports, yes, to the tune of $2,ooo,000.00 worth.

    And this huge fund is being paid out to illegals in the form of housing vouchers or food stamps? The sort of ongoing payment that encourages them northward?

    Or, is it not being directed as ongoing payments?

    Is Beck a new (smallish) federal government handing out sugar to buy votes? I’d find this to be a surprising development to say the least.

  105. That looks a good guide hf, though you can get along without any kneading (don’t want to develop gluten strands) at all, though the folding is ok. It’ll work, easy-peasy.

  106. ok I’m a go get the flour tonight

  107. Look, all of us are free to disagree with Beck’s goals or methods but it’s not kosher to make believe as to what he’s doing or what he even has the potential to do.

  108. one nice thing to have on hand, even if you go ahead and get regular buttermilk (which I recommend you do) is some of that powdered buttermilk to keep onna shelf for in a pinch times when the fresh isn’t in the fridgy.

  109. Bh, is it your opinion the only player in the game is the Feds? The Chamber of Commerce (for example) has no influence? The drug and prostitution trades have no effect? La Raza? Telemundo? Encouragement from liberal churches? Sanctuary cities?

    The problem is bigger than the White house, and anyone who smooth’s the road for illegal immigration is part of the problem, not the solution.

    IMHO.

  110. >but it’s not kosher to make believe as to what he’s doing or what he even has the potential to do.<

    disrupting the narrative about moose biscuits

  111. the beckster is upsetting the apple cart like an armadillo drunk on tequila
    For What Its Worth

  112. i believe that changing the “american culture” to classical liberalism is alot easier than changing the “ruining class political culture” to it.

  113. i’ll check for the powdered at Ralph’s

    I’m going to burbtard Ralph’s and I’m not super familiar with that one

  114. When it comes to the border, currently, yes, the Feds are the only player in the game. We’d both like it to be otherwise but that’s the lay of the land.

    This doesn’t matter though. The man argues daily against illegal immigration to his rather large audience. I don’t know how to rectify this disagreement we’re having if that doesn’t count.

    When we speak of the Chamber of Commerce and La Raza as agents in this affair then certainly we must recognize that Beck… is on the other side of the argument.

  115. Am I missing something? Isn’t Beck against illegal immigration? Against amnesty? Against dangling the actual impetus for crossing the border in front of these people? Doesn’t he say this regularly on his show?

    How does that not matter? I’m at a loss.

  116. If you’re missing anything bh, it might be something like Beck’s communications back into the nations from whence these invaders come, since I think he deliberately sends messages there proclaiming that the trek north is not a benefit to those who undertake it, but a grave risk instead.

  117. Here I’ll have to claim ignorance, sdferr. It’s my right, as I’m ignorant and all.

  118. >i’ll check for the powdered at Ralph’s<

    Happy

  119. I’m not a Beck hater, all I’m saying is you can condemn amnesty all you like, but if you then go down to Home Depot’s parking lot and hire half a dozen illegals to build your deck, you are part of the problem. Even if they never hear your name in Oaxaca.

  120. Remember the ol’ line about “objectively pro-fascist”?

    It’s hard to read that transcript without thinking “objectively anti-illegal immigration” even if I could find room to quibble with the rhetoric. (I do often find it easy to quibble with his rhetoric, of course. It’s a thing with me, I suppose.)

    When you read that you have to think he’s not playing both sides of the fence. Maybe he doesn’t make the case as I would but it’s pretty easy to see he’s not looking to encourage the invasion. No, not at all. Very much the opposite.

  121. > but if you then go down to Home Depot’s parking lot and hire half a dozen illegals to build your deck, you are part of the problem. <

    apples and potatoes are tasty with some guacamole

  122. Here’s a slightly diverting (sad) story about how not to get to the USA, or anywhere else for that matter. Main gear compartments are for main gear and not anything else.

  123. You are right newrouter. Becks beneficiaries only had to swim a river, not build a deck. A handout, not a wage.

    Here’s on for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGRZXPyHKtg

  124. ONE for you I mean.

  125. >but if you then go down to Home Depot’s parking lot and hire half a dozen illegals to build your deck, you are part of the problem.<

    An Immigration Trio

  126. >Becks beneficiaries only had to swim a river, not build a deck. A handout, not a wage. <

    dude good samaritan rings a bell? the enemy is baracky not the fools he deceived or manipulated.

  127. john is alot like the tiresome rnc emails in the inbox. me: fu and your boner and the mitchy and the rovester

  128. “dude good samaritan rings a bell?”

    Ah, back to the good Christian thing are we?

    Well then, I’m back to:

    “john says July 29, 2014 at 5:22 pm

    … if it’s good for Glenn Beck…Lets all send groceries, clothes, games, scholarships, and job offers to the poor immigrants”

    Borders don’t mean a thing.

  129. Cool, I’ll take the hint (brick?). My last word on the dealeo: see above.

  130. The ORR (Office of Refugee Resettlement, whaaa?) just dumped 760 kiddos in Tennessee, all quiet like.
    TN’s Gov. Haslam (R, GOP Elitist) has submitted the standardized-form questions to Barky..

    1. What was the process for determining that these children should be released to sponsors in Tennessee?
    2. How did you locate and evaluate the fitness of their sponsors?
    3. What medical screenings were the children given prior to their release in Tennessee?
    4. What is the official immigration status of these children and their sponsors?
    5. In what localities are these children now residing?
    6. What are the legal requirements concerning the provision of services for these children while they are in the state?
    7. What additional information is available on these children, such as age and health status?
    8. How long will these children be in Tennessee?

    Tennessee is a diverse and welcoming state, and we also understand that this is a complicated issue. However, an influx of unaccompanied immigrant children to the state, with little information being made available to the public or to state leaders, creates confusion and could be very problematic. The start of school is approaching for many districts across the state, and the federal government’s actions have caused great uncertainty around this issue.

    I appreciate your attention to this matter and look forward to receiving a response to these urgent questions.

    Sincerely, Bill [Pablum] Haslam

    There’s more coming, regardless Haslam’s meek letter.

    How I’d like to trade him for Perry!..

    “Obama, you ne0-C0mmie fink, I’m sending MY National Guard to the Texas border to keep YOUR hoodlums OUT!
    Sincerely Fuck Off, Rick [My Ballz are Bigger'n Yours] Perry

  131. >Ah, back to the good Christian thing are we?

    Well then, I’m back to:

    “john says July 29, 2014 at 5:22 pm

    … if it’s good for Glenn Beck…Lets all send groceries, clothes, games, scholarships, and job offers to the poor immigrants”

    Borders don’t mean a thing.<

    you be to much of a rnc tool. i remember miss.. same bs.

  132. It’s a niche Beck fills that helps all of us. Otherwise, we could very well be construed yet again as stone-cold, hard-hearted Conservatives. Imagine that!

    Now we’ll be construed as stone-cold hard-hearted Conservatives, with Glenn Beck the exception that proves the rule. Or, as the pragmatic, highly paid, professional Republicans say, #Winning!

    Rush had a spot-on parody segment today. Some poor kid from Guatamala who fled crime, drugs, gang-violence and a future with no job prospects, and now, thanks to Obama, he was living in Chicago, where there was crime, drugs, gang-violence and a future with no job prospects.

  133. >if it’s good for Glenn Beck…Lets all send groceries, clothes, games, scholarships, and job offers to the poor immigrants”<

    so johnny why is private charity bad? it is not going to get msm or the socialist spanish attention. you hate brown peeps?

  134. I’m thinking the poor kid from Guatamala is going to find Chicago in December not much of a trade. Probably will head for the crime, drugs, gang-violence and a future with no job prospects in LA by the new year.

  135. The race card? Really?

  136. >Now we’ll be construed as stone-cold hard-hearted Conservatives, <

    stop playing the part assigned to you in this proggtard fantasy world

  137. >The race card? Really?<

    worked for thad cochran in miss.

  138. And here I thought bh was being too hard on you.

    Sorry bh!

  139. hey rnc: your day is coming really soon. regards to the mitchey and orangeman.

  140. My qualm with what Beck is doing is that it strikes me as a violation of the don’t feed the bears principle.

    My qualm with my qualm is that take Beck at his word that he’s acting out of Christian charity.

    Of course, that’s exactly how the left wants to frame this debate.

    Maybe we’ll get lucky, and some Mexican drug cartel will lob a couple of missles into El Paso or San Diego, and we can get our General Pershing on.

  141. >And here I thought bh was being too hard on you. <

    you be a shill for rnc. i be anti rnc, dnc and effin' ruining class. go have a little debbie wasserman shultz

  142. stop playing the part assigned to you in this proggtard fantasy world

    Sure. I’ll come out for legalized dope, whores and guestworkers. Just like John.

  143. I hear you Ernst. Word to the wise though, I used the “don’t feed a stray cat” analogy a while back and got skinned alive for it.

    Probably should take it back before Dicentra and newrouter hear about it.

  144. > don’t feed the bears principle.<

    allan damn too funny

    The Bear Is Loose

    you go grrl

  145. “stop playing the part assigned to you in this proggtard fantasy world”

    “you be a shill for rnc”

    I’m so confused.

  146. >Sure. I’ll come out for legalized dope, whores and guestworkers.<

    apples and potatoes. do you have a real?

  147. >“you be a shill for rnc”

    I’m so confused.<

    i know you are rnc


    Boehner rules out impeachment, but Democrats cash in on the threat

    too effin stupid rnc. power of the purse: no. power of impeachment: no.
    effing useless clowns.

  148. Yeah, John’s made it quite clear that he’s all for immigration reform and a path to citizenship. Probably wants to repeal and replace Obamacare too. Why, I bet he’s even a member of the Chamber of Commerce!

    Nobody put’s one over on newrouter

  149. >Nobody put’s one over on newrouter<

    john:

    2
    : a prostitute's client

  150. do you have a real?

    My point was that the easiest way to prove you’re not a h8ter is to except the premise. Kind of like David Brock.

    Or more to the point, George Will, who really, sincerely, honestly and for true thinks everybody ought to be an American.

  151. >Why, I bet he’s even a member of the Chamber of Commerce!<

    you know differently?

  152. > except the premise. <

    i do that

  153. Probably should take it back before Dicentra and newrouter hear about it.

    Or, I can reach into the Catholic/natural law politico-moral vocabulary bag of tricks Joseph Bottum talked about here and play my

    Prudential Judgement card.

    I think I made it clear that I’m conflicted. I don’t think what Beck did was wrong, but I’m not sure it was right, either. That’s from a purely political perspective, of course. And Beck says he isn’t acting politically here (I think), and I take him at his word (if that indeed is his word –I’m following this third or fourth hand).

  154. It’s sorta funny to argue for a charitable reading for Beck and then almost immediately wish the same would be granted for those expressing concern about Beck’s actions/statements.

    Seems to me that John is arguing in good faith here.

  155. > except the premise. <
    i do that

    Heh. You got me there.

    I can’t even blame that autofill or autocorrect. I did that all by myself.

  156. John doesn’t know the secret handshake.

    So newrouter thinks he can play pledge master.

  157. burbtard Ralph’s only had lowfat buttermilk

    to say nothing of the powdered kind

    burbtard Ralph’s also didn’t have the right flour

    and they only had salted butter

    they also didn’t have any ginger root

    Burbank is just a different world, but the thing is

    in Burbank they give you bags for your groceries

    it’s so cool

  158. > but I’m not sure it was right, either<

    no fed gov't funds involved. or state gov't $ or local gov't$ .why should you care?

  159. In fairness, there’s a tendency, not without reason of course, to assume that any commenter without a gravatar is trolling.

  160. >in Burbank they give you bags for your groceries

    it’s so cool<

    well jerry brown will get you. along with the geezer demonrat ruining class.
    enjoy the food.

  161. why should you care?

    don’t feed the bears, aid and comfort to the enemy,

    that sort of thing.

    Again, as a matter of partisan politics, which, as I’ve already acknowledged, isn’t an angle Beck is looking to play here.

  162. >So newrouter thinks he can play pledge master.<

    nah just asking ? dude should get a online name. john? rncjohn works no?

  163. My plan, where I king instead of Obama, would be to erect a six foot high chain link fence across the border with signs reading “Property of the USA, no trespassing” (just to satisfy the lawyers) and add all the high tech anti-invasion sensors known to man plus drones. Then I’d have Joe Arpaio build, oh, say, 20 tent cities spread from sea to shining sea within a quarter mile of the border, each with a contingent of rapid response regular army airborn, including helicopters.

    EVERY mothers child crossing that fence would very quickly find themselves in pink jumpsuits eating baloney sandwiches, hoeing weeds, and waiting for the first bus to Mexico city. Where they would be dumped at city hall. With nothing but the clothes they jumped the fence in.

    Sounds cruel, but I guarantee, inside a month you would have a bunch of bored airborn troops at the border just wishing some asshole would try it.

    It’s like my kids HS principle told me when they banned strapping at the school; “The idiots! It’s not like we had to strap every kid in school, just the knowledge that you could kept the kids in line. You only had to do it once!”

  164. how about : johnnrsc?

  165. just asking

    hey, newrouter, you’re not a putz, are you, putz?

  166. >It’s like my kids HS principle told me when they banned strapping at the school;<

    too much bs from rnc. you folks are clowns. say hi to eric on your way out.

  167. >are you, putz?<

    ax the zuckerthing. king putz.

  168. “there’s a tendency, not without reason of course, to assume that any commenter without a gravatar is trolling”

    I’m an old dude. I feel just registering is an accomplishment.

    Gravatar? is that where you put on special boots and hang upside down. That’s so ’70′s.

  169. mr ernst ,

    the rnc trolling pw?

  170. >john says July 29, 2014 at 10:45 pm<

    sure pal

  171. “Seems to me that John is arguing in good faith here.”

    I appreciate the vote of confidence.

    I’ve been fuming about illegal aliens since Reagan granted amnesty, and everything I bitched about then has come to pass. In spades. With bells.

    Still think Reagan was a great man, but he sure screwed the pooch that time. Is what you get for trusting a demonrat is what I learned from the thing.

  172. > but he sure screwed the pooch that time. <

    he was bipartisan no? which party screwed the pooch?

  173. >I’ve been fuming about illegal aliens since Reagan granted amnesty, and everything I bitched about then has come to pass. In spades. With bells. <

    yes i'm sure. how's the rockefellers and scrantons doing?

  174. Can’t tell you about the Rockefellers, but I can tell you California’s (Reagans home state) schools went from one of the top in the nation to one of the bottom.

    Just wait and see what happens with this next round of good will. It’s going to be ugly. Common core in bilingual classrooms. Whee!

  175. >but I can tell you California’s (Reagans home state) <

    too proggtarded a framing. karl rove has some clean up in aisle #43 sir.

  176. Way to stay on the case there, Chief Inspector Javert-Clouseau

  177. that sounded sarcastic, how you phrased that

  178. Not at all.

    pherret out phantom pragmatists and proggtards I always say.

  179. one must do his share of pherretings if one expects to eat

    lest puritan principles cease to prevail

  180. Pikachu, pherret thyself.

  181. Pikachu, goeth and phuck thyself.

  182. Yeah well the $8 coffee sophisticates have done so well for themselves lately that they deserve a snipe at phantom puritans even if they wouldn’t know a puritan if oneunbuckled his hatband on their windowsill, and are really just upset by the big box store bourgeois stink of people who don’t have the time to ask what would Hipster #378 do before every decision. I mean Folger’s crystals? C’mon. What does Jesus need with a fast food chicken joint?

  183. “I wonder, how did Western civilization become so confused that “politics” became a curse while “kulturkampf” became a new slogan?
    What the hell?”

    “Corrupt the politicians and then when the polity is angry release the radical activists and then play them off against each other” is not exactly a new play.

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