Somehow we as a nation went from the iconic Marlboro Man to Pajama Boy — from the noble individual with a bad habit to the ignoble without a good habit — without a blink in between.
There are lots of revolting things in the Pajama Boy ad. After all, how can you top all at once a nerdy-looking child-man dressed in infantile pajamas while cradling a cup of hot chocolate with the smug assurance that he is running your life more than you his?
Out here in the rural middle of California — or most anywhere 30 miles inland from the coasts — Pajama Boy would last about two seconds pruning vines, or walking about the local Wal-Mart parking lot with his hot chocolate. Yet put him where his foot-padded pajamas bring dividends and for the last five years we all have lived out the consequences of his ilk’s ideological dreaming.
The great mystery of America today is how many of us have joined Pajama Boy nation — 20%, 40%, 60%? — and how many want nothing to do with such metrosexual visions of a huge state run by a nerdocracy, incompetently doling out other people’s money. How many were on board for Obamacare, more entitlements, and lectures from the apartheid elite on inequality and fairness, versus how many turn the channel at sound of His voice. […]
Pajama Boy is the bookend to vero possumus, the faux-Greek columns, the Obama rainbow logo, cooling the planet and lowering the seas, hope and change, Forward!, “Yes, we can!”, the Nate Silver infatuation, Barbara Walters’ “messiah,” David Brooks’ crease, Chris Matthews’ tingle, and the army of Silicon techies who can mobilize for Obama but not for Obamacare. These are the elites without identities who feed on the latest fad. They are the upper-crust versions of those who once mobbed stores to buy the last Cabbage Patch Kids doll, or had to have a pet rock on their dresser. Obama, after all, was the lava lamp and Chia Pet of the young urban progressive.
If I were to focus on just two of the many characteristics of Pajama Boy nation in the Age of Obama, one would be that the consequences of one’s ideology apply always to someone else. Obama obsesses on inequality, but cannot even go through the populist motions of avoiding Martha’s Vineyard, or not dressing like a nerd for golf at the latest tony course.
He is an arugula-eating man of the people who tries to bowl only during election season. Michelle rags on the 1%, but still hits Costa del Sol and Aspen. Obamacare for us; for congressional staffers and insiders something quite different. A Nobel Prize and a half a billion dollars for guru Al Gore; and dumping Current TV on a fossil-fuelled, anti-Semitic authoritarian Middle Eastern regime to fund more good work of our green Elmer Gantry. Amnesty for illegal aliens, but private academies for liberal kids far from the ensuing chaos of the public schools. Pajama Boys are fiercely liberal so that they can fiercely avoid the people they so champion and are so afraid to live among.
Forward! into the New Feudalism.
arugula is tasty on pizza sometimes I add it to frozen ones to give them a little more – you know
cilantro works sometimes too
If arugula was meant to go on pizza, it would taste like pepperoni.
ok well also you can sprinkle it as a garnish on any cheese/olive/pesto/fruit plate you set out
no green is obscene you know
that’s what i learned about plate presentation anyway
but I think it’s mostly just a reminder to garnish i don’t think it always has to be green
Mr. Hanson’s stereotype is a little too limiting. You can still live on the coasts, wear thick plastic frames, and spend three months a year in Tulelake CA pruning vines, pulling weeds, educating rural children, and hitching rides to the Klamath Falls Walmart (or the Sherm’s Thunderbird). If it wasn’t for Tule I wouldn’t have fired a weapon or met a Mormon so wins all around. As long as you stay on the approved topic list rural folks are actually quite sweet, and there are thousands of people who travel from cities to do meaningful work in rural places, live among them, and figure out what it’s really like. He’s painting too broadly for effect and its bothersome. Not putting on the drag of American masculinity doesn’t mean one can’t or won’t do the work associated with it, or like the people that wear it effortlessly.
And the best part is, when you tweet out “I hope they don’t plan on making me to squeal like a pig” just before you head out the door, you don’t have to worry about having accidentally committed a thoughtcrime.
DaleK as the Victorian Gentleman on safari having his picture taken with the local Zulu chieftain, who is a nice enough chat if you don’t stray into topics that startle the darkies.
Dalekhunter says December 23, 2013 at 11:49 am
Mr. Hanson’s stereotype is a little too limiting. You can still live on the coasts, wear thick plastic frames, and spend three months a year in Tulelake CA pruning vines, pulling weeds, educating rural children, and hitching rides to the Klamath Falls Walmart (or the Sherm’s Thunderbird). If it wasn’t for Tule I wouldn’t have fired a weapon or met a Mormon so wins all around. As long as you stay on the approved topic list rural folks are actually quite sweet, and there are thousands of people who travel from cities to do meaningful work in rural places, live among them, and figure out what it’s really like. He’s painting too broadly for effect and its bothersome. Not putting on the drag of American masculinity doesn’t mean one can’t or won’t do the work associated with it, or like the people that wear it effortlessly.
– See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52269#respond
Mr. Shatner provides my response to the above here
As long as you stay on the approved topic list…
In other words, topics you approve of. How broad minded.
Most reasonable people can take challenges to their belief as long as you don’t dismiss their belief straight out, call them idiots for believing something, or racists, or evil.
Sure, you can. That doesn’t mean you do. I can think of one guy who does quite a bit of that “a foot in both worlds” sort of thing. Victor Davis Hanson.
Mr. Hanson isn’t the one living down to stereotypes to cement their tribal identity. Like, say, not knowing anyone who voted for Nixon (of course the columnist did, she simply assumed those people’s votes wouldn’t be counted).
Self-stereotyping as a means to declare tribal identity is how we get trolls like DK and hellomynameispajamaboy and various hepatic cartoon rodents.
I dunno. Something about pajamaboy just brings out the Major General Colt in me.
http://www.quotefully.com/movie/Kelly's+Heroes/General+Colt
As long as you stay on the approved topic list…
Meaning that often times cross cultural learning occurs when you don’t bring up political ideological or religious differences and earnestly focus on the shared life experiences that can be mutually enlightening. It’s not a matter of colonial curiosity, it’s politeness and respect to other people when you’re on their turf trying to get something done.
And they say atheists don’t do missionary work
it’s politeness and respect to other people when you’re on their turf trying to get something done
Which explains all of the trespassing and vandalism and hurled epithets and lawsuits, right? Real politeness and respect from the heterophobic coprophages like you.
How cosmopolitan… visiting a town in nearly-not-California.
If the tallest building within a mile is less than five stories, then “hinterland”, according to the heterophobic khunt.
Got it.
cross cultural learning occurs when you don’t bring up political ideological or religious differences
A neat trick considering politics and religion are often prime determinants of cultures.
More VDH:
Our elites would be right at home in Petronius’s world of debauchery and bored melodrama.
I know this isn’t new anymore but this is the most profoundly tone deaf and low quality thing I’ve seen in quite a while. (“Obeezycare” video). It looks like an act of sabotage it’s so lame and irritating. It’s Casio-tone rap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GmY8KH03rM
It’s almost as shitty and off putting as the typical “artsy” luxury car commercial* that claims to commemorate genius or has a strange model wearing too much makeup laguidly prancing around an array of crossover SUV things in the courtyard of a mansion, or the latest christmas ad that has lots of carny people traipsing through a desert shouting “fair deal” (representing the post black Friday Christmas sales clamor) and throwing glitter about as luxury cars shoot past them in formation to make them look lame or something . OR the little kid who builds a seasonal gingerbread house that has an Audi parked in front of it.
(*As opposed to the “irresponsible driver owns the road thanks to advanced technology and doesn’t have to worry about any consequences ” style that has a young woman in a party dress bouncing around listening to techno while doing 85 down a curved tunnel, or has some clueless yuppie a-hole shifting lanes at high speed to get his very pregnant wife to Nathan’s famous hotdogs just before they close and almost has a wreck and the auto-braking sensors and superior computer controlled handling saves them from tragedy because they paid big money for a magical car)
“DaleK as the Victorian Gentleman on safari having his picture taken with the local Zulu chieftain, who is a nice enough chat if you don’t stray into topics that startle the darkies. ”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK1N_vTgayw
– It would seem to be that the vast wasteland of TV has evolved to the vast wasteland of metrosexual pajama-boi culture, the only possible template that proggies can seemingly fit into, as long as no one demands any trutiness that is.
Seriously a cheaped up ” Drop it like it’s hot” cover is going to sell the ultra-cluster eff that is Obamacare to people who are getting their ass financially kicked for year 5?
Pajama Boy and a disturbing Santa.
What could go wrong ?
“arugula is tasty on pizza”
Sure if you’re too stupid to use basil.
From Che to PajamaBoy in under 50 years. #Winning!
My people settled in the San Joaquin Valley in the early ’30s. It’s nice to know that dalek still finds fourth generation California natives to be so . . . native.
leigh says December 23, 2013 at 3:23 pm
My people settled in the San Joaquin Valley in the early ’30s. It’s nice to know that dalek still finds fourth generation California natives to be so . . . native.
– See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52269#comments
You are like a well-curated wild animal preserve, leigh. Take joy that you get to serve as the foil in your betters’ cocktail party tales of wonder and enchantment of the savages of the Sierra Nevada. Later, you will play Mr. Kurtz to his Marlow in his tale of failing to redeem the benighted folk from their heteronormative ways.
…cross cultural learning occurs…
I am to Passive Voice as Indiana Jones is to Nazis. Whisky Tango Foxtrot does that phrase mean, anyway?
Venturing into non-urban areas – reminds me of Iowahawk’s “Heart of Redness:” http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2005/01/heart_of_rednes.html
Ignore it, TW. It’s authentic undergraduate lib-speak.
God forbid someone wanting to grow up to be a computer programmer instead of a future of “cutting vines.”
Who forbid? Gee, I wonder what He might have to say on other societal issues…
>God forbid someone wanting to grow up to be a computer programmer instead of a future of “cutting vines.” <
the zero sum game of life according to slapphead
Pajama BoyVine cutter would last about two secondspruning vinesworking on a neural network to optimize a global supply chain.Meanwhile Pajama Boy would starve to death once his mommy’s pantry was empty.
How’s that 404Care enrollment going, DV?
Pretty good actually. Just waiting for the final confirmation from Providence that we’re in. Of course you assume that (a) that won’t happen, or (b) I’m lying, because its very important for your belief system that it be impossible to get insurance. I’ll post a pic/screen shot when it comes through, which you’ll accuse of being photoshop.
bgbear says December 23, 2013 at 11:41 am
If arugula was meant to go on pizza, it would taste like pepperoni.
– See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52269#comments
That’s the thread winner right there.
Just waiting for the final confirmation from Providence that we’re in.
I hope you’re holding your breath. Keep holding it, since Oregon ranks DEAD LAST for people signed up through their exchange.
More people have served as President of the United States than have been able to sign up for insurance in Oregon.
Keep holding that breath.
happyfeet says December 23, 2013 at 11:44 am
ok well also you can sprinkle it as a garnish on any cheese/olive/pesto/fruit plate you set out
– See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52269#comment-1044517
But never on pizza.
>Just waiting for the final confirmation from Providence that we’re in.<
check your insurer so they know you’re enrolled. also get lifelock your data will be hacked.
hellomynamewassteve says December 23, 2013 at 5:55 pm
God forbid someone wanting to grow up to be a computer programmer instead of a future of “cutting vines.”
– See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52269#comment-1044519
They can’t even do that because you like to have your picnick areas “pristine”.
God forbid someone wanting to grow up to be a computer programmer instead of a future of “cutting vines.”
VDH was a professor of classics at California State University, Fresno, and is currently the Martin and Illie Anderson Senior Fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution.
He lives in Fowler, on his grandfather’s homestead not far from my mom.
I note a name change for Dog Vomit, from “is” to “was”. Gee, I wonder why?
Not really, I honestly don’t give a shit, but if it was because he was booted, then I leave the consequences of flouting his host’s hospitality to that host, while I laugh and watch.
He’s fucking boring, Drum. And not a good guest.
How long has it taken? Six weeks?
God forbid someone wanting to grow up to be a computer programmer instead of a future of “cutting vines.”
Oh yes, God forbid
when you can be earning $50k a year as a programmer spend 2K a month on an apartment in the urban area
>its very important for your belief system<
no "believes" involved it is 1 / 0, works/doesn't work. mostly it is zer0-bamacare.
>to be a computer programmer instead of a future of “cutting vines.” <
slapphead thinks he can show up tomorrow @ 8 am and be pruning by vines by 8:05 am
His name “was” steve because his identity has been stolen. Apparently while he was burglarizing the “off to Hawaii” lady from the Farmers ad, somebody took over the Steven B. Thievin account and is now enjoying all his tasty, tasty Obamacare coverage.
>Just waiting for the final confirmation from Providence<
" hello this reggie "lead from behind" love informing you that your enrollment has been lost. please try again. click"
Stealing his identity isn’t going to take anyone very far. He talks big, but I bet his credit cards are maxed out and he has two car payments.
This is of course pretending that everything he said about his income is true. Ha!
I thought ol SteveO was already “minimally insured” on our dimes. I guess even Medicaid doesn’t come easy in Oregon.
The one thing you’d think lefty’s could do well would be to give away stuff.
According to Steve Obamacare is a complete success!
I thought ol SteveO was already “minimally insured” on our dimes.
He is, we called ’em service cases in the olden days.
Just saw Pat Benatar sing We Belong on the Sing off (tv show) and she was still able to belt out a tune.
Think this calls for some Outlaw Blues
Steve, given the amount of bandwidth you’ve used on this site, am I right to assume that you’ve contributed to the proprietor’s fund-raising?
We’ve been over this. I currently pay $1400 / month for a nice plan from Kaiser Permanente. I wouldn’t call that minimally insured or what you called a service in oldens times. But don’t let not knowing what you’re talking about stop you now.
I wouldn’t call that minimally insured
ObamaCare does. You should be paying more so all those homeless you see hanging out in the public parks get free health insurance. (Actual CARE, not so much, but it was never about health care.) If you aren’t, it’s just because you want to see ObamaCare FAIL. Just ask the politicians who have forced it onto the country.
Why do you hate the poor and disadvantaged, Dog Vomit?
Hmm, let’s see. A mundane Java developer in San Fran makes about 120k per year:
http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Java-Developer-l-San-Francisco,-CA.html
And you couldn’t just show up at 8:00 and be writing code at 8:05 either.
One more thing:
We’ve been over this.
And you’ve been proven to be a liar, over and over again, so your claims will be taken with a grain of salt the size of Deimos.
Man, you’re dumb.
And Providence will only cost me around $950. I’ll be paying less by quite a bit.
Just because you say “liar” doesn’t mean anything. It’s a sort of coping mechanism you use when you hear things you don’t want to believe. Where was I ever proven a liar about anything?
Just because you say “liar” doesn’t mean anything.
Except for all of the lies you have been caught in and had shoved down your throat by the various commenters on this very site. I’m one of the people who proved one of those lies, leigh is another, BBH is a third.
Refusing to accept that your lies have been exposed is nothing but a coping mechanism you employ to avoid the reality of the fact the NO ONE HERE BELIEVES YOU. Except for your fellow heterophobe, maybe. He’s allergic to facts, too, so he might believe you.
Try a different-sized shovel.
Something’s not adding up here-Tulelake is in far northern CA, almost on the Oregon border (I’ve been through there many times. I live in SE WA, and have family in Placerville, CA). It is NOT, as far as I know, a wine (or “vine”) growing area. Too high, and too cold. Prof. Hanson lives in central CA. I lived in Visalia before moving to WA. Just down the road from Prof. Hanson. DEFINATELY a “vine” growing area. So, someone (maybe me) is confused.
I’m listening to the new Susan Boyle Christmas cd on .mp3 via the Amazon cloud right now. I’m not sure why. She did a duet with an Elvis track of Oh Come all Ye faithful.
Strabo,
VDH was saying a sissy boy man-child like pajamaboi wouldn’t last five minutes outside his urban comfort zone, and dalekhunter was saying that that wasn’t so, becuse he’s a sissy boy man-child and he survived three whole months among the natives in darkest Siskiyou County.
He probably didn’t intend to cop to being a sissy boy, but maybe he did.
I just realized who pajamaboi is going be when he grows up.
If he grows up.
Weenies get scars and smarter just like anybody else when the crunch comes. They can be taught.
a sissy boy man-child like pajamaboi wouldn’t last five minutes outside his urban comfort zone
justin says don’t let the pants wear you – wear the pants
beliebe it
Only if he lives, Vittorio, only if he lives.
He must have learned that from Cole Porter.
That’s the thing though Ernst. Chaos seems to eat the well prepared and indolent alike and spares only the lucky or the blessed. But it usually toughens up those who make it out alive. Sometimes it just ruins them though. They might well end up as a wreck or a monster.
“justin says don’t let the pants wear you – wear the pants”
The choice regarding pants is pretty binary: Cover your junk or pay the fine and go on the sex offender list. Utilikilts are rebellious pants for people who can’t face that mohawks are a quaint 40 year old haircut now like a greasers pomp.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_v_XmFldezKE/TK1fmGMhyUI/AAAAAAAABK8/EzIEeCocykk/s400/Crazy+Punk+Mohawk+Hairstyles+For+Men.jpg
This is essentially now just a latter day poodle skirt. Rock that ‘tude like your grandpa did.
grandpa?!?
You sure that dude’s not a chick?
Nothing’s more punk rock than a grandpa in a poodle skirt.
Except maybe this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTXuazOL_tw
Man, you’re dumb.
And Providence will only cost me around $950. I’ll be paying less by quite a bit.
– See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52269#comments
You got this through the exchange? What’s the deductable?
Which , of course, is irrelevant because far more people have been forced off their insurance than have successfully signed up.
It is a giant clusterfuck today and that will not improve tomorrow. The premise is flawed. You can look forward to more cascading failures as they try to patch the system.
Failure is built into the system.
Strabo, dalek lives in NYC. Tulare or Tulelake, it’s all hinterlands to him.
Not true! Tulelake doesn’t have vines it’s high mountain desert – its outside work all the same. So no vines but plenty of pigweed and tumble mustard. I led a group of Tulelake teenagers in back country work projects at Lava Beds. I know you’re convinced I was being a dick about it but I really did enjoy the parents and kids and it totally humanized some view points that were really foreign to me.
I imagine even PajamaBoy could learn that those out in the hinterlands know stuff, too, despite the contempt in which he holds them.
“Wow, they have electricity out here? I thought they cooked their buffalo over a fire outside their tipi. And that even looks like a copy of that restaurant I see down the street from the Starbucks where they make that cray-cray macchiatto. And that guy actually looks like he’s reading! Weird…”
Trust us, khunt, they’re laughing at you behind your back, because they are too polite to laugh in your face.
it totally humanized some view points that were really foreign to me.
In other words, you assumed they were sub-human before graces with your presence. How enlightened of you.
it totally humanized some view points that were really foreign to me.
So much elitism packed into one little sentence fragment.
And that guy actually looks like he’s reading! Weird…
Drum,
More truth to this than you know. Aeons ago when I was in college, in order to pay for same one of the jobs I had was valet parker. As was the nature of this job, there was an early rush, a lull, then a second shift of diners. During the lull I frequently read or studied. One night an early group of clowns came out and as I put down my book to fetch their car, the leader of this bunch said, “I didn’t know you guys could read,” whereupon his comrades burst into laughter at his alleged bon mot. To this I just asked if he realized it was, after all, a college town.
Having apparently offended his delicate sensibilities by not living down to his prejudices, I did not get a tip, but the moral of the tale is that the guy above, HMNIS, The Yellow Peril, Dalek, and the like are all cut from the same preening bolt of ineffectuals.
Apparently bumpkins’ view points can only be humanized temporarily; once one has fled from their cootie clouds one may rather quickly regain one’s sense of special snowflaketude over and above the ruralites.
Eingang, I’d have keyed his car, and when he complained, have him look at the back of his valet ticket…
“WE ASSUME NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE SAFETY…”, etc
Eingang Ausfahrt, my ophthalmologist put himself through medical school working in the stockyards in Oklahoma City. He then served his country in Vietnam in a MASH unit, came home started a successful practice and is beloved by all. He was named Ophthalmologist of the Year more than once.
Obviously, he’s a hicktard.
Drum,
The idiot in question wasn’t worth my job particularly as one of the perks was anything off the menu (less booze) at one meal/shift.
Steve, show some class and Christmas cheer – send Jeff just a bit of that cash you’re saving on healthcare coverage. He does provide you with a platform for lively debate.
Leigh,
Obviously, he’s a hicktard.
Indeed he must be – whilst doing some of my training in a major northeast city that will remain nameless it was a constant source of wonder to those who had never been anywhere else how I came to be there as I “talked funny” and came from a place south of the Line of Mason & Dixon.
The true provincials, it seems , are the self-anointed in the big blue cities.
The true provincials, it seems, are the self-anointed in the big blue cities.
This.
Be not ye afraid to call a spayed a spayed.
Plus, tidings!
guinspen
Nice, but did there have to be clowns? :::shudder:::
Christmas Music
Christmasoid Music (skip to about 1:30)
The true provincials, it seems , are the self-anointed in the big blue cities.
Yes, this is true. I lived in some Big Blue Cities over the years and never met so many racists in my life. They talk the talk (when people are listening) but they do not walk the walk.
Dales kinda a douche.
I wonder what he got his phd in?
He hasn’t. He’s working on “an advanced degree” he says. It could be a Bachelor’s degree for all we know.
I wonder what he got his phd in?
The college professors took one look at him, and decided, “Ain’t NOBODY can pile it that high and deep…”
And Khunt’s been trying to pile it ever since. Lifetime Supply(tm), you could say.
It could be a Bachelor’s degree for all we know.
OTOH, an Associate’s is advanced compared to a GED.
I’m pretty sure you have to possess a doctorate to be that big o’ anus.
Phil Robertson has a Masters Degree. VDH has a Doctorate.
That. Is. All.
proggtardia only cares about proggtardia. credentials are to confuse the livs.
“That. Is. All.”
Well, that and the assumption Phil and Victor are superior human beings. ‘Cuz of the credentials.
I’ve run into the same thing about Obama. He’s a constitutional scholar don’t you know…
you forgot columbia, hardvard
I don’t make that assumption. Hell, Obama has a Juris Doctor and he’s a moron.
There are a lot of smart people without credentials. It’s a requirement in some careers, but it doesn’t guarantee the person has any sense.
It’s the gold plan, here:
https://healthplans.providence.org/pdfs/products-services/Documents/sbc/coveror/Standard-Gold-Plan-SBC-Individual-2014-CvrOre.pdf
You sure about that?
Those vine cutters in the hinterlands have comtempt for pajama boy too. You guys have contempt for him as well. Which is odd, frankly. You don’t want the government bossing you around, but your fine in stigmatizing someone like a bay area programmer who lives in an apartment. Which just shows you’re really fascists at heart, as long as it’s your brand of fascism.
It’s not a bad idea, actually. Is there an address to send to?
Programmers are a dime a dozen. Good programmers are not.
AI is the future.
Right. “Stigmatizing” is fascism. And criticizing is bullying. And disagreeing is violence.
There’s a reason why we stigmatize the likes of you, hellomynameispajamaboy — it’s because deep down, there isn’t really any “deep down” to you.
You sure about that?
Facts don’t lie.
What amused me is that Steve and his friends are convinced that Obamacare is working.
the evidence is telling the opposite story.
If it isn’t working now what are the chances of it ever working in the future?
Evidence is white privilege, didn’t you know that?
Facts are racist.
You don’t want the government bossing you around, but your fine in stigmatizing someone like a bay area programmer who lives in an apartment
It is part of the “government bossing {us} around” that presupposes that PajamaBoy — tweeted by Barack’s personal representatives, using his twitter hash tag — is AT ALL representative of “average American” that shows exactly how out of the mainstream the current administration (and their supporters, like you) actually are. Even Dems are distancing themselves from PajamaBoy, and assuming that “everybody knows he’s there to be made fun of”. Sort of a “don’t be like this jackass, get insured” POV.
Like your parents and teachers used to do to you.
Why should I trust my actual enrollment experience when I could trust you instead. How did it go when you signed up recently for individual insurance?
If a programmer looks down on a farmer, then he’s just an elitist asshole. If a farmer looks down on a programmer, well, that’s just very meet and just, right and salutary.
If you want to see the future of farming, you might want to talk to a programmer.
http://www.precisionag.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_agriculture
>If you want to see the future of farming, you might want to talk to a programmer. <
nah you'd talk to a farmer slapphead because the programmer doesn't know what needs to be accomplished and when. you'd have been a leading light in stalin's 1930's ukraine.
If a programmer looks down on a farmer, then he’s just an elitist asshole. If a farmer looks down on a programmer, well, that’s just very meet and just, right and salutary.
I wonder which the world could get along better without, ones and zeroes on a carefully constructed hunk of sand and metal, or food?
Gee, that’s a real poser. Meanwhile, you’re nothing but a poseur.
Why should I trust my actual enrollment experience when I could trust you instead.
Meanwhile the millions who have lost their insurance, and the tens of millions who will lose their insurance in the coming year? Omelets and eggs, right, heterophobe?
>If a farmer looks down on a programmer,<
farmers don't look down at peeps who are good at what they do. pj boys like you on the other hand…
>Why should I trust my actual enrollment experience when I could trust you instead<
did you keep your insurance plan, doctor, deductibles et al?
If I want to see the future of farming, I’ll talk to a my friends who are farmers and ranchers. Or I can listen to the farm report and go to auctions. Since I’ve been doing all those things since I was in pigtails.
A forecast from a computer model is just that. They are useful, but not gospel.
Question: Is steve wearing his onesie whilst pontificating to us heathen peasants?
When you can program your own farming droids, well you’d still be an elitist jackass though no one could starve you.
Though I suspect the farmer would “look down” on you simply for your own smug (and false) sense of superiority over him.
Despite well-functioning state exchange, New Mexico has enrolled . . . just 291 people. “The NM HIX did everything right to sell Obamacare. The people are not buying.”
Why should I trust my actual enrollment experience when I could trust you instead. How did it go when you signed up recently for individual insurance? – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52269#comment-1045042
Anecdotal evidence does not a trend make. you as a director of marketing should know this,
Between 5 and 7 million people have had their insurance cancelled. As of yesterday fewer than a million have actually paid their first premium. This isn’t anecdotal, but verifiable fact. Look. It. Up. Google is your friend.
For somebody so who prides themselves in their superior education and sophistication you certainly lack critical thinking skills.
As a programmer you should know that at some point in the system, when errors are accumulating faster than they can be fixed, you scrap it and start over.
ACA was a poor design and poorer execution.
If you want to see the future of farming, you might want to talk to a programmer. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52269#comment-1045106
No. a geneticist.
He’s not looking down on a programmer, he’s looking down on a self-righteous prig. If said prig were a fellow farmer he would still be a prig and still be looked down on.
I’m looking down on Pajamaboi because how else are you supposed to look at a grown man sitting around in pajamas & sipping hot chocolate while waiting to talk about Obamacare?
And as was pointed out above, even the Dems are saying we’re supposed to be looking down on PajamaBoy, but sure as God made little green apples, here comes Dog Vomit to defend him against all comers.
So he’s so far outside the mainstream that even his own side is throwing DV under the bus, and he’s still screaming, “ThankyousirmayIhaveanother!!!!!” But we’re the ones who don’t get it.
Good thing ObamaCare will cover his “iatrogenic therapeutic mishap” (which is how it will be described in the paperwork.)
If by, “the world”, you mean 7 billion people, then you absolutely need both.
I wouldn’t be so sure about the tens of millions that are going to lose their insurance. You really think the CEOs of Fortune 500s aren’t going to their Human Resources VPs and saying, “Make sure everyone still has insurance?” You really think insurance companies are just going to lose 80% of their customers and go bankrupt. You are SO FUCKING DUMB.
And you should cite a reliable statistic for how many people actually lose their insurance on Jan 1. Because it’s lower than the highest estimate you’ve been able to find.
Bullshit. It’s human nature for a certain percentage of people to look down on those they don’t know, and don’t really understand. Like you pissing on Pajama Boy.
I could have kept my exact plan, doctors, and deductable. It doesn’t go away on Jan 1. However, I was able to switch to a different provider that had previously denied me for pre-existing conditions. I have access to their best network, and the deductibles are low. It also costs $400 less per month.
I know you so very desperately want to believe the Obamacare makes everything worse for everyone. For me, it seems to make things quite a bit better.
Cite a source.
Again, I don’t see the issue. If you leave off the “talking about Obamacare” part, what’s so terrible about a grown man wearing pajamas drinking hot chocolate?
Because CEOs of Fortune 500 companies get to be CEOs of Fortune 500 companies by ignoring incentive structures.
I’m pretty sure that’s the idea. But then, given most of the anecdotes I’ve come across run counter to yours, maybe not, since Obamacare doesn’t seem able to deliver on the cost savings they promised. No surprise there. On the other hand, there’s always If you like your plan, you can keep it, so I imagine in the end the insurance industry will resign itself to regulatory capture.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/11/12/the-obamacare-exchange-scorecard-around-100000-enrollees-and-five-million-cancellations/
I don’t know why you demand people cite sources for you to not read.
You really think insurance companies are just going to lose 80% of their customers and go bankrupt. You are SO FUCKING DUMB.
When it’s cheaper to dump their employees onto the exchanges and pay the fine, several groups have said between 80-100 million will lose their employer-provided insurance plans, which no longer coomply with your 404 Care. Good thing no one promised them they could keep their insurance, right? Over and over and over and over and over and over again.
And you should cite a reliable statistic for how many people actually lose their insurance on Jan 1. Because it’s lower than the highest estimate you’ve been able to find.
Not at all. There are several million people who have ALREADY LOST their insurance, no need to specify only those who actually expire on January 1. Look it up. It’s been in all the papers.
I could have kept my exact plan, doctors, and deductable.
And since that was more expensive that the policy you were told you could keep, you decided for something cheaper? Gosh, sounds like you got lied to, as well. And (and this is the important bit) YOU ARE DEFENDING THE LIE. Funny how that works.
Cite a source.
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/11/obamacare-finally-gets-real-for-america-at-least-35-million-health-insurance-policies-cancelled-99288.html
“The Obama administration insists nobody will lose coverage as a result of cancellation notices going out to millions of people. At least 3.5 million Americans have been issued cancellations, but the exact number is unclear. Associated Press checks find that data is unavailable in a half the states.”
3.5 million down, and only half the states reporting any data at all. Meanwhile Obama and his lickspittles (id est, YOU) are pretending that no one has lost their insurance at all. It was in all the papers, just last month, reported by AP, and it went viral. I repeat, look it up.
what’s so terrible about a grown man wearing pajamas drinking hot chocolate?
The fact that this out-of-touch jackass you are defending thinks that PajamaBoy is representative of “regular people” is what is terrible. That has been made clear by the fact that even Dems are making fun of PajamaBoy as “someone you DON’T want to be like”.
Think of Goofus and Gallant. Which do you suppose PajamaBoy would be better portrayed as? And given that PB is being tossed under the bus by his own party, why are you still defending him? Have you not gotten the latest talking points? Still defending an incredibly unpopular (and failing) policy, and now defending the new “Julia”?
And you wonder why we laugh…
Oh look: Projection.
Not when everyone is mandated to buy it, you fucking pinhead. That does not mean their employers are going to continue to provide it for them. Or, “If you like your plan, too fucking bad. Now get your ass in the Obamacare line.”
Shorter Slappy :”WHY WON’T YOU LOVE PAJAMA BOY, YOU MONSTERS!!??!”
Just fuck off, Slappy. For The Children™!
Stupid racist Rethuglican CBO just wants homos and babies to die, no doubt. Haven’t they listened to Slappy’s story?
However, I was able to switch to a different provider that had previously denied me for pre-existing conditions.
A provider denied you for a pre-existing condition, but will now cover you ?
That is among the biggest piles of BS you have left here. Your insurance company might have denied you, but the only reason a “provider” would “deny” you if is said “provider” was unable to treat your alleged pre-existing condition (lack of organized cerebral electrical activity is hard to treat, after all).
Cite a source.
Here ya go, Steve.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/12/20/utter-chaos-white-house-exempts-millions-from-obamacares-insurance-mandate-unaffordable-exchanges/
Critical thinking skills, Steve. Work on em.
I have personally never known a grown man who wears pajamas. Grown men wear boxers and a tee shirt.
lack of organized cerebral electrical activity is hard to treat, after all
I hear some good things from a guy in Europe I heard about, a Victor F. Stein, I think it was, but the phone line was a bit garbled…
“Grown men wear boxers and a tee shirt.”
If there are other people around.
Steve, top left, a yellow button that says “Donate.” Takes credit cards, pay pal, etc.
You ever run a business? Of course not. Well allow me to let you in on a little secret. It doesn’t really work to tell your employees “fuck you” every chance you get. They tend to leave and take all their valuable knowledge and experience with them, and then you’re stuck hiring someone new, who isn’t going to be nearly as productive for quite some time.
So with high skilled workers, the only way they’re going to get dumped is if employers jack up their salary so that they can buy from the state exchanges and not take a hit on their take-home pay. Which, at the end of the day, everyone would prefer. The employers would rather be out of the insurance provider business, and employees would rather have more options and be able to make a more individual choice of coverage.
Now with low skilled workers, you have two choices:
1. You keep the current system, where the federal government mandates coverage (you like that?) for FTEs, and employers get pretty good at keeping people to 25 hours per week so they’re not FTE.
2. It’s cheaper for the employer to pay the fine, fuck the workers, they buy from the individual market, where they get heavy subsidies.
But let’s really talk about your alternative. Your alternative is that in the free market no employer is forced to offer insurance, and no insurer is forced to offer coverage to anyone they don’t want, and you have 100 million people uninsured. But hey, freedom.
Or it might only be 500,000
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/12/20/212275/only-500000-people-with-cancelled.html
The Obama admin is probably lowballing. Your team is certainly going for the highest numbers they can find. You willing to wait until Jan 1 and actually see how many people are uninsured compared to Jan 1 of 2013? The real interesting numbers to compare will be the number of insured on March 31 2014 compared with March 1 of 2013. You sticking by your prediction that there will be fewer people insured at the end of March?
Again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. My current plan with Kaiser is $1400+ per month. In Jan it would go up some amount < 10%, LIKE IT HAS EVERY YEAR FOR THE LAST DECADE. However, entirely because of the ACA, I was able to move to Providence, which is great coverage, and is a savings of $400. In my case, I was actually not lied to. In my case, it worked just like promised.
You know, regular people live in Seattle, San Francisco, LA, New York, and Chicago too. This is really the crux of the problem. You think regular people are only people who look and think like you, and you’re actually a minority.
I misspoke (which Drum will claim is proof of me being caught in a lie). I meant an insurance provider, not a healthcare provider. Providence – the insurer – wouldn’t take me because of a pre-existing condition until Obamacare. I was not trying to indicate that an actual healthcare provided wouldn’t work with me. Sorry for the confusion.
“You ever run a business?”
steve wastes our time with bullshit credentials that serve as a mask for dumb theory that is already unraveling.
“Or it might only be 500,000″
Yeah, but it ain’t.
” Again, you don’t know what you’re talking about”
“see Laffer curve” LOL!
“You know, regular people live in Seattle, San Francisco, LA, New York, and Chicago too. This is really the crux of the problem. You think regular people are only people who look and think like you, and you’re actually a minority. ”
No this is just more steve making up stuff for his opponents to think.
You keep bringing up the Laffer Curve – what do you think I got wrong there?
You ever run a business? Of course not. Well allow me to let you in on a little secret. It doesn’t really work to tell your employees “fuck you” every chance you get.
It doesn’t really work to pay more than you have to, under any circumstances. Nice job at projection, by the way. I’ve run several businesses, and owned one or two. I’m retired now, after five different careers, and I’ve lost track of how many actual jobs that don’t count as careers.
Or it might only be 500,000…Your team is certainly going for the highest numbers they can find.
It’s not the highest numbers that can be found, it’s the number of cancellations that were sent out. Only half the states reporting, too. For instance, here in California, 1.1 million people had cancellation letters sent out, so that disproves your “500,000” number in just this one State. And the state exchange has been (as predicted) a total disaster, with only 50,000 signups, which means that there are TWICE as many cancellations than the Obama admin is claiming, just here in California, and that’s the NET number.
So your 500,000 is nothing but another lie put out by Obama that you buy, hook, line, and sunk.
regular people live in Seattle, San Francisco, LA, New York, and Chicago too.
And even they are being told to not be like PajamaBoy. You keep forgetting that part. Facts getting tougher and tougher to ignore, but if you squinch your eyes up REALLY TIGHT, you can keep making dumb comments like that.
I misspoke (which Drum will claim is proof of me being caught in a lie).
Just like Obama misspoke. Keep thinking that. I’ll make sure you get a real blindfold when the time comes.
The real interesting numbers to compare will be the number of insured on March 31 2014 compared with March 1 of 2013. You sticking by your prediction that there will be fewer people insured at the end of March?
And when the employer mandate kicks in? You still willing to stand by your prediction that companies will willingly pay more for insurance policies than they would for whatever minor fine there was? Interesting how Obama kicked that down the road twice, so as to delay things until after the midterm elections. Nothing like being able to lie to people until after they make their choice, then it’s another case of “You fucked up. You trusted us.”
How many employers do you think will spend more money rather than less money? 150 million people getting insurance that way, and you blindly accept that Obama is TOTALLY SWEARSIES that “this time no one will lose their insurance”? Again?
However, entirely because of the ACA, I was able to move to Providence, which is great coverage
Interesting that you dodge the point of the question. Are you claiming that you got the same insurance — coverage, co-pays, deductible, out-of-area, et alia — that you had before your old policy got cancelled, for less? And I also have serious doubts about your alleged subsidy, since you (allegedly being a business owner in the top 1%, according to other of your lies) would not qualify for any subsidies, just as I didn’t when I ran my own business. So if you qualify, you are lying about how much you make, and if you aren’t, then you cannot have been getting the same amount of insurance for less, since the increased regulatory costs have not yet been added in. Liar either way; loser both ways.
Not to mention the fact that the 404Care site STILL isn’t working. To every thing there is a season, spin, spin, spin.
“You keep bringing up the Laffer Curve – what do you think I got wrong there? ”
What do you think you got right? Lol. Your ignorance is transparent.
I miss Christopher Hitchens.
I meant an insurance provider, not a healthcare provider.
Gee, I wonder if those 40 million people Obama destroyed the health insurance industry over actually had access to health care?
*shakes Magic-8 Ball*
“It is decidedly so”
Yeah, that was a crucial distinction, don’t ya think?
It doesn’t really work to tell your employees “fuck you” every chance you get. They tend to leave and take all their valuable knowledge and experience with them…
What you say may be true for some mom and pop outfit with low skill employees, but, hypothetically, if Boeing and Lockheed Martin all drop employee coverage, the employes are not all going running to United Technologies because there aren’t enough jobs to go around. Same is true of any large industrial base. It is also interesting that you think a company doing what it has to do to stay in business “fucking” employees.
Sorry for the confusion.
We are sorry you are confused too, but if you could stick to facts and not just make stuff up, you wouldn’t have this problem.
For $5K/year less. With no subsidy. It’s a healthcare miracle! All hail the Lightbringer!
Pablo,
Even more of a miracle, he, apparently, is the only person in Oregon whose rates are going down with Obamacare.
By a third, no less.
So a couple questions / observations on this.
First, do you support employers being required to provide health insurance? Would you prefer a world where there were no mandate for employers to provide health insurance? If that’s the case, then you can’t really be upset about employers making a business decision to drop coverage. In fact, you should view this as a step in the right direction, doncha think?
For me personally, I would rather see employment decoupled from health insurance. Employers don’t really want to be in the business of providing health insurance, and employees don’t really want to be limited to just the plans their employer chooses to offer. Much better would be employers simply subsidizing whatever plans the employees choose from the market.
Now, back to your original statement quoted above. Let’s say you have an employee that your paying 80k / year plus benefits. And, you’ve determined this is the compensation you need to provide to keep turnover acceptably low (because turnover is a cost too). And now you come along and say, “We’re dropping all your health insurance.” You’ve effectively given everyone a pay cut. If it were that simple *you would have already done it*. So now you’re paying below the market value for them employees, and you can expect turnover to increase. So to keep that from happening, you would either have to (1) offer health insurance again, or (2) pay them more so that they can obtain their own insurance and keep the same amount of take-home pay.
How do you see it working any other way?
They tend to leave and take all their valuable knowledge and experience with them…
With unemployment as high as it is, and underemployment even higher, not to mention the CPR (Civilian Participation Rate) at its lowest since Jimmeh the Rabbit-Killer (which is one of the two main reasons that the unemployment rate isn’t being reported as 10+%, the other being the reformulation — aka “lying” — that the admin is doing), there are anywhere from 4 to 40 applicants for any job opening, depending on the industry. So most of those large companies that use a lot of non-skilled labor pools — cashiers, burger flippers, drivers, etc. — can cut the benefits package, and know that if they lose some workers, it would take a week to replace them all with people who would be happy to accept any job, while those newly unemployed won’t even be able to apply for unlimited unemployment insurance, since they VOLUNTARILY QUIT. And would have to start at new-hire wages wherever they end up, or lose out to the new college graduate with the MBA that doesn’t have the family, and is willing to accept the smaller package.
You were saying? (Is there ANYTHING you can get right?)
1. My old policy never got canceled.
2. I’ve provided all the links in the past. I’m not going to dig them out again. The Kaiser plan is $1400 / month. You can go through coveroregon.com yourself with a family of 4, ages 43, 42, 14, and 11, no one smokes, and an income of $240k. Select the Providence Gold plan.
You can look this shit up. These are actual numbers offered by actual insurers, not the comfort food punditry you’d rather consume.
And now you come along and say, “We’re dropping all your health insurance.”
You forgot the second part of that sentence. Since the company will no longer be making its own payments to the insurance companies, they can then turn around, and give that extra money to the employees (since the cost for labor includes that cost, but won’t afterwards), they can just as easily say, “We’re dropping your group health policies, but here’s the money that you have been earning which been going to the insurance companies, as was reflected on the check stubs every week. You are all making more money to go out and decide which policy serves you best.”
You really don’t understand how business payrolls work, do you?
I’ll ask again, is there ANYTHING you can get right?
I’m prepared to believe his rate is going down because he can no longer be “discriminated” against because of pre-existing conditions.
There were bound to some lucky duckies. Quite a few, actually.
Drum, that’s exactly what I said. With low skilled workers, you can treat them about as badly as you can imagine, and then complain about how no one who gets hired is really worth a shit. This is exactly what’s happening today.
Do you want their company to be forced to offer them health insurance? Because if the answer is “no”, then you shouldn’t see a problem with their company dropping them and saving a buck.
You keep driving around this.
With high-skilled workers, the story is different.
1. My old policy never got canceled.
Lie. You no longer have it. You prove so by saying you now have a “new” policy.
And you are still dodging the question. “What’s true is already so. Admitting it doesn’t make it worse.”
Which I have no problem with. I’d rather see them pay the employees more, and the employees go pick their own plan. This isn’t failure in my book.
Like that’s ever stopped you from demanding others repeat past information.
So, how about you cite your source?
See if you can spot the difference between these two statements:
1. My insurer sent me a cancelation notice and I had to get new coverage elsewhere.
2. I elected to get new coverage elsewhere, and cancel my existing plan. My insurer would have been happy to keep selling me my existing plan. I was not required to look elsewhere. I wanted to switch.
Do you see the difference? #2 is my situation.
You shouldn’t call something a lie just because you don’t understand it.
Do you want their company to be forced to offer them health insurance?
Forced by whom, the government? Or actions of the free market, wherein they have to keep up with the Joneses?
Do you think the government should have the authority to force people to buy a product offered by a private corporation? Should the government be able to force you to buy a gun? Should they be able to force you to buy cauliflower? Solar panels? Where does it end, and how is this not fascism?
With high-skilled workers, the story is different.
You mean like doctors? I hear they will soon be considered government employees, forced to accept pittance wages or lose their license…
You’re okay with this, I have no doubt.
So now you’re paying below the market value for them employees, and you can expect turnover to increase.
You really don’t get it, do you ? Back to the hypothetical, the clerks at Boeing might be able to go to something outside the sector, but the specialized airframe machinists aren’t all going over to Sikorsky. The just plain machinists aren’t all going running to John Deere or Ford as there is not an infinite capacity for other industries to absorb these skilled workers.
Drum – simple question. Should government regulations require employers of a certain size to provide health insurance to full time employees?
It’s a yes or no question.
2. I elected to get new coverage elsewhere, and cancel my existing plan. My insurer would have been happy to keep selling me my existing plan. I was not required to look elsewhere. I wanted to switch.
Do you see the difference? #2 is my situation.
So your policy was cancelled, but not cancelled-cancelled.
Is there ANYTHING you can get right?
They why doesn’t Boeing just pay them less right now? If they’re making 80k, why not drop it to 70k or 60k or 50k? Do you really think they’re being paid more than needed to keep turnover low?
Should government regulations require employers of a certain size to provide health insurance to full time employees?
Should government regulations require employers of ANY size to provide health insurance to full time employees? Should government regulations require employers of any size to provide free-lunches to the children of full time employees? Should government regulations require employers of any size to provide subsidized air travel to the families of full time employees?
Where does it end?
Your turn to answer the question.
Which I have no problem with.
Millions of people losing their employer-provided health insurance, and you have no problem with it.
Got it. No wonder you are so blase about the tens of millions this will be happening to in the near future.
You didn’t answer the question:
Should government regulations require employers of a certain size to provide health insurance to full time employees? – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52269#comment-1045240
Yes or no.
So wait, when you talk about 5 million people who’ve had their insurance canceled, you are including in that people who voluntarily (and excitedly) purchased different insurance and canceled their existing plan? You see no difference in dropping your insurer, and your insurer dropping you?
Because if that’s what you’re saying, you’re flashing your stupid again, and it’s unseemly.
They why doesn’t Boeing just pay them less right now?
a) Previously negotiated contracts (unlike progressives, some people follow laws).
b) Contrary of your Monopoly guy concept of business executives, the days of the robber barons are gone. Also try actually reading Drumwasters comments above.
Your density makes depleted uranium look like swiss cheese.
“They why doesn’t Boeing just pay them less right now? If they’re making 80k, why not drop it to 70k or 60k or 50k? Do you really think they’re being paid more than needed to keep turnover low? ”
http://freebeacon.com/boeing-to-partly-move-production-out-of-washington-state-following-union-vote/
Dumb dumb.
“You didn’t answer the question:”
It’s a stupid and irrelevant question steve and a squirrel.
I did answer the question. The government does not have the right to interfere with a private contract between individuals, only to enforce it in case of a dispute as a supposedly neutral third party. The power to do so, yes, but there is nothing in the Constitution that gives the Federal Government that authority.
Health care policies are BY DEFINITION limited to activity that occurs within a given State (you cannot buy health insurance from an out-of-state agency, like you can with auto insurance), and does not fall under the Interstate Commerce power of Congress. Which is why John Roberts had to rewrite the law to make it a “tax”, despite the fact that no one in the government ever argued that it was to be considered a tax, and the legislative history of the act specifically precluded such interpretation.
Whether or not they have the power to do so is another question, and considering the ongoing rewriting of the legislation for political gain, AND that Obama and his lickspittles closed down the government over the mandate they immediately postponed without legislative approval.
ObamaCare as it exists today is not the law that was passed by Congress, waiver after waiver, postponement after postponement, coupled with the abysmal failure that the rollout of the federal exchange has been. That doesn’t even include the complete unpopularity of the law, and the death spiral it will be degenerating into since the young people are avoiding it in droves.
You have several questions you are currently dodging.
Care to finally answer any of them? Or shall I just go back to pitying your parents?
So wait, when you talk about 5 million people who’ve had their insurance canceled, you are including in that people who voluntarily (and excitedly) purchased different insurance and canceled their existing plan?
No, I am talking about people who have had their plans that they wanted to keep cancelled out from under them. Involuntarily and unwillingly. Like I said, stories from all over have been in the news.
http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_24248486/obamacares-winners-and-losers-bay-area
Ask Canute how well laws to stop reality work out.
You get that my plan with Kaiser *was not one of those plans*. Right?
You don’t think (a) health insurance couldn’t be part of those negotiated contracts?
And (b) businesses also aren’t in the business of paying employees vastly more than they need to just to be good people. Your argument is logically inconsistent, but it seems to be:
1. An 80k employee is probably being paid more than their market value.
2. Because of this, you can probably just drop their insurance and not increase turnover because they can’t leave and get a job elsewhere.
You know who you’ll lose if you just drop insurance on your skilled labor force? You’ll lose your very best, most productive, most innovative employees – because those are the ones with the most options and for which there is the most demand. This is business 101, sir.
Drum, since you believe the federal government lacks the authority to regulate employer provided insurance – why are you upset about employers freely choosing to drop insurance for their low skilled employees?
“Drum, since you believe the federal government lacks the authority to regulate employer provided insurance – why are you upset about employers freely choosing to drop insurance for their low skilled employees?”
It only occurs because of the creation of the exchanges allows them to essentially dump employees on medicaid rather than negotiate for expensive O-care compliant plans.
In other words, it’s not really a free decision at all but a result of government meddling just as employer provided health care was prior meddling and the HMO modification was and adjustment of that prior meddling and the meddling always makes things worse.
You get that my plan with Kaiser *was not one of those plans*. Right?
You get that 3-5 million people who DIDN’T want their policies cancelled — the ones who relied on “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan – period” — are still out there, and they were just the first ripple of the tsunami to follow?
why are you upset about employers freely choosing to drop insurance for their low skilled employees?
Because it was government interference that made them choose the less expensive option, punishing people who don’t deserve to be forced to subsidize people they never met.
You don’t think (a) health insurance couldn’t be part of those negotiated contracts?
You have no idea how payrolls work. Got it. Yet you think that the government should be allowed to set terms of a private contract, and still have it be referred to as a “free” market.
So yet another question you will dodge. Why do price controls never perform the way the imposers of said control intended? (Specifically price floors in this context, but ANY form of external price control.)
Take your time. I’ll be over here laughing.
You know who you’ll lose if you just drop insurance on your skilled labor force? You’ll lose your very best, most productive, most innovative employees – because those are the ones with the most options and for which there is the most demand. This is business 101, sir
And when those “very best, most productive, most innovative” employees walk away from their (already existing) job, can’t get unemployment insurance because they quit, and go looking for other employment for jobs that are already filled, and realize that all of the other companies aren’t offering group plan insurance policies, either, because they also will have dropped their policies, in order to stay fiscally competitive with those other companies, what then?
You really think they will be better off without employment than having to go make choices on their own?
And what about the tens of millions of people who have had their hours cut from full time, so they won’t be eligible for any policies anyway? 25% paycut and loss of health insurance (called “underemployment”, in case you bother to look up what I mean), all because Obama needed something to talk about while running for office.
http://i.imgur.com/Q7ym8sS.jpg
An infinitive number of assertion monkeys banging away at an infinite number of type writers for all eternity would still only manage to produce an assertion.
infinite number
I really really do not like this new autocorrect thing…
Except it’s probably only 500,000 – because many people who had their existing plan “canceled”, without taking any action at all, are automatically enrolled in an ACA complaint plan. BTW, this happened before the ACA. More than one year I remember Kaiser saying “We no longer offer X. You can choose between Q, Y, and Z. If you do nothing, you’ll automatically be in Z.”
Like utility rates?
I guess you’ve never been a top performer. Here’s how it works. ACME Software does something to screw it’s workforce. Top Programmer calls up a headhunter and says, “get me out of here”. Headhunter finds Top Programmer 3-5 companies that would love to have him/her. Top Programmer goes on interviews, gets new job. Top Programmer goes in to ACME and says, “I quit.”
The new job:
1. Offers health insurance directly, or
2. Pays employee enough to cover the cost of buying on the individual market, while still taking home the same or more as ACME.
ACME now has to try to hire someone to replace Top Programmer, which is hard since they’re not competitive any more and are getting a rep as a bad place to work.
This happens all the time. It’s really shocking that you have no idea how it works.
Except it’s probably only 500,000
More than twice that number had their policies cancelled, just here in California. That does not include the other 56 States Obama has visited.
Another lie.
Like utility rates?
Simply providing another example of why price controls always fail doesn’t answer the question asked.
ACME Software does something to screw it’s workforce. Top Programmer calls up a headhunter and says, “get me out of here”. Headhunter finds Top Programmer 3-5 companies that would love to have him/her
Except that those 3-5 companies aren’t providing health insurance policies, either. (You seem to be arguing that providing insurance doesn’t cost the employer anything, which just proves your ignorance. Yet again.)
And there will (according to your logic) be LOTS of Top Programmers out there looking for other jobs, too, and that means a glut of supply with very little demand, since the companies already have people filling those slots.
What happens when supply exceeds demand?
Business 101, sir.
I see why Eingang Ausfahrt’s point about mobility flew right past him. It seems people who work for a living don’t really work –only the thinkers do.
Everything flies right past him because he is an idiot. I am also getting tired of the Karnack act of telling us all what we think instead of asking us. No one is a mind reader, steve.
Um, try to follow this. They are paying for health insurance today. Let’s say that’s $500 / employee / month that the employer pays (and the employee is picking up the rest). They can do one of three things in the new world order:
1. Just pocket that $500 and tell the employee to fuck off (and deal with higher turn over and a loss of their best talent)
2. Use that same $500 to offer an employer health plan – which most will do.
3. Pay the employee an extra $500 / month for them to get their own plan on the exchange.
It’s a lie (there, I said it), that as of Jan 1, 2015, *no employers will offer health insurance as a benefit* and all employees will be forced into the individual market. And for the small percentage of employers that do drop health insurance altogether, it’s also a lie that none of them will pass that money on to the employees to buy their own insurance.
Why do you hate addition?
Which was happening like crazy before Obamacare. Like this one from 1993!
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/02/06/business/company-news-bank-of-america-to-cut-full-time-tellers-jobs.html
They are paying for health insurance today.
So was the company that is cancelling its group health insurance policy. You neglect the obvious, but I’m too busy pitying your parents to let you slide with it.
Why do you suppose that only ONE company will be cancelling, when even the CBO is expecting at least half of the companies out there will be doing so, and other experts are expecting more?
Why do you think that if those other companies are already offering health care insurance (that has suddenly become much more expensive, thanks to the Cadillac tax imposed) need anyone given that they are offering all these extras as a part of their compensation package, headhunters be damned?
Why do you think that your ideal example is either typical or average? And if the VERY BEST PROGRAMMER ON THE PLANET can do this, will the 2nd best also be able to do so? The 100th best, the 10,000th best, or even those down where you hang out? How far down do you think that phenomenon will extend before you run into a guy trying to raise a family in an area where cost of living is already 25% higher than the national average (I’ve lived in Mountain View and Sunnyvale, so don’t try to pretend)?
What happens when all those programmers quit and can’t find new jobs? Even Starbucks doesn’t need that many baristas…
You have no idea how the real world works, so please stop pretending.
2. Use that same $500 to offer an employer health plan – which most will do.
This completely ignores both business realities and human nature. Which the CBO (that radical right wingers group) has lowballed at not less than 20 million people will lose their employer-provided health insurance, which does not include the number of people cut to part-time, which means they won’t be eligible anyway. Add to the millions under the individual mandate, and you have quite a chunk.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/11/14/insurance-cancellations-just-beginning
But reality is ALWAYS far worse than government speculators come up with, and the administration knew, all along, while lying to your face. And you keep defending him, like any beaten whore does for her pimp.
“But he says he really loves me…”
Team O*burble* hammers hardly for us, melodized!
Some weirdo named Kathleen Sebelius said in 2010 that up to 93 million people would lose their insurance, but what does she know? It’s not like she has any control over ObamaCare or anything…
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/31/obama-officials-in-2010-93-million-americans-will-be-unable-to-keep-their-health-plans-under-obamacare/
Good thing HHS isn’t a Department involved with health insurance, right, DV? Otherwise you’d be shown to be just another useful idiot.
Because in certain markets there’s more demand for talent than supply. In many high-skill positions, there are openings that have been there for months because the company can’t find anyone qualified to fill them. Low skill is a different story.
And you’re again neglecting that if an insurance company drops a certain plan because it’s not ACA compliant, they won’t replace it with an ACA compliant plan, and the company will simply roll employees into those. Which is also why those 5 million individual who are “dropped” now aren’t really “dropped”. More like migrated to a compliant plan.
You are predicting that less people will be insured on Jan 1 2014 than Jan 1 2013. And less will be insured on March 31 2014 than March 31 2013. We can just wait and see who is right. This isn’t going to be hard to know.
My point was that when you mess with employee compensation in a negative way, you lose your best and most valuable employees first, disproportionately weakening your firm.
It doesn’t ignore human nature. Businesses balance compensation against other goals. Paying to much is a problem. Not paying enough is a problem. You think companies can just cut, say, 10% of compensation with no negative repercussions which shows that you don’t understand realities. Because if that were the case, they already would have done it.
Every time you cite Forbes as a credible source, God kills a kitten.
I’m thinking it is quite possible that steve doesn’t understand the differences between individual and group insurance plans.
I hope he also bought Whole Life life insurance instead of term. Su-cker.
From that very same “article” –
“They [employers] have to buy new plans,” Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber told Ryan Lizza, “but they will be pretty similar to what they had before. It will essentially be relabeling.”
Which Forbes then refutes with made-up numbers and prognostication.
They probably used a software modeling program for that.
Because in certain markets there’s more demand for talent than supply.
Only until all those people pissed off at losing their insurance hit the labor markets.
Or maybe they will look around and realize that quitting the job they already have isn’t worth the hassle. Because they won’t be the only one looking if they take that step off the cliff.
Every time you cite Forbes as a credible source, God kills a kitten.
Ignoring the facts reported is quite the style. How about the videotape of that right-wing wackadoodle, Kathy Sebelius, and that bastion of people who hate health care over at HHS. We should believe you rather than the people who do this for a living?
Pull the other one.
You think companies can just cut, say, 10% of compensation with no negative repercussions which shows that you don’t understand realities. Because if that were the case, they already would have done it
They weren’t forced to do so by government regulations before.
Oh, right, you forgot that all those non-grandfathered policies, didn’t you? What does HHS know about ObamaCare anyway?
“Mid-range”… I wonder what the minimax numbers were. And we all know how well government planners can predict how the economy will react when massive regulations hit, right?
Are you ever going to answer the questions you keep dodging?
… and be rolled into ACA compliant plans. You keep missing that part.
Which questions? You spout so much half formed nonsense that I can possibly respond to all of it. But ask away, and I’ll answer.
and be rolled into more expensiveACA compliant plans.
FTFY. Answer the question, Dog Vomit.
Which questions?
They’ve all been asked in this thread, and within the last 24 hours. Did you suffer a blow to the head?
Mine was $400 less expensive.
More ObamaCare successes…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/12/19/think-your-state-has-obamacare-problems-theyre-nothing-compared-to-guam/
But what does an insurance company know about insurance, we should all listen to Slappy and be grateful we’re still allowed to breathe, right?
Mine was $400 less expensive.
This was one of the questions, and you are STILL dodging it. Same plan, same coverage, same doctors/hospitals, same deductible, same co-pay, annual/lifetime maximums and all the rest? Or different, and therefore you are comparing apples to pineapples, and then expecting it to mean anything?
Um, no, I switched from Kaiser to Providence. Here’s the delta
Higher deductible – from $0 for Kaiser to $1300 / individual, and $2600 for the whole family on Providence. Waived for most things (regular dr visits, labs, prescriptions). Even if I max it out, I’m still saving money.
Lower co-pay.
Larger network of doctors (Providence EPO network)
No referral required to see a specialist.
Neither plan had lifetime or annual maximums.
So it’s better, for less, no matter how you look at it.
I see why Eingang Ausfahrt’s point about mobility flew right past him. It seems people who work for a living don’t really work –only the thinkers do.
HMNWS, The Yellow Peril, Dalek, et al. are unable to comprehend any frame of reference but their own. They perceive the majority of people as but morlocks, and the notion that Joe Line Mechanic at Boeing can’t just call a “head hunter” to get him a job at Lockheed therefore escapes him.
More like a liar. Of course, he seems to think his lies will fool anyone so perhaps he’s also an idiot.
…and yes, he does seem to be debating with what the voices in his head tell him rather than what anyone else here actually writes.
That’s because there are more than one “steve”. He is a script and the “steve” one the previous shift gives a lousy debriefing before he heads to Starbucks.
baffle them with bs isn’t working i think. steve try nespresso. it is off the grid. real greeny.
““Mid-range”… I wonder what the minimax numbers were. And we all know how well government planners can predict how the economy will react when massive regulations hit, right? -”
The census takers lied about the employment rate. The IRS lied about targeting conservative groups. State lied about a Youtube video causing the 4th of July attacks in Benghazi,. Justice lied about prosecuting the black panthers in Philadelphia who were stalking polling places, and about gun running “not really a sting” operations on the border. Obama lied about being able to keep your insurance plan and doctor. But Forbes is the one with the credibility problem.
See Laffer curve. QED lol. Also look into game theory.