Search






Jeff's Amazon.com Wish List

Archive Calendar

November 2024
M T W T F S S
 123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
252627282930  

Archives

“Obama personally lobbied on filibuster rule change”

Because you can’t spell “screw your separation of powers” without “do as I say, or else so help me, I’ll have Oprah call you racists.”

And before you start in with your, “uh, those letters don’t match up, Jeff,” let me remind you that grammar, punctuation, and the alphabet itself are really nothing more than forms of institutionalized slavery meant to keep certain people in intellectual chains. It’s micro-oppressive aggressive racism meant to block the equal validity of all ideas, even the ones so stupid on their face that, were truly truly stupid people able to articulate a thought, they’d point to these stupid ideas and say, “Jesus. That thar’s so stupid it makes me wanna go pee pee.” Unless, that is, the idea comes from some antiquated, misogynistic, and discredited form of Enlightenment-informed set of epistemological assumptions. Because those mustn’t be tolerated at all. For the sake of tolerance.

So be careful, or we’ll have to call you grammar absolutists and free-form denialists racists, too.

234 Replies to ““Obama personally lobbied on filibuster rule change””

  1. RI Red says:

    I guess we can agree that the mask is well and truly off. Wonder what steve thinks about this?

  2. McGehee says:

    Channeling hellomyteamislosing:

    “‘Mask’ is dog-whistle for hood, so of course you’re upset about it coming off because it means you can’t wear your hood anymore you raaaaacist!”

  3. geoffb says:

    Hood = bad

    Hoodie = good

    Right?

  4. palaeomerus says:

    I’m tempted to wear a hoodie, a padded boxing head gear, covered with some barbed 1/16 inch iron plates as head gear, act crippled, and try to lure out people playing the knock-out game. I’ll call it the ‘watch this asshole fuck hp his hand really bad’ game.

  5. palaeomerus says:

    But your honor, it’s not my fault he punched my hidden head armor that had fish hooks all over it. It was funny as HELL but it wasn’t my fault.

  6. bgbear says:

    in law it is called attractive nuisance

  7. palaeomerus says:

    So my armored head is like a swimming pool in a yard that kids sneak into and get hurt? I’m liable for tort caused when I anticipate getting attacked with malice? Huh. Whatever. I’m Batman.

  8. palaeomerus says:

    I put this on the wrong thread previously…sorry.

    Was Reid always such a trooper or did they put a wire in his head? I mean they can’t put a wire in your head that’s sci-fi but I’ve never seen a naturally occurring toad who hops so good. They must have some SERIOUS dirt on that man. Otherwise how do you get the head of the senate to castrate the senate all just before he’s at risk of losing it? – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52028#comment-1036931

  9. bgbear says:

    Oh, yes I was 100% serious and took your plan as a completely real plan.

    Call me Mr. Literal.

  10. bgbear says:

    I always think of Reid as the character Dick Smothers played in “Casino”. I do believe the character was based on Reid and I bet* Reid has a lot of “history” with the mob.

    *hee, hee “bet” get it?

  11. SBP says:

    Remember that scene in one of the Godfather movies where they turned the Nevada Senator?

    Yep.

  12. SBP says:

    I see via Ace that Obama is rolling out the Thanksgiving propaganda, too.

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/345229.php

  13. Jim in KC says:

    I could have sworn we had a legislative body and a legislative process in this country. I think it might even have been written down somewhere…

  14. hellomynameissteve says:

    Why is this an issue?

  15. leigh says:

    Court packing, comes to mind steve.

    The president is a meddler.

  16. hellomynameissteve says:

    Since when did “filling vacancies” become “court packing”?

  17. Scott Hinckley says:

    Why is this an issue?

    Because, as one Senator said:

    “If the right of free and open debate is taken away from the minority party, and the millions of Americans who ask us to be their voice, I fear that the partisan atmosphere in Washington will be poisoned to the point where no one will be able to agree on anything.”

    Senator Barack Obama, 2005.

  18. Jim in KC says:

    He can appoint all his Marxist buddies, steve. And presto! Tyranny.

  19. Scott Hinckley says:

    I keep forgetting that the expiration date for anything Barack Obama says is shorter than that of a quart of whole milk kept at room temperature.

  20. hellomynameissteve says:

    I fear that the partisan atmosphere in Washington will be poisoned to the point where no one will be able to agree on anything – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036956

    That rubicon was crossed the day Obama was elected and your team decided their game plan was to obstruct anything he attempted simply because he was attempting it.

    But the issue of Jeff’s post (as I read it) wasn’t rehashing the Senate rules change – it’s that Obama dared register an opinion on the matter.

  21. newrouter says:

    death panels slapp

  22. hellomynameissteve says:

    He can appoint all his Marxist buddies, steve. And presto! Tyranny. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036960

    Golly. Elections have consequences. Who knew. You might want to run an ad or something telling Americans, “Your vote matters.” (And he’s not appointing any Marxists).

  23. newrouter says:

    >That rubicon was crossed the day Obama was elected and your team decided their game plan was to obstruct anything he attempted simply because he was attempting it. < how do you do that with dem congress and 60 dem senate '08-'1o?

  24. Scott Hinckley says:

    was to obstruct anything he attempted simply because he was attempting it.

    The concept of “opposition party” really is lost on you, isn’t it?

    BTW, they are not my team. “My team” believes that actions have consequences, words have meaning, and in the rule of law. Unlike our major political parties…..

  25. hellomynameissteve says:

    death panels slapp

    We’ve always had death panels. There are lots of treatments your insurance won’t cover.

  26. hellomynameissteve says:

    The concept of “opposition party” really is lost on you, isn’t it? – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036965

    Ideally, an opposition party puts forward an alternative plan for the people, tries to build popular support for it, and deflect majority legislation as much as they reasonably can, with the goal being to improve it. Outright obstruction is saved for a relatively small set of non-negotiables.

    If “opposition party” means what you claim it means, then government simply shuts down any time the house, senate, and president aren’t all controlled by the same party. They should all just go home for 2 years. Strangely, people still expect the government to function at some level even when split.

  27. leigh says:

    Quite, Scott.

  28. newrouter says:

    O!care in action

    [Debra] Fishericks is (a) fighting kidney cancer, (b) loves her soon-to-be-canceled employer-based coverage, (c) can’t find an affordable policy on Obamacare’s exchange that allows her to keep her doctors, and (d) tearfully frets that the new regime will be so punitive and expensive that she won’t have enough money to visit her beloved grandchild. A genuine parade of horribles. Fishericks’ experience shreds four core promises of Obamacare: She can’t keep her plan, she can’t keep her doctor, she can’t afford the new options, and she falls beyond the administration’s “five percent” deception. She’s one of the millions who will lose their group coverage status over the next few years.

    link

  29. leigh says:

    I am a fan of gridlock. It means that the legislators aren’t figuring out new and improved ways to tax us into prosperity.

  30. Scott Hinckley says:

    There are lots of treatments your insurance won’t cover.

    Which were identified at length in the plan’s documents up front and available for review by anyone wishing to take the effort to read them, and use as information in the decision to buy a particular plan or not. Now, we have plans mandated by law (no choice), and the treatments that may or may not be covered will be decided by an unelected, government appointed commission (i.e. death panel) as they see fit, after you are already bound to the plan.

  31. dicentra says:

    There are lots of treatments your insurance won’t cover.

    Which would you rather hear, regarding a lifesaving treatment?

    “We won’t pay for it.”

    “We don’t care how much money you’ve raised — you can’t have it.”

    Guess which one Obamacare implements?

  32. hellomynameissteve says:

    I am a fan of gridlock. It means that the legislators aren’t figuring out new and improved ways to tax us into prosperity. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036966

    You guys already kvetch about all the golf he plays. Seems like a bargain compared to “talking to Senate colleagues”, and “nominating people to fill vacancies.”

  33. hellomynameissteve says:

    Which would you rather hear, regarding a lifesaving treatment? “We won’t pay for it.” “We don’t care how much money you’ve raised — you can’t have it.” Guess which one Obamacare implements? – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036972

    Sorry, which treatments have been outlawed?

  34. Scott Hinckley says:

    And you do realize that Medicaid or Medicare (I don’t remember which one) has the highest rate of denied claim for all health plans? Much higher than any of those evil, greedy private insurance companies.

  35. palaeomerus says:

    “That rubicon was crossed the day Obama was elected and your team decided their game plan was to obstruct anything he attempted simply because he was attempting it. ”

    Ah, a Rubicon. So you recognize the imperialistic imposition nature of it. And how is that any different than obstructionism against Bush?

  36. Mueller says:

    I will address these ad seriatum

    hellomynameissteve says November 25, 2013 at 3:02 pm
    Why is this an issue?
    – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comments

    Separation of powers.
    Part of our constitutional outline.

    hellomynameissteve says November 25, 2013 at 3:22 pm
    Since when did “filling vacancies” become “court packing”?
    – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comments

    When it’s done for ideological reasons.

    hellomynameissteve says November 25, 2013 at 3:26 pm
    I fear that the partisan atmosphere in Washington will be poisoned to the point where no one will be able to agree on anything – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036956
    That rubicon was crossed the day Obama was elected and your team decided their game plan was to obstruct anything he attempted simply because he was attempting it.

    No, because there were and still are constitutional issues on how those positions were acted upon ie “have to pass it to know what’s in it.”

    But the issue of Jeff’s post (as I read it) wasn’t rehashing the Senate rules change – it’s that Obama dared register an opinion on the matter.
    – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comments

    He didn’t offer his opinion. He actively lobbied for the rule change. See #1 above.

    hellomynameissteve says November 25, 2013 at 3:28 pm
    He can appoint all his Marxist buddies, steve. And presto! Tyranny. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036960
    Golly. Elections have consequences. Who knew. You might want to run an ad or something telling Americans, “Your vote matters.” (And he’s not appointing any Marxists).
    – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comments

    I’m from Chicago. My vote matters just as long as its a democrat vote. It’s the Chicago way.

    hellomynameissteve says November 25, 2013 at 3:30 pm
    death panels slapp
    We’ve always had death panels. There are lots of treatments your insurance won’t cover.
    – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comments

    But emergency rooms do.

    Do you have any friends that might have gotten better grades than you? Do you think you could convince them to post here? Because, quite frankly, intellectually you’re not very challenging.

  37. leigh says:

    You guys already kvetch about all the golf he plays.

    Not from me, you don’t. I wish he’d play more golf and stop pretending to be president.

    He should be a scratch golfer by now, but I hear he still sucks out loud.

  38. palaeomerus says:

    “You guys already kvetch about all the golf he plays. Seems like a bargain compared to “talking to Senate colleagues”, and “nominating people to fill vacancies.”

    Shorter Steve : “What we called criminal in thee we shall call virtuous in ourselves. “

  39. palaeomerus says:

    “Ideally, an opposition party puts forward an alternative plan for the people, tries to build popular support for it, and deflect majority legislation as much as they reasonably can, with the goal being to improve it. Outright obstruction is saved for a relatively small set of non-negotiables. ”

    False in both theory and historical practice. And what’s with this “ideally” horseshit?

  40. palaeomerus says:

    “Golly. Elections have consequences.”

    Sometimes tragic and unforseen consequences.

  41. dicentra says:

    Sorry, which treatments have been outlawed?

    Not outlawed: rationed.

    Sibelius already denied a lung transplant to a little girl on a technicality. In a sane world, the kid would have gotten it.

    As soon as one of yours gets a “you can’t have it because technicality,” you’ll be just fine with it, right? Content in the knowledge that the trains are running on time?

  42. palaeomerus says:

    A federal Judge forced them to put the girl on the adult lung transplant list and she got the transplant and another when the first failed. But now we have judged approved on advice and consent of the senate on a 51/100 vote.

  43. Drumwaster says:

    Outright obstruction is saved for a relatively small set of non-negotiables.

    You mean like our Constitution? Or is that one of the “negotiables” in your dimension?

  44. palaeomerus says:

    judged-> judges

  45. palaeomerus says:

    “Because, quite frankly, intellectually you’re not very challenging.”

    That’s pretty rich coming from you Steve given you rarely understand what you or anyone else is talking about.

  46. Drumwaster says:

    Sorry, which treatments have been outlawed?

    They don’t have to be illegal to be denied as “not cost-effective”. Obama himself pointed out that some patients would be better off taking a pill. Now unless they have managed to create those miracle pills that will cure cancer and diabetes, what kind of a pill was Obama talking about?

  47. hellomynameissteve says:

    So you recognize the imperialistic imposition nature of it. And how is that any different than obstructionism against Bush? – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036973

    It’s vastly more frequent and blatant – to the point if being universal. There isn’t even a pretense of putting forward a better alternative. It’s just pure obstruction now.

    Separation of powers. Part of our constitutional outline. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036973

    Separation of powers keeps the president from “lobbying” (whatever that means) Congress? Horseshit, I say.

    When it’s done for ideological reasons.

    Um, I’m pretty sure they’re being blocked for ideological reasons. Many of the people blocked are eminently qualified.

    No, because there were and still are constitutional issues on how those positions were acted upon ie “have to pass it to know what’s in it.” – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036973

    With nominations??? Because that’s the only filibuster that’s been changed. Stay on target, Luke.

    He didn’t offer his opinion. He actively lobbied for the rule change. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036973

    President lobbies congress. Water still wet. News at 11.

    I’m from Chicago. My vote matters just as long as its a democrat vote. It’s the Chicago way. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036973

    Persuade.

    But emergency rooms do.

    Nope. You can’t show up at an emergency room and get that experimental cancer treatment either.

    I have a plan for you.

    1. Figure out what the actual topic is
    2. Stay on it

    Care to try again?

  48. hellomynameissteve says:

    Not outlawed: rationed. Sibelius already denied a lung transplant to a little girl on a technicality. In a sane world, the kid would have gotten it. As soon as one of yours gets a “you can’t have it because technicality,” you’ll be just fine with it, right? Content in the knowledge that the trains are running on time? – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036989

    Apparently you would prefer we just dump lungs on the sidewalk and let people fight over them. Or maybe auction them off to the highest bidder. Then everyone would have a fair and equal chance at one.

  49. Drumwaster says:

    Apparently you would prefer we just dump lungs on the sidewalk and let people fight over them. Or maybe auction them off to the highest bidder. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036988

    Or how about we keep the government out of that decision loop altogether? Or is cutting back on the authority bureaucrats have one of those “non-negotiables”?

  50. Slartibartfast says:

    Since when did “filling vacancies” become “court packing”?

    Since your fellow travelers decided it was.

  51. Slartibartfast says:

    We’re just going along with the new lexicon, you see. You want to change the language, you have to deal with the path you’ve swerved it onto.

  52. hellomynameissteve says:

    Or how about we keep the government out of that decision loop altogether? Or is cutting back on the authority bureaucrats have one of those “non-negotiables”? – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036990

    And who would you like setting up the policy for how organs are apportioned?

  53. palaeomerus says:

    “Apparently you would prefer we just dump lungs on the sidewalk and let people fight over them ”

    Yes, that is exactly what happened before Obamacare regs steve. Totally. You didn’t pull that ridiculous stupidity out of your silly ass it ALL. No way. That is a real thing that you are posing as the only alternative to Sibelius making decisions on who goes on what transplant list. And everyone should take it seriously. And I bet coming up with it, rigorously vetting it to make sure it wasn’t dumb, and then sharing it with us was intellectually challenging for you too.

  54. palaeomerus says:

    “And who would you like setting up the policy for how organs are apportioned?”

    Fight for them on the street Steve just like you said! It’s the only possible alternative after all. Yep.

  55. Mueller says:

    1. Figure out what the actual topic is 2. Stay on it – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comments

    You’re the one all over the place Steven.

    And who would you like setting up the policy for how organs are apportioned? – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comments

    Not the federal government.

  56. palaeomerus says:

    “There isn’t even a pretense of putting forward a better alternative. It’s just pure obstruction now.”

    And if Reid won’t hear alternatives then there there are none QED. Alternatives CAN’T be better so there are a just another time wasting form of obstruction. AMIRITE?

  57. palaeomerus says:

    This is just ‘will to power’ disguising itself as necessity as it often does. Criminal in thee yet virtuous in me.

  58. One man. One vote. One time.

  59. HMNIS: Why do you think every damn thing on the face of the earth requires a policy for your friends to administer?

  60. hellomynameissteve says:

    Yes, that is exactly what happened before Obamacare regs steve. Totally. You didn’t pull that ridiculous stupidity out of your silly ass it ALL. No way. That is a real thing that you are posing as the only alternative to Sibelius making decisions on who goes on what transplant list. And everyone should take it seriously. And I bet coming up with it, rigorously vetting it to make sure it wasn’t dumb, and then sharing it with us was intellectually challenging for you too. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036995

    Sorry, but I don’t even know what the fuck you’re talking about. Some girl didn’t qualify for a lung, and the parents petitioned Siebelus to change the rules, and she said no. AKAIK, Sibelius made NO DECISION on specific individuals being on or off the list.

    You really want some federal appointee deciding, based on their mood, who gets a lung?

    And if Reid won’t hear alternatives then there there are none QED. Alternatives CAN’T be better so there are a just another time wasting form of obstruction. AMIRITE? – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1036995

    I think you’re forgetting the several years of the Obama presidency when Republicans were invited to participate, their ideas were added to legislation, Republicans voted against the legislation anyways, and then they bragged about the things they got put into it.

    That got old.

  61. hellomynameissteve says:

    Why do you think every damn thing on the face of the earth requires a policy for your friends to administer? – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1037005

    You think organs should be apportioned with no policy? So you’re in the “dump them on the sidewalk and let people fight over them” camp, I guess.

  62. hellomynameissteve says:

    new – there are lots of procedures your insurance won’t cover. there have always been “death panels”

  63. bgbear says:

    What those who favor Big Govt “solutions” to healthcare miss is that when a bad player/event in the traditional healthcare market pops up, the damage is limited for their particular clients/patients.

    As the govt plays a bigger role, the field of people damaged will be bigger when something goes wrong. Who are you going to turn to?

  64. newrouter says:

    >there have always been “death panels”<

    not fed gov't run slappy

  65. Drumwaster says:

    Looks like the Death Panels have been there all this time, and the media is just now noticing. I figure hellomynameismud will be figuring it out right about the time they get offered the blindfold…

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/11/25/mark_halperin_obamacare_contains_death_panels.html#.UpPVCOdeqp4.twitter

  66. palaeomerus says:

    “Sorry, but I don’t even know what the fuck you’re talking about. ”

    You almost never do. What else is new?

  67. Drumwaster says:

    there are lots of procedures your insurance won’t cover. there have always been “death panels”

    There is a difference between “won’t pay for” and “denied”. Obamacare has only the latter.

  68. Drumwaster says:

    You think organs should be apportioned with no policy?

    Show us a single instance of viable organs simply being dumped on the sidewalk for donors to fight over, Slappy.

    Or admit to being both a liar and a fool.

  69. palaeomerus says:

    “I think you’re forgetting the several years of the Obama presidency when Republicans were invited to participate, their ideas were added to legislation, Republicans voted against the legislation anyways, and then they bragged about the things they got put into it. – ”

    Bullshit Steve. Republicans have been coming up with alternatives and having them dismissed out of hand since 2008. How is that you think voting against something is obstruction anyway? This is power grab. It’s not something that republicans caused. It was the shrinking democrat senate who just pissed off america who did this.

  70. Drumwaster says:

    I think you’re forgetting the several years of the Obama presidency when Republicans were invited to participate, their ideas were added to legislation

    See also “I won”, you fucking idiot. How many Republicans voted for ObamaCare again? Oh, that’s right, not a single one. NOT ONE.

    There were even closed-door caucus meetings to work it out, and the “deemed passed” (with no actual vote) just to protect Congressmen who could then claim to vote against it when they needed to. This with a 60-vote majority.

  71. palaeomerus says:

    He’s just shoveling stupid bullshit now. It’s wish-casting nonsense. Republicans never offered alternatives. Sibelius is preventing fights for organs in the streets. It doesn’t get any stupider or lamer than this.

  72. Ernst Schreiber says:

    You know what else prevents fights for organs in the streets?

    The market.

    Much more efficiently too.

    Now, if only it was fair.

  73. palaeomerus says:

    No Ernst your choices according the prog dream of progressive progress is an arbitrary policy that Sibelius doesn’t interfere with or fighting for organs in the streets. Coming up with an alternative especially one that existed and worked is obstructionist and justifies changing senate rules.

  74. Drumwaster says:

    Any time I hear some limpdick whinging about how “Life isn’t fair“, I ask, “Compared to what?”

    The Obama generation: the first generation in America where things will be demonstrably worse for them than it was for their parents.

  75. leigh says:

    Where’s Darth? This transplant subject needs more light shined on it, as we did back in the good old days before steve darkened our doors.

    Lungs are fragile and have to be typed to the recipient by blood type and HLAs. They also are frequently rejected as happened with the young girl who lucked into a second set. The story is the same with other body organs. They aren’t just snapped into place like an accessory on GI Joe.

    Decision making should be left up to the doctors and the transplant teams, not Uncle Sugar.

  76. Drumwaster says:

    They aren’t just snapped into place like an accessory on GI Joe.

    You have to remember that Der Won is a guy who thinks corpse-men pad their profit margins by chopping off a few feet.

  77. leigh says:

    Ah! That’s right, Drum. They also make a few extra bucks by tearing tonsils out of sore throated kiddoes.

    What bullshit. I haven’t known of anyone having their tonsils out in forty years.

  78. palaeomerus says:

    Yeah, you don’t need refused procedures. You just think you do because of all that doctor profiteering going on. All those unnecessary knee replacement surgeries done just to pay a 2nd mortgage off. Supposedly. You need a pain pill and a huge bill for it which your insurance will pay if you are over your $3000 a year personal deductible.

  79. newrouter says:

    medical bankruptcies are good for lawyers

  80. hellomynameissteve says:

    not fed gov’t run slappy

    They aren’t federal run now. Insurance is still through private insurers. Besides, you prefer a for-profit death panel?

    There is a difference between “won’t pay for” and “denied”. Obamacare has only the latter. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1037007

    What procedures have been outlawed under Obamacare?

    You know what else prevents fights for organs in the streets? The market. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1037007

    Auction them to the highest bidder then?

    Coming up with an alternative especially one that existed and worked is obstructionist and justifies changing senate rules. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1037007

    You have yet to give any specifics on how your Magic Organ Plan(tm) works.

    Lungs are fragile and have to be typed to the recipient by blood type and HLAs. They also are frequently rejected as happened with the young girl who lucked into a second set. The story is the same with other body organs. They aren’t just snapped into place like an accessory on GI Joe.
    Decision making should be left up to the doctors and the transplant teams, not Uncle Sugar.
    – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1037007

    Like they aren’t checked for compatibility already. Seriously, what do you think is so gawd-aweful about the transplant lists that exist today? Except that there aren’t enough organs for everyone who needs them. (prolly because of Obama). I mean, I know you guys like to get your panties in a twist over EVERYTHING that in any way intersects with any part of the government while Democrats are in office, but transplant lists are your big issue?

  81. newrouter says:

    >Besides, you prefer a for-profit death panel?<

    no i despise gov't/private monopolies

  82. newrouter says:

    >What procedures have been outlawed under Obamacare? <

    start with "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor" and then expand it if statement is a lie.

  83. Drumwaster says:

    What procedures have been outlawed under Obamacare?

    Anything that isn’t cost-effective, as determined by your local board of unelected bureaucrats who get to decide if your cancer treatment is worth it, based on your age and life condition. Your politics won’t ever enter into it, I’m sure, just like we could keep our doctors and policies and plans.

  84. leigh says:

    but transplant lists are your big issue?

    *sigh*

    You brought it up, steve. Piles of organs in the street for everyone to fight over? Hyperbole much?

    My answer was that the government does very little well. Modern medicine is certainly not going to be one of them and they should back off.

  85. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Auction them to the highest bidder then

    Sure, why not?

    The art world seems to be doing fine without a High Commission on Art and Appreciation of Art writing 50,000 pages of regs to decide who gets the Picasso and who only rates a second hand print of one of Warhol’s soup cans.

  86. leigh says:

    Oh, and news flash, steve. Most of us aren’t republicans so put that card back in the discard pile.

  87. Danger says:

    Mueller,

    I told you that Steve would return.

    Proverbs 13:16 Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.
    Ecclesiastes 10:14 A fool also is full of words: a man cannot tell what shall be; and what shall be after him, who can tell him?

    There are none so blind as a Steve that cannot see where this will take us.

  88. bgbear says:

    oh leigh, you know my dirty little secret. I register D back in the 80s and have been too lazy to change ;)

  89. leigh says:

    Heh, bgbear.

  90. Drumwaster says:

    I haven’t voted Republican for President since Bush’s narrow electoral victory. None of the candidates have earned my vote.

  91. bgbear says:

    can’t criticize you drum but, for me, too much at stake to not vote for Romney. I know that is where the Rovians want us but, Obama is the worst president ever, period.

  92. Pablo says:

    What procedures have been outlawed under Obamacare?

    You’ll have to see what Kathleen Sebelius has to say. Looks like she’s on her way to becoming a one woman death panel. She’s been practicing, too.

  93. bgbear says:

    hah, Redskins honored the “code talkers” before the game tonight, old guys looked pretty good.

  94. newrouter says:

    >What procedures have been outlawed under Obamacare? <

    constitutional fed gov't

  95. Pablo says:

    Some girl didn’t qualify for a lung, and the parents petitioned Siebelus to change the rules, and she said no. AKAIK, Sibelius made NO DECISION on specific individuals being on or off the list.

    “Yeah, I’m just following the government rules. There’s nothing I can do, you see, because of the rules. Don’t look at me. I don’t write them. Unless I do. But rules are rules and that sucks for you. Maybe you could exercise your other healthcare options! Hahahaha. I kill me. And you too.”

  96. palaeomerus says:

    “You have yet to give any specifics on how your Magic Organ Plan(tm) works. -”

    So you basically have no idea at all how the previous system worked. You just know that it must have needed a good changing since they changed it.

  97. palaeomerus says:

    “What procedures have been outlawed under Obamacare?”

    Not participating.

  98. palaeomerus says:

    “What procedures have been outlawed under Obamacare?”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rin4h4cRs6Y

  99. bgbear says:

    Ruining that poor girls lungs was probably a Republican plot to make the administration look bad.

    I am still convinced that Sebelius was Obama’s well calculated/cynical choice for VP. Must have been full panic mode after McCain announced Palin. How else do you explain Biden?

  100. palaeomerus says:

    “Like they aren’t checked for compatibility already.”

    The new reg added a layer of compatibility: adult vs. child donor that would have excluded a compatible donor organ being available to the patient. A federal Judge over turned the reg as Sibelius ruled on it, so it’s no longer the law of the land now I guess.

  101. palaeomerus says:

    “Ruining that poor girls lungs was probably a Republican plot to make the administration look bad.”

    Tropes available for rehtorical deployment:

    Dirty air and dirty water,
    Child neglect and malnutrition,
    War on women.
    Medical cruelty from lifey doodles who doom innocents who lost the genetic lottery to a long expensive life of pain*.

    * -See The Big Friendly John Stuart Mill Book of Win/Win Strategies Including Kevorkian Doses, Pulling Plugs, Mandatory 30+ Population Renewal Parties, Short Term Palliative Care Paths, and serving Soylent Green for a light memorial snack because Malthus and SCIENCE!.

  102. Pablo says:

    A federal Judge over turned the reg as Sibelius ruled on it, so it’s no longer the law of the land now I guess.

    And Sara is alive rather than dead.

  103. bgbear says:

    not bad palaeo. I was thinking asbestos cigarettes but, I would of made a bad Bond villain. For starter, I would probably just shoot Bond. No sense of style.

  104. palaeomerus says:

    “Besides, you prefer a for-profit death panel”

    I prefer a private one that I can ignore and go around to a Government one that can deny me access to care across the entire country based on a policy or fudged actuarial data or just a desire to cut costs to have better numbers at the end of a year when an election is taking place. If you’ll fudge employment numbers collected by census people before an election, and use the IRS to suppress speech before an election, then you’ll deny your enemies healthcare and deny anyone health care in the short term to to avoid people finding out that the costs are rising when it could negatively affect a party during an election.

    Worse, even if it has some local flexibility hospitals trying to control costs to meet federal spending regs will find reasons to delay, deny, or reduce treatments just as insurance companies now sometimes find excuses to delay, deny, or reduce coverage when their profits are down.

  105. Pablo says:

    Slappy prefers an iron-fisted death panel.

  106. cranky-d says:

    Will anyone here speak up for steve? Besides steve, of course.

    Is there any redeeming factor in his being here? Please tell me he serves some purpose, to lessen my annoyance with his presence.

  107. bgbear says:

    exactly palaeo, it sucks if one company screws over their policy holders but, at least the effects are limited.

  108. bgbear says:

    I refuse to respond directly to the man so, it is like he is dead to me. How is that for a death panel?

  109. Drumwaster says:

    Please tell me he serves some purpose

    I would say “comic relief”, but the crap he is defending isn’t funny in the least.

  110. leigh says:

    palaeo, another trope is:

    Obama was elected to a second term!

    The implication being that no other president has served a second term and that he has carte blanche to do as he pleases, so shut up.

  111. palaeomerus says:

    “For starter, I would probably just shoot Bond.”

    Preferably from a far away hill with no one to lead him back to you. He doesn’t like getting shot much.

  112. Drumwaster says:

    Obama was elected to a second term!

    So was Bush, so Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid should have just shut up and given him anything he wanted.

    (Just getting that argument out there for after the Dems lose the Senate.)

  113. leigh says:

    I pointed that out to a different troll, Drum.

    Also: Nixon, RWR, Eisenhower and (Clinton).

  114. bgbear says:

    As an evil overlord by “I” mean my minions shoot him and I take full credit if they succeed and disavow any failure.

  115. dicentra says:

    That hand gesture that Sibelius is making here?

    Sam Malone said never to do that to a guy.

    I wonder who she’s insulting.

  116. palaeomerus says:

    Look, the only alternative to Obamacare is a life resembling the savage battles of the Road Warrior followed by aliens popping out of everyone’s chests. Is that what what you want? Because those are the only possibilities. Obamacare or Lord Humongous shooting you as a xenomorph pops out of your chest. Republicans want to see see you raped and mutilated by post apocalyptic raiders in a barren wasteland and killed by a predatory parasite. They probably want you to be Nicholas Cage and have bees put into a special helmet with your face and then burn you in a wicker man too. Any other alternative anyone tries to sell you on is false and obstructionist. QED. I win. Because I’m so smart and you’re so dumb, and because politics n’stuff.

  117. leigh says:

    I have henchmen, bgbear.

  118. bgbear says:

    Hench 4 Life – Gary “21”

  119. palaeomerus says:

    He sort of quit for a while to become a horrible bumbling tag-along and super hero.

  120. newrouter says:

    >Sam Malone said never to do that to a guy. I wonder who she’s insulting.<

    stock proggtard stuff. she insults only those opposed the "plan". a communist.

  121. newrouter says:

    This is not an abstract essay on individuals living in any society
    whatsoever, but about human beings and their prospects in a system
    circumscribed by power, ideology, and social and cultural manipulation.
    In a totalitarian political structure, just about every facet
    of human existence is politicized. The hierarchically organized
    ruling class has at its disposal a highly centralized form of decisionmaking
    power. Its totality is best revealed in the dispersive way it
    controls and influences all the components of society, whose subordinate
    decision-making power is derived from direct or indirect
    signals, resolutions, directives and orders, all emanating from the
    top of the ruling hierarchy.
    Discussions about what comprises politics remain vague as long
    as they do not take into consideration the politicization of ‘nonpolitical’
    spheres and ‘non-political’ behaviour. In a totalitarian
    system, every kind of behaviour is ‘political’ because the ruling
    power judges every attitude, every accomplishment according to

    page 104 potpl

  122. palaeomerus says:

    Capitalist penis is small like twig. Insignificant. History cannot even see it on its glorious march to equality! It is too small even for the owl who hunts the mice. Is laughed at by tiny comrade worm!

  123. newrouter says:

    The problem of conformity and non-conformity, position and
    opposition, consent and dissent, exists solely because there are
    socio-political differences in society and differences in power, which
    in turn have differing degrees of privilege attached to them. As I
    understand it, privilege, which in some instances overlaps with
    power, means the ability to act and attain certain goals. Privilege
    can correspond with the political establishment, in which case it is a
    conforming privilege. To be the son of a government official and
    thus be guaranteed the right to a university education is to enjoy
    conformist privilege, one that is positive in that one attains a good
    position in society but negative in that one forfeits true individuality.
    Non-conformist privilege is associated with membership in the
    underground or political opposition. Measured by general standards,
    this brings a low level of social prestige but a large degree of
    social individuality, independence and authenticity. Everyone is
    free to choose which category of privilege they consider sufficient
    for their lives. Individuals who have decided to lead lives consistent
    with their own moral sense will, in the deprived totalitarian society,
    lean unequivocally towards non-conformist privilege. In doing so,
    they will be exposed to many difficulties and stumbling blocks in
    practical life, but their approach will be characterized by openness,
    seeking, self-confidence, conviction, a free critical sense, selfcriticism
    and even a smiling self-irony, all factors not to be taken
    lightly in the preservation of one’s sanity under the constant barrage
    of threats from the authorities.

    page 105 potpl

  124. newrouter says:

    i post “potpl” only to to inform the public about who is in “control”

  125. bgbear says:

    In Contracts first year of law school I do not recall covering tattoo obligations. Maybe Kingsfield covered it on The Paper Chase

  126. LBascom says:

    “Danger says November 25, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    Mueller,

    I told you that Steve would return. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1037041

    Hi Danger. I believe it was Proverbs 26:11 you were looking for…

  127. newrouter says:

    >non-conformist privilege.<

    so '70's havel dude it be "white privilege"

  128. LBascom says:

    And with that, from now on, steveie will for ever more be known as “dog vomit”…

  129. geoffb says:

    We will have to wait for the IPAB to act so we can see just what procedures have been made unavailable. Deaths must happen first before any blame can be placed and then it is already set for doctors and hospitals to be blamed. Deniablity is built in from the start.

    “The IPAB will be able to stop certain treatments its members do not favor by simply setting rates to levels where no doctor or hospital will perform them,” Dean wrote in The Wall Street Journal.
    […]
    The Affordable Care Act prevents the IPAB from making recommendations that would directly ration care. But critics say reducing provider reimbursements would have the same result by making it difficult for healthcare professionals to make money in Medicare.

    While it’s unlikely the board will be convened soon, Medicare cost growth is not high enough to trigger its work, and any nominees would face long confirmation fights in the Senate…

    That was from August 8th, ages ago. No confirmation fights now so expect the nominations to be persons like Donald Berwick and people who admire the work of NICE and the idea of the Liverpool Care Pathway.

  130. Patrick Chester says:

    Ah yes, let’s change patients from paying customers to business expenses. What could possibly go wrong?!

  131. BigBangHunter says:

    – Steve-dolt is content to push this immense increase in gov meddling because he imagines it won’t effect him, or if it does Progressives and DemoRats will have a magic card that gives them relief from any problems that might arise.

    – He is imminently wrong on all counts, as the aperatchiks always discover as the benevolent gov person slips it to them. In Ruskha it was a blindfold and firing squad, in the new AmeriKKa it will be a party worker explaining how theres just no way that opperation will be justified for his child.

    – Of course after whatever disaster befalls him he will rush right back here to appologize and repent.

    What? …… No you say…..No he won’t repent.

    – I suppose not. Why warn off the next generation of young turks so niave and eager to get sucked in, just as long as they feel like they belong, after all thats what really matters. He got screwed so he’ll be more than happy to let the next group get theirs.

  132. hellomynameissteve says:

    And Sara is alive rather than dead.

    Golly, and if Sara hadn’t gotten that lung, it would have just gone in the garbage. Oh wait, it would have gone to someone else who was going to die without out it?

    I still haven’t heard your grand plan to allocate organs better than how it’s done now. Because at the end of the day, there aren’t enough organs for everyone that needs one.

    I prefer a private one that I can ignore and go around to a Government one that can deny me access to care across the entire country based on a policy or fudged actuarial data or just a desire to cut costs to have better numbers at the end of a year when an election is taking place. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1037028

    Break it down for me. When your private insurer denies you a treatment, how are you planning on going around them, other then getting out your credit card and paying full boat? How does ACA change that? You guys seem to be fabricating a scenario that doesn’t actually exist.

    “Yeah, I’m just following the government rules. There’s nothing I can do, you see, because of the rules. Don’t look at me. I don’t write them. Unless I do. But rules are rules and that sucks for you. Maybe you could exercise your other healthcare options! Hahahaha. I kill me. And you too.” – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1037028

    You mean the arbitrary made-up government rule of supply and demand where there aren’t enough organs for everyone the needs one?

    Anything that isn’t cost-effective, as determined by your local board of unelected bureaucrats who get to decide if your cancer treatment is worth it, based on your age and life condition. Your politics won’t ever enter into it, I’m sure, just like we could keep our doctors and policies and plans. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1037028

    You mean like your private insurers already decide what procedures are covered, or simply drop you if you actually need that insurance you’ve been paying for?

    And again Drum, no procedures have been outlawed because of the ACA. You can break out your credit card and get whatever you want.

  133. hellomynameissteve says:

    Auction them to the highest bidder then

    Sure, why not? The art world seems to be doing fine without a High Commission on Art and Appreciation of Art writing 50,000 pages of regs to decide who gets the Picasso and who only rates a second hand print of one of Warhol’s soup cans. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52030#comment-1037099

    Stop that Ernst. This is the kind of shit that will, before you know it, have people here saying, “Slappy, show me where anyone here every said that organs should be auctioned to the highest bidder. Liebot!!!”

  134. BigBangHunter says:

    You can break out your credit card and get whatever you want

    – The naivette’ of the Progressive numbskulls is breath taking. They actually believe they can game the man with the gold, or in this case, service to sell.

    – If I had a single penny for every dipshit that insists it can be done, I would need a good sized state to keep them all in. Belief in a free lunch is exactly like belief in perpetual motion. Exactly.

  135. BigBangHunter says:

    – And since I’m absolutely rock solid sure what I just said will fly over your head Slappy, at about 65,000 feet, try thinking about whats eally going on here that doesn’t even get into the whole “the government can’t take a dump without getting crap on everything in the bathroom.

    – The grand idea behind this is your dumb ass leaders think they can force the market by rules and regulations. That idea is so stupid and has been proven wrong so many times it only sells to young inexperienced people.

    – Good luck.

  136. BigBangHunter says:

    – All this bullshit, all the money and politics and fighting and arguing and after the dust settles the only thing you will have accpomplished is less people will have access to even fewer sevices, because the very first thing that will happen in a forced market is the suppliers will eliminate anything thats not profitable, and if the government tries to mandate those items there simply won’t be any proctologists available if ass work is not profitable.

    – Your scheme is doomed to not just failure, but the most spectacular failure. The business people will turn this into a landfall series of profitable changes at the expense of the public. Services will keep eroding, never to be replaced, and people will just not have any alternative. The rich will buy whatever they need elsewhere, and the poor will eventually be screwed the worst when the wellfare level is unsustainable. Outside markets will spring up to fill the vacuum, like they always do. You will have accomplished nothing positive.

  137. palaeomerus says:

    “Stop that Ernst. This is the kind of shit that will, before you know it, have people here saying, “Slappy, show me where anyone here every said that organs should be auctioned to the highest bidder. Liebot!!!”

    No, because you somehow magically reduced all choices down to to 0bamacare regs or fight over them in the street ignoring every other systems ever and assigning a false virtue to the 0bamacare regs mostly because you don’t know anything about the previous system. Or any other syste, You just have a retarded vision of chaos that represents the set of “not 0bamacare” to guide you. There is nothing remotely informed or sophisticated in your approach here steve. Its grade school level stupid. You don’t want a serious discussion. You don’t have any serious arguments. You just assume that obamacare is the only thing that could ever work and proceed to stupid things up from there. You ask questions with a hope of crying gotcha, you feign ignorance of sarcasm directed at you to try and build up some extreme straw man position to swing to later and then you just naively repeat the obamacare is the only option there ever was lie. You don’t have a serious critique of the prior lists and systems. You don’t know their advantages and disadvantages. You have no intelligent or useful commentary on this subject to offer. All you have is ‘ra rah Obama’ and ‘but what about your stupid system that I don’t know fuck about’. You can’t even make a case for obamacare’s regs. It’s all fog on your part.

    Go and gather more talking points from people who have put in some minimal effort you dim bulb of a parroting fraud.

  138. palaeomerus says:

    Also where are the lowered costs and lower premiums? Where? How soon before we move the goal posts all the way from lower premiums to lower than they would have been if we hadn’t passed Obamacare as augured by this magic eightball?

    I mean we skewed unemployment to jobs saved whatever the shit that is and made up some unemployment numbers to boot when the census takers didn’t get enough responses to get paid.

    We lied about what the IRS was doing.

    We blamed Benghazi on a Youtube video and claimed that the middle east would be worse without smart diplomacy whatever that means.

    There is no fail state here steve. Every poor result or bad event is called a brave enlightened stand against unseen forces that kept things from being even worse but fell short from a good result. The adjusted metrics are clearly horseshit based on false comparisons of bad numbers with nonsense made up unverifiable control figures that show that the numbers would ave been worse and falsely quantify a value of some policy.

    We get to a lowered deficit by assuming growth levels that never come close to happening and then blame the lack of deficit reduction on growth rates that were much lower than the insanely high rate modeled and expected.

    It’s a scam steve. It’s not even a clever one.

  139. palaeomerus says:

    ” Oh wait, it would have gone to someone else who was going to die without out it? – ”

    Who steve? Tell us who lost the lung that should have had it. Go on. Tell us how long donor lungs keep and why that other person was better candidate for it and how all of that was accounted for in the specifics of the Obamacare list system. Explain what kind of improvement the Obamacare list gives over other list systems and explain why it is right for the whole damned country. Go on.

  140. palaeomerus says:

    ” Break it down for me. When your private insurer denies you a treatment, how are you planning on going around them, other then getting out your credit card and paying full boat? ”

    I’ll go to another state if I have to. I’ll find a doctor who will do it for a discount. I’ll find charity help. I’ll go to the state board of insurance and see if they can get the insurance compnay to change their mind or put me on the state insurance for people who can;t get insurance.

    Under Obamacare that’s it. You can’t even get the credit card out. You are denied treatment per a rationing scheme based on cost savings rather than patient outcomes. There is no appeal.

  141. palaeomerus says:

    “You mean the arbitrary made-up government rule of supply and demand where there aren’t enough organs for everyone the needs one? ”

    There was an organ available. It was denied her not based on supply and demand but purely on regs about donor age. Calling something best practices does not mean better outcomes. We were told that the rollout was in competent hands as well.

  142. palaeomerus says:

    “You mean like your private insurers already decide what procedures are covered, or simply drop you if you actually need that insurance you’ve been paying for? ”

    Oh you’ve never heard of shopping around to different insurers who cover different things and seeking help from your state’s subsidized high risk pool insurance if you lose your insurance coverage?

    Remember when you were trying to sell 48 million uninsured as people who could not afford or get insurance it turned out that half were illegal immigrants who won’t sign up for fear of getting caught and about a quarter were oung people who don’t want it or feel they don’t need it and most of the rest were people between jobs looking for new work and new insurance?

    Remember when they STILL had access to emergency care regardless of ability to pay but you were sort of claiming that they could not get treated ever?

    This is more of that shit steve.

  143. SBP says:

    So, Slaphead: do you plan on murdering millions of actual people in real life or do you just enjoy hanging around with that sort?

    I don’t recall you answering that question.

    Since palaeomerus brought it up, how many of those “48 million uninsured” have insurance now? About 100K the last time I heard. Unfortunately, Zero Care has also created 5 million MORE people without insurance. Next year it gets worse. Far worse.

  144. Pablo says:

    I still haven’t heard your grand plan to allocate organs better than how it’s done now.

    Doing nothing is not an option anymore, is it Slappy? We have to do pick one of the proggy options that isn’t the status quo, just because, and no matter what the consequences are! Right, asshole?

    “the government can’t take a dump without getting crap on everything in the bathroom.

    The government couldn’t couldn’t turn a profit on a whorehouse.

  145. Pablo says:

    This is the kind of shit that will, before you know it, have people here saying, “Slappy, show me where anyone here every said that organs should be auctioned to the highest bidder. Liebot!!!”

    Your organs should be sold to the highest bidder, liebot.

  146. Mueller says:

    So Steve. Your basic premise is that the government can provide healthcare services much more efficiently and fairly than the private sector.
    That is the gist of what you’re laying out, yes?

    You are wrong.

  147. serr8d says:

    ObamaCare is committing suicide. The website’s (built-in) structural defects are insurmountable. There was no possible way it was going to work on launch day; no way it can operate smoothly on relaunch Nov. 30. Data security? Not considered even as an afterthought it seems.

    The costs to individuals and families (recall promises that we’d save $2500 per policy, with better coverage?) will drain small business and family accounts. There’ll be more people uninsured than before because existing policy cancellations effective early 2014, and a new wave of 80 plus millions as the year progresses.

    This ‘health care’ program is a modern trojan horse. Inside is Obama’s real agenda. We’ll see what’s inside it soon enough.

  148. Mueller says:

    OK, Steve, Let’s take transplantable organs as an example.
    How is the ACA going to apportion this scarce resource in a fair and efficient manner?
    As opposed to the way it is done now.

  149. Mueller says:

    serr8ed
    I wish I knew chaos theory better but it looks like we are witnessing a cascading series of failures. Ones which, even though the original cause might be repaired, have taken on a course of their own leading to more failures. You sometimes find this in mechanical systems that have been poorly engineered.

  150. SBP says:

    “How is the ACA going to apportion this scarce resource in a fair and efficient manner?”

    If it’s the way they do it in China, Slaphead better hope he’s not a tissue match for any government official.

  151. helloiamamotherlessfish says:

    *burble*

  152. John Bradley says:

    How is the ACA going to apportion this scarce resource in a fair and efficient manner?

    Decisions made by uninterested third parties are the best decisions!

  153. serr8d says:

    Oh! Andrew McCarthy helpfully describes what’s inside the ObamaTrojanCare..

    In 2003, when he was an ambitious Illinois state senator from a hyper-statist district, Obama declared:

    I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health-care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. . . . Everybody in, nobody out. A single-payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. That’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately.

    That is the Obamacare scheme.

    It is a Fabian plan to move an unwilling nation, rooted in free enterprise, into Washington-controlled, fully socialized medicine. As its tentacles spread over time, the scheme (a) pushes all Americans into government markets (a metastasizing blend of Medicare, Medicaid, and “exchanges” run by state and federal agencies); (b) dictates the content of the “private” insurance product; (c) sets the price; (d) micromanages the patient access, business practices, and fees of doctors; and (e) rations medical care. Concurrently, the scheme purposely sows a financing crisis into the system, designed to explode after Leviathan has so enveloped health care, and so decimated the private medical sector, that a British- or Canadian-style “free” system — formerly unthinkable for the United States — becomes the inexorable solution.

    Inexorable or…else. I’m thinking that with the economic time bomb ticking away, ‘else’ is as likely a result as Single Payer.

  154. serr8d says:

    Because “do as I say, or else so help me, I’ll have Oprah call you racists.”, this is not OT.

    This is good. Damned good.

  155. Slartibartfast says:

    I still haven’t heard your grand plan to allocate organs better than how it’s done now.

    There are no problems for which more government is not a solution.

  156. Ernst Schreiber says:

    After skimming through hellomynameisthecommitteeforcentralplanning’s comments, one could hardly be faulted for concluding that steve thinks the only thing holding back the Obama economic boom is the lack of a five-year plan.

    Which is all Republicans’ fault. Because their plan to let market forces operate isn’t really a plan at all since no government planning is involved, and that’s the very definition of a plan.

  157. Brilliant, palaeomerus, bloody brilliant.

  158. Pablo says:

    Well yes, Ernst. There is only government and nihilism. Government leaving the market alone is not an option, says the “market research” guy.

  159. Pablo says:

    This is good. Damned good.

    Indeed it is.

  160. Jim says:

    The law looks like an obvious catastrophe. I’m at a loss. Can anyone give me a list of talking points I can use to convince my relatives that it’s a great law this Thanksgiving? Don’t really care whether it really is a good law. Just want to convince others that it is because I love Barack Obama and hate Sarah Palin (and my uncle Marv for that matter.) Basically, Obama’s so cool it hurts and he loves poor people and Palin’s uncool and doesn’t care about pregnant teens. So, I’m in. Just give me the list of points.

  161. Jim says:

    Or at least a list of some pretty bad Bush stuff to use instead. Thx!

  162. leigh says:

    says the “market research” guy.

    I’m throwing the bullshit flag on that one, too.

    Unless he’s part of the Ministry of Propaganda, steve is most likely a communications major (read: beer pong champ) at a second tier college.

  163. McGehee says:

    Decisions made by uninterested third parties without input from the interested parties are the best decisions!

    FTFY.

  164. geoffb says:

    Ah yes, let’s change patients from paying customers to business expenses. What could possibly go wrong?!

    Decisions made by uninterested third parties without input from the interested parties are the best decisions!

    Similarly.

    Serious security weaknesses in the Internal Revenue Service’s data system have left millions of taxpayers’ sensitive financial information vulnerable to hackers.

    The agency claims it has fixed the problem, but its auditors beg to differ.
    […]
    The auditors said the IRS never tracked its progress on the repairs, and in many cases, it closed cases without submitting documentation to prove the fix was complete. The auditors blamed it on “weakened management controls.”

    The report also found that the agency didn’t properly scan servers—which contain taxpayer information– for “major vulnerabilities,” or properly lock user accounts, and it did not update software on databases.

    “When the right degree of security diligence is not applied to systems, disgruntled insiders or malicious outsiders can exploit security weaknesses and may gain unauthorized access,” Treasury Inspector General J. Russell George said.
    […]
    The auditor’s warning comes 4 ½ months after the IRS inadvertently posted thousands of Social Security numbers on a government website.
    […]
    The sense of urgency shared by the auditors and taxpayers alike, however, is apparently not shared by managers at the IRS.

    For the IRS taxpayers are a crop to be harvested. Only their customers, the federal government, are important. Under Obamacare or its planned for successor, a single payer system, sick patients will be considered even lower than a crop, they will be pests which must be eradicated to save crop from being eaten away.

  165. BigBangHunter says:

    – Direct evidence the Proggies are fucking liars.

    – If they truly believed in seperation of church and state this wouldn’t even be at issue.

    – They will scream and fight to keep a single cruxcifix off school property, but at the same time try to inact underhanded anti-religeous legislation at every opportunity. Religeous bigots is what they are.

  166. Jim says:

    Let’s see. Wants total power. Very destructive. Hates God. Hates people who love Jesus. That reminds me of someone.

  167. BigBangHunter says:

    – Yet another underhanded ploy by the lying Progtards.

  168. sdferr says:

    Angelo Codevilla: The Physics of Party Government

    *** It took Woodrow Wilson a century and a quarter, and help from Harry Reid. But America now has what Wilson said we needed in 1885: government by a majority party empowered to do whatever it wants to push the country along the paths of progress – just like in Europe. ***

  169. Slartibartfast says:

    Wong Wei pursued hotly but was unable to close on target.

  170. leigh says:

    Our tax dollars at work in Michigan public schools.

  171. bgbear says:

    Hah, the joke is on the “dreamers” who fled one party rule in the home country.

  172. helloiamamotherlessfish says:

    It’s easy, if you try.

  173. palaeomerus says:

    Well, we just imagined throwing organs into the street and letting people fight over them as the only possible alternative to Obamacare regs as proffered by Sibelius (and yet were trumped by a federal judge).

  174. leigh says:

    So, when you grab a pair of lungs out of the heap, do you take them home and stick them in ‘frig while you call your butcher to schedule an appointment? Do they need to be held in a bowl of water?

  175. dicentra says:

    A bowl of distilled water, leigh.

    Sheez, some people don’t know anything.

  176. bgbear says:

    or for a heart, as in distill my beating heart

  177. McGehee says:

    Spleens are a different matter. They’re a dime a dozen on the Internet.

  178. leigh says:

    A bowl of distilled water, leigh.

    Well, dang. You’d think I’d know that from working in the blood bank.

  179. BigBangHunter says:

    The problem is not with the deal struck in Geneva but how it was done.

    – That could easily be the tagline for the entirety of the Obamas rule.

  180. BigBangHunter says:

    – His speech today, which was supposed to be on jobs turned into yet another sales pitch on OCare and whining about bad bad Republicans.

    – Well why not, since theres not much job creation to talk about.

  181. leigh says:

    If there are so many problems to be handled, then why doesn’t he get his boney ass back to the WH and quit screwing around at Universal Studios?

    Karzai is whinging about not liking the deal with the US and threatening to alter it. Someone should bust a cap in his ass.

  182. dicentra says:

    We should pray he doesn’t alter it further.

  183. geoffb says:

    Goals, the personal/political.

    h/t sdferr

    The negotiations with the Iranians that culminated in Saturday night’s agreement went on for a year.

    And yet, the final deal reflects Iran’s opening positions.

    That is, over the course of the entire year, American and European negotiators were not able to move Iran’s positions one iota.

    So what has the Obama administration been doing for the past year? Since Iran’s positions were the same all along, why didn’t they sign this deal a year ago?
    […]
    So what did Obama need the last year for? If he wasn’t concerned with getting a less dangerous deal, and he didn’t care what the American people though about his facilitation of Iran’s nuclear weapons program, what prevented him from okaying the agreement last year? To ascertain the answer, it is worth considering Finance Minister Yair Lapid’s comments Sunday morning. Beyond noting the nuclear deal’s danger to Israel’s security, Lapid said, “I am worried not only over the deal but that we have lost the world’s attention.”

    And indeed, Israel has lost the world’s attention. Its appropriately deep concerns over Iran’s nuclear behavior were belittled, ignored and derided, first and foremost by the Obama administration. Worse than belittling Israel’s concerns, which are completely shared by the Sunni Arab world, Obama and Kerry have castigated as warmongers those Americans who agree with Israel’s concerns and have attacked them as traitors who seek to push America into an unnecessary war. At the same time, they have presented the dispute as one of Israel against the rest of the world, ignoring that the Sunni Arab world shares Israel’s concerns.
    […]
    Over the past year, Obama has engaged in systematically weakening Israel’s position both regionally and in Washington. Regionally, the US has forced Israel into talks with the Palestinians that are engineered to weaken Israel strategically and diplomatically. The US has delegitimized Israel’s legal rights to sovereignty and self-defense, while effectively justifying Palestinian terrorism as a legitimate response to Israeli actions – which themselves were perfectly legal. So, too, the US has given a green light to the EU’s illegal, discriminatory economic war against Israel.

    Beyond that, the Obama administration has significantly expanded the prospect of war between Israel and Syria by leaking Israeli strikes against Syrian targets that posed a threat to Israel’s security.

    The US has also weakened Israel’s capacity to take steps short of war to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear weapons possessing state by leaking key components of Israel’s covert operations against Iran’s nuclear program.

    Both the big Satan and the little Satan are to be destroyed. It is his life’s work, and it is so close to being done he can almost taste the sweetness of the moment to come soon.

  184. sdferr says:

    Surely there is a sweetness already obtained– merely in the accomplishment of deeds of which the Americans would want no part at all, and accomplishing these right under the very noses of the imbeciles he leads. The clever find their rewards in secrecy, though these little neuronal squirts of glee needn’t be the whole of his celebration.

  185. leigh says:

    leigh says “probably”. However, Iranians are liars, so who are you gonna believe?

  186. BigBangHunter says:

    The Iranian “deal” is total agitprop horseshit, hustled into place at a time when some positive news, anything, is desperately needed.

    – It won’t matter to Bumblefucks falling numbers, and it just gives Iran even more ways to cheat.

    – Hellofajob Barry!

  187. Thanks to GeoffB and Sdferr for alerting me to the Caroline Glick article.

    I was able to use it to bolster a theory of mine.

  188. newrouter says:

    The fact that the establishment gave the task of
    defending its positions to the usual political and journalistic hacks
    was probably a case of Hobson’s choice in an emergency, but it
    gained it nothing and was just one further error, since those gentlemen’s
    standards are notorious. As could be expected, they immediately
    brought into play against the Charter a whole set of slanders,
    distortions, abuse, half-truths and absolute falsehoods which all
    represent the dismal range of their capacity. Ispeak from experience
    as one who has been a favourite target for their sort of behaviour for
    the past thirty years, and who could well lay claim to the laurels of
    seniority and worthy service. Though the powers that be may not
    know it, or rather, would sooner not know it, nay, cannot afford to
    know it (for where else would they find more obedient, unscrupulous
    and servile creatures), the media are the principal, albeit
    unintentional, creators and encouragers of opposition, since they
    are totality suspect and nobody believes them. People almost automatically
    take for gospel the opposite of what the papers say. Once
    all-powerful, the media were capable of pointing the finger that
    condemned people to death. As they lost all credibility they also lost
    some of their power, and at the very least were obliged to change
    their methods, if not their ends. Nowadays, they do not directly fix
    the noose around people’s necks, but they do endeavour t

    poptl page 127

  189. newrouter says:

    Seen from the outside, and chiefly from the vantage point of the
    system and its power structure, Charter 77 came as a surprise, as a
    bolt out ofthe blue. It was not a boIt out of the blue, of course, but
    that impression is understandable, since the ferment that led to it
    took place in the ‘hidden sphere’, in that semi-darkness where things
    are difficult to chart or analyse. The chances of predicting the
    appearance of the Charter were just as slight as the chances are now
    of predicting where it will lead. Once again, it was that shock, so
    typical of moments when something from the hidden sphere
    suddenly bursts through the moribund surface of ‘living within a
    lie’. The more one is trapped in the world of appearances, the more
    surprising it is when something like that happens.

  190. newrouter says:

    In societies under the post-totalitarian system, all political life in the
    traditional sense has been eliminated. People have no opportunity
    to express themselves politically in public, let alone to organize
    politically. The gap that results is filled by ideological ritual. In such
    a situation, people’s interest in political matters naturally dwindles
    and independent political thought, in so far as it exists at all, is seen
    by the majority as unrealistic, far-fetched, a kind of self-indulgent
    game, hopelessly distant from their everyday concerns; something
    admirable, perhaps, but qui.te pointless, because it is on the one
    hand entirely utopian and on the other hand extraordinarily
    dangerous, in view of the unusual vigour with which any move in
    that direction is persecuted by the regime.
    Yet even in such societies, individuals and groups of people exist
    who do not abandon politics as a vocation and who, in one way or
    another, strive to think independently, to express themselves and in
    some cases even to organize politically, because that is a part of their
    attempt to live within the truth.

  191. Ernst Schreiber says:

    I don’t have a comment. I just don’t want newrouter to feel like he’s talking to himself like some fucked up nutjob

    /smirk

  192. newrouter says:

    i be crazy digging up stuff. more swiss cake rolls pronto!

  193. helloiamamotherlessfish says:

    “Kate Bush and her label Fish People.”

    *pwop*

  194. serr8d says:

    Kate Bush, Thanksgiving and the Constitution

    Jefferson and Madison did indeed oppose even generalized, non-disciminatory governmental support for religion. But as then-Justice Rehnquist pointed out in his dissenting opinion in Wallace v. Jaffree, one cannot equate the public meaning of the Establishment Clause with the views of Jefferson and Madison, most obviously because they were not the only founders.

    If we seek evidence of the broadly shared public view of the meaning of the Establishment Clause at the time of the Founding, we find not an insistence on strict separation of church and state but instead a largely uncontroversial willingness to see the government act in a non-coercive and non-discriminatory manner to encourage religious belief and practice.

    This brings us to Thanksgiving and the country’s tradition of presidential proclamations of thanksgiving. As Rehnquist observes in his Wallace dissent, the First Congress—the same Congress that Madison led in drafting the Establishment Clause—passed a resolution asking President George Washington to proclaim a day of thanksgiving for the nation. Washington complied, and his proclamation of October 3, 1789, is as clear an example as one could wish of government encouragement of religion.

    Cheers!

  195. serr8d says:

    Obama’s bad Dreams

    Trust: We know ObamaCare was sold on a lie, but what about the Obama presidency itself? Rumors that Obama’s violent leftist pal Bill Ayers ghostwrote the memoir that launched his political career may actually be true.

  196. Hey, Newrouter, is the document you are quoting from available online?

  197. In case I am unable to get on the Innerwebs tomorrow…

    A Happy Thanksgiving to you all and your families.

    I am very thankful that you all have been so kind in welcoming me here.

  198. Bob,
    Ain’t ya heard? This year it’s Happy Thanksgivukkah!

  199. leigh says:

    Happy Thanksgiving, Bob.

  200. palaeomerus says:

    Maybe it’s just me, but that “Running up that Hill ” song lyrics sure make it sound a lot like it’s about a lady talking to her dude about him maybe getting stuck with a martial aid some night if he’s game.

  201. palaeomerus says:

    Oh and happy Thanksgiving. The small frozen turkey that came with the overpriced pre-sliced glazed ham is thawing out in the icebox.

  202. leigh says:

    martial aid?

    Like a bayonet lug?

  203. leigh says:

    Hag Hanukkah Sameach!

  204. JohnInFirestone says:

    re: newrouter’s 11/26 4:39 link

    Why, it’s almost as if Jeff were onto something when he warns us that “how we get there matters” or the ends don’t justify the means.

  205. BigBangHunter says:

    – ….Or maybe we should just sit quietly while the pols duke it out, because, you know, whatever they do in the end we’ll just find ways to frustrate every effort to force the markets and control things because we’re very good at turning a profit. If things get to dicey we’ll just drop healthcare coverage altogether. Whats the Obama gestoppo going to do, make us write policies at the point of a gun? Oh wait, the Proggies don’t have any guns. They’re so helpful and stupid that way.”

  206. BigBangHunter says:

    “Hey, I convinced some homeless dude that his magical sky god doesn’t exist. I feel so much better now.”

    “….’Tis the season to be mean spirited and miserable.”

  207. leigh says:

    Happy Thanksgiving, y’all!

    I’ll be back after I run some last minute errands.

  208. BigBangHunter says:

    – Have a great Turkey-day Leigh!

  209. Somewhat OT–My younger brother had an epiphany: The Democrat and Republican party apparatchiks are rival professional wrestling promoters.

  210. palaeomerus says:

    Ooooh. So he’s the pope of the Socialist Church. I thought he was the pope of the Catholic Church. My bad.

  211. geoffb says:

    Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

    Courtesy of your oh so, self described as, kind Democrats.

    You can thank them later.

  212. leigh says:

    Feh.

    I heard a caller on Rush’s show proclaim that in lieu of chastising the family about Ocare, he was going to read the story of the first Thanksgiving to the grandkids.

    Outlaw!

  213. leigh says:

    Happy TG, BBH!

  214. Drumwaster says:

    the story of the first Thanksgiving

    Was that the one where if the “commonwealth” colonists hadn’t turned into capitalists, they would have starved to death? Tragedy of the Commons wasn’t just a hypothetical…

  215. leigh says:

    I’m not certain, Drum. The caller was going to read from Rush’s new book which is written for 10-13 year olds.

    The Puritans weren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer in the early days, that’s for sure.

Comments are closed.