February 14, 2013

“Missouri Dems Introduce Legislation to Confiscate Firearms — Gives Gun Owners 90 Days to Turn in Weapons”

Gateway Pundit:

Missouri Democrats introduced an anti-gun bill which would turn law-abiding firearm owners into criminals. They will have 90 days to turn in their guns if the legislation is passed.

Dana Loesch Radio reported on the new legislation being pushed by Missouri Democrats:

Any person who, prior to the effective date of this law, was legally in possession of an assault weapon or large capacity magazine shall have ninety days from such effective date to do any of the following without being subject to prosecution.

Here’s part of the Democratic proposal in Missouri:

4. Any person who, prior to the effective date of this law, was legally in possession of an assault weapon or large capacity magazine shall have ninety days from such effective date to do any of the following without being subject to prosecution:

(1) Remove the assault weapon or large capacity magazine from the state of Missouri;

(2) Render the assault weapon permanently inoperable; or

(3) Surrender the assault weapon or large capacity magazine to the appropriate law enforcement agency for destruction, subject to specific agency regulations.

5. Unlawful manufacture, import, possession, purchase, sale, or transfer of an assault weapon or a large capacity magazine is a class C felony.

But remember:  the “legitimate media” has been directed by no less than the VP to tell you that it’s a flat out lie – “malarkey,” I believe was the term used — that this Administration is looking to take away your firearms.  Which in a sense is true:  instead, they are relying  on their lackeys in the state governments to take the hit for them by offering up such proposals.

Fortunately, such a blatantly unconstitutional bill is likely to get laughed out of the Republican-controlled MO State Legislature.  And one could make the argument that, if anything, such overreach actually makes any kind of feel-good, good-faith, “common-sense” GOP compromise that much more unlikely.

Meaning, the MO Dems are actually doing the citizens of their state a bit of a service by showcasing a radicalism that gives the GOP cover to refuse to take them seriously in the first place.

Whereas here in Colorado (and Minnesota) there’s a chance the Dem-led legislature, despite massive protests, will follow NY’s lead and pass anti-gun legislation that our Governor Hickenlooper — an adept of Bloomberg’s Mayors Against Gun Violence The Second Amendment and Natural Rights — will happily sign into law, though both the Mayor of my town and the county governing board have sided with our Sheriffs, who’ve said they will not enforce any such law regarding gun ownership that they deem unconstitutional or its face.

If that’s the case, I expect the Dems to lose seats in the state legislature, and perhaps we can finally get a conservative governor who will run on a fidelity to the duties of a public official to uphold the Constitution and protect individual liberties — rather than play at despot and social engineer.

Which would be a happy latent outcome.

(h/t JHo)

 

Posted by Jeff G. @ 12:02pm
72 comments | Trackback

Comments (72)

  1. ‘Ol conspiratorial me, I can’t get over the feeling the whole Dorner thing was a performative exercise to show no matter how many assault weapons you have, resistance is futile.

    It’s funny, these are probably the same people that tell us there are too many illegal aliens to even consider deporting them all…

  2. Except reistance wasn’t futile –this was Django dying for your sins, sticking it to the man, like in a Denzel Washington movie. Billy Jack wants to be Dorner when he grows up. Dorner will be more legendary than the Omega Man!

  3. I’m still encouraging them to go for it, wholeheartedly, with gusto. After complaining for so long that the GOP can’t seem to find a hill worth dying on, I’m happy to see the DFL find theirs.

    This is your hill, my liberal friends. Die with honor!

  4. I thought they would get around to using Dorner as an example of how the “evil” of these war-weapons can cause even our vets and ex-cops to go crazy and kill. I still think they may do so in the end.

    In a piece of good news, “Heavy hitters support SAF motion to Supreme Court on carry case.”

    The Bellevue-based Second Amendment Foundation is getting some heavyweight support in its petition to the Supreme Court for a Writ of Certiorari in a case challenging the gun permitting statute in the State of New York; a case that will have national impact because it could affect every concealed carry statute in the nation.

    Supporting the motion are 20 state attorneys general,
    [...]
    Attorneys general who have signed onto an amicus were led by Virginia Attorney General Kenneth Cuccinelli. They represent Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Michigan, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and West Virginia.

    In addition, supporting amicus briefs have also been filed by the Center for Constitutional Jurisprudence represented by former Attorney General Edwin Meese III, the National Rifle Association represented by former Solicitor General Paul D. Clement, plus the American Civil Rights Union, Academics for the Second Amendment, Cato Institute, the Second Amendment Preservation Association, New Jersey Second Amendment Society and Commonwealth Second Amendment, Inc.

    The case is Kachalsky v. Cacace, filed by SAF and five private citizens in the Empire State who are challenging New York’s arbitrary and capricious permitting system. They are represented by Alan Gura, the attorney who won both the Heller and McDonald cases before the Supreme Court in 2008 and 2010, respectively. The McDonald case was also filed by SAF.

  5. Except reistance wasn’t futile

    I don’t know Ernst. If that big psycho with not only police training, but a war veteran with all kinds of assault rifles (so many he was leaving some behind) grenades, tons of ammo, and the support of his community can’t escape, what chance does little old me have, when the police come for my gun?

    That’s the lesson.

  6. Peace is our value.

  7. Colorado and Magpul.

  8. As you know, I live in Missouri. Republicans have veto proof majorities in the Missouri House and Senate so this is going nowhere. It is useful to know just how far some elected officials want to go and serves as an excellent riposte to those who say they only seek reasonable restrictions. I’m not sure if my favorite part of this bill is that it would effectively outlaw any weapon that can accept a magazine or that the penalties would apply to “citizens legally in possession” of this very broad range of firearms. No particular interest in and certianly no additional penalty for those who may already illegally possess them. Got it.

    There was a similar story a couple of weeks ago about a Missouri Democrat introducing legislation to require anyone with a gun to inform their children’s school that they had the gun. Again, going nowhere but it accomplished her goal of getting her name and picture to lead off the news that night.

    It is worth noting that our recently reelected governor (Jay Nixon) was, as the Missouri AG, at the courthouse seeking injunctions within hours of all legislation passed which expanded the rights of gun owners. Once he started running for governor he sought out the CCW crowd for their support claiming to have changed his mind. We’ll see.

  9. [W]hat chance does little old me have, when the police come for my gun?

    I really don’t know. I suspect it will vary, depending on where you live, who your neighbors are, and what you’ve been doing with your gun before the police come for it.

    To say nothing of how the police have gone about confiscating other people’s guns prior to coming for yours.

    And anyways, my point, such as it is, is merely to point out that the elite Left and the populist Left are on opposing pages regarding the Dorner narrative. Hard to be both anti-authoritarian folk hero and assault weapon wielding psycho villian at the same time.

    Of course, never underestimate the power of liberal double-think.

  10. I’m sure Texas would be happy to have Magpul.

  11. Texas, “All your companies will belong to us.”

  12. I didn’t go to the Missouri where this proposal would be found remotely amusing. I’m a have to go back and find the pussy parts.

  13. To say nothing of how the police have gone about confiscating other people’s guns prior to coming for yours.

    This shit is the first phase of confiscation. Get the idea out there. Tell of how reasonable people on both sides of the issue can debate in good faith.

    The conversation moves from “what part of shall not infringe don’t you understand?” to “how much infringement is necessary”

    Here, a quote I posted a couple days ago explains how it works:

    “For the elite of his day, and for the monetary elite today, the Hegelian dialectic provides tools for the manipulation of society.

    To move the public from point A to point B, one need only find a spokesperson for a certain argument and position him or her as an authority. That person represents Goalpost One. Another spokesperson is positioned on the other side of the argument, to represent Goalpost Two.

    Argument A and B can then be used to manipulate a given social discussion. If one wishes, for instance, to promote Idea C, one merely needs to promote the arguments of Goalpost One (that tend to promote Idea C) more effectively than the arguments of Goalpost Two. This forces a slippage of Goalpost Two’s position. Thus both Goalpost One and Goalpost Two advance downfield toward Idea C. Eventually, Goalpost Two occupies Goalpost One’s original position. The “anti-C” argument now occupies the pro-C position. In this manner whole social conversations are shifted from, say, a debate over market freedom vs. socialism to a debate about the degree of socialism that is desirable.

    The Hegelian dialectic is a powerful technique for influencing the conversations of cultures and nations, especially if one already controls (owns) much of the important media in which the arguments take place. One can then, as the monetary elite characteristically do, emphasize one argument at the expense of the other, effectively shifting the positions of Goalposts One and Two.”
    – Daily Bell, Hegelian Dialectic

  14. Start thinking about it, this Hegelian Dialectic thing goes a long ways to explaining Karl, W, John, Willard, and the GOP.

    JFK was to the right of most republicans in congress today.

  15. So move the goal posts by introducing a bill repealing the restrictions on private ownership of automatic and selective-fire weapons and supressors.

  16. The Master Slave dialectic is worth a read on its own terms. It’s pretty powerful stuff up close and personal.

  17. Hegelian Dialectic

    sounds like the overton window

  18. So move the goal posts by introducing a bill repealing the restrictions on private ownership of automatic and selective-fire weapons and supressors.

    Sure. Also introduce a bill to round up all the illegal aliens and deport them. Oops, there’s too many, we can’t do that! What we need is “immigration reform”.

    See how it works?

    To your point Ernst, the only people on our side with balls are the sheriffs that declared they would not enforce any federal gun grab schemes. All I’ve heard from the fucking GOP is “we [meaning DC] need to find solutions”. Much less going for expanded gun rights, our fearless leaders can’t find enough sack to parrot the second amendment.

  19. Our governor in MN would happily sign such a law, too. And, contrary to Squid, I can see it passing.

  20. Sure. Also introduce a bill to round up all the illegal aliens and deport them. Oops, there’s too many, we can’t do that! What we need is “immigration reform”.
    See how it works?

    Sure. Make the door swing the other way.

    If we can’t deport the illegals because there’s too many, how are we going to confiscate all the guns, when there’s way more guns than there are illegals?

  21. Our governor in MN would happily sign such a law, too. And, contrary to Squid, I can see it passing.

    That’s going tocontingent upon the extent to which gun owners in the outstate regions owning traditional sporting arms feel like their shotguns, bolt-guns, lever guns are next in line for the gun grabbers gun grabbing.

  22. If we can’t deport the illegals because there’s too many, how are we going to confiscate all the guns, when there’s way more guns than there are illegals?

    Yeah, that was one reason I used that example. It’s the same people say both.

    Cognitive dissonance is a feature for proggs. The ideas aren’t really important except to move the goalposts. As you said, today they say it’s assault rifles only. That idea will be discarded the second it’s realized, and the new position will be all semi-autos.

  23. Any person who, prior to the effective date of this law, was legally in possession of an assault weapon or large capacity magazine shall have ninety days from such effective date to do any of the following without being subject to prosecution.

    Um, not to dirty up the comment section here, but I believe that the appropriate reply to this kind of nonsense is to say “Suck my dick” and then punch the offenders in the nads. Hard.

  24. As you said, today they say it’s assault rifles only. That idea will be discarded the second it’s realized, and the new position will be all semi-autos.

    Which is why we need pushback. Hell, I wish some of the several states would decide to emulate Switzerland.

    How about a real Michigan Militia?

  25. Greetings:

    Last night, I saw an announcement on KQED, one of our local Progressive (née Public) Broadcasting System stations that next week the will be having their “Please, sir, more gun control” extravaganza with programming involving two of their major programming series, “Frontline” and “NOVA”. “Frontline” was no real surprise as it routinely hews left of left of center but “NOVA” was as it is often funded by David Koch of the infamously unleftist “Koch Brothers” infamy.

    The announcement came just before a NOVA program entitled “Earth from Space” which was about all the scientific data being accumulated by satellites. I managed to stay awake for the first 90 minutes (of two hours) and it was well done and not another beating with the global warming/climate change/climate whatever propaganda stick.

    I would have thought that someone somewhere in a marketing department or two would have expressed some feigned or otherwise concern about damaging the brand, but I guess that when our Pied Piping President calls his tune all his media munchkins can’t help but line up for the parade.

  26. PBS focuses on Newtown, Gun Control

    This one is my favorite:

    Guns USA will trace the evolution of guns in America, their inextricable link to violence, and the clash of cultures that reflect competing visions of our national identity.

    I would have thought man was inextricably linked to violence, since we seemed to have been quite adept at killing and maiming one another before guns made us more efficient at it. But I’m just a humble historian, so what do I know?

  27. How about a real Michigan Militia?

    How about the South Carolina Militia?

  28. So does this mean if you were ILLEGALLY in possession of said items, then you’re okey dokey?

    Why, YES, I think it does.

    Face it. They’re going to make criminals of us no matter what, so let’s adopt the same attitude that criminals do.

    (revival seems necessary)
    OUTLAW!

  29. “what chance does little old me have, when the police come for my gun”

    Dorner killed two cops and wounded four others before going down.

    ~100 million gun owners in the U.S., only ~700,000 cops (far from all of whom would be down with confiscation anyway).

  30. California police chief: The idea that a gun is a defensive weapon is a ‘myth’

    I guess that means all his cops are always attacking people.

  31. “A gun is an offensive weapon used to intimidate and show power,” he asserted, explaining to the audience that police officers don’t carry weapons to defend themselves, but to do their job in a “safe and effective manner.”

    I’m telling you, cognitive dissonance is a feature for proggs.

  32. That guy Gauleiter ought to be fired immediately, for the good of the community.

  33. “used to intimidate and show power”

    So I guess that whole “To Serve And Protect” thingy is just a load of crap.

  34. Yeah, our Democras are just as fascist as everyone else’s. They’re just not in charge. Thankfully.

  35. Trumped. You lose, white boy.

  36. crandy-d, pardon my language, but what the fuck happened in Minnesota? Is the GOP so sad in MN they cannot beat a demonstrably crazy Democrat in the gubernatorial election?

    LBascom, Dorner allowed himself to be isolated in a rural area. Had Dorner kept his head down and headed to the rougher parts of LA, he would still be on the run. Dorner also advertised. Another bad idea.

    The cops should take note that it took a thousand cops (based on one report I read) or so to take down one armed loudmouth crazy man. Imagine what happens if 4 or 5 people get PO’d to the point they decide to quitly start “taking care of business.”

    The cops knew going in who was after them. Doesn’t pay to advertise.

  37. Except reistance wasn’t futile –this was Django dying for your sins, sticking it to the man, like in a Denzel Washington movie. Billy Jack wants to be Dorner when he grows up. Dorner will be more legendary than the Omega Man!

    T-shirts of Dorner striking the ‘Che’ pose will be de rigueur among the “Urban” set in California and elsewhere.

  38. Found an interesting link, with a chart and a link to a 1993 piece, about this 1993 essay.

    The misnamed progressives idea of progress is to move us all back in time. Back to when it was possible to write about “A Nation of Cowards.” They need that to be the truth because if it isn’t then what Solzhenitsyn wrote of, which this good comment quoted, can come into play when they get their total power on.

    Sorry for the ping-ponging of links but all I think are worthy of a look.

  39. Anyone who knows how to silk-screen “MOLON LABE” onto flags might want to set up shop in MO for a spell.

  40. york arms

    The company’s statement:

    Based on the recent legislation in New York, we are prohibited from selling rifles and receivers to residents of New York.

    We have chosen to extend that prohibition to all governmental agencies associated with or located within New York.

    As a result we have halted sales of rifles, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, machine guns, and silencers to New York governmental agencies.

    For “civilian” customers residing in New York: At your choice, we will:

    Complete your order and ship to a dealer of your choice outside of NY.Refund your payment in full.Hold your items here for up to 6 months, at no charge – if you are in the process of leaving NY and taking residence in another state.

    For LE/Govt customers in New York: Your orders have been cancelled.

    link

  41. york arms seem like very nice people somebody should buy them some popeye’s chicken for lunch extra spicy and don’t skimp on the biskits

  42. Dorner allowed himself to be isolated in a rural area. Had Dorner kept his head down and headed to the rougher parts of LA, he would still be on the run. Dorner also advertised. Another bad idea.

    Dorner fucked up by murdering two innocent people. I mean, killing the cops wasn’t heroic, but they at least were like enemy combatants in his made up drama. The young couple he killed has NO justification beyond pure evil.

    I hope that distinction is remembered when they pry the weapon from my cold, dead hands…

  43. How many cops and how many man-hours did it take for the inept cops to find a 300 pound black dude dressed like Rambo? 6 whole days and then only because the old couple dropped a dime on him when he stole their car.

    I wouldn’t sweat it.

  44. I wouldn’t sweat it

    Lest anyone misunderstand, I’m not wavering under the propaganda, but trying to show their ends, the mindset of what they are trying to accomplish.

    The proggs better be careful how hard they push gun control right now. They seem to think now is their time, but there’s still a lot of people around my age (my first vote was for Reagan) that still remember what America was. I think (hope) they have shown their cards too soon.

    Sargent York and Audy Murphy where my role models, not Beyonce and Bill Clinton. I watched John Wayne, the Rifleman, and played Danial Boone at the Alamo with real [BB]guns as a kid. What I did in grade school (instigating a mass squirt gun war at recess for example)…these days I woulda been expelled twenty times before I shaved that first wild hair off my chin in HS. Hell, in jr. high I would go duck hunting with my buddies after school (can/do rural kids still do that, or are they busy tweeting celebrities?).

    I think there’s still a lot of us that would rather go out a patriot, than like those poor old bastards dying in agony in a British hospital, only here, under a Bloomberg trying to save on painkillers to finance union largess.

    They know it too, is why they’ve bought up a billion and a half non-military rounds of ammo recently. THAT’S what worries me. I think it’s becoming obvious, they believe now is the time, and they’re going all in. They think we’re all pacified and cowed.

    Like I said, I hope they are pressing too hard, but I fear they know exactly where they are in the scheme of things.

    Know what I say? Fuck these wannabe tyrants. Molan Labe. Outlaw!

  45. I’m a few years younger than you, Lee, and there was still quite a bit of this spirit alive in rural children’s lives back in the ’80s and, hell, the early ‘9os, as best I remember. There were fewer western cowboys and more super heroes though. (It’s possible that played some small part as well, the transition from the specific historical hero to the abstract sort. I’m not at all sure of this.)

    I do wonder similar things overall.

    When you read a bit of history the refrain always seems to be that man is man and there is no changing him. That’s practically conservatism in a nutshell. But, things themselves do seem to be changing even if we’re hesitant to say that “men” as a class can’t. Is it perhaps possible that man will always be man but he can be conditioned otherwise for a long enough stretch to change the dynamic that has allowed our country to exist as this historical anomaly we call the United States? It certainly seems more and more possible every day.

    It’s one reason I wish we could approach things like mass sentiments and mores without moving towards weird (German!) macro approaches like kultur or academic sociology. There is something there but all the bungling (much of it driven intentionally) has left a mess of this to pick up.

  46. Is it perhaps possible that man will always be man but he can be conditioned otherwise for a long enough stretch to change the dynamic that has allowed our country to exist as this historical anomaly we call the United States?

    “Man” can barely define itself these days…

  47. My ability to express myself is nearly at the limit tonight but I did just read that earlier today and it was swirling around in my head in combination with sdferr’s mentions of Mansfield’s notions of manliness.

    There is something there. This appears evident to me. Don’t have anything worth adding myself as of yet though.

  48. [P]ardon my language, but what the fuck happened in Minnesota? Is the GOP so sad in MN they cannot beat a demonstrably crazy Democrat in the gubernatorial election?

    Jesse Ventura’s Independence Party, a misbegotton spawn of Ross Perot’s bastard Reform Party, a liberal former Republican named Tom Horner, and a bunch of Rockefeller Republican political has-beens happened to the Minnesota GOP.

  49. And to add to the list Ernst, surely decades of mis-education or mal-education have played a great role to prepare the people of Minnesota (they are not alone in this, of course) to make poor choices in their own governance. Not for nothing has Billy Ayres been focusing on the kiddies’ instructors: he knows what’s what in that respect.

  50. Electing Dayton was rational (if lazy). He’s like a giant toddler throwing a tantrum. He keeps running for office until you elect him to one and shut him up —for a while.

  51. They should try to make it a requirement for graduation.

  52. I said that before Ernst, and Sdferr told me that was a bad idea.

  53. Somehow I don’t recall that, and since I can’t remember anything of it, can’t say I didn’t either.

  54. My ability to express myself is nearly at the limit tonight but I did just read that [post linked by LBascom] earlier today and it was swirling around in my head in combination with sdferr’s mentions of Mansfield’s notions of manliness.
    There is something there. This appears evident to me. Don’t have anything worth adding myself as of yet though.

    Let me try to help you out.

    Our word virtue comes from the Latin noun Virtus, which means “manliness.”

    Discuss.

    Extra Credit: Why is the gender of a word for manliness feminine?

  55. Why is the gender of a word for manliness feminine?

    Heh.

    Recently saw the same question addressed to the terms animo (for “spiritedness” or thumos) and anima for soul (or psyche, we can guess). Harvey said he had no clue, is philological skills falling far short of such a reach, but that he didn’t reckon linguistic genders were necessarily associated with the “ideas” or “forms” (eide) of things. Mansfield though, doesn’t seem to think manliness a virtue as such, though he does seem to think it can be a material out of which to build virtue.

  56. Glenn Beck is reading the Missouri wanna-be law on the air right now on Friday morning.

  57. Well, I used the word mandatory instead of requirement, and ended up agreeing that half a loaf is better than none, if that helps.

  58. ah, that does help. I’ll go look.

  59. Ernst, I have never been to Minnesota so I am extrapolating from my experiences in other states here. Forgive me if I am off on a tangent.

    Does Minnesota have the same phenomenon that many states with large urban populations have? Mainly, the libs are confined to The Cities and the remaining towns are populated by ‘regular’ people? The Libs having access to media, both print and tv news outlets, overshadow the views of the rest of the state population. That population generally being diametrically opposed to the TRVTH as spoken by the mayor and city council.

    Not for nothing are the urban populations targeted by reality teevee shows like The First 48, a show which follows detectives in real time as they take a bite out of crime.

  60. That’s best answered with an illustration leigh.

    You shouldn’t have any problems spotting Minneapolis/St. Paul even though you’re looking at a state-by-county map.

  61. Just as I thought. Thanks.

  62. Has “WILL NOT TURN OUT WELL” stamped acrossit in big, international orange letters.

  63. I would add that the norther MN Democrats up on the Iron Range represent the old-school, blue-collar, iron mining Democrats of years gone by. They disagree with almost every social issue the MN DFL* serves up, but they simply can’t bring themselves to vote GOP, because they’ve been voting Labor since their father’s father’s father’s father got off the boat from Croatia or wherever. Plus, their legislators make a big effin’ noise about all the money they extort from the Cities in return for supporting their urban allies’ stupid programs.

    There are towns up on the Iron Range that pay almost no property tax at all, because they are allocated so much money in state aid. I can’t tell you how happy it makes me to know that my property taxes are held artificially high so that the people of Hibbing or Chisholm or Eveleth can have their own municipal ice arenas. It’s even better to know that this scheme came about because my idiot liberal legislator in St Paul needed their idiot legislator’s vote in order to raise my taxes even further for some other stupid waste of money. As I’ve mentioned before: the cost of earmarks isn’t about the stupid things they build; it’s about the really huge stupid programs they enable.

    FWIW, I work for a guy from the Range, and he finally got fed up enough to switch sides (it doesn’t hurt that he makes enough money now to be considered The Enemy). I just wish we could convince more of his fellow Rangers to follow his lead. If Walker keeps up the good fight next door, there’s a very good likelihood that I’ll be a cheesehead within a couple of years. Not having to cheer for the Purple Gang would be icing on the cake…

    (* DFL = Democrat/Farmer/Labor party, formed by merger of the three old parties)

  64. The Range is easily scene in the 2010 election map I linked earlier.

    They’ll never stop voting Democrat. It’s a dependent captive constituency up there.

  65. Ugh. wrong “seen”

  66. Scratching Missouri off the list of places I’d consider moving to.

  67. he didn’t reckon linguistic genders were necessarily associated with the “ideas” or “forms” (eide) of things.

    In German, the word for “boy” has a feminine gender; the word for girl, neuter.

    I like that English dropped the Germanic notion of gender for what some believe to be the Celtic: that the gender of the word follows the gender of the thing, and if the thing isn’t a member of a species that has sexes, it’s neuter.

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