November 30, 2012

Empowered cannon fodder?

This is actually quite interesting:  “The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), representing four military women and the activist Servicewomen’s Action Network (SWAN), has filed a San Francisco lawsuit demanding that female soldiers be forced into direct ground combat (infantry) battalions.”  This despite  “numerous studies and tests conducted over the past 30 years, in the direct ground combat environment” showing “women do not have an equal opportunity to survive, or to help fellow soldiers survive.”

So.  What takes precedence in the military? Civil rights law?  Or the protection of our forces and the best chances to achieve the military objective.

Personally, I believe that any woman who can pass the same preparedness tests as their male counterparts should be eligible for combat.  And those who cannot should not.

– Which is one of the things that has always fascinated me about these kinds of activist-feminist gambits:  the demand is always for equal inclusion as a civil right, and yet it is usually coupled with suggestions that special consideration (namely, a lowering of the standards for combat readiness among women soldiers) is required to level the playing field.   Meaning, women soldiers are being discriminated against if they aren’t allowed special dispensation to artificially bring them in line with their male counterparts. Or, to put it another way, equality must be made to exist, no matter how the deck is stacked to get it there.

I’m curious to see how this turns out.

Posted by Jeff G. @ 1:25pm
36 comments | Trackback

Comments (36)

  1. I’m pretty sure that ACLU/SWAN won’t rest until the U.S. has signed treaties with every nation and terrorist group on Earth, getting them all to promise they won’t work as hard to kill our female soldiers as the do to kill our men.

    No idea what we’d have to offer in return. My first idea was “topless Tuesdays” on the battlefield, but somehow I doubt ACLU/SWAN would go for that.

  2. Maybe somebody should invent a prick-seeking missile. It could give our infantrywomen an edge, and clean up the officer corps, all in one swell foop!

  3. How soon before they file lawsuits to have women in the SEALs and on subs? Immediately followed by A] complaints that the SEAL requirements are waaaay to tough (nevermind that most men don’t make it) , and B] complaints of sexual harassment/hostile work environment on subs because there’s so little space (shared bunks, tight passageways, etc.).

  4. Personally, I believe that any woman who can pass the same preparedness tests as their male counterparts should be eligible for combat. And those who cannot should not.

    ____________________________

    Fuck that. We can end this little tantrum by stipulating that if are to serve in combat, all girls must register for Selective Service.

    Girrrrrrrrllll Pwower!!!!

  5. And thus, America’s military collapse continues apace. Forward!

  6. they can get superstrong cyborg limbs grafted on with laser beams and gps screens and wear lightweight form-fitting body armor and pobably they’ll all look like michelle rodriguez

    that’s how i would implement this anyway

  7. *probably* i mean

    you go to war with the army you’ve got you know

  8. …all girls must register for Selective Service.

    I’m surprised that ACLU/SWAN didn’t file that suit ages ago.

  9. Greetings:

    On my civil rights “To Do” list.

    1) Sue the Federal (mis)Government to allow male soldiers to wear their hair at lengths similar to
    soldierettes. Fight the (barber) Power.

    2) Sue the Federal (mis)Government to allow male servicepersons to shower with females. After
    all, if it’s okay for homosexuals to shower with their sexual objects “por que no los
    heterosexuales” ???

    3) Sue the Federal (mis)Government for mixed gender sleeping areas. Just think of the unit and
    other cohesions that could be built.

    Busy, busy, busy.

  10. And why is it that an officer who screws his subordinates as a matter of course gets promoted, while an officer who screws his subordinates after hours gets reprimanded?

    UNFAIR!

  11. Deebow over at http://www.blackfive.net has a lot to say about it. An excerpt:

    And why in the world do these chicks want to be in the combat arms so bad? Do they have a mud fetish? Do they long to spend sleepless hours standing watch in a fox hole while their buddies snort and fart in their sleep underneath a poncho liner inches away in their patrol base? They have to check off “spend 3 hours putting 95 pound 155mm shells into a cannon and firing them” off their bucket list? They can’t live any longer until they have carried an 81mm mortar baseplate up the side of a mountain, along with part of the machine gunner’s ammunition and their own equipment after getting 2 hours of sleep in the last 36 hours?

    Go read the rest

  12. As soon as we make a mostly small arms proof, portable, strength and endurance enhancing exoskeleton women will have a place on a breaching team. Frankly I think we should be using robots for that shit. Imagine a modified “big dog” with a stainless ram on the front, and smoke launcher style mortar tubes facing all arcs smashes the door in, advances, drops and launches flashbangs, frags, incendiaries, smoke, claymores, tear gas, puke-juice…whatever you want loaded on it. All in a couple of seconds. THEN you send in the shot guns. Or maybe if it is more serious than that, big dog just tells the cruiser off shore where the missile needs to land.

  13. Ah, who am I kidding. Cruiser? We’ll probably have a mostly ‘stealthy littoral combat ship’ style navy by then.

  14. You need to be in a combat unit at some point if you want your career to advance apace. The problem was letting women into the regular armed forces in the first place. They used to be separate.

  15. It’s going to end with a lot of dead or hurt people, the way it always does when idiots force the wrong people into the wrong situations in the name of *insert random inane equality stance here*. Of course, this has more potential to kill people directly rather than indirectly, as just forcing women poorly-equipped (physically) into combat will get them and their squad mates killed much faster than, say, thrusting poorly-equipped students into engineering programs and watching their bridges and building collapse decades later.

  16. Any gender “victory” that leads to an increased chance of unnecessary casualties really makes me wonder how these dicks sleep at night.

    Ah, sorry, sorry! How these vaginas sleep at night.

  17. “Personally, I believe that any woman who can pass the same preparedness tests as their male counterparts should be eligible for combat.” Really? Simple answer is that they can’t meet those requirements. So where does that lead us?
    I weight trained for more than twenty years and in all that time I only met one female who could come close to lifting her own body weight, (she could lift her body weight, but not for reps). She was physically built like a man and had been a steriod user earlier on in her life. Compare that to men I trained with who consistantly lifted multiples of their own body weight, for reps.
    The other consideration is the mental toughness that combat requires. Some of that hardness can be taught, but there is a level of violence in men that is instinctual and that is the foundation that the military builds upon.

  18. And thus, America’s military collapse continues apace. Forward!

    Exactly. This is an attack on the American military. Plain and simple.

  19. “Personally, I believe that any woman who can pass the same preparedness tests as their male counterparts should be eligible for combat.” Really? Simple answer is that they can’t meet those requirements. So where does that lead us?

    Right where we are, with the exception of the one or two women who can meet the requirements?

  20. Simple answer is that they can’t meet those requirements. So where does that lead us?

    Changing the requirements. Duh.

  21. nothing about putting womens into battle what can’t be solved with a little American can-do attitude

    lol

  22. “Changing the requirements. Duh.” A 30 kilo pack is, (surprise!), 30 kilos and it doen’t make one whit of difference as to which back it is strapped. Add to that belt, weapon, vest and whatever personal gear etc. and you can understand the need for physical strength. All this is before one shot is fired.
    “nothing about putting womens into battle what can’t be solved with a little American can-do attitude ” /s Are you being sarcastic?
    “Right where we are, with the exception of the one or two women who can meet the requirements?” The real issue is that for some tasks mens bodies are better suited to the physical abuse that is meted out during combat.

  23. SAS train and carry 34 to 45.5 kilo packs plus body armour. I believe that if this was an idea that had a chance of wet fart in a hurricane of succeeding it would have been tried before. Amazonia notwithstanding.

  24. [...] and you can understand the need for physical strength [...] The real issue is that for some tasks mens bodies are better suited to the physical abuse that is meted out during combat.

    Gulermo, then surely the men can carry their ruck and some for the women.

    I have a feeling you’re not on board with equality, bigot.

  25. Women are prone to pelvic stress fractures associated with drills used in military training. Some years back, a woman officer, a doctor, addressed her concerns about women in combat and nearly lost her commission. I wish I could remember her name and find a link to her report.

    Spending months on crutches isn’t anyone’s idea of a good time.

  26. “I have a feeling you’re not on board with equality, bigot.” Equality; interesting choice of word.

  27. It’s all in keeping with the up is down, black is white motif America is living under…

  28. Just wait till they get “disparate impact” put into play in all of the law. I expect this idea to be one that will be pushed out more and more during the next 4 long years. Progressive wet dream and American societal collapse all in a tidy little package. What’s not to like?

  29. “I have a feeling you’re not on board with equality, bigot.”

    Oh they did rather well while the bullets held out,
    But assaults proved their steel a bit thin,
    And the gods of the copy book headings quipped,
    ” The mightier force tends to win. “

  30. A 30 kilo pack is, (surprise!), 30 kilos and it doen’t make one whit of difference as to which back it is strapped. Add to that belt, weapon, vest and whatever personal gear etc. and you can understand the need for physical strength.

    Obviously a kilo as currently valued is too heavy then. We just need to adjust the kilo to a less sexist amount.

  31. their amerikkka

    President Obama serves Mitt Romney white turkey

    and mittens goes to the slaughter willfully. lol

  32. First women drop out of Marines’ infantry training

    5:11PM EDT October 15. 2012 – The first two women to try to join the elite combat ranks of the U.S. Marines have dropped out of infantry training, the Marine Corps Times reports.

    A second lieutenant was dropped Friday because of unspecified medical reasons, a Marine official told the paper, published by Gannett, USA TODAY’s parent. It was not clear whether she was hurt or became ill. She had already conquered the punishing endurance test.

    “I want to try to open up a door, maybe, for women after me. I don’t know how far it will open, but I’m hoping to make a difference for women down the road,” she said in a statement. Neither she nor another second lieutenant, the first women to volunteer, were identified.

    The other officer dropped out Sept. 28 after not completing the introductory endurance test of the 13-week course at Quantico, Va. Nearly 30 men also washed out on the first day. The class started with 109 students, 25% of whom will not finish.

    In its efforts to integrate women into combat roles, the Corps hopes to involve up to 100 women and take at least a year to complete the experiment, the official said. “This was just the first shot,” the official said.

    The next Infantry Officer Course begins in the winter. No new female volunteers have stepped forward so far.

    The Marines allowed women to volunteer for the Marine Corps’ Infantry Officer Course, and two did: they were being subjected to the same training as the men, and both were gone in a week. 29 men also washed out the first week. The article stated that 25% of the 109 class starters will not finish the course, but with 31 out of 109 already gone, the washout rate is already beyond 25%.

    Some women have completed Army Sapper Leader Course, a physically demanding course itself, that not all of the males pass.

    The facts of modern warfare have simply changed; we no longer have a distinct front and a safe rear echelon, but the entire battalion can be subject to enemy action. We do not have women assigned to combat units, but the Army is getting around that by having women attached to combat units, primarily medics and commos.

  33. Army medic SPC Monica Brown won the Silver Star for gallantry in combat.

    Army Spc. Monica Brown, a medic from the 782nd Brigade Support Battalion, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division, stands over Forward Operating Base Salerno in Khowst province, Afghanistan. Brown is the second woman since World War II to earn a Silver Star for gallantry in combat.

    Brown, recognized for her gallant actions during combat in Afghanistan in 2007, is the second woman soldier since World War II to be awarded a Silver Star. She received the medal from Vice President Richard B. Cheney during a ceremony here March 20.

    It was dusk on April 25, 2007, when Brown, a medic from the 82nd Airborne Division’s 782nd Brigade Support Battalion, 4th Brigade Combat Team, was on a routine security patrol along the rolling, rocky plains of the isolated Jani Khail district in Afghanistan’s Paktika province when insurgents attacked her convoy.

    “We’d been out on the mission for a couple of days,” said Brown, who at the time was attached to the brigade’s 4th Squadron, 73rd Cavalry Regiment’s Troop C. “We had just turned into a wadi (empty river bed) when our gunner yelled at us that the vehicle behind us had hit an (improvised explosive device).”

    The soldiers looked out of their windows in time to see one of the struck vehicle’s tires flying through the field next to them. Brown had just opened her door to see what was going on when the attack began.

    “I only saw the smoke from the vehicle when suddenly we started taking small-arms fire from all around us,” she said. “Our gunner starting firing back, and my platoon sergeant yelled, ‘Doc! Let’s go.’”

    Brown and her platoon sergeant, Staff Sgt. Jose Santos, exited their vehicle, and while under fire, ran the few hundred meters to the site of the downed Humvee.

    “Everyone was already out of the burning vehicle,” she said. “But even before I got there, I could tell that two of them were injured very seriously.”

    In fact, all five of the passengers who had stumbled out were burned and cut. Two soldiers, Spcs. Stanson Smith and Larry Spray, suffered life-threatening injuries.

    With help from two less-injured vehicle crewmen, Sgt. Zachary Tellier and Spc. Jack Bodani, Brown moved the immobile soldiers to a relatively safe distance from the burning Humvee.

    “There was pretty heavy incoming fire at this point,” she said.

    “Rounds were literally missing her by inches,” said Bodani, who provided suppressive fire as Brown aided the casualties while injured. “We needed to get away from there.”

    Attempting to provide proper medical care under the heavy fire became impossible, especially when the attackers stepped up efforts to kill the soldiers.

    More at the link. Some women will be able to handle it, and others will not, but the same is true of men.

  34. Pingback: Best Idea Ever–Female Frontline Soldiers « Blog de KingShamus

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