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Recent Comments
- In The Mailbox: 02.28.23 (Afternoon Edition) : The Other McCain on Hey, longtime pw readers…
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Yup. Gutsy POS.
[…] with us in this important effort. In Friendship, -Barbara Barbara Boxer U.S. Senator UPDATE: Linked by Jeff Goldstein at Protein Wisdom — thanks! Meanwhile, in another gutsy move, four House Democrats voted “present” […]
Yep, let’s declare victory,and withdraw from Astan and Iraq.
Wonder what the over/under will be on the next 9-11?
Is there anyone here who didn’t see this coming from 100 miles away?
cranky-d posted on 5/14 @ 2:32 pm
Is there anyone here who didn’t see this coming from 100 miles away?
Ho! Ho!
Not here, but let’s take a look at the rest of our “in-touch” nation.
Meh, I kind of agree with her.
Afghanistan is a hell hole and it won’t be changing this century.
yea i’m with the entropy. the place is a 7th century allanhole.
I need a refresher on what victory in Afghanistan looks like. If we’re to civilize these people before we leave, we’re going to be there for a long, long time. Meanwhile, our supply lines are beginning to look pretty dicey. I’d like to know what just what we’re trying to do. And don’t get me started on Libya.
“I need a refresher on what victory in Afghanistan looks like.”
a societal collapse of the islamic world.
“I need a refresher on what victory in Afghanistan looks like.”
Radioactive glass from India to N Africa?
Do you really think we can, by force and death, bring these people into modernity? Boxer, and the rest of the non-brain trust of the democratic party, got this one right but, as usual, fior the wrong reasons. The war on terror is a never ending war. Protect our borders, continue to give support to Israel and continue, once Obama is gone, to be a shining light of freedom to the world.
I love the smell of Cesium-137 in the morning.
Smells like… well, cancer… mostly.
Collapse? Where would it collapse to? Rearranging the rubble, etc…
So everybody is down for South Vietnam round II? The mountains not the ocean this time will receive the bodies of our fleeing allies. Nay, I say. If the Democrats want the blood bath make them own it entire, no fig leaves for the traitorous fucks.
If needs be cut back to a force that can be sustained by an air bridge. Keep hitting the Taliban and al Queada leaders whereever they are. Force Pakistan to choose, friend and ally or enemy. Their choice and fully consequential. If they choose enemy then make sure India knows we have their back and give China the chance to choose too. They want to play at being big boys then they need to make the big boy choices, not vote present as a child and do things on the proxy sly.
Of course this will likely have to await getting the “children” out of the WH. President Present still likes his toys and fantasies.
I’m down
with gb.
It’s not even a close parallel.
South Vietnam had a functioning modern society before we showed up. Afghanistan? I think not.
I don’t think that we should pull out of Iraq, however. That place is a closer parallel to South Vietnam (well, except Iraq has oil to pay for their military equipment).
We have people who have worked with us in both countries who would be and their families would be at risk if we up and left. Not that that is the only reason or even a good reason to stay. Afghanistan and Iraq give us a presence right in the heart of the terrorists homeland.
I don’t for a moment believe that the Dems would pull out of Afghanistan while keeping a presence in Iraq. They mean to pull out of everything and then cut the military calling it a “peace dividend” again. Plus the lefty delight of having once again shown that we abandon all our allies in the end. They get tingles over that one.
What geoffb said. I think they will want to use Bin Laden’s death as an excuse to stop the entire effort.
You’re welcome.
Happy Xmas in July (War is Over)
I don’t for a moment believe that the Dems would pull out of Afghanistan while keeping a presence in Iraq. They mean to pull out of everything and then cut the military calling it a “peace dividend” again. Plus the lefty delight of having once again shown that we abandon all our allies in the end. They get tingles over that one.
And after we leave A-stan and P-stan, the Taliban types get to set up their little terrorist training camps all over again. Figure a year or so to get the team back together, and another year to work out a plan and order all the parts, and they’re just in time to launch another terrorist attack on US soil… oh, say, a couple of months into the term of the incoming Republican President.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
The thing about Vietnam was, we wouldn’t even aid them materially.
I’m all for backing and training and arming metropolitan afghanis that want to live in the 21st century. But it’s their country, they have to be able to fight for it.
If they can’t, then maybe there aren’t enough of them to make it work anyway. Or else they don’t really want it enough to pay what it would cost. Doesn’t mean we should pony up for them.
Figure a year or so to get the team back together, and another year to work out a plan and order all the parts, and they’re just in time to launch another terrorist attack on US soil… oh, say, a couple of months into the term of the incoming Republican President.
Oh come on now, I really find this quite … well frankly, offensive.
9-11 was an aberation. Their training camps aren’t all that good. There is no sure thing that if Afghanistan goes back to the Taliban we’ll have another 9-11. They had those camps for years and 9-11 was still an aberation.
On the flip side, having the army over there doesn’t really stop them either from training or from trying to hit us domestically, and don’t dick me around, we all know that.
To the extent there may be another 9-11 if we leave, there may be another 9-11 even if we don’t leave.
It’s a ‘do something’ disease. Bombing crapholes in Afghanistan and fighting shmucks who can’t get visas is not protecting us from shmucks who can get visas. Just stop giving them visas.
Aw, shucks.
The truth is, if you go to NYC, you are just asking for it. I lost 7 friends on 9/11, and I haven’t been there since 1993. You have to be insane to want to go there. (I live 45 miles away).
New Yawk City sucks a really fat one. It always stinks and is full of major, MAJOR fucking idiots. It also burns the rest of the state come election time. NOBODY, BUT NOBODY in their right mind wants to live there anymore.
And if you do – KAPOW! Don’t ever say I didn’t warn you.
Not to get into a cliche war, but they only have to get lucky once. Hopefully once is all, for a very long time.
Not sure what this word-battle with Pakistan is going to result in. You’d guess with all of the F-16s and attendant weaponry we’ve sold them, that they could go mop up the Taliban hideouts in Baluchistan, for instance.
This could be Pakistan being ineffectual, or it could be cover. I really have no idea.
It’s not as if they can’t do precision targeting.
9/11 was an aberation? What color is the sky in your world?
Yeah, let us just leave. Everywhere. Bleeping savages – trust them to cooperate with us and fight alongside us. Sniff.
’cause all them savages are the same. Cain’t civiliz ’em – just nuke ’em!!!1!1
Are people trying to become the parody/stereotype that the Left holds up?
We aren’t going to make Afghanistan into a mix of Seattle and Phoenix, but we can damn sure get them on their feet enough to fend off the Paks trying to turn them into some sort of Pashto satrapy.
No offense LTC John, and your ideals are above reproach, but how many invaders have been broken in Afghanistan? Most recently, Afghanistan had as much to do with the USSRs demise as Reagan did. Iraq was(/is) difficult, and Iraq is centuries ahead of Afghanistan.
I think this an excellent opportunity to declare victory, and leave the tribes as we found them.
Now excuse me, as I go slit my wrists. The only proper response to agreeing with Babs Boxer.
We wouldn’t be leaving things as we found them, because those there who helped us would soon be killed.
You cannot do just one thing, and you cannot undo what has been done.
By the way, I’m sure the terrorist training camps are thriving in Somalia and the like, and Afghanistan is merely a symbol in the fight.
What may be sentimental to our military should not affect where future planning and resources go. I believe Afghanistan to be a diversion of tremendous resources at this point. Why field a hundred thousand grunts when an embassy (read:CIA field office), and predator drones would do the job?
“We wouldn’t be leaving things as we found them, because those there who helped us would soon be killed.”
That will never change. Are we committed to sacrificing our soldiers in perpetuity to protect those whose own governments will not, even after our own national interests have been met?
I understand the sentiment, but because those people did the right thing for their own country and conscience, we are not obligated to fall on our sword when their own countrymen will not.
Reality can be a mean ol’ bitch…
I’ll even throw in the caveat of staying; if we conduct a war, instead of these police actions so in vogue these days.
The way to win a war is by decimating the enemy in body and soul until they surrender unconditionally, and then impose the necessary reform on the country to make them compatible with the victor. Think 1946 Japan.
This half-assed, sensitive, PC weighted bullshit going on in Afghanistan is stupid, dangerous, and expensive.
Can you imagine winning WWII under the rules of engagement self imposed these days? I can’t.
i’m all for scramming if we had precedent that had some balls when it comes to iran and paakeestan
We’ve been in Afghanistan 10 years now, and it feels like the beginning.
There is a window now where we can withdraw with a win. Not unlike the original decision to go there Bush that made, but with OBL dead. If we had killed OBL in Pakistan in 2002, would Bush still have invaded Afghanistan? I doubt it.
With OBL dead, what is our objective in Afghanistan? To drag it kicking and screaming into the 21st century? We would be better off nationally by invading Mexico.
decision to go there that Bush
thatmade…We invaded Afghanistan in Oct 2001. How would killing OBL in 2002 have affected that? Do you mean Iraq?
We still would have invaded Iraq [I believe] as it was not over OBL but for what Saddam had been doing ever since the end of Gulf War I and what it was suspected he would do in the future. Plus the place is in the ideal location to take on any Middle East terror problem with our forces having bases there to operate from. Afghanistan is good this way also but harder to keep supplied as there is no sea access and we are a sea power.
“We invaded Afghanistan in Oct 2001. How would killing OBL in 2002 have affected that? “
Well, OK, I thought we went in early 2002, my bad.
To rephrase, if we had killed OBL before we invaded Afghanistan, would we have still invaded?
Also, what is our objective in Afghanistan now? Iraq wasn’t really about 9/11, it was about the new reality post-9/11, and Saddam’s quest for WMD. Afghanistan had no WMD program.
Whether we would or should have went into Iraq without first going into Afghanistan is a different question, and at this point Iraq is a done deal. Afghanistan is not and actually seems little different despite our efforts than it did in 2002.
Are we to invest another 10 years, 2000 soldiers, and half a trillion dollars? to what end?
Afghanistan is The Homeland, and not ours. It will never be subdued; the land is as a great gnashing maw of failure awaiting any outside force to come in and be ground down to powder.
Nuke, orbit. Or leave the damned place to the poppies.
Well, there’s always Solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant.
So we pack up and leave A’stan, abandoning all the folks we have spent ten years convincing to trust and help us. The Taliban, and every other miscreant gang of goons over there, immediately move back in, slaughtering all who aided the great Satan. We have no allies or boots on the ground, so our drones are all blind and useless now. Pakistan has no reason to trust us, as we have just left there flank completely vulnerable and under attack. A’stan is restored as a safe haven for militant Islam as unrest and revolution is rocking the entire region.
Best of all, Bin Laden has been proven a prophet and a hero by our lack of resolve and honor.
Basically, what we would be doing is passing another problem down to our children and grandchildren.
We stay and do like we should have in finishing Viet Nam (before a Dem Congress pulled the plug. Once trained up, armed and with enough numbers – the Afghans can take care of themselves – if we can get the Paks to lay the #$%& off.
We don’t stay forever – just like we won’t be in Iraq forever – the Iraqis just had a better base and better material to work with to get up and running.
As for Somalia – we are ‘involved’ in the area. I am not going to give details, but we are doing some things. Enough? I think not, but that can change.
We can walk and chew gum at the same time, so we can continue to get the Afghans ready for their own fight AND make sure the next haven gets cut down to size. As we finish in Iraq, those resources and such will draw down and some releif is coming. Also, out numbers in Afghanistan will start to come down too.
If you get to 10 years someplace and quit, you have simply established the benchmark for your enemies to achieve victory. Think about it from their POV, at present – how long are these SOB Americans going to keep pounding on us – I thought they were the weak horse?! 10 years in Afghanistan and they outlasted even the Russians…I don’t want to talk about Iraq…it looked so promising… I thought these people were decadent and we have the armor of God and the spear of his Prophet?!!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/15/sunday/main20063017.shtml
Electing a retarded fop President was bad enough, if we pull out of the middle east now it would likely be a significant step towards a possible WWIII.
Of course, that is a proven way out of a depression.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/267211/ill-season-andrew-c-mccarthy
For the militant anti-Christian atheists who were among those pushing this “Arab Spring” “democratic” revolution this is probably a win, just not one they can openly proclaim and cheer on, yet.
Is one of the reasons I’m done with Afghanistan. We’re trying to help a primitive Muslim culture give up what the more advanced Muslim cultures want to embrace. OBL had been in Pakistan for years. What is our objective in Afghanistan? To make it like Pakistan?
I’ve lost hope we can achieve anything by staying in Afghanistan.
LB, you might as well have written “Detroit” in for “Afghanistan”…