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In which I respond to a skirmish going on elsewhere by way of linking to my archives, quietly, without offering anything new, and without ostensibly taking sides — save my own, which is nearly always the side to take, given my demonstrative genius

What is feminism, and who gets to decide?

Well, one way to answer that question is to look at who certain “feminists” label “anti-feminists.”

There.

I win.

****
update: Oh. And KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY UTERUS!

58 Replies to “In which I respond to a skirmish going on elsewhere by way of linking to my archives, quietly, without offering anything new, and without ostensibly taking sides — save my own, which is nearly always the side to take, given my demonstrative genius”

  1. Joe says:

    It has taken long to learn this some some fights are not worth fighting.

  2. Joe says:

    And I am not discounting anything Jeff is noting through those links.

  3. alppuccino says:

    Disagree.

    Feminists are a miserable bunch who hate men, and children and dogs. Yet they need men to have children and they all look like dogs.

  4. Joe says:

    Al, I am talking about Little Miss Attila.

    But let me respond with some jokes:

    Q. If February is Black History Month and March is Women’s History
    Month, what happens the rest of the year?

    A. Discrimination.

    —–

    Q: How many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb?

    A: That’s not funny!

    ——

    Q. How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb?

    A. None. It’s not the lightbulb that needs changing.

    —–

  5. Sarah Rolph says:

    I like that Lost Dog rant at the last link. Quite so, Dog. Quite so.

  6. Stephanie says:

    Feminists are one of those groups that feel that they only have power when they are, well, grouped. Individually, they claim to be powerless which reveals a lot more about them than they realize. Together they want to be bullies; individually, victims.

    When they figure out the inherent problems with that, I might begin to take them seriously.

  7. alppuccino says:

    nice triplet Joe.

  8. […] Glad you’re enjoying the show.UPDATE II: With reckless indifference to Japanese suffering, Goldstein brings his “demonstrative genius” into the argument. And along the way, he links to a 2005 post that brought Jeff this accusation from […]

  9. Hold on. There’s got to be a death threat in there somewhere…

  10. Squid says:

    Neither “liberal” nor “feminist” were considered insults until after the Marxist class warriors co-opted the movements to their own ends. There’s a lesson in there somewhere.

  11. Ernst Schreiber says:

    pot stirrer

  12. cranky-d says:

    There were DEATH THREATS laced all through those old posts, I just know it. Sure, I can’t show you an example of one, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

    I agree that Lost Dog’s comment really needs to be taken to heart, and not just by women.

  13. […] [Goldstein: Weighing in Without Weighing in] [Stace: The Feminist Omerta] Big Argument with Stacy Over the Phone Today Stacy McCain Is Still […]

  14. McGehee says:

    The word “feminist” is garbage, a damaged brand. Anyone who really thinks winning an argument over what it means is some kind of accomplishment, deserves to win that argument.

    All hail the Queen of the Garbage Heap! Crown her with coffee grounds and cast banana peels at her feet!

    Bah.

  15. Squid says:

    update: Oh. And KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY UTERUS!

    I’m pretty sure that in the Age of ObamaCare, the new chant is MY UTERUS NEEDS GOVERNMENT ATTENTION!

    (Once the OB/GYNs are all federal union employees, they’ll keep the speculums even colder. Count on it!)

  16. Pellegri says:

    Do you keep your uterus in a jar on a shelf in your closet?

  17. Stephanie says:

    Do you keep your uterus in a jar on a shelf in your closet?

    All the lonely feminists, where do they all come from?

  18. alppuccino says:

    Feminist Bertha throwing tomatoes at women who want to be wives.

    Run for you lives.

  19. LBascom says:

    I have to add my thumbs up to the Lost Dog comment. That was a thing of beauty.

  20. Stephanie says:

    Why can’t Americans be more like the Dutch?

    But then I meet a young man heading home at Schipol train station, arms full of tulips. ‘Do you have a girlfriend?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘Does she work full-time?’ ‘Are you kidding? No, it is my job to worship her, to make her happy and fulfilled.’

    Maybe the Dutch women have got the right idea, after all.

  21. Stephanie says:

    the Lost Dog comment:

    I have been in three bands over the years that had a female lead singer. I will NEVER NEVER NEVER do that again.

    Does that make me a sexist, or is it more like painfully learning that there are parts of town you just don’t go to?

    I think a lot of feminists confuse the trials of being human with the trials of being a woman. My life isn’t always a bowl of cherries, either. There are assholes EVERYWHERE, and you either stand up to them, or move on. Why do women think that they are the only victims of screwed up power tripping morons?

    It blows my mind that so many feminists talk about “empowerment”, but when the time comes to make a stand, they run back to the herd and call the thought police. I just don’t see any budding personal power in that course of action – in fact, what I see there is just more bullshit victimology. If your good at what you do, you’re good at what you do and reward will follow. If you whine and snipe but picture yourself as Xena, you’re screwed (unless, of course, you ARE Xena)

    Harrassment and humiliation are part of our very existence. My sister was one of a VERY few women (in fact, she might have been the only one) on the trading floor of the Stock Market many years ago, and had a hell of a bad time with the men who she needed to deal with.

    She didn’t whine or call a lawyer, she DEALT WITH IT, and has been very comfortably retired since her mid-thirties. Yeah, she was pissed, but fortunately for her, there were no feminist blogs she could find to worm her way back into the common victim muddle. She stood up to the idiots who weren’t half as good as she was, but thought they were.

    I’m with Playah Grrrl. Stand on your own two feet, or go home. This planet is not designed for whining wussies. No one ever promised me that everyone I meet will treat me with respect just because I exist. I don’t know where that attitude came from, but I do know it didn’t originate with winners.

    Playah Grrrl is right. Feminists should go where they are needed. We have all the laws you need to protect women from REAL harrassment, and the opportunities are there. If you can’t deal with assholes by yourself, then go home and get out of everybody else’s way. Although you will have plenty of company, becoming a victim is a waste of the worlds time – not to mention your own time.

    THE WORLD IS CHOCK FULL OF ASSHOLES. GET USED TO IT.

    Which, yeah is what I said above, but way better. With more of what the current crop of feminists would call ‘bitchiness’ cause ‘you just don’t feel my pain’ or some such drivel.

  22. guinsPen says:

    I’ll also keep my hands off your miter box, just to make sure.

  23. The Monster says:

    It seems to me that if LMA wants to define “feminism” her way by appealing to Goldsteinian Intentionalism, then she must also allow RSM to define it his way, and recognize that when he uses the word, it doesn’t mean what she means when she uses it.

    I can’t see where she groks that.

  24. ironpacker says:

    cranky-d, I’m sure the death threats in that post is somewhere in the “penumbra”. You can always find them if you have the correct political views.

  25. Pellegri says:

    Which, yeah is what I said above, but way better. With more of what the current crop of feminists would call ‘bitchiness’ cause ‘you just don’t feel my pain’ or some such drivel.

    That is pretty much how I feel. I’ve had very useful discussions with the psych I’m seeing (seeing a psych, on meds–yeah, I am pretty busted but it’s more as a consequence of brain aberrations and unpreventable family stuff than anything else; my parents are awesome, I just drew the short stick on genes) on how women do feel and behave differently than men w.r.t. standing up and taking what we want, but the solution is to stand up and take what you want, not lament the fact you’re wired differently. Or the world has trained you differently, or that you’re born with a different set of instincts and two X chromosomes, and we need to make everything “fairer” because women are more timid.

    I have always thought it reasonable to negotiate with your family and close personal friends about that kind of stuff–to say “I have a hard time standing up for myself; can you help me in our personal dealings?”. Once you get outside that circle, you can’t expect the world to understand or sympathize. Not because there aren’t sympathetic people out there (there are; and then there are people who can’t understand; and then there are people who will act sympathetic and then abuse you), but because part of growing up is being able to deal with this stuff on your own, which means not asking for special dispensation for failings that YOU can outgrow.

    Granted all of this maundering does not make me any less depressed about the fact I still need to hide the fact I’m female in the gaming community, because shit’s crazy there if you’re a girl. Seriously. I have no love for establishment feminism, its tactics, or its screed, but I too often find myself repeating stuff I’ve heard from them just to get people off my back because of the assumptions that get made the instant anyone I don’t know finds out I am a) female and b) engage in the Fine Art of the Viddyuhgame. This is undoubtedly due to the higher concentration of uncivilized, immature asshole per capita ratio in the communities I frequent, however.

  26. Dana says:

    Jeff has a uterus?

  27. Dana says:

    No wonder I flunked 9th grade biology!

  28. Pellegri says:

    Jeff is an authentic feminist!

  29. Jeff G. says:

    It’s true.

  30. Pellegri says:

    And I am an authentic Goracle spitting out many smaller Goracles.

  31. guinsPen says:

    U.S. out of his ovaries !

    scroll down five

  32. Darleen says:

    The Marxist class warriors co-opted the movements to their own ends

    And that’s the root of the debate bouncing between Stacy and Joy’s blogs.

    Sarah Palin takes the original meaning/principles behind the term “feminist” and is quite comfortable identifying with it.

    The Leftists that figleaf their agenda as “Womyn’s Rights” or Vagina Warriors are beside themselves Palin dare speak of herself as a feminist.

    Funny thing, Stacy seems to have taken the Vagina Warrior side.

  33. littlemissattila says:

    “It seems to me that if LMA wants to define “feminism” her way by appealing to Goldsteinian Intentionalism, then she must also allow RSM to define it his way, and recognize that when he uses the word, it doesn’t mean what she means when she uses it.

    I can’t see where she groks that.”

    Oh, I grok it fine. And most of the time he uses the word, and I just read it as “radical feminist,” and we’re fine.

    But when he gets on my ovaries for merely using the word, and criticizes Governor Palin for doing so, and then distorts women’s history in order to justify all that–we start to have a problem.

    I have no attachment to the word, but there are people on the right who are every bit as annoying as those on the left are when they go all “PC” and start CORRECTING ONE all over the goddamned place.

    The worst of it is, Stacy thinks he’s defending a sacred principle by policing everyone’s language. He’s defending the fact that he’s capable of acting like a complete dick–and I mean that in a gender-neutral way, of course.

  34. Darleen says:

    I can’t see where she groks that.

    LMA said:

    Usually, when Stacy says “feminism,” I just read it as “radical/gender feminism,” and get on with life. And the last time he challenged me for using the term, I quoted Humpty Dumpty–and that was it. (“When I use a term, it means what I want it to mean.”)

    But it’s a bit much for him to start proclaiming that Govornor Palin doesn’t know her own mind, and is somehow mistaken when she calls herself a “feminist.” That was disrespectful.

    (my emphasis)

  35. newrouter says:

    “The land that feminism forgot: They wouldn’t dream of working full-time, spend three hours a day drinking coffee and their men pay for everything – have Dutch women found the secret to happiness?”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1364690/Have-Dutch-women-secret-happiness.html

  36. Darleen says:

    whoops… I leave to go do a cut-n-paste of LMA’s quote and here she is!

    :-)

  37. Joe says:

    Stacy thinks he’s defending a sacred principle by policing everyone’s language. He’s defending the fact that he’s capable of acting like a complete dick–and I mean that in a gender-neutral way, of course.

    I think TOM should adopt this as its new masthead.

  38. guinsPen says:

    Headline: Barbara Kay: The day Sarah Palin kneecapped feminism

    Text: “Feminists watching Palin’s stunning performance knew a stake was being driven through their movement’s heart.”

    Illustration: Helen Thomas?

  39. Jeff G. says:

    And that’s the root of the debate bouncing between Stacy and Joy’s blogs.

    I’m not going to interject anything new here, but those links to my old posts are really really instructive, I think.

    Because of my demonstrable genius.

  40. Stephanie says:

    new: I posted that earlier.

    Funny that the Amfems (American Feminists) want a New Europe created here with all the socialism that implies and get wet panties just thinking about this soon to be Utopian dreamland – yet fail to realize that the Eurofems currently populating that Utopia they dream about aren’t down with their struggle and in fact would fight them tooth and nail should they march over there demanding shit on all fems behalf.

    Would the rejection of Amfems advocating over there be met with puzzled faces and exclamations of ‘they are fighting against their best interests?’ In the land of Utopia? The mind reels.

  41. newrouter says:

    woman may be happier living their lives rather than their ideology, says the patriarchal nut case.

  42. […] Would Like Me to Kick Him When He’s Down [Goldstein: Weighing in Without Weighing in] [Stace: The Feminist Omerta] Big Argument with Stacy Over the Phone Today Stacy McCain Is Still […]

  43. newrouter says:

    what happen to the “no labels” crowd?

  44. vaguely says:

    moore

    thirty-two pound pork
    sausage patty sampler,
    intravenously.

  45. Slartibartfast says:

    Because of my demonstrable genius.

    Which is only outdone by your modesty and humility.

  46. Jeff G. says:

    that is part of my demonstrable genius, that decision to play up my modesty and humility.

  47. Jeff G. says:

    By the way: just did that stool lift I posted last night on one leg with a tall stool. 5# plate on the seat. I think I can do more, but I did a lot of heavy fat bar lifting this week, and my hands are shot.

    I might have to shoot a quick vid.

  48. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Darleen,

    My reading of Stacy’s original post was that his disagreement (more like a point of clarification, actually) was with Barbara Kay rather than with Sarah Palin. LMA’a “McCain’s talking down to Sarah!” (my gloss, obviously) struck me as a non sequitur.

    I suppose I’ll have to go back and reread it all. But I don’t know if it’s worth the trouble.

  49. littlemissattila says:

    It’s a hobby horse of his. “No, you aren’t a feminist in any sense of the word! Those people are all socialists! No, I don’t want to talk about the suffrage movement, but if I do I’ll call Elizabeth Cady Stanton a non-Christian”!

    His rationale is that there is a “conservative ethos” and nothing that can be described as “feminist” belongs under that umbrella–besides which, a lot of the “second-wave feminists” are, he maintains, socialists and radicals who were intent upon subverting middle-class morality.

    He also tells me that I’m a menschevik, and will be sacrificed by the bolsheviks at some point in the future. Which, though metaphorical, is somehow supposed to be scary to me. As if I care.

    It’s all a bit much to take considering how much trouble he’s gone through in terms of guilt-by-association–for which, BTW, he had to be defended by Jeff and me.

    Pure silliness, but it’s all there if you follow Jeff’s link.

  50. Um, *cough* Wow.

    O_o

  51. Ernst Schreiber says:

    He also tells me that I’m a menschevik, and will be sacrificed by the bolsheviks at some point in the future. Which, though metaphorical, is somehow supposed to be scary to me.

    It should scare you. The bolshies’ll sacrifice us all to the greater glory of The Cause.

    Just as soon as they decide among themselves what that is.

  52. […] You can read it here, here, here, here, and here. […]

  53. newrouter says:

    “It’s all a bit much to take considering how much trouble he’s gone through in terms of guilt-by-association–for which, BTW, he had to be defended by Jeff and me. ”

    have you nothing better to do?

  54. vaguely says:

    moore

    as a rule,
    i always take a side
    of everything.

  55. […] links provided in his opinion piece on feminism and Feminazis, I ran across this comment thread at Protein Wisdom. It was an enlightening experience. I gotta go back to skool, my skilz aint what they used to be. […]

  56. mojo says:

    Oh jeez…

    If you guys are gonna start in on intentionalism again, I intend to have another drink.

    Whether I do or not, well, that’s emperical.

Comments are closed.