General Motors Corp. has a tentative deal to sell its Saturn brand to former race car driver and dealership group owner Roger Penske, according to two people briefed on the deal.
Who were the other bidders?
In other mind-blowing news, new NASA study concludes sun heats earth.
Disparity in predicted, actual unemployment projection = Homeric.
Pablo points out that Penske is a big Republican donor, and he’s quite right; I’d just as soon see Saturn go to an American investor. But who the heck were the rival bidders? Who’s making the decision for GM? That’s what I don’t see investigated, and what I would like to know, for starters.
Paranoid much? Probably. In normal times, this stuff would lead the business news, if not the national news.
Well, here’s some information. Former Chrysler President Tom LaSorda was advising Penske. Here are his and his wife’s numbers for the 2008 campaign cycle.
LASORDA, DOREEN
OAKLAND TOWNSHIP,MI 48306 N/A/HOMEMAKER 8/15/08 $2,300 Dingell, John D (D)
LASORDA, DOREEN
OAKLAND TOWNSHIP,MI 48306 HOMEMAKER 3/27/08 $2,300 Knollenberg, Joe (R)
LASORDA, DOREEN
ROCHESTER,MI 48306 HOMEMAKER 8/16/07 $1,000 McConnell, Mitch (R)
LASORDA, DOREEN
OAKLAND TOWNSHIP,MI 48306 N/A/HOMEMAKER 4/26/07 $1,000 Levin, Carl (D)
LASORDA, DOREEN
OAKLAND TOWNSHIP,MI 48306 HOMEMAKER 11/13/07 $500 Stabenow, Debbie (D)
LASORDA, DOREEN MRS
OAKLAND TOWNSHIP,MI 48306 HOMEMAKER 1/24/08 $2,300 Romney, Mitt (R)
LASORDA, THOMAS W
OAKLAND TOWNSHIP,MI 48306 2/28/08 $2,300 Clinton, Hillary (D)
LASORDA, THOMAS W
OAKLAND TOWNSHIP,MI 48306 DAIMLERCHRYSLER/PRESIDENT AND CEO 4/26/07 $1,000 Levin, Carl (D)
LASORDA, THOMAS W
OAKLAND TOWNSHIP,MI 48306 DAIMLERCHRYSLER CORP/PRESIDENT/VICE 11/13/07 $500 Stabenow, Debbie (D)
LASORDA, THOMAS W
BIRMINGHAM,MI 48009 CHRYSLER TECHNOLOGY CENTER/PRESIDEN 1/30/09 $416 Chrysler LLC
LASORDA, THOMAS W MR
OAKLAND TOWNSHIP,MI 48306 CHRYSLER/VICE CHAIRMAN 1/24/08 $2,300 Romney, Mitt (R)
Maybe we’re getting a little peek at how Hillary’s campaign debt is to be retired?
Hey Dan you’re harshing my perestroika. Settle down.
Hey I work on race cars…
probably repub. donors therefore their bids are not valid.
You mean, like, competition? Why, that’s, that’s capitalism.
Obama won’t allow such a thing.
The sun causes global warming? Well! That explains why it always gets cold when AlGore shows up, he blots out the sun.. Maybe we should put him in orbit over AZ?
Man this crap with the car deralers, and now Saturn, sounds suspiciously like how the state run industries in the former Soviet Union mysteriously ended up being acquired by many former party apparatchicks turned capitalist…
I pray that this see’s the light of day beyond the readers at PW and the conservative blogosphere…
You know, where all the knuckledragging, mud-bunker, hating wingers hang…
Dan, no post on the PW snub of Most Influential Bloggers? Because Wikio is obviously such an authority on who is influential and who is not. Ace and Hot Air did not make it either, so perhaps this is more akin to Groucho’s comment that he would never join a club that would have him as a member.
I’ve got nothing to say about that, Joe, except that it was powered by Weakio.
This time, not so much.
You’re overlooking the coziness with McLarty, Pablo. All I’m asking is, who were the other bidders and what were their bids? Is that too much to ask? Transparency.
“you’re harshing my perestroika”
That is Hall of Fame material. Man, that brought a smile to my face, happyfeet.
That Penske and McLarty do business doesn’t likely extend to Penske getting favorable treatment on his own behalf, as he’s politically on the other team. If there’s an ongoing relationship between Penske Automotive and McLarty, I’d find that curious, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. That said, I’m with you on the transparency thing. But let’s not hold our breath.
I don’t know much about it, but this has been rumored for a while here in Detroit.
And, Penske is known as a good guy here in Detroit. I’m all for parts of GM to go back into private hands.
Good guys don’t buy stolen cars.
Penske got Saturn because Warren Buffett thought, “That’s only the second biggest planet. I’ll show him! I’ll bid on Jupiter!”
Meanwhile Sully put in a bid on Uranus…
This isn’t the first thing Penske’s bought from GM. Detroit Diesel- Allison a few years back, for one.
I can’t wait for my 650hp turbocharged Saturn. Damn.
It’s just too coincidental. Remember, it was totally legit for Landers to get all sorts of breaks because of his close and knowledge-building relationship with Penske Automotive?
I would say that both student and master seem to have the same political-fu skilz.
I think they were going to drop the brand entirely anyway, so the fact that they could sell it instead might be a good thing. Still, the logistics of the deal make me wonder a bit. I’m not sure if Saturn does its own engine manufacturing or “buys” engines from the corporate GM supplier. It’s been a long time, I think, since each division manufactured it’s own engines and transmissions.
I guess I shouldn’t care, really, but the barriers to entry are so high that there will be no other company to take the place of any failed GM division. Any manufacturing capacity lost will not be replaced.
Good guys don’t buy stolen cars.
I’m not making any judgement either way. I’m just giving you the local impressions.
I suspect Penske has been eyeballing Saturn for quite some time.
In other news, we’ve got some fresh Hopenchange™!
4 months. That’s pretty speedy.
In other Hopenchange™ news, Together We Can’t! 2010 will be a vary interesting year.
A relative of my wife was a partner with McLarty back around 2000. Don’t believe that they still are.
No, I won’t name the relative or relationship. Not the way this Gestapo gang has been dealing with people.
Re: #22
O! reaches 0, “Yes He Can”.
Here’s more on Telesto Ventures, Penske’s rival bidder. They’ve got ex-Chrysler all over them as well.
Huh, I bet Penske can make a good car, not sure about the prices though.
This is just an MOU on a stalking horse bid, not a deal. Gerber hasn’t even approved the sale procedures motion so there isn’t any bidding yet. Deep breaths.
Meanwhile…a completely different point…King Barack! Born in Oahu, moved to Indonesia…
Born in Honolula, moved to Ol’Jakoota, King B’rack…
Thirty-four percent (34%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of 0.
Wasn’t one of the trolls crowing the other day because His O-ness had gone up something like 3% post-Sotomayor?
That sure evaporated fast.
It’s neat that Saturn can be profitable and happy if it’s privately owned but definitely not profitable if owned by dirty socialists and their UAW homo friends. That’s super neat, really. I’m gonna think on that some more and see if it leads to any insights.
Wasn’t one of the trolls crowing the other day because His O-ness had gone up something like 3% post-Sotomayor?
It was poon.
Well, now that par level has been reached, the O! has nowhere left to go…but down!
A testament to his bi-partisanship(I won), post-racial-ness (DOJ drops BP case), honesty and inyegrity (he was against his muslim roots before he was for them!), and hopey-changiness (lobbyists are still welcome, regardless of his bombastic frontin’ during the campaign)…
Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy…I mean, after a while folks realize they’ve been had…
From the sounds of it, the UAW is going to be assed out once GM stops providing vehicles to Saturn in 2011. Poor babies.
What’s Penske’s union situation with his other properties?
BTW, that unemployment link is big news. Or, it ought to be, anyway. Things being significantly worse than O! told us they would be if we didn’t pass the Generational Theft Act ought to be noticed.
Detroit Diesel is a UAW shop, though it was before Penske owned it and it’s, well, Detroit. I wouldn’t think that the dealerships have any union contracts.
Doesn’t Penske operate a fleet of rental trucks, too? Seems that I’ve seen those driving around.
At one time, at least, Saturn had an engine plant. The first Saturns had engines that were different from GM’s. If the plant hasn’t been dismantled and the equipment sold off, there’s no reason Saturn couldn’t start it up again, perhaps making either GM “Ecotec” or European (Opel) engines under license if they don’t have good designs themselves.
That would make Saturn the only piece of GM that’s a “car company” on its own. The other GM marqes are for all practical purposes nameplates; Hummers are Suburbans with delusions of adequacy, for instance. (The HMMWV military vehicle is made by AM General, which is a separate company — Studebaker by way of American Motors Corp., whence the “AM”).
Penske is a long-time car guy with a reputation for well-run businesses. If he can get Saturn cheaply enough that he doesn’t have to expend the entire cash flow on debt service — a major problem with leveraged buyouts — the move makes a lot of sense on many levels.
Regards,
Ric
From the AM General History site: Although GM acquired the HUMMER brand, they do not own any part of AM General.
Regards,
Ric
Ric,
Is it wrong for me to be a bigger fan of the MRAPs that International (hello Warrenville, Illinois!) make than the HMMWVs that AM Gen make?
AM General used to be owned by LTV Aerospace & Defense, which is now owned by the LockMart Borg Consortium.
Oh. I see that AM General escaped in 1992. Just in time.
LTC John,
There’s no accounting for taste :-)
That being said — the HMMWV is, in my opinion, an overly-bloated vehicle whose bloat tempted the Army into using it for things it was never intended for. It was supposed to be a Jeep replacement, agile and relatively fast, for schlepping personnel, dispatches, and other lightweight (by military standards) goods around. The “up armored” versions are actually a quite different vehicle from the original, and reflect pressing the thing into duties that weren’t part of the original design spec.
MRAP was designed from scratch to be an “in harm’s way” vehicle. Given the conditions under which you worked, it’s perfectly understandable that you should prefer it.
My personal choice, without deep knowledge of the situation, would be to discontinue the up-armored HMMWV, replace all vehicles used where its use is advisable with MRAP, and have AM General continue to build soft-sided HMMWVs to be used for base taxis and operations where armor-piercing munitions are less common.
Regards,
Ric
Slart, I have had two separate experieces with LTV in its various incarnations. If the Borg have parasites, somewhere on their nameplates is “LTV”.
Regards,
Ric
Let’s hope not. Saturns have never really been very good cars, at least not until recently when they began using Opel platforms. In fact, they were pretty awful cars for a long time, but there appears to be a market out there of people who don’t mind paying too much for their cars based on their no-haggle, take-it-or-leave-it pricing and sales strategy.
#40: thanks Ric.
#46:
Even if Saturn’s engine designs weren’t great (I have no idea), the ability to make engines is what is important here. They can always license a design if necessary.
Of course, if they have to meet corporate fuel economy standards, they will only be able to make teeny cars, because they will not be big enough to use a fleet average method for their fuel economy.
Just speculating, and not passing any judgment on the deal itself, only the viability of what could come out of it. I would also like to see the Corvette survive, but I doubt it will. However, in any case, GM could go into the business of providing engines, transmissions, and other driveline components to its former associated brands, if those brands are split off the company during the bankruptcy.
Jim,
I have a 2001 L100. It has been wonderful. Lots of miles, and no trouble at all. But with all this uncertainty, I am not thinking of getting another when this one expires. I’ll look at Ford or Honda I think.
Colonel,
Ford makes some really nice rides these days; and they are the one independant car company we have left here at home right now…
But, I’m biased…
Speaking as an engineer though, Honda has always made some very impressive machines. Maybe the most impressive of the Japanese manufacturers…
Best Wishes…
I can’t tell from the flash-infested Web site whether or not the Corvette assembly plant does anything at all with engines other than install them. I’m pretty sure they don’t have an engine plant as such, but Corvette engines differ enough from the rest of GM’s line that it would make sense for them to have facilities for modifying engines in Bowling Green.
Perhaps Roger will widen his purview. A Penske Corvette would be a highly-marketable item…
Regards,
Ric
“A Penske Corvette would be a highly-marketable item…”
Sir, you have a gift for deliberate understatement, indeed you do! I would have, clumsily, said “that would be a fookin’ cash cow for the ages!!1!”
I’ll look at Ford or Honda I think.
Check out BMWs, too. The older ones are very reasonable for what you are getting.
Of course, after Barky’s through, Corvettes will probably be powered by one of those electric motors normally found in cordless screwdrivers.
Is it wrong for me to be a bigger fan of the MRAPs that International (hello Warrenville, Illinois!) make…
http://defense-update.com/images_new/MRAP_Cat_1_navistar.jpg
Yowzuh! Can you get a street legal one of those? That is just what ‘feets needs to cruise the Strip. With a big ass Texas flag painted on the side.
Looks like LTC John is far from the only fan.
I am not unbiased, since Penske is a racing icon here in Indy having won 15 500’s. And the idea of a Penske Corvette made me almost drive off the road. Would make those Shelby Cobra’s look like a Chevette.
I had a Rousch Mustang when I was younger. Fun ride. A Penske Corvette would be EPIC.
perhaps someone with better credentials (or historical perpective) can enlighten me on this re: MRAPS.
I always found it perplexing (and I agree with Ric’c point about the HMMV being inadequated for the up armored roll it was forced into in IR/AF) that they would have to build from scratch the MRAP. The dessign and concept of oblique angles to deflec the blast force has been around for 20 years. Most notably in Africa, where the Rhodesians and South Africans, modified Land Rovers and Ford Pickups to become land mine proof. later the South Africans had a made for military only model (CASSPIR) that did effective time in ANgola. WHy the delay to build from ground up? Why not license, heck crib those designs and save time?
http://www.casr.ca/id-blast-resistant-vehicles-2.htm
In still more Hopenchangeâ„¢ news, Obama is still working on filling all those appointments. Here Reason’s Hit & Run has a photo of him interviewing a Whitehouse intern..
Okay, I double denounce myself. I’m cursed with a filthy, filthy mind.
B Moe, if someone had told me ten years ago that one day, Volvos would be better-looking than BMWs, I would have thought he was smoking crack. But it has come to pass… All their current cars look like Subarus.
The biggest problem with used Bimmers is how expensive they are to fix. They’re well-built and reliable, but if they break… Even if you do the work yourself–and not everyone is into that kind of stuff–the parts themselves might as well be made of gold-plated unobtainium and sprinkled with unicorn tears.
#38 and 40:
Penske really turned around Detroit Diesel-Allison. And IIRC, that is the locomotive engine, as in best.
But they don’t break very often. The key is getting one of the more basic models without all the electronic bells and whistles. Old E30s are downright cheap, and fairly easy to get parts for if you don’t mind buying used.
Jim, there’s nothing particularly new about that. Years ago I had one neighbor with an XKE and another with one of the original tiis. They both ended up regularly hitching rides with me (in my Gremlin :-) when they were saving up for one replacement part or another, or waiting for the part to get here from across the pond.
OTT, the military has a real problem with sourcing combat equipment from other countries, especially those we aren’t ahem! on the best of terms with. The purpose-made South African machine (can’t recall the name at the moment) is near-enough a work of genius, but if the shooting started how would you get more? The Rheinmetall smoothbore on the M1A2 caused enough heartache, and IIRC it’s made here under license.
I have no problem with DOD sending money to IH for the MRAP, although looking at the grille I’m bound to wonder just who got the Studebaker genes.
Regards,
Ric
Completely OT, but I got to watch a Blue Angels airshow while on the links this afternoon. Awe inspiring.
#58:
Your question about why so long was said by my brother the major a few weeks back. The procurement process at DoD is, at my guess, as byzantine as the famous Byzantine bureaucracy. No one had the feet-to-the-fire pressure of a WWII applied to them, no one was able to get the ‘just pay them what they want and make it under license’ approval that we had for Oerlikon and Bofors guns.
My guess is that there was a lot of pressure to design the same thing here rather than go with a foreign design. In WWII, the US had developed the 1.1 multi-barrelled AA gun for warships and it was sorely lacking, and there was enough pressure applied that attempts to fix the problems were shelved and the 40mm Bofors was acquired. My guess is that in WWII casulaties to ships and crews were so high, and now casulaties due to IEDs were so low, that the same (WWII) pressure on the procurement system was not brought to bear.
Mikey, if a Byzantine were brought forward in time and introduced to DOD procurement procedures, he would fall on his face in a swoon of sheer admiration and offer to have their children in exchange for lessons.
Regards,
Ric
Flip Flopping Obama. And he is called on it by the MSM. Still fauning, but the F words are used.
Maybe a Romney Obama match up in 2012 would work.
H/T: Ace
#67 Ric Locke:
Back in the 1980’s I cam up with what I called ‘The Bic Pen’ theory. Back then, Bic sold ball point pens in hard clear plastic tubes. You could see the ink in the pen, but the barrel would crack if put under stress (such as being in the bottom of a book-bag). If there was a lot of ink in the pen, the temptation was to put tape around the barrel. After a time the barrel would start moving under the tape, so more tape was applied. And then more tape. After a time you could not use the pen because there was so much tape around the barrel it couldn’t be held.
That is bureauracracy. You have a football of tape, applied because there was a crack in the pen barrel, and somewhere under that mass of tape is an actual pen, full of ink, that you cannot use, because there is so much tape applied to it to fix a problem, a problem that cannot actually be fixed by an application of tape.
““A Penske Corvette would be a highly-marketable item…â€
Hell, Penske’s crew could probably make a skate board that goes zero-60 in three seconds.
His new Saturn might be capable of friggin’ warp speed (ya know, as long as our new Pharaoh-in-Cheif allows the invention of such a contraption).
Ric! Big Bulletnosed Salute for knowing that the Mishawaka plant started out as Studebaker. They built 6X6 deuces, and the awful Jeep Dispatcher 2WD. AMGeneral is now closely held by a very interesting businessman, one Ronald Perelman. An insiders’ rumor holds that AMGen offered a HMMV with integral carbon-fiber armor to the government with the original vehicle, and the Army thought they’d never need mine protection. Treaty, you know.
Mikey, Detroit Diesel makes truck engines (made some for Studebaker). They’re not the railroad firm–that’s ElectroMotive. Allison makes transmissions, and used to build aircraft engines. They had trouble developing a supercharger, which is why the Mustang got the Merlin–and most Merlins were built by Packard!
Sadly, Penske intends to have a car built by a major French firm with a poor record for reliability on the cars it imported here. A reboot of the original Saturn line would enjoy more loyalty. Current Saturns share more parts with Opel than with US GM, which will be a problem since Opel is soon to leave GM, possibly for Fiat, which owns…
Alfa Romeo and Ferrari.
I’ll toss this into the mix:
Talk in NASCAR circles had Penske putting together an offer for Saturn a few weeks before GM filed for bankruptcy, so the timing may be far less conspiratorial than it appears at first glance.
Penske’s manufacturer in NASCAR is Dodge. He and the team headed by Richard Petty but owned by George Gillett (also owns the Montreal Canadiens and Liverpool FC) are the only teams running Dodge in NASCAR. Petty mentioned earlier this week that since Chrysler filed for bankruptcy the factory support Chrysler is contracted to supply them has stopped. It’s not outside the realm of possibility that Penske is eyeing having a brand under his control for NASCAR with which to supply his needs and that of other team. Especially if he can bring in some European engineering and cash to help with it all, using the ‘in’ such an arrangement can create with the NASCAR fan base as enticement. You think Toyota’s pumped hundreds of millions in NASCAR the past few years for the fun of it? They’re using it as a way of building brand loyalty — “well, if they’re willing to support our sport they’re all right.”
Daimler-Saturn? Penske has the connections from his old Dodge days…
Maybe buy the 350cid engine line from GM? Hey! It could happen.
Fletch (indicating framed photo: Hey, you and Tommy LaSorda!
Chief Karlin (smugly): Yeah.
Fletch (smashing photo with fist): I hate Tommy LaSorda!