Oh, this is rich:
On the Democratic Party v. the CIA front, a couple of new developments are worth noting. Democratic consultant Bob Shrum appeared on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe†to insist that the CIA “lied us into a war [Iraq]†and continued his rant, asking, “Do they lie? Yeah, they sure do.â€
This is, I think, exactly the wrong approach for Democrats to take. Mr. Shrum seems incapable of distinguishing between a mistake — even a massive mistake (which is what the CIA made in the run-up to the Iraq war) — from a lie. There is no evidence that the CIA intentionally provided false information to force a war with Iraq. In fact, many CIA analysts opposed the war. And whatever mistakes the CIA made, were mistakes echoed by almost every other intelligence agency in the world, including those of nations that opposed the Iraq war.
From a political perspective, however, opponents should take advantage of Shrum’s calumny. As Joe Scarborough clearly understands, it simply reminds people of some of the worst traits of today’s Left — from its almost reflexive disdain for the CIA to its angry and bitter tone. It doesn’t help Shrum’s case that the current CIA director, Leon Panetta — formerly a Democratic Member of the House from California’s delegation, as well as Bill Clinton’s chief of staff — wrote a memo not only directly contradicting what Shrum says, but also — by the force and logic of Panetta argument — accusing Speaker Pelosi of herself lying.
Well, you know, this is a thing of which we must get to the bottom. Now, I’m not sure exactly how it is that Shrum got into those CIA briefings on EIT, but I hope that this brave speaker of truth to power will stay in the public eye and continue to insist on hearings.
More brave speaking of truth to power at TPM Muckraker, where it’s discovered that Nancy Pelosi couldn’t have been briefed on waterboarding because the term “enhanced interrogation technique” wasn’t coined until 2004. Cognitive dissonance of the highest order.
William Jacobson spends more time spelling it out than I will, because it’s so asinine.
Heh:
To stanch the CIA’s bleeding morale, Democrats have tried reassurance. President Obama, speaking at CIA headquarters, took the Fred Rogers approach: “Don’t be discouraged that we have to acknowledge potentially we’ve made some mistakes. That’s how we learn.” Yes, children, hypocritical congressional investigations and foreign kangaroo courts are really our friends. House intelligence committee Chairman Silvestre Reyes sent a sympathy note to Langley: “In recent days, as the public debate regarding CIA’s interrogation practices has raged, you have been very much in my thoughts.” There should be a section at Hallmark for intelligence operatives unfairly accused of war crimes.
Thomas L. Friedman is off today, but Maureen Dowd is off everyday, and she’s in particularly fine fettle when she claims that by pushing back against Democrat lies about the CIA, they’ve gotten themselves a “third term.” Because this isn’t about lies, oh, no: this is about anything that makes EVIL people like Cheney and Rummy look better than they should. Looking . . . looking . . . no, nothing about Gore’s eternal term of influence, but read it, because it’s a perfect example of stupid considering itself clever and funny. “So, Wonder Boy is at a toney restaurant with Axelrod, digging into his aborted baby dijonnaise, when . . . .”
h/t Darleen
I doubt Shrum got into any CIA briefing. He is a political consultant (although why makes no sense since any candidate he works for loses), not an elected politican. But I agree take advantage of this and beat Shrum and the Dems over this issue like baby Harp seals.
And in a related issue, even Harry Reid is recognizing the potential fall out over some of Obama’s decisions: I can’t make it any more clear,” Reid said. “We will never allow terrorists to be released in the United States.”
Reid is not doing this over principal, but out of political shrewdness. Still, this is important to support for all of us because 1) it is the right thing to do, and 2) it is an excellent wedge issue against Obama and Holder and the left nut roots they are doing this for vs the Democratic controlled congress wanting to be re-elected.
I think maybe the CIA is an entity with which I would not want to pick a fight. I think Shrum has decided to enjoy him some hubris, since Pelosi seems to be enjoying it so much. I think probably Shrum or Pelosi or other hubristic “The CIA Is Lying” types may have an icky fetish or a hidden bank account or some other secret they’d prefer remained secret. I think the hubristic ones will not always have the power they presently do. I think the CIA is not going anywhere and has a long memory. I think hubris is called “hubris” instead of just “arrogance” or “pride” because hubris foreshadows some sort of downfall in the later acts.
Sad thing is when when this guy or Pelosi accuse the CIA of lying they are pandering to their base.
I think “base” is a highly appropriate word to describe the Left.
Hubris –> Nemesis
Bring it on
I suppose if you treat this like chess you could take the political operative Shrumpawn with a Morrispawn.
Anyone check to see if the latest Dowd is not also plagarized?
This has always been a peeve of mine. People will misspeak, and catch themselves by saying “oops, I lied.”, then proceed to correct what they’d just said. That’s not a lie. It’s only a lie if you say something you don’t really believe to be true.
I consider it possible to lie and tell the truth at the same time: say something that you believe to be false (which makes it a lie) but it happens to actually be true.
You can believe someone else’s lie and repeat it, but you’re not really lying, just spreading gossip, so long as you are honest about the source for your “information” and don’t state that you have direct knowledge rather than hearsay. (“According to British Intelligence sources….”)
In the real world, we usually don’t have perfect knowledge. Donald Rumsfeld’s famous “known unknowns” was mocked by the Proggs, perhaps because they so often use our failure to achieve perfection as the evidence that we need their statist programs to do what we flawed mortals could not. It’s a handy trick; the CIA got something wrong = “{Bush|CIA} lied”. FEMA didn’t engage Montgomery Scott’s improved warp-capable transporters to beam people out of NOLA before Katrina hit = “George Bush hates black people”. The army didn’t uparmor every Humvee simultaneously the very instant their analysis of the IED and RPG threat suggested doing so = “they don’t care about soldiers”. I can do this all day, and so can they.
So, how is the CIA supposed to function if the party in charge thinks it lies like a dog?
Comment by Techie on 5/20 @ 8:02 am #
They don’t WANT it to function.
Defining “lie” down. Expanding the definition to the point that almost any thing said or written can be called, with definitional accuracy, a lie.
This will allow real, actual, purposeful, lying to be hardly worth the time it take to mention it. They have done this for other words where it is politically advantageous to have the category enlarged. Or to conflate different things into a single word so as to make them resonate in the mind as the same thing.
Remember how the action of lying was treated during the Clinton impeachment times. Why lying almost became the most just and honorable thing anyone could do. “Everybody lies” didn’t originate with “House”.
I think that we should all give Shrum a pass on his delusional point of view…
I mean, consider the source and all…
After all, the guy was Hubert Humphrey’s campaign manager…
And if he thought he could get Humphrey elected, hot on the heels of LBJ’s “progressing” of America, then there’s a bridge nearby me in Brooklyn that he might be interested in…
Yep. I just recently learned this formulation from reading VDH. Makes perfect sense once you’re made aware of it.
To whatever extent the CIA and other government agencies disliked President Bush, I suspect they miss that administration more and more every day. President Obama and the Democrats are hostile toward anyone anywhere who remotely threatens or limits their power.
Many of them believe they truly do know everything, so the concepts of “known unknowns” and “unknown unknowns” are as alien to them as a cell phone to Isaac Newton. They plaster over the gaps in their knowledge with either bluster or “theories” that, when pricked by reality, fly across the room making flatulent noises.
Shrum’s never meant a campaign he couldn’t tank.
A Clinton-era hard drive containing over a terabyte of information has suddenly and inexplicably gone missing from the National Archives….
Hmmmm.
The missing hard drive contained details of the “extraordinary renditions” Bill Clinton personally authorized against terrorism suspects. If Congress is going to pursue allegations of “torture” against President Bush, all evidence that Bill Clinton knowingly authorized real torture in multiple foreign countries must be destroyed.
Remember, Sandy Berger stole and destroyed classified anti-terrorism documents from the National Archives only after Congress authorized a comprehensive investigation by the September 11 Commission.
The exact same thing is happening here.
#17 Zaphod
It’s amazing how blatant and obvious they are about it and still the Media gives them a pass.
Then again, that’s probably why they are so blatant.
#18 Spiny Norman,
Republicans need to be demanding all records, documentation and testimony regarding the “extraordinary renditions” Bill Clinton personally authorized. Clinton supported rendition precisely because it allowed other countries to go much further in interrogations, i.e. torture.
Start demanding records and testimony, and the Democrats will quickly shut the fuck up.
By the way, you’re absolutely right.
Democrats are this blatant about stealing and destroying classified information precisely because they know the press WILL give them a pass. (Do you remember ANY questions for Sandy Berger from ABC, NBC, CBS or CNN? Neither do I.)
Zaphod, thanks for that.
Zaphod, good call. I hope you dont mind that posted your quote over at Belmont Club…and linked back to Dan’s post.
Like Glenn Reynolds I suspect a Hsu connection.
the harlem globetrotters asked shrum
to join the team…
update/
the washington generals win!