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“New Allegations Of White House Threats Over Chrysler” [updated, then updated twice more]

From Business Insider:

Creditors to Chrysler describe negotiations with the company and the Obama administration as “a farce,” saying the administration was bent on forcing their hands using hardball tactics and threats.

Conversations with administration officials left them expecting that they would be politically targeted, two participants in the negotiations said.

Although the focus has so been on allegations that the White House threatened Perella Weinberg, sources familiar with the matter say that other firms felt they were threatened as well. None of the sources would agree to speak except on the condition of anonymity, citing fear of political repercussions.

Calm, sober centrism. Not fascism. No. Mustn’t stoop to the level of our political opponents and call fascism fascism. Otherwise we’re no better than they were when they were calling everything decidedly NOT fascism fascism.

Oh. And while we’re at it, stop making the claim that the left is forcing us to cede control of language. Such a claim is perfectly outrageous!

Ahem.

The sources, who represent creditors to Chrysler, say they were taken aback by the hardball tactics that the Obama administration employed to cajole them into acquiescing to plans to restructure Chrysler. One person described the administration as the most shocking “end justifies the means” group they have ever encountered. Another characterized Obama was “the most dangerous smooth talker on the planet- and I knew Kissinger.” Both were voters for Obama in the last election.

And? Hey, fellas. He won. Ends justifying the means is part and parcel of the leftism you voted for. Perhaps you didn’t care when that mindset was only marshaled in the service of getting elected, but how could you not see that it would spill over into every other thing the man plans to do, from reorganizing the control over car companies in favor of labor, to signaling that he will nominate judges, under the rubric of pragmatism, that will follow the same intellectual path?

One participant in negotiations said that the administration’s tactic was to present what one described as a “madman theory of the presidency” in which the President is someone to be feared because he was willing to do anything to get his way. The person said this threat was taken very seriously by his firm.

The White House has denied the allegation that it threatened Perella Weinberg.

Last week Obama singled out the firms that continue to oppose his plan for Chrysler, saying he would not stand with them. Perella Weinberg says it was convinced to support the plan by this stark drawing of a line between firms that have the president’s backing and those that did not. They didn’t want to be on the wrong side of Obama. Privately, administration officials have expressed confidence that other firms will switch sides for this reason.

These allegations add to the picture of an administration willing to use intimidation to win over support for its Chrysler plans–and then categorically deny it.

— Which, that’s hardly a bad strategy when you can count on an obsequious press not only to guard your flank, but to act as your forward attack dogs, as well.

Thank god for the free press protecting us from the powerful, is all I have to say.

Really. Relax, folks. Olbermann’s got your backs.

(h/t bh)

****
update: More corroboration here? Possibly. Here’s the follow-up post.

(thanks to urthshu)

****
update 2: Gauntlet:

Here’s a shock. When hedge funds, pension funds, mutual funds, and individuals, including very sweet grandmothers, lend their money they expect to get it back. However, they know, or should know, they take the risk of not being paid back. But if such a bad event happens it usually does not result in a complete loss. A firm in bankruptcy still has assets. It’s not always a pretty process. Bankruptcy court is about figuring out how to most fairly divvy up the remaining assets based on who is owed what and whose contracts come first. The process already has built-in partial protections for employees and pensions, and can set lenders’ contracts aside in order to help the company survive, all of which are the rules of the game lenders know before they lend. But, without this recovery process nobody would lend to risky borrowers. Essentially, lenders accept less than shareholders (means bonds return less than stocks) in good times only because they get more than shareholders in bad times.

The above is how it works in America, or how it’s supposed to work. The President and his team sought to avoid having Chrysler go through this process, proposing their own plan for re-organizing the company and partially paying off Chrysler’s creditors. Some bond holders thought this plan unfair. Specifically, they thought it unfairly favored the United Auto Workers, and unfairly paid bondholders less than they would get in bankruptcy court. So, they said no to the plan and decided, as is their right, to take their chances in the bankruptcy process. But, as his quotes above show, the President thought they were being unpatriotic or worse.

Let’s be clear, it is the job and obligation of all investment managers, including hedge fund managers, to get their clients the most return they can. They are allowed to be charitable with their own money, and many are spectacularly so, but if they give away their clients’ money to share in the “sacrifice”, they are stealing. Clients of hedge funds include, among others, pension funds of all kinds of workers, unionized and not. The managers have a fiduciary obligation to look after their clients’ money as best they can, not to support the President, nor to oppose him, nor otherwise advance their personal political views. That’s how the system works. If you hired an investment professional and he could preserve more of your money in a financial disaster, but instead he decided to spend it on the UAW so you could “share in the sacrifice”, you would not be happy.

I’m wondering how long before the mainstream press finally feels pressured enough to cover any of this.

The mustard is off the hotdog!

(h/t Pablo)

****
update 3: More, from the New Ledger:

Imagine telling your bank that you’ve decided to pay off your mortgage in full, but you’re only going to give them 35 cents on the dollar, take it or leave it. Then when they protest, you lose patience, walk out of the room, and go on national television to say that your bank is a bad actor, they’ve exhausted your patience, and now they’ll have to settle for a big fat zero. And by the way, maybe the White House press corps will start spreading nasty rumors about them.

That analogy in no way exaggerates the situation that Chrysler’s debtholders find themselves in. It’s very, very hard to escape the conclusion that the President of the United States has decided to declare war on a group of people who have lent their own money in pursuit of an honest return, and are guilty of nothing more looking out for their own interests.

As it seldom has before, the US government under Barack Obama is directly superseding private contracts, ex post facto. They can change the rules on anyone, anytime, for reasons they only have to explain through a cowed and uninquisitive press.

The next time you have money to invest, give that some very careful thought.

Well, Obama did say he was going to make you work.

What he didn’t say is that he was going to make you work for him, and for free.

267 Replies to ““New Allegations Of White House Threats Over Chrysler” [updated, then updated twice more]”

  1. Rob Crawford says:

    The White House has denied the allegation that it threatened Perella Weinberg.

    Actually, no. I believe the precise quote was there was no evidence of a threat being made.

  2. Andrew the Noisy says:

    On the one hand, I doubt very much that Obama is the first president to pull this sort of thing.

    On the other hand, that doesn’t make it not tyrannical, and if you marry it to ideology, that doesn’t make it not fascism.

  3. The particularly frustrating thing is that Obama is in essence taking money away from these businesses and giving it to the unions. He’s telling them they lose their investment and giving that investment to the UAW, who has to give nothing and sacrifice nothing. That’s not just illegal, its horrific in its blatant corruption.

  4. mojo says:

    RICO prosecutions, anyone? Bueller?

  5. Rob Crawford says:

    The particularly frustrating thing is that Obama is in essence taking money away from these businesses and giving it to the unions.

    If by “businesses” you mean the investors, rather than the car companies. The investors ponied up cash to help the car companies operate in exchange for first dibs on getting paid back. In a bankruptcy, they’d be paid back before other debtors.

  6. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Well, of course. The Union is poor underpaid workers and the businesses are rich bourgeois. How could the President NOT comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable?

  7. Jim in KC says:

    One thing I don’t want is Olbermann behind me.

  8. lee says:

    One thing I don’t want is Olbermann behind me.

    I wouldn’t worry, Olbermann is dickless.

  9. kelly says:

    Add the fact that the lawyer representing Wasserstein Perella voted for Il Douche and you get something like…irony.

  10. David R. Block says:

    Hey, it’s the Chicago way!!!

    Definitely a bug and not a feature.

  11. Carin says:

    One of my husband’s suppliers also is a big supplier (of a heavy duty battery) of Chrysler. They’re out $300,000. Small suppliers like him are shit out of luck. The UAW gets ownership, while suppliers are going to struggle.

    And, if ANYONE is innocent in this entire dealo, it’s the small business supplier.

  12. Pablo says:

    Cavuto is interviewing Lauria, who has intimated that his client is displeased with the focus this is bring on them, and he’s refusing any further comment on the threat issue.

    Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

  13. gus says:

    Which group does Obama need. The investors who have first crack a Chrysler in a bankruptcy or UNIONS.
    Obama needs to go away.

  14. Tim P says:

    “On the one hand, I doubt very much that Obama is the first president to pull this sort of thing.”

    Your correct alright,

    In 1933 and 1934, President Franklin D. Roosevelt and his New Deal Congress–with assistance from the Supreme Court–seized gold coins, gold bullion, and United States gold certificates from common Americans; terminated the domestic redemption of all currency in gold; and outlawed and repudiated all private and public contracts and other debts requiring payment in gold (so-called “gold-clause contracts”). But the applicability of this, as of any other, precedent to the future requires careful consideration of its facts.

    Then let’s not forget Wilson’s Alien & Sedition Acts

    When it comes to fascism and demagogouery(sp?)it will be the democrats who lead us there.

    Not that the republicans are much better but they at least understands who butters their bread.

  15. Mike says:

    Y’know, being proved right again and again is more dismayingly tiresome than I ever would’ve imagined.

  16. McGehee says:

    Because of FDR we got a constitutional amendment limiting presidents to two elected terms, or a total of ten years, whichever was more.

    I wonder what constitutional amendment we’ll get because of Bonehead Teleprompterpants?

  17. Matt says:

    CORPORATE FATCATS !!!!

  18. kelly says:

    Y’know, being proved right again and again is more dismayingly tiresome than I ever would’ve imagined.

    And it’s only been 115 days.

    I wish I could work up some Shadenfreude for all the Wall Streeters who showered money on Il Douche‘s campaign but I just can’t. Same goes for all the tech guys in Silicon Valley. The whole country is going to pay dearly for electing this vapid narcissist socialist.

  19. Adriane says:

    #17 – I live in hope.

    Balanced budgets over a presidential term; term limits on the Senate and House; flat tax …

    I hope to do some things like this on the state level, blessed as I am to live in a state with citizens initiatives.

  20. Sdferr says:

    Don Boudreaux at Cafe Hayek wonders what James Madison would make of the Obama administration and the uncertainty they purposely engender, quoting Madison from The Federalist 44,:

    Bills of attainder, ex-post-facto laws, and laws impairing the obligation of contracts, are contrary to the first principles of the social compact, and to every principle of sound legislation. […] Very properly, therefore, have the convention added this constitutional bulwark in favor of personal security and private rights; and I am much deceived if they have not, in so doing, as faithfully consulted the genuine sentiments as the undoubted interests of their constituents. The sober people of America are weary of the fluctuating policy which has directed the public councils. They have seen with regret and indignation that sudden changes and legislative interferences, in cases affecting personal rights, become jobs in the hands of enterprising and influential speculators, and snares to the more-industrious and less informed part of the community. They have seen, too, that one legislative interference is but the first link of a long chain of repetitions, every subsequent interference being naturally produced by the effects of the preceding. They very rightly infer, therefore, that some thorough reform is wanting, which will banish speculations on public measures, inspire a general prudence and industry, and give a regular course to the business of society.

  21. […] Jeff says it, so I don’t have to: Calm, sober centrism. Not fascism. No. Mustn’t stoop to the level of our political opponents and call fascism fascism. Otherwise we’re no better than they were when they were calling everything decidedly NOT fascism fascism. […]

  22. Techie says:

    My one solace in this emerging fiasco is the thought that many of these dunderheads voted FOR all this last November.

    Is this Change they can believe in?

  23. John S says:

    What did you expect from a Kenyan thug? The irony is that the UAW may own Chrysler but those factories will never reopen. The Obama scam is blatantly illegal and violates the 5th amendment. It’ll be the middle of President Palin’s second term before the Supreme Court sorts out this mess.

  24. Abe Froman says:

    As I’ve been saying since the beginning, 30 years or so of economic growth have left a lot of people fat and unserious. Proggies have been the same tedious creatures through all of that time and now are doing their best to seize the moment. But they can’t help but knock the dust out of peoples’ eyes in the process and if Teleprompter Jesus maintains his course his approval numbers will only go down.

  25. SBP says:

    Both were voters for Obama in the last election.

    Yo, fellas — maybe you shouldn’t vote for the communist next time.

    Assuming we’re allowed to vote next time.

  26. dicentra says:

    In October 2008 Michael Barone wrote “The Coming Obama Thugocracy,” and it was pretty chilling then. But what Barone talks about in his article (shutting down opposition viewpoints) is tiddly-winks compared to this Chrysler catastrophe.

    Raise your hands: did anyone think that 100 days into his presidency he’d already be handing the car companies to the UAW and screwing over the investors? This soon? Really?

    Fortunately, Our Betters Inside The Beltway will not mince words this time: they’ll unapologetically call it “thugocracy,” “statism,” “corporatism,” and maybe even “fascism.”

    I’ll be over here holding my breath.

  27. Rob Crawford says:

    I wonder what constitutional amendment we’ll get because of Bonehead Teleprompterpants?

    “Neither the federal government nor the states may own any property excepting real estate.”

    “The government shall not issue money, benefits, or other remuneration to any individual or organization except in exchange for services rendered or as redress for grievances against the government.”

    “No employees or agents of the federal government or the states shall organize for the purposes of collective bargaining.”

    “Any employee, agent, or official of the federal government or the states guilty of interference in a lawful contract shall be imprisoned for a period of no less than ten years, disenfranchised, and barred from owning any property within these United States.”

    “Any employee, agent, or official of the federal government who appropriates, budgets, or otherwise disburses government funds to relatives (within three degrees), campaign donors, or his own agents shall be imprisoned for life with no parole, and those receiving the funds shall be imprisoned for ten years, disenfranchised, and barred from owning property within these United States.”

  28. gus says:

    Do you remember when Obama scoffed at being called Socialist. The mother fucker is Marxist. There are very very well educated and highly paid morons who didn’t see through Obama and his Marxist/Narcissistic bullshit. Liberals are too stupid to see Opie for what he is. Those who weren’t already needy losers are regretting this human waste we have in office.

  29. bear1909 says:

    Not my President. It is this thuggery that will be his undoing. Buffett has soured on him, although he still says “he’s a nice guy.”

    All of this malarkey was done before the 100 days was up. And these will cost him his Presidency as resistance begins to build
    some resolve. These are not faceless taxpayers…these are democrats with money invested in an American company, who voted for this
    moronic tool.

    Reap what you sow, Soetoro. See you on your way down. “The Strange and Brief Political Career of Barry Soetoro”. Coming to
    a big box bookstore near you.

    And that birth certificate, the college records, his passports….they are all out there just waiting for a judge to order a trial and shake em
    out in discovery….by Barry. DLTDHYITAOYWO. Take Lt. Worff with you.

    What a disgrace.

    Bear1909 out.

  30. Rob Crawford says:

    Actually, the first one needs an exception for military hardware. Beyond that, though…

  31. This would never have happened if Rush Limbaugh had been nice to our President. Why can’t you vile conservatives just let the man eat his waffle?!?

  32. SBP says:

    I wonder what constitutional amendment we’ll get because of Bonehead Teleprompterpants?

    Most of these would be a good start.

    I don’t agree with every one of them 100% as written, but the gist is there.

    Prof. Barnett is soliciting advice for improvement.

  33. Jeffersonian says:

    Lies! Lies!! All lies!!!!

  34. AngryDumbo says:

    Perhaps Perrella-Weinberg was under the impression that the 16.2 million that it paid Rahm Emanuel bought them just a little bit of influence?

  35. Abe Froman says:

    Perhaps Perrella-Weinberg the UAW was under the impression that the 16.2 million that it paid Rahm Emanuel countless millions and campaigning man hours for Democrats bought them just a little bit of influence?

    FTFY

  36. Abe Froman says:

    Screw it. Strike-thru didn’t work for some reason.

  37. The Monster says:

    Because of FDR we got a constitutional amendment limiting presidents to two elected terms, or a total of ten years, whichever was more.

    More like whichever is less. The rule is you can’t be elected more than twice, and if you take over a term that someone else was elected to before it’s half over, you can only be elected once. It is theoretically possible for someone to serve more than ten years through creative resignations of sham candidates, but I suspect that sort of shenanigans would be brought to the Supremes as a blatant violation of the, ahem, intent of the amendment.

  38. SBP says:

    Perhaps Perrella-Weinberg the UAW was under the impression that the 16.2 million that it paid Rahm Emanuel

    Feeding the sharks only works until you run out of chum.

  39. bh says:

    When Jeff first posted on this topic, when you had to read between the lines a bit more, “Crab People” immediately tried to bluff him off the topic with a bunch of misdirection and bullshit.

    One person trying to find the truth, another person trying to hide it.

    Embiggen that to the population as a whole and that’s where this nation is politically as a whole.

  40. i can’t get the trackback thinger to work. and yes, i read the manual. so if anyone knows how to make my eljay track back to wordpress blogs properly please let me know. TIA.

    anyway, for now i’ll just drop my links to posts which link to PW posts in comments. like this.

  41. Ric Locke says:

    Professor Barnett is a bright guy, but he has the sensibilities of a lawyer — little bits, all planned out in detail. He’s left the barn door that horse got out through wide open for the rest of the herd. The Interstate Commerce Clause is part of what’s at the bottom of this, and his version extends it.

    XIV.1: The Sovereignty of the United States rests with the People, and only with the People; persons elected, appointed, or employed under this Constitution, the Constitutions of the several States, and the laws, rules, and regulations appertaining thereto, are hirelings entrusted with the exercise of those obligations and duties the People find onerous or distasteful; but no person gains, whether by election, appointment, or employment, or any other circumstance, any privilege, perquisite, or right not fully enjoyed by the People.

    XIV.4: This Constitution does not grant Rights to the People, or to any person, the granting of Rights being a matter of Providence, whether divine or otherwise, and not subject to the Acts of Rulers or Legislatures; its sole purpose is to specify the Powers and Privileges of Government, and to restrict those Powers and Privileges to those absolutely necessary for its function.

    XIV.3: Interstate commerce is the movement of goods and services among the several States, and the regulation thereof consists of specifying the standards to be met for such movement, including weights and measures, and the fees, duties, and excises due for such movement; but the Congress may, with the advice and consent of the Legislatures of the States adjacent, regulate the uses of waterways, the atmosphere, and other natural resources not wholly within the States.

    XIV.4: No person who has served twelve years in any and all Offices specified by this Constitution, together with such subsidiary Offices as may be filled by appointment with the advice and consent of the Senate, may again be elected or appointed to any such Office, and such persons may not be elected or appointed to any Office, if at the end of the term of that Office they would have served more than twelve years, except Judges holding office during good behavior.

    ****

    That last would probably have to include a Grandfather clause to have a chance of passage, but I despise the idea.

    Regards,
    Ric

  42. happyfeet says:

    Buffett is a worthless douche I think. I don’t care if he lives in a modest house someone should kick the dirty socialist-loving canasta-playing midwestern old fart in his shin hard and then run away really fast I think.

  43. Tman says:

    What is really scary about this is that Ford, which kept its hands clean from the whole bailout disaster is now going to be in direct competition against the UAW.

    Good thing Ford isn’t Union! Right? oh. shit. They are?

    well, that is a bit of a mess isn’t it.

  44. Ric Locke says:

    …oh, and append to #4: …and military officers, whose terms shall not be subject to this Article until they reach flag rank.

    Regards,
    Ric

  45. B Moe says:

    You despise the idea of a grandfather clause, or the idea of term limits, Ric?

  46. urthshu says:

    Don’t know if it’s true, but it sure sounds like the man:

    “Who the fuck do you think you’re dealing with? We’ll have the IRS audit your fund. Every one of your employees. Your investors. Then we will have the Securities and Exchange Commission rip through your books looking for anything and everything and nothing we find to destroy you with.”

  47. dicentra says:

    There are very very well educated and highly paid morons who didn’t see through Obama and his Marxist/Narcissistic bullshit. Liberals are too stupid to see Opie for what he is.

    The Left know exactly who Obama is: one of them. They are 100% on board with what he is doing and have been for decades. They’ve lied to the rest of the educated people who thought that Oprompta wouldn’t hurt them, but in fact they were in his sights from the beginning.

    Louchette, I don’t know that WordPress and eljay speak the same language enough for you to post trackbacks.

    Abe, you have to spell out the word “strike” in the tag for it to work.

    <strike>thus</strike> = thus

  48. beedub says:

    Another photograph of that disgusting, anti-gay marriage, ditzy fucking idiot found:

    http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2009/05/gay-marriage-opponent-topless-photos-leaked.html

    …This time full-frontal!!

  49. thank you dicentra. that’s what i’m thinking now too. at least it made me read all the tutorials. never a bad thing. ;-)

  50. dorkafork says:

    I just hope nobody here says they want Obama to fail to threaten and bully American civilians, because that would be wrong somehow.

  51. […] Jeff G. advises the libs want us to just move along, nothing to see here. Except fascism in the making. Calm, sober centrism. Not fascism. No. Mustn’t stoop to the level of our political opponents and call fascism fascism. Otherwise we’re no better than they were when they were calling everything decidedly NOT fascism fascism. […]

  52. dicentra says:

    dorkafork?

    Wow, long time no see. How ya been?

  53. kim says:

    What’s he going to do when someone who is not afraid of him refuses to yield. It may lend new meaning to the term MADman, as in Mutually Assured Destruction.

    This is a dangerous, spoilt, child.
    ==========================

  54. router says:

    uaw “owns” gm & chrysler. when can ford file anti trusts suits against the uaw?

  55. happyfeet says:

    We were trying to figure that one out when I was in Texas, Mr. router and what we decided on was to drink. I might could buy a Ford again one day I remember saying. But I didn’t say it super enthusiastically cause greasy UAW thugs would still be involved even if they didn’t technically own the company. Socialism is gay.

  56. […] Jeff Goldstein: “Hey, fellas. He won. Ends justifying the means is part and parcel of the leftism you voted […]

  57. bastiches says:

    INSTALANCHE!

    There Jeff. No more whinging about being ignored by the biggies… at least not for the next 3 months.

  58. JHoward says:

    Instalanche. Goldstein goes deep; he scores.

    So Oprompta has that going for him.

  59. JHoward says:

    These 115 days in, the polls show as big a divide as can be imagined between R and D. Aside from adding that stick to the blaze that is leftard hypocricy — remember HarryNancyBarney’s bipartisanship? Of course you do — I’d wager that at this rate in six months Barky’s already lost 2012. Comment @28 wins the thread, and if enacted its contents would be a very good thing indeed.

  60. JHoward says:

    nice itals, JHo…

  61. router says:

    i repeated a question ask by a reader of mr. goldberg

  62. Tman says:

    Instalanche! Everyone look busy!!!

  63. bh says:

    I think Glenn must have been in the comments of the other post and realized that Jeff’s training with a 100 lb weight vest now. Like Obama, Jeff rules through fear and intimidation.

  64. JHoward says:

    Nationalism

    Fascists see the struggle of nation and race as fundamental in society, in opposition to communism’s perception of class struggle[60] and in opposition to capitalism’s focus on the value of productivity and individualism.[citation needed] The nation is seen in fascism as a single organic entity which binds people together by their ancestry and is seen as a natural unifying force of people.[61][citation needed] Fascists promote the unification and expansion of influence, power, and/or territory of and for their nation.[citation needed] Fascism seeks to solve existing economic, political, and social problems by achieving a millenarian national rebirth, exalting the nation or race above all else, and promoting cults of unity, strength and purity.[20][29][44][62][63] Benito Mussolini stated in 1922, “For us the nation is not just territory but something spiritual… A nation is great when it translates into reality the force of its spirit.”[64]

    Well then.

  65. urthshu says:

    >>Instalanche! Everyone look busy!!!

    Union Shlub #1: “Can’t. Onna smoke break.”

    Union Shlub #2: “Gotyer self a little problem dere.”

    Union Shlub #3: “Wo wo wo! Can’t park dat dere! Where’s yer poimit?”

  66. bh says:

    urthshu, thanks for those links above. If I’m reading those posts correctly, that is another independent corroboration of this behavior.

    Drip, drip, drip…

  67. Sdferr says:

    Echoing blowhard here urthshu, those are welcome links, so sending out more thanks to you.

  68. urthshu says:

    Oh, hey, its only gonna get more interesting. Heh. *shudder*

  69. Sdferr says:

    Thomas Sowell, “Empathy” vs. Law, goes there:

    Those people who just accept soothing words from politicians they like are gambling with the future of a nation. If you were German, would you be in favor of a law “to relieve the distress of the German people and nation”? That was the law that gave Hitler dictatorial power.

    He was just another German chancellor at the time. He was not elected on a platform of war, dictatorship, or genocide. He got the power to do those things because of a law “to relieve the distress of the German people.”

    When you buy words, you had better know what you are buying.

  70. I think it likely that all the investors in the room were old enough to be thinking, “uh-oh, disembodied jack-in-the box.”

    Fold

  71. bh says:

    I saw that, sdferr. Sowell seldom disappoints. I hope he lives for another 50 years and writes another 50 books.

    I’m not sure, but I think this might be the first time that Glenn linked to a post that touched on the “F” word in relation to Obama. Good for him.

  72. router says:

    maybe we should ask a constitutional law “professor” about the legality of this action by the president?

  73. Mikey NTH says:

    jeff – linkylove from Instapundit!

  74. guinsPen says:

    bastiches?

    We don’t need no stinking bastiches.

  75. MarkJ says:

    “Relax, folks. Olbermann’s got your backs.”

    When Olber-mutt tells someone he’s “got their back,” that’s merely a cue for for them to pull out the K-Y and lube up.

  76. Mikey NTH says:

    And at this time of the day, I’m a goin’ to get drunk.

    Why not? I’m lookin’ at furlough days after putting in non-required mandatory unpaid overtime. Oh, I’ll meet all of my ‘drop-dead’ dates because that is just the kind of guy I am. And I am grateful for just ‘furlough days’ as opposed to actual layoff – though I hope I’m not hurt on a furlough ’cause no one has explained that part.

    But Capt. Pabst, here’s lookin’ at you.

  77. ThomasD says:

    I’m tempted to laugh at the poor fools in Obama’s crosshairs. Especially when they confess they actually voted for the guy. Hedge fund types may not be the sharpest, but they are hardly dim bulbs. Unfortunately they thought they knew what they were voting for, a big government machine Democrat. They figured that, like before, their super special protected ox would be the last (and if then certainly least) gored.

    Oops, too bad. Unfortunately for them what they failed to realize is that Obama is not your typical Democrat. He’s not in this just to reward his political cronies in the unions (although he does need to get that done.) But that alone is far too petty, run of the mill corruption for an ego like his. No, he needs to make this something more than petty politics. Obama is intent on paying off the unions at the specific expense of the most privileged types of capital.

    This is as much symbolic as practical. So what if hedge funds represent the life savings and retirement hopes of millions of union and non-union workers. The broker they get the more dependent they become. The more dependent they become the more pliant they are come re-election time. Obama knows that for the progressive vision of the future to succeed there must be no viable alternative, and that means systematic destruction of capital. Where better to start than preferred bond holders?

  78. Mikey NTH says:

    Thomas – as the Earl of Ickenham said, there is only so much sweetness and light to spread about.

    Sorry investment guys, but in this dark Wodehouse novel you are the Duke of Dunstable; you can’t get the Empress of Blandings for your piggery. The Empress will stay with Emsworth, and some young rattle-headed youngster will get your cheque.

  79. Pablo says:

    Check out the stones on this guy.

    This is America. We have a free enterprise system that has worked spectacularly for us for two hundred plus years. When it fails it fixes itself. Most importantly, it is not an owned lackey of the oval office to be scolded for disobedience by the President.

    I am ready for my “personalized” tax rate now.

  80. bh says:

    I’m starting to wonder if Obama understands these guys. Not many folks can pay hundreds of thousands in legal fees without batting an eye.

    These guys can.

    I kinda like Glenn’s take:

    Why be afraid? You can tie this bailout up in legal knots if you’re willing to go to court. Obama needs it to succeed more than you do.

  81. guinsPen says:

    We don’t need no stinking bastiches.

    We are the Federalists! You know, the mounted …

  82. TorchesToRome says:

    Hey Jeff congratulation on your Instapundit linkage..don’t worry you’re still OUTLAW in my book!

  83. RTO Trainer says:

    RICO prosecutions, anyone? Bueller?

    Once the deals go through, how about antitrust prosecutions against both the Government and the UAW.

  84. geoffb says:

    Abe, you have to spell out the word “strike” in the tag for it to work.

    del also works, like this

  85. Pablo says:

    It boggles the mind to see progressives deciding that because the White House and a corporation deny a charge, that the charge must be false. Imagine, for instance, these folks accepting a version of events simply because it had been put forth by the Bush White House and Halliburton. But this is exactly what Think Progress and Media Matters are doing. It’s as if their cognitive critical apparatus had simply stopped functioning sometime in January.


    Heh.

  86. Mikey NTH says:

    Of course, taking Obama to court over this implies that he will take them to court over every fiddling violation of every fiddling regulation that can be found. A government can bleed any ‘person’ to death, no matter how that person is legally constituted. Can these funds say that every tranaction they have made are all correct according to the law?

    And all of the campaign donations haven’t bought them anything either. That just sucks – he won’t stay bought, and the rental time isn’t very long.

    When it finally falls apart (and everything does) it will be interesting to poke through the rubble – in an academic sense.

  87. Pablo says:

    Sounds like Lauria finally remembered the rules about keeping client information confidential.

    A threat from the White House is not client information, nor is it subject to attorney client privilege. Liar.

  88. When the current UAW contract expires do you think they’ll pick GM, Chrysler or Ford as the lead or target company for bargaining?

  89. bh says:

    That’s true, Mikey. On the other hand, if you were a participant in these funds and management gave money away on your behalf?

    You’d sue them.

  90. Pablo says:

    Charles, I’m gonna guess Fiat.

  91. Rocket says:

    To quote Bob Dole, “where’s the outrage”? Or better yet, where are the voices who are supposed to stand up and fight the insipid ugliness that will bring us all down? I fear that too many think that because this particular theft doesn’t directly touch them, its OK to sit on the sidelines and let the storm pass.

  92. bh says:

    meya, you’re just going to obfuscate, misdirect and attempt to muddy the waters. Couldn’t we just stipulate that you’d done so? You could take the night off, catch a movie, enjoy a glass of wine.

  93. geoffb says:

    #72 a link for those not getting the reference. It’s a Good Life.

    “And you’ll note that the people in Peaksville, Ohio, have to smile. They have to think happy thoughts and say happy things because once displeased, the monster can wish them into a cornfield or change them into a grotesque, walking horror. This particular monster can read minds, you see. He knows every thought, he can feel every emotion. Oh yes, I did forget something, didn’t I? I forgot to introduce you to the monster. This is the monster. His name is Anthony Fremont. He’s six years old, with a cute little-boy face and blue, guileless eyes. But when those eyes look at you, you’d better start thinking happy thoughts, because the mind behind them is absolutely in charge. This is the Twilight Zone.”

  94. geoffb says:

    “One participant in negotiations said that the administration’s tactic was to present what one described as a “madman theory of the presidency” in which the President is someone to be feared because he was willing to do anything to get his way. The person said this threat was taken very seriously by his firm. “

    Good cop, bad cop taken to another level.

  95. Pablo says:

    Looks like the client has withdrawn whatever consent they had given.

    Then that wouldn’t be about remembering the rules, would it? Best that he just keep his big fucking mouth shut, lest he tarnish your Messiah, eh meya?

  96. router says:

    I’m so curious to hear what these actually were. Did they expect a more softball approach? Or maybe more like a car dealer?

    yea tough choice: constitutional scholar or street thug? alex thug for 20

  97. geoffb says:

    “I’m so curious to hear what these actually were. Did they expect a more softball approach? Or maybe more like a car dealer?”

    More like a mob boss. See link in #47 & #48.

  98. bh says:

    I think we’re starting to see phase three of the response. Thanks, meya!

    1. You don’t know what you’re talking about. This is financially and legally complicated. Hicks like you can’t even understand it. (Crab People, thor)

    2. It never happened. (official administration stance)

    3. What’s the big deal? This is perfectly normal. (meya)

    4. It was limited to this one guy who will now fall on his sword. (who knows, Gibbs?)

  99. RTO Trainer says:

    Ric;

    Upon attaining Colonel (or Captain in the Navy) officers might only serve 12 more years? GEN Casey would have been put out in 2002. GEN Petraeus in 2005.

  100. Randall Parker the Parapundit weighed in a couple of days ago, here.

  101. meya says:

    “Then that wouldn’t be about remembering the rules, would it?”

    That would be if they had given consent.

    “Best that he just keep his big fucking mouth shut, lest he tarnish your Messiah, eh meya?”

    Hey I don’t make the rules, but I do think it’s his client’s decision whether this is shared, not Lauria’s. I do hope some more people share, not just anonymous sources to anonymous blogs.

  102. bh says:

    It isn’t all anonymous.

    There was this:

    As we all appreciate, laws are the foundation of our economy and society. Despite recent travails, our country remains the economic envy of the world and the United States remains a vital engine of global growth. The rule of law made it that way. We urge that people remember this and not succumb to unproductive and unwarranted finger pointing.

    Hmmm, I suppose it doesn’t make you wonder what they’re talking about, pre-filing, when they make an open plea to follow the law? Nothing out of the ordinary?

    This doesn’t seem anonymous either:

    Last but not least, the President screaming that the hedge funds are looking for an unjustified taxpayer-funded bailout is the big lie writ large. Find me a hedge fund that has been bailed out. Find me a hedge fund, even a failed one, that has asked for one. In fact, it was only because hedge funds have not taken government funds that they could stand up to this bullying. The TARP recipients had no choice but to go along. The hedge funds were singled out only because they are unpopular, not because they behaved any differently from any other ethical manager of other people’s money. The President’s comments here are backwards and libelous. Yet, somehow I don’t think the hedge funds will be following ACORN’s lead and trucking in a bunch of paid professional protestors soon. Hedge funds really need a community organizer.

    Hey, he has his name attached and everything.

    It’s all been linked and discussed here, meya.

    SBP is right, you are a liar. But, dumb, as well, because you can’t craft the proper lies for your intended audience.

  103. SBP says:

    he ABA model rule on this covers ‘information relating to the representation of a client’ which this certainly is.

    Liar.

  104. SBP says:

    I think we’re starting to see phase three of the response.

    bh, when SFAG gets to this stage the only appropriate way to engage with her is to simply call her out for the liar she is.

    Attempting to debate the lying liebot will not work, because you are bound by rules of logic, truth, and intellectual honesty, while she is under no such handicap.

    She is a liar. Everything she posts is a lie, direct or by omission.

    She is a classic fascist. Anything, and I mean anything can be justified if it seems to further her raw lust for power.

    Fortunately, she’s simply not very bright. I mean, I’ve known freshmen who were better at bullshitting than she is (no offense to any freshmen in the viewing audience).

  105. Pablo says:

    It isn’t all anonymous.

    There was this:

    Which, IIRC, is Lauria, his client being the Non-TARP lenders.

  106. Mr. Pink says:

    Also since we are just the “wingnuts” and this will get no play in the MSM and have no influence on Obama’s poll numbers, why is Meya here? WTF go over to Kos and talk to your buddies.

  107. Mr. Pink says:

    Meya in two days: “Look at O!s sexy poll numbers who cares about any of this other than you wingnuts.”

  108. bh says:

    Yeah, SBP, you’re right. I blame the Jesuits, they put this whole “good faith argumentation” meme into me when I was young and impressionable.

  109. SBP says:

    Yes, Mr. Pink. Interesting, isn’t it?

    It like the way that they spend all that time on Sarah Palin, when we all know that the ignorant icebilly has gone back to her trailer, never again to trouble the Council of the Sophisticated and Nuanced.

  110. router says:

    but I do think it’s his client’s decision whether this is shared, not Lauria’s.

    and you know for certain lauria doesn’t have his client’s permission?

  111. gus says:

    Can anyone tell me where in the CONSTITUTION the Executive Branch can negotiate with Chrysler’s creditors?? Your creditors?? Banks and Hedge funds?? I don’t see it anywhere. Is there a secret place where Opie gets to make private financial decisions even though he couldn’t even buy a house with corrupt help??
    Anyone?
    Beuhler??

  112. router says:

    thanks meya. i understand the left now: half are loser self indulgent agonizers and the other half are thugs

  113. router says:

    Can anyone tell me where in the CONSTITUTION

    be quiet gun clinger: WE HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL PROFESSOR as president or il duce take your pick.

  114. Mr. Pink says:

    Clinton violated alot of our laws by trying to get laid and then covering it up, this shit is just an entirely new level of douchebag. The left wing response is the exact same however, confuse the issue, lie about the severity, and then point to poll numbers.

  115. router says:

    @116

    works too if you look at the tranzis and islam. like a good cop/bad cop thing

  116. router says:

    and then point to poll numbers.

    manufacturing consent i hear is a book or a playbook

  117. gus says:

    Bh, Obama WANTS people to ask for TARP money or any FEDERAL MONEY.
    Then he owns them.
    I’ve never been disgusted by someone more than I detest Obama. He is a piece of shit. Always was, always will be.

  118. gus says:

    Router, I’m scared that Opie is having my IP investigated. But one point before I go into witness protection. I don’t believe Opie was a Professor, I believe he was a “teacher”. Am I wrong? I mean just because the lie is told alot doesn’t make it true. Or does it?

  119. Joe says:

    Beggars can’t be choosers.

    Obama will make them earn 14 billion the hard way.

  120. Mr. Pink says:

    124
    Yeah I know I can’t wait to hand a bum a cool 200 hundred so he can buy a 40oz.

  121. bh says:

    Gus, yeah, I was pointing that out to Crab People, when Jeff was on this story a week ago. If Peter (gov, Tarp) is putting money into your right pocket, you can give money to Paul (UAW, 50% trim) out of your right. Fungible, is the word, I believe.

    Also, as I pointed out then, don’t think that the moves to register hedge and VC funds with the SEC is unrelated. Unregulated capital has been identified as a problem.

  122. router says:

    Am I wrong?

    dude narrative

  123. gus says:

    “Senior Lecturer” almost a Professor. Kind of like “almost born in the U.S.A.”

  124. Dash Rendar says:

    I’m pumped for the shitty little fiat eco boxes that no one will buy.

  125. geoffb says:

    Is there a secret place where Opie gets to make private financial decisions

    He has the power of “I won” and the will to do anything necessary to back up his wishes. That doesn’t mean it’s right, legal or constitutional. But he has the biggest stick on the planet and can wreak havoc for quite a while unchecked by anyone.

    Welcome to Chicago, just not sure what era yet, 1920s?

  126. bh says:

    Wildly off-topic, but I think I have a brain lesion. Commas are going haywire and I’m repeating words in the same sentence or in the very next.

    If I don’t post tomorrow, I might be stroking out.

  127. Dash Rendar says:

    Unregulated capital is liable to spontaneously capitalize things, sans gubmint.

  128. gus says:

    All of you are scaring tonight. Does this mean Opie is “above the law” like Geithner and half of the other peeps Opie picked?? I liked it better when our Dem Presidents limited themselves to fat Jewish interns and cigars in twats, and lying under oath stuff. Opie is a bad man.

  129. Topsecretk9 says:

    — Which, that’s hardly a bad strategy when you can count on an obsequious press not only to guard your flank, but to act as your forward attack dogs, as well.

    I seem to recall NBC’s David Gregory throwing a temper tantrum over Cheney’s shooting accident and today that Proxy press, NBC, reported the very important news that Obama ordered a hamburger.

  130. Mr. Pink says:

    Yeah I know. If this is a precursor to what is going to happen I really would have put a Hillary08 bumpter sticker on my car and been serious.

  131. SBP says:

    TSK9: the funny part is that most of them felt the need to censor the fact that he asked for dijon mustard on that burger.

    No word on whether he asked to substitute the iceberg lettuce with arugula.

  132. Mr. Pink says:

    WTF is wrong with dijon mustard? Hell I put the spiciest horseradish I can find on hamburgers.

  133. Dash Rendar says:

    I think the dizzying heights of doucheatude that have been reached could be adequately conveyed via cartoon and shown to children.

  134. urthshu says:

    The only honest comment I’ve recently/ever heard from O is when he said he had no interest in running companies. Its true – he just wants to transfer ownership of whole industries to their respective proletariats.

  135. McGehee says:

    “The government shall not issue money, benefits, or other remuneration to any individual or organization except in exchange for services rendered or as redress for grievances against the government.”

    I think that one would be popular. I myself have proposed a similar amendment from time to time, though I don’t know whether I ever circulated the idea publicly.

    I’ve just forwarded your version to my congressman — one of the, well, least bad ones — and urged him to introduce it.

    I think it could be a central plank in the Outlaw Party platform for 2010.

  136. Mr. Pink says:

    Well also if you think about it “running” usually refers to controlling, “ruining” or “looting” is probably more along what he was thinking.

  137. cynn says:

    holy shit; no wonder I have nothing to say so you blubbering rightists. Wow.

  138. SBP says:

    Nothing’s wrong with it, Mr. Pink. I like it myself.

    They didn’t report it because they thought rubes might make fun of Teleprompter Jesus for asking for it (like Kerry requesting Swiss cheese on his Philly cheesesteak). Protecting Teleprompter Jesus is the new Prime Directive.

  139. SBP says:

    no wonder I have nothing to say so you blubbering rightists.

    Oh, if only that were true.

  140. router says:

    “The federal government shall eliminate all taxes under its jurisdiction on jan. 01, 20-. Any new federal taxes shall require the approval of 3/4th’s of the house of reps, senate and states

  141. bh says:

    Cynn, please, enlighten us.

    You seem wildly intelligent.

  142. gus says:

    Obama hasn’t so much as run a Lemonade stand, yet it appears millions have drank his Kool-Aid. Opie is like a Rorschach test. Millions of idiots saw what they wanted to see and ignored what they wanted to ignore.
    Opie can only gain power through election. He never worked his way up any ladder and he has never engage in any Capitalist or Productive enterprise in his life. (Buying Pot and Cocaine is the closest he’s come).
    This man is an utter fraud and loser. And that’s hard for morons to swallow.

  143. bh says:

    And please tell me that Cynn itself is very clever. Like Psylicon Psyns as the name of a techno label.

  144. gus says:

    Cynn, tell us what you like about Saint Chocolate Jesus of Chicago!!!
    Is it his “glistening pec’s” or are you just another fucking imbecile!!

    Who/what is “Fucking imbecile” for $1000.00 Alex?

  145. Mr. Pink says:

    143
    Uh I have been kinda staying away from alot of blogs lately but are you serious they actually were saying “let us not include the dijon mustard cause it will make him look bad.”?

  146. gus says:

    Cynn? Why the double n?? Is it Cynnbad? Or Cynncynati? Or were your parents/parent public school drop-outs?
    Holy shit, I need to know!!!

  147. gus says:

    Meya, do you hear voices in your head? Get help. Even if you are one of the 350 million Americans who live without health care, we’ll pay your bills.

  148. cynn says:

    Check out all the naughty Obama shit!! Convince me I shouldn’t have voted for the evil octaroon, and I’ll climb into your trailer and vote for your sloppy seconds.

  149. bh says:

    On my right shoulder is an angel. She says, “Tell meya that you from this world and negative word of these negotiations has spread across the community.”

    On the left shoulder is a demon. He says, “Call her a lying liebot, we’ve been through this drill before.”

    What’s an agnostic to do?

  150. SBP says:

    Mr. Pink: Over 450 stories about Blow and Joe’s trip to the burger joint on Google News right now. As far as I can tell, only this one mentions the dijon mustard. Speaking of which, who decided that it was a good idea for both the President and the VP to not only wander around in public together, but eat food prepared by the same cook?

    meya: STFU, liebot. I’m not going to “debate” you, so you needn’t bother — unless, of course, you enjoy public ridicule. I understand some people are into that sort of thing.

  151. SDN says:

    What Glenn forgets is that yes, you can take O! to court…. until he reinvokes the doctrine of sovereign immunity. Meanwhile, your wife and kids are being followed by ACORN mobs, three former female employees file harassment charges with EEOC, three former minority employees file discrimination charges with EEOC, you and all your friends, family, church, etc. have their taxes audited (state and federal; there’s lots of unionized Demorat bureaucrats even in states with Republican governors), etc., ad nauseam, ad infinitum, ad infinitum nauseam.

  152. gus says:

    Cynn, I believe that both you and your Mama ARE in fact my sloppy seconds.
    Now tell me about Opie and his qualifications. Or are you too stupid?

  153. gus says:

    Libtards lie because it’s all they’ve got. Well they’ve got Govt.jobs and entitlements, but that doesn’t substitute for intelligence.

  154. SBP says:

    Hush, cynn. We don’t want to “convince” you of anything.

    Your Plastic Presentdent’s performance will take care of that soon enough.

    How are those smokes tasting? Expensive, I’ll bet. Smoke in good health, and know that with every puff you’re putting money in the pocket of some UAW guy who’s been pulling in $100K/year for a couple of decades for sitting on his ass in the “job bank”.

    Have you seen any of those big gummint checks you expected Teleprompter Jesus to be sending you? Simply an oversight, I’m sure. He’ll get around to you sooner or later.

  155. Jeffersonian says:

    I think it’s important to remember PJ O’Rourke’s axiom that to have a successful society, you have to make sure that the people with all the money and the people with all the guns aren’t the same people. That part has broken down, I think.

  156. The Monster says:

    I don’t like this kind of term limits:

    XIV.4: No person who has served twelve years in any and all Offices specified by this Constitution, together with such subsidiary Offices as may be filled by appointment with the advice and consent of the Senate, may again be elected or appointed to any such Office, and such persons may not be elected or appointed to any Office, if at the end of the term of that Office they would have served more than twelve years, except Judges holding office during good behavior.

    The problem with limiting people to a certain number of years of service in the US government is that we trade an entrenched incumbent for a lame duck. Look at how GWB changed in his second term. Since he wasn’t going to ever run for anything for the rest of his life, he didn’t have to care whether things like TARP would turn out to be really bad ideas. What we need instead is a program of getting elected officials out of government and back into the real world. The Articles of Confederation included a provision that no delegate to Congress could serve for more than three of any consecutive six years. I’d like to return to that sort of common sense limitation.

    I call it the Grover Cleveland Amendment, and it simply says that a person who takes the office of President, Senator, or Representative with at least a year remaining on the term is ineligible to serve in the next term of the same office. The astute reader will realize that this calls for the complete turnover of the entire House (save for the handful of people who have won special elections and are seated with less than a year remaining on their term) every single Congress. That is by design. The House is supposed to turn over frequently. There is no need for continuity from session to session; almost all of the newly-elected Representatives will have some experience as state legislators, and some will have been in the House and returning after their enforced 2-year vacation.

    If you’ve heard any of the things George McGovern has said since he left government and had to make a profit in his business, you realize how important it is that we be able to elect people who have served in Congress, then left for the private sector.

  157. B Moe says:

    No no. I mean, of the hardball negotiations. Not the comments we’ve all heard.

    It’s not hardball negotiations, meya. It is blatant theft and confiscation by the Executive Branch. The President of the United States is trying to turn the notion of secured/unsecured debt on its ear. He is basically pissing away the whole notion of legally binding contracts and loans.

    It is that silly assumption we have that words on legal documents actually mean something.

  158. geoffb says:

    “Speaking of which, who decided that it was a good idea for both the President and the VP to not only wander around in public together, but eat food prepared by the same cook?”

    Nancy. If you add Nancy and Bobbie Byrd to the entourage then it would be Hillary’s dream tour.

  159. Jeffersonian says:

    Sounds like Lauria finally remembered the rules about keeping client information confidential.

    PWP isn’t exactly leaping to its feet to deny they were threatened by Chairman Obamao’s goons, Meya. How do you know that Lauria hasn’t been cleared to disclose some of the events surrounding PWP’s reversal?

  160. Mr. Pink says:

    Bmoe who cares look at his sweet poll numbers.

  161. SBP says:

    Maybe SFAG should offer to pay the government 17 cents on the dollar for her student loans.

    It’s only “fair” right?

  162. B Moe says:

    The problem with limiting people to a certain number of years of service in the US government is that we trade an entrenched incumbent for a lame duck.

    I don’t see that as a problem. A lame duck is much less likely to spew pork trying to buy votes than the perpetual campaigner. I think Bush let TARP go through because he was tired of fighting Congress, and just said fuck it I’ll hold the head of this goat so Obama can get a running start at it.

  163. Mr. Pink says:

    I love a lame duck. I love any politician that doesn’t vote my freedoms or my money away for BS. Anytime I hear that a politician is getting alot of things done I cringe.

  164. Jeffersonian says:

    No no. I mean, of the hardball negotiations. Not the comments we’ve all heard.

    When one “negotiator” threatens to use the power of the State to compel your acquiesence to his terms, it’s not longer a negotiation, but dictation.

  165. urthshu says:

    156 – it was Pelosi who thought that up

  166. Pablo says:

    Someone has negotiation confused with extortion.

  167. Mr. Pink says:

    BTW I do not think getting dijon mustard on a sandwhich makes one a pussy. IMHO

  168. Topsecretk9 says:

    Sounds like Lauria finally remembered the rules about keeping client information confidential.

    What an idiotic thing to think. Mafioso Obamabots threatening his clients is not privileged or confidential, moron.

  169. bh says:

    Meya does serve a purpose. She constantly provides salience for Jeff’s interpretive thrust.

    “Hardball negotiations”? It was one thing, now it’s a different thing. A no longer equals A. A now equals B. Presto. Nifty trick.

  170. cynn says:

    What, precisely, is given to the automobile unions? And what, precisely, is stolen from the gamblinaire classes who make OK on their losses?

  171. Steve says:

    The attorney-client privilege covers confidential communications, duh, between an attorney and his client. No confidentiality privilege attaches to threats made by outside thugs. The thugs aren’t clients.

  172. bh says:

    The question remains. Is meya so dumb that she doesn’t recognize this and it’s all lazy thinking. Or, she misreads her audience and thinks we’re this dumb. Equally ineffective.

    But, I admit, I’m curious. Is meya more of a liar or more of an idiot? I keep shifting my position.

  173. bh says:

    Cynn’s just dumb, that’s an easy one.

  174. Mr. Pink says:

    Cynn I am a moron when it comes to financial matters but maybe you should start by explaining how it is now a big deal for a sitting President to threaten a private company. IMHO

  175. Mr. Pink says:

    Not a big deal I mean.

  176. Matt says:

    meya, your attempt to distract on the basis of atty client privilege is pathetic. if I was jeff, I’d ban you. You contribute nothing except distraction.

  177. Pablo says:

    What, precisely, is given to the automobile unions?

    Under the deal, 55% of Chrysler.

    And what, precisely, is stolen from the gamblinaire classes who make OK on their losses?

    Can you translate that into English for me?

  178. Jeffersonian says:

    What, precisely, is given to the automobile unions? And what, precisely, is stolen from the gamblinaire classes who make OK on their losses?

    Equity, on both accounts. The UAW’s credit is unsecured, the hedge funds’ are, yet the UAW gets the lion’s share of the debt for equity conversion.

  179. Jeffersonian says:

    That should be “hedge funds’ is”

  180. RTO Trainer says:

    What, precisely, is given to the automobile unions? And what, precisely, is stolen from the gamblinaire classes who make OK on their losses?

    A share of the ownership of the company well out of proportion to the stake each holds in the company at present. The UAW somewhat more, and the shareholders significantly less. But the big theft is the share that governemt is claimiong for itself. It’s corruption all the way around and completely unconstitutional in several respects.

  181. B Moe says:

    Let’s say you loaned someone a couple of thousand bucks to buy a car, cynn, and you were holding the title. They got in a wreck and hired a mechanic to fix and repaint it for a couple of hundred bucks. Then they got lost their job before they paid off you or the mechanics, and a judge took the car from you and gave it to the mechanics. Would you be okay with that?

  182. bh says:

    This is a bit like judging a Turing test when all the human contestants had just suffered a serious concussion.

    Here goes: cynn is a bot and meya is a human. With a serious concussion.

  183. gus says:

    Jeffersonian, by merely calling yourself Jeffersonian, you have credibility with me. BUT….Like everything else, when LIBTARDS get the SCAM IDEA in their head, they’ll use TOM JEFFERSON as something he was not. Libtards use terms that IMPLY Patriotism despite their NON-PATRIOTIC stances. James Madison was/is one of the GREATEST AMERICANS EVER.
    Madison Wisconsin, is a Marxist/Socialist/Naive/Deluded enclave of gubmint dependent losers and goofy freaks. How Inappropriate.
    Jim Madison was not a Marxist.

  184. cynn says:

    No, the bottom line is these guys got soaked becuase they got stuck on the wrong end of a bet. Just like how I lost my dough. Thanks, jeffersonian, for an honest answer to a simple question.

  185. Jeffersonian says:

    I’d concur with your assessment of Madison…truly one of America’s great political minds. In the end, however, Jefferson’s (and the anti-federalists’) critique held more water than Madison’s argument. Madison’s magnificently-crafted document could not withstand the ambitions of the statists, and now we live with little more than the patina of a constitution.

  186. I do wonder what these businessmen are thinking after voting for Obama. Did they really think he’d be remotely business friendly? Not end the tax cuts? Not raise taxes? Not screw over business? Seriously?

  187. bh says:

    cynn, you’re a bot, right? You can tell me, it’ll be our secret.

  188. SBP says:

    No, the bottom line is these guys got soaked becuase they got stuck on the wrong end of a bet.

    No, the bottom line is that you don’t have a clue what you’re yammering about.

  189. Jeffersonian says:

    No, the bottom line is these guys got soaked becuase they got stuck on the wrong end of a bet.

    Uh, no. A secured debt is not riskless, but it’s not a “bet.” These senior creditors are entitled to fulfillment of their contracts before a federal bankruptcy judge using neutral principles of law. They are most certainly not required to sit quietly as their legal and legitimate claims are abrogated by a lawless administration intent on rewarding political cronies at their expense.

  190. Larry Summers says:

    No, the bottom line is these guys got soaked becuase they got stuck on the wrong end of a bet. Just like how I lost my dough.

    And here I was worried I might have over-simplified my example to the point of appearing condescending or patronizing.

  191. gus says:

    Cynn. You completely and factually incorrect. Those FIRST IN LINE to be paid in a BANKRUPTCY, became and ARE first in line, BECAUSE OF THE RISK THEY TOOK and because of the BENEFIT THE BANKRUPT ENTITY ENJOYED vis a vis the RISK THE AFOREMENTIONED 1ST IN LINE TOOK……….contractually.
    Those 1st in line GAVE TO THE BANKRUPT ENTITY in specific DETAIL. They gave when the CHIPS WERE DOWN. And they invested and RISKED in the BANKRUPT ENTITY UNDER SPECIFIC RULES AND PREDICATIONS. Otherwise the ENTITY would have been BANKRUPT EARLIER.
    It’s known as SECURED DEBT. I’m first in line, when you PROMISE to take my MONEY in exchange for MY FIRST IN LINE STATUS.

    Even a liberal ass-hat should be able to understand this.
    Obama is a CORRUPT HACK.

  192. B Moe says:

    Dammit.

  193. B Moe says:

    Now look what you have done, cynn, you gone and got gus all excited.

  194. bh says:

    Guys, guys, guys, cynn’s the bot. meya is the human. With a serious concussion.

    I think…

  195. Pablo says:

    Decaf, gus. Look into it.

  196. I think…

    nah, cynn’s been around a while and can occasionally make a coherent point. but most times you can also guess how much Boone’s Farm she’s had as the evening progresses.

    cynn calls me a “stone-cold bitch” in 5… 4… 3…

  197. gus says:

    Not to worry B-Moe, I can get through to dimwits quite easily without getting turgid.
    Here goes.
    The entities that actually have FIRST CAUSE against Chrysler…….are not fair!! Fair is SPREADING THE WEALTH (Remember Joe the Plumber) and FAIR…..trumps (not Donald Trump) legal or constitutional LAW..
    Spreading the WEALTH means PAYING groups that back Opie and his HACKS.
    Next point: Liberals (specifically Opie/Obama) get to choose exactly WHO deserves OPIE’S determination of FAIRNESS. Fairness as defined by LIBTARDS/OPIE trumps the law and CONSTITUTION.

  198. gus says:

    btw. Pablo… I think you are the very coolest poster here.
    Seriously. Despite your suggestion that I need DECAF.
    Pablo, you should have your own blog.

  199. bh says:

    I find this very confusing. I was positive that cynn was the bot. And meya was the human. With a serious concussion.

    If we could see faces as they said these things, it’d help. Damn you Turing, damn your well-thought-out rules!

  200. gus says:

    Bh, Just a gut instinct, but, Meya is the BOT, and Cynn is just stupid.

  201. cynn says:

    What the fuck is a bot. All I know is that you righties don’t get our awesome secret plan.

  202. RTO Trainer says:

    No, the bottom line is these guys got soaked becuase they got stuck on the wrong end of a bet.

    Almost.

    They are getting soaked worse than they would have because of government interference. The normal rules would pay them back a smaller loss.

    But that’s why they are not to be scorned. They took the risk. The put up the money knowing that they might not get it all back. They also thought, though, that they knew the rules only to have someone rewrite them at the end of the game.

    One very possible outcome is that it’s going to be harder for businesses to find people who are willing to accept what is now even greater risk–greater risk wholly created by the government. That means that business that might have survived, will not.

    Stimulus!

  203. bh says:

    My fear is that meya is a next generation bot, she eats food, excretes lies.

    Looks like us.

  204. RTO Trainer says:

    All I know is that you righties don’t get our awesome secret plan.

    We get it. We just don’t like it.

  205. My fear is that meya is a next generation bot, she eats food, excretes lies.

    Looks like us.

    a lielon?

  206. B Moe says:

    Comment by gus on 5/5 @ 10:14 pm #

    Bh, Just a gut instinct, but, Meya is the BOT, and Cynn is just stupid.

    Comment by cynn on 5/5 @ 10:14 pm #

    What the fuck is a bot.

    You just can’t make this shit up.

  207. cynn says:

    Shit, it’s worse than I thought. Do you know a good estate lawyer?

  208. RTO Trainer says:

    Do you know a good estate lawyer?

    If the administration gets involved, it won’t matter.

  209. bh says:

    Heh, Maggie. That’s 3rd generation, though. I think we’re still in SBP’s 2nd generation, the simple liebot.

  210. bh says:

    Jeff’s updated the main post above.

    Okay, I’m going to give it a try. Here’s my try at a decent 2nd generation liebot:

    The problem with today’s economy is that too much of it is high cap and investment based. We’d find greater growth with a more entrepreneurial economy. That’s where the growth is now. That’s where the jobs are now. And that’s why Obama has promised not to raise taxes on those below $250k a year.

    This is pro-growth guys. Sustainable and local growth.

  211. geoffb says:

    “All I know is that you righties don’t get our awesome secret plan.”

    Not only as RTO said do we “get it” we know that Obama is running a different one than you think he is. His own plan, not yours. Surprise.

  212. bh says:

    Surprise! Well, not really. Via Glenn.

  213. Jeff G. says:

    Obama will do it better. Because now HOPE and CHANGE is involved.

    And that can fix anything.

  214. meya says:

    “meya: STFU, liebot. I’m not going to “debate” you, so you needn’t bother — unless, of course, you enjoy public ridicule.”

    Fine. Lets not debate rule 1.6. Something tells me you’ll still give us ridicule though.

    “It’s not hardball negotiations, meya.”

    “Maybe SFAG should offer to pay the government 17 cents on the dollar for her student loans.

    It’s only “fair” right?”

    I’d love to call my lender up and pay that. But it’s not the government. Even folks who get the federal Stafford loans get them via a subsidized private lender. Did you not know that?

    I’m referring to this: “saying the administration was bent on forcing their hands using hardball tactics and threats. ”

    “No confidentiality privilege attaches”

    Confidentiality and privilege are different things.

  215. SBP says:

    Lets not debate rule 1.6.

    You’re not “debating” anything.

    You are simply lying. Repeatedly and poorly.

  216. SBP says:

    SFAG either doesn’t realize that we’re wise to her game or, more likely, is simply too stupid to alter it.

  217. bh says:

    I almost punned Al Gore rhythm with algorithm.

  218. bh says:

    So, I guess that makes me the bot. Apparently meya broke my shit by entering random text strings into every input.

  219. Al Gore rhythm

    does such a thing exist?

  220. JD says:

    Fuckity fuck fuck fucking fuckers fuck fuck fuckity fuck

  221. Mark A. Flacy says:

    RTO@103

    Flag rank is O-7 and above.

  222. geoffb says:

    #226 answers #225 I think.

  223. RTO@103

    Flag rank is O-7 and above.

    oh, he’s gonna get cranky about goofing that up. heh.

  224. Boeing says:

    Obama becomes Hugo Chavez.
    No taxpayer was available for comment, on fearing for their life.

  225. psycho... says:

    Obama becomes Hugo Chavez.

    If that was all he wanted, he’d be mayor of Chicago.

    That was the plan. Then someone had another one.

    Some famous Nazi, perhaps.

  226. geoffb says:

    That was the plan. Then someone had another one.

    Some famous Nazi, perhaps.

    I fear in the end the US will have been destroyed because someone was trying to find the question to “42”.

  227. Boeing says:

    Some famous Nazi,perhaps.

    It’s a close fit, but the Nazi guy had yearnings to kill foreigners, not just the locals.
    I think maybe Robert Mugabe is probably the closest fit…so far.

  228. B Moe says:

    Chrysler Won’t Pay Back Government Money Loaned So Far.

    So now we are going to have to fight to keep the word “loan”?

    Fuckity fuck fuck fucking fuckers fuck fuck fuckity fuck

    Careful, JD. If Chicago style is spreading you are on thin ice.

    Two links because the comment threads are amazing.

  229. Rusty says:

    Hi maya. remember when I called you a disigenuous c*nt? I was being kind. I thought you had potential. I was mistaken.

  230. Carin says:

    btw. Pablo… I think you are the very coolest poster here.
    Seriously. Despite your suggestion that I need DECAF.
    Pablo, you should have your own blog.

    Back off, gus. Pablo is MINE.

  231. Think any of those “workers” used any of their paychecks to maybe…like…invest in their own retirement? Why is it that when I hear UAW these days it sounds like Jimmy Hoffa’s Teamsters? I know I’m 300 comments down, but what company in their right mind would even think of buying a piece of Leyland Chrysler. It’s worthless. And Jeep could have been worth something, at the very least.

  232. […] example of brownshirt fascism. Not that they are yet completely out of consideration… h/t Jeff Goldstein. Also linked as a PW update, this from Finemrspice (a financial blogger) who details a […]

  233. Pablo says:

    Well, thanks all. It’s too bad we’re all fucking doomed.

  234. Matt says:

    *Confidentiality and privilege are different things.*

    You are incredibly stupid. Like mind numbingly stupid, I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about so I make stuff up, even when I know people know more than I do. Confidentiality applies to conversations between lawyer and client. And if I’m that company, I WANT the lawyer to say it, take the heat, then I can throw the lawyer under the bus if need be (while giving him a nice big check in the process for his services). I want people to know I’ve been threatened and the lawyer can say it.

    Mind numbingly willfully stupid is no way to go through life.

  235. […] It isn’t stealing if it’s done for the common good. […]

  236. Weds morning links…

    Need one of these steps? One sale now.
    To me, Global Warming was the Swine Flu of the Decade. Gullible America
    "Cash for clunkers" screws the poor. Not just the poor: lots of folks out there who would never spend money on something tha…

  237. LTC John says:

    Wh”en you buy words, you had better know what you are buying.”

    Hasn’ that been Jeff’s point for rather a long time now?

  238. […] Chrysler won’t repay its federal bailout loans and the company’s private creditors are outraged by the Obama administration’s hardball tactics.  And — when it rains, it pours — Rep. Henry Waxman is reportedly ready to “fast track” […]

  239. Tim Mcnabb says:

    I hope all these rich Democrats remember who is screwing them.

  240. […] a great clip of Dom Deluise and Johnny Carson. ………………….. Jeff Goldstein on Chrysler. New update to this saga….Chrysler does not have the US Taxpayer on it’s list of […]

  241. Rob Crawford says:

    I hope all these rich Democrats remember who is screwing them.

    They do. Sadly, many of them are enjoying it.

  242. Mark Buehner says:

    The punchline is that Obama is asking investors to recapitalize GM. HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAA. Sure, i’m there.

  243. RTO Trainer says:

    RTO@103

    Flag rank is O-7 and above.

    After doing some checking that appears to be true for the Navy, but a Flag Officer is any officer that is authorized a flag to dentoe where their command is located. Not all O-6s get flags, but those that command Brigades do and all Army brigades are commanded by Colonels.

    The intent is O-7 and up-then the term to use is General Officers.

    And even then, GEN Casey would have been forced out in 2006 and GEN Petraeus would be gone this year.

  244. happyfeet says:

    The punchline is that Obama is asking investors to recapitalize GM.

    But also Baracky and his greasey UAW thug pals are also asking peoples to buy GM cars. To drive.

  245. Sdferr says:

    Governments purchase whole fleets of cars and trucks. We’ll be seeing Ford standing up for the principle that these purchases all ought to go to GM in the future, for the fairness. Heh.

  246. alppuccino says:

    I can’t wait to see those fat-assed government workers squeezing into their singe-seaters.

  247. Ric Locke says:

    The intent is O-7 and up-then the term to use is General Officers.

    And even then, GEN Casey would have been forced out in 2006 and GEN Petraeus would be gone this year.

    Yeah, and I’d be sorry to lose them — but the entire “we have to keep the EXPERIENCED people” argument leaves me cold. Yah, we lose some good ones. We also boot out a host of time-servers and empire-builders, and to me the game’s worth the candle.

    “Fair” is either a technical term in baseball or a check-box on an evaluation form (the meaning of the latter is “we haven’t found an excuse to can this guy yet”). Any law is going to have “unfair” effects on somebody. The goal is to formulate laws that achieve their desired effect.

    In a way, this ties in with my argument with Patterico. What the Founders understood by the word “jury” is quite different from the untrained judicial panels we have today. One of the powers of a jury, as originally understood, is nullification — the power to declare that the defendant hasn’t done anything wrong, despite what the law says. Twelve people lacking that power aren’t a jury, as the Founders understood that term.

    Regards,
    Ric

  248. Carin says:

    I hope all these rich Democrats remember who is screwing them.

    They do. Sadly, many of them are enjoying it.

    I dunno. My cousin was one of those rich Democrats. I would be shocked if he didn’t come to see voting for Obama as a huge mistake. Either people voted for him because they were down with redistribution, etc, or they were misled. Among the misled group, I think only a small minority are ready to admit that mistake. But, I believe the number will grow.

  249. RTO Trainer says:

    Ric–it looks to me that this would, with regard to career officers, create a cottage industry around finding ways to keep officers at O-5 and O-6 much longer before advancing them to where the clock begins to run. The clock punchers would just congregate at a lower grade.

    I don’t see it as losing experience, but that 12 years is just too short for Generalship.

    In my opinion, when talking about the military, the answer is to reduce the number of General Officer billets, increasing competition–so long as what’s emphasized is performance. Then let the normal retirement rules, plus Up or Out, handle it. BG HR McMaster’s carreer then becomes more the norm than the rapid rise of a GEN David Petraeus, but it can still happen without penalizing the meteoric for being successful.

    I’d suggest the same for the E-9 grade.

    Or if you just have to have a limit on GOs than stair step it on the Up or Out line: BG– 5 years to make MG, MG– 5 years to make LG, LG– 4 years to make GEN, GEN out after 6 years. Using GEN Petraeus as an example; 2 years as BG, 3 as MG, 3 as LG 2 so far as GEN. He could choose to stay for up to 4 more years and only “missed out” on 7 years service had he just not been promoted so quickly.

    FWIW, I’ve never heard of a Prosecutor that was in favor of jury nullification.

  250. Texan99 says:

    To my knowledge, Lauria hasn’t said that the threats were made directly to him. My impression is that he was quoting a threat his client received and relayed to him. He would therefore need client authority to publicize the threat. He may have had that authority at first (implicit or explicit), but then Perella Weinberg caved under the pressure and withdrew its permission for him to speak about it any further.

    One thing I’m pretty sure of is that he didn’t make the threats up. Lauria is not a liar. It’s a shame he’s been put in the position of not being able to respond further to allegations that he’s lying.

    If this episode doesn’t teach us how dangerous it is to give a government too much power and discretion, I don’t know what will. This isn’t the first government that figured out how convenient it would be to be able to confiscate property without due process. There’s a reason for the Constitution.

  251. mojo says:

    Chrysler Won’t Pay Back Government Money Loaned So Far.

    Oh reeeeeally…

    Well, I guess we’ll just have to take it out of your ass then, huh bubela?
    Tell me – do you happen to own any racehorses?…

  252. Jeff G. says:

    If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to see you steal it, does it make a profit?

  253. geoffb says:

    I hope all these rich Democrats remember who is screwing them.

    Remember the speech/fundraiser in the Bay area, the one famous for the “clinging to their guns and bibles” quote that wasn’t supposed to get out?

    He also was telling the multi-multi millionaires assembled that they wouldn’t like what he was going to do but to hang in there as all would be well in good time. This is what that was about. It’s the hang in there time for the ultra wealthy Left. The question is will they?

  254. […] discussions of our descent into Banana Republic thuggery by Michael Barone , Roger Kimball and Jeff Goldstein. […]

  255. Ric Locke says:

    RTO —

    I dig what you’re trying to say, and in some ways I agree.

    The problem is, we’re discussing a (hypothetical) Constitutional amendment. You and I live in Texas, whose Constitution is a mess by malice aforethought of its Framers — here, many things that in most any other polity would be simple laws are required to be Constitutional amendments, and the result is long, convoluted, and sometimes contradictory on purpose.

    The U.S. Constitution is different. It’s supposed to lay out general principles and guidelines, not descend into what might be considered everyday law. I was therefore searching for something general and concise. I wouldn’t have included the clause about the military if it weren’t for the fact that officers’ commissions require “advice and consent”, and thus would fall under the definition given.

    You haven’t even addressed the fact that, because the twelve years is cumulative for all offices, retired military officers would in general be barred from political office, which is another weakness — I’m not only tossing Petraeus out, I’m disqualifying Eisenhower. I still think it’s worth it, even if some meteoric careers get cut short. Clear general principles are better than nitpicky details.

    It might better meet your objections to simply exempt the military entirely.

    Regards,
    Ric

  256. RTO Trainer says:

    Or remove advice and consent on General Officers. Congress isn’t really qualified to judge anyway. Re; tendencies toward the ticket-punchers and the well connected.

  257. McGehee says:

    Congress isn’t really qualified to judge anyway. Re; tendencies toward the ticket-punchers and the well connected.

    I disagree — they most certainly can judge. The problem is where their judgment takes them.

  258. ziske68 says:

    CALVINBALL!!!!!

  259. Clayton Williams says:

    I hope all these rich Democrats remember who is screwing them.

    They do. Sadly, many of them are enjoying it.

    Damned hypocrites.

  260. TaiChiWawa says:

    If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to see you steal it, does it make a profit?

    I believe it wood.

  261. […] May 6, 2009 in Who Killed John Galt | Tags: Chrysler, fascism, Obama Stinks to high heaven regardless of what you call it.  Following Mad Barack Beyond the Capitol Dome’s Chrysler creditor shakedown brings this seeming corroboration, via Protein Wisdom: […]

  262. SDN says:

    The problem, meya, is that they also have a requirement to disclose criminal behavior. Extortion and conspiracy to commit same are criminal behavior.

  263. RTO Trainer says:

    As are unconsitutional takings, and illegal combinations, and tortious interference in contracts.

  264. cynn says:

    Everything is so greasy, nasty, and ugly. Phsyco needs a dollop of Vics VapoRub to get through this morass.

Comments are closed.