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April 27, 2009
Wow.
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Comment by router on 4/27 @ 8:16 pm #
this is hillarious in a clinton way:
?
Comment by happyfeet on 4/27 @ 8:18 pm #
Honestly?
Comment by happyfeet on 4/27 @ 8:18 pm #
i’m not gonna say it but I’m thinking it really really hard
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 8:18 pm #
posted before
Isn’t it fabulous how Obama has reconciled with our enemies and put fear into the hearts of Americans? Does any image illustrate so neatly the wrongheadedness of the Obama administration than Americans scrambling in terror from Air Force One?
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 8:21 pm #
such fun and only 1360 days to go.
Comment by Techie on 4/27 @ 8:24 pm #
Mission Accomplished. They all voted for him, let the chips fall where they may.
Comment by Makewi on 4/27 @ 8:24 pm #
Waterboarding terrorists is wrong, but putting the fear of God into NYers is good. They needed it anyway, freaking heathens.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/27 @ 8:24 pm #
thank you Makewi
Comment by happyfeet on 4/27 @ 8:25 pm #
and Techie too
Comment by Pablo on 4/27 @ 8:25 pm #
Nice job, Professor.
Comment by phreshone on 4/27 @ 8:25 pm #
Taxpayers are scrambling in terror of Barry’s ideology and economic policies.
Comment by Spiny Norman on 4/27 @ 8:29 pm #
Whatever Pentagon and/or White House mid-level flunky who thought this would be a grand idea is probably looking for somewhere to hide…
Of course, now that Booosh is no longer in the WH*, look for the network new anchors (oh, and Jon Stewart, absolutely) to pooh-pooh the whole incident and scold New Yorkers for being so panicky.
*Not that it will stop DKos, DU and the rest of the loony nutroots mob to blame him for it anyway.
Comment by SBP on 4/27 @ 8:30 pm #
And the Amateur Hour continues.
Comment by Sdferr on 4/27 @ 8:31 pm #
I have begun to wonder whether there wasn’t at least someone in the chain of decision on this mission who had a perfectly good idea of what would (and did) likely happen but kept quiet about it, sniggering up his sleeve, so to speak, and thinking of the perfect reminder of the reasoning behind the harsh interrogations of the likes of KSM this flyover would be, not only to the locals in NY who would have the bejeesus scared out of them, but the rest of the nation as well, when, as now, the word gets out.
Comment by Travis on 4/27 @ 8:31 pm #
You know this would be pretty damn funny if it was some tin-pot dictator in some run down third world country. It’s like a Monty Python skit or something.
It loses the funny when you realize this goofball has a guy following him around with the nuclear launch codes.
Comment by Joe on 4/27 @ 8:32 pm #
What the fuck were they thinking?
And Bloomberg is a mendacious douchebag. He either knew about this and okayed it being secret (and then pulled a Pelosi and claimed he did not know); or he was not told by his own people even after the Military and Secret Service told the City and Port Authority. That just means Bloomberg is a big jerkoff who is not really in charge.
Barry apparently was pissed. Well no shit.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 8:33 pm #
and in related news the president bowed to the saudi king in his administrations anti terror effort.
Comment by Techie on 4/27 @ 8:35 pm #
Actually, this would make an excellent installment in those “Want to get away for a while?” airline commercials.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 8:37 pm #
the StrawManO!™ was golfing at at andrews air force base
Comment by SBP on 4/27 @ 8:38 pm #
Expect the media to double up on coverage of the swine flu scare in an effort to knock this off the front page.
Comment by Sdferr on 4/27 @ 8:44 pm #
Andrews, as I remember it from back when, was long, fairly open and pretty flat, as golf courses go. Oh, and dull beyond belief.
Comment by geoffb on 4/27 @ 8:49 pm #
The problem was the FAA was told the information was classified and that it should not alert the press to warn the public. Senator Schumer blamed the FAA saying “Mr. Schumer said the FAA seems to be “directly responsible for the public panic.””
As is well known, Senator Schumer doesn’t think “classified” means anything. At least not if it comes between him and a “photo op” of his own.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 8:50 pm #
the StawManO!™ does a fly over of nyc while discussing ksm? monty python i tell you!
Comment by PCachu on 4/27 @ 8:51 pm #
Amazing, really, how this empty suit and his traveling clown show can come up with such new and original ways to FAIL.
It’s awe-inspiring. And also sad.
Comment by Roland THTG on 4/27 @ 8:51 pm #
Biggest clown car ever.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 8:52 pm #
rev wright i like transparency
Comment by Techie on 4/27 @ 8:53 pm #
Why does a photo-op need to be classified?
None of this makes any sense.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 8:54 pm #
chill folks david frum,brooks thinks O!s the one
Comment by Sdferr on 4/27 @ 8:54 pm #
Andrews. Which, I don’t get. I thought Presidents are automatic members at Burning Tree out at River Rd and the Beltway, an exclusive, immaculate and reputedly fabulous layout and challenging round of golf? Or for that matter, the President can’t find a member to take him to Congressional or Chevy Chase? So what the hell is Baracky doing playing Andrews? Or if he wanted a more plebeian course, truck on down to Langston or U of M.
Comment by meya on 4/27 @ 8:54 pm #
haha good work on those pics perfunction.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 8:56 pm #
b/c to say you want to do what they did is to admit you’ll take political capital from folks who died on 9/11/01
Comment by SBP on 4/27 @ 9:00 pm #
OT, but funny: Fox refuses to give any more free face time to Teleprompter Jesus.
Bets on which network will be the next to follow suit?
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 9:02 pm #
to document
By CHRISTINE SIMMONS – 1 day ago ANDREWS AIR FORCE BASE, Md. (AP) — President Barack Obama took advantage of the summer conditions in Washington on Sunday to play a round of golf for the first time since taking office.
Comment by SBP on 4/27 @ 9:04 pm #
“Now, watch this drive.”
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 9:05 pm #
levin had “whack” sound effects
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 9:10 pm #
dude’s got time on his hands:
?
Comment by Techie on 4/27 @ 9:16 pm #
Does the Messiah have a decent handicap?
Comment by Sdferr on 4/27 @ 9:17 pm #
Don’t think so Techie but that may be what he’s working on, so trying to get it down so that the JFK comparisons aren’t so terribly inapt?
Comment by B Moe on 4/27 @ 9:19 pm #
I wonder if maybe it is easier to keep the cameras away at Andrews? Doesn’t play well to his followers to be seen on the links, golf being a rich man’s game and all.
Comment by dicentra on 4/27 @ 9:21 pm #
Watch for new videos with the 747 replaced by Teh Budget or Socialized Medicine, etc.
My doctor told me today about the electronic medical records requirement. For his little office, the initial outlay for the system is $30-60 large. And what’s more, the gubmint did not specify which kind of electronic records system to use, so he runs the risk of getting the “wrong” one.
Your stimulus dollars at work.
Comment by Sdferr on 4/27 @ 9:21 pm #
Burning Tree (look it up on GoogleEarth) is entirely surrounded by deep forest, he could go there an play (many Presidents have) and no-one would be the wiser. No cameras allowed.
Comment by Republican on Acid on 4/27 @ 9:24 pm #
I have two questions about this event. Where are the photographs taken by the professional photographer and who are they? Just because they say it was a photo op doesn’t necessarily mean it was a photo op.
I also have an observation, what squadron does this F-16 come from that has this bright red/orange tail? Any air force people around here who know?
Comment by blowhard on 4/27 @ 9:25 pm #
If you wrote this scenario into a mockumentary script, it wouldn’t be believable.
So, yeah, wow.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 9:28 pm #
read the news
?
Comment by meya on 4/27 @ 9:28 pm #
“dude’s got time on his hands:”
In DC they call them “working sundays.”
“Just because they say it was a photo op doesn’t necessarily mean it was a photo op.”
They were spreading swine flu to isntall socialized medicine.
Comment by blowhard on 4/27 @ 9:30 pm #
“mission”?
Not exactly the word I’d use. Tomorrow I’m on a mission to get my girlfriend to hold a puppy and say cheese. It’s a dangerous mission. I hope no one is hurt.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 9:31 pm #
yes rev wright makes sense now
Comment by psycho... on 4/27 @ 9:33 pm #
Obama can’t really be blamed for this specific beyond-parody bed-shitting, but he has cultivated the Culture Of Not Thinking About Stuff that made it happen. It’s a theme.
So douche.
Comment by Republican on Acid on 4/27 @ 9:34 pm #
@44
No, I want to see the photo’s they ACTUALLY took during this operation. There should be tonnes of them. Taking photo’s of airplanes in flight is a hard job and they over compensate. Also - I can’t tell - but the chase plane should be a two seater so the guy in the back can take photographs.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 9:38 pm #
f**K you. i’ve citizens photos of this asshole doing something stupid. you want gov’t photos file a foia loser.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 9:40 pm #
you’re “statist on acid”
Comment by Republican on Acid on 4/27 @ 9:40 pm #
Fuck you too. Look, I am not being pro-Obama here. I just want every angle of this raked over the coals. Cappice?
Comment by Republican on Acid on 4/27 @ 9:43 pm #
Fight them at their own game if you will.
PS. I have been reading PW for a very long time. I have just been too busy to comment lately. I am on your side. Ok?
Comment by blowhard on 4/27 @ 9:44 pm #
router, take it easy. I don’t think Rep on Acid is doing anything more than asking where the photos are if this was a photo op.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 9:47 pm #
axs the communist in chief about the fly by not the citizens who witnessed it?
Comment by Jeff G. on 4/27 @ 9:47 pm #
Good to see you, R.O.A.
The real photos are likely being worked on right now. The Obama Administration is going to replace the two planes with Godzilla.
That’ll explain the panic, and the media can do some fluffy giant lizard stories.
WIN WIN!
Comment by ThomasD on 4/27 @ 9:48 pm #
I think RoA just wants to see the evidence that confirms the WH ’story’ of a photo op. That being nice glossies of Air Force One and the F-16s by the Statue of Liberty, etc.
I’d like to see them too. Just to see how those photos were framed in order to measure the intent of the shoot - ie. was this an ad for the Air Force, the Presidency, or the Totus hizself.
Comment by blowhard on 4/27 @ 9:48 pm #
Am I missing something? Some history with Rep on Acid?
Comment by Republican on Acid on 4/27 @ 9:49 pm #
Yes, ask him because if this were to happen during Bush’s reign the OUTRAGE and inquisition on it would never end. Do you see what I am getting at?
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 9:49 pm #
small brains axs Louis Caldera
Comment by Jeff G. on 4/27 @ 9:50 pm #
No, bh. He’s good people.
Real good people, in my opinion.
Comment by SBP on 4/27 @ 9:50 pm #
Obama’s emotional state has been upgraded from “upset” to “furious”.
Comment by ThomasD on 4/27 @ 9:51 pm #
Honestly I kinda laughed when I first heard about it, then I watched some of the video of people running in fear.
I was wrong. This is not funny.
So I can understand how people might be on edge.
Comment by Techie on 4/27 @ 9:51 pm #
I think I missed something here.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 9:52 pm #
no
Comment by Republican on Acid on 4/27 @ 9:52 pm #
Also, my point about the F-16 needing to be a tandem seater is relevant. If it is not a tandem seater then there was not a photographer in that plane. Has anyone noticed any close ups where you could tell?
Comment by blowhard on 4/27 @ 9:53 pm #
Thanks Jeff, until someone releases the pw concordance I’m just relying on SBP most of the time.
Comment by Sdferr on 4/27 @ 9:54 pm #
RoA, that tail art could be a special paint job. After looking over a couple of hundred photos of various F-16’s here, the usual paint scheme seems to be grey, with any color in a narrow band at the top of the tail.
This, 416th FLTS comes close though, and they might be equipped to take photos in a chase.
Comment by SBP on 4/27 @ 9:54 pm #
Shit, don’t pay any attention to what I say.
I think I’ve probably butted heads with everybody here at one time or another.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 9:55 pm #
messiah you f55KIN idiots are lame
Comment by Republican on Acid on 4/27 @ 9:56 pm #
Maybe it’s possible that chase planes are always given that tail color?
Comment by Sdferr on 4/27 @ 9:57 pm #
Here’s a two-seater version (left corner pic) with the red tail 416th FLTS and also second row, second from left.
Comment by Another Bob on 4/27 @ 9:58 pm #
RoA @42: A/C associated with flight test units, like chase and photo a/c, typically have orange tails. Two-seat F16 is used in this role at Edwards AFB that I know of.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 9:59 pm #
StrawManO!™ speaks
Comment by Travis on 4/27 @ 10:00 pm #
Comment by ThomasD on 4/27 @ 9:48 pm #
I think RoA just wants to see the evidence that confirms the WH ’story’ of a photo op. That being nice glossies of Air Force One and the F-16s by the Statue of Liberty, etc.
I wonder if they will release the photos of the screaming crowds as they flee in panic?
Comment by Republican on Acid on 4/27 @ 10:01 pm #
Thanks Sdferr, although Edwards seems like quite a drive for this shoot. The C-25’s (AF1) are based out of Anderson right?
Comment by Another Bob on 4/27 @ 10:04 pm #
@76 - AF flight test has a detachment at Eglin in Florida. Regardless, AF wouldn’t care about a Cali to DC flight for this purpose, it’s training. Some F16 jockey got a few hours of seat time and a some practice at hitting tankers.
Comment by Republican on Acid on 4/27 @ 10:07 pm #
Ah, router has me sussed. I am a mole! WTF? If you don’t want someone to say fuck you to you then don’t say fuck you first. I apologize that we haven’t met and that my questioning of the event makes you so angry, but maybe we can talk this over some day and laugh like silly little girls about it.
I dedicate a large quantity of my free time instigating doubt over Obama in areas of the net and in real life that most people would not have the balls to do.
You are simply not understanding why I am questioning it. I have tried to explain it to you to no avail. Other people get it, you don’t. Simmer down.
Comment by Sdferr on 4/27 @ 10:07 pm #
Andrews AFB for the 747. They’ve F-16s there in the 113th DC ANG, I think.
Pingback by Where Was President Obama Today? : The Sundries Shack on 4/27 @ 10:08 pm #
[...] (via protein wisdom commenter router) [...]
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 10:10 pm #
i believe the citizens not the gov’t. let us know about your foia request?
Comment by DonP on 4/27 @ 10:12 pm #
router, I don’t believe he’s saying he doubts the citizens. He’s saying he doubts the photo op explanation that came from the White House.
Comment by Molon Labe on 4/27 @ 10:12 pm #
O thought the masses would recognize Air Force 1 and pour into the streets genuflecting.
Comment by blowhard on 4/27 @ 10:14 pm #
router, you tore into me awhile back for no reason as well. And I’m also a long-term friend of this blog.
So, take it easy.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 10:14 pm #
stay away from #80 it can’t do time lines
Comment by Jeff G. on 4/27 @ 10:14 pm #
router, what is your problem? ROA has been a long-time commenter here and a friend to this site. If you want to chide somebody, try meya. Far more deserving.
Comment by Phil on 4/27 @ 10:16 pm #
Ok, one of the posters at Little Green Footballs just called me a creationist because I asked Charles if his attempts to label the conservative opposition as “unhinged” because of its associations with people like Alex Jones were rather strange given I’ve never heard of this Alex Jones character and I read conservative blogs every day.
Methinks this whole anti-creationist brigade has turned the regulars there a little crazy. I don’t think I’ll be going back. Charles is turning into not some liberal parody like Andrew Sullivan, but rather some indescribable parody. I really have no idea where Charles aligns him politically these days, but I don’t think it’s really some place I want to be.
P.S. Can someone please tell me who the hell Alex Jones is exactly?
Comment by ThomasD on 4/27 @ 10:17 pm #
Is somebody being naughty with a sock puppet?
Comment by Republican on Acid on 4/27 @ 10:17 pm #
BTW
Thanks for the props Jeff. You is gooder people.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 10:18 pm #
his problem is with:
so f&&((((((____k him and his boat, ax the allan damned white house about it. good luck with a coherent response from gibbs.
Comment by Sdferr on 4/27 @ 10:20 pm #
He used to comment here as dre (still does at Contentions) and tore into me too blowhard, when I asked him whether he wasn’t the commenter named dre, what was that router, about four months ago now? Anyhow, he’s one prickly sob, that’s for sure. Paranoid much? Or just a hard drinker with an edge on him when he’s in his cups?
Comment by DonP on 4/27 @ 10:24 pm #
Um, exactly. “his problem is with:…White House Military Office Director Louis Caldera”. The White House. He thinks they might not be on the level. The White House. Wants to know if there’s any evidence that THE WHITE HOUSE might be lying. Not the thousands(?) that saw this happen. The White House.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 10:24 pm #
dude there’s photo evidence of a nice mr. obama bowing to the saudi king. but i like his 9/11 lite affair too. allan help us with the signed mags for sidwell friends?
Comment by Travis on 4/27 @ 10:24 pm #
P.S. Can someone please tell me who the hell Alex Jones is exactly?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/
Comment by ThomasD on 4/27 @ 10:26 pm #
Strangely enough I had always thought Alex Jones was a chick.
Live and learn.
Comment by Jeff G. on 4/27 @ 10:26 pm #
Off topic, but I was in the Super Target yesterday when some woman in her late 40s and her daughter, late 20s, I’m guessing, cornered me and asked if I was somebody I’d never heard of on American Idol.
I was feeling all good about myself until I mentioned it — and the contestant’s name — to my wife, who said, “oh, you mean the chubby guy with the glasses?”
THANKS!
Comment by blowhard on 4/27 @ 10:26 pm #
Could be, sdferr.
Comment by Jeff G. on 4/27 @ 10:27 pm #
My doppleganger is Danny Gokey.
Joy!
Comment by Travis on 4/27 @ 10:29 pm #
I have Alex Jones bookmarked because he’s something of a loon. Loons are useful because they ask questions and go with stories others won’t.
Example; Ret. Army General Russell Honoré on CNN: “How did it start in Mexico, where did it eminate from? We’ve been able to find that out in all previous pandemics, the question now is to get at the heart of how this started - did it start from the occasion of viruses coming together or did it come out of a lab? All those questions have to be answered.â€
This is a real story, though not likely IMHO.
Then you get the full loon with…
CANCER CONSPIRACY? Are “they” suppressing the cure? Will YOU be the next victim? Learn the Secret Truth! - READ FULL STORY
Comment by Sdferr on 4/27 @ 10:29 pm #
Dude!? Now you’ve done it, we’ll be knowing you as the tCGWtGs from here out.
Comment by Republican on Acid on 4/27 @ 10:30 pm #
Phil,
Today when I was picking up my daughter from preschool I was listening to Limbaugh. During the commercial break there was an ad for the movie named The Obama Deception which I believe was put out by the Alex Jones people. He is insane and even though I would probably WANT to agree with most of that movie, Jones is very good at rearranging anything to tell HIS narrative. He is one of those “Jews control the earth” sort of people. I think the last time any conservatives had recourse with him was when he was following Michelle Malkin around screaming at her that she was a murderer for supporting imperialism. Or some nonsense like that.
Comment by Phil on 4/27 @ 10:30 pm #
I hadn’t even heard of him. Charles keeps talking about him as if he’s about to win the next nomination for President or something.
It sounds like in his desire for looking for a conservative crazy that isn’t there, Charles might have gone a little crazy himself. He could probably use a long break.
I really have no idea where he aligns these days. And frankly, it’s too confusing and I don’t really care so I think I won’t be visiting anymore.
Comment by blowhard on 4/27 @ 10:31 pm #
Danny Gokey?
Awesome, just awesome. A cock-slapping might have been in order.
Comment by ThomasD on 4/27 @ 10:32 pm #
Jeff you really should have broken in to song.
Comment by Republican on Acid on 4/27 @ 10:35 pm #
My last brush with doppelganger fame was when my pals mother said I looked like a fat Ben Affleck. I instantly tasted pre-vomit in the back of my mouth.
Comment by Sdferr on 4/27 @ 10:35 pm #
Was that the craziness caught on video as Michelle was reporting at the Democratic National Convention in Denver last summer?
Comment by Republican on Acid on 4/27 @ 10:38 pm #
@106
I think so, I think that was the one.
Comment by SBP on 4/27 @ 10:39 pm #
Is Alex Jones the nutbar who got punched out by Buzz Aldrin, or am I thinking of a different loon?
Comment by Sdferr on 4/27 @ 10:40 pm #
Google says that was one Bart Sibrel, SBP, whoever the heck that is.
Comment by SBP on 4/27 @ 10:44 pm #
Ah. Yep.
Just found the footage on YouTube.
I wonder how it feels to get your ass kicked by a 75 year old man?
Comment by blowhard on 4/27 @ 10:46 pm #
Buzz clearly still has the right stuff.
Comment by Travis on 4/27 @ 10:48 pm #
#
Comment by SBP on 4/27 @ 10:44 pm #
Ah. Yep.
Just found the footage on YouTube.
I wonder how it feels to get your ass kicked by a 75 year old man?
That’s funny! I mean you get beaten up by a 75 year old man, or you can be the guy who beat up a 75 year American hero.
Guy should have just walked away.
Comment by Sdferr on 4/27 @ 10:51 pm #
OT, it’s cheery to see the Ducks knocking off the President’s Trophy winning San Jose Shirks tonight, it’s been one whale of a good series to watch.
Comment by dicentra on 4/27 @ 10:52 pm #
I really have no idea where he aligns these days. And frankly, it’s too confusing and I don’t really care so I think I won’t be visiting anymore.
Not to worry. You’ve prolly been banned already.
Comment by bastiches on 4/27 @ 10:53 pm #
Thanks, Jeff. 2nd funniest thing I’ve read today.
1st being Sheriff Joe-Joe’s ice cream trip on Hillbuzz.
RoA,
You have to look on the bright side of things. I mean, at least you weren’t accused of Matt Damon impersonation.
Comment by Sdferr on 4/27 @ 10:58 pm #
The Powerline cribs a funny from Confederate Yankee, to wit:
Comment by Jonas Sedlar on 4/27 @ 10:59 pm #
(1) I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed quite the degree of friendly fire as that which was strafed across this thread by “router” this evening.
(2) I think it’s rude when people tell other people they “look like” so-and-so. I don’t care if they compare you to Brad Pitt or Jessica Alba. I think it’s rude. It kind of deindividualizes people, if that’s a word. “Deindividualizes,” not “people.”
Comment by bastiches on 4/27 @ 11:08 pm #
It kind of deindividualizes people, if that’s a word. “Deindividualizes,†not “people.â€,/i>
If it’s coming from someone you just bump into, it’s probably just the result of our celeb obsessed society. If if comes from someone you know, it’s more likely just a half-assed attempt at a compliment.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 11:11 pm #
do you also post at lgf?
Comment by blowhard on 4/27 @ 11:14 pm #
router, just call it a night.
Comment by dicentra on 4/27 @ 11:15 pm #
router
Take your meds already. I know they’ll keep you up at night if you take them late, but at least take a half-dose so you don’t weird-out your brain with the fluctuating levels.
Trust me on this.
Comment by Zaphod on 4/27 @ 11:17 pm #
Not at all shocking, coming from Barack Obunghole. Each and every day this man finds a way to harm America’s interests while helping America’s enemies.
He probably thinks this was a terribly clever joke.
Of course, this is the same man who was demanding that wounded American soldiers pay for their own medical treatment.
Comment by Jonas Sedlar on 4/27 @ 11:18 pm #
do you also post at lgf?
Put it this way: It just took me about 45 seconds to figure out what “lgf” meant. So, um, no.
I’m don’t even understand the question’s context. Is there a lot of friendly fire at LGF? Is there a commenter named Jonas Sedlar? Did you leave all your periods and capital letters there? I honestly don’t get what you’re getting at.
Comment by Phil on 4/27 @ 11:24 pm #
I frankly am getting tired of all the eating of our own. We’ve got a President who is openly shitting on our poor little country and some people are more worried about who gets to lead the opposition.
As Reagan used to say, my 80 percent ally is not my 20 percent enemy. If Charles wants to ban people because they’re not sufficiently anti-creationist enough for his standards, then he can kindly go blow me. (no I haven’t been banned yet, but i’m sure it’s coming)
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 11:26 pm #
really do you folks just browbeat people you disagree with or do you put forth an argument. and if you have an argument what is it exactly other than condescension?
Comment by Dave E. on 4/27 @ 11:27 pm #
I think I mistakenly launched a little friendly fire at dicentra sometime back and Dan was kind enough to gently back me off. It happens. There’s no excuse for not paying attention though, router. Particularly when the host himself chimes in. Chill out, dude.
Comment by baldilocks on 4/27 @ 11:29 pm #
Hahaha!
You just have to laugh.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 11:30 pm #
i took my meds what is your argument against what i have posted here?
1. O! didn’t fly his plane in nyc?
2. O! WH didn’t say they flew in nyc
3. people in nyc didn’t take pictures of O!’s plane flying in nyc.
what’s is your argument?
Comment by blowhard on 4/27 @ 11:33 pm #
You’ve gone hard at me for no reason before, router. Sdferr, a guy I trust, says he’s had a similar experience. Tonight, I’ve seen you go after Rep on Acid. Even after Jeff (you know, proprietor, chief semiotician) personally vouched for him.
That’s not browbeating an unpopular opinion. That’s social disapproval.
Sleep on it and then dial it down a bit tomorrow.
Comment by Jonas Sedlar on 4/27 @ 11:37 pm #
No, router, nobody is disagreeing with you. That’s the thing. You’ve misinterpreted people’s posts, then attacked them because of your misinterpretations.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 11:44 pm #
Comment by TorchesToRome on 4/27 @ 11:46 pm #
Is router Charles Johnson?
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 11:47 pm #
there’s copy/paste/blockquote available if you want to show that. blathering about it doesn’t support your argument.
Comment by Topsecretk9 on 4/27 @ 11:47 pm #
111. Comment by blowhard
HEH!
Comment by Zaphod on 4/27 @ 11:47 pm #
Thought it was interesting that FOX is declining to grant Obunghole yet another hour in prime time coverage.
While other networks are celebrating Barky’s 100th day, FOX will be showing the series, “Lie to Me.”
Im still not certain how the two programs differ.
Comment by DonP on 4/27 @ 11:48 pm #
what type of person would ask for the gov’t photographers to produce the pictures for a major screw up for the O!? what type of person says that
“White House Military Office Director Louis Caldera apologized for any panic caused by a flight mission and photo op †is lying?
The kind who thinks they never took any pictures and were actually doing something else.
Comment by Boeing on 4/27 @ 11:48 pm #
This was the use of (one of) the Air Force One 747’s.
The decision could not have been made by some mid-level bureaucrat.
Rahm Emanuel threw some papers on Obama’s desk to sign weeks ago authorizing this, Obama was just not paying attention.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 11:48 pm #
no router waiting for you to provide your arguments not you collective disapproval.
Comment by George Orwell on 4/27 @ 11:51 pm #
#124
So right… The present trouble consists of the fact that finding anyone who agrees with even half of classical liberalism any longer has become akin to prospecting gold. Not a lucrative venture. I feel like we are at the point in the movie where the “artist” unveils his creation, which has been hidden demurely beneath a black drape. The abominable sculpture has been in progress for years, but we only receive the full brunt of its hideous discord when unveiled in a dramatic, historic sweep of Hope and Change. The culture has grown rotten, and it spits up a political turd like Obama in just the same way bacteria or mold expel noxious fumes in the simple process of respiration. A culture in decay must outgas.
We’re left with peat and compost. I don’t know what can grow out of it, if anything can.
Comment by Jonas Sedlar on 4/27 @ 11:57 pm #
OK, router, here are your blockquotes.
Republican On Acid wrote this:
You responded with this:
Unless you’re defending Obama, your post amounts to a non sequitur. ROA expressed skepticism not about the existence of the flight, but about its role as a photo op. You then quoted an Obama official calling it a photo op. OK. So an Obama official called it a photo op. You’re begging the question.
What I actually think is that you didn’t understand ROA’s post, and mistakenly went on the attack.
Comment by Phil on 4/28 @ 12:01 am #
Yes, who will stand up for constitutional values, the very things this country was founded on? The President surely not. Andrew Sullivan is too busy explaining how 800 billion dollar stimulus boondaggles enhance his fiscal conservative bonafides. David Brooks and Peggy Noonan are too desperate to remain on the cocktail party circuit to say anything critical. And Charles Johnson seems more interested in outing everyone who isn’t in lock step with him as a creationist.
What is the common thread? They’re all “conservatives” more interested in attacking their own and denouncing this group or that than in advancing Classical Liberalism.
My blogroll has evolved over time. It’s now been reduced to Instapundit and PW. In an insane world, Jeff and Glenn are voices of sanity.
Comment by Phil on 4/28 @ 12:08 am #
Just as a follow up to 141, a moderate friend who voted for Obama was talking about how we need to fix health care. I mentioned that nowhere is it mentioned in the Constitution that the federal government is responsible for every citizen’s health care and that this was a responsibility of the states, if anything. I asked him to find me a constitutional justification for federally run government health care.
Debate over. He didn’t even try. Instead, he simply responded, “Well we don’t really follow the Constitution anymore.”
Maybe we should start again. It worked pretty damn well before. And whatever it is the hell we are doing now isn’t working so hot for us right now.
Comment by blowhard on 4/28 @ 12:14 am #
Well, router, shit like this just makes you seem crazy:
That’s just in this thread. You sound like the Unibomber texting while drunk.
Comment by SporkLift Driver on 4/28 @ 12:14 am #
Isn’t Alex Jones also a troofer? I’ve had a lot of irl lefty Bush conspiracy douches cite prisonplanet as the place get their talking points from. The proprietor of PrisonPlanet switched sides since Teh Won ascended? Charles did a lot of good things in the past, lately he just makes me go wtf?.
Comment by bastiches on 4/28 @ 12:25 am #
Debate over. He didn’t even try. [...] Debate over. He didn’t even try.
Well, that’s more honesty than I expect from any leftie. Must be a good friend.
Comment by maggie katzen on 4/28 @ 12:27 am #
more like the progenitor of troofers.
Comment by R. Gomez on 4/28 @ 12:47 am #
It won;t make the news unless they can figure out a way to blame it on Bush.
I’m really starting to believe Obama thinks 911 was funny.
Comment by George Orwell on 4/28 @ 12:48 am #
#142
Never mind the fact that the gubmint can’t provide healthcare and medicine for everyone in unlimited amounts as a right, in the manner of a true right as the right to free speech. (See, Great Britain, Canada, Healthcare Debacles Thereof)
You see the difference? A right as a classical liberal understands it is utterly unrelated to the notion of a right in the leftard mind. A “right” to healthcare as Nancy Lugosi would have it is nothing less than a demand to make some people your slaves. “You owe me treatment, doctor, and I will have the government kill or fine or imprison you unless you make me happy.” That is the naked demand of our age of rights… rights as a lien on everyone else’s lives, not as a limit on the power of others over you.
No one anywhere will ever have the same medicine as the politically connected, or rich, or productive, or intelligent. Period. Medicine is a commodity like any other insofar as it must be produced by someone, and consumed by someone. Even the dreamlike paradise of the Peoples’ Soviet Socialistic Republic guaranteed decent healthcare to the commisars and the Politburo. The proles, not so much. If this is too much to decipher for the Nation Below Canada, so be it. This nation is dead as an exercise in Enlightenment and its classical values.
Imagine a day when literally every human activity will be so intertwined with the necessity of paying tribute to the government that we will all be like fish, unable to imagine a world outside of the watery realm. Your toilet flush, and the very installation of your toilet will be regulated by gallon, by usage per day, by size, by weight, by material. No eco-unfriendly materials allowed. Your toilet paper will be monitored by armies of inspectors, all making decent gubmint salaries (by comparison to peers, but far less than today), for pH, for chemical content, for number of pieces used per day, for dyes and perfumes. The most eco-friendly will be like sandpaper, but will be the cheapest by gubmint fiat. Your food will be rationed, not by scarcity, but by salt content, by caloric content, by fat content, by your gubmint-certified physical activity scale, which will also determine how soon and how much medical care you will be eligible to receive. Forget about eating what you want… once the gubmint and the MSM gets in on the act of lecturing you on your diet with the same intensity that they lecture us today about AGW and “going green,” the docile proles will not object to either rations or punitive taxes on items like beef, dairy, veal, oils, etc. And this is all at your breakfast, before you even leave the house to get on the public transit (infrequent buses powered by balky fuel cells) to your regulated, regimented job in a cube farm, and the gubmint owns half of your employer’s business as an emergency measure to “protect public interests and the health of the economy.”
The future of humanity is an ant colony.
Comment by Merovign on 4/28 @ 1:11 am #
router: The little-known first rule of “stirring up shit” is “make any fucking sense at all.”
Everybody hates Mondays, but that’s no reason to down two bottles of tequila and start a flame war.
When you’re going on about something and the 20 other people present say you’re not making any sense, either you’re a rare genius amongst proles or you fucked up. “messiah you f55KIN idiots are lame” may indicate the latter.
Comment by Yackums on 4/28 @ 2:47 am #
#142
Your friend sounds like the average Reform Jew. “That
TorahConstitution stuff is for my grandparents and other old people; we’veprogressedevolved beyond it…”Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 3:49 am #
I heard that Sasha has this little stuffed animal for a project at school. You’re supposed to take pictures of the little stuffed monkey in different places and then send it along. Helps with understanding each other. Look closely. There’s a little stuffed monkey on AFO.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/28 @ 4:44 am #
“Comment by Techie on 4/27 @ 9:16 pm #
Does the Messiah have a decent handicap?”
Well, he is a socialist.
Comment by Rusty on 4/28 @ 5:22 am #
Mostly I get mistaken for for somebody people went to school with.”say. Aren’t you soandso?” So I just go along and have nice noncommital conversations. When asked what I’m doing now, I usually answer I just got out of prison. Helps relieve the boredom.
Comment by Joe on 4/28 @ 5:53 am #
router = Charles Johnson sock puppet
Comment by JHoward on 4/28 @ 6:01 am #
Three words for your national security wingers: Had. Bush. Done. It.
Three more: The MSM is all over this one so back off. Don’t make me have to get up and come over there again. Wingers.
Comment by kasper on 4/28 @ 6:04 am #
What’s the fuss about. It’s just a movie folks, and TOTUS is just playing his role as POTUS. You know, just like “24.”
Comment by Pablo on 4/28 @ 6:05 am #
I ran into a lady in the airport the other day that looked just like Donna Brazile. It turned out to be Donna Brazile.
bh,
IIRC, Kaczynski understood the use of the Shift key. Also, syntax.
Comment by Joe on 4/28 @ 6:05 am #
Downfall of the Lizoids
An old joke, remade! It is actually pretty good.
Comment by B Moe on 4/28 @ 6:16 am #
I would really like for folks to start referring to government health care correctly, and stop using the proponents propaganda.
The government is granting you a right to health care. They are denying you the right to any health care except what they deem appropriate, and forcing you to pay for it whether you use it or not.
They are taking away rights, never forget that.
Comment by B Moe on 4/28 @ 6:17 am #
First line of second paragraph should be “The government is NOT granting you a right to health care”>
Comment by Lost My Cookies on 4/28 @ 6:45 am #
I have nothing to say. I’m speechless. I can’t even work up a lame dick joke. What I’d really like to do is punch that asshole in the face, but hey, he won.
Pingback by The Obligatory “White House Terrifies NYC/NJ” Post . . . | Little Miss Attila on 4/28 @ 7:00 am #
[...] already been done by Jeff Goldstein. Share and Enjoy: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and [...]
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/28 @ 7:03 am #
As I asked over at Ace’s place: Did it never occur to anyone to do this on a Saturday or Sunday? Or to just not do it?
The whole administration has nothing but contempt for the people of the US. That’s why they’re bound and determined to take over as much of the economy as possible — we’re not smart enough to run our own lives.
Comment by Matt on 4/28 @ 7:05 am #
I liked the “World’s Biggest Cloud Car” comment. Rahm, Napolitano, Geitner, the teleprompter all pile out of the plane with mime makeup on.
Beyond parody. If this was Bush’s doing, democrats would be screaming that we should have shot it down rather than take a chance.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/28 @ 7:05 am #
Via insty, two more White House photo ops.
Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 7:08 am #
I feel sorry for the Saturday Night Live staff. Their writers’ block must be very frustrating.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/28 @ 7:11 am #
I would like to talk to the pilots involved. I know they were ordered to do this, but I’d love to ask them, “How often did you say ‘are you fucking kidding me’?”
Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 7:18 am #
Obama says one pilot’s name is Goose and the other is Maverick and they’ve had trouble with them buzzing buildings in the past.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 7:21 am #
My definition of torture is making another human being wish they were dead, rather than endure more torture.
Killing someone erases their will….torturing them turns them into an automaton, obeying the commands of the torturer.
Torturing someone subverts their will to be the will of the torturer.
Did those New Yorkers wish they were dead?
Torture, just like slavery, is the NEGATION of free will.
And like slavery it is just wrong, the anti-thesis of humanity.
That being said, we did torture, and it was wrong.
What should happen next?
Rather than wilin’ out on Obama with faux-outrage, you people should be working to negotiate blanket pardons for the higher ups, so that we can move forward.
Obama said we should move forward.
He already pardoned the agents that carried out the torture.
But as long as you continue to deny that Bush and Cheney instantiated institutionalized torture in America, the partisans on the left are going to try to force a truth commission and show trials.
That would be very bad for America.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/28 @ 7:24 am #
Did somebody fart in #169?
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 4/28 @ 7:25 am #
nishi: Read this and respond, if you will.
And you are way off topic in this thread.
Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 7:34 am #
Nishi never even came close to arguing against what seems to be held as fact that Obama is an idiot. Checkmate.
Comment by apotheosis on 4/28 @ 7:35 am #
I think maybe router was ‘faced last night. Which happens to some of us sometimes, in this age of enlightenment.
Pingback by Tennesseefree.com » Obama: stupid, stupid, STUPID! on 4/28 @ 7:42 am #
[...] a maroon. h/t Jeff G crossed from [...]
Comment by SBP on 4/28 @ 7:43 am #
Bush and Cheney instantiated institutionalized torture in America
Liar.
Comment by Bod on 4/28 @ 7:45 am #
Getting ‘faced is a rational reaction to the Clown Car Cavalcade we’ve been exposed to this last 100 days.
Comment by SBP on 4/28 @ 7:46 am #
My definition of torture
My definition of “nishi” is “stupid, lying child who wants to have sex with Dick Cheney”.
Nice! I love this new “progressive” technique where you get to make up the definitions of words as you go along.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/28 @ 7:48 am #
“Man can be chained, but he cannot be domesticated.”
-Robert A. Heinlein
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/28 @ 7:52 am #
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 7:21 am #
My definition of torture is trying to read your incoherent ramblings on pw,
Comment by RTO Trainer on 4/28 @ 7:57 am #
irrelevant.
Go get yourself elected to Congress, and if you genuinly feel strongly enough about it perhaps you can push them out of their politically expedient negligence and get them to actually define it.
Of course that would require communications skills and persuasive ability so there doesn’t seem much chance.
Comment by Pablo on 4/28 @ 7:58 am #
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 7:58 am #
BJT, torture is torture whether there is any pay-off or not.
Let me put it this way…can we rationalize slavery of other humans for a high value payoff?
Comment by Pablo on 4/28 @ 7:59 am #
Oh, and antithesis is a word. You could Google it.
Comment by apotheosis on 4/28 @ 7:59 am #
can we rationalize slavery of other humans for a high value payoff?
Get back to ironing my shirts, and I’ll let you know if I can live with myself.
Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 8:00 am #
This administration. They re-enacted 9/11 in Manhattan. That’s just stupid.
This administration.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 8:04 am #
RTO, Reagan signed off on this definition of torture.
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 4/28 @ 8:05 am #
No, no, nishi, you don’t get to duck the question as laid out in my comment on the other thread.
Are you willing to state, categorically, that one instance “negation of free will,” is more egregious than hundreds of potential American deaths?
If so, explain your reasoning and not by making inapt and dodging examples.
Comment by Republican on Acid on 4/28 @ 8:10 am #
The Breitbart clip needs to be edited. First it should have the title “Obama photo op”, then near the end of the clip, “FAIL!”.
Comment by Joe on 4/28 @ 8:11 am #
Naomi Wolf almost makes sense on torture, till she follows her master Soros’ directions and calls for show trials of Bush and Cheney. Still, worth reading.
Comment by Merovign on 4/28 @ 8:14 am #
Death is the negation of free will.
Comment by Ted Nugent's Soul Patch on 4/28 @ 8:15 am #
“Nice! I love this new “progressive†technique where you get to make up the definitions of words as you go along.”
New? This has been going on since 1917.
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 4/28 @ 8:15 am #
I went to my local sandwich shop today and they were out of Genoa Salami.
NEGATION OF MY FREE WILL!!! BURN THEM!!!
Comment by geoffb on 4/28 @ 8:16 am #
Except in the fictional version “President David Palmer” actually cared about the US. We seem to have “President Charles Logan’s” stupid evil step-brother.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 8:18 am #
Yes. I would also be against taking one slave, or torturing one child to death.
I’m Alyosha, dude.
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 4/28 @ 8:19 am #
Anyone else see the transcendent irony in nishi calling “torture” the “negation of free will” as applied to a frackin’ non-combatant prisoner?
Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 8:19 am #
“Okay Timmy, you’ve got your waterwings on. Now I’m going to throw you into the pool and your head will go under and you’ll think you’re going to die, but don’t worry, you’ll come back up. ”
Overheard at local YMCA Torture Chamber.
Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 8:20 am #
Beef is torture.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 8:23 am #
Russian Lit 101.
;)
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 4/28 @ 8:23 am #
Well at least you are intellectually honest about your position if somewhat cold hearted.
Now let’s extend the scenario. If instead of a potential of hundreds of American deaths there were credible evidence of a plot to detonate a nuclear device in a major city that could potentially kill millions. Still no waterboarding, nishi?
Oh and I shouldn’t need to explain the nuanced differences between “slavery” an institutionalized and long term oppression against a targeted and legally reviewed program with checks and balances that resulted in exactly three prisoners being waterboarded. The metaphor is moronic.
Whatever floats your boat.
Comment by panthergirl on 4/28 @ 8:23 am #
@197 - Don’t get them started! Don’t you know that animals, enemies of the state, and prisoners on death row should have rights but American citizens should not?
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 8:24 am #
More Dostoyevski.
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 4/28 @ 8:26 am #
Apparently that “sublime idea” doesn’t include American citizens, clones or fetuses in nishi world.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/28 @ 8:26 am #
Why is anyone engaging the moron? She’s incapable of rational thought, and is merely parroting what someone said to her.
Comment by Darleen on 4/28 @ 8:27 am #
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 7:21 am #
oh kool…another childish loon who would rather see thousands of innocents in Los Angeles dead that to cause any discomfort to a murdering terrorist.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/28 @ 8:27 am #
Wasn’t nishi very specifically told not to come ’round here anymore?
Comment by Bod on 4/28 @ 8:29 am #
Sublime ideas like “Waterboard one shitheel to save the lives of 10,000″?
The same sublime idea that Nancy Pelosi and all the other shitheels in Congress signed off on in 2002, even if they’ve forgotten they did so? How terrible can a ‘crime against humanity’ be if she can’t remember being told about it?
You disgust us Nishi. Never forget that.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 8:30 am #
Still no waterboarding.
Still no torture.
Sure Churchillian interrogation–drugs drink deceit and threats.
Alternatively….
Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 8:30 am #
I still think converting the tactic to chocolate-syrup-boarding or bisque-boarding solves your problem.
Wait…..add shoulder massage and shampoo to the process and people will line up.
Hold it……..feed the tuna mayonnaise.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 8:37 am #
“Wasn’t nishi very specifically told not to come ’round here anymore?”
I check back periodically looking for fragments of the oldschool JeffieG, and to read feets.
I miss the old Jeff quite a lot.
He inspired Michelle Malkin to start blogging, didja know?
Sad.
Comment by Matt on 4/28 @ 8:40 am #
*Everybody hates Mondays, but that’s no reason to down two bottles of tequila*
Wait, I need a reason ??
Comment by Darleen on 4/28 @ 8:41 am #
nishi
you still have the moral development of a slime mold. Such as you cannot be trusted with adult decisions.
Comment by Matt on 4/28 @ 8:43 am #
*Obama says one pilot’s name is Goose and the other is Maverick and they’ve had trouble with them buzzing buildings in the past.*
That comment made my morning al - and not the first time one of your comments has done so.
Also, one of my prior posts should have read “World’s Biggest Clown Car”. However, I’m an idiot who fails to proof.
Comment by BJT-FREE! on 4/28 @ 8:46 am #
Anybody else see the transcendent irony of nishi quoting xtian scripture?
Maybe it’s just me.
Just so we are clear: Nishi states that a potential attck that could kill a million or more American citizens still doesn’t morally allow water boarding a captured terrorist.
That’s exactly what I though she was going to say, being as her philosophy is that it doesn’t matter how many humans die as long as her extremist version of libertarianism is allowed to flourish.
Thanks for the confirmation. I’m done now.
Comment by geoffb on 4/28 @ 8:46 am #
Abortion? ESCR? Cloning? The irony here is strong.
The Left never cares about the innocent, they have no power and so are worthless. They care about and nurture the evil ones because they do have power. Power determines all their morality. How many “watts” are you worth do you think?
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 8:50 am #
geoffb, a differentiated cell clump is not a human life, and not even a human life from teleological argument.
It is a cell clump.
It can neither be tortured or enslaved because it is not sentient.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 8:52 am #
“her extremist version of libertarianism is allowed to flourish.”
Well….at least he didn’t call meh a socialist.
;)
Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 8:54 am #
I thought “cell clump” was prison-induced baldness.
Comment by Matt on 4/28 @ 8:56 am #
*a differentiated cell clump is not a human life*
At what point is it no longer a differentiated cell clump ? Third term ? When it comes out of the breeder ? First time it cries ? First time it votes democrat ?
Comment by JHoward on 4/28 @ 8:56 am #
About cell clumps, nuggie: How is it that you aren’t one? Surely all that quantum learning of yours can develop a perspective on the soul, can it not?
Consider this my encouragement for you to do so, here, now.
Comment by JHoward on 4/28 @ 8:57 am #
(Sophistry ensues)
Comment by Pablo on 4/28 @ 9:01 am #
Eugenics is cool, but waterboarding mass murderers is reprehensible.
Nishi, you’re a fucking clown and a deranged one at that. Do piss off, won’t you? How many times do you need to be thrown out of here before you get the hint?
Comment by geoffb on 4/28 @ 9:05 am #
is a euphemism, a way of avoiding the word human, the word child. A “cell clump†has no power. It is only there to serve, to be served up. A “soylent green” to be used, served up, in the unholy communion of the progressive left.
“East bound and down”
Comment by happyfeet on 4/28 @ 9:06 am #
nishi! Hi ya there - where are you doing any commenting these days? Do you know how many things happen in any given dirty socialist week that I wonder what nishi thinks about that right there? Several.
Comment by JHoward on 4/28 @ 9:10 am #
Actually, Pablo, if you understand states and properties, well then you understand reality.
See, the mind behind behaviors and consequences is a construct, naturally meaning that an entire city of them is disposable while an individual is simply not to be subject to stuff the definitions of which are still plastic.
How it all fits together is an eternal mystery although if you come at it from just the right angle it still kinda works. Nuggie is a hard-edged classicist wherever she’s not a complete ridiculing sophist.
Comment by Bod on 4/28 @ 9:12 am #
Nishi’s channelling Sully channeling a short article from the London Times, Online from 2006 by a guy named Ben MacIntyre. Lazy research, shoddy douchebaggery.
What she omits is the list of drugs allegedly employed by Stephens which anecdotally included scopalomine. Scopalomine is somewhat different from the stuff much-used in Cold War Spy Movies. Squirting a load of that shit in a victim’s bloodstream is considerably more likely to harm the recipient that being waterboarded. Nishi needs to be more circumspect when it’s trying to promote Stephens as some kind of moral paragon.
Use of scopalomine is (unsurprisingly) not permitted under the Geneva Conventions (assuming people like KSM deserve such protections, which they don’t)
http://www.neuroeconomicstudies.org/pdf/Some%20Believe%20Truth%20Serums%20Will%20Come%20Back%20-%20washingtonpost.pdf
A Stephens quote from “Camp 020: MI5 and the Nazi spies” (Public Record Office, 2000), p. 198″
“Indeed, there may well be many who will agree that death by hanging is almost too good for a sailor who will encompass the death of thousands of his shipmates without qualm.”
The primary source of case studies and history of Camp 020 was that document - which was writen by Robin Stephens himself. History, Winners, etc, etc.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 9:13 am #
Douthat advocates a truth commission in the NYT.
I’ll be interested to see what Jeff thinks.
Hi feets!
;)
Comment by Lost My Cookies on 4/28 @ 9:13 am #
My definition of torture
Have you thought of what you’re doing to that definition?
Comment by happyfeet on 4/28 @ 9:15 am #
Douthat looks like that British Office guy. I bet he gets that a lot. My favorite is when he plays his guitar.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 9:18 am #
Bod, the treaty Reagan signed was post-Stephens, post WWII.
Read my lips.
No torture.
I would advocate the use of SOME modern drugs, like the neurohormone oxytocin, a naturally occurring part of homosapiens blood chemistry, or say, OFFERED cannabis, as an invitation to smoke up with the interrogater. I would not, however, advocate deliberately introducing addictive drugs, or advocate scopalamine use post the treaty.
Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 9:20 am #
Douthat looks like that British Office guy. I bet he gets that a lot. My favorite is when he plays his guitar.
I think he looks like his face is trying with all its might to get away from his hair.
Comment by Dan Collins on 4/28 @ 9:22 am #
I’m certain, Nishi, that you’re just OUTRAGED by Perez Hilton’s limelight stealing introduction of a purely political question into a friggin’ beauty pageant, and the way people are demanding that the woman retract her dangerous position. Because of the national security implications.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 9:22 am #
That is MY definition.
My country’s definition is spelled out in that treaty that Reagan signed.
Comment by geoffb on 4/28 @ 9:23 am #
Bod,
Good comment but you need to either tiny url the long link names or embed them using html. Too long a character string here causes the page to expand horizontally to the point that sideways scrolling is needed to read it.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/28 @ 9:24 am #
“Sad.”
Yes, yes you are.
Now foad.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/28 @ 9:25 am #
A large swath of the political class wants to avoid the torture debate says Ross but an even larger swath of people wants to avoid the “torture debate” too. That would be voters. The noob wanted to write something anything on the topic of the week I think. He hasn’t learned to distinguish between topics what people are talking about and topics about which he has something to say. To say no for real guys I think we should talk more about this topic what everybody is talking about this week is kind of a lot not following in the footsteps of the William Safire. It’s not even trying.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 9:26 am #
Dan, all that chicklet had to do was give your stock federalism answer.
Its the equivalent of the World Peace question, dude.
Judge: And how would you help implement World Peace?
Miss Cali: By having everyone LOVE JESUS!
It wasn’t a litmus test for conservative values…..it was a litmus test for IQ …….and public speaking ability perhaps.
;)
Comment by JHoward on 4/28 @ 9:27 am #
So is lead, nuggie.
Comment by ushie on 4/28 @ 9:29 am #
I don’t like Mondays.
So, waterboarding is bad, but flushing a cell clump is good. Now I don’t like Tuesdays.
Comment by Dan Collins on 4/28 @ 9:30 am #
You’re exactly wrong about that, Nishi. And you’d know that, if you listened carefully to what Perez Hilton said about it after the fact.
Every opinion you express comes down to some version of “people who differ with me are retarded.” It’s a singularly uninteresting, unilluminating and finally unimaginative position. In other words, you’re pretty much like Perez Hilton. Congratulations.
Comment by Bod on 4/28 @ 9:31 am #
Fair point on the link, geoff
Interesting to see Nishi thinking that a Reagan-era policy enjoys stare decicis status, but wants everyone to adopt her definition of torture.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 9:32 am #
feets…..55% favor “harsh interrogation”….that was what we call a “push” question in polling.
It removed the negative of the word torture from the sentiment sample.
What would the response have been if the question was “Do you think America should torture?” do you think?
and 51% to 45% favor a truth commission.
I’m kinda thinking the truth commission is going to happen now.
Comment by JHoward on 4/28 @ 9:34 am #
It also removed the definition of the word torture from the sentiment sample.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 9:34 am #
Dan, If I were Miss Cali, I would have answered ….”Perez, hunnie, I think that issue is up to the States to decide.”
Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 9:35 am #
“What doesn’t kill us, only makes us stronger.”
Ooh. Burn.
Comment by Bod on 4/28 @ 9:36 am #
Nishi.
The new, kinder type of Federalist.
Comment by Sdferr on 4/28 @ 9:36 am #
Are we going to call this commission — in accord with the Rortian casting off of Truth for
truth— by its more proper name, a Political Power Commission?Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/28 @ 9:38 am #
“Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 9:32 am #
feets…..55% favor “harsh interrogationâ€â€¦.that was what we call a “push†question in polling.
It removed the negative of the word torture from the sentiment sample.”
That’d be because it ain’t torture, you retarded marmoset.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 9:39 am #
It also removed the definition of the word torture from the sentiment sample.
Yup.
Another good poll question might have been,” is waterboarding torture?”
I’m just going from the treaty definition, which would seem to delegate waterboarding to the torture category.
It is possible that the Bybee memos legally redefined waterboarding as NOT-torture.
I guess we will find out in the truth commission.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/28 @ 9:39 am #
truth commission isn’t any less misleading than harsh interrogation I don’t think. But the commission thingies were ordained when Daddy Soros said he wanted denazification and his muppet got elected. For real I don’t think there’s a pivot point on the matter of torture what we have seen this week. Kabuki.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/28 @ 9:41 am #
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 9:39 am #
You’re a fascist.
Comment by Dan Collins on 4/28 @ 9:41 am #
I say, let’s have us a Truth Commission about Congress’s role in the financial meltdown.
Comment by JHoward on 4/28 @ 9:42 am #
Another good poll question might have been, â€are you an intelligence expert” Or “do you want a raft of free shit from DC?†Or “how about a reparations for everybody but white straight guys”?
Comment by Pablo on 4/28 @ 9:42 am #
Ah, I see the retarded marmoset still has no idea what push polling is.
Comment by Sdferr on 4/28 @ 9:42 am #
Isn’t there a difference between two things, one of which is possible and the other not?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/28 @ 9:43 am #
Comment by Dan Collins on 4/28 @ 9:41 am #
But that’d involve exposing Congress to the truth and shit, wouldn’t it?
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 9:44 am #
Sdferr, hi!
Given that it looks like there is going to be a truth commission, I would stop flailing around defensively and try to spike any partisan guns that are in the process of being trained on Bush and Cheney.
Ie, negotiate for blanket immunity instead of insisting WE DIDN’T TORTURE, BUT ANYWAYS IT WORKED.
Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 9:44 am #
Congress and Truth. Good one.
Comment by Bod on 4/28 @ 9:45 am #
Truth is to Congress
what
Kryptonite is to Superman.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 9:47 am #
This Manzi thread has a good discussion.
I still comment at TAS sometimes, feets.
Comment by Matt on 4/28 @ 9:48 am #
Still waiting on your explanation about when fetus/baby/whatever term you want to give it stops being a cell clump nishi.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 9:48 am #
Actually, that might be a strong point to press for bipartisan blanket immunity….Congress knew and they approved.
Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 9:51 am #
Matt, my own personal opinion is that at 6 months gestation there is sufficient neocortical tissue to support REM sleep and therefore thought.
That would be consistant with Roe viability guidlines in the current state of med-tech.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/28 @ 9:53 am #
“TAS”
They Ate Shit?
Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 9:54 am #
Pelosi was asked and she said ‘YES’.
Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 9:55 am #
I wonder why the fetus wastes those first 6 months. Weird.
Comment by Dan Collins on 4/28 @ 9:59 am #
Sorta like the FOTUS and his administration positions, I guess.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/28 @ 10:01 am #
It would be interesting, particularly as Barney Fwank has clearly realized the role of CRA and his (literal!) butt-buddies in the GSO’s. If he didn’t, why would he have recently declared that it was the Republicans who were pushing for increasing home ownership, and that he would have preferred focusing on affordable apartments?
He’s desperately trying to escape any blame for the results of his own actions.
Which, BTW, is why we’ll never see any Congress critter forced to testify on any matter.
Comment by Matt on 4/28 @ 10:07 am #
Fair enough. Are you against 3rd trimester abortions ?
Comment by alppuccino on 4/28 @ 10:08 am #
Barney’s career is all in print.
GERSH: You're going to have jurisdiction over many industries in the financial services sector: insurance, banking, housing. What's your top priority?FRANK: Affordable housing is the single biggest one. We have a terrible housing crisis in this country and I think we now understand that housing is not simply a social good, but it's an economic practice (ph). The biggest difference people will see when we take over from the Republicans is we will reverse their policy of basically letting any affordable housing stock dwindle and not building any new stock. A related issue there is the question of predatory lending. We now have data from the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act that my former colleague Joe Kennedy worked so hard to enact. And now it's pretty clear. If you are African- American or Hispanic, you have less chance of getting a mortgage. And if you get one, you have a high chance of paying more even with other factors being equal for some reason. I think that has got to be a very high priority.
Comment by Bod on 4/28 @ 10:11 am #
Arlen Specter joining the Donks?
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=31639
Dayam! He was a Republican?
Comment by Sdferr on 4/28 @ 10:11 am #
Matt, don’t you ever wonder whether the division of gestation into trimesters isn’t — oh, I don’t know — a sort of falsehood designed to accomplish an end, a sneaky teleology, in fact?
Comment by Big D on 4/28 @ 10:17 am #
This has nothing to do with planes over NYC, but it is appropriate given the comments upthread. The visiting “moralist” might want to consider even though it was written by a dead white guy.
“A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the
high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The
laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country
when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country
by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law
itself, with life, liberty, property, and all those who are
enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the
means.” –Thomas Jefferson to John Colvin, 1810.
Comment by Spiny Norman on 4/28 @ 10:18 am #
Sort of, but he’s been “shacking up” with the Donks for years, so now in his dotage, I guess he’s “makin’ it legal”.
Comment by Lost My Cookies on 4/28 @ 10:27 am #
For the purposes of this Convention, the term “torture” means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
So now we get to read the memos, and see if there were any lawful sanctions. Incidentally, you bring up the fact that Reagan wrote that signing statement as if Reagan was infallible on matters of policy. Congress ratifies treaties, Presidents make speeches and phone calls to get Congress to buy off on said treaty. Sometimes, Presidents ignore treaties. Like this treaty. Which was clearly ignored by Clinton, when he authorized Extraordinary Rendition. Reagan, BTW, may not have liked torture, but he was a big fan of the Contras, who may have been on the right side of the argument, but weren’t exactly the nicest guys in the world.
No State Party shall expel, return (”refouler”) or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture.
I don’t think this treaty is worth the shit that the signatories wiped off their asses. That doesn’t mean I condone violence against prisoners, because I don’t. But I think there is a big difference between scaring the shit out of someone and beating the shit out of someone. The word “torture” can mean either, it’s lost anything but a subjective meaning as stated above. Using that definition, I can personally attest that the Philadelphia Police Dept. tortured me on two occasions between 1986 and 1991.
Back on topic, it’s the coercion of information out of these these murdering assholes that has allowed this administration to so completely downplay the terrorist threat that it’s possible for them to not even consider the effect of this stupid ass stunt.
Comment by Spiny Norman on 4/28 @ 10:27 am #
Big D,
Excellent Jefferson quote. It defines the “ticking time bomb” scenario rather well.
Hmmm… imagine for a moment if someone like, say, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (already a wanted man by then) was in our custody in late August of 2001, and rumors were that AQ had something big in the works (rumors were). We ask KSM nicely if there was any operation going on that we might want to know about, and his answer is “You will all die like dogs, infidel!” What do we do then? I think we know what nishi’s answer would be…
Comment by Dan Collins on 4/28 @ 10:29 am #
Dose him with chamomile again, Norman!
Comment by Spiny Norman on 4/28 @ 10:31 am #
With sugar.
One lump or two?
Comment by Ric Locke on 4/28 @ 10:32 am #
I think the Trooother Commissions are just the bestest idea.
In his stories, H. Beam Piper occasionally mentioned the Republic of Venus, where anyone voted out of office was immediately tried and executed. Sounds like a wonderful way to run a country, eh?
Regards,
Ric
Comment by Spiny Norman on 4/28 @ 10:33 am #
Sounds sorta like Venezuela, Ric.
Comment by dicentra on 4/28 @ 10:40 am #
we’re not smart enough to run our own lives
They don’t care if you’re smart enough or not. They just want to be in charge for THEIR own good. Because some people want to be in control, some want to be controlled, and the rest of us want nothing to do with it.
Re-read The Grand Inquisitor for a good excoriation of this tendency.
Comment by Big D on 4/28 @ 10:42 am #
One other thing that really gets me about this debate is the execution of war criminals after World War II. The Japanese tortured, beat, starved, and summarily executed POW’s. In some cases they used them for bayonet practice or just to see how many bones they could break before the prisoner would die. They treated the POW’s as less than human. Waterboarding was part of it, but certainly not worst. After the war the perpetrators were identified, tried and hanged.
Waterboarding was the least of their crimes. It’s like saying that Ted Bundy was executed for breaking and entering. Sure he was guilty of it, but that’s not why he was executed.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/28 @ 10:54 am #
“In his stories, H. Beam Piper occasionally mentioned the Republic of Venus, where anyone voted out of office was immediately tried and executed. Sounds like a wonderful way to run a country, eh?”
I’d prefer the executions as soon as they’re elected.
Save us a boatload of trouble.
+++ Piper was always one of my favorite authors, an upstate Penna guy.
From around Williamsport? he asked rhetorically…..
Comment by maggie katzen on 4/28 @ 11:09 am #
and iirc, he’s usually the one arguing for theocracy.
Comment by Pablo on 4/28 @ 11:14 am #
Furthermore, the version of waterboarding of which they were accused, was nothing like the KSM version.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/28 @ 11:20 am #
TAS, bookmarked. Thanks.
Comment by ushie on 4/28 @ 12:16 pm #
1. I don’t like Mondays.
2. Well, torture done by other cultures is something we should strive to understand. Torture here is done with caterpillars and is therefore wrong.
3. Williamsport, PA is one of the worst and crappiest places on earth. Persons released from Gitmo should be forced to live in Williamsport, PA.
4. The sheer thoughtlessness of having a 747 pursued (apparently) by a fighter over Manhattan around noon on a business day is so monstrous that I can’t comprehend the minds that thought, “Ok, no one will care.”
5. I can’t wait when a flyby of AF1 is done over DC and most importantly, the Pentagon. What fun!
6. One would almost ask why a “cell clump” would have a beating heart, but one’s still pretty baffled by that whole “Let’s fly a 747 really close to some skyscrapers. It’ll be a hoot!”
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/28 @ 12:29 pm #
“3. Williamsport, PA is one of the worst and crappiest places on earth. Persons released from Gitmo should be forced to live in Williamsport, PA.”
Oh, you know it.
Comment by ushie on 4/28 @ 12:49 pm #
I was forced to live there during some very grim years. Crappy weather, crappy buildings, crappy people. I think it violates the Geneva Conventions.
Comment by Letitbeme on 4/28 @ 1:08 pm #
All this talk of polling in a thread about planes buzzing the NYC skyline isn’t as incongruent as it seems.
Cosmo-Libs tell the pollsters they don’t like “harsh interrogations” of known terrorists and
put terrorism way down on the list of important issues.
That’s what their mouths say.
Their sphincters disagree.
Comment by Sdferr on 4/28 @ 1:11 pm #
I think I made that very point round about 23 hrs ago, there Letitbeme.
Comment by Jim in KC on 4/28 @ 1:46 pm #
Waxing KSM’s mustache would have caused him more actual pain than waterboarding…
A lot of salons would have to go down if we declared that to be torture, though.
Comment by Makewi on 4/28 @ 2:52 pm #
It’s important, I think, to always use the names of those that were waterboarded so that those who seek to make it a discussion about an abstract evil are forced to confront the actual facts of the situation. The average person is not inclined to believe that using this on KSM brings us to his level or is in any way equal to plotting and helping to carry out mass murder and terrorism.
Torture is wrong. Torturing KSM should get you free cupcakes for life.
Comment by Letitbeme on 4/28 @ 3:05 pm #
@Sdferr
Yah. But you didn’t say “sphincter,” so there!
Comment by Sdferr on 4/28 @ 3:14 pm #
Heh, got me there for sure. And sphincter is exactly the elemental sort of term of description the Obamians ought to attempt to understand, if that is, they would choose to understand in full the implications of human nature. Guessing, they won’t bother, ’cause they think they’ve already got it down pat, as witness the flyover from hell. (Though I still think somebody in the White House may have had a clue, perhaps a low level military attaché).
Comment by McGehee on 4/28 @ 3:31 pm #
Arlen Sphincter?
Comment by Sdferr on 4/28 @ 3:44 pm #
There is a terrible amount of bloodshedding waiting to be done, not here in the USA we hope (though our enemies certainly want it that way and will work to achieve it), but out across the wide world, war is burning still beneath the ashes of yesterday’s fire, ready to take on any new fuel and burst out again. Americans don’t like to look at the fact of violence as a permanent part of the human condition, they prefer to pretend we can make it go away once, for all, and peace will reign supreme, such silly hedonists are we. And so our war awaits our attention. And it will come, awful as always, not to be wished or ignored away. There is killing to do. Chances are we’ll have to be killed first again in order to remember. Shame.
Comment by B Moe on 4/28 @ 7:42 pm #
Yet you continue to post.
Comment by Rusty on 4/28 @ 8:32 pm #
#207
What profits a man to gain the world, if he should lose his soul?
Aren’t you muslim?
Jesus was referring to a rich man.
Define “war”.
Comment by Joe on 4/28 @ 9:57 pm #
Worth a peek.
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Comment by B Moe on 4/29 @ 5:05 am #
By the way, nishi, by your own definition water boarding could not be torture. Water boarding works by making the person fear they are drowning, how would that work if they wish they were dead?
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