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Comparable Civilians? [Dan Collins]

Another grim milestone:

Stressed by war and long overseas tours, U.S. soldiers killed themselves last year at the highest rate on record, the toll rising for a fourth straight year and even surpassing the suicide rate among comparable civilians.

Why, I wonder? Is there anything about military deployment that’s particularly dangerous, potentially traumatic?

Don’t worry, though. I’m sure the stimulus package will prevent civilian deaths from rising to meet them. I think military folk are probably a little more straightforward about their suicides than most people, though.

Here’s a German billionaire who couldn’t cope with hundreds of millions of euros in losses. I’m not a psychologist, but I’d say he might have lost some perspective.

78 Replies to “Comparable Civilians? [Dan Collins]”

  1. router says:

    “Stressed by war and long overseas tours, U.S. soldiers killed themselves last year at the highest rate on record, the toll rising for a fourth straight year and even surpassing the suicide rate among comparable civilians.”

    Comparable ex pats in war zones?

  2. Semanticleo says:

    “Why, I wonder? Is there anything about military deployment that’s particularly dangerous, potentially traumatic?”

    Jesus Harold Christ on rubber crutches, are you attempting the chronic ironic for Ripley’s, or are you an educated nothing?

    WTF is your military record? Try standing on THAT.

  3. router says:

    “WTF is your military record? Try standing on THAT.”

    A libtard in search of a victim.

  4. B Moe says:

    Officials expect the deaths to amount to a rate of 20.2 per 100,000 soldiers, which is higher than the civilian rate…

    My God, that is almost as high as food processors and doctors.
    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1588/what-occupation-has-the-highest-suicide-rate

  5. router says:

    Obama – ChickenHawk.

  6. router says:

    What’s the suicide rate of the MSM?

  7. Semanticleo says:

    I’m guessing it’s ‘educated nothing’.

    ‘It’s a crime to waste an education’.

  8. B Moe says:

    Coherency is a wonderful thing, ‘cleo, you should try it sometime.

  9. Semanticleo says:

    i hear crickets ‘chirping’.

  10. router says:

    “i hear crickets ‘chirping’.”

    See a Doctor.

  11. Jeffersonian says:

    The 20 year-old brother of the school nurse at my wife’s school killed himself today. I just don’t get it.

  12. wondering says:

    The real threat to the military psyche remains the hairbrained left insisting that the efforts are in vain.
    A swine like Murtha can say anything, however false, yet continue to win election and embarrass the country.

  13. B Moe says:

    Prolly disappointed in Obama, Jeffersonian.

  14. Bob Reed says:

    Playing the chickenhawk card Semanticleo? That’s soooooo passe…

    What is your military record?

    Fighting 84, “Jolly Rogers”, was involved in Deset Storm. We flew CAP in Iraq, initially near the Iranian border and then later near Baghdad. But that action was the blink of an eye compared to what our troops endure today. I blame that in part on the reduction of the troop levels as part of President Clinton’s peace dividend; curiously enough the same instrument that led to the decommisioning of VF-84…

    I can’t imagine the struggles that the troops endure today; especially the Army and Marine units. They have my eternal admiration, gratitude, and support for their sacrifices in the name of our freedom. The conventional military ground forces need to be expanded by at least 10 or 12 activedivisions in order to deal with the brush-war type conflicts that they may be called upon to engage in. That would help take the pressure off of our heroic young patriots…

    I’m completely in favor of stepping up the psychiatric analysis and treatment of our troubled warriors. But we also must increase the size of our active military; both to take the pressure off of the reservists as well as decrease the frequency of their combat deployments…

    It would be interesting though, to see WWII data. The deployments were very long, and the stress levels high as the enemy was skilled and, in the European theater, very well equipped. But what may be more important, the war and warriors were not being criticized constantly, nor cast as civilian losers, criminals or malcontents.

    I wonder if that data is available..?

  15. Eric says:

    “Comparable civilians?”

    That’s a key phrase. Articles about a military suicide “epidemic” have been all over the press since 2001. In most cases they’re bullshit owing to ignorance (I think) on the part of the writer. You can’t compare a group of mostly young men to the broader society when it comes to suicide – young men always off themselves more than women and older men, military or no.

    So I take the phrase to mean the military suicide rate is (for the first time) actually higher than the civilian population adjusted for age and sex. But if they explain all that in the article they’ll be tacitly admitting they’ve been sort of lying all these years.

  16. parsnip says:

    The real threat to the military psyche remains the hairbrained left insisting that the efforts are in vain.

    Yeah, that’s it, wondering.

    What’s an I.E.D. attack compared to a Janeane Garofalo monologue?

  17. Sdferr says:

    Probably less confusing, given that the IED attack comes from a known enemy and the other attack from a fellow citizen.

  18. router says:

    Obama Lied Pakis Died.

  19. Bob Reed says:

    Nice one, Sdferr…

  20. B Moe says:

    What’s an I.E.D. attack compared to a Janeane Garofalo monologue?

    Just words?

  21. Synova says:

    “So I take the phrase to mean the military suicide rate is (for the first time) actually higher than the civilian population adjusted for age and sex. But if they explain all that in the article they’ll be tacitly admitting they’ve been sort of lying all these years.”

    That’s my take on it, too.

    We’ve been hearing about this for years while the suicide rate was below the civilian rate.

    The suicide rate for women was higher, but I don’t think that attempts were higher, just successes… which makes sense.

  22. happyfeet says:

    oh. So 999,979.8 out of every 100,000 soldiers are hanging in there. Okey dokey then. Unless you’re the .8 I guess.

  23. happyfeet says:

    oh. pretend I got that first number right. Y’all would do that for me, no?

  24. Big D says:

    Here is my take on the suicide rate. It used to be that the weak were weeded out on boot camp. Boot camp was made very stressful and painful with the idea that if you were going to break down, you would do it there. These people could then be sent on their way without doing any real harm to themselves or their mission. When I went through boot camp we lost roughly 10% to “Good of the service.” Over the last few decades, boot camp has been reduced to a physical training program resulting in people in good physical shape, but not necessarily mentally ready to handle the stresses of combat. Drill instructors are not allowed to touch recruits, swear, or otherwise make them uncomfortable. The result is that people that should have been eliminated are not. They are given their uniform and sent to the field.

  25. happyfeet says:

    That’s an interesting point, Big D. The AP overlooked that somehow.

  26. Bob Reed says:

    Good observation BigD…

  27. N. O'Brain says:

    Comment by Semanticleo on 1/29 @ 7:33 pm #

    What was you MOS, semanstain?

    And….do you speak English?

  28. N. O'Brain says:

    “Comment by router on 1/29 @ 7:44 pm #

    What’s the suicide rate of the MSM?”

    Not high enough.

  29. N. O'Brain says:

    “Comment by Semanticleo on 1/29 @ 7:51 pm #

    i hear crickets ‘chirping’.”

    Next up, the demon voices will be telling you to kill yourself.

    Say, you’re not a journalist are you?

  30. N. O'Brain says:

    Consider the last question withdrawn. Journalists have to speak English.

  31. N. O'Brain says:

    Comment by Bob Reed on 1/29 @ 8:04 pm #

    VF-84, The Jolly Rogers.

    Proud, man, proud.

  32. Big D says:

    N’O

    I saw your post a couple of days ago and I couldn’t respond as I was headed out the door. Your question was if I was sucking up to the Commandant.

    Whaaaa?

  33. cynn says:

    this is flat out ugly.

  34. N. O'Brain says:

    Comment by Big D on 1/29 @ 9:16 pm #

    A joke, pal.

    8th & I and all….

    My son is a Marine, so I take liberties.

  35. Bob Reed says:

    N. O’Brain,
    Your son is one of the many that we as a nation are now proud of. Keeping folks like ‘cleo and parsnip safe, so that they can snark about their sacrifices, and play the chickenhawk card when it suits their rhetorical purpose…

    My Wife and I have relatives in Iraq. I go to Mass daily and pray that the Lord see them all safely through their Valley of the Shadow of Death…

  36. Mr. Pink says:

    “Drill instructors are not allowed to touch recruits, swear, or otherwise make them uncomfortable. The result is that people that should have been eliminated are not. They are given their uniform and sent to the field.”

    You are not kidding me. I know alot of drills and they even give the kiddies freakin prozac now.

  37. Big D says:

    That’s what I had figured, N’O. I did meet P.X. Kelley and Al Gray once when I was there, but they would not be able to pick me out of a line up. Have you heard from your son and if so, how is he doing?

  38. Bob Reed says:

    Pink,
    You’re kidding about the prozac, right?

  39. Mr. Pink says:

    In basic I mean.

  40. Mr. Pink says:

    Bob no I am not. I was in a Drill unit for a couple of months and they were talkin about having a locked cabinet for that shit.

  41. cynn says:

    congrats on your ephemeral se4vice, KNOBrain.

  42. Mr. Pink says:

    Hey cynn I got a funny joke for you do you have email?

  43. Big D says:

    Pink,

    While that doesn’t surprise me, it does make me worry a bit. If you are going to break down when a Drill Instructor puts the brim of his campaign cover on the bridge of your nose, swearing to God that you are the biggest piece of filth that he has ever seen, you will break down when you hear the word “Incoming.” Prozac indeed!

  44. Mr. Pink says:

    I agree. None of the drills liked it either but their commanders wanted the numbers.

  45. Big D says:

    And while I am at it, why the hell do you say incoming? Everyone knows what the hell is about to happen. Better to say ” Get down and grab some dirt. Pray that you don’t die here today in this Godforsaken filthpit of a country and if it does happen, I hope it is a direct hit so that I am speeded on to the next world.” On second thought, that’s kind of wordy. Maybe “Incoming” works. Almost as dangerous as cat grooming.

  46. Bob Reed says:

    That’s mind-boggling Pink…

  47. Almost as dangerous as cat grooming.

    must be… RTO refuses to trim their claws. “Oh, maggie that’s your job… I can’t do it without losing significant amounts of blood.” and then he whines about how his arm is all torn up from demanding kittehs.

  48. Big D says:

    Maggie,

    You should just have the voodoo guy come over and trim the cat’s claws..”Kitteh, NOOOOO!”

  49. parsnip says:

    They’re furry devils I tells ya!

    Never turn your back on ’em.

  50. N. O'Brain says:

    ” Have you heard from your son and if so, how is he doing?”

    Not over the last week or so, but I read today that 3/8 lost 2 NCOs.

  51. Big D says:

    I had forgotten that he was in the 8th Marines. My Regiment, although I was 2/4. That was a “Bastard battalion” attached to the 8th Marines. 4th Marines had to burn their colors when Gen Wainwright ordered their surrender at Bataan. Once the colors are gone, there is no regimental command. The three battalions are now attached to other regiments. Too much history, sorry…

    Is he 0311?

  52. MAJ (P) John says:

    “WTF is your military record? Try standing on THAT.”

    Sure, Sem, I’ll go ahead and stand on my record. Joint Guard 1997, OEF 2004-2005, OIF 2007-2008.

    What was your point? What is your record?

  53. Big D says:

    Wasting your time, Major. Cleo wouldn’t know honor if it slapped him/her/it in the face.

  54. MAJ (P) John says:

    Honor? Is that what that was about?

    I simply don’t understand the point – I know, that happens often with that one. But is it that unless you have served and not killed yourself your opinion doesn’t matter? A kind of chickensuicidevictimhawk argument?

  55. Big D says:

    No, the point is that cleo will never know what it is to serve something larger than yourself. To him/her/it the military will always be something to be either pitied or vilified. Sad, but that is cleo.

  56. happyfeet says:

    It’s just journalism if you ask me.

  57. Chris S. says:

    Well, yeah, that’s been my experience with these “epidemics”- they don’t include statistics from the civilian population, and the last time I saw this kind of article (on “Japan Today”), the majority of the soldiers hadn’t even had their first tour yet.

    But, oh please, bring on the chickenhawk crap- like we’re supposed to be oh-so-proud of these left-wing vets after they return and brag about how they “were forced by Uncle Sam” to gang-rape Vietnamese or Iraqi women & kids and use POWs as target practice.

    “Live by Winter Soldier, die by Winter Soldier”…

  58. Phil says:

    Support for economic stimulus plan down to 42 percent.

    O!NOES!!!111!!!ELEVENTY

    But don’t forget thor, parsnip, cleo and crew. Your party OWNZ this bill. That whole accountability thing is gonna be a bitch.

  59. happyfeet says:

    Why do they call it an economic stimulus plan? That’s misleading I think.

  60. happyfeet says:

    Suppose the economic recovery plan changed so that it included tax cuts only and there was no new government spending. Would you favor or oppose an economic recovery plan that included tax cuts only?

    43% Favor

    39% Oppose

    18% Not sure

    Baracky should give being president of for real America a shot I think.

  61. Log Cabin says:

    I thought the One was going to end these senseless wars! Next thing you know, I’m not getting my promised tax cut!

    Waaaaaahhhh!

  62. Phil says:

    Why do they call it an economic stimulus plan? That’s misleading I think.

    ACORN Full Employment Act of 2009 didn’t poll well.

  63. NC says:

    Greetings from the gulf. I hope all of you are well. Finally figured this damn thing out.anyway, I’ll say this. I have seen people die in violent ways and I’ve seen people wasted away by disease. I’ve seen people who did not want to die, go. If you have so little regard for your own life, then the world is probably better off without you. If that sounds bad then so be it. I’ve known many that wanted to live. If you are willing to throw your life away without a fight, too bad.

  64. happyfeet says:

    In California if you overpaid your taxes you’re not getting a refund. That’s theft. As California goes, so goes that puerile dirty socialist jug-eared dork what walks into windows to where you have to put orange reflective tape on them so he doesn’t hurt his dumb ass and make a spectacle of himself.

  65. Phil says:

    In California if you overpaid your taxes you’re not getting a refund. That’s theft. As California goes, so goes that puerile dirty socialist jug-eared dork what walks into windows to where you have to put orange reflective tape on them so he doesn’t hurt his dumb ass and make a spectacle of himself.

    That’s not really fair. I’ve seen birds fly in windows on several occasions in my life.

    Then again, birds are pretty dumb.

  66. parsnip says:

    But don’t forget thor, parsnip, cleo and crew. Your party OWNZ this bill. That whole accountability thing is gonna be a bitch.

    So the Republicans own the recession and the Democrats own the recovery, Philo?

    Sounds like a deal.

  67. Joe says:

    Stressed by war and long overseas tours, U.S. soldiers killed themselves last year at the highest rate on record, the toll rising for a fourth straight year and even surpassing the suicide rate among comparable civilians.

    I am calling b.s. on these statistics. I do not trust the Associated Press on this. Last year Michael Medved looked at them and discovered when you considered the actual statistics of the suicides in the military (who are mostly males, mostly single, in their twenties) and compared them against the general population of the same statistics the rates were considerably LOWER for the military suicide rates.

    Obviously a rate going up is a bad thing, but to suggest the military has some abnormally high rate of suicide compared to the general population is often done for motives other than reporting the news.

  68. Log Cabin says:

    Feets, I believe that should be “so goes the puerile dirty socialist jug-eared dork and the first chewbacca and their brainless, spineless, souless syncophants.”

    Credit where credit is due…

  69. NC says:

    This was more fun last time. I’ll check back in from time to time. Hope all of you are well.

    Mel

  70. Jim Treacher says:

    So the Republicans own the recession and the Democrats own the recovery, Philo?

    If you actually believe this thing is going to do what they say it’s going to do. If it does, congrats in advance.

  71. N. O'Brain says:

    “Comment by Jim Treacher on 1/30 @ 4:15 am #

    So the Republicans own the recession and the Democrats own the recovery, Philo?

    If you actually believe this thing is going to do what they say it’s going to do.”

    He does believe it because it’s a retarded marmoset.

    And, no, socilaist policies always fail.

    Call it the Obama-Pelosi-Reid Depression Act of 2009.

  72. Carin says:

    My bil is getting a 10-day leave in a few weeks, so I’ll watch out for signs of depression. He doesn’t seem depressed, he’s going to first go skiing out west for a few days, and then come spend five days with us and the brats while we attempt to enjoy the best skiing Michigan has to offer ;) He said he’s gonna buy the kids a PS3, so when we sit around the condo at night they’ll have something to do. Or, you know, if one of us breaks a leg.

    He wanted to take a leave early, so he’d get back in time for fighting season in Afghanistan.

  73. Kirk says:

    If you want to make sure your bil stays happy while here in Michigan, make sure the local news is turned off.

  74. Carin says:

    Oh, Michigan is FUN. Monica Conyers is going down, all the while the national media broadcasts John Conyers blatherings about investigations into Bush with no mention that his own wife took bribes from a sludge company. Ironic, no?

    It’s a hoot.

  75. slackjawedyokel says:

    #70:
    Mel, Stay safe, and thanks for what you are doing for all of us. Hope you will check in whenever you can.

  76. Kirk says:

    John Conyers chucks a lot of rocks for a guy that lives in a paper thin glass house. At least his wife is a looker.

  77. Obstreperous Infidel says:

    “Mel, Stay safe, and thanks for what you are doing for all of us. Hope you will check in whenever you can.”

    Hear, Hear. Mel, take care and thanks again.

Comments are closed.