First, I bet Oliver Stone wishes just now he’d tempered the General’s portrayal in the disappointing W. Beyond that, though, why is there any surprise Powell would back Obama?
As I’ve been writing about for years now, contemporary progressives — either to separate themselves from “neocons” for electoral purposes (and so cynically) or because they truly believe in the foreign policy realism of Nixon, George H W Bush, 70s-era Kissinger, and the pre-911 George W Bush (which explains why many paleocons, for instance, increasingly support the foreign policy philosophy of the left) — have embraced a combination of America First isolationism (with respect to trade) and realpolitik, the offshoot of which is to “manage” the international scene, a philosophy that at one point drove liberals apoplectic (how dare we care about our “own interests” when others are being oppressed!), suggesting as it did that the US could (and should) work to maintain a balance with the enemy we know rather than chance the outcome of attempts to liberate the oppressed, and perhaps end up with enemies we can’t control.
From this philosophy came, naturally, certain strategies, including installing and/or supporting leaders in foreign countries that were amenable to US interests, at least on some level — puppet governments or governments with whom we’d struck backroom deals in which we agreed to stay out of their internal affairs in exchange for promises that US interests would be left alone.
These deals were similar in kind to those struck by, for instance, Italy with Palestinian terror groups who desired free reign to go after Jews.
That the American progressive has followed the international left into the muck of such pure Machiavellian power politics is hardly surprising; after all, power is the basis for their entire ideological worldview, with control by an elect class of bureaucrats the end game.
But what is interesting is that the American New Left, who at one point despised the “liberal bourgeois,” with their quaint Enlightenment notions about speech and consensus, debate and logic, has been able, through guile and manipulation, to take over the Democratic Party, a party who once held the foreign policy ideals of JFK, eg, — and that continues to use him as a party icon, even as he would today no doubt find himself on the other side of the political divide.
Which leads me to believe that, for many of the 60s and 70s radicals, the fight they claimed to be undertaking was never really over specific international policy (at least, not after a point) as it was over who controls the power necessary to decide who and what to fight, and who dictates the rules for engineering society. No wonder, then, that Bill Ayers, eg, has worked to turn education into indoctrination camps: part of the natural progression of the strategy by which to take and keep control.
Structurally, there is very little different between the paleocon agenda and that of the progressives save that the paleocons appear more nativist, while the progressives speak in a one-worldism that can only come about through a spread of authoritarian rule. But authoritarianism at home — when coupled with such a spread elsewhere, creates the preconditions for such a one world collective.
Colin Powell is — and always has been — a “realist,” and as such was of course at one time despised by the left precisely for his Nixonian realism. Interestingly, though, he was, at a later point, despised by the left for just the opposite: being a lackey of the “neocons,” an Uncle Tom, as Harry Belafonte called him, for his having ostensibly backed the Bush plan to take a new tack to cripple asymmetrical terrorism by spreading the seeds of Enlightenment values and freedom to countries long under the thumb of dictators and tyrants.
From what I can see, Powell has remained consistent as a GHW Bush / Nixon-era Kissinger / Scowcroft realist. Progressives, disguised as liberals, have moved into that camp, from a foreign policy perspective, marking them as closer to Nixon than to JFK.
The neocons, on the other hand — or many of those who today are labeled “right wingers” — would have found themselves defined out of liberalism, even though they continue to adhere to its principles in a way that progressives do not and (harkening back to the New Left’s attacks on the bourgeois liberals) never have.
Ronald Reagan famously noted that he didn’t leave the Democratic Party, but rather the Democratic Party left him.
Today, it seems, progressives would be more at ease calling themselves Nixonian Republicans than Reagan Democrats, just as they’ve turned “neocon” into a dirty word while salvaging the moribund dregs of paleoconservatism, repackaging them, and presenting them in a shiny new package of progressivism, America Firstism, and compassionate nanny-statism.
Colin Powell, insofar as he would back a “realpolitik” foreign policy, would naturally fall in line with someone like Obama, at least on his philosophy for dealing with international affairs.
To fall in line with him on domestic affairs, however, speaks to a kind of classism and elitism that many country club Republicans, we’re now seeing, have long been cultivating — secure as they must be in the knowledge that, while Obama may work to control the lives of the proles, good Chicago-style politics dictates that as President, he must keep the fat cats on both sides of the aisle happy as a trade-off for consolidating his power. Pundits get to play debating games unbothered by real reform — and they can effectively marginalize those not in their class so as to remain ostensible spokesmen for their charges.
We have reached that dangerous place where elective representative politics has become about the will to power, no more and no less — and the electorate, the progressives believe, have been primed to roll belly up (the bulk of them willingly, with their eyes glazed over in rapture of Obamamania), and accept the political paradigm shift from self-sufficiency to nannystate, cradle-to-grave “protection.”
Meanwhile, it is up to “conservatives” — many of whom after 911 received that designation once they recognized the progressive strain on the left vying to take over the Democratic Party, and they began their vocal dissent — to agitate for a return to Constitutional principles and the classical liberalism upon which this country must necessarily run.
If indeed a civil war is coming — bloodness though it might likely be — I suspect that it will happen along federalist lines, with logistical reshuffling and an insistence on governance by the consent of the governed.
A good first start would be to run a candidate who actually believes in such Constitutional principles. And it is becoming increasingly unlikely that we’ll find one of those from the ranks of the political class — and, as the treatment of Sarah Palin by both “liberals” and certain “conservative pundits” has shown us, going outside the ranks of the “acceptable” political class is a recipe for vulgar classism and a bubbling up of a little-discussed reality of our political culture: ordinary people, even those who have risen on the basis of hard work, perseverance, and common sense, need not apply.
Good points all, Jeff.
And I admire how much you’ve thought this through. My reaction to the Powell endorsement was more like, “Yeah, and in other news, my husband rolled over and farted in his sleep last night.”
Barack and Colin, as wholesome as apple pie. Anyone read the Obama is a hyp-mo-tist material? I’m off to worship at my master’s shrine now.
I thought that the Left thought Gen. Powell was a lying bloodthirsty warmonger.
That was sooooo last week, JD. Down the ol’ memory hole with it!
hi all –
back from the hospital, everything went ok. tired and drugged up though.
Mmmm drugged up! Hope you’re feeling better. I feel a tad dragged, up myself.
oh and good post jeff. not enough people will defend the neocon premise anymore, and it would be a shame to let it die on the vine like that.
urthshu – Good to hear. If you are all drugged up, would you mind translating some of SemenKKKleo’s comments for us?
I was at the local watering hole friday night, when some of the local Dem operatives started toasting – “To Barrack Obama, the next President of the United States!”
I let it slide. The first five times. Then it got annoying.
Number six, I offered my own toast: “God help us all!”
Ye olde Democrits were not amused. The offered to help me leave. I requested them to try.
After that, things got kinda nasty.
well said.
I think Powell’s beef with Bush (and thus drift to Obama) is two-fold: He pounded the table and got international support for the Iraq war, which has turned out to be a multi-year freak show. As he envisioned it, there were nukes there. For him, he reckons he got played for the sap, albeit one with a lot of utility to Rumsfeld et al.
he was tempermentally and intellectually not inclinded to grasp the metaphysical aspects of the Iraq war thesis–a liberated and Free Iraq, with a parlimentary government would be a massive bulwark against Iranian (and Saudi) expansionism–once things went south there.
actually, he was dubious about Iraq from the begining. And then, in a classic court reshuffling, got his ass iced, more or less. Which always sours one against a boss.
It takes a lot to make me feel for an uber-insider careerist like Powell, who treasures his connections to Bob Woodward as much as his acces to the oval office.
and you cant deny that this is just the latests bit of “Im a former republican” theater.
that said, he was right and Bush, so far, has been wrong.
a good day for Obama, natch.
Good days are for Obama too? You all are screwed.
It depresses me to think that our country seems to be rolling over for bread and circuses, for goodies from Obama’s promised candy bag. Looking at Europe, I’m not sure what it would take to bring them out of their slide into increased socialism, and I can see us following behind, Constitution be damned. So I’ll curl up in the fetal position for a few minutes, then get up and stare at RealClearPolitics’ electoral map from 1980 and think about fiscal conservatism and morning in America and how we didn’t always try to bribe ourselves with our own money, as de Tocqueville put it.
Fuck Colin Powell’s endorsement, I’ll only vote for a candidate if Ted “Motor City Madman” Nugent approves.
Exact opposite way around — Bush was right, Powell was wrong, going all the way back to the Gulf War. If Powell had his way, Saddam would be alive, ruling Iraq, and likely out from under sanctions.
Powell just can’t stand being proven wrong. That’s one reason he let the slanders against the Bush administration stand when he knew damned well who had mentioned whats-her-name to the press.
Powell was never a republican, so he can’t really be a former republican. Powell is now and always has been a Powellicrat. He tunneled under Pres. Bush from the beginning of the opening of the Iraqi theater of war. Powell’s behavior in the Plame affair alone — nevermind Powell’s chief of staff attacking the Vice-President and Defense Sec. as a cabal bent on “usurping” the government (in Wilkerson’s mind, the department of state) — showed Powell’s true colors vis a vis the Bush Admin.
Who will claim credit for the great success as Iraq with time shows undeniable progress? Watch for Powell to step forward to re-write the media’s bullshit history in order to get his share of the glory. Patience, people, all in good opportunistic time.
Maybe that’s Powell’s angle. The media will give O! any credit for Iraq victory when that time comes, and maybe CP is angling for an adviser position so he can “get on the right side of history.”
… or the left side of history, as the case may be.
[…] why didn’t they just shut up and listen to the “elites“? Posted by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates @ 6:38 pm | Trackback Share […]
mcgruder
point of order, maybe, in that the ‘multi-year freakshow’ was always expected to be that, considering how an anti-insurgency war is fought. that was never adequately explained, to the admin’s discredit. if more people understood the strategy they wouldnt be as upset about the time involved i think
[…] Jeff Goldstein’s piece on Colin Powell and Barack Obama that is worth your consideration: Colin Powell is  and always […]
With respect, Urthshu, I believe the president was quite up front about the challenge we faced and the burden we were assuming.
However, he can’t go on TV every single night, nor the well of the Senate or the podium of the House, and rebut defeatists, saboteurs, traitors, and the rest of the disloyal opposition and MSM that began preaching defeat before the dead were fully removed from the WTC, Pentagon, and Pennsylvania sites.
Oh, and it’s not a “bloodness” civil war that’s about to happen.
Not nearly.
I buried my heart at bloody knee.
I doubt if this country will ever support a long-term, low level, counterinsurgency strategy. We’re too used to maps showing the Nazis being pushed back, or our advance across the Pacific. Couple that with a vocal group ready to point at every casualty as evidence of the failure of imperialism and leaders who couldn’t talk their way out of a speeding ticket, let alone defend their policy, and lots of voters will say the hell with it, bring ’em home.
Really? What makes you say that?
AJB
Whos taking shots at the McCain-Palin bus?
http://www.sacunion.com/mark/?p=67
on a macro-level-we all see the”Colin Powells”- in our own work area/jobs-
“kiss-asses” is the phrase-I believe
I like to call ’em smootchy-but now it will be “high yellow smootchy”
followed by kissing sounds
oh. feel better urthshu. I’ve missed a lot of stuff I think past few days. Colin Powell. He won’t be held accountable for this socialist dipshit and I think he kinda knows that. If he weren’t such a coward he might could be finishing his second term and not be reduced to waving his racial solidarity Baracky pom-poms on the tv. Baracky can’t rehabilitate you, Colin. Sweet glorious socialisms can’t rehabilitate you, Colin. Your batshit crazy wife isn’t gonna help matters any. You are teh feckless. Embrace it.
Ur—point taken. I voted for the guy twice, am a pretty serious news consumer and had no fucking idea this was going to be the mid-east reprise of the British in Malaysia in the 50s, except a lot, lot bloodier.
Rob C–yes and no. Youre right about Saddam being happy, fat, murderous and alive, but we sold the war on the thought and belief that the prick was back in the WMD game. Actually, because he carried a lot of credibility in foreign capitals, Powell sold it.
and when it turned out to be wrong, whatever you make of it, he never recovered any trust in Bush.
I agree, BTW, that a dude like Powell would never have gone for the surge. It just boils down to whether Iraq makes it. and by make it, i mean really does make it. Turning into a larger Jordan or some such. Not exactly Denmark, but something where bombs dont go off regularly either.
Im pulling for Bush and Iraq myself, but then he has given me few reasons, ever, to have confidence in him.
bottom line–Bush has so destroyed the GOP that he has allowed it to be de rigeur to do this.
It didn’t hurt that those foreign capitals believed it, too. Some of them even supplied us with the information about it.
*shrug*
The whole Plame-game settled my opinion of Powell. He’s an opportunist, only out for himself. His opinion means as much to me as AJB’s.
Hey, AJB, anyone committing or threatening violence should be prosecuted as the law allows, regardless of their political affiliation.
Now, let’s talk about the last eight years of assassination porn the left’s churned out…
o hey, tmj.
i only meant that nobody could detail how the war was to be fought in any w3ay that could be heard and understood. counter- or anti-insurgencies just take longer than regular wars is what i mean.
ot to you:
finally got to take out that m44. real gomer pyle moment when i first shot it, like BOOM! and WELL, GAH-AH-AH-LEE!!!
people was a-skeered
mcgruder- not seeing how this has been ‘bloodier’. honestly. its possible, but i don’t see it that way, esp. given casualty rates over time, which are decidedly low compared to other wars of the same scale. of course, i am only looking at our casualties, not theirs
Jeff G.:
The progressive left does not engage in ‘America First Isolationism’. It looks the same, but it is not the same.
America First Isolationism wants to isloate America to protect it from the world; the progressive left wants to quarantine America to protect the world from America.
That is a very big difference in intent and in basic belief about what America was, is, and should be.
#2 ducktrapper:
That should be ‘off to worship at my Obamaltar’.
Heh.(tm)
Well put Jeff G,
Palin is the first major party politician since Reagan to not have been part of either the Washington cadre or a member of the elite academic intelligentsia.
That is part of the reason she is so refreshing; lacking the often brooding double-think tendencies and the smug self-assuredness of her intellectual credentials, she instead posesses a common sense outlook and everyday candor of expression that has been sorely lacking on the national scene…
I don’t buy into the fact that Dubya is an idiot, he just has a thick west Texas accent and a folksy manner that coastal elites can easily conflate with rube-ish stupidity. Perhaps despite his elite education, he is closer to Palin than to his collegues. And, if it weren’t for the MSM’s campaign to diminish him, simply for their own electoral purposes, he would enjoy a much greater popularity; in spite of the events of late…
Palin has a very plain spoken, Jacksonian or Truman-esque, appeal. She is precisely the type of citizen-stepped-forward leader that our Adams and Jefferson were referring to when they used the term aristoi…
Yes, I know, and I’ve discussed that many times. It boils down to the same or similar policy prescriptions, though, and so looks very much the same — and in effect it acts the same.
I wish I could include every post I’ve ever written on the subject on each new post I write on the subject so that I don’t have to respond to such corrections each time, but alas, that’s not to be.
Still, the archives are full of such distinctions.
“Palin has a very plain spoken, Jacksonian or Truman-esque, appeal. She is precisely the type of citizen-stepped-forward leader that our Adams and Jefferson were referring to when they used the term aristoi…”
Give me a break, she CAN’T EVEN DO A FREAKING PRESS INTERVIEW!
I’m 52, and I’ve never seen this happen in my lifetime… a comedic skit on SNL substitutes for a serious press inquiry into her philosophy and ideas.
I can’t imagine a person less suited to be a heartbeat away from the position of President.
From what little I’ve seen, she can’t even express herself in coherent sentences!
Just crazy.
David, your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
You’re a goofball. I like Governor Palin. Especially now that our economy could really use some good oil production jobs and some people in office what understand that socialism is retarded. Baracky wants to build windmills. Idiot. Gay-assed Harvard ponce.
Neocons have given us nothing but larger government, skyrocketing deficit, and a disturbing tendency towards Kleptocracy that cannot be ignored. Americans are finally waking up to this sham, particularly those of us conservatives who want a party that reflects true conservative values. Ridiculous statements about JFK aside, you’re correct that Neocon ideology is derivative of classic liberalism, particularly the ideals laid out by Woodrow Wilson.
The unfortunate state of American politics is that we have no party left that will curb foreign spending (or spending in general) and focus on domestic problems, or at the very least eliminate this grotesque taxpayer burden. 911 is hardly a justification for why such attitude is necessary, study the causes and it becomes rapidly evident that Neocon policies such as Reagan’s massive contributions to the ISI (funding Afghan “freedom fighters”) and Bush Sr’s little foray into Kuwait are the sort of endeavors that brought us here in the first place.
Neocons have done nothing but drag McCain down with them. McCain was an incredibly strong candidate with independents and fiscal (not social) conservatives when he started out. His campaign lacked funds yet he was able to defeat the “chosen” neocon kleptocrats like Romney rather easily. It’s become abundantly clear that conservatives and independents alike are desperate for a candidate that will pull us out of this cesspool. Obama isn’t winning because he’s Obama, he’s winning because he’s not a Neocon (see the inaccurate, yet effective McSame rhetoric).
The common particle in progressive physics is that of “revolution”.
Obama may not measure success by presiding over Utopia. I’ll go further – what profit for him to actually “achieve” anything, beyond the reins of power?
Are we agreed his political biography is much more a journey than a destination? Are we agreed his political platform is emphatically a dissimulation, give the persons and parties that have been his supporters so far?
This fiction of the transcendant, transformative political Light Bringer is convenient for media but is in now way, shape, or form substantiated by even the most cursory examination of his public record (that which hasn’t been sandbagged). But picture Barry O! the disaffected idealogue, the BLT pew warmer, the New Party/ACORN/CAC money man…now, with that impression, evaluate the O! being in position to throw the wrenches that destroy the establishment… that would be the prize a real revolutionary would seek, don’t you think?
The Democrats burned away any relationship to constitutional governance between defending Clinton in the nineties and after Florida in 2000. The level of corruption, incompetnece, and mendacity on display at all levels of incumbent Democrat house and senate denizens is accurately captured by the caricatures that are embodied in Reid and Pelosi; they are, folks, the UNreal deal where unstatesmanship and vacuity standards are set for public life.
The Republican party was the formal instrument used to socialize the basis of our economy; by doing Pelosi’s heavy lifting by ignoring the fact that their “aye” votes permitted Pelosi to provide cover for her “blue dog” democrats in the future, the Republicans have signaled their party incumbents (at a minimum) must be voted out, if not that the party is dead.
O! arrives at the brink of being in place to execute the grandest plan behind any counter culture rap and bong session: the ability to bring down the system; bring down the man.
Really – who expects a plan beyond that? Even the Alinskys and Lenins concentrated on the Revolution before they worried about the New Soviet Era.
I don’t think an O! win is near a given. But the darker the stories of ACORN fraud, foreign money, and activist hate become, the more I become convinced that he may not need to win to do just as much damage as if he had.
Florida went a long way to achieving the goal of delegitimizing the electoral process, at least in the eyes of the social retards who live on the Left. Ayer’s (and those like him) work in the schools since he put down the pipe bombs and picked up the text book contracts have also had far reaching and corrosive effects on society. And then there’s Hollywood, and the clown circus that has become the Washington political elite…
Pretty shaky edifices… edifi? Doesn’t much fucking matter in the end, does it?
I don’t fear a cleverly executed strategy of creeping totalitarianism. They’ve gotten what they wanted by that route. It’s the breakdown by design that is coming that pisses me off so.
Meh. More sanding. Have a fine one.
#36 Jeff G.:
I realize you know the difference.
The difference still has to be stated – while two groups may be temporarily allied, they do not believe the same.
I think James Lileks said it when the late sixties were when the over-class and the under-class allied against the middle. One said the middle was tacky, the other said it wasn’t authentic. The hurt delivered to the middle was the same, but for different reasons. Those reasons, intent, is important in how the response is to be given.
With respect to ‘Isolationism’ the intent has to be noted if the alliance is to be split – is America inherently good or inherently evil. On that rock the isolationist Alliance founders – if it is continuously brought up. It cannot be left unsaid at all or that will be ignored. Make them fight over first principles, break the alliance of convenince.
Don’t let it pass, ever.
#37 David:
In Re: Jeff at 36 supra.
I called Ms. Palin a Jacksonian a couple of Sundays back. Bill Kristol hit Peggy Noonan with that without using the word ‘Jacksonian’. It is part of our political history – the people versus the elites who know better. The elites never like that, and all the more reason to stick a thumb in their eye.
How could Oliver Stone’s “W” have been disappointing? Was he nice to George or something?
OT to urthshu:
“finally got to take out that m44. real gomer pyle moment when i first shot it, like BOOM! and WELL, GAH-AH-AH-LEE!!!”
That’s actually a pretty common reaction, sir. Way cool, isn’t it?
I am finishing up construction of a shooting bench out in my garage and fully intend to shoot myself into a recoil coma this weekend given even remotely workable weather conditions.
“Give me a break, she CAN’T EVEN DO A FREAKING PRESS INTERVIEW!”
Keep telling yourself that.
“. But the candidate who has been criticized for having a bunker mentality when it came to the national media can now lay legitimate claim to being more accessible than either Joe Biden or Barack Obama.
In the past two days alone, Palin has answered questions from her national press corps on three separate occasions. On Saturday, she held another plane availability, and on Sunday, she offered an impromptu press conference on the tarmac upon landing in Colorado Springs. A few minutes later, she answered even more questions from reporters during an off-the-record stop at a local ice cream shop.
By contrast, Biden hasn’t held a press conference in more than a month, and Obama hasn’t taken questions from his full traveling press corps since the end of September.”
Link
the more I become convinced that he may not need to win to do just as much damage as if he had.
I think a huge percentage of Baracky voters will just get on with their morally superior lives and the ones that don’t will spend the rest of their morally superior lives trying to recapture the glories of the summer of Hope and Change. Baracky will still just be a junior little Senator. He probably won’t try to out-demagogue his more senior senator pals, but it’ll be kind of interesting to see who among them is ambitious and clueless enough to want to try and tap into Baracky’s movement. “tap into.” “movement.” Apart from that Baracky’s media will just keep on keeping on I’d guess. America just wasn’t ready. Racist bastards.
[…] On Barack Obama and Colin Powell. What does this link have to do with Joe the Plumber? Well, read it and find […]
“I think a huge percentage of Baracky voters will just get on with their morally superior lives and the ones that don’t will spend the rest of their morally superior lives trying to recapture the glories of the summer of Hope and Change.”
If the long -in-the tooth Liberal Supreme Court Justices don’t immediately offer up their resignations, I’ll feel much better.
And other that, there’s not much to look forward in optimism…
Our federal government is broken. But that’s because our society is, as well. We are adrift, truly, from our founding principals. Oh, the sun will come up tomorrow, no shit, but the argument between federalism and state’s rights and individual rights is done.
We’ve chosen totalitarianism. Our congress and its antics of the last six weeks is an affirmation that GOVERNMENT is the alpha and omega of life in this country. That we have Barack the Drum Circle Construct in the loading tray is simply nuance.
A representative democracy does not live or die by the efforts of government. It is the people, living with minimal state interference and maximum liberty, that generates the wealth and security that people the world over are willing to die for in order to experience.
How long will media ride with the O!ne? Well, let’s see who falls off the tiger first. The reaction of the other enablers will tell us what we need to know then.
Just so ya know: Andy Jackson would’ve personally shot (or at least tried to) anybody who offered him one-tenth the personal contempt a modern President receives daily.
I’d pay money to see Cindy McCain give an NYT reporter a Liverpool Kiss.
Andy Jackson would have killed himself if he ever discovered himself deserving of the sort of contempt modern Presidents earn.
Regards,
Ric
#40
Decider. I find your ideas intriguing. How can I sign up for your newsletter?
Ken “Cakewalk” Adelman endorses Barack Obama…
Republican Ken Adelman, one of the architects of the Iraq war who once infamously claimed that the war Iraq would be a “cakewalk” – and who is widely hated by the far left for his “neocon” creds (more on that here) – endorsed Ba…
“That the American progressive has followed the international left into the muck of such pure Machiavellian power politics is hardly surprising; after all, power is the basis for their entire ideological worldview, with control by an elect class of bureaucrats the end game.”
One has to wonder how – after the current admin has concentrated more and more power in the executive that one can write this with a straight face. Maybe if you pointed out the the dems – the progressives’ representatives – allowed, aided and abetted that power grab, I’d see where you were coming from – becasue they did. I think Jeff really objects on the basis of the grabber of power, not the consolidation of power in gov’t per se. How else can one reconcile the perpetual schism I read here?
But I really like the argument that progressive foreign policy is hypocritical becasue a rejection of the current neocon pre-emption policy is somehow an endorsement of realpolitik, which progs always railed against. I mean, it is one or the other, right? There’s no way one might dislike puppet governments and REALLY dislike pre-emption – accept that there is, and this is a straw man built on false dilemna. Other than that it’s real pithy-like.
They’ve done much less so than previous administrations. Hell, many of the things that get whined about started under previous administrations.
And there’s been a hell of a lot less use of the executive to punish political opponents than there was under the Clinton administration. I’ll go out on a limb and say there’s been none, because if there had been, we’d never hear the end of it.
I had no idea Barney Frank and Jamie Gorelick were “neocons”. Or are you using some definition of “kleptocracy” you’ve made up on your own?
Seriously, look to the big government types, the lefties, to see the source of an ever-expanding government, ever-expanding spending, and out-and-out theft under the guise of governance.
Ordinary people need not apply. You’re damn right. Would you want an “ordinary person” performing neuro surgery on your brain if you needed it? Would you want a person who never had a passport before last year conducting foreign policy? Would you wan a guy who finished near last in his class running the country… or perhaps someone who graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard? We are the voters, we are the employers and yes… the job of POTUS is not an ordinary job for an ordinary person of ordinary intelligence.
Yes Colin Powell is a realist. Thank you for pointing that out.
So why must you chop the full statement quoted above to the absurd truncation and loss of meaning inherent in this (and that without the ordinary signs of ellipsis common to serious argument)?:
blockquote>Ordinary people need not apply.<
I submit you must because you wish to exhibit the very traits Jeff warns against, namely: “…power is the basis for their entire ideological worldview, with control by an elect class of bureaucrats the end game. […]”
And thank you for pointing that out.
apologies for the html fail there.
So why must you chop the full statement quoted above to the absurd truncation and loss of meaning inherent in this
Sorry, but some people no matter how hard they work will never have the aptitude to run a nation. Sarah Palin (who took what 6 years and five colleges to get a degree) is one of those people. I’m all for opening the presidency to people who are NOT from an elite class… like son’s of former presidents and admirals, for example.
Raging case of BDS…check.
You do not appear to me to be the least sorry.
Aptitude? What do you know of aptitude? Further, what do you know of Sarah Palin? Possession of a passport? You’ve got to do better than that. “Who took 6 years and five colleges to get a degree”? What difference does any of that make?
Opening the presidency? Have you ever read the Constitution of the United States? Where do you get the idea that you know to whom to “open” the office of President and to “whom” to deny it categorically?
You presume too much, I think, too much for yourself and too much for the candidate of your choice. That is your privilege to do, of course. But I do not find it at all impressive nor persuasive, if to persuade was your intent, rather than, say, merely demonstrating your progressivist bona fides.
If O! is so intelligent how come he could sit in a racist church for 20 years and just “not know”? Seems to me any normal person would be able to figure that one out the first time they heard “the white man invented AIDS to kill black people” or “Farahkan is a great man”.
So Palin took extra years and changed colleges. Maybe she had to take time off to earn her tuition. And maybe she decided a college wasn’t what she wanted so she changed. She didn’t march along to the four year, parents paying cadence. She’s out of the ordinary, there must be something wrong with her! It used to be liberals were the folks with the Question Authority bumperstickers.
Some people, it seems to me, prefer to go through life being lied to, Pink. I don’t know why that is, but it does seem to be a currently prevalent phenomenon for which there may be a multitude of causes and conditions, potentially as many and various as the people who demonstrate the trait.
oh yes, much better to graduate from Harvard and sit on your ass and not accomplish much but getting elected. If his opinion on when life begins is above his paygrade he’s got some problems.
Maggie, onward KKKristian soldiers
huh? you often don’t know what your own opinion is, regardless of the topic? well, okay then, carry on.
but he’s gonna be able to make decisions once he’s in office, I’m sure. never mind he hasn’t really had any practice in that area.
“Maggie, onward KKKristian soldiers”
Wouldn’t the racist be the one that sat there blindly listening to “white people invented AIDS to kill black people” while his kids were beside him for 20 years? No, I guess the only racists in your world are the ones that point out how that is wrong.
Here try this. Go around your workplace saying “Jews greed runs a world in need” or “Jews invented the AIDS virus to kill other races” and see how long it takes you to get an EEOC complaint or fired.
Mr. Pink verifies what this campaign has become… Hate vs Hope. All we hear from the right are reasons we need to hate the people who associated with people deemed as American haters, terrorists, etc… Instead of hearing any hope for improving America, we hear robo calls about associations with terrorist Bill Ayres, Wright, etc… All in attempt to divide Americans.
need another example, William? it took Obama a few days to figure out what exactly his position was on Russia’s invasion of Georgia. That’s some leadership!
William would it be safe to assume a 20 year dues paying member of the NRA supports gun rights or in your world would that just be guilt by association?
The hatred is someone that supports fomenting racial discord and racism. What “hope” do you see?
Oh, you want a leader who’ll react impulsively rather than study the situation. I get it.
oh, c’mon Mr. Pink, it’s all over his website!
By the way do you want to unite Americans with people like Bill Ayers and Wright? WTF does that mean??? People like that should be ostracised from society not given teaching positions or a pulpit with which to spew hatred and lunacy onto the next generation. Well O! obviously disagrees with me so you probably do too. In your world both of those characters are fine upstanding people.
um, who’s position did he come around to? hmmmmm? perhaps he should think a bit more before he makes a statement.. the first time.
The same hope that ALL 22 countries surveyed by the BBC, Pew and Gallup that unanimously want to Obama elected. A world with more partners and less conflict, less terrorism.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/09/2360240.htm?section=world
oh, subject change time. okay.
He says hope in speeches douchebag. In real life thru his actions he has supported racism thru his church and his donations to it for 20 years, helped a left-wing domestic terrorist indoctrinate children, and voted present on every major decision since he has been elected other than voted against medical care for children that survive a botched abortion attempt. He has done absolutely nothing other than blame the Bush admin for everything under the sun including the seas rising. That is not hope, and that is not anything that unites anyone other than people that hate Bush.
well, legislation moves fast, you wouldn’t want him to make an impulsive decision that might damage his election chances down the road.
Baracky did react impulsively William, you just fail to note it: he followed his pacifist instincts and called on “both sides”, the aggressor and the defender, to cease the use of violence.
Not a serious assessment of the situation, it seems to me.
Whereas McCain didn’t have need to further study the situation as he was already well familiar with it and could thus make his position clear from the outset.
What would William and his compatriots do without the word “hate”? Any opposition to them is characterized as “hate”. In their view, no one could possibly have a reasonable disagreement with them, they know there is malice which must be crushed. Which then justifies going after an opponent’s family members, work history, etc. A very useful word is hate.
By the way do you want to unite Americans with people like Bill Ayers and Wright?
How about uniting Americans by supporting someone who swindled Americans to the tune of over $123 million like Charles Keating?
How about uniting Americans by supporting someone who stood before her congregation and accepted blessings from a Kenyan witch hunter just 3 year ago? Accepted blessings of a pastor who called for the “invasion of religion” into gov’t, politics, and education while disparaging all other religions.
How about uniting Americans by supporting someone who has lived a life of privilege as the son of a former president or admiral, spending his entire life under the umbrella of socialized medicine?
How about uniting Americans by supporting someone who finished near the bottom of his graduating class (McCain – in case you didn’t know).
How about uniting Americans by supporting someone who calls Obama a socialist while practicing redistribution of wealth in Alaska – taking the oil profits, imposing a tax and kicking it back to Alaskans?
you have links to support your “facts” William?
I love this one. Most people get health insurance from their employers, but magically, when their employer is the government, it’s socialism.
you understand the concept of land rights and oil leases? oh, obviously not, what am I saying?
Sure. Doesn’t your google work? – this all common knowledge of the informed.
McCain – bottom 1% of his class. (894 of 899)
http://www.thestar.com/News/USElection/article/299874
okay, keep going….
Palin’s socialism
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080915/scheer
oh, also, my google works, but it comes up with some, uh, different talking points. But, keep up the good work William, you’re one of the best regurgitators we’ve had in a while.
the editor of Truthdig? really!? KARL ROVE WAS INDICTED!!!! another one of my favorites.
Palin’s Christian Dominionism
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10167
Video of Palin with the Kenyan witch hunter who prays to Jesus “to make a way for Sarah in the political arena” and to “bring finances her way.” Even more significant is that Murthee prays to God “invade seven areas of society” including politics, government and education.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ccmRuCpFjY
you’re not covering yourself in glory here, William. I suppose I should have specified, mainstream, somewhat more reliable links. not people that know sooper sekrit stuff.
Nice, smear (swiftboat) the author, don’t bother to investigate the facts… that’s the way republicans do business.
but Obama’s pastor of 20 years saying “God DAMN America” is no problem. am I right? religious rigor for thee, but not for me. it’s okay, I’ve got to go now. you have fun with your own reality.
GOP MO:
Admit nothing
Deny everything
Swiftboat the facts
okay, from your link. This is a tax? since when?
funny, if an oil co. or anyone else for that matter, leases my land, they give me money! fancy that!
so far as the African preacher goes. he was a guest, she was being courteous. I know that’s probably a foreign concept to you. but it happens, particularly among xtianists. or so I’ve been told.
Facts, William? You have yet to address forthrightly even one of the serious arguments made here, whether by JeffG or any of your interlocutors over the last hour.
There is an extensive archive available on this website as well. Were you to take the time to use that archive, you could learn that very nearly every issue you have raised (as distractions from your failures at argument) has been dealt with many times over.
Try it. You might learn something new. It could even prove to be more fun for you than spouting empty formulaic talking points.
[…] my post yesterday, I laid out, by way of a brief but broad historical overview, the reasons I believed that Colin […]
What if Obama stood before his congregation 3 years ago and accepted the hands on blessings of a Kenyan witch (Thomas Muthee) hunter that called for Jesus to bring him success and money? “To make a way” The same pastor that called for a religious invasion of politics, education and gov’t. What would you be saying about this?
The difference here is that Obama has thoroughly denounced Wright while Palin publicly credited the witch hunter for her success!!
Yes, Palin credited the Kenyan witch hunter for her success. What would you be saying if Obama had done this? What would you be saying if Obama’s teen daughter got knocked up? What would you be saying if Obama had been a supporter of the Keating 5 that swindled Americans to the tune of $123 million? I don’t hear too many hate filled robo calls about these issues.
“The difference here is that Obama has thoroughly denounced Wright while Palin publicly credited the witch hunter for her success!!”
Wow Palin said that one? Dude were the hell you got that Kosland?
Here I will totally buy your arguments and vote for O! if you can prove to me that it would be OK with the majority of Dems and yourself if McCain was a member of a church for 20 years full of white people with youtube videos available where the preacher was caught on video tape “Blacks invented the AIDS virus to kill white people” and “Jews greed runs a world in need”. If you can convince me of that then hey I will willingly pull the lever for Obama.
http://timesonline.typepad.com/uselections/2008/09/palin-linked-el.html
Time for a topic change William.
Running while pooping on the carpet is what you do best.
Something I guess you wouldn’t read in your Drudge bubble. It never ceases to amaze me how sheltered from reality conservatives are…. don’t even know widely reported facts.
Mr. Pink, forget picking up the turdlets, time to smack him on the nose with a newspaper and throw out the house.
“it’s” not interested in arguing anything.
William,
Thanks for the drive by diarrhoea. Now be gone.
Shoot, there’s even video of Palin crediting the witch doctor! I wonder how few of you knew that John McCain finished in the bottom 1% of his Annapolis class, was a reckless pilot that lost 5 planes, and likely contributed to the fire on the USS Forestal that killed 124 soldiers? Probably not many. But you know all about Rev Wright and the scary black muslim terrorist running for president named Barack HUSSEIN Osama
It is a significant fact here, Pink, that this wasn’t merely a case of “caught on videotape” — as though the “catching” might have been inadvertent — rather, these tapes were sold proudly, as compilations of the “best” sermons Rev. Wright had to offer.
Which fact, I think, can prove to be a reinforcement to your argument.
Sarah Palin’s pastor “believes the end times are near” and believes that Alaska will “serve as an end times refuge” for Americans. Palin was quoted to have said she thinks she’ll see the return of Jesus in her lifetime. How would you like a person with these beliefs with their finger on the nuclear button? Someone like President Palin.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10167
I am still waiting to hear her or her churches racism. You got a link that?
Wanting religion to take over American society isn’t bad enough? Wanting to prepare for the “end times” is not even worse? Believing that supernatural witch hunter helped her get elected isn’t bad enough? Stand and being prayed upon by a pastor who denounces all religions except his own isn’t bad enough?
I guess if you’re a christian dominionist you’d have no problem with that. You could learn something but getting to know some people who are different from you.
Colin Powell gave a passionate defense of Obama and Muslim Americans citing a Muslim American soldier that gave his life in Iraq. Regarding the “Muslim Obama” – Powell said:
“Well the correct answer, he is not a Muslim. He’s a Christian, he’s always been a Christian. But the really right answer is ‘what if he is?’ Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no, that’s not America.†– Colin Powell, 10/19/08
Well if you got nothing against muslims then wtf you got against Christians. I am not one but I have read the Bible and last time I checked it did have a book called Revelations in which Jesus returns to the earth. Show me where in there it says white people invented AIDS or that white greed runs the earth and I will honestly agree with everything else you say.
“Wanting religion to take over American society isn’t bad enough?”
Well I took it as they wanted to spread their religion and have it influence our society. If you want to talk about religion taking over society you would have to look at the ME. If Palin as govenor had tried to instigate teaching programs that shied away from teaching math and science in favor of pushing religious doctrine you would have a point. That was O! and his buddy Ayers though with socialism.
Powell’s very use of the “he’s a muslim” red-herring ought to make your skeptical sense of fairness come to life, there, William. That is, if you had one. But you appear not to have, giving Powell a pass instead. Ah well, choices, choices.
Honestly though equating someones church with having radical beliefs, even if they are faith healing or some crazy snake biting crap is not in the same league or comparible at all to out and out racist doctrine. If her preacher got up and rolled his eyes up in his head and started saying “I am God” while dancing to 70’s porn music that is not anywhere near as offensive to anyone with any sort of moral compass as “the Jews greed runs the world and whitey invented AIDS to kill us”.
Christians are nice people I think, mostly. This is one way they are different from stupid socialists I think.
William is funny. True believers who are unwilling to question their own assumptions often are.
I mean globalresearch.ca? That’s some funny shit right there.
OMG! cause pastor’s nevar do that!!!!
please show an example of how Palin, as mayor or governor has tried to force her religion on anyone.
Just a minor point william, but the fire on the Forrestal started when a rocket hit the aircraft McCain was in. He did not “contribute” to it. I saw the film at least ten times when I worked at a Navy shipyard. You can see it also-try Youtube. If you’re that careless with easily verifiable matters, why should anyone take you seriously on others?
“Surviving crewmen and those who investigated the Forrestal fire case reported that McCain deliberately ‘wet-started’ his A-4E Skyhawk to shake up the guy in the F-4 Phantom behind his A-4. ‘Wet-starts’, done to shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft.
134 sailors were killed on the USS Forrestal in 1967.
It is believed by many crewmen and investigators that John McCain deliberately ‘wet-started’ his A-4E to shake up the guy in the plane behind his A-4. ‘Wet-starts’ shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft.
In McCain’s case, the ‘wet-start’ apparently ‘cooked off’ and launched the Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that touched off the explosions.
‘Wet starting’ was a common practice among young ‘hot-dog’ pilots.
In McCain’s case, the ‘wet-start”cooked off’ and launched the M34 Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that punctured the Skyhawk’s fueltank, knocked the M-65 1000 lb bomb off it’s 500 lb rated mount, and touched off the explosions and massive fire.
When the carrier Oriskany came along side, and McCain was put in a chopper and whisked away. McCain was the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred .I have a hunch McCain left for his own safety, because the crew wanted blood.
Now thats the straight talk express .
Not to go on and on, but the Youtube video supporting your assertion merely states it is true-it doesn’t show the rocket coming from behind. The film I saw, over and over, showed the rocket coming from across the flight deck. Other reports blame a malfunction in another plane and on changed Navy weapons safety procedures. Blaming someone for contributing to the deaths of over one hundred sailors (not soldiers) is too serious to throw around because you believe it is “likely”.
[…] seeing such a major troll fail has got to be […]
I notice that you don’t link a source for these claims. Try this one which thoroughly debunks them.
Straight talk, indeed.
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