October 17, 2008

“George Voinovich calls Barack Obama a ‘socialist'”

From the Cleveland Plain Dealer blog:

Sen. George Voinovich, what do you really think of Barack Obama, the Democratic candidate for president?

“He is left of Teddy Kennedy. With all due respect, the man is a socialist.”

Ohio’s senior senator, a Republican, made his comments Thursday to a reporter for The Daily Sentinel in Pomeroy, Ohio. He was visiting the Meigs County Republican Party.

Voinovich said he felt that John McCain, the Republican presidential candidate, had the “maturity, experience and proven record of reaching across the aisle” and would be a “responsible president” in one of the “most challenging times in the history of this country.”

Voinovich’s office did not back away from the “socialist” quote today.

Spokesman Chris Paulitz said it was based on Voinovich’s strong belief in a limited role for the federal government. Paulitz cited the 10th Amendment, which says: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

Said Paulitz: “Sen. Voinovich has been a mayor and a governor, and believes the 10th Amendment is sacred. And he does not believe that Sen. Obama has an understanding or respect of the 10th Amendment.”

McCain and his running mate, Sarah Palin, do, said Paulitz, adding that Voinovich has spoken with Palin specifically about the government’s role and that she, McCain and Ohio’s GOP senator are in agreement.

Wow. Quite the pointed breakdown of Senate “collegiality.”

Too little, too late, likely, — at least for this election season. But perhaps a sign of things to come — as it will have to be, if we’re to rescue the nation the founders imagined from the new self-selecting professional political class of elites, beltway insiders, media advocates, and big government guardians on both sides of the political aisle.

If there’s a bloodless battle for the soul of classical liberalism in the offing, Voinovich may just have assumed the role of that South Carolinian on Morris Island who fired on the Star of the West, marking the beginning of the Civil War.

Metaphorically speaking, of course.

(h/t Gateway Pundit, via Geoff B)

Posted by Jeff G. @ 2:12pm
118 comments | Trackback

Comments (118)

  1. Quite a macho step for the normally-quick-to-tears Voinovich. Could prove to be a nice little Bratz finger bandaid on the gaping wound that is his Senate career.

  2. Voinovich’s office did not back away from the “socialist” quote today.

    That’s cause Baracky for real is a socialist what the media has been pimping. A sick in the head un-American socialist. Him and his woman both.

  3. I want the congresscritters to quit blathering on about “getting along” and “bitartisanship” (which is code for giving pork to the constituents on a more equal basis) and just get back to fighting on the floor for what they believe in, if indeed they believe in anything any more other than getting re-elected. Real fighting. I want knock-down drag outs. As a bonus, this might be a business opportunity for Tony. So, it’s pretty much a good thing all around.

  4. Yeah! Let’s hand out some frickin’ CANES, I say!

  5. Holy crap, a senator spoke the truth.

    The End Is Nigh!

  6. And if all the old coots kill each other, we can elect some newer jackasses to take over the job of screwing the American public.

  7. Holy shit. Voinovich found his testicles?

    He’s not running this year, right? Because if he is, he’s out. In fact, if he’s not this year, I bet he doesn’t run for re-election in two (or four) years.

  8. I dunno Jeff G,
    Voinovich still do haz some pull there in Ohio, dont-cha-know…

    Maybe he’s just verifyin’ JTP’s assessment for all the, you know, establishment and elites

    I mean, he was an attorney and a member of Phi Kappa Tau…!

  9. It may not be too late. If this morning’s poll results are to be believed, McCain is within two points of Obama. And this is Gallup and AP.

  10. It’s not over folks….please believe that. At this time in 1980, Reagan trailed Carter more than McCain trails The One. Also in 2000, GW Bush trailed Gore more than McCain trails The Messiah.

    The media are 95% in the tank for The Messiah With A Thin Resume but it’s still not over yet. He will lose quite a bit of support by election day.

    Keep fighting!

  11. Voinovich found his testicles?

    I’m thinking Saracuda told him, “They’re called balls George. You oughta try getting them out of storage some time.”

  12. Huh. As a life-long Ohio resident, to say that I didn’t see this coming is a wild understatement. George is pretty much a spineless bimbo more often than not, but this is a pleasant surprise.

    (He still doesn’t get a pass on working to block John Bolton’s appointment a couple years ago because he was “mean”.)

  13. Not sure Nicholas Ruffin was a South Carolinian, Jeff, but he was definitely an ardent secessionist. Blew his brains out when the South surrendered.

  14. calling a spa

    I denounce myself

  15. Hey, that Gallup poll showing Obama with the 2 point lead? Did you see the Rep/Dem breakdown? There were about 200 MORE Dems than Republicans polled….and Obama won by 2 points.

    That’s the best news I’ve heard in weeks.

  16. Oops, my bad. It was the AP/Yahoo poll what did a crazy oversampling of Dems and still couldn’t muster up more than a 2 point lead for the Obamanator.

  17. Well then they’re just gonna have to sample more dems next time.

  18. Okay, George, I’ll forgive you. You manned up and I respect that. Everyone better start worrying about our Country and not their own asses. This election is a struggle of good vs evil. I truly believe that and I’m not given to exaggerations or halucinations.. Half the people here have drank something or ate something that has made them insane. God help us all and God bless America.

  19. The MSM is working over time – search and destroy anyone who embarrasses The One, tweaking their polling in order to show The One in a “pull away” lead…

    And the drumbeat drumbeat “Hey Rethugs, it’s all over. STAY AT HOME AND DON’T VOTE!”

    ACORN works overtime in trying to dilute the vote with outright fraud and the MSM is telling people unless they vote for Obama they had better just stay home.

    Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer!

  20. The MSM is working over time – search and destroy anyone who embarrasses The One

    How do I get that gig? I mean, be the one they try to search and destroy for embarrassing The One.

    If I find out, I’ll let y’all know. It would be a hoot [not the troll] if we all became targets of MSM and ACORN rage.

  21. So, someone from the left, like Voinovich, thinks Obama’s too far to the left? It’s kind of hard to know how to react to that.

  22. It is hard to believe that at this late in the game it is still a surprise to hear someone label Obama a socialist. Good grief. Has it not been evident for some time now?

    For Voinovich to wait this long only makes him a little less than the pussy that Obama is himself. Where are the rest of the conservatives in office?

  23. Senator, you have offended The One. In February, you will be dealt with.

  24. Do you seriously believe that Obama and his progressive sleeper cells are going to destroy this country? With what treasure will they mollify the lazy, slobbering masses demanding hourly feedings? I would appear that the current administration has pretty much expanded government to its breaking point. Look at all the new, unaccountable and invisible functionaries created by the bailout of the cheating class? And they’re tossing our money around like a ticker tape parade!

    Kos and his droogs could only dream!

  25. Voinovich suckles tenderly on Bush’s $6-trillion. Capitalists, my ass.

    The Republican milieu matches McCain’s bozo shoes.

  26. cynn

    Do you think Obama’s “eat the rich” tax plan will help or hurt the economy? Yes or no.

  27. Darleen, I hope that’s a rhetorical question.

  28. Errrr…. let’s try again?

    Do you think Obama’s “eat the rich” tax plan will help or hurt the economy? Help or hurt?

  29. On 8 of the 10 key economic variables examined, the American economy performed better during the Reagan years than during the pre- and post-Reagan years.

    *Real economic growth averaged 3.2 percent during the Reagan years versus 2.8 percent during the Ford-Carter years and 2.1 percent during the Bush-Clinton years.

    *Real median family income grew by $4,000 during the Reagan period after experiencing no growth in the pre-Reagan years; it experienced a loss of almost $1,500 in the post-Reagan years.

    *Interest rates, inflation, and unemployment fell faster under Reagan than they did immediately before or after his presidency.

    The only economic variable that was worse in the Reagan period than in both the pre- and post-Reagan years was the savings rate, which fell rapidly in the 1980s. The productivity rate was higher in the pre-Reagan years but much lower in the post-Reagan years. *

    We should be so luck as to get back to a supplyside economic system. Under Obama we will BE LUCKY if it’s only Jimmy Carter II.

  30. Yes! I don’t like his tax policy; I think it’s foolish to hobble creators of capital by stripping them of wealth. But I hate taxes anyway, and furthermore it’s absurd to even formulate a tax policy when we may devolve into a nation of paupers.

  31. Everyone already has access to health care in America.

    But a lot of people just don’t care.

  32. Cynn

    you’re equivocating. Why should Obama be president when he is committed to raising taxes and nationalizing 1/6th of the economy and sending Federally issued welfare checks to 30-40% of the people who pay NOTHING in fed income taxes? And pushing people to withdraw money from their own 401K or IRA?

  33. Cleo

    You really should read Exodus 20:17.

  34. I don’t think the wealthy should be able to make wealth. That just seems unfair.

    I need me some. Gimme.

  35. Darleen: I was semi-kidding about the tax thing, because you didn’t ask a real question. Why should Obama be president? If enough people vote for him, why not? I haven’t studied his tax policies. I’m sure they are offensive.

    And Obama can no more force someone to stupidly withdraw $$ from their retirement funds than McCain can force some dolt to let him pay for their house.

  36. For those of you wondering where semi cribs its info, here you go.

  37. I think the salaries of movie stars skyrocketed in the 80’s too.

    Oh wait – Ben Affleck was helping people when he made Gigli.

    (I didn’t see it. I wouldn’t pay good money to stare at my own poop for 2 hours)

  38. cleo, that’s some kind of Christianity you hold that says stealing from your neighbor is a-ok.

  39. Essential reading from the dudes at Powerline.

    http://www.americanexperiment.org/publications/1995/199512hj.php

    Yes, this means you, ‘Cleo.

  40. “Said Paulitz: “Sen. Voinovich has been a mayor and a governor, and believes the 10th Amendment is sacred. And he does not believe that Sen. Obama has an understanding or respect of the 10th Amendment.””

    This is amusing.

  41. The notion that the rich shouldn’t have all that wealth is nonsense. They can do no wrong with it. If they invest it, more business capital, more goods, more jobs. If they spend it, more jobs, more money, more demand for goods. If they burn it they fight inflation, our dollars buy more.

    Tax money away from them and the government wastes it on stupid crap unguided by market forces. It gets blown on unpromising research, on military forces squatting in places I don’t care about, bloated cities I don’t live near, all with no local accountability.

    I’d rather see Gates with Gates’s money, rather than Barry O et al.

  42. Not sure Nicholas Ruffin was a South Carolinian

    (((Carolina penalty: Nik “Unnecessary” Ruffin; 2 minutes for Diving, 5 minutes for Drawing Blood, at 18:65 of the 3rd period.)))

  43. There is nothing “Christian” about theft.

  44. What caused this growing inequality? The most underlying reason may be that it takes money to make money.

    It also takes intelligence and hard work, and an understanding of how wealth is created. What you are saying is it takes seed corn to grow more corn, so what we should do is take more seed corn from the best farmers and give it to the lazy farmers that suck.

    And somehow that is supposed to make sense and be fair.

  45. Meya: thanks for your illuminating post. I wish there was…more.

  46. I don’t think the wealthy should be able to make wealth. That just seems unfair.

    I disagree. I encourage their multiplication. As long as I get to divide.

    Anyone else got a tiara?

    Take your hat off, ‘tic.

  47. What heartens me is that the media is pushing hard that the election is over-“Stay home Republicans, don’t bother, stay home.” But older, wiser types see that for what it is, while the younger voters O has groomed so hard, will believe it, party and sleep in. The Dems always believe in younger voters, and get let down.

  48. Comment by Semanticleo on 10/17 @ 4:31 pm #

    Do you speak English?

  49. Odinga update:

    Obama Cousin Raila Odinga: Obama’s Foreign Policy Exerience
    Posted on October 17th, 2008
    by mondoreb in 2008 Election Coverage
    Odinga Supporters Burned Christians Alive in Kenya

    Barack Obama has an Odinga problem, and it could be his Achille’s heel, proving that Obama’s only foreign policy achievement to date resulted in massive Muslim-led ethnic cleansing that murdered hundreds of Christians in Western Kenya in the post-election violence of his cousin Raila Odinga’s failed 2007 bid for the Kenyan presidency.

    Raila Odinga is the current Prime Minister of Kenya, and Barack Obama’s first cousin.
    Odinga’s mother was the sister of Barak Obama, Sr, who was also a member of Odinga’s Luo (or Jalou) tribe.

    Odinga’s father was the late Kenyan politician Jaramogi Odinga Oginga, and he, Barak Obama Sr, and Raila Odinga both attended the same Maseno high school in Western Kenya.

    Kenyan Government: Obama an “Odinga Stooge”

    link

  50. “Comment by Semanticleo on 10/17 @ 4:50 pm #

    Economists previously believed that raising the minimum wage would cost jobs, especially among teenagers.”

    It does,

    And among non-teenagers, too.

    You retarded marmoset.

  51. I think ‘cleo’s argument comes down to, “Income and wealth distribution are not to my personal liking, therefore I will use violence and the threat of same to make them so.” Behold modern enlightened thought.

  52. “Comment by Jeffersonian on 10/17 @ 6:38 pm #

    I think ‘cleo’s argument comes down to, “Income and wealth distribution are not to my personal liking, therefore I will use violence and the threat of same to make them so.””

    seman’s views of economics are…primitive.

  53. seman’s views of economics are…primitive.

    Yes, but he uses his tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore.

  54. cleo has probably never run a lemonade stand, let alone a business.

    Amazing how a few lessons in economic reality and human nature trumps a barrel full of preachy theorists.

  55. “Amazing how a few lessons in economic reality and human nature trumps a barrel full of preachy theorists.”

    The late Soviet Union died of it’s own contradictions.

    You’d think they’d learn.

  56. I think the election’s still pretty tight, so Voinovich’s comments could have some effect.

  57. Since when did accurately describing a socialist as a socialist become the equivalent of casting an aspersion? Is there anyone who claims Obamba is not a socialist? If he’s not a socialist, what the fuck is he?

  58. “Not sure Nicholas Ruffin was a South Carolinian, Jeff,”

    It’s EDMUND Ruffin, and he was a Virginian, well into his 70’s at Sumter, and bragging like grampas will to any on the train south that would listen about how proud he was to join the new cause.

    [/nerd]


  59. Comment by Darleen on 10/17 @ 4:24 pm #
    cynn

    Do you think Obama’s “eat the rich” tax plan will help or hurt the economy? Yes or no.

    Are you going to tell me lower taxes help the economy? Ha!

    Well, smelly little Redumblican in a frumpy old frock, do you know what a budget deficit is? What happens when a nation acquires so much debt that they have to print money to pay their debt off? Yes, frumpy, math in Zimbabwe is the same as in the U.S., meaning, we are fast becoming Zimbabwe. Math’s the same, think hard!

    And do you know what they call an economy funded by debt? A false economy. Mmmmm, deeeeep. Not so simple and spoon-fed like wittle Redumblican likes their answers to be, but the answer nonetheless.

    Darleen would you like to ask any other questions?

  60. Dan Are: You rule.

  61. I disagree, Dan Are. I suspect the critical voting contingent is like magma just under the earth’s crust. I have my mail-in ballot sitting on my desk, but I haven’t considered it. Nobody ever talked about what mattered, only what counted. Not good enough.

  62. #

    Comment by Darleen on 10/17 @ 6:49 pm #

    cleo has probably never run a lemonade stand, let alone a business.

    Amazing how a few lessons in economic reality and human nature trumps a barrel full of preachy theorists.

    I don’t think you, Darleen, have one fuckin’ clue about running a business. Of micro or macro economics – I sense you haven’t the slightest hunch.

    You’re a lot of Sister Palin, all guff and no clue-stuff.

  63. Thor, why do you chew on poor Sarah Palin’s gristle so much? She’s a legitimate candidate, for christ’s sake.

  64. The last thing she is is legitimate. She was nominated for nothing more than her mouth and tits.

  65. guess you would know, bro.

  66. Her supporters accuse her critics of snobbery: Maybe she’s not a big “egghead” but she has brilliant instincts and inner toughness. But what instincts? “I’m Joe Six-Pack”? She does not speak seriously but attempts to excite sensation—”palling around with terrorists.” If the Ayers case is a serious issue, treat it seriously. She is not as thoughtful or persuasive as Joe the Plumber, who in an extended cable interview Thursday made a better case for the Republican ticket than the Republican ticket has made. In the past two weeks she has spent her time throwing out tinny lines to crowds she doesn’t, really, understand. This is not a leader, this is a follower, and she follows what she imagines is the base, which is in fact a vast and broken-hearted thing whose pain she cannot, actually, imagine. She could reinspire and reinspirit; she chooses merely to excite. She doesn’t seem to understand the implications of her own thoughts.

    No news conferences? Interviews now only with friendly journalists? You can’t be president or vice president and govern in that style, as a sequestered figure. This has been Mr. Bush’s style the past few years, and see where it got us. You must address America in its entirety, not as a sliver or a series of slivers but as a full and whole entity, a great nation trying to hold together. When you don’t, when you play only to your little piece, you contribute to its fracturing.

    In the end the Palin candidacy is a symptom and expression of a new vulgarization in American politics. It’s no good, not for conservatism and not for the country. And yes, it is a mark against John McCain, against his judgment and idealism.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html

    Even Peggy Noonan, a paid shill, can’t take Palin.

  67. Reminder: thor, CFJ (Certified Financial Jeenius) claimed to have bought a “bag full” of euros on 9/22/2008.

    How did that work out for you, thor?

    Heh.

  68. Worked out well enough to pop some nice gains, Plumber Joe. Volatility breeds opportunity, and hicks breed lip-sticked pigs, eh po-boy.

  69. Is there anyone who claims Obamba is not a socialist?

    What I’ve heard friends say is yeah but he’s the European kind so…

  70. This has been Mr. Bush’s style the past few years, and see where it got us.

    oh. Peggy Noonan is sort of a has-been cunt isn’t she? I don’t think I can defend her anymore.

  71. Georgie Geyer got dried up and bitter when her ovaries shriveled too. I think she’s still alive, just not any fun.

  72. I just don’t get why someone would buy the Wall Street Journal when you can get shit like that for free at the Huffington Post.

  73. “As mentioned earlier, the U.S. economy slowed in 1973 for reasons still not completely understood.”

    Actually, the reason is pretty damn simple–the OPEC embargo had a cascade effect that basically crippled the economy at a time when domestic sources of oil had begun to dry up. For all the bitching about high gas prices, what we had to endure this past year was mild compared to that period–at least I never had to worry about finding a station to fill my tank.

  74. Georgie Geyer got dried up and bitter when her ovaries shriveled too. I think she’s still alive, just not any fun.

    I’m trying to find the picture they used to run with her columns. it screams no fun. One hand on her cheek, looking all bored with life.

  75. I saw her speak when I was little and I really liked her. Georgie. I found her online at some point and she was bitter as Helen Thomas, not as cogent though. Everything she wrote turned on some insight from some interview she had done in like the roller boogie era.

  76. I nominate thor for the gayest commentor on any blog. NTTATWWT. thor, we think you are unique. I would still bet this month’s mortgage that Sarah Palin could whip your sorry ass barehanded. Then hog-tie you and deliver you to Chief Wiggums. Pay per view would do well.

  77. Everybody who rates Senators puts Obama as the most liberal, his running mate Biden at third, and actual Socialist Bernie Sanders at fourth. If you’re to the left of a Socialist… you might be a Socialist!

  78. For reals. It’s not that people think he’s not a socialist. They think he’s European. I got cited some study about economic mobility in Europe being more better than in America. I was like oh. This guy is a second generation immigrant what drives a bmw and owns three houses and all that sort of thing. I didn’t see any sense in pointing that out though. He was talking about them I think.

  79. And do you know what they call an economy funded by debt?

    The technical term is money economy. You seem to have managed to dimly realize that gold-buggery is no more comfortable than any other kind, but are stuck trying to get beyond that point. Pitiable, in a way, if you weren’t such an insistent ass about it.

    Cynn: Thor, why do you chew on poor Sarah Palin’s gristle so much?

    Because he’s an elitist bigot. You could have heard identical sentiments, perhaps even more nicely phrased, around the faculty lounges at Baylor University or Mississippi State circa 1960; of course the subject then would have been a different set of niggers.

    Regards,
    Ric

  80. Worked out well enough to pop some nice gains

    I suspect the only “gains” you’re showing are in the area of weight, and the only thing that’s “popping” around your trailer-house are the buttons on your waistband.

    You fucked up, thor. Accept it and move on.

    Just don’t try to pretend you’re a financial genius when you’re demonstrably anything but.

  81. An elitist bigot? Or someone who knows how to speak to a person who’d call cynn a “slut,” or an bent-crack faggot whose clamored for me to chortle his invisible wang?

    If you want to talk civil, I can do that, but I think I know who deserves the knuckles.

    George Bush fucked America. You lower taxes to manage economic stimulation; you don’t bury a nation in debt, and then, then, add even more debt to un-bury the nation. Republicans are intellectual jars of farts. Just.Fuckin’.Stupid.They.Are.

    Yes, round ‘em up, blind fold ‘em, and send ‘em through a punch and kick line manned by American school-aged kids that’ll from tomorrow on have to pay for their utter economic stupidity and incompetence. Fuckin’ treasonous, elitist, God-sucking, flag-waving hicks!

    This isn’t an election, this is stomp and stamp ‘em time!

  82. thor, have you ever in your life answered a question without changing the subject?

    It must make you a killer at screwing blue-haired LOLs out of their life savings for beach condos.

    Regards,
    Ric

  83. Thor isn’t just a bigot. He is a latent faggot who hates feminine beauty out of jealousy.

  84. “thor, have you ever in your life answered a question without changing the subject?”

    Calvin to Hobbes: “Huh? Are you still talking about that?”

    Actually, this is probably a more accurate representation of thor’s mindset:

    “Calvin: I’m a genius, but I’m a misunderstood genius.
    Hobbes: What’s misunderstood about you?
    Calvin: Nobody thinks I’m a genius.”

  85. The more Thor sputters and spits pointless invective, the more I’m convinced he thinks McCain is going to win and he can’t stand it. No, not one bit.

    I thought Thor the little shit-flinger was banned, anyway.

  86. Economists previously believed that raising the minimum wage would cost jobs, especially among teenagers. However, recent research suggests that the truth might be a bit more complicated than this, and that when the minimum wage falls too low (due to inflation), it can be raised safely. For more on the controversy stemming from the Card/Krueger study, see More.

    Actually, economists still believe that higher minimum wages cause unemployment. Card/Krueger is a laughingstock. To be polite, their study didn’t survive peer review. They phoned up a bunch of Burger King managers and asked them their opinions about what hiring changes they would make if New Jersey raised minimum wages and concluded from their “data” that employment increased 8%, but when other researchers actually went and looked at the PAYROLL RECORDS of the stores in the Card/Krueger data set, they found that after NJ raised the minimum wage, these stores cut employment by 5-18%.

    Think about it, Semanticleo, for anything else to be true then labor would have to be exempt from the laws of supply and demand. Now there are some goods and services which, due to their nature, have inelastic supplies, demand, or both (think for example kidney dialysis. If the price were cut in half tomorrow you wouldn’t be running out to get you some). But if you can posit a theory of how the laws of supply and demand don’t apply to labor, you should send it to the Nobel committee. Seriously.

    I hate to break it to you cleo, but all of the economic bullshit in your head isn’t taught in economics departments, and hasn’t been for decades. Womyn’s studies, maybe, english lit and journalism departments, some, but actual economics departments? No. Economics has moved on. Sorry.

  87. And by the way, Voinovich is exactly right. During the last week of the campaign, McCain should refer to Obama as a radical socialist, and get the media to repeat it. Obama is too proud, and the right accusing him of being a socialist—especially if it’s in a way that demonstrates a “vulgar” understanding of socialism—will bring him to a “The truth? The truth? You can’t handle the truth” moment.

    Aheh.

  88. Tax progressivity was highest in the decades after World War II, when the rich were taxed a stratospheric 88 percent for nearly two decades. This was also an era in which the U.S. economy was a juggernaut, and the American Dream was indisputably alive and well.

    Gee, why was that do you think?


  89. Comment by peter jackson on 10/17 @ 11:42 pm #

    I hate to break it to you cleo, but all of the economic bullshit in your head isn’t taught in economics departments, and hasn’t been for decades. Womyn’s studies, maybe, english lit and journalism departments, some, but actual economics departments? No. Economics has moved on. Sorry.

    I hate to break it to you, B-school retard, but I doubt you’re management material at Burger King. Take a class in Philosophy and maybe that’ll help you get a grip on some logic.

  90. “Take a class in Philosophy and maybe that’ll help you get a grip on some logic.”

    And get you well on your way to flipping burgers.

    It’s a synergistic thing.

  91. - Take ♥ mon-ami, the pools, they are once again tightening. I don’t think Wonderboy can pull it off, even with fraudulent voters, if he can’t maintain at least a +10 point lead going into election night, likely jury-rigged PEW exit polls not withstanding. The ghosts of Bradly’s past loom ever large.

    – Be a bit of poetic justice, if in hindsight, a lowly Ohio plumber brings down “teh One”. Scratch Socialist, find a Facist.

    – Oh look Semi-colonCleaner has discovered that as the population grows, and an increasing number of the population (which is also increasing), decide its easier to sit on your ass and suck the government teat, there’s less of the pie to go around.

    – Just fucking brilliant, What else can you say.

    – Arguing economics with people who cling bitterly to their petty jealousies because of their own inadequacies, and seek a better life by stealing other peoples money, is like teaching a Socialist to work for a living.

  92. Tax progressivity was highest in the decades after World War II, when the rich were taxed a stratospheric 88 percent for nearly two decades. This was also an era in which the U.S. economy was a juggernaut, and the American Dream was indisputably alive and well.

    A couple of points.

    One: wealth was not as mobile as it is now. In 1948, there weren’t international markets and Cayman Island offshore banks and easy travel and internet connections to run your oligarchy from the beach with. We can cry all we want about “offshoring”, but there’s no real way to stop it. Jack the top tax bracket to 88% and see where the affected money goes.

    Second: the American economy was very strong during this period in large part, as someone else pointed out, because the USA was the least war-damaged of the victor countries. Also, there was a lot of room FOR expansion of the economy because the US was not fully developed in many ways. There were highways to be built, construction was booming, etc. Heck, “rural electrification” was still an ongoing project in those days.

  93. #101: The other point about once-upon-a-time high tax rates is that the expansion you mention was, in fact, happening. Things were being done with the money. Not just highways, but fighter jets and Navy ships, courthouses and post offices. Oh, and paying down the WWII debt. A rich guy could look at all that and say, “Well, they’re pretty inefficient about it, but if they were smart enough to be efficient they’d be working for me, and at least they’re accomplishing something.”

    Nowadays the public face of Government accomplishment is the 300-lb. woman paying for a cartful of ding-dongs and soda pop with a food stamp card, while her four kids, none of whom resemble one another, pillage the rest of the store, and you know damned well that all the angst about the debt is lies; if we give them more money they’ll just buy more poor people to vote for them. It puts an entirely different face on the difference between “contribution” and “tax”.

    Regards,
    Ric

  94. I thought Thor the little shit-flinger was banned, anyway.

    He is, but he doesn’t have the sense to leave where he’s not wanted and prefers to demonstrate his power to ignore the wishes of our host. I was going to mention something about his lack of grace but it occurs that such would be akin to mentioning his lack of orbiting planets. The boy is a social and intellectual train wreck.

  95. 300-lb. woman paying for a cartful of ding-dongs and soda pop with a food stamp card, while her four kids, none of whom resemble one another, pillage the rest of the store,

    For the same cost of a cart load of Ding Dongs, that same behemoth could drive a truck load of Swiss Cake Rolls back to the manse.

    ………and use the little cardboard SCR pallets as drink coasters. Can’t have rings on the faux-knotty pine.

    The little pallets could also be used to cover the windows in a “squatting on a defaulted mortgage” scenario.

  96. Other weird thing about the post WW2 Economy: it following a crippling worldwide depression which the catastrophic war followed like flies follow thor’s comments. So, yeah, kinda nowhere to go but up.

    Interestingly, those same retarded tax rates didn’t seem to get the economic wheel humming in the nine years prior to WW2. Neither Hoover nor Roosevelt could quite figger out why…such a puzzler.

  97. Snotty Ding Dong eaters living beyond their means. Baracky and M’chelle have them some social justice planned for their stupid fat asses. It’s time to turn this tugboat around for the American Way I think.

  98. Comment by Ric Locke on 10/18 @ 6:43 am #

    #101: The other point about once-upon-a-time high tax rates is that the expansion you mention was, in fact, happening. Things were being done with the money. Not just highways, but fighter jets and Navy ships, courthouses and post offices. Oh, and paying down the WWII debt. A rich guy could look at all that and say, “Well, they’re pretty inefficient about it, but if they were smart enough to be efficient they’d be working for me, and at least they’re accomplishing something.”

    A rich guy, say, like Hank “Ace” Greenberg of AIG fame? Fuld of Lehman Bro.s fame? CEO of GM?

    Guns.
    Bible.
    Reagonomics.
    Bitterly cling.
    Irrelevant.
    Ding Dongs.

  99. Who else is rich is that Ashton Kutcher of That ’70s Show fame. They even let him keep all the clothes.

  100. Semen has a limited taste in Bible verses:

    We have at least one clear description of the failure of Communism under optimal conditions. I refer, of course, to the Book of Acts, 4:32 – 5:11, Ananias and Sephira. NewLiving translation.

    1. There is no doubt that they are practicing the economic system of communism:”All the believers were of one heart and mind, and they felt that what they owned was not their own; they shared everything they had…There was no poverty among them, because people who owned land or houses sold them, and brought the money to the apostles to give to others in need.” From each according to his means, to each according to his need — Marx would have been proud to call them brother.

    2. They had as close to an incorruptible body of rulers as possible, who were proving their uprightness with miracles every day.

    3. And they had pretty close to the ultimate Auditor; when Ananais and Sephira try to cheat the system, Peter knows about it instantly, and the punishment is swift and sure: the cheaters are struck dead on the spot.

    And yet there were still cheaters, the apostles couldn’t hold it together for very long, and none of the other churches outside Jerusalem seem to have even tried it. If the 12 Apostles backed up by God couldn’t make communism work, how in the h*ll would any lesser mortals have a shot??

    Oh, and of course, NO WHERE in the New Testament is setting up a government bureaucracy to handle charity considered a good thing; charity is a personal decision, to be implemented as the individual believer is able.

  101. thor (#107): can you read, or is all you detect written on the inside of your eyeballs?

    Regards,
    Ric

  102. thor sort of understands what is happening right now, and the rules of the current system, apparently. But he mistakenly believes that those rules define everything. Tractors and irrigation and pesticides and refrigeration changed the way you farm corn, but it didn’t change the basic biology and chemistry that makes corn grow. That is an important distinction.

  103. I hate to break it to you, B-school retard, but I doubt you’re management material at Burger King. Take a class in Philosophy and maybe that’ll help you get a grip on some logic.

    That’s it? That’s your rebuttal?

  104. Cleo is one of those people who has no idea how things get done or where stuff comes from.
    To hs mind there is only so much wealth and if you have more than anyone else, then you must have stolen it from them.

    The basic laws that describe the actions of economics are as immutable as those of physics.

  105. … did somebody call me a slut? Come on down; I may not have Jeff’s krav magma skilz, but if I miss your crotch, I’ll get your ass.

  106. It’s the fat black layabouts that propel the righties’ limos. Burn that rubber, and they disappear.

  107. cynn: you need to take your medication every day, not just when you feel “bad”.

  108. Ric more or less implied it; I’m just reiterating.

  109. So which phrase in Ric’s comments was the code for “black”?

  110. I note that in all the chest-beating cynn carefully never provides an address so someone can take her up on it…..

  111. Ric more or less implied it; I’m just reiterating.

    Oh, that’s rich. The moron who used phrasing out of Der Sturmer imputing racism to someone else?!

  112. #94 Spiny Norman:

    IIRC he was, but he needs the affirmation.

  113. #97 Mark A. Flacy:

    Without clicking your link, my guess is that the rest of the world’s industrial nations had been so fought over that rebuilding and not competition with the US was their guiding principle. ‘Clearing the rubble’ took precedent.

  114. ‘Clearing the rubble’ took precedent.
    A lot of the rubble used to be the factories that made stuff to sell. There was a bit of shrinkage in the population as well. I tried to think of a third line to rhyme, so what the hell.

  115. You know what would breed a strong respect for the 10th Amendment in the Senate? A repeal of the 17th.

  116. #117
    There are more white people on welfare than black people on welfare , cynn.

  117. Another Republican who is unaware of the definition of socialism.

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