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Swiftboating McCain

Evidently, turnabout is fair play. But as Mark Coffey asks, where’s the outrage this time around?

Quick thoughts: this is a political loser for the Dems. McCain spent years as POW being tortured; John Kerry, while he may or may not have thrown his Purple Hearts over the White House fence, clearly did, with Winter Soldiers, smear US troops.

Discuss.

291 Replies to “Swiftboating McCain”

  1. TmjUtah says:

    When the Democrats start arguing on honor/bravery/patriotism, you know they are riding the swirly.

  2. Andrew the Noisy says:

    I can’t wait to read how this is actually GENIUS or ABOUT TIME instead of STUPID.

  3. […] Greg Sargent, TPM: This Is Not Swift-Boating, Because It’s a Matter of Opinion, Not Fact (see Jeff, too) Faiz, Think Progress: McCain’s Record on Economic Reform Zero, Obama’s […]

  4. Curmudgeon says:

    The Demunists just don’t get it–John Kerry smeared his fellow swiftboat veterans, 33 years before he ran for office. Not the other way around.

    But in their world, it is just a given that “on a regular basis, and with the approval of all levels of command”, US soldiers, sailors and airmen always act “in a fashion reminiscient of Jen-Jiss Caan”.

    Ion Mihai Pacepa, a former agent from the formerly Communist Romania, says “Take it from this old KGB hand: The left is abetting America’s enemies with its intemperate attacks on President Bush.”

    http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010438

    But one paragraph in his essay gave me pause:

    “During the Vietnam War we spread vitriolic stories around the world, pretending that America’s presidents sent Genghis Khan-style barbarian soldiers to Vietnam who raped at random, taped electrical wires to human genitals, cut off limbs, blew up bodies and razed entire villages. Those weren’t facts. They were our tales, but some seven million Americans ended up being convinced their own president, not communism, was the enemy.”

    Hmmm….that sounds familiar.

  5. Evan3457 says:

    Oh, please, please, please be stupid enough to run this big-time all over the media, leftards.

  6. McCain’s biggest negative is his temperament, and we’ve already seen evidence of how out-of-whack the poor boy is with his VP pick. Ads that highlight the fact that McCain is a loon are the winning strategy for the Democrats, and good for America.

    I sympathize with the suffering poor ole McCain has endured for the cause of freedom, but setting him loose in the White House is taking Affirmative Action and the ADA too far.

  7. N. O'Brain says:

    Kerry could throw his medals.

    McCain, not so much.

  8. N. O'Brain says:

    Dick, step away from the single malt.

  9. N. O'Brain says:

    Dick.

  10. Jeff G. says:

    I’m no fan of McCain’s statist bent, as I’ve made clear, but he’s a damn site better than Obama — who really just scares me.

    Probably because he’s been suckled by Ayers and Alinsky, and thinks government should be your God — though I guess there’s a chance it’s because he’s not quite black enough.

    DOLEMITE/PALIN 2008: ONCE YOU GO BLACK YOU’LL NEVER GO BARACK!

  11. Alec Leamas says:

    You can tell them not to step on a bag of shit – yes, you can tell them, but they won’t listen.

  12. Bob Reed says:

    McMav is the real deal…

    Kerry?…Meh…

    He’s a poseur, who amazingly accumulated the majic number if injuries, in just 4 short months- one that was questionably trivial, that got his ass back out of Vietnam and back home in time for the medal toss event at the radical left olympics…

    This is the wrong road for O! to go down, but I’m glad he’s headed there all the same…

  13. Jeffersonian says:

    I saw this spot a few days ago and, I admit, I laughed out loud. Here’s a guy who was an underclassman at the USNA when McCain was an upperclassman, who lived down the hall from McCain 50 fucking years ago. He didn’t know McCain in ‘nam, he hasn’t had contact with him since from all appearances. And here he is trotted out as someone with deep insight into McCain’s psyche, as if five years in a prison camp, two marriages, kids, adoptions, years in the House and a quarter of a century in the Senate would leave him utterly the same.

    I’m with #5…Please run this, Dummycrats. Nationally.

  14. Rob Crawford says:

    McCain’s biggest negative is his temperament…

    Really? Compared to Obama he’s as calm as the Rock of Gibraltar. Seriously; McCain’s VP pick has sent Obama into a two-week panic, with the supposed presidential candidate attacking the vice-presidential candidate on the other ticket. Toss in the idiotic “McCain doesn’t know email!!!” ad, the pig crack, and the utter inability of Obama to get back on his message, and it’s pretty clear he’s lost it.

  15. ST says:

    Yes! Noun…verb…POW.

    I actually respected McCain back in the day when he was making sense about things like the Kyoto Treaty and campaign finance reform.

    I keep wondering which McCain would actually emerge should he be elected.

  16. Rob Crawford says:

    He didn’t know McCain in ‘nam…

    Eh? Not even held in the same prison? If not, then WTF qualifies him to talk about McCain’s experiences?

    Is this the fellow who’s been tied to all the lefty/anti-war groups?

  17. An ad with McCain’s first wife talking smack about him would be fun.

  18. happyfeet says:

    ohnoes. A roman candle. Those are the ones they say you can’t hold in your hand when you light them but everybody does anyway. It’s a metaphor, a devastating one but you have to really really think. Ok I’m still working on it, but it seems like a media-friendly line of criticism, is what Joshie Marshall thinks and I believe him. Come November we has a choice between a roman candle and a dud. Safety first, kids!

  19. happyfeet says:

    POWs is teh crazy. We love the troops except the crazy ones. For real they should have to wear ankle bracelets and stuff. Fucking scary bitches these POWs. I could tell you stories.

  20. happyfeet says:

    media friendly stories

  21. Dan Collins says:

    Another one bites the dust?

    Lawyers for Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin have released e-mails detailing what they say is the real reason she dismissed Walt Monegan, the public safety commissioner whose firing prompted the “Troopergate” controversy.

    In a papers filed Monday, the lawyers wrote that Monegan was fired for opposing Palin’s budget priorities. They cited e-mails in which top Palin staffers expressed concern with his approach.

  22. Smedley says:

    No lies here. McCain is an angry narcissist who lacks the sober temperament necessary to make good decisions. If his wife was a drug-addicted criminal, he’d be completely unelectable. Oh, wait.

  23. Pablo says:

    McCain’s biggest negative is his temperament, and we’ve already seen evidence of how out-of-whack the poor boy is with his VP pick.

    I take it you haven’t been watching the polls.

  24. Dan Collins says:

    Criminal? You mean for doing prescription drugs, like Obama?

  25. Dan Collins says:

    I thought this election was about issues.

  26. Rob Crawford says:

    An ad with McCain’s first wife talking smack about him would be fun.

    And would, as much as all the other ads the O! has put out lately, back fire massively. You drag someone’s ex- out to talk smack about them, and no one’s going to take it seriously. People expect ex’s to be bitter, angry, and not have a kind word for the other; trying to make that into a political issue can only come off as desperate and low.

  27. Pablo says:

    You know what would be cool? If Dick and Smedley tell us that McCain is old. That one always gets me thinking.

  28. happyfeet says:

    I can see NPR doing a Republicans are outraged… lede then punching the allegations and then the ad is reminiscent of Republican attacks segue and then a discussion with a psychiatrist saying well yeah lots of POWs are basket cases but that doesn’t necessarily mean McCain is stark raving mad. So me I’m not outraged, I am very grateful now to be a more informed voter. Thank you SO MUCH crazy POW guy for telling me how crazy POW guys are.

    Oh wait.

  29. Jeffersonian says:

    Eh? Not even held in the same prison? If not, then WTF qualifies him to talk about McCain’s experiences?

    Nope, he was a POW, but not the same prison.

  30. Rob Crawford says:

    Well, folks, looks like the latest round of talking points have gone out — the new meme is McCain’s temper. I repeat, McCain’s temper.

  31. Dan Collins says:

    I heard Obama wanted to divorce M’chelle, but she wouldn’t let him.

  32. Naw, Robbie, that was last week’s talking points. This week’s highlight “McCain is a moonbat!”. Not temper, temperament. Permanently bat-shit.

  33. N. O'Brain says:

    “Comment by Richard Bennett on 9/15 @ 8:41 pm #

    An ad with McCain’s first wife talking smack about him would be fun.”

    Whereas an ad with your ex would involve verbiage like “asshole” and “smarmy prick”.

    Right, Dick?

  34. But Ross Perot, who paid her medical bills all those years ago, now believes that both Carol McCain and the American people have been taken in by a man who is unusually slick and cruel – even by the standards of modern politics.

    ‘McCain is the classic opportunist. He’s always reaching for attention and glory,’ he said.

    ‘After he came home, Carol walked with a limp. So he threw her over for a poster girl with big money from Arizona. And the rest is history.’

    If Ross Perot thinks you’re scum, you’re really scum.

  35. Pablo says:

    Carol McCain was married to him, though, right Dick?

    Indeed, the old Mercedes that she uses to run errands displays both a disabled badge and a sticker encouraging people to vote for her ex-husband. ‘He’s a good guy,’ she assured us. ‘We are still good friends. He is the best man for president.’

  36. Dan Collins says:

    It must be the ears.

  37. Dan Collins says:

    Nothing attention-whory about old Ross. Nosiree.

  38. B Moe says:

    What is your marriage history, Richard?

  39. Sdferr says:

    Remember how crowded the group shot of the Swift Boat Veterans was? So many guys the camera had to pan to get them all in? And then John Kerry trotted out a handful of fellas to push his side of his Vietnam history, not a MoH winner among ’em, where the Swifties had a couple of ’em.?
    Wait ’til you get a gander of the MoH winners and fellow PoW’s who step forward to defend McCain. He won’t have to say a peep for these guys to come to his defense.
    I’m still convinced the left is it’s own worst enemy. Stunning really, how lame-brained they are.

  40. Patrick says:

    If we could just harness the centrifugal force from Dick’s spinning, we’d have that source of limitless renewable energy we’ve been looking for.

  41. N. O'Brain says:

    “Stunning really, how lame-brained they are.”

    If they weren’t, they wouldn’t be leftists.

  42. Alec Leamas says:

    “Wait ’til you get a gander of the MoH winners . . . who step forward to defend McCain”

    The five at the Republican Convention would be a decent start.

  43. N. O'Brain says:

    Comment by Patrick on 9/15 @ 9:06 pm #

    Sorry, Patrick, bullshit is limited in the amount of energy it can release.

    Stink, however, is another story.

  44. Sdferr says:

    Where the Obama Action Wire is a garrotte.

  45. ST says:

    I thought this election was about issues.

    Sure it is. Always.

    You sick fuck ;)

  46. If Ross Perot thinks you’re scum

    Who?

    Wasn’t he that guy who did the “happy trees” paintings on that PBS series?

    Yeah, he seemed like a pretty mellow guy. I can imagine it would take quite a bit to piss him off.

  47. Bill M says:

    This is the comment I left at Decision 08, Paging Mr. Bennett:
    Kerry slandered his fellow troops in Congressional hearings, lied about invading Cambodia on the floor of the Senate, had an unauthorized meeting with the enemy in Paris. I’d say he tarnished his own accomplishments, such as they are. With that background, questions about his service would be much easier to believe.

    Here’s a quote from Dr. Butler from the pownetwork site http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/b/b110.htm

    “My POW experience was incredibly valuable to me as a life-learning process.
    It has enriched me immeasurably, though I would never recommend it to
    others.”…”I learned the importance of community from our
    experience, that people who work together can survive and succeed under even
    the most powerful oppression and adversity.”

    Does that sound like the same person in the ad? Would knowing he’s a member of Veterans for Peace make you suspect his statements? He wrote what he said in the ad in March of this year at Military.com. He’s had this opinion for quite a while. Why has no one else come forward to support his opinion?

  48. Smedley says:

    Stealing prescription drugs is a crime, Dan-O. As is taking them without a prescription.

  49. Dan Collins says:

    Really, S’Meds? Because it’s a good thing that pot and coke that O! did wasn’t illegal.

  50. Alec Leamas says:

    “Stealing prescription drugs is a crime, Dan-O. As is taking them without a prescription.”

    But how does this put arugula in M’chelle Obama’s children’s mouths?

  51. Smedley says:

    Too true. And he totally stole them from charity and tried to can the guy who blew the whistle. At age 35. You’ve got me, big guy. Totally the same.

  52. Smedley says:

    I don’t know Alec. You think any of McCain’s homes have arugula in the fridge? Maybe they can borrow some.

  53. Dan Collins says:

    Charity? You mean the kind that conservatives give so much more to . . . of their own money? So, Cindy McCain is supposed to nix John McCain’s eligibility for the Presidency?

    But Obama’s association with Ayers doesn’t matter, right, because he only went about trying to kill pigs and overturn the establishment, MAN.

  54. Dan Collins says:

    His sponsorship by and of a race-baiting, conspiracy-mongering asshole pastor doesn’t reflect on him at all, right?

    But Palin’s husband’s DUI in the Eighties is big news.

  55. And he totally stole them from charity and tried to can the guy who blew the whistle.

    And, of course, cocaine use has never been associated with theft or violent crime.

  56. B Moe says:

    Smedley has made me see the light! No way am I voting for Cindy McCain for President now!

  57. ST says:

    Meds & Issues about meds. Woo-hoo.

  58. lex says:

    This guy has an axe to grind. Been doing it for a while. Some class of envy, I suspect.

  59. Dan Collins says:

    The fact that he’s got Jim Johnson and Franklin Raines as benefactors and advisors and tries to blame the mortgage meltdown on the Republicans doesn’t bother you.

  60. Howcome says:

    Scoring a little blow is perfectly legal though. But only when you have enough money.

  61. Dan Collins says:

    The fact that he played footsie with the Daley Machine in Chicago doesn’t bother you.

  62. Dan Collins says:

    The fact that he lied about public financing doesn’t bother you.

  63. Darleen says:

    An ad with McCain’s first wife talking smack about him would be fun.

    Might be a little hard as they mended their fences long ago. Most of that due to McCain being a real man and taking responsibility for being “a jerk” at the time.

    There’s a lot I’ve disagreed with policy wise with McCain for many years, but the man is one stand up guy.

    Obama feels entitled to the Presidency, just like everything in his life, and he’s throwing hissy fits that any one dare oppose him. So forth the Obamabot oozing of sexism, classism and ageism.

  64. B Moe says:

    She “stole” them from her own charity, Smedley. How much of her own money did she not steal? How much has she raised and given away? Yet you chose to focus on on little incident of addiction in all that good. You are a very pathetic little creature, aren’t you.

    Probably ought to change that name to Smeagol, really. Be much more appropriate.

  65. Dan Collins says:

    The fact that he may have interfered with US foreign policy in Iraq for political gain doesn’t bother you.

  66. Nan says:

    Well, the trolls who post here at PW have always been nasty, ugly little creatures (some nastier and uglier than others to be sure). But does it seem to anyone else that the current herd (flock? coven?) are posting at a whole new level of ugliness?

    Personally, I’m taking that as a promising sign for the election.

  67. Dan Collins says:

    The fact that he lied about his resume in his memoirs doesn’t bother you.

  68. Dan Collins says:

    The fact that his memoirs were put-up jobs doesn’t bother you.

  69. B Moe says:

    I am still waiting for Richard to fill me in on his marriage record. How can I judge his character and credibility until I know?

  70. Dan Collins says:

    The fact that his wife’s hospital administration sinecure salary was doubled after he came to Congress doesn’t bother you.

  71. Dan Collins says:

    The fact that he wasted $150 million on worthless Chicago public schools programs and sends his own kids to private schools, but sucks up to the teachers unions doesn’t bother you.

  72. Dan Collins says:

    The fact that he has sponsored, financially and as a lawyer, vote-fraud pushing ACORN doesn’t bother you.

  73. Dan Collins says:

    That he praised Kwame for he bang-up job he was doing in Detroit.

  74. ST says:

    Dan Collins:

    You have been drinking again, and you are making shit up.

    And no, it doesn’t bother me.

  75. Dan Collins says:

    That he sometimes believes in an undivided Jerusalem, and sometimes not.

  76. Dan Collins says:

    Point it out, ST, you pestilent pile of shit.

  77. Darleen says:

    Not one Obamabot ever answers the question of why we don’t see anyone from Barry’s past – college chums, people who worked with him before his “community organizer” gig, that step up to vouch for him. It’s as if he moved to Chicago, falling into Ayers and the Daley machine arms, fully formed with no past.

    Yeah. Right.

  78. Darleen says:

    ST

    Must be some nice kool-aid there.

  79. The fact that he’s ginned up a cult of personality, complete with fascist imagery like this and this.

  80. Jeff G. says:

    Me neither, Dan. Doesn’t bother me one bit. Because Sarah Palin wears Tina Fey glasses — and probably doesn’t even find Alec Baldwin funny.

    Hell, does she even get that show about inside Hollywoodness? Probably not. And yet she wants to be vice president.

    I SAID GOOD DAY, SIR!

  81. Dan Collins says:

    I could drink a case and still be smarter than you, ST.

  82. Bill M says:

    Keep them doggies rollin’ Rawhiiiide!!!!

  83. Pablo says:

    You have been drinking again, and you are making shit up.

    I’d wager yes and no. Making what up? Do point it out.

  84. ST says:

    Point it out, ST, you pestilent pile of shit.

    Sure dude. As soon as you sober up.

  85. Pablo says:

    It’s as if he moved to Chicago, falling into Ayers and the Daley machine arms, fully formed with no past.

    Which is why he’s just like Jesus.

  86. Dan Collins says:

    Sure, ST, because by then . . . what? Will the facts have changed? You are as empty a suit as Obama. You’re a waste of carbon and bandwidth.

  87. SarahW says:

    McCain’s first wife has plenty to say about John McCain…all of it, good.

  88. Pablo says:

    Sure dude. As soon as you sober up.

    Weak. Support your argument. Dan isn’t making anything up. Prove him wrong or retract.

  89. Nan says:

    And personally, I’m betting that he hasn’t released his academic records because his GPA is lower than GWB’s.

  90. Patrick says:

    OK, I’ll say it before someone else does. ST’s surname is Upid.

  91. Dan Collins says:

    I did make up the thing about Obama wanting to divorce M’chelle, but she wouldn’t let him. He wouldn’t have the balls to say it if he did.

  92. B Moe says:

    http://www.jpshrine.org/lyrics/songs/mymy.html

    Jesus…. the missing years

    It was raining. It was cold
    West Bethlehem was no place for a twelve year old
    So he packed his bags and he headed out
    To find out what the world’s about
    He went to France. He went to Spain
    He found love. He found pain.
    He found stores so he started to shop
    But he had no money so he got in trouble with a cop
    Kids in trouble with the cops
    From Israel didn’t have no home
    So he cut his hair and moved to Rome
    It was there he met his Irish bride
    And they rented a flat on the lower east side of Rome…
    Italy that is
    Music publishers, book binders, Bible belters, Money Changers,
    Spoon Benders and lots of pretty Italian chicks.

    Chorus:
    Charley bought some popcorn
    Billy bought a car
    Someone almost bought the farm
    But they didn’t go that far
    Things shut down at midnight
    At least around here they do
    Cause we all reside down the block
    Inside at ….23 Skidoo.

    Wine was flowing so were beers
    So Jesus found his missing years
    So He went to a dance and said “This don’t move me”
    He hiked up his pants and he went to a movie
    On his thirteenth birthday he saw “Rebel without a Cause”
    He went straight on home and invented Santa Claus
    Who gave him a gift and he responded in kind
    He gave the gift of love and went out of his mind
    You see him and the wife wasn’t getting along
    So he took out his guitar and he wrote a song
    Called “The Dove of Love Fell Off the Perch”
    But he couldn’t get divorced in the Catholic Church
    At least not back then anyhow
    Jesus was a good guy he didn’t need this shit
    So he took a pill with a bag of peanuts and
    A Coca-Cola and he swallowed it.
    He discovered the Beatles
    And he recorded with the Stones
    Once He even opened up a three-way package
    In Southern California for old George Jones

    Repeat Chorus:

    The years went by like sweet little days
    With babies crying pork chops and beaujolais
    When he woke up he was seventeen
    The world was angry. The world was mean.
    Why the man down the street and the kid on the stoop
    All agreed that life stank. All the world smelled like poop
    Baby poop that is ..the worst kind
    So he grew his hair long and threw away his comb
    And headed back to Jerusalem to find Mom, Dad and home
    But when he got there the cupboard was bare
    Except for an old black man with a fishing rod
    He said “Whatcha gonna be when you grow up?”
    Jesus said “God”
    Oh my God, what have I gotten myself into?
    I’m a human corkscrew and all my wine is blood
    They’re gonna kill me Mama. They don’t like me Bud.
    So Jesus went to Heaven and he went there awful quick
    All them people killed him and he wasn’t even sick
    So come and gather around me my contemporary peers
    And I’ll tell you all the story of
    Jesus…The Missing Years

    -John Prine

  93. And personally, I’m betting that he hasn’t released his academic records because his GPA is lower than GWB’s.

    And that would raise questions about how he got into Harvard Law.

  94. ST says:

    Sure, ST, because by then . . . what? Will the facts have changed? You are as empty a suit as Obama. You’re a waste of carbon and bandwidth.

    Whatever. Get this moron: I’m FINE with McCain as president. Not my first choice, not the end of the world.

    I’m just suspicious of the “R” tattooed on the forehead apologist punks like you.

  95. Dan Collins says:

    Get this, moron: if you accuse me of lying, you’d better have the goods, or I am going to expose you for the fucktard libellous bastard you are.

  96. sears poncho says:

    Yeah, ST, I haven’t been drinking, seems to me that Dan pretty much knows what he’s about. I’m not seeing you refute anything. Sounds like you’re the punk.

  97. B Moe says:

    Sic ’em, Dan.

    Meanwhile, y’all ain’t gonna believe this:
    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/its_sunny_all_year_round_at_th_1.php
    If this keeps McCain might win them all.

  98. Dan Collins says:

    I’ve got a whole round up of that stuff here, B Moe.

  99. Sdferr says:

    Vitamin D during the winter too hard to come by up there, maybe? Nah, I’ll bet she secretly grows champion Alaska cabbages in the thing.

  100. ST says:

    or I am going to expose you for the fucktard libellous bastard you are.

    And how exactly are you going to do that?

    A stern letter to Comcast?

    Fuck you.

  101. And how exactly are you going to do that?

    He already did.

  102. Pablo says:

    So, you’ve got nothing, ST. Is that about right? Not counting the bootprint on your ass, of course.

  103. sears poncho says:

    Look out, ST’s internet muscles seem awfully big

  104. ST says:

    Yeah, I’ll be waiting here for the Comcast Rules Police.

    Just like the last 16 times I called out a wingnut for being full of shit.

  105. sears poncho says:

    You still haven’t showed where Dan is full of shit. Still sound like the punk here

  106. Sdferr says:

    Calling out and exhibiting coherence are not the same thing there, SinTramp, but you knew that already didn’t you?

  107. thor says:

    #

    Comment by Dan Collins on 9/15 @ 8:49 pm #

    Criminal? You mean for doing prescription drugs, like Obama?

    Leave the prescription drugs out of this, buster! Cyndi McCain ain’t trying to get herself elected as a pharmacist.

  108. Darleen says:

    B Moe

    WTF is it with the scary The news of Palin’s luxurious purchase — beds can cost as much as $35,000 — presents a sharp contrast to the blue-collar persona she projects on the campaign trail.

    a quick Google shows a used bed could be had for $1500-$4000 … Kinda like buying a 40″ flat screen TV and accessories.

  109. ST says:

    His sponsorship by and of a race-baiting, conspiracy-mongering asshole pastor doesn’t reflect on him at all, right?

    Question is loaded to the point of absurdity.

    The fact that he’s got Jim Johnson and Franklin Raines as benefactors and advisors and tries to blame the mortgage meltdown on the Republicans doesn’t bother you.

    Nope. I am quite comfortable in blaming the current financial crisis on Republican notions of free market self-correction.

    I forget the rest, but who cares. They were talking points that you wouldn’t have dreamed of in a million years.

  110. Bmeuppls says:

    ST = Stupid Troll

    Outed himself he did…

  111. B Moe says:

    I forget the rest, but who cares.

    I have tears rolling down my cheeks.

  112. B Moe says:

    Darleen. They also seem to be blissfully unaware that six months of darkness is a real health issue up there. If only they were a little more worldly.

  113. happyfeet says:

    There are for real health reasons for tanning beds at that latitude. Vitamin D. I know cause Mr. Reynolds likes vitamin D. A lot. Almost as much as telomeres. Also seasonal affective whatever. NPR does that story for filler all the time.

  114. happyfeet says:

    oh. Yes. What B Moe said I mean.

  115. Darleen says:

    ST

    Nope. I am quite comfortable in blaming the current financial crisis on Republican notions of free market self-correction

    Obviously you haven’t been paying attention…there is more regulation now than even before.

    sarbane oxley ring a bell, dipshit?

    YOu know that Obamessiah voted FOR Bush corporate welfare bills and McCain voted AGAINST them?

    Does the name Charlie Rangel, Chairman of the House Ways and Means tickle a couple of your only firing synapses?

  116. Darleen says:

    B Moe

    Those that bring it up and shouted down … then there’s the commenter that said if Palin used the bed while pregnant it demonstrated her “poor judgment”

    and there’s the attempt of saying she’s been getting “rich” on per diem…

    I’m agog at the PMS.

  117. happyfeet says:

    TPM has the bestest commenters!

    On a more humorous note, how about if she lets her pasty white running mate take 20 minute naps in the tanning bed?

    Oh, wait: something about that mistaken, left-wing belief about a tenuous connection between exposure to such frequencies of light and skin cancer… Maybe she is planning to ‘bake’ her way in to the oval office. Hmm.

    Bye you guys I’m gonna go hang with the cool TPM kids.

  118. ST says:

    Yeah Darleen, it’s all Clinton’s fault.

  119. B Moe says:

    Yeah Darleen, it’s all Clinton’s fault.

    Actually it is your fault, ST, and all of your friends, for being dumb as a damn fence post and still trying to get involved in politics and economics.

  120. Topsecretk9 says:

    Really? Compared to Obama he’s as calm as the Rock of Gibraltar. Seriously; McCain’s VP pick has sent Obama into a two-week panic,

    No kidding. He’s the biggest weeny, crybaby I’ve ever seen run for office. Sack up Barry!

  121. free market self-correction.

    Ah, yes. Government-subsidized mortgages. Right out of Adam Smith and von Mises, that is.

    Tool.

  122. B Moe says:

    Bye you guys I’m gonna go hang with the cool TPM kids.

    Write if you find work.

  123. The Monster says:

    Yeah, I’ll be waiting here for the Comcast Rules Police.

    No need, man. The Cyber Squad of the VRWC has already hacked into your computer. The Comcast Cops are the least of your worries.

  124. The Monster says:

    I hate it when links fail utterly.

    KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!

  125. Gray says:

    “thor”:

    Leave the prescription drugs out of this, buster! Cyndi McCain ain’t trying to get herself elected as a pharmacist.

    OK, knock it off Jeff. We know that’s you. It’s fuckin funny, but that blew your cover…

  126. ST says:

    Actually it is your fault, ST, and all of your friends, for being dumb as a damn fence post and still trying to get involved in politics and economics.

    B Moe – 9/11.

    Epic.
    Fail.
    Bush.

  127. B Moe says:

    My apologies to fence posts everywhere.

  128. Darleen says:

    ST

    If you think the mortgage thing was an example of “free market” then I suggest you repeating Econ 101, maybe a English class too

    BTW… While Obama is off imitating Professor Irwin Corey in claiming we are now in the GREAT DEPRESSION

    Unemployment today 6%
    Unemployement Great Depression 25%
    Foreclosure today – subprime 4.7%
    Foreclosure Great Depression 50%

    The majority of people with loans, even subprimes loans are SERVICING THEM.

    But a lot of people find themselves an upsidedown mortgage because they were playing musical chairs with the market future and got caught without a chair. And they have no moral qualms about saying “fuck it” and just walking away. Especially the people who got caught up in the “flip this house” mentality.

    And why were loan instruments out there for people with no paperwork, no downpayment, lousy credit? Because the GOVERNMENT (hello Rangel) said banks were big bad meanies for being too picky and thus maybe RACIST.

  129. Darleen says:

    B Moe

    If you think that TPM thing was out there silly… the excreble Frank Rich has gone one or two rings about Saturn… the selection of Palin is a conspiracy to control McCain

    It’s an urgent matter, because if we’ve learned anything from the G.O.P. convention and its aftermath, it’s that the 2008 edition of John McCain is too weak to serve as America’s chief executive. This unmentionable truth, more than race, is now the real elephant in the room of this election.

    No longer able to remember his principles any better than he can distinguish between Sunnis and Shia, McCain stands revealed as a guy who can be easily rolled by anyone who sells him a plan for “victory,” whether in Iraq or in Michigan. A McCain victory on Election Day will usher in a Palin presidency, with McCain serving as a transitional front man, an even weaker Bush to her Cheney.

    The ambitious Palin and the ruthless forces she represents know it, too. You can almost see them smacking their lips in anticipation, whether they’re wearing lipstick or not.

    It only gets weirder. I keep picturing guys in white suits coming up behind Frank with a big BIG net.

  130. ST says:

    Because the GOVERNMENT (hello Rangel) said banks were big bad meanies for being too picky and thus maybe RACIST.

    For fuck’s sake…what the hell is wrong with you people?

    Listen: We need Republicans to get back to their roots. We need them to be the sane input on feasible spending. We need them to crunch realistic numbers on defense budgets.

    We don’t need them to go batshit insane just to get elected.

    Relax, all of you.

  131. B Moe says:

    Listen: We need Republicans to get back to their roots. We need them to be the sane input on feasible spending. We need them to crunch realistic numbers on defense budgets.

    Uh-huh. What do you need the Democrats to do?

  132. ST says:

    Uh-huh. What do you need the Democrats to do?

    To stop being pussies.

  133. We need Republicans

    Who is “we”?

    That’s what I thought.

  134. Topsecretk9 says:

    If you’d like to raise your blood pressure on just how corrupt Obama’s advisers Jim Johnson and Franklin Raines were with your tax dollars while London was burning…

    A Medici With Your MoneyFannie Mae’s strategic generosity.
    By Matthew Cooper• Posted Sunday, Feb. 23, 1997, at 3:30 AM ET

    James A. Johnson, chairman of both the Kennedy Center and the Brookings Institution, has become, at age 53, Washington, D.C.’s Medici. But even though he makes some $5 million a year off the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae), of which he is also chairman, he is not a philanthropist with his own money. The fount of Johnson’s generosity is Fannie Mae’s foundation, funded out of its profits, which gives away millions every year in the District and elsewhere.

    Of course, it is common these days for corporate CEOs to enjoy the perks, status, gratitude, and frisson of generosity that comes from giving away the stockholders’ money. What makes Fannie Mae special is that it is essentially the taxpayers’ money that Johnson is giving away…

    …”Showing America a New Way Home” is the slogan. That is also the name of Johnson’s recent book–a 175-page tract that pleads for still more subsidies while cloaking itself in high-mindedness. The book is a parody of Bartlett’s

    Sounds like Obama’s book. But, you don’t say

    Fannie Mae Shuts Down Foundation

    Saturday, February 24, 2007; Page A01

    Fannie Mae said yesterday that it would shut down its foundation, one of the biggest donors to local charities and a longtime lightning rod for criticism that the company was using tax-exempt contributions to advance corporate interests…

    …Major recipients of past foundation grants have included Harvard University, where former Fannie Mae chairman Franklin D. Raines was president of the board of overseers, and Arena Stage, a District theater where Raines’s wife, Wendy Farrow Raines, was board chairman.

    Its closing is part of a broader upheaval at Fannie Mae over the past few years that began with allegations of accounting manipulations

    …Sen. Charles E. Grassley of Iowa, ranking Republican on the Finance Committee, issued a statement yesterday saying that he was examining whether foundations such as Fannie Mae’s engage in inappropriate political activity. Grassley raised questions a year ago as to whether Fannie Mae had abused the foundation’s tax status to skirt campaign-finance and lobbying laws.

    …The foundation’s board , though separate from the corporation, has been chaired by Fannie Mae chief executives and populated with other company officials. The company funded the foundation with irregular contributions — $650 million in stock since 1995, and $12.5 million in cash late last year.

    There are 13,289 grants to search online HERE

    Go ahead. Search ACORN or Center for Community Change. What’s Center for Community Change you ask? It’s another far leftist “community organizing” groups headed up by Deepak Bhargava, who happens to be on ACORNS Organizers’ Forum Board and contributor to their publication “Social Policy” with Noam Chomsky.

    Seriously. Search the Fannie Mae Foundation grant site above and you will find all the usual suspects on all the same or various boards of a multitude of “community organization” groups they funded generously and a bunch of other not on Fannie Mae topic (like art programs and reading to children programs” imperialist spending of OUR tax dollars.

    It will blow your mind.

  135. thor says:

    Comment by Darleen on 9/15 @ 11:00 pm #

    If you think the mortgage thing was an example of “free market” then I suggest you repeating Econ 101, maybe a English class too

    The fuck do you know about Econ and free markets, ya blowhard?

    Know anything about PSA speeds on CMOs?

    Mmm, hmm.

  136. thor says:

    Chirp, chirp.

  137. thor says:

    Why do mortgage-backeds in general trade with wide spreads?

  138. ST says:

    Spies, Brigands, and Pirates:

    “We” would be my country.

    As for my political affiliation:

    Let’s just say that I supported the prolonged effort to assassinate Saddam Hussein until it turned into something much more complicated.

    Afterwords, I felt like a fool.

  139. thor says:

    Inverse floaters, who needs ’em?

  140. “We” would be my country.

    Oh? I don’t recall electing “you” to speak for me.

  141. Topsecretk9 says:

    Or search Jamie Gorelick’s – Urban Institute or Washington Legal Clinic

    Dems are knee deep in their own private Enron it’s crazy. Especially with the FBI investigating.

  142. thor says:

    So many here with so many strong opinions, so c’mon. We’re not talking direct agency paper, we’re talking about what tore the timber apart, mortgage-backeds.

    How about single family housings in the muni market? Any salient commentary?

    chirp, chirp

  143. Nick H says:

    By outrage over the Kerry swiftboat sleaze campaign do you mean people wearing Purple Heart bandaids at the Republican Convention in 2004?

    As a veteran I would never question another vet’s service record, anyone who would is a piece of shit (yeah you, Karl Rove). There are plenty of pertinent issues the Democrats can use to attack McCain. Whpo cares about this nitwit Palin? Not me. This eñlection is all about the economy and the wars (sort of the same thing).

  144. Poor thor.

    He thinks people are still paying attention to what he says.

    Pitiful, innit?

  145. thor says:

    Seems to me when it comes to the “mortgage crisis” most here aren’t very knowledgeable as to the intricacies or the nature of the securities that brought down so many houses on Wall Street.

    Don’t worry your little heads, it’ll only cost you taxpayers about $200-billion to recap FNMA and FMAC in the short term. That’s not much when compared to the cost of the Iraq war, not even close if one adds the bond interest onto those costs.

    Sleep tight.

  146. thor says:

    #

    Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 9/16 @ 12:15 am #

    Poor thor.

    He thinks people are still paying attention to what he says.

    Pitiful, innit?

    Poor Spies, he just doesn’t have the “chops” for it.

  147. thor says:

    Spies is no nishi.

  148. pan says:

    There’s no outrage becasue it’s fringe crap and it’s not catching on with any dems. The Swift Boat BS, however, became hugely popular on the right, complete with the band-aids shamefully displayed on the floor of the convention. It’s really that simple.

  149. Topsecretk9 says:

    So many here with so many strong opinions, so c’mon.

    This Pussy can’t even answer a simple yes or no question.

  150. ST says:

    >>>> Spies, Brigands, and Pirates

    Who the fuck are you anyway?

  151. Topsecretk9 says:

    BTW ya’ll

    Isn’t this just fucking classic Obama without a telepromter

    If we’re going to ask questions about, you know, who has been promulgating negative ads that are completely unrelated to the issues at hand, I think I win that contest pretty handily,” Obama said.

    I think McCain can forget to sword. A toothpick will be all he needs.

  152. Topsecretk9 says:

    BornAliveTruth.org or Infanticide?

  153. Topsecretk9 says:

    OMG — now this is just fucking precious:

    It appears Barack Obama’s teleprompter is hitting the campaign trail.

    The Democratic presidential nominee has never tried to hide the fact he delivers speeches off the device, though normally he doesn’t use one at standard campaign rallies and town hall events.

    But the Illinois senator used a teleprompter at both his Colorado events Monday — making for a particularly peculiar scene in Pueblo, where the prompter was set up in the middle of what is normally a rodeo ring.

    Filed under: Barack Obama

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/15/obamas-teleprompter-hits-the-trail/

  154. chuck says:

    Yep…this is another looser for the Democrats. So some unknown dude who says he was a POW thinks MacCain shouldn’t be President.

    Opinions are like A** Holes, everybody has one.

  155. Barrett Brown says:

    “Yep…this is another looser for the Democrats. So some unknown dude who says he was a POW thinks MacCain shouldn’t be President.”

    It sounds as if you are alleging that this fellow might not actually be a POW. Perhaps I am reading this incorrectly.

  156. Barrett Brown says:

    “Poor thor.

    He thinks people are still paying attention to what he says.”

    Spies, I would like you to read over what you’ve written here and think really, really hard about how one might find this to be a very hilarious and ironic thing to say.

  157. MAJ (P) John says:

    Barrett, if you wish to place yourself in league with someone who mocks children with Downs Syndrome, be our guest…

    Back to this lovely dust storm in Baghdad then…

  158. I defecate in PBS tote bags says:

    The key thing about the swift boat veterans is that they were at war with Kerry for decades. It was a matter that transcended politics. And while they may have been over the top in their hatred of him it was not a cynical and wholly fabricated political venture as the left would have people believe or even delude themselvess into thinking. Kerry was up there with the most vile personages on the left like Jane Fonda to a great many veterans.

    Just watching John Kerry proclaim that he was “reporting for duty” at the Dem convention made my uncle, who is an old school Minneapolis liberal and Viet Nam veteran want to reach into his television and punch him in his shriveled ball sack.

    I wish the Democrats good luck wwith their scummy, clueless efforts here.

  159. Spies, I would like you to read over what you’ve written here and think really, really hard about how one might find this to be a very hilarious and ironic thing to say.

    Poor Barrett. He’s still confused by the difference between “debating” and “mocking”. That’s an odd disability for a professional humor guy.

  160. BJTexs says:

    So let me see if I understand the logical progression here: McCain was a wild man in his early to mid 20’s which is a reflection of an intemperate temperament and, thus, disqualifies him to be president in his 70’s despite over 40 years of distinguished public service. This we are to take as gospel coming from a Professor of Sociology and former POW who was not quartered with McCain and has dedicated himself to Democratic causes,specifically Veterans for Peace.

    However, Obama’s admitted cocaine use, involvement with characters like Alinsky style organizers, Ayers and Jeremiah Wright and his utter lack of accomplishment and executive experience in public service are not important considerations when making a choice for president.

    OK, OK I get it. Someone recently discovered a heretofore unknown Fellini movie lost for decades in the basement of his Italian manor. Both McCain and Obama are eerily presented as characters along with balloons, sad clowns and fat prostitutes.

    Now it all makes sense.

  161. Slartibartfast says:

    He thinks people are still paying attention to what he says.

    Spies, I would like you to read over what you’ve written here and think really, really hard about how one might find this to be a very hilarious and ironic thing to say.

    Hilarious and ironic right back at you for responding to it. And to me for responding to you.

    Lather. Rinse.

  162. Nick H says:

    Scummy, clueless efforts seem to work well in American elections—just ask Bush. Just ask John McCain about Bush. Remember? How many of you people were defending Kerry when he was being attacked by the phony swiftboaters?

    I think that ad is ridiculous and should be pulled immediately. Who cares what one dried up old dude thinks about another? Let’s keep to the issues and forget all of this character assassination business. I think we have enough in the way of real problems to discuss to get constantly side-tracked by this sort of nonsense. Was or wasn’t John McCain a hero, lipstick on a pig, knocked-up teenage sluts…who gives a fuck?

    Is it too late to change my screen name to “I fart in the general direction of dittoheads?”

  163. B Moe says:

    Seems to me when it comes to the “mortgage crisis” most here aren’t very knowledgeable as to the intricacies or the nature of the securities that brought down so many houses on Wall Street.

    Seems to me somebody too stupid to understand the concept of thread topics shouldn’t throw stones.

  164. Pablo says:

    Nick, are you saying that John O’Neil is a phony? How so?

  165. B Moe says:

    Let’s keep to the issues and forget all of this character assassination business.

    And brave Nick managed to maintain that sentiment for all of two sentences.

    “I fart in the general direction of dittoheads?” Indeed.

  166. alppuccino says:

    knocked-up teenage sluts

    If stupid were wind, dependence on foreign oil would be eliminated by simply placing a few windmills in close proximity to Nick H.

  167. Jim says:

    Oh, I’m sorry, I thought this was abuse.

  168. I defecate in PBS tote bags says:

    “Is it too late to change my screen name to “I fart in the general direction of dittoheads?””

    I’m not sure most dittoheads would recognize your farts as such. The flatulence produced by effeminate gaia liberal dietary habits has a rather alien smell to real people. I imagine the inverse is also true. That’s why I go for meaty, fully-realized turdness when expressing myself in a PBS totebag.

  169. Mark A. Flacy says:

    Nick H.,

    As a veteran I would never question another vet’s service record, anyone who would is a piece of shit (yeah you, Karl Rove).

    As a veteran, I would say that anyone who does’t question portions of Senator Kerry’s service record is a stupid piece of shit.

  170. Rob Crawford says:

    then there’s the commenter that said if Palin used the bed while pregnant it demonstrated her “poor judgment”

    Eh? I guess it isn’t clear to me how this is poor judgement.

  171. Rob Crawford says:

    Or search Jamie Gorelick’s – Urban Institute or Washington Legal Clinic

    Gorelick again?! Why hasn’t anyone in the press done their due diligence and started digging into this woman’s record? She’s been at the center of some of the biggest stories in the last decade, and the press is more concerned with the possibility of a tanning bed in the Alaska governor’s mansion…

  172. Slartibartfast says:

    that brought down so many houses on Wall Street

    I missed this whole Wall Street home-demolition thing, I guess.

  173. Lisa says:

    Ratfucking is not just for Republicans anymore.

  174. She’s been at the center of some of the biggest stories in the last decade

    Yep.

  175. Rob Crawford says:

    How many of you people were defending Kerry when he was being attacked by the phony swiftboaters?

    What “phony swiftboaters”? Surely you’re not talking about the people who served with him, right?

  176. […] pointed this out yesterday in a comment, but here’s Ed Morrissey: Who is Freddoso, anyway?  [Frodo’s bigger […]

  177. Rob Crawford says:

    Ratfucking is not just for Republicans anymore.

    WTH are you talking about?

  178. Ratfucking is not just for Republicans anymore.

    Lisa, care to give us a rundown on exactly what “lies” the SBVFT told?

    Or is that just one of those things that “everybody knows”?

  179. Slartibartfast says:

    Even though she had no previous training nor experience in finance, Gorelick was appointed Vice Chairman of FNMA from 1997 to 2003. She served alongside former Clinton Administration official Franklin Raines, and earned over 26 million during her six years there. During that period, FNMA developed a $10 billion accounting scandal. [10] One example of falsified financial transactions that helped the company meet earnings targets for 1998, a “manipulation” that triggered multimillion-dollar bonuses for top executives. [11] Gorelick received $779,625.

    Sweeeeet deal. See, not all FOBs wind up dead.

  180. Slartibartfast says:

    Or is that just one of those things that “everybody knows”?

    Everybody knows that you love me baby
    Everybody knows that you really do
    Everybody knows that youve been faithful
    Ah give or take a night or two
    Everybody knows youve been discreet
    But there were so many people you just had to meet
    Without your clothes
    And everybody knows

  181. Rob Crawford says:

    SBP: Jeezus, I hadn’t realized she was also tied to the Duke University case. And she apparently made $26,000,000+ from her “work” at Fannie Mae!

    BUT SHE’S A HARVARD GRAD!!!

    Seriously, don’t you think if she was a Republican appointee, the press would be camped on her lawn?

  182. Mr. Pink says:

    I just heard on the local rap station in DC, 93.9, that Bristol Palin’s child is from a local black guy. True story people they said it was on YouTube somewhere.

  183. Rob Crawford says:

    Slart — best use of that song ever was in the 1994 movie “Exotica”.

  184. Mr. Pink says:

    Russ Parr rules.

  185. Slartibartfast says:

    Pump Up The Volume.

  186. SarahW says:

    BJTexas – Wild man? O do let’s hear from O’s college friends, those bad friends that seems to be the farking story of his life whenever it is not ghost-written by a poet.

  187. Barrett Brown says:

    “Poor Barrett. He’s still confused by the difference between “debating” and “mocking”.”

    Am I? Perhaps I should work on that. But I was simply pointing out that it is very funny indeed that you were paying attention to thor in the midst of claiming that no one is paying attention to thor. Had a liberal done such a thing, you would see the irony, I think.

    Regarding this ad, there’s definitely going to be some surreal ethical gymnastics among quite a few liberals who spent 2004 making blanket statements to the effect that one’s military service ought not to be questioned. Kerry and McCain both ran on it; both face scrutiny as a result.

    As for Jeff’s question about where the outrage is… well, some of it is here. And some of it will be expressed by those classy folks who wore purple band-aids to the 2004 convention.

  188. But I was simply pointing out that it is very funny indeed that you were paying attention to thor

    “Noting that thor has posted several messages” and “paying attention to what thor wrote” — also two different things, Barrett.

    As for irony, haven’t you declared yourself “done with me” on several occasions? What’s up with that?

  189. Mr. Pink says:

    Check it out I found the video. The father of Bristol’s baby is really this black kid.

    http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=VELIG92GDXw

  190. Slartibartfast says:

    I think he just can’t quit you, SB&P. Even though he tries and tries.

    You gotta give the guy credit. Most people would just give up on quitting you after the first dozen tries or so, but Barrett just keeps on keeping on.

  191. Slartibartfast says:

    The father of Bristol’s baby is really this black kid.

    This is important, relevant or interesting…how, exactly?

  192. Barrett Brown says:

    Actually, Spies, this is what I wrote:

    “1. You provide me with a news article reprinted on a candidate’s web site and claim that it is a position paper.
    2. I provide you with a news article reprinted on a candidate’s web site and assert that, if X is a position paper, then X must also be a position paper.
    3. You attack me for claiming that a news article reprinted on a candidate’s web site is a position paper.

    I want you to do something for me; I want you to read 1-3 over and over and over again until you figure out why it is that I’m done wasting my time trying to discuss anything with you.”

    Discussion is different that mocking, as you say. I never said I wouldn’t stop by and mock you every once in a while.

    Now, here’s the really hilarious part; after I had thus explained to you that A=A and that I’m not going to argue with someone who seems to think otherwise, you yourself claimed that, in fact, you were done with *me*. And yet here you are, trying to quote me as having said I was “done with” you, when, in fact, that was your exact quote, as seen here:

    proteinwisdom.com/?p=13193#comment-526749

    This is not to say that you are necessarily the most deranged fellow whom I’ve come across here, but you’re up there, and, again, a living symptom of what ails the GOP.

  193. B Moe says:

    Well if you had looked at part 2 of that youtube, slart, you would see the kid has a rap song out about the experience and he is trying to start a music career.

    Always got to keep a brother down, don’t you?

  194. alppuccino says:

    The purple band-aids were kind of a subtle mockery of Kerry’s “Reporting for duty” and “I have 3 Purple Hearts” bit. It was very Barrett Brownish. Take it as cudos to RNC and the BB, or the other way.

  195. B Moe says:

    Jesus Christ, will you two go get a room.

  196. Discussion is different that mocking, as you say.

    So the light begins to dawn?

    By the way, what is Obama’s Afghanistan policy? Did you ever manage to come up with, you know, an actual source for that?

    Since you’re still playing incompetent semantic games by claiming that “position paper” and “news article” are disjoint sets, I’m thinking no.

  197. alppuccino says:

    Looks like, with my oft-typo style, I’ve upgraded Barrett to Donald Trump status. So be it.

  198. Jesus Christ, will you two go get a room.

    Sorry, B Moe. I’m done with Barrett. This time for sure. I promise.

  199. Mr. Pink says:

    Only reason I brought it up is the local Obama boosters on the local rap station were pushing this crap. I wonder how many NYTimes reporters are on the case?

  200. Ric Locke says:

    Nick, Lisa —

    There’s this constant mantra coming from your side that the “allegation” of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have been debunked, and are all lies.

    Fine. Show me.

    Find me a Web site that summarizes the “debunking”. But before you post the link, look it over for two things, however phrased: John O’Neill is a Republican operative and Kerry released his service records. Both of those statements are bald-faced lies, and if the “debunking” includes them it can be disregarded.

    The first of those is something I know personally from my own observation. I’ve met John O’Neill, very briefly. He was helping raise funds for Howard Dean in the runup to the primaries. Kind of a funny occupation for a “Republican operative”, hey?

    The second is something you can establish for yourself with a little Googling. There is a form, DD-180, which a veteran must sign before a third party can access his or her service record under the Privacy Act. Find me Kerry’s signature on a DD-180. You won’t, because he never signed one that allows public access. What he did do was release partial records to a political ally in the Press, who then assured us that there was nothing there. In contrast, Bush’s service records are entirely public.

    Beyond that, there is one factor you cannot get over, under, around, or through: there are something fewer than three hundred individuals on the entire planet, over all of history, who can legitimately be termed “Swift Boat veterans”. They served in a small unit under fire, isolated from the rest of the effort, and thus came to know one another well. Almost three-quarters of those people were willing to come forward and make a public statement, which is remarkable in itself given that they knew Press sentiment was against them — and of that number, all but five say John Kerry is a scumbag, and of those five two retired from view as much as possible as soon as they could. Whatever bluster and obfuscation you may manage about the specific allegations, the fact remains that three-quarters of the people who knew Kerry at a juncture in his life that he declares pivotal say he’s unfit for office, and almost all of the remainder simply abstain from comment.

    In contrast, all of the people who were imprisoned with McCain plus a small but significant sample of his jailers say McCain behaved admirably and honorably; we have one person who says otherwise, but who was not directly acquainted at the time, in fact was in another prison, is known to have “caved” to the torture and cooperated with the NVs (which is, in fact, why he was in another prison), and whose career since then has been as a political advocate supporting “peace” in the form of the Winter Soldier allegations and subsequent nonsense, most of which has been “debunked” by, among other things, the testimony of one of the Soviet propagandists who dreamed it up and disseminated it.

    Regards,
    Ric

  201. Sdferr says:

    B Moe, room Citizen Journo for you and me.

  202. Mr. Pink says:

    John Kerry also had to retract his fond memories of Christmas in Cambodia which were “seared” in his mind.

  203. Barrett Brown says:

    “Looks like, with my oft-typo style, I’ve upgraded Barrett to Donald Trump status.”

    Sweet. I’m going to go find the worst barber in New York to complete the effect.

    “The purple band-aids were kind of a subtle mockery of Kerry’s “Reporting for duty” and “I have 3 Purple Hearts” bit. It was very Barrett Brownish. Take it as cudos to RNC and the BB, or the other way.”

    The band-aids were about as subtle as, well, Donald Trump’s sense of style. Now, the “reporting for duty” thing was among the most god-awful things I’ve ever seen; another time, Kerry actually drove a motorcycle onto the Letterman show or some such to show what a way-cool guy he was. So, yeah, Kerry is a douchebag, and anyone who says otherwise is a crypto-douchebag (with apologies to Vidal). My point, though, is that wearing purple band-aids to mock someone for having sustained only minor injuries in a war he chose to fight in is in pretty bad taste, to put it in the English manner. And something tells me that a lot of people here would be somewhat in agreement with me with regards to this if it was a Republican veteran who was being thus mocked. Again, I’m being English here.

  204. Slartibartfast says:

    The little engine that couldn’t. Dunno why they keep leaving that one out of the children’s books. There’s a lesson in there, somewhere.

  205. Darleen says:

    BB

    I was in high school during Kerry’s “Winter Soldier” testilying before Congress. I recall the far lefties on campus organizing a “black armband” week, getting permission from the admin to bring in outside speakers. I recall listening to these speakers (who, in typical form for the day, eschewed any formality of speaking at a podium but wandered our hallways setting up ad hoc “speak-ins” here and there) some of the most vile anti-military, conspiracy mongering you’ve every heard. Even modest counterprotesting (I was part of a group that wore red/white/blue armbands) was not to be tolerated. Any modest question to the speakers about the wildest claims got shouted down.

    Add to that my dad, a fierce advocate of the First Amendment (and a WWII, Korea vet), but who was aghast at Kerry’s testilying and actions.

    It was an experience that I believe you can’t and won’t understand.

    The factual accounts in the Swiftboat Vets book was never challenged by Kerry — one of the few smart moves he did. He was already exposed on his Christmas in Cambodia fantasy. 200 Vets lined up against him, only about 5 supported him.

    Which brings in mind something I’ve said upthread. Where are people from Barry’s past, college or the time before he moved to Chicago to be a “community organizer” to vouch for The One? Witnesses to his early miracles?

  206. Barrett Brown says:

    Damn, I used “was” for “were.” Speaking of English…

  207. Darleen says:

    argh…. “The factual accounts in the Swiftboat Vets book were never challenged by Kerry”

  208. happyfeet says:

    Hi, Barrett. I thought the purple band-aids were funny cause Kerry was a phony. I mean for real you have to honestly be able to tell me that if you were in a pickle behind enemy lines and bad guys were closing in that you would be all like hey what would be super great is if we had a young John Kerry here. He would know what to do. No. He’s a fop. But if he was there and you did get lucky and make it home your new best friend John would tell everybody that you made atrocities and also Jenjhis Khan was involved dead babies dead babies dead babies and you would really have a lot of misgivings about the whole episode. Later on what you might do is tell your story for a book and then NPR would call you a big fat liar and you would probably just have to kind of sigh and wonder why you didn’t just hook up with a fat rich lady instead of trying to speak truth to power like that.

  209. Darleen says:

    in a war he chose to fight

    But he didn’t. He found himself in it, but he didn’t choose it. And the mocking with the bandaids was to draw attention not to the wounds but this was the same Kerry who 30 years earlier was throwing his medals over the White House wall. Kerry never reconciled the different Kerrys on display.

  210. B Moe says:

    to mock someone for having sustained only minor injuries in a war he chose to fight in is in pretty bad taste, to put it in the English manner. And something tells me that a lot of people here would be somewhat in agreement with me with regards to this if it was a Republican veteran who was being thus mocked.

    They were mocking him for giving himself medals and a ticket home in a war he chose to fight. And find me a Republican veteran who chose to fight a war purely to gin up false moral authority to build a political career later opposing said war and we shall see how the opinions shake out.

  211. Barrett Brown says:

    Darleen-

    That’s all well and good. Likewise, there are plenty of vets who hate McCain because they think he closed the book on missing POWs too early, and Rove used that to Bush’s advantage in 2000, which pissed McCain off to some great extent, as you might imagine. Everybody’s got a grievance. My uncle, who served in Vietnam, sure as hell doesn’t feel the need to mock or downplay anybody’s war injuries, for instance. But a lot of trashy GOP convention attendees did feel the need to do so.

  212. happyfeet says:

    Hey. I use was for were all the time. When you need to get your subjunctive on I don’t think it matters how you do it as long as you get it done is what I think.

  213. alppuccino says:

    The band-aids were about as subtle as, well, Donald Trump’s sense of style

    Unless The Donald’s lack of style is his style. Then, well, you’ve got subtlety out the bunghole.

  214. B Moe says:

    I don’t think the band-aids were intended to be subtle, Barrett. Subtle doesn’t really play well at a party convention.

  215. Mr. Pink says:

    BB are you even going to acknowledge that the Swifties made John Kerry retract about 2 or 3 lies during the course of the campaign or are you going to ignore that and move on to another goalpost?

  216. happyfeet says:

    Subtle also doesn’t get talked about like four years later.

  217. Slartibartfast says:

    I think the issue was not so much the superficiality of the injuries as it was Kerry’s making use of them to exit the theater of war at his earliest possible opportunity.

    And then, decades later, attempting to frame himself as some kind of exemplar of military service. Which is what annoyed people, I think.

  218. happyfeet says:

    John Kerry is a liar and also he never released his records cause he’s hiding them cause he is ashamed. This is why you should have integrity and not be a sham.

  219. Learned Hand says:

    Amen to #200, Barrett.

    The singular ferocity with which certain commenters attack “opponents” is strange. All I ever hear from these sort of folks is “you should go to Daily Kos or Firedoglake and see how we are treated.”

    Whining AND moral equivalence….what an exhilarating combo!

    Still, there are normal people here. For instance, Mr. Locke (above) is almost always wrong, but always polite and respectful.

    Also, he is funny. John O’Neill, a man whom Nixon hired to rebut Kerry, was collecting money for Howard Dean! Well, searching the FEC’s database finds “a” John O’Neill who gave money to Howard Dean, but it wasn’t “the” John O’Neill (unless the John O’Neill is also a the President of the Center for Leadership in Sausalito, California AND a Houston-area attorney).

    Further, Mr. O’Neill’s own statements (gleaned from his well-sourced Wikipedia entry, which links to the FEC) indicate he has not supported a Dem Presidential candidate since Humphrey (why would he when he found out much being a right wing shill pays?).

    But, as I said Mr. Locke is always polite and I’m sure Mr. O’Neill probably did tell him all about raising money for the anti-war candidate in the 2004 election, given Mr. O’Neill’s long history of anti-war activities!

    More likely? Mr. Locke experienced personally what most of us have only experienced on our TV’s, i.e. a lie from John O’Neill.

    That must have been cool.

  220. Barrett Brown says:

    Okay, a lot of you seem to be saying the same general thing here, which is that the purple band-aids had nothing to do with his injuries, but rather with his medals. I suppose they were originally planning on wearing cute little phony medals, but those ended up being a tough thing to round up, so they decided to switch to band-aids instead. Just one of those things, eh?

  221. Dread Cthulhu says:

    BB: “The band-aids were about as subtle as, well, Donald Trump’s sense of style. Now, the “reporting for duty” thing was among the most god-awful things I’ve ever seen; another time, Kerry actually drove a motorcycle onto the Letterman show or some such to show what a way-cool guy he was. So, yeah, Kerry is a douchebag, and anyone who says otherwise is a crypto-douchebag (with apologies to Vidal). My point, though, is that wearing purple band-aids to mock someone for having sustained only minor injuries in a war he chose to fight in is in pretty bad taste, to put it in the English manner. And something tells me that a lot of people here would be somewhat in agreement with me with regards to this if it was a Republican veteran who was being thus mocked. Again, I’m being English here.”

    The first problem is that Kerry’s problem was that he wanted to cherry-pick a couple months of his life to wrap himself in for the election, to the total exclusion of the whole of his political career. His service in-country in no way innoculates him with regard to the decades he spent shitting on US military personal, from the so-called “Winter Soldier” investigation through his career in Congress. As they would say in the movies, “He chose… poorly.”

    As for mocking Kerry, he invited it upon himself. Running around in country with a movie camera, making films of him playing soldier? Please.

  222. happyfeet says:

    I’ve been to summer camps longer than John Kerry was in Vietnam. And I hurted myself bunches there too. I chose to stick it out though. They gave me a blanket with my name on it.

  223. B Moe says:

    Yup. Most people don’t chose to fight by hauling ass at the first opportunity. That is actually referred to as “not fighting” by most polite folks. My not so polite folks call it being a chicken shit.

  224. alppuccino says:

    To be fair, it was/were I who compared the subtlety of the purple band aids to the subtlety of BB’s mockery. Barrett only responded that he might be in the market for a wicked comb-over.

  225. Dread Cthulhu says:

    BB: “I suppose they were originally planning on wearing cute little phony medals, but those ended up being a tough thing to round up, so they decided to switch to band-aids instead. Just one of those things, eh?”

    Not to be too much of a stickler, but it is illegal for an individual to wear a medal to which they are no entitled.

  226. Slartibartfast says:

    I don’t know that I wouldn’t have taken the Purple Hearts and gone home, myself. I just like to think that I wouldn’t try to paint myself as a courageous commander, later.

  227. Darleen says:

    BTW The One is in El-Lay today for his $28K/plate fund raiser with the Hollywood elite (Babs is a featured eliter). Wonder if he’ll wow them with more “bitter clingers” jokes about the hoi poloi he figures he is superior enough to rule and tell ’em how to live.

  228. happyfeet says:

    John Kerry thought he was such a stud he could balance the ticket by putting a walking talking vagina man on the ticket with him, but actually that made two fey girly boys on the same ticket and we were at war and the American people looked at that and said er, no is what happened.

  229. B Moe says:

    Okay, a lot of you seem to be saying the same general thing here…

    And that is my cue to go do something productive, and let Barrett continue the argument with what I seem to be saying rather than what I said.

    Give ’em hell, champ.

  230. Darleen says:

    Kerry left after 4 months in country, McCain turned down an offer to be released early.

    Kerry windsurfs, McCain can’t do any repetitive movement for any length of time.

  231. Barrett Brown says:

    First off, guys, I’m not the one who claimed they were subtle. alpaccino or whatever said that. I responded that they weren’t subtle. Then several people tell me that I’m wrong about them being subtle or intended to be subtle. This sort of thing happens quite a bit here, and what’s strange is that I’ve posted in many a political forum in my day and had never found myself asked to defend a position that I’ve been arguing arguing against until I started posting here.

    “BB are you even going to acknowledge that the Swifties made John Kerry retract about 2 or 3 lies during the course of the campaign or are you going to ignore that and move on to another goalpost?”

    I was never asked to acknowledge this, but I do acknowledge it insomuch as that Kerry claimed to have been in Cambodia at one point when he clearly wasn’t. I’m not sure what other charges panned out, but suffice to say that I’d have to look into it myself rather than taking your word for it.

    “John Kerry is a liar and also he never released his records cause he’s hiding them cause he is ashamed. This is why you should have integrity and not be a sham.”

    … and, of course, the reason that I don’t take anyone’s word for anything, particularly around here, is that many of you tend to get your news from other conservative blog commenters or e-mail forwards or something. Kerry’s records were indeed released. Here they are, along with the president’s. So… yeah.

    news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/election2004/docs.html

  232. Mr. Pink says:

    Again 3 or 4 comments later and he moved the goalposts even further. Neither one of these douchebags will even admit that John Kerry lied about several things. His testimony of personally witnessing war crimes, being in Cambodia on Christmas, and throwing his medals away.

  233. happyfeet says:

    Ohnoes. Barrett put that last comment where Ric might could read it.

  234. Sdferr says:

    Here is John McCain’s cellmate Leo Thorsness short piece in the NYT, “A Prisoner’s Mind”.

  235. Mr. Pink says:

    So you admit he lied about being in Cambodia on Christmas, an allegation which accused a sitting President of encroaching on the national sovereignty of another nation and maybe starting another war. Yet you seem more angry at idiot Republicans wearing purple arm bands at a convention. Somehow to me those don’t seem equivalent at all. So your saying if one of those purple arm band guys runs for president I should vote against him, but if John McCain was found to be lying about some of his time as a POW then it would be just fine and dandy?

  236. Barrett Brown says:

    “Again 3 or 4 comments later and he moved the goalposts even further. Neither one of these douchebags will even admit that John Kerry lied about several things. His testimony of personally witnessing war crimes, being in Cambodia on Christmas, and throwing his medals away.”

    I’m having some trouble understanding what you’re trying to say here, and I suspect that you do as well. I just said that I agree about Kerry having lied about the Cambodia incursion. I don’t know enough his winter soldier testimony to make a judgment about the rest, as it’s my policy not to make assertions about things without enough information. If you have a link you’d like me to read, I will read it. If you don’t, then, you know, I don’t know what to tell you, sweetheart. You can just call me names if you’d like.

  237. alppuccino says:

    …not to mention that John Kerry has the perfect shaped face for looking down his nose at his lessers.

  238. SarahW says:

    I’m to pokey to do much but watch posts go by today. It’s seems like a good day for that.

  239. BTW The One is in El-Lay today for his $28K/plate fund raiser with the Hollywood elite

    And while Barry is tied up blowing Matt Damon and his buddies to help keep the checks from bouncing, McCain and Palin are campaigning 7/24.

    Sweet.

  240. alppuccino says:

    alpaccino or whatever

    Geez Barrett. See comment #232. And I’m a whoever dammit!

  241. Barrett Brown says:

    “So you admit he lied about being in Cambodia on Christmas, an allegation which accused a sitting President of encroaching on the national sovereignty of another nation and maybe starting another war.”

    Ummm… you know that Nixon secretly bombed Cambodia, right? Are you saying that Kerry’s silly claims were more likely to start another war than, say, committing an act of war?

    “Yet you seem more angry at idiot Republicans wearing purple arm bands at a convention.”

    Likewise, you seem more angry at me than you are at Robert Mugabe for killing all those people. Look, I can play this game too. But I prefer Oblivion, Spore, Dwarf Fortress, those kinds of games. This one’s too easy.

    Hell, let’s play the outrage game anyway. Remember Kosovo? Remember how all the little GOP senators and pundits felt about that one? Here’s a tip – don’t ever, ever go Google that shit. Your head will explode.

    “So your saying if one of those purple arm band guys runs for president I should vote against him, but if John McCain was found to be lying about some of his time as a POW then it would be just fine and dandy?”

    Uh, no? What? Uh? Guh? Gobble gobble wee gobble gobble gobble goo?

  242. Mr. Pink says:

    Complete unedited John Kerry testimony accusing US soldiers of war crimes. And yes I am aware of Republican opposition to Kosovo.
    http://www.c-span.org/2004vote/jkerrytestimony.asp

  243. happyfeet says:

    As long as you are feeling better SarahW, I think that is a good thing. There is dyspepsia all overs. I’m not feeling it except for work, which is arduous and pressurey. But the days are beautiful here, cool and autumnal and Baracky is losing and crying like a woman on those soap operas in espanol and newspapers are shedding readers like fall leaves. Change. I’ll take it.

  244. SarahW says:

    Barrett, I think I know why Kerry’s silly claims were important. I think you do, too.

  245. Mr. Pink says:

    Nah let’s talk about some idiots wearing purple arm bands. Kerry, who was running for president on his war record, can say anything he wants.

  246. SarahW says:

    Hf Imagery: better than a walk around the lake.

  247. Barrett Brown says:

    “Nah let’s talk about some idiots wearing purple arm bands. Kerry, who was running for president on his war record, can say anything he wants.”

    Look, if you, unlike a few other people here, admit that those band-aids were tacky at the very least, then I’ve got no quarrel with you. I’ve got to roll out anyway; take it easy, all.

  248. happyfeet says:

    Well yes the band-aids were tacky, in response to Mr. Reporting For Duty’s tacky ostentatiousness and also cowardice. But that’s not the same as out of bounds. No one likes calling someone a coward but the Iraqi people are sure glad we did cause Mr. Reporting For Duty would have abandoned them to depradations of terrorist people and Iran and a generally hopeless future of death and tyranny and then Duty boy would have said well don’t blame me it was Bush’s war and it’s his genocide, too. Tacky band-aids. Good call I think.

  249. Dread Cthulhu says:

    BB: “Look, if you, unlike a few other people here, admit that those band-aids were tacky at the very least, then I’ve got no quarrel with you. ”

    It’s politics, Barret –MOST of politics is tacky, on one level or another.

    That said, Kerry was as dumb as a cinderblock. Substituting a expensive domestic motorcycle for his even more expensive foreign motorcycle in an effort to “connect with the common man” sticks in my memory, for starters.

  250. Ric Locke says:

    Oh, cool. It’s been a while since I’ve encountered a Democrat who knew enough about the situation to engage in effective misdirection.

    More later, when I have high-speed access. There are people with lives, you know.

    Regards,
    Ric

  251. Sdferr says:

    Obama and his strategists seem to me to believe they can provoke or goad McCain into a mistake by “questioning” McCain’s personal (peculiar) sense of honor. I don’t know whether Obama’s camp truly understands what McCain is about, but as yet their strategy has failed to get under McCain’s skin, so I suspect their understanding of him is faulty, so far. They may yet get it right (to their way of thinking), who can say? But I don’t think they will abandon the strategy based on the brief failure so far. Best of all (from their point of view) would be to pull it off during one of the debates.

    My meager evidence for this conjecture?:

    1) Obama’s attack ad issued yesterday challenging McCain’s campaign as the sleaziest, truly vile, disgraceful, dishonorable, deceptive.

    2) Obama asking a gathering of the International Association of Machinists four days ago, “When American workers hear John McCain talking about putting country first, it’s fair to ask – which country?

    3) The “McCain had it easy in Vietnamese prisons” meme appears to coincide with the advent of the strategy, approx. four days ago. I cannot claim the meme is driven by Axelrod and Co. as I have no direct proof of that, but it fits the pattern I see building.

    4) The appearance of Phillip Butler on the scene just now. Again, as with #3 above, I have no direct proof to show that Butler is being pushed forward by Axlerod and Co. I have only the pattern to guide my conjecture so far.

    I may prove to be wrong about all this. Certainly if this angle of attack on McCain peters out or ceases altogether I will believe I was wrong. If, on the other hand, the attacks in this vein continue and intensify, and particularly if they succeed as outlined above, well, maybe I’m noticing something there.

  252. Rob Crawford says:

    Barrette:

    Ummm… you know that Nixon secretly bombed Cambodia, right? Are you saying that Kerry’s silly claims were more likely to start another war than, say, committing an act of war?

    You have no idea what you’re talking about. Kerry claimed to have been in Cambodia, under the orders of Nixon, at a time when Nixon was not in office. Nixon hadn’t been inaugurated at the time Kerry claims the memory was “seared, seared” into his mind.

    That Nixon later ordered bombing against NVA supply lines running through Cambodia is immaterial; it has no bearing on the impossibility of Kerry’s claim.

    Once again, you’re either ignorant of the facts or arguing in bad faith.

  253. Rob Crawford says:

    Oh, cool. It’s been a while since I’ve encountered a Democrat who knew enough about the situation to engage in effective misdirection.

    Oh, but Barrette’s not a Democrat. He just sounds remarkably like one.

  254. SarahW says:

    ” Obama’s attack ad issued yesterday challenging McCain’s campaign as the sleaziest, truly vile, disgraceful, dishonorable, deceptive.”

    I don’t doubt y’all have noticed the astroturfing put out ahead of this ad in hopes of propping it up on little wooden legs. The intended buzz” appears in the form of electric loppers. I have hopes of IP’s getting linked to campaign monies.

  255. Slartibartfast says:

    Obama asking a gathering of the International Association of Machinists four days ago, “When American workers hear John McCain talking about putting country first, it’s fair to ask – which country?”

    Wow. Obama’s really bringing on an understanding of the Executive Branch, here.

  256. Slartibartfast says:

    That Nixon later ordered bombing against NVA supply lines running through Cambodia is immaterial; it has no bearing on the impossibility of Kerry’s claim.

    You don’t understand. Barrett’s attacking your tacit, blanket approval of everything Nixon has ever done.

    Get with the program, dude.

  257. Barrett Brown says:

    “Oh, but Barrette’s not a Democrat. He just sounds remarkably like one.”

    Oh, yeah, I sure do.

    http://www.eclectica.org/v4n4/brown_nazis.html

    Have you not noticed that Goldstein and I are friendly and that he knows that I’m a libertarian, and has actually posted in a couple of these threads to tell you guys to shut the fuck up with your ridiculous and demonstrably incorrect allegations about me? That we’re working together on a project? Do you think Goldstein would be inclined to work with a socialist? Maybe I’m just putting one over on him. But you’re too smart for that, eh? You should e-mail Goldstein right now and warn him that I’m a secret Democratic agitator, you brilliant little e-detective, you.

    Meanwhile, I neither said nor implied that Kerry was in Vietnam while Nixon was in office. I know that this fact will not dispel your fantasy that I did say or imply that, and that you totally called me out on something that I didn’t say or imply, but, hey, that’s life, huh?

    I’ve learned a lot from this blog.

  258. Great Mencken's Ghost! says:

    “An ad with McCain’s first wife talking smack about him would be fun.”

    CNN already did that in their bio of McCain. Helped, didn’t it?

  259. alppuccino says:

    Have you not noticed that Goldstein and I are friendly and that he knows that I’m a libertarian, and has actually posted in a couple of these threads to tell you guys to shut the fuck up with your ridiculous and demonstrably incorrect allegations about me? That we’re working together on a project?

    That’s from Bowfinger, right?

  260. Sdferr says:

    OT:

    Harvey Mansfield, “Was Feminism Necessary?”

    Just Harvey being his usual prickist self.

  261. Mr. Pink says:

    Meanwhile, I neither said nor implied that Kerry was in Vietnam while Nixon was in office.

    When you call the Swift Boat Veterans liars you are kinda implying that you are. You single out that instance of Kerry lying, because he came out and admitted he did. Yet you say the rest of the Swifties allegations are lies out of hand. Seems to me once they proved that one of their allegations were true, and that Kerry did lie, it would be an easy step to give them the benefit of the doubt. Instead you dismiss them as lying. Basically what I am getting at is you are coming across as disengenious. IMHO

  262. Slartibartfast says:

    I’ve learned a lot from this blog.

    Maybe it’d be mutual, if you spent perhaps ten percent of the time telling us what your arguments actually are, that you spend telling us what they aren’t.

    I’m not promising that will forestall any unwarranted jumping-to-conclusions, but it might tend to limit the conclusions that can be jumped to.

    All of the preceding sort of assumes that your intention is to make your point efficiently. Making it by eliminating all not-your-point possibilities is a way to go about it, if you have a lot of time and patience, and someone who’s willing to front you the bandwidth.

  263. Mr. Pink says:

    It is also common sense to reason that someone would be a Dem or left wing individual if they spend 99% of their comments railing against the Right wing smear machine/aka Swifties and McCain.

  264. Barrett Brown says:

    “Yet you say the rest of the Swifties allegations are lies out of hand.”

    Please point to where I said any such thing.

    “Seems to me once they proved that one of their allegations were true, and that Kerry did lie, it would be an easy step to give them the benefit of the doubt.”

    Ummmm… no? The fact that many of them claimed to have served “with” John Kerry when they had never even met the damned guy, but had rather served “with” him in the same sense that I live “with” the guys from Beastie Boys because I live in Brooklyn. I don’t give such people the benefit of the doubt. Again, I’m very careful about these things. I take allegations against people – yes, even politicians whom I despise – very, very seriously, and am not going to agree to any such allegations unless I have seen a convincing case for them. Again, such a convincing case may exist, but I simply have not seen it, largely because I haven’t been looking, not needing any more reasons to dislike John Kerry. Can you, like, see where I’m coming from, man? Like, whoa?

  265. BJTexs says:

    Have you not noticed that Goldstein and I are friendly and that he knows that I’m a [Doobie] libertarian,

    Don’t bogart the freedom, man! :-)

  266. Rob Crawford says:

    Have you not noticed that Goldstein and I are friendly and that he knows that I’m a libertarian, and has actually posted in a couple of these threads to tell you guys to shut the fuck up with your ridiculous and demonstrably incorrect allegations about me? That we’re working together on a project? Do you think Goldstein would be inclined to work with a socialist? Maybe I’m just putting one over on him. But you’re too smart for that, eh? You should e-mail Goldstein right now and warn him that I’m a secret Democratic agitator, you brilliant little e-detective, you.

    Get off your high horse and shove your attitude up your ass. I said you sound like a Democrat. Because what I’m hearing from you on the swiftboats is the same crap that dribbled out of the Democrats’ mouths in 2004. So I said as much.

    I don’t think it’s because you’re a “secret Democratic agitator”; I think it’s because you’re steeped in the milieu, no more aware of how your attitudes are being informed than a fish is of water.

  267. Mr. Pink says:

    Well BB most of the time when people call an entire group of decorated war heroes “liars” they usually do some research on that. You asked me for a freakin link up thread, and now in your last comment want to claim ignorance while at the same time citing how they did not really serve with Kerry.

    Let us keep this simple and examine these three things.

    1. You claim the Swifties are liars while giving no evidence.
    2. You claim to have no knowledge of their allegations while giving evidence against them. Meanwhile you asked me for a link for basic Swift Boat information
    3.You admit that Kerry lied once, (again supposedly you know nothing about the Swifties and their allegations so I find this hilarious that you believed that one without a link), yet you still cling bitterly to the smear that the entire Swift boat group is a bunch of liars.

    So right now what would a rational person think about you and your “arguments” after examining these things you have said on this thread alone? Well I for one think you are a disengenious prick.

  268. Obstreperous Infidel says:

    “Ratfucking is not just for Republicans anymore.”

    It never has been. If you believe otherwise, you’re an idiot.

  269. happyfeet says:

    Barrett likes to keep it clean
    Gonna shine like a sunbeam
    Keep on rapping cause that’s his dream
    Got an A from Jeff G for sticking to themes

  270. Slartibartfast says:

    See, the problem isn’t with what Barrett said, it’s with what you think he said. What he actually said was:

    And some of it will be expressed by those classy folks who wore purple band-aids to the 2004 convention.

    See, he isn’t saying, even, that those are bad people who wore the purple bandaids. He’s just saying that they’ll be feeling some outrage.

    He never even mentioned the Swiftboat Veterans until after some other people questioned him about it.

    See, the devil is in the lack of details. Barrett’s not actually saying very much, so don’t try to make it all more complicated than it is.

  271. Slartibartfast says:

    See, it goes something like this:

    1) One-line zinger from Barrett.
    2) Barrage of I-can’t-believe-you-said-that
    3) Exploration of What Barrett Might Have Meant By That
    4) Serial disavowal of what Barrett didn’t say, by Barrett.
    5) Barrett gets to snicker at you for being a bunch of dumbasses.

    I’m guessing that 5) is actually what Barrett wants, here.

  272. ST says:

    Mr. Pink:

    For a start, the wikipedia entry on “Swift Vets and POWs for Truth” seems to be fairly balanced and tested after uncounted disputes.

    Any reasonable person would conclude that the original SBVT was a ratfuck operation–not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    And actually, you’re being a disingenuous prick for thinking McCain isn’t fair game in response.

  273. Mr. Pink says:

    Seems to me he was alleging 20 things without proof of any kind, while at the same time asking for proof for common knowledge. Arguing with him for an hour seems to bring you back to the starting point for rational conversation, and by that time he runs off. You are right it isn’t complicated, the guy is just a bag of douche.

  274. Mr. Pink says:

    Any reasonable person would conclude that the original SBVT was a ratfuck operation–not that there’s anything wrong with that.
    And actually, you’re being a disingenuous prick for thinking McCain isn’t fair game in response.

    Well when you site wikipedia you are probably not starting out on the right foot. Calling them a ratfuck operation, when they consist of people who have been decorated with some of our nations highest medals, is probably not the way to start out either. I also never said McCain is not “fair game”. Fair game for what though? Seems to me we have heard from pretty much everyone in the prison camp from his time as a POW and they support him. If you think it is a good strategy to drag people out of the naval academy that were there with him 50 years ago and put them on TV in adds by all means go ahead. I am sure that will swing the election to Obama.

  275. Dan Collins says:

    I remember Rat Fuck. I used to watch it when I was a kid. One of the great TV musical themes.

  276. the guy is just a bag of douche.

    Mr. Pink, I would like to offer you an invitation to the “Carin and maggie discuss BB’s doucheness” email group. please drop me a line at gwynnifer at gmail blah blah blah. ;D

  277. keyser soze says:

    One is reminded that the Movie version of “Faith of our Fathers” had a scen where young John McCain, saw a bunch of POWs tanning themselves on an outside of the compound. It was pointed, those were the ones who freely cooperated with the North Vietnamese and their Cuban interrogators; I suspect Edward Butler was one of those.

  278. thor says:

    Comment by Barrett Brown on 9/16 @ 9:51 am #

    “Oh, but Barrette’s not a Democrat. He just sounds remarkably like one.”

    Oh, yeah, I sure do.

    http://www.eclectica.org/v4n4/brown_nazis.html

    Have you not noticed that Goldstein and I are friendly and that he knows that I’m a libertarian, and has actually posted in a couple of these threads to tell you guys to shut the fuck up with your ridiculous and demonstrably incorrect allegations about me? That we’re working together on a project? Do you think Goldstein would be inclined to work with a socialist?

    Fuck yes Goldstein would work with a bonafide card carrying member of the House of Socialism. He’s not a hellbent ideology idiot. He’s into the finer aspects Lit.. One doesn’t have to agree with Virginia Woolf to note that she could lay a rant down proper. Politics is not life.

    Conversations with Dr. Calvino, I’ll bet he’s working on the bones as we speak.

  279. Pablo says:

    Meanwhile, I neither said nor implied that Kerry was in Vietnam while Nixon was in office.

    Right. That was Kerry what did that.

  280. Rusty says:

    Comment by ST on 9/16 @ 11:07 am #

    Mr. Pink:
    “Any reasonable person would conclude that the original SBVT was a ratfuck operation–not that there’s anything wrong with that.”

    Unless it’s the truth. Then it isn’t a, as you say, ‘ratfuck operation’

  281. WillNotBeFooledByObamaNATION says:

    Hi,

    I wanted to draw your attention to this important petition that I recently signed:

    “Impeach Senator Barack Obama”
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/obamaimpeachment?e ….

    I really think this is an important cause, and I’d like to encourage you to add your signature, too. It’s free and takes less than a minute of your time.

    Thanks!……………

    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/obamaimpeachment?e

  282. geoffb (JARAIP) says:

    I believe this thread now holds the all time record on PW for number of trolls of all types.

  283. T.S. Harris says:

    The Swift Boating of McCain needs to end. Now there is a site, swiftboatingMcCain.com that actually corrects the liberal spin. It helps when we have facts to back up or case.

    T.S. Harris

Comments are closed.