September 2, 2008

This should play well with the parents of teenagers…

Partial transcript from Larry King last evening, featuring liberal radio host Ed Schultz and Republican Moderate, former Rep Susan Molinari:

KING: Ed — we haven’t heard from Ed in a minute. Ed?

SCHULTZ: I don’t think Governor Palin could get 40 million viewers on TV. So – she’s got to raise the bar when it comes to interest. Half the country doesn’t even know who she is.

And, Larry, I want to announce tonight that most liberals think that we have absolutely the best vice-presidential pick in Joe Biden. Experience does count. And the fact is, look, it’s unfortunate that there is maybe an unwanted pregnancy of a teenager.

That’s not the issue. The issue is the Republicans have made themselves out to be the party of values and have talked down to Democrats saying that we’re Godless, that we have no values.

They put both value signs up in yards in South Dakota to defeat Tom Daschle. This is their signature issue. And now, when this comes along and it doesn’t really fit too well, oh we can’t talk about it anymore. Come on.

SANCHEZ: That’s not…

SCHULTZ: The facts are this. What kind of mother is she? Is she prepared to be the vice president? Is she going to be totally focused on the issues.

MOLINARI: Wow. You got to be…

SANCHEZ: Whoa, whoa, whoa.

SCHULTZ: There are questions.

MOLINARI: I bet you don’t have a lot of women listeners there, do you? If you do, you’re not going to have them tomorrow after…

SCHULTZ: Actually, today on my show, I took only phone calls…

MOLINARI: Oh my gosh.

SANCHEZ: Wow.

SCHULTZ: from women and they are not happy with them.

MOLINARI: So every — so every person out there who has an unwanted pregnancy in their family is a result of bad mothering? Wow. That’s really bold to say that.

SCHULTZ: Don’t tell me she’s a role model.

MOLINARI: Come on…

SCHULTZ: You know, most professional gardeners have a really nice yard, you know what I mean?

SANCHEZ: You know what, she’s…

SCHULTZ: Most professional gardeners cut their own lawn.

SANCHEZ: No, I’m thinking in all of our families…

SCHULTZ: It seems to me they have trouble in their backyard.

Of course, by this logic, the fact that Hillary’s hubby was getting his gear shaft polished under the desk means Hillary is not qualified to lead. But no matter.

This kind of argument — which, let’s face it, Schultz would never be making were the candidate a man (must be part of the new feminism, incidentally: working women, for all their professional accomplishments, are to be judged by the mistakes of their children — not how they react to those mistakes, which, in the masculine Obama’s case, we know would be to get rid of the “punishment”) — suggests that Sarah Palin is a bad mother, not because of a mistake made by her teenage daughter, but because she wasn’t there to stop it.

Or, to put it another way, what was this Palin woman thinking taking a job while she should have been home, in the kitchen, each morning fastening a chastity belt around her daughter’s honeypot?

I mean, it’s one thing to want to work and act like a man when you haven’t the burden of children — or when you are at least prepared to pony up for a strict Catholic nanny from South America to beat some respect into the child. But, c’mon, honey: playtime is over. Tend your garden, like a good little squaw. Then you might not have yourself a knocked up trailer trash daughter.

Jesus. Can you imagine a “liberal” radio host making this same argument were Palin and her daughter Democrats and black? Of course not. Instead, we’d be treated to a nonstop narrative of sacrifice and the difficulties of growing up black in America — of cultural pressures, the differences between black and white, etc.

And at some level, even Obama seems to understand this — which is why he spent yesterday trying to rein in his more hamfisted Alinskyites.

Unfortunately, he allowed these kinds of folks to believe their own bullshit for so long, that they’ve convinced themselves they know what they’re doing, and that the kind of “lesson” they’re offering will resonate with the American people.

— Which, it that’s the case and they are correct, means this country has been damaged beyond repair.

Speaking of which, where’s Oprah? Is she going to defend Sarah Palin and Bristol? Or does “every woman” only include the authentic ones — y’know, those who vote straight Democrat…?

(thanks to Tom)

Posted by Jeff G. @ 11:31am
395 comments | Trackback

Comments (395)

  1. The positive is that we can now hang Biden’s son’s corruption to the OBiden ticket. At least he’s an adult.

  2. PLEASE tell me that the McCain camp is going to do something about this. I can’t even stand to read anymore. It’s just too outrageous for this little stay at home mom. Is it possible to have a stroke just reading blogs??

  3. There’s nothing McCain can do about it without sounding heavy-handed for whiny.

    It’s OK for Obama’s minions to “flood the zone” to try to chase Kurtz out of the public arena, but any attempt by McCain to ask people to watch their mouths will be turned into “censorship”, “oppression”, and “threats”.

  4. I’m pretty disgusted the Vagina Warriorsâ„¢ (Shakes excepted) are complicit in the rape of this young girls life.

  5. Ignore it. Georgie Schultz always was a tendentious idiot.

  6. Actually, mojo, I think it’s Ed Schultz. Who, if I can trust my Google, is WAY more of an idiot.

    My two cents: I can’t wait to see the poll numbers in the next few days. Especially if there’s some sort of demographic dimension.

    Or, as others more intelligent than me have said (I’m paraphrasing): “How many voters were pregnant on their wedding day?” and “How many Democrats does it take to lose a won election? I think we’re about to find out.”

    Final thought: if Sarah is as tough as she seems, I’m guessing Bristol is, too…

  7. Well, at least Sanchez got in some good points during that exchange.

  8. I have nothing to add to this conversation other than expletives.

  9. Does this mean Obama’s grandmother is disqualified to be Vice President because her grandson snorted coke?

  10. PLEASE tell me that the McCain camp is going to do something about this. I can’t even stand to read anymore. It’s just too outrageous for this little stay at home mom. Is it possible to have a stroke just reading blogs??

    The McCain camp is doing what it ought, being quiet. Obama’s minions think that evangelical Christians will dump the good governor; the Obamanaics believe American women will like being told that if your child got pregnant as a teenager, you are a stupid ass of a mother and cannot do anything important, as a result, for America. And any and all who ever raised a teeenage will know that it is impossible to control one at all times, even with the “finest” of upbringings, and this will piss off a lot of people…A LOT OF PEOPLE. Just think: the majority of single women giving birth in the U.S. are probably black, and libs are calling each and every mother of a pregnant teenager a stupid boob.

    For Barack Obama, a baby is a punishment; Palin calls a new life a blessing. Who would you want int he White House?

    Fear not. Don’t have a stroke.

    Karl Rove, you magnificent bastard!

  11. Biden just make the same case at a Townhall event in Florida: Children are off limits.

    How much of the last 60 days of the campaign is the O! camp going to have to spend telling its supporters to STFU?

    I love watching identity politics eat itself.

  12. They also mistake WHO is having a baby. Yes, the girl is age 17 and she may or may not be able to completely care for that baby. I don’t know. Neither do the mouth breathing lefties hyperventilating over the “alleged” hypocricy. But the fact remains that Bristol’s baby will be cared for. She has a large loving family that will care for that baby, emotionally, physically and the only way that is at all relevant to the rest of the fucking country not named the Palins, financially. I don’t have to help pick up the tab to help raise that baby. It isn’t any of my fucking business.

  13. To be fair, hibiscus are far more trampy than Schultz is letting on. Most gardeners recognize this.

  14. Ed Schultz is the “voice of reason” for left of center radio talkers, right?

  15. Hello. parallel universe people. Long time no see.
    Your flailing about is comical. Don’t you think your anger might be more productive directed at Sen McCain for putting you in this awkward and embarrassing position? Jeez, how much of his crap are you willing to eat?

  16. Story making the rounds today:

    A nervous young McCain staffer took it upon himself to explain to Palin the facts of life in a national campaign, the intense scrutiny she’d be under from the media, the viciousness of the assault that she’d be facing, etc.:

    Palin: “Thanks for the warning. By the way, do you know what they say the difference is between a hockey mom and a Pit Bull?”

    McCain aide: “No, Governor.”

    Palin: “A hockey mom wears lipstick.”

    BITCH!

  17. Who is Sanchez interrupting Big Ed’s rant now and then?

  18. I bet you don’t have a lot of women listeners there, do you? If you do, you’re not going to have them tomorrow after…

    Ma’am, when dealing with the enemy, if they demonstrate the intent to destroy themselves, get out of their way.

    I suggest…. POPCORN!

  19. Hello, david —

    Newsflash: “we” aren’t in the awkward position, nor are “we embarrassed. In fact, it isn’t “our” candidate sending out action alerts asking his supporters to stuff a sock in it.

    Smirk all you’d like. Many of those who weren’t going to pull the lever for McCain now are. Sucks for “you guys,” I guess.

  20. Who would have thought that another Democratic presidential campaign could be characterized as totally tone deaf to the sensitivities of normal Americans?

  21. No, david. I think McCain made a brilliant pick and I’m really sort of enjoying watching the left shoot itself in the head. Both your Pres and VP candidates are telling you to, for the love of God, please shut the fuck up, but your lot just can’t help itself.

    I’m not flailing at all. Wokking the scalpel a bit, true. But even that is for my own entertainment, something I have an abundance of at the moment. But please, tell me more.

  22. Oh, and for the first time ever, I just made a donation to a Presidential campaign because it made me smile.

  23. Those sound like comforting thoughts, Jeff. Do they have theme music?

  24. Geraldine Ferraro may vote Republican.

    LYDEN: May we ask who you’re supporting for president?

    Rep. FERRARO: Sure you can ask but I have, you know, I’m like one of you people. I’m sitting here working on my decision. Yeah, I’m a Democrat and I am a person who feels very, very strongly about issues that face this country. So, when I go into the booth I will make my decision.

    Lieberman, Ferraro, Coales — it’s getting like that damned Anbar Awakening!

  25. What does “wokking the scalpel” mean?

  26. It’s a typo, david. I’m sure you can work it out, bright boy that you are.

  27. I’m waiting for just one of the billions and billions of Darwin-to-the-bone geniuses that I’ve been assured all my life all non-Republicans are to note that Palin’s daughter is at the ideal age to have a healthy baby without complication to her or it, and praise her for not letting rube-morality or any of several oppressive and/or eugenics-serving false consciousnesses or manipulated-from-above social identities or, fuck it, The Republican War On Science! deter her from the wisest possible exercise of her reproductive rights. Medically speaking. Because SCIENCE.

    I’ll be at the bar.

    (No hate is strong enough to make me vote.)

  28. wokking the scalpel

    My understanding is this means accidentally severing your own testicles while trying to stab a 17 year old girl.

  29. Spot on. This women is a perfect VP candidate, because she inspires such venom from the “tolerant” ones. I’m really looking forward to her speech tomorrow night. The table is set perfectly for her.

  30. Nobody is talking about Baracky anymore.

  31. Except maybe NPR and they have a very limited palette is why.

  32. David. When you reach the bottom. Stop digging! Unlike the other three on the opposing tickets, Palin looks like a normal human being. What the heck’s she doing in politics and what’s not to like?

  33. Re #19: in fact, I’m wondering if today is where the long slide into Dukakis territory will begin, largely as a result of Obama’s demonstrated lack of control over his minions. But I’m trying hard not to get too cocky over the dumbness of the Donks.

  34. Venom? No, derision… and sadness.

  35. Don’t you think your anger might be more productive directed at Sen McCain for putting you in this awkward and embarrassing position?

    What “awkward and embarassing position”? It ain’t the right attacking a girl. It ain’t the right trying to pry into the most private aspects of a family.

    I’m more impressed with Palin than I’ve ever been with McCain. That her teenage daughter has a mind of her own is no slam on her — and that Bristol has chosen the most responsible, most difficult path is a credit to her.

  36. Somone needs to give Schultz a Dirty Sanchez followed by a Cleveland Steamer.

  37. “Wokking the scalpel” is a term of art in surgery, David. It describes something that should never be done.

    Regards,
    Ric

  38. Obama’s classy campaign supporters are sending around photoshopped Palin pics and telling people they are real.

    They are in full fledged panic mode.

    http://www.mererhetoric.com/archives/11274826.html

  39. Venom? No, derision… and sadness.

    Weird. That’s exactly how I feel about your side of the aisle.

  40. Was it supposed to be “working”? I assumed it was some sort of internet slang.

  41. david is yet another in a long line of mendoucheous asshats the last few days. It is always fun when the Left decides to eat themselves.

  42. Obama’s classy campaign supporters are sending around photoshopped Palin pics and telling people they are real.

    Did you see the laughably bad video that was passed around as the First Dude’s reaction to her winning the mayoral election?

  43. There you go David. Not as thick as a brick, after all. Keep working at it and all shall be revealed. When in doubt, from now on, just remember that (in the immortal words of the Firesign Theater) EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG!

  44. Pingback: Hot Air » Blog Archive » Video: “How can a woman run a state and bring up … five children at the same time?”

  45. and that Bristol has chosen the most responsible, most difficult path is a credit to her.

    I love this line: “We don’t believe women should have the right to choose, not even when they’re 1) raped or 2) raped by a relative, but Bristol’s decision to carry the baby to term is a choice worthy of the highest accolades.” Because the alternative is to believe she considered terminating the pregnancy, a sort of choice-for-me-but-not-for-thee situation, and if you believe that, you’re less pro-life than a pro-life hypocrite.

    Put differently: you don’t applaud people for “deciding” between Option 1 and Option 1 unless you secretly believe they’re hypocrites, and if you do, well, why are you applauding them?

  46. Look, I understand you all feel you have no choice but to buy in for the moment. She may actually still be on the ticket next week. I’m just trying to empathize with your predicament. It must be very troubling to have your leader dump one so squarely on your heads. Oy.

  47. David. We’re not afraid of the dark. No matter how scary you keep saying it is. Get it?

  48. David,

    Enough about our Vice Presidential candidate. Let’s talk about your Presidential candidate.

    O! is not qualified to be president and was never properly vetted by the MSM or the democratic party primary voters. Indeed, O! is less qualified to be President than Palin, he has less accomplishments in life and less experience and his personal history has never been properly explored or investigated. Here is why:

    * He was an affirmative action admission at Harvard law (he has not released his college grades, LSAT score, or law school grades yet – which indicates that he was not a stellar student that had the grades to get into Harvard absent affirmative action);

    * He was an affirmative action pick onto the law review (again, he did not grade-on or write-on to law review so he could only get on to law review through some kind of affirmative action);

    * He has not accomplished anything as an elected official (name one important piece of legislation he has authored);

    * He’s written no published articles to demonstrate academic ability;

    * He admits in his books that he purposefully sought out Marxist mentors and teachers in college, indeed one of his major mentors in life was an avid Marxist.

    * he’s done nothing courageous in his life, not even taking a courageous stance on any legislation (indeed, he voted “present” on almost all controversial bills in the IL state senate);

    * he’s never sacrificed anything for any cause;

    * he’s never accomplished anything outside of elected office.

    * the man is as empty a suit as exists, with no real proof of intellectual bona fides nor even a consistent set of policy ideas (he switches his stances 180 degrees within weeks of taking a stance based on polls).

    * He went to a church for 20 years where hatred of white people was routinely preached and hatred of America was routinely preached.

    * he worked closely with and was friends with an admitted and unrepentant domestic terrorist – Bill Ayers (and others);

    * he voted against criminalizing the killing of babies that were born alive when he was in the Illinois State Senate;

    * He has a shady financial relationship with convicted felon Tony Rezko.

    What exactly is it about this admitted cocaine dealer that the left finds so great?

  49. Scott, drop what you’re doing and go down to the physics department. Ask one of the grad students to explain “entropy” and “locality” to you.

    We’ll wait.

    Regards,
    Ric

  50. Rape is always the wrong choice I think. But nobody got raped that I know about. This is sort of getting unfocused.

  51. Chin up, ducktrapper.

  52. “Speaking of which, where’s Oprah? Is she going to defend Sarah Palin and Bristol? Or does “every woman” only include the authentic ones — y’know, those who vote straight Democrat…?

    You know, if you stop and think about it for a moment, just what has been Oprah’s payback for supporting Obama? I can’t find anything more recent than this from the LA Times blogs:

    “Panagopoulos draws the conclusion that in these days of pervasive media, in reality, celebrity endorsements run the real risk of costing the celebrity more than they benefit the endorsee. So celebs may want to think twice before hitting the stump.

    Oprah’s existence doesn’t involve women. It is women. Women leaving the TV on when her show is on. Women in her book club. Women subscribing to her magazine…

    Ooooh. Payback for overseeing the plantation is a… a… well, dammit, a BITCH, ain’t it, ma’am.

    (I denounce myself on two counts: racism AND sexism. But I don’t make the hiring decisions for the Babysitting Division of the Left. Those people are who they are.)

    Wow. Obama isn’t the only one standing off the stage doing the “cut Cut CUT!!!” hand sign thing, is he?

  53. Sure Scott, but by your very own playbook ours is just a justified reaction to the horrors of abortion, whereas your pointing it out just makes you an asshole.

  54. Sarah Palin is very popular just not with Democrats cause her daughter is going to be a mom at a younger age than they think she should. They’ve been really vocal about it. Like they want another one of them “national discussion” thingers. But no one really believes they really actually care so it’s just noise. Loud screechy misogynistic noise.

  55. I love this line: “We don’t believe women should have the right to choose, not even when they’re 1) raped or 2) raped by a relative, but Bristol’s decision to carry the baby to term is a choice worthy of the highest accolades.” Because the alternative is to believe she considered terminating the pregnancy, a sort of choice-for-me-but-not-for-thee situation, and if you believe that, you’re less pro-life than a pro-life hypocrite.

    Hey, SEK, do you know what my position on abortion is?

  56. Scott, drop what you’re doing and go down to the physics department. Ask one of the grad students to explain “entropy” and “locality” to you.

    I’m not sure whether this means you are applauding her for selecting the only available option or not, Ric.

    Rape is always the wrong choice I think. But nobody got raped that I know about. This is sort of getting unfocused.

    But if somebody had, happy, the outcome would have, by law, been the same.

  57. Sarah Palin has a small Israeli flag hanging in her office in Juno, whereas Obama thinks having Che flags in one of his campaign offices is a better choice. I think that’s because Sarah Palin is a decent human being and Obama surrounds himself with idiots.

  58. #

    Comment by david on 9/2 @ 12:05 pm #

    Hello. parallel universe people. Long time no see.
    Your flailing about is comical. Don’t you think your anger might be more productive directed at Sen McCain for putting you in this awkward and embarrassing position? Jeez, how much of his crap are you willing to eat?

    The spaghetti monster truck has backed up to the paper plate clutching swarm. They’re hungry for their turn at the magic spaghetti and meme meatballs.

    This is more myth-driven than it’s ever been. Former Moosetown mayor qualified for POTUS by rote of idealogy alone!

    You’re wetting yourselves, dear elves.

  59. Sure Scott, but by your very own playbook ours is just a justified reaction to the horrors of abortion, whereas your pointing it out just makes you an asshole.

    Non sequitur!

    Hey, SEK, do you know what my position on abortion is?

    I don’t, Rob, but I know Palin’s, as well as the opinions of others who’ve come out and praised Bristol’s decision to keep the baby.

  60. Last time SEK dropped by, we got the equivalent arguement of all of the vile Leftist attacked on the Palin’s are the fault of McCain for selecting her. He could have avoided this, but his actions put them in the line of fire.

  61. Where did you find this quote Scott? Who wrote it?

  62. I don’t, Rob, but I know Palin’s, as well as the opinions of others who’ve come out and praised Bristol’s decision to keep the baby.

    You riffed off of a comment from me. Sorry if I read your comment as a response to what I said. Your quoting me threw me off.

    And you’re conveniently ignoring the third choice Bristol could have taken. Funny… almost as if that choice would have destroyed your whole “argument”.

  63. Non sequitur!

    Really more of a reminder that your moral compass could use the occasional correction. Like in this instance presuming a position on someone that you made up out of the little caricatures of evil pro-lifers you have in your head.

  64. “Lukewarm for McCain, Hot for Palin”

    ~ Bumper Sticker


  65. Comment by SEK on 9/2 @ 12:43 pm #

    I don’t, Rob, but I know Palin’s, as well as the opinions of others who’ve come out and praised Bristol’s decision to keep the baby.

    Bristol’s decision? 10,000 moose just farted.

  66. Last time SEK dropped by, we got the equivalent arguement of all of the vile Leftist attacked on the Palin’s are the fault of McCain for selecting her. He could have avoided this, but his actions put them in the line of fire.

    I was quite surprised he didn’t drop by to do that the other day. Who was it took that standard up for him?

  67. It must be very troubling to have your leader dump one so squarely on your heads.

    But we don’t consider this a “dump”! She a smart woman, she’ll weather this well and peal a lot of votes off Obama, whose Teflon is on the wrong side of his political clothing.

    The left just doesn’t get it (and hasn’t since McGovern), and that is the amazing thing about it. The left’s political perceptions repeatedly trump the concrete realities surrounding it:
    unemployment in Europe is at 10%-11%. Our is 5.4%

    The economy isn’t miserable: it grew 3.3% last quarter, which is a flat 12% annualized growth rate;

    Gallup reprorts that Americans (I think it was about 20%)are uneasy about the future (“where the country is headed”) but that 70% are confident financially and are fiscally optimistic.

    Oil is down $7/barrel today!

    And yet libs wander around in misery, trying to drag everyone else into their hell of high taxes, reduced liberty, and less of everything. Calling those who support choice of life over mere political convenience “hypocrites!” will only cause the majority of Americans to shake their heads, to sadly grin, and to say “There you go again,” just before they decide things are pretty damn good after all, and vote Republican.

  68. Oh. That’s probably true about outcomes but I’ll have to think about that. But it still would have been someone else not me getting raped and some days that does or does not move the dial. I have end of the month reports to do, you see, and lunch sounds like it’s going to be a tuna sub from the hepatitis Subway cause NG wants me to walk down there with her. Same as rape I think.

  69. #48 GB

    That there’s a fine compendium of Obama’s down side, but here’s his upside:

    1) He gives a good speech
    2) Voting for him will assuage our white liberal guilt for getting all the votes from the African-American community and then doing nothing for them
    3) He is Ivy-League educated like all the REAL smart people are (You know, the ones who are your betters.)

  70. But if somebody had, happy, the outcome would have, by law, been the same.

    What law is that?

  71. I would really like for the people who keep telling me Palin’s opinions on abortion and sex education to provide just one fucking link to where they are getting their information. It has been five days now and I haven’t seen source one.

  72. It must be very troubling to have your leader dump one so squarely on your heads.

    What is troubling is to see people not follow their hearts because they are afraid of the media and the opposition’s complete lack of ethics or common decency.

    It would almost be like appeasing terrorists.

  73. Those sound like comforting thoughts, Jeff. Do they have theme music?

    I’m fond of “Gravity’s Gone.” But that gets a little too blue in places for the RIGHTWING CHRISTIANISTS. So maybe something from The Carpenters.

    Oh, and Scott? Two things: putting up the child for adoption is another option. I know. I myself was adopted.

    Also, Bristol Palin is a different being from Sarah Palin, and — being a teenager and her own person, could might have held different views from mom and dad. Not entirely unprecedented, you know — even with all the “inscribing” and “dialogics of Alaska” shaping and controlling this poor gutter whore from Jack London’s romantic socialist nightmares.

  74. Pingback: She’s just a small town mayor, just a hockey mom, just a beauty pageant queen…The Case Against the Case Against Palin | Right Voices

  75. oh. but nice to see you Mr. SEK. You should visit more.

  76. Pingback: HoosierAccess » Blog Archive » The “new feminism” takes a dim view of Republican women straying too far from the nursery

  77. B Moe

    Palin is the governor of Alaska, so one would think that she would require an abstinence only sex ed curriculum in Alaska schools. Guess not.

  78. Hey Shultz !

    “There wouldn’t be a Democrat Party if it weren’t for teen pregnancy.”

    Deal with it !

  79. It must be very troubling to have your leader dump one so squarely on your heads.

    Funny, I thought McCain was throwing the conservatives a bone with this pick.

    And now I find out he was dumping on me. Boy am I pissed!

  80. At least I have one Dave, ol’ boy!

  81. I’m not sure whether this means you are applauding her for selecting the only available option or not, Ric.

    Are you familiar with the current law of the land, Scott? How about Alaskan abortion law in particular? Did you know that one’s parents political positions and morals are not the same thing as state law?

    Did Bristol Palin have more than one option?

  82. Palin is the governor of Alaska, so one would think that she would require an abstinence only sex ed curriculum in Alaska schools.

    But the governor of Alaska doesn’t have dictatorial powers like the Vice President does.

  83. I like when SEK gets stupid. It’s kind of rare, but it happens. I didn’t know that Bristol was either 1)raped or 2) raped by a relative. That shit’s dope, yo. Anyhow, kill em all, let the cray super computer sort em out.

  84. B Moe, one would think that if one thinks an executive is all powerful. And if one who thinks that also thinks Barack Obama ought to be the chief executive, well, you can see that they’re going to be in for some big disappointments.

  85. You riffed off of a comment from me. Sorry if I read your comment as a response to what I said. Your quoting me threw me off.

    Point taken.

    And you’re conveniently ignoring the third choice Bristol could have taken.

    So she’s being applauded for marrying the guy and keeping the baby as opposed to putting it up for adoption?

    Really more of a reminder that your moral compass could use the occasional correction.

    My moral compass points dandily, E.G. Did then, does now.

    Like in this instance presuming a position on someone that you made up out of the little caricatures of evil pro-lifers you have in your head.

    The pro-lifer in question was Palin, whose position on abortion was, circa her 2006 gubernatorial campaign, unequivocal.

    Also, Bristol Palin is a different being from Sarah Palin, and — being a teenager and her own person, could might have held different views from mom and dad.

    Granted, what with her being pregnant in the first place. But given Palin’s position on “the atrocity of abortion,” I’d wager a decision to terminate the pregnancy wouldn’t have been brooked.

    I would really like for the people who keep telling me Palin’s opinions on abortion and sex education to provide just one fucking link to where they are getting their information.

    Check the above link, or better yet, this one.

  86. Pingback: Palin’s libertarianism: how to be socially conservative and still govern from libertarian principles

  87. RE: #67

    Gross domestic product is a misunderstood statistic. Quarterly values (dollar value of all final goods and services) are annualized and percent changes from quarter to quarter are also annualized rates. The 3.3% increase in the second quarter was still respectable but it means that during that three month period, the economy was growing at a 3.3% annualized rate, not a 13.2% rate.

  88. Props to Rob Crawford. If Gov. Palin is at fault for her daughter’s conduct, then is not Biden responsible for this problim caused by his son and his brother:

    “Biden’s Son, Brother Named in Two Suits” By Kimberly Kindy and Joe Stephens, Washington Post Staff Writers on Sunday, August 24, 2008 at Page A09:

    A son and a brother of Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.) are accused in two lawsuits of defrauding a former business partner and an investor of millions of dollars in a hedge fund deal that went sour, court records show.

  89. Granted, what with her being pregnant in the first place. But given Palin’s position on “the atrocity of abortion,” I’d wager a decision to terminate the pregnancy wouldn’t have been brooked.So you’re saying that would have thrown her out of the house? Had her exorcised?

    And did she need to tell Mom and Dad at all?

    The “applause” you here is in response to those who say Sarah Palin is a bad mommy for allowing her daughter to get pregnant getting hit upside the head with Bristol Palin’s own choice, one she didn’t have to make.

    Again, she is not her parents — and frankly, your suggestion that she was incapable of making up her own mind is yet an additional insult to women.

    Bravo!

  90. So she’s being applauded for marrying the guy and keeping the baby as opposed to putting it up for adoption?

    I’m applauding her for that, and for not having an abortion.

    Which is still a legal option for her.

  91. Comment by Gabriel Sutherland on 9/2 @ 12:05 pm #

    Ed Schultz is the “voice of reason” for left of center radio talkers, right?

    I’m from Fargo, where “Fat Eddie” Schultz got his start, and I’ve watched his career for years now. Putting it in its simplest terms, Moron + Loudmouth = Ed Schultz.

    Ask me about his hunting dog some time.

  92. Did Bristol Palin have more than one option?

    That’s sort of my point, Pablo. She only has the option to terminate the pregnancy because — do I really need to finish this? It’s not like groups praising her are doing so because she bravely decided not to give the child up for adoption:

    James Dobson, an influential Christian evangelical conservative, said his Focus on the Family group had always counseled young mothers to see their pregnancies through, “even though there will be of course challenges along the way.”

    “That is what the Palins are doing, and they should be commended once again for not just talking about their pro-life and pro-family values, but living them out even in the midst of trying circumstances,” he said in a statement.

    Charmaine Yoest, head of Americans United for Life, said, “We join them in welcoming this new life.”

  93. Again, she is not her parents — and frankly, your suggestion that she was incapable of making up her own mind is yet an additional insult to women.

    I get the feeling, sadly, that the folks preaching “pro-choice” really only consider one particular choice to be valid.

  94. Pingback: More On The Left’s/Media’s Sexism: Compare Palin To Obama–Continuously Updating, Scroll Down « Blog Entry « Dr. Melissa Clouthier

  95. “So she’s being applauded for marrying the guy and keeping the baby as opposed to putting it up for adoption?”

    Are we supposed to applaud if her she decides to have an abortion?

  96. She only has the option to terminate the pregnancy because — do I really need to finish this? It’s not like groups praising her are doing so because she bravely decided not to give the child up for adoption:

    WTF?

    Does this make sense to anyone? I’m including you in that question, SEK, because I’m leaving open the possibility you either phrased it clumsily or just lost your train of thought.

  97. Out of context “quotes” from left wing blogs. Thanks, Scott.

  98. Again, she is not her parents — and frankly, your suggestion that she was incapable of making up her own mind is yet an additional insult to women.

    Yes, my statement that the 17-year-old daughter of a defiantly pro-life governor/VP-candidate might not consider abortion, though legal, an option suggests something about all women, as opposed to just 17-year-old-daughters-of-defiantly-pro-life-governor/VP-candidates.

    I’m applauding her for that, and for not having an abortion.

    I think you’re in the majority there, but it’s a strange position to be in if you’re pro-life: you praise someone for doing what is to be done, akin to the expectations of the kid who thinks he deserves an “A” because he turned his essay in.

  99. Hello. parallel universe people. Long time no see.
    Your flailing about is comical. Don’t you think your anger might be more productive directed at Sen McCain for putting you in this awkward and embarrassing position?

    I’d have left it at “long time no see” mister david, and not have gone ahead and proved it like you did so, er, elegantly.

    But thanks.

  100. defiantly pro-life

    You keep saying that. Who exactly is she defying?

  101. Next year she’ll be 18 is how I figure it.

  102. I think you’re in the majority there, but it’s a strange position to be in if you’re pro-life: you praise someone for doing what is to be done, akin to the expectations of the kid who thinks he deserves an “A” because he turned his essay in.

    Again, do you know what my position is on the subject of abortion?

    And it’s not all that unusual to applaud people for going ahead with the difficult choice, even if they believe it’s the moral choice.

  103. Out of context “quotes” from left wing blogs. Thanks, Scott.

    If that’s what you call direct answers to a questionnaire filled out during her gubernatorial campaign and administered by a conservative group — that is, if you don’t believe her own carefully worded answers, I’m not sure what will convince you.

    Does this make sense to anyone?

    Guess I do need to continue:

    The groups praising Bristol Palin’s decision are praising her decision not to terminate the pregnancy. Dobson and the now-excited base are excited because McCain begrudgingly selected a pro-life running mate over Lieberman. Given that they’re pro-life, and that this was a sticking-point in the selection of the VP, their decision to praise her for not doing what her mother, if she had her druthers, would criminalize is faint praise. If she chose to terminate the pregnancy, what would the reaction of the groups supporting her mother be?

  104. you praise someone for doing what is to be done

    Eh? Recognition of someone for choosing what one believes to be the morally correct path is now off-limits?

    What does “is to be done” mean?

    I’m really not getting your point, here, Scott. And my sense is, not many others are, either. So maybe re-explaining it, possibly with shorter words, might be in order.

  105. Here’s an interesting anecdote. My wife’s first reaction when Palin was named was, paraphrased “what the heck is this woman thinking in running for VP with 5 kids, one of them challenged?” We argued about that for a while and dropped it. Then the attacks started and now my wife would kill for Sarah Palin.Don’t mess with mothers and most of the Evangelicals I know will be back Palin big time against these kinds of attacks.

    Nice job to David, SEK and their friends. OK, not you guys personally but those of your idealogical stripes have managed to energize Evangelical women to support McCain because of his vice president, empower moderate mothers to support a fellow mother and smear the entire Democratic Party by association with merciless attacks. Bravo!

    BTW: My wife is a pro-choice moderate career woman who’s not that enamored of McCain but can’t stand Obama even a little bit. She probably would have sat out the election but now is fired up to vote for McCain.

  106. Yes, my statement that the 17-year-old daughter of a defiantly pro-life governor/VP-candidate might not consider abortion, though legal, an option suggests something about all women, as opposed to just 17-year-old-daughters-of-defiantly-pro-life-governor/VP-candidates.

    Oh. So then it’s just 17-year-old daughters of Alaskan pro-life governors who lack free will. Presumably because there’s something intrinsic to one particular point of view on abortion that prevents opposition, and can never be pushed back against by defiant teenagers.

    Much better. Carry on,

  107. If that’s what you call direct answers to a questionnaire filled out during her gubernatorial campaign and administered by a conservative group

    That isn’t what you linked to. Unless you consider the Huffington Post a conservative group.

  108. You keep saying that. Who exactly is she defying?

    The less virulent pro-life organizations that believe rape and incest are a valid reasons to terminate a pregnancy.

    Again, do you know what my position is on the subject of abortion?

    I took note of that and added the “if” for that very reason. If you’re pro-life, applauding someone for not doing what you think should be outlawed is the faintest sort of praise.

  109. SEK, I hope you don’t mind my adding my name to the list of commenters here that cannot penetrate your reasoning.

    I like when SEK gets stupid.

    As painful as it can be.

  110. If a teenager decides to abort, well, she obviously made this decision herself and should be commended for making a wise choice, but if she decides to keep the baby, she is obviously incapable of making a decision of her own with respect to abortion, or her parents are forcing her to keep the baby.

    Is that about it?

  111. I like Sarah cause she understands that we can drill our own energies. She’s a bright lady and Democrats are stupid and want to keep giving monies to Hugo Chavez for oil we can make here, and create good jobs while doing it. I am the base that’s fired up. Me. And I’m apathetic about abortions.

  112. If she chose to terminate the pregnancy, what would the reaction of the groups supporting her mother be?

    Almost certainly not what you expect.

  113. the faintest sort of praise

    Ah. Damning for faint praise. Whatever. That’s quite a lot of syllables you’ve expended critiquing the praising techniques of others, there, Scott.

  114. People are arguing like it is known for sure that the pregnancy was an oops. Is it not possible that the girl chose to get pregnant? What if she did precisely that? Probably not the wisest choice is a lot what would be said, but hey, seventeen is not the wisest time of life anyhow.

    Doesn’t the feminist left have enough respect for a seventeen year old woman to allow her to make her own choices? It’s her womb, seems to me the lefties need to back off ans stop using her body as a weapon in the culture wars.

  115. I wonder if Scott worries about all those little hippie daughters of defiantly pro choice feminists who might not consider the option of having the baby because of their defiantly pro choice feminist parents?

  116. If you’re pro-life, applauding someone for not doing what you think should be outlawed is the faintest sort of praise.

    Not really, because they’re (by and large) capable of distinguishing between the world as they wish it were and the world as it really is. In the real world, abortion’s a legal option — and Bristol still chose the more difficult, more responsible option.

    I know you’re just trying to score rhetorical points, but if you’d attempt to understand that, you’d probably have a better understanding of the people you disagree with.

  117. Well, Scott, whatever the law might be in the future as a result of Sarah Palin’s actions, it doesn’t affect the law now or in the past (that’s the “entropy” part) nor will it affect the difference between Alaska and the rest of the world (the “locality” part).

    Whatever Ms. Palin might prefer, the law in Alaska NOW is the same as it is in the rest of the country: abortion on demand, send the bill to the Feds. Bristol Palin had that choice, just like every other teenager. She chose differently — but she DID have the choice, whatever her mother may prefer (which I don’t address, since we’re only concerned with what the insulting stereotype of Sarah Palin inside your head might prefer).

    Regards,
    Ric

  118. Recognition of someone for choosing what one believes to be the morally correct path is now off-limits?

    Would you praise someone for not murdering the person who rear-ended them? Probably not, despite it being the morally correct decision.

    What does “is to be done” mean?

    If Palin had her druthers, her daughter would have no choice but to carry the child to term. “Pride” doesn’t seem the right word to attribute to a feeling more aptly described “thank you for not doing something morally reprehensible and contrary to my most sacred beliefs.”

    So maybe re-explaining it, possibly with shorter words, might be in order.

    I tried that, SB, but it didn’t take. (Granted, I didn’t factor in adoption, but neither have any of the groups who’ve praised the decision.)

    So then it’s just 17-year-old daughters of Alaskan pro-life governors who lack free will.

    Show me where I said she lacked free will. I pretty clearly stated that the ramifications of her terminating a pregnancy given her parent’s position on the matter would be dire. That’s not the same thing — not even remotely, nor even suggestively — as saying she has no free will.

    B Moe, it’s the second link, which contains the material cited in the first. (You can also find it here, or could yesterday, although there seems to be an issue now.)

  119. The groups praising Bristol Palin’s decision are praising her decision not to terminate the pregnancy. Dobson and the now-excited base are excited because McCain begrudgingly selected a pro-life running mate over Lieberman.

    SEK, You might want to look at Dobson’s entire statement before you pass it off as a political expediency:

    “In the 32-year history of Focus on the Family, we have offered prayer, counseling and resource assistance to tens of thousands of parents and children in the same situation the Palins are now facing. We have always encouraged the parents to love and support their children and always advised the girls to see their pregnancies through, even though there will of course be challenges along the way. That is what the Palins are doing, and they should be commended once again for not just talking about their pro-life and pro-family values, but living them out even in the midst of trying circumstances.

    “Being a Christian does not mean you’re perfect. Nor does it mean your children are perfect. But it does mean there is forgiveness and restoration when we confess our imperfections to the Lord. I’ve been the beneficiary of that forgiveness and restoration in my own life countless times, as I’m sure the Palins have.”

    Mercy and forgiveness, two practices quite lacking from those you keep defending. Also, your characterization of “defiantly” pro-life people is a cartoon. I happen to be one so I might know a thing or two.

  120. Maybe I should be more clear.

    Until it is know with some certainty that this pregnancy was unplanned, and therefore ‘abortion’ was a viable question, then using this incident as ammunition in the abortion war is inappropriate and distasteful.

  121. Would you praise someone for not murdering the person who rear-ended them? Probably not, despite it being the morally correct decision.

    If the law said they could, and there was a major political party advocating the government not merely allow them, but should subsidize their weapons, yes.

    Show me where I said she lacked free will. I pretty clearly stated that the ramifications of her terminating a pregnancy given her parent’s position on the matter would be dire.

    Really? You know how they would have reacted? How?

  122. - The Left should really try hard to stifle their panic and think this through.

    – By dumping all this gushing screeching on Bristol, aimed at marginalizing her mothers abilities to lead, they’re sending an unmistakable message that it was always, from day one, never really about choice. The only real choice they will accept is abortion. So theres really no choice involved.

    – They hate and fear her because she made the wrong “outcome”, not because she made the wrong choice.

    – Apparently they see Roe vs. Wade slipping through their fingers, and to them, if Bristol has her baby, its normal and healthy, she marries, and her and her husband raise the child in a normal happy family, they’ve made the wrong outcome, not the wrong choice, and it sends the wrong message that you can simply go ahead and multiply and be fruitful.

    – Infanticide!….its whats for Progressive/Lefturd dinner!!!

  123. Would you praise someone for not murdering the person who rear-ended them?

    I don’t think I follow you. Bristol Palin was rear-ended by a…what? But if it were legal to kill someone who rear-ended you, and if it were really a great deal more convenient to do so than to deal with the police and the insurance companies and all, well, then…maybe.

    If Palin had her druthers, her daughter would have no choice but to carry the child to term. “Pride” doesn’t seem the right word to attribute to a feeling more aptly described “thank you for not doing something morally reprehensible and contrary to my most sacred beliefs.”

    This is supposed to clarify what you meant by “to be done”? It doesn’t.

    Also, you seem to imply that Bristol Palin could not have obtained an abortion without parental consent or knowledge. My ignorance of Alaskan state law in the matter is such that I have no idea whether you’re right about that, so if that was indeed your intention to say something like that, please tell me why you think that’s the case.

    I agree with you that Bristol’s course of action probably won’t merit anything like a Nobel prize, but it’s nonetheless non-evil.

    Unless her parents are keeping her prisoner in the basement and using her uterus to make more Palins, that is.

  124. “Let’s see, the dynamite, blasting caps, a trunk-light switch and a dozen D cells. That comes to… $28.45. Can I ask what you’re going to do with all that?

    You certainly may. Bye.”
    — Charlie Varrick

  125. If that’s what you call direct answers to a questionnaire filled out during her gubernatorial campaign and administered by a conservative group — that is, if you don’t believe her own carefully worded answers, I’m not sure what will convince you.

    Why does this standard not apply to Baracky?

  126. It seems that the Dems are more upset about it than the Reps. But I thought that the Dmes didn’t think that there was anything wrong with teenage pregnancy.

    Unless, of course, it’s the daughter of a Conservative Christian running for an office as a Republican. THEN, they suddenly give a rodents rear. Amazing.

  127. I pretty clearly stated that the ramifications of her terminating a pregnancy given her parent’s position on the matter would be dire.

    And there is that cartoon I spoke of. I’m guessing you don’t spend a whole lot of time with conservative Christians of any kind other than the ones pilloried at kos, Huffpo and Pandagon. Dire? Like, what, they’d tar and feather her and parade her through the streets of Wasika to be clamped into the stocks and have a scarlet “A” tattooed into her forehead? Please, Scott, spare me the faux sniffing outrage of the academic at the snake handling God botherers. Unlike the reruns of “Inherit the Wind” playing in your head, the vast majority of pro lifers don’t demonstrate at Abortion clinics and shun their children if they get pregnant. The only point being made by your use of words like “dire” and “defiantly” is to paint Palin and her husband as some kind of metaphorical pseudo Phelps and those who support them as minions applauding a “predestined” decision that was “no decision.”

    You need to get out more, Scott. Pro lifers are people too, just like mechanics who want to be writers can make up stuff in Iraq, pre-traumatic stress disorder being an understudied affliction.

  128. SEK – How do you know that the ramifications would be dire had their daughter chosen a different path?

  129. The second link you refer to is broken, it goes to an error page.

    Who exactly is she defying?

    The less virulent pro-life organizations that believe rape and incest are a valid reasons to terminate a pregnancy.

    First of all, let me qualify this by saying I am pro-choice to viability, and oppose anything after that. But the pro-life except in rape or incest seem the most disingenuous of all positions to me. If you believe life starts and conception, and abortion is murder, then how can you justify killing a child for the crimes of its parent(s)?

    Sorry, you can’t have it both ways.

  130. Still reading the comments, but

    I’m actually fine, now, with Libs trashing Bristol, Sarah, etc.
    They’re tough women.

    And, you know? What’s the largest demographic for unwed teenaged pregnancy brought to term, anyway? I really, really like those single teen moms getting a look behind the curtain of smiling condescension they experience all the time.

  131. Almost certainly not what you expect.

    I think you’d find my knowledge about Assemblies of God (which she attended until 38) to be pretty accurate, actually.

    That’s quite a lot of syllables you’ve expended critiquing the praising techniques of others, there, Scott.

    It’s what I responded to because it’s all I’ve heard about this afternoon.

    Not really, because they’re (by and large) capable of distinguishing between the world as they wish it were and the world as it really is. In the real world, abortion’s a legal option — and Bristol still chose the more difficult, more responsible option.

    I get this, but given the strength of people’s convictions on this particular issue, it’s odd to praise someone for not doing something legal-but-immoral.

    Also, it should be noted, I think this a matter of random debate on the internet, not anything more. I find the hypocrisy — disingenuous quality of the praise — amusing in itself, not politically revealing or relevant.

    Until it is know with some certainty that this pregnancy was unplanned, and therefore ‘abortion’ was a viable question, then using this incident as ammunition in the abortion war is inappropriate and distasteful.

    Thomas, you make a fine point here, but then the debate would shift to whether you believe someone just this side of statutory rape laws is fit to be a parent. (Note: I’m not testing those waters, merely pointing at the lake.)

    You might want to look at Dobson’s entire statement before you pass it off as a political expediency

    I wasn’t passing it off as political expediency — in fact, I was saying it’s exactly the opposite. Abortion’s one of those issues in which a person’s depth of belief is unassailable, so when a person for whom abortion-is-murder praises someone for not terminating a pregnancy, it’s disingenuous in the extreme.

    The Left should really try hard to stifle their panic and think this through.

    I’ve seen this mentioned, but “the” Left — be it liberals, leftists, socialists, marxists, anarchists, Democrats, whatever — is stifling laughter, not panic. If you’re the sort of person enthused by McCain’s decision, this might be difficult to see, but it’s true nonetheless. Consider this: when the scandal broke, Obama was able to benefit from it in such a way as to merit praise from his opposition. That’s a win-win scenario for him, a lose-lose one for McCain.

  132. Odd. Scott, you seem to be making a case for that this is a scandal for the McCain-Palin campaign.

    Maybe more short-word explanations are in order, because I’m not getting it.

  133. I am endlessly amused that for all the vitriol on the left, who is it we are talking about? It ain’t Obama. McCain hit a homerun with this pick. You guys on the left are just pissed because Palin isn’t an ivy leaguer. I wish I had a dime for every friend who is a liberal who has sent me that email talking about all the different jobs a homemaker has done and their payscales. This is just proof they have zero respect for hardworking people. Governor Palin, tear this wall down.

  134. - The age of consent is 16 in Alaska, which means she had the right to absolutely choose either way, without parental consent.

    – Which, if we are to believe all the yammering from the Left all these years about choice, means she did exavtly that, made her choice.

    – Hmmm, seems the Left should be praising and applauding her for practicing what THEY preach,

    – But look what they’re doing. Curious. Couldn’t be this entire pile of steaming hypocrisy is simply because of her moms party affiliation, now could it?

  135. …then the debate would shift to whether you believe someone just this side of statutory rape laws is fit to be a parent.

    That sound you just heard was the last bit of Scott’s credibility crashing through the floor into the cellar.

  136. Why does this standard not apply to Baracky?

    It does. He’s changed his positions because, you know, he’s a politician. As opposed to McCain who only opposes bills with his name on — but wait, I got distracted there. Any indication Palin’s changed her position since she filled out that questionnaire?

    BJTexs, I get out plenty, and not only know people who belong to Assemblies of God, I’m related to them. I was even married in their church by one of their pastors. They’re good people, no doubt. But asking me to stay out of your head, then informing me of the films I’m screening in mine sort of undermines your point. Just a little, though.

    First of all, let me qualify this by saying I am pro-choice to viability, and oppose anything after that. But the pro-life except in rape or incest seem the most disingenuous of all positions to me. If you believe life starts and conception, and abortion is murder, then how can you justify killing a child for the crimes of its parent(s)? Sorry, you can’t have it both ways.

    B Moe, we’re in agreement here. I find it impossible to think my way out of that one, and am only comforted by the fact that the decision to terminate is made quickly after the pregnancy is noticed in cases of rape — I don’t know the numbers as to incest, but I’m sure they’d depress me.

  137. Abortion’s one of those issues in which a person’s depth of belief is unassailable, so when a person for whom abortion-is-murder praises someone for not terminating a pregnancy, it’s disingenuous in the extreme.

    Wha? So if you praise someone for doing what you think was the right thing you are being “disingenuous?” What should they have done? Maybe just STFU? Goodness, Scott, are only liberals allowed to praise and extol the young mother who ends her pregnancy rather than foist another child on an overburdened world?

    You may have spent time around AoG churches but you still don’t know squatini about pro-lifers.

  138. B Moe, we’re in agreement here.

    So you are using defiantly as a complement? Because that is how I feel about it, I may disagree with her opinion, but I believe it to be an honest one and will defend her right to advocate it. Defiantly.

  139. NOno, B. Moe and BBH; you missed the implication.

    Implicit in Scott’s discussion of the situation is an assumption so fundamental that he, himself, may not be aware of it: The only possible rational decision for Bristol Palin was to have an abortion. Since she did not do so, the only possible explanation is that she was somehow coerced.

    She could not possibly have chosen to bring the child to term, because she chose to have it aborted and was forced not to do so. The more you argue against that proposition, the louder Scott will get in defending it. That’s because it’s another Revealed TRVTH, not subject to “debate”: in Scott’s world, the only possible thing to do with a fetus is have the doctor kill and remove it, and send the bill to the Feds. Clearly Bristol wanted to do that, but was forced not to, and that’s the end of the story — it has been Decided.

    Regards,
    Ric

  140. 122-
    Apparently they see Roe vs. Wade slipping through their fingers, and to them, if Bristol has her baby, its normal and healthy, she marries, and her and her husband raise the child in a normal happy family, they’ve made the wrong outcome, not the wrong choice, and it sends the wrong message that you can simply go ahead and multiply and be fruitful.

    Its like a cheap, straight-to-video Horror movie about the end of the world. Starring Jean-Claude Van Damme “Must STOP the baby!!!1!”

  141. Scott, you seem to be making a case for that this is a scandal for the McCain-Palin campaign.

    I don’t see this as a scandal at all. I think it points to something scandalous — McCain’s decision to vet his VP candidate after-the-fact — but in my book, there’s nothing but a little bemusement to be had at the expense of Dobson and his ilk.

    I am endlessly amused that for all the vitriol on the left, who is it we are talking about? It ain’t Obama.

    You must not be watching and reading the same things I am, because Fox has Obama’s statement about families being off-limits in heavy rotation.

    Couldn’t be this entire pile of steaming hypocrisy is simply because of her moms party affiliation, now could it?

    Explain again: How is it hypocritical to laugh at people who are, in essence, saying “we should praise this girl for deciding not to participate in what we believe is a genocide”? Because I’m not seeing it.

    That sound you just heard was the last bit of Scott’s credibility crashing through the floor into the cellar.

    Or would have, had I not qualified it right there in next sentence. I’m not saying the slope is slippery-fine so let’s all slide down! I’m just not denying it’s there. Because it is — parental consent and statutory laws are the very next stop down that hill. (And I take it BBH agrees.)

  142. But asking me to stay out of your head, then informing me of the films I’m screening in mine sort of undermines your point. Just a little, though.

    Absolutely not, Scott, as you are the one applying some kind of experiential montage to the Palins by insisting that their daughter really didn’t have any choice based upon her mother’s answers to a political questionnaire and all of the dire consequences that await her! You were never in my head but represented yourself as in the head of the Palins with no more”experience” than an answered political list. your use of language indicates a skewed attitude that brooks no interference as it screeches towards the conclusion of pro-lifers being “disingenuous” and opposition to abortion being “defiant.”

    Therefore I reiterate that there is some kind of film playing in your head that is coloring your conclusions and creating a cartoonist meme on pro lifers in general and the Palins in particular.

  143. “The only possible rational decision for Bristol Palin was to have an abortion. Since she did not do so, the only possible explanation is that she was somehow coerced.”

    – Absolutely Ric. that seems to flow naturally from the very point. All things sinister for any decision that doesn’t agree with the desired outcome.

    – I should have followed through on the “outcome” theme, but as we’re constantly assured by the followers of the “Temple of the nuanced community”, such implication would be obvious.

    – You just won’t ever hear them say that.

  144. You can’t say you aren’t going to say something after you just said it, Scott.

    Unless you a speaking to a bunch of Democrat, I mean.

  145. #11 Comment by Pablo on 9/2 @ 12:00 pm #

    “Biden just make the same case at a Townhall event in Florida: Children are off limits. ”

    That’s interesting though not surprising. Probably hoping everyone forgets about this…

    Sen. Biden’s Daughter Arrested
    AP via Yahoo ^ | 8/3/2002

    CHICAGO (AP) – The daughter of Sen. Joseph Biden ( news, bio, voting record), D-Del., was arrested on a misdemeanor charge of obstructing a police officer early Saturday, police said. Ashley Blazer Biden, 21, of Wilmington, Del., was with a group of people on a North Side street where several bars are located when someone else threw a bottle at a police officer, police said. When officers went to arrest another person, Biden blocked the officer’s path and made intimidating statements, Officer JoAnn Taylor said. Biden was arrested on suspicion of obstructing a police officer. She was released from custody and is scheduled to appear in court Sept. 20. Sen. Biden’s spokeswoman, Margaret Aitken, declined to comment Saturday, calling it a private, family matter.

  146. ric, as usual nailed it. Scott wouldn’t be talking about “dire” consequences and “defiantly” stated points of views if we were having a nice, progressive conversation about the triumph of choice in an unwed teen ending her pregnancy. I’d have to argue that her parents were “defiantly” prop choice and would have created “dire” results if their daughter had chosen to keep the baby.

    Nuance: The other white meat!

  147. Implicit in Scott’s discussion of the situation is an assumption so fundamental that he, himself, may not be aware of it: The only possible rational decision for Bristol Palin was to have an abortion. Since she did not do so, the only possible explanation is that she was somehow coerced.

    I’m trying to figure out how this could be even more wronger, but I’m coming up empty. Because yes, obviously, I believe all fetuses should be aborted so that America might win the extinction sweepstakes!

    You can’t say you aren’t going to say something after you just said it, Scott.

    Take it up with Big Bang Hunter, as he actually said it. I simply said “It’s the next logical step in this conversation.”

    your use of language indicates a skewed attitude that brooks no interference as it screeches towards the conclusion of pro-lifers being “disingenuous” and opposition to abortion being “defiant.”

    First, it’s not my “use of language,” it’s my language — words, sentences, the whole language deal. And yes, I do think moral commendations for not participating in, to quote Dobson, “the biggest holocaust in world history” is a tad disingenuous.

    Second, for the sake of accuracy, that I said Palin’s views were defiant within the context of those who hold them in that she doesn’t concede rape and incest.

  148. (But don’t let your inaccurate account of what I meant by “defiantly” stop you from further reindeer games.)

  149. Notice how both David and SEK are very carefully avoiding commenting on anything close to the point of Jeff’s post? Not to mention how they’ve succeeded in steering the comments thread away from the same?

  150. - Shorter Scott. “I don’t like Palin”.

  151. and how dare you ever acknowledge or praise someone for doing what you believe is right. it’s disingenuous.

    WTF? I’m really trying to figure out why that is so amusing.

  152. To the Geezer at #10. Thanks for the words of comfort. I think I am going to have a stroke too…too much verbal trash from the KosKids….Yuck.

  153. it’s like, “Har, Har, look at the rube that holds to their principles us college professors know better than to fall down that rat hole.”

  154. What’s disingenuous is Baracky saying that drilling our own oil wouldn’t help us have more oil. That’s just a stupid thing to say to me. I don’t trust him.

  155. - Head exploding factoid for Progressives:

    – 4.2 million dollars of donations poured into McCain campaign coffers in the 24 hours after her nomination for VP.

  156. So what we have witnessed in the MSM over the past 24 hours, where pundit after pundit has been “applauding” Obama for saying that family matters are off limits, is nothing more than faint praise- because what choice did he really have? Right?

  157. Do they have theme music?

    Yeah, I’m pretty sure it’s called “The (Democratic) Party’s Over”.

    You guys will be lucky if the worst that happens is an Obama defeat, rather than a full-fledged move to the political scrapheap along with the Free Soilers and the Know-Nothings.

    A couple of facts to chew on:

    1) Hillary’s brother has been meeting with McCain. I don’t think she’s getting over it, do you?
    2) VP-nominee speeches are usually yawn-fests with approximately the same ratings as a Les Nessman hog report. Not this one. The entire nation is going to be glued to their sets, thanks to you and yours! Imagine how grateful Obama must be!
    3) McCain’s media team has been en fuego, working YouTube like masters. That, to me, has been the biggest surprise of this election cycle.

    John McCain is so far inside Obama’s OODA loop that he’s practically flying up Obama’s ass.

    The only question is whether it’s going to be a 1968-level humiliation or a 1972-level bitchslapping.

    You’re doing a heckuva job, Barry!

    Personally, I don’t think Obama ever planned on getting this far — he was probably shooting for building brand recognition with an eye toward a serious run in 2012. When his pre-planned script ran out he simply got stuck.

  158. #128,

    “just like mechanics who want to be writers can make up stuff in Iraq”

    As a long time mechanic, I object. That one probably did repairs as badly as he wrote “non”-fiction. Bob Pirsig knows about mechanics.

  159. OODA, John Boyd…. I thought I was the only person to read that book. I love you would be too strong I think.

    But Yeah, I love it!

  160. She only had one option. The only reason she had more than one option is…

    Yes, please do finish that, Scott.

  161. BECAUSE OF THE PATRIARCHY!!!

  162. “Comment by david on 9/2 @ 12:05 pm #

    Hello. parallel universe people. Long time no see.
    Your flailing about is comical. Don’t you think your anger might be more productive directed at Sen McCain for putting you in this awkward and embarrassing position? Jeez, how much of his crap are you willing to eat?”

    Clueless and mindless is no way to go through life.

  163. I think it is pretty low to use this seventeen year-old girl as a political cudgel.

    You all stay classy – just like this – david, Scott.

  164. Bull, Scott. The only way to make your objections make any sense whatever is if one assumes that, had she not been pressured, Bristol Palin would have obviously made the decision to abort. Since she did not make the decision to abort, obviously she was pressured, and (here’s a free meme for you) complimenting people for giving in to pressure cancels any compliments due to McCain for withstanding the pressure of being tortured.

    Or, Hell, you can go back and fisk your own posts. How ’bout it: where is the narrow little gap wherein we can edge the notion that Bristol Palin might have chosen not to abort even in the absence of coercion? If it’s there, you’ll have to point it out; it certainly isn’t visible at first glance.

    It is the single least attractive, most frustrating feature of dealing with leftoids. They claim to be “multicultural”; in fact they are the most bigoted jingoists on the planet, because their assumption is that their set of notions is biological or perhaps physics, shared by every animate being on the planet and ninety percent of the stuffed ones. Any deviation from the behavior of an obscure professor of fuzzy studies at some mid-range university in the US, Canada, or England can only be because of villainy (deliberately behaving in ways they know to be wrong, i.e. different from those of SEK and Prof. Caricature), coercion (villains, already defined, compelling misbehavior), or insanity. There is nobody on the planet who does not agree with SEK; there are just some who pretend not to.

    It wasn’t attractive in 1964, and it hasn’t mellowed with age. In my heart, I know he’s full of shit.

    Regards,
    Ric

  165. I dunno quite where to fit this in, but compare and contrast Schultz’s diatribe with Hillary’s dismissive “I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas” retort on 60 Minutes.

  166. Do they have theme music?

    Yes. “It’s My Party (and I’ll cry if I want to).”

  167. Notice how both David and SEK are very carefully avoiding commenting on anything close to the point of Jeff’s post?

    Not “carefully,” but willfully and brazenly.

    and how dare you ever acknowledge or praise someone for doing what you believe is right. it’s disingenuous.

    For the record: You also won’t be receiving an “A” on that paper just because you turned it in. Competence — or basic compliance — isn’t praiseworthy.

    4.2 million dollars of donations poured into McCain campaign coffers in the 24 hours after her nomination for VP.

    I suppose I should be quaking, what with the entirely unpredictable happening — unless, of course, the fact that McCain’s choice panders to those in the base who’d only grudgingly supported him before he put Palin on the ticket, and they decided to contribute. Maybe his $47M August will top Obama’s $50M June or July. Wait, it can’t do that. Maybe it’ll top his August tally. (And we’ll remember that breaking this up into months is sort of arbitrary, like the hitter who’s .500 in his last twenty AB but is still sporting a cool .230 on the season.)

    Seriously, I love the counter-narrative. Sure, McCain’s infighting with party brass over his potential VP is a sign that ALL IS HEALTHY AND WELL WITHIN THE PARTY. The fact that neither Bush nor Cheney will attend the convention is a sign that ALL IS HEALTHY AND WELL WITHIN THE PARTY. Bush’s unpopularity won’t reflect poorly on McCain, though, because he’s a maverick, not like Bush at all. Good thing they don’t have film of McCain’s saying he’s voted with Bush 90 percent of the — what? Well, crap.

  168. Competence — or basic compliance — isn’t praiseworthy.

    so you’re sticking with “she had no other choice”??? make up your mind, please.

  169. Bull, Scott. The only way to make your objections make any sense whatever is if one assumes that, had she not been pressured, Bristol Palin would have obviously made the decision to abort. Since she did not make the decision to abort, obviously she was pressured, and (here’s a free meme for you) complimenting people for giving in to pressure cancels any compliments due to McCain for withstanding the pressure of being tortured.

    Well said, Ric.

    What is unsaid is that Scott assumes he knows what conversation Miss Palin had with her parents and the details of that conversation.

    He can guess, and if he was honest, state that he is speculating. But he assumes he knows what was said between three people, none of whom have confided in him. He doesn’t know anymore than any of us here do what was said. All that we have are the facts that Miss Palin is pregnant and intends to carry the child to term and marry the father. From that meager collection of information he erects an entire edifice, on a foundation more unstable than Swamp Castle’s.

    Yet the edifice is erected to do what? To use a seventeen-year old as a political cudgel.

    Classy, all the way – and so intellectually honest.

  170. The fact that neither Bush nor Cheney will attend the convention is a sign that ALL IS HEALTHY AND WELL WITHIN THE PARTY.

    um

    granted it’s via sattelite, what with that, “THE PRESIDENT MUST CONTROL TEH HURRICANES” thing, but he is making an appearance.

  171. darn it, it ate my link. hang on…. here

  172. I think it is pretty low to use this seventeen year-old girl as a political cudgel.

    I know, everyone should take the path Limbaugh paved with Chelsea and — wait, scratch that. Maybe everyone should follow Bill O’Reilly’s lead on teen pregnancy and not blame the parents — wait, that one’s a no-go too. Well then, how about we complain about the way Obama’s berating Palin for not raising her daughter — nevermind. How about we just whine because the GOP’s VP selection is a mistake of Quaylian proportions? Good idea, that.

  173. There’s a sort of inevitable arc of development quality to SEK’s appearance here – any moment now we should be treated to a hypothetical in which a well-known and notorious roustabout becomes pregnant….

  174. LOOK OVER THERE!!! IS THAT A RABBIT???

  175. SEK

    I stand by my earlier assessment regarding your moral compass, because you seem to find something wrong (or at least humorous) about praising an act that is legal yet immoral. Let me clear up any misunderstanding you may have on this issue; The praise is a good thing because it seeks to encourage more of the same behavior. I’m a little surprised such an easy one would slip by you, unless of course you are more interested in political points than actual truth or morality.

  176. sorry everybody, my caps lock is being squirrely today.

  177. Maggie, if the media says the Republican party has been reduced to a swarm of malcontents over the Palin pick, it must be true.

  178. hell, if SEK says it it’s definitely true. IT’S ON THE INTARWEBS!!!eleventy!!!!

  179. I think she’s a great choice, Scott. We need a Washington outsider to bring Hope and Change I think. Also she can help McCain understand that there’s oil in Alaska. For real. It’s under ground where you can’t see it, but there’s like TONS of it.

  180. I mean, did you see that Bradley spinning in place video he linked long ago? track vehicles are known for their maneuverability ya know.

  181. that and they hate dogs, sneakily.

  182. happyfeet,

    That’s what I mean about dropping an anvil with a smiley face.

  183. Maybe his $47M August will top Obama’s $50M June or July. Wait, it can’t do that.

    The RNC has about 5 times as much cash on hand as the DNC, and McCain is going to get an extra $84 million from public financing (which Obama isn’t). But do keep whistling past the graveyard.

  184. How about we just whine because the GOP’s VP selection is a mistake of Quaylian proportions? Good idea, that.

    I’ve got a better idea. Why don’t you do that while we snicker and laugh at you?

  185. Palin walks to work, which is just cool – both for health reasons and for glowball worming.

  186. How about we just whine because the GOP’s VP selection is a mistake of Quaylian proportions? Good idea, that.

    Please do.

    Hint: Quayle got elected. Bentsen didn’t. If you prefer half-witty bon mots to victory, de gustibus, don’tcha know?

  187. so you’re sticking with “she had no other choice”??? make up your mind, please.

    I’m sticking own-petard-hoisting, with a side of schadenfreude, thank you very much.

    The only way to make your objections make any sense whatever is if one assumes that, had she not been pressured, Bristol Palin would have obviously made the decision to abort.

    Not in the least. All it assumes is that the language of “choice” is disingenuous coming from the mouth of someone who would force women to carry a child to term even if they’ve been raped or raped by relatives. I don’t need to know any of the particulars to find high irony in her choice of words, i.e. in a situation in which carrying the baby to term is the only option, like the one her mother favors, there’d be no choice to her choice. I don’t have to presume anything about her actual decision-making process to comment on the ideal-but-hypothetical situation in which no decision would be made.

    The rest of your comment — what with its bogeyman professors who take their communist colonics so powerful they leak marxism from both ears — is pure noise and doesn’t merit a response.

  188. Honestly, though, I hope the left keeps it up. Everytime I hear or read one of these anti-women attacks, a Republican angel gets it’s wings.

  189. I’m kind of excited about the Palin pick, mostly because McCain thinks my speech about elections should be limited to what the government thinks is acceptable. Which makes him a grade-A super douche.

  190. I know, everyone should take the path Limbaugh paved with Chelsea and — wait, scratch that.

    Got it. Two wrongs make a right.

    So…the next time terrorists attack the US, we get to bomb Mecca.

    Is that about the size of it?

  191. I’m sticking own-petard-hoisting, with a side of schadenfreude

    Snicker. Exactamundo. But it’s not turning out quite the way you imagined…

  192. #

    Comment by N. O’Brain on 9/2 @ 3:48 pm #

    “Comment by david on 9/2 @ 12:05 pm #

    Hello. parallel universe people. Long time no see.
    Your flailing about is comical. Don’t you think your anger might be more productive directed at Sen McCain for putting you in this awkward and embarrassing position? Jeez, how much of his crap are you willing to eat?”

    Clueless and mindless is no way to go through life.

    Hey! Save some bitter insults for me!

  193. thor: Thanks for your input! Now, suck my dick.

  194. All it assumes is that the language of “choice” is disingenuous coming from the mouth of someone who would force women to carry a child to term even if they’ve been raped or raped by relatives. I don’t need to know any of the particulars to find high irony in her choice of words, i.e. in a situation in which carrying the baby to term is the only option, like the one her mother favors, there’d be no choice to her choice. I don’t have to presume anything about her actual decision-making process to comme yada yada yada …

    That’s because you don’t accept the basic premises of those who are “pro-life.” That it is a life.

  195. Thing is, Scott, you don’t have to turn the paper in. You have a right to not turn in the paper. If you had to turn the paper in, there would be no justice. In fact, we should have Federal programs to ensure that you aren’t forced to turn the paper in.

    So, if you turn the paper in nowadays, it’s for extra credit. Congratulations. I’m proud of you.

  196. “Good thing they don’t have film of McCain’s saying he’s voted with Bush 90 percent of the — what?”

    – Hey you know, thats right. Lets see who else did that. Oh, Biden did too, and Obama. Well in Obama’s case when he bothered to vote at all.

    – Does that mean if Obiden gets elected it would be four more years of Booooosh?

    – This meme is one of those arguments that looks important, until you actually look at the record. Then it turns out, on those very few occasion that Congress gets anything done, it only happens when both Dems and Reps vote for it.

  197. I’m sticking own-petard-hoisting, with a side of schadenfreude, thank you very much.

    how so?

  198. Show me where I said she lacked free will. I pretty clearly stated that the ramifications of her terminating a pregnancy given her parent’s position on the matter would be dire. That’s not the same thing — not even remotely, nor even suggestively — as saying she has no free will.

    The no-free-will thing was pretty clearly pointed, Scott, because — as others have pointed out — to your way of thinking she really had no other choice.

    Your argument was a loser, but like any good academic, you’ll hang on, looking for a reversal. Unfortunately, you’re not applying the lessons of Mamet’s Redbelt soundly, so I don’t see it happening.

    Other than that, I’m surprised to see you throw in the talking point about the McCain campaign “just now beginning to vet” Palin. Rethuglicans are big on vast oil conspiracies and (to some minds, blowing up levees), but they aren’t savvy enough to vet a candidate before naming her?

    Goodness, but that’s sad, Scott.

    But I don’t doubt you when you say you’re “laughing” at the pick; after all, Palin doesn’t have the requisite pedigree, as far as you’re concerned. Unfortunately, you represent a very small contingent of progressive snobs and wannabe wonks. So it’s quite possible your laughter might wind up drowned out by the cheers of all those dullards who spend time raising kids and doing the PTA thing, starting businesses and going to youth hockey games, tailgating with friends and going into government not as a bureaucratic lifer, but rather because somebody needed to fight those who are.

    You’d sniff and call that a cacophony. I’d smile and call it kismet.

  199. …there’d be no choice to her choice

    Because, of course, were abortion completely illegal, there would be no possible way for her to get one. I’ll bet she can’t get a doobie, either…

  200. “Yet the edifice is erected to do what? To use a seventeen-year old as a political cudgel.”

    Edifice wrecks.

  201. Scott also doesn’t seem to accept the Bristol is not Sarah.

  202. There’s a sort of inevitable arc of development quality to SEK’s appearance here – any moment now we should be treated to a hypothetical in which a well-known and notorious roustabout becomes pregnant…

    Yes, there is, which is why I don’t appear all that often. There’s a, how do you say it? Pile on effect, whereby for every one comment I write fifteen people respond, then if I don’t respond to each and every one of them, Darleen whines.

    The praise is a good thing because it seeks to encourage more of the same behavior.

    You’re not getting it, EG. I’m talking 1) about Palin’s policy position and 2) the reaction to Bristol’s decision by like-minded advocacy groups. Sure, I see the value of the praise, but that doesn’t mean I also don’t see the irony behind it. Because I do.

    I think she’s a great choice, Scott. We need a Washington outsider to bring Hope and Change I think. Also she can help McCain understand that there’s oil in Alaska.

    You’re not alone in this, happy, but that still doesn’t change the fact that, in the end, her selection will have been a mistake. According to McCain’s own criteria, she’s not fit to lead, doesn’t know squat about foreign affairs, &c. She’s a desperate, blustering appeal to the base because the RNC wouldn’t let McCain have his first two choices (Leiberman and Ridge).

    The RNC has about 5 times as much cash on hand as the DNC, and McCain is going to get an extra $84 million from public financing (which Obama isn’t).

    And he’ll have the spending restrictions that go with it — and it’ll be divvied up to support Republican candidates in crucial districts — and Obama will have no such restrictions — nor will he have to divvy his war-chest up. There’s a reason McCain’s started the attack ads so early: once he accepts the nomination, he’ll have his $84M and the RNC chest and that’ll be it.

    Hint: Quayle got elected. Bentsen didn’t. If you prefer half-witty bon mots to victory, de gustibus, don’tcha know?

    On the back of a candidate who ran on the strength of eight years of unprecedented GOP popularity. I don’t think the situation’s are quite analogous (even if the quality of the candidates is).

  203. but that doesn’t mean I also don’t see the irony behind it

    what irony?

  204. Had McCain chosen either Ridge or Lieberman, he wouldn’t be getting the reaction he’s getting. Sure, some social cons would be happy; but who’s really energized by the Palin pick are right-leaning libertarians, classical liberals, small-government reform types, legal conservatives, and even a notable contingency of Dems who came away from the primary process feeling that Bros Before Hos might wind up as the motto on the Obama $12 bill…

  205. or is it sooper sekrit irony that those people stick with their beliefs? poor goofuses.

  206. Not gonna play well with flyover country moms at all.

    Obama will be tied to the slurs of the left via TV ads from outside the McCain camp.

  207. For instance, I’m well documented in my disdain for McCain. But I love the Palin pick. And I’m hardly the constituency you seem to want to pin Palin to — which appears to be a caricature of rightwing religious fanatics. Maybe it’s the fish…

    She’s got me jazzed. I know: a real headscratcher, ain’t it?

  208. B Moe @ 82:

    But the governor of Alaska doesn’t have dictatorial powers like the Vice President does.

    You win the thread.

  209. You wouldn’t be predicting her albatrosseyness if you didn’t fear her appeal I don’t think. She can’t never be Dan Quayle cause she has charisma. NPR will have to slap the bitch upside her stupid bitch head with entirely new memes what they’ll have to make up.

  210. And WOMEN, Jeff. I don’t think you can overstate how excited women are with this choice. My mil was practically GIDDY.

  211. I like Scott. He always defends himself against my objections in the same way: first he gives a concrete example of what I object to, then he claims it doesn’t exist.

    FYI, SEK: Down here amongst the trailer trash, marriage customs are getting almost Icelandic. We make the assumption that regardless of reality, justice, or the welfare of anyone concerned, some judge is gonna declare that the woman gets all the money, so the neatest way out is just to never get married. That isn’t the majority, yet, but it’s getting there.

    Q: How is divorce court like a tornado?
    A: Some redneck’s about to lose a trailer.

    Palin & CO. are from the upper, sophisticated end of that demographic. They know perfectly well the girl could’ve gotten an abortion at any time, as does she, and the ramifications would be dire, dire I tell ya — Hell, Sarah might’ve said “I’m awful disappointed, honey.” Crushing. You have mixed the customs up with those of your clients, the horribly misunderstood and maltreated Muslims.

    Regards,
    Ric

  212. I’m not getting it because I understand that Bristol, who is 17 and as such deserves praise for moral choices, is not her mother, who has outgrown the need for them. Were you aware that they are 2 separate individuals?

  213. Other than that, I’m surprised to see you throw in the talking point about the McCain campaign “just now beginning to vet” Palin.

    So it’s my imagination that no one contacted Alaskan GOP officials? Because they sure seem to think otherwise.

    But I don’t doubt you when you say you’re “laughing” at the pick; after all, Palin doesn’t have the requisite pedigree, as far as you’re concerned.

    Keep in mind she doesn’t meet McCain’s standards, either. People tend to notice that.

    Unfortunately, you represent a very small contingent of progressive snobs and wannabe wonks. So it’s quite possible your laughter might wind up drowned out by the cheers of all those dullards who spend time raising kids and doing the PTA thing, starting businesses and going to youth hockey games, tailgating with friends and going into government not as a bureaucratic lifer, but rather because somebody needed to fight those who are.

    I suppose I don’t have my pulse on the people like you do, Jeff. But your Norman Rockwell caricature is convincing on its face, even though its tone is just this side of Tweek’s dad:

    Sometimes a hot cup of French Roast Amaretto is just what a man needs to get him through the day. That smooth aroma and mild taste is what make Tweek coffee so very special. Special, like an Arizona sunrise or a juniper wet with dew. A light rain in the middle of a dusty afternoon or a hug from your dear old aunt.

    Indeed.

  214. You know why I like Palin? Because she is an ACTUAL outsider. She’s a REAL person, not a life-long politician. She’s not a lawyer-turned politician.
    Plus, she didn’t pull herself-up from her husband’s bootstraps. Hello Pelosi. Hillary. Monica Conyers.

  215. If she is a mistaken choice that will result in McCain losing, you should be happy and encouraging us to support her.

  216. “You’d sniff and call that a cacophony. I’d smile and call it kismet.”

    Yeah, I’ve noticed that reactionary leftists hate cacophony.

    They hate disorder of any kind, up to and including the messiest, most destructive, most creative economic system EVAH: Capitalism.

    Hate it, hate it, hate it.

  217. I’m talking 1) about Palin’s policy position and 2) the reaction to Bristol’s decision by like-minded advocacy groups.

    and 3) demonstrating that you don’t really understand either of those.

    You know, you might want to get out of your office and meet some normal, working-class people every once in a while. The ones who own small businesses (and pay taxes), who like to hunt and fish, who don’t really approve of abortion, but still worry about their teenage daughters falling pregnant.

    It’s educational, I promise! You’ll be surprised at how little overlap there is between the real working class and Marx’s lumpenproletariat.

    If you simply can’t face those awful, awful people in person, Bourdieu came closer than most to explaining them in an academically-acceptable way.

    Their habitus is not yours, SEK. Ignore that fact at your peril.

  218. Keep in mind she doesn’t meet McCain’s standards, either.

    you’ve said this twice now. what standards are you talking about specifically, because, um, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

  219. So it’s my imagination that no one contacted Alaskan GOP officials?

    You mean the ones she’s been trying to send to jail?

    Yeah, funny about that, innit?

  220. (Note: I’m not testing those waters, merely pointing at the lake.)

    You disingenuous ass.

  221. Amaretto was genuinely hot for awhile a few years ago but now all the new flavors are green tea or mango or chai or pomegranate.

  222. You wouldn’t be predicting her albatrosseyness if you didn’t fear her appeal I don’t think.

    This really, really isn’t the case. Reading here and Patterico today’s been an education. I mean, Jeff’s going on and on about classical liberals and libertarians loving the Palin pick, while classical liberals and libertarians are gathering some 10,000 strong in a counter-convention. I’m sure the cognitive dissonance is on my end, really, but to me it looks like so much wish-casting.

  223. Amaretto is way too sweet. Flavored coffees suck in general.

  224. And still not even a glimmer on SEK’s part of a response to the overwhelming misogyny his ideological brethren are directing at Palin and her daughter. Apparently that’s something that can’t be addressed even “brazenly and willfully.”

  225. THEY GOT TUCKER CARLSON!!!

  226. That unprecedented GOP popularity had a precedent: Jimmy Carter
    He was so awful, so inexperienced, so overmatched by the job that he got drummed out of office ASAP.
    Jimmy Carter’s thin 1976 resume outpaces Barack Obama’s sum of life experience… and Palins job experience kicks the crap out of Baracks.

    Barack got a shot in today at Palin’s stint as mayor and played up his experience at…. get this now.. running his campaign. Huh. Alaska must be a bigger place than the Barack campaign what with the $11B budget and all.
    Oh. There was that executive experience handing out $100M of grant money to Ayres’ maoist buddies and generally getting nothing for the money…

  227. I saw amaretto and white chocolate hanging out together at Sky Bar telling each other how great they look.

  228. “My mil was practically GIDDY.”

    – Mine also, but then she gets giddy when Italian tomato’s droop below 79 cents a pound.

    – I see the Husband had a fishing license infraction a few decades ago. This definately smacks of the stink of political Cod. The NYT should do a hard hitting investigation into his fitness to be a father.

  229. I suppose I don’t have my pulse on the people like you do, Jeff. But your Norman Rockwell caricature is convincing on its face, even though its tone is just this side of Tweek’s dad…

    And that right there is why Obama is fixing to get steam rolled.

  230. And still not even a glimmer on SEK’s part of a response to the overwhelming misogyny his ideological brethren are directing at Palin and her daughter.

    That’s okay. He’ll get the message when the Chixulub-scale backlash comet lands on Obama’s scrotum.

  231. You know, you might want to get out of your office and meet some normal, working-class people every once in a while. The ones who own small businesses (and pay taxes), who like to hunt and fish, who don’t really approve of abortion, but still worry about their teenage daughters falling pregnant.

    Christ almighty, first Jeff, now you? Look, the appeal of your rose-tinted caricature of “decent, hard-working folk” borders on offensive. I know, you speak for them, know their interest, are them, whereas I’m not, and you know that because … because!

    You disingenuous ass.

    Rob, I kindly invite you to read BBH’s comment, the one in which he jumps recklessly into that very lake. For one, it proves I wasn’t being disingenuous — I really do believe that’s the next move in the discussion — but moreover, it proves that I’m correct inasmuch as my belief was validated by a subsequent comment. Seriously, if pointing out the obvious direction in which discussions of Type A or B move makes one an ass, well then, I suppose I’m an ass. Note, though, that I’m not now — nor am I ever — the one who resorts to childish name-calling.

  232. Scott, all that’s in your head. All you’re doing is lowering her debate expectations for her really. But people will see her and like her. You know that. She is very likeable. Joe Biden is not likeable. The media people what ask questions at debates? Not likeable. Sarah P is like in NASCAR when a car laps another car. Whatever you call it. Way ahead of the game.

  233. whereas I’m not, and you know that because … because!

    Because of your attitude, dude. Because of your smarmy ass Norman Rockwell snark. You don’t want to come across as an elitist snob then don’t act like one.

  234. you know that because … because!

    Because I grew up in a working class home. Because I worked for a living (as in “paid my own bills and bought my own home” not “worked at the espresso shop to pay for concert tickets”) before I went to grad school.

    You?

  235. that’s just your interpretation, B Moe.

  236. Oh, is that the contingent for that pro-life Ron Paul guy, Scott?

    It would be really cool if they outnumber the anarchists.

  237. “I mean, Jeff’s going on and on about classical liberals and libertarians loving the Palin pick, while classical liberals and libertarians are gathering some 10,000 strong in a counter-convention. I’m sure the cognitive dissonance is on my end, really, but to me it looks like so much wish-casting.”

    – You wish to tell us how we feel it seems. You don’t like how we feel, so we should feel like you say we should.

    – Let me know how that works out for you. You may be on to something there.

  238. See, this is exactly the reason why I stop commenting here:

    And still not even a glimmer on SEK’s part of a response to the overwhelming misogyny his ideological brethren are directing at Palin and her daughter.

    Just because I’m the only liberal here doesn’t mean I’m responsible for every single thing my “ideological brethren” do. Really, it doesn’t. I mean, you could — and, in the past, have — spend all day listing the topics I haven’t addressed, then call me dishonest for not addressing them, but you know how much fun that is? (Hint: Not at all.) I don’t feel obliged to respond to each and every complaint you have about Democrats, liberals, leftists, communists, Marxists, and every other group you’re too ignorant to know the difference between. Not “you” in particular, M.O., but the general “you” who spew idiocies like “Obama’s a socialist,” when, in fact, if said person knew anything about socialism (other that “it is bad, you know”) they’d know Obama’s far to the right of the average socialist, and that his support for the watered-down socialist institutions of the New Deal doesn’t quite dovetail with actual socialist belief.

  239. Also, SEK: you’re giving us a lecture on how the “religious right” is going to react to the pregnancy. I know those people, and they’re not going to react that way.

    Your “church lady” stereotype is about 40 years out of date, and wasn’t very accurate even then.

  240. “#

    Comment by Merely Observing on 9/2 @ 4:56 pm #

    And still not even a glimmer on SEK’s part of a response to the overwhelming misogyny his ideological brethren are directing at Palin and her daughter. Apparently that’s something that can’t be addressed even “brazenly and willfully.””

    When you’re immersed in hate, you don’t notice it.

    The fish/water effect, I believe it’s called.

  241. Ron Paul has more experience than Barack, and he’s got a stutter when cornered just like Barack does.
    Of the two stutters, I will say Barack’s is the more refined, but you can tell he is buying time to lie or twist the narrative, while Paul is just barking like a flummoxed chihuahua

  242. It’s true that you don’t have to answer for every statement and action of those with whom you identify, SEK, but is it really so unfair to suggest that in the comments to a post whose driving theme is the blatant and disgusting misogyny that the political left is directing towards Palin, that you, as a self-identified member of that same political faction, might at least touch on that subject?

  243. So it’s my imagination that no one contacted Alaskan GOP officials? Because they sure seem to think otherwise.

    Would those be her political opponents? The ones whose apple carts she upset?

    And are you getting this information from the same press that reported Palin was in a secessionist party based on a single source, without bothering to actually talk to Palin herself?

  244. Oh, Scott, please.

    And, while Palin might not meet McCain’s standard for CiC, she’s not been appointed to run for that position. Whereas Obama… Well, Hillary took care of that little bit of business for us during the primaries.

    Finally, while I know it’s de rigeur to reduce any kind of pastiche of middle Americana to “Rockwellesque,” such self-conscious irony doesn’t get rid of the actual referents. You know, the people that New Yorker cover with Obama in the White House was “not really intended for.”

    Or to put it another way, your disapproving of the description does not make the demographic any less real.

  245. “Just because I’m the only liberal here….

    – “just because I’m the only post-modern Progressive Liveral here at the momnet….”

    – There….fixed that for you….

  246. Because of your smarmy ass Norman Rockwell snark. You don’t want to come across as an elitist snob then don’t act like one.

    I’m not the one who’s reducing America to a Norman Rockwell painting or a Sanka ad here, just pointing out that people who are and know working-class people see that pablum for the bullshit it is. It’s condescension — the faux-populism of picket fences. Is it elitist of me to point that out?

    Because I grew up in a working class home. Because I worked for a living (as in “paid my own bills and bought my own home” not “worked at the espresso shop to pay for concert tickets”) before I went to grad school. You?

    Christ, is this what it’s descended to? “Only the Volk can know the pain of the Volk”? My background is Southern and solidly working-class. I’ve attended only state schools — no Harvard, Hopkins or Cornell for me — but you know what? This is a bullshit line of inquiry, so I’m going to call shenanigans before you force me to point out that by these standards, no man can speak about abortion because he’s never been pregnant, or whatever other identitarian idiocy you’d like to trot out.

  247. Just because I’m the only liberal here doesn’t mean I’m responsible for every single thing my “ideological brethren” do.

    aaaaw, then maybe you should quite regurgitating what we’ve already heard from them.

  248. the general “you” who spew idiocies like “Obama’s a socialist”…

    That would be me.

  249. That would be me.

    well, you know, he is going to make you work and care

  250. “It’s condescension — the faux-populism of picket fences.”

    And you would know this….how?

    Ever built a picket fence?

  251. “I’ve attended only state schools — no Harvard, Hopkins or Cornell for me —”

    But you sure as hell sound like you did.

    Smarmy is the term used here earlier.

  252. I mean, Jeff’s going on and on about classical liberals and libertarians loving the Palin pick, while classical liberals and libertarians are gathering some 10,000 strong in a counter-convention. I’m sure the cognitive dissonance is on my end, really, but to me it looks like so much wish-casting.

    Yeah. I hear some Hillary supporters are still going to vote for Obama, too — so the fact that many others are crossing over is of no moment.

    Carry on.

  253. One reason not to contact the Alaska GOP is to limit the number of people who know that she is being vetted, which helps to avoid leaks. This is important not only because you want to be able to vet the candidate without press and/or public interference, but also can help to prevent embarrassment/speculation for those who don’t make the cut for whatever reason.

  254. I’m not the one who’s reducing America to a Norman Rockwell painting

    No, you’re reducing it to Bosch painting. An angry sea of demonic, inbred, gun-toting hicks washing up against the bastions of the ivory tower.

    My background is Southern and solidly working-class.

    So you have, in fact, worked for a living and paid your own bills (outside of academia)?

    no man can speak about abortion

    Don’t give yourself a hernia setting up that straw man, SEK. You can speak all you want. Just don’t be surprised when someone else points out that you’re speaking bullshit.

  255. Yeah, this isn’t the first time you’ve taken the “I’m not sayin’… I’m just sayin’…” tack. You’re still a disingenuous ass. You’re the same fellow who got pissed when Jeff pointed out the foul comments some of your brethren on the left made, claiming the timing of pointing the foulness out was as bad as the actual foulness.

    Have a nice time in the gutter.

  256. Oh, you’ve caught me, Scott. I’m a populist. Yup. Definitely. Bingo.

  257. I’m not the one who’s reducing America to a Norman Rockwell painting or a Sanka ad here,

    Yes by God you are. You are the only one who brought it up, just like you brought up the “almost statutory rape” horseshit and then said you didn’t.

    just pointing out that people who are and know working-class people see that pablum for the bullshit it is. It’s condescension — the faux-populism of picket fences. Is it elitist of me to point that out?

    It was elitist of you to bring it up in the first place, it is frankly kind of bone-headed to point it out, it was already plain as day to the rest of us.

  258. this can’t be right…. C-Span says President Bush is the scheduled speaker at 9:45pm ET. I thought he wasn’t going to be in the convention…

  259. I do have to admire your chutzpah in turning a rebuttal of your insinuation into “somebody going there”. Amazingly clever the way you set up a no-lose situation for yourself.

    Dishonest and despicable, but clever.

  260. This is my latest post at http://www.coldfury.com. Enjoy.

    When I was in college I read Sinclair Lewis’ Elmer Gantry. It wasn’t required, I just read it. Elmer was an evangelical fire-and-brimstone preacher. Elmer preached all of the virtues, but never lived them. So it was a tale of hypocrisy. What are we to take from the novel?

    What I took was this: Elmer was scum, likable scum, but still scum. What does that say about the virtues he preached? Nothing.

    What?????

    The virtues are the message. They do not get their value because of the worthiness of the messenger, they are valuable in and of themselves. The fact that the messenger is a real moral sewer doesn’t devalue the message. As an example: let us suppose there is a person who states the value of patriotism, loyalty, and duty. It turns out that this person is a traitor. Does that mean patriotism, loyalty, and duty are not valuable and should not be upheld merely because this prominent person has turned out to be a traitor? The answer is no – patroitism, loyalty, and duty are good despite how a particular messenger has acted.

    The messenger is trading on the worth of the message, trying to feed off its worth. The message is providing the worth to the messenger, not vice-versa. Having high ideals, advocating high ideals means that at some point you will fall short of those ideals. It says all about you when you do fall short, it does not speak to the worth of the ideals. They are worthy and exist whether you advocate them or acknowledge them in the breaking of them. And when you cease to exist, those ideals will still be there. That is because they are ideals.

    Remember that piece of commonsense when reading of Gov. Palin’s daughter.

  261. Oh. And I’m not really sure how what I described was “working class,” either. Let me revisit:

    Unfortunately, you represent a very small contingent of progressive snobs and wannabe wonks. So it’s quite possible your laughter might wind up drowned out by the cheers of all those dullards who spend time raising kids and doing the PTA thing, starting businesses and going to youth hockey games, tailgating with friends and going into government not as a bureaucratic lifer, but rather because somebody needed to fight those who are.

    Nothing too terribly Eugene O’Neill about that, I don’t think…

  262. Would those be her political opponents? The ones whose apple carts she upset?

    By dint of the AWESOME POWER of her REFORM, she managed to alienate every single Republican politician in the state of Alaska. Every last one of them. (Except for Stevens, with whom she remained chummy.)

    And are you getting this information from the same press that reported Palin was in a secessionist party based on a single source, without bothering to actually talk to Palin herself?

    She wasn’t a member, she only pandered to their “Alaska First” message. All the better.

    And, while Palin might not meet McCain’s standard for CiC, she’s not been appointed to run for that position. Whereas Obama … Well, Hillary took care of that little bit of business for us during the primaries.

    The way I see it, only former Presidents are qualified to be Presidents; or maybe I mean Governors, only Governors and former Presidents; or maybe Mayors, only Mayors, Governors, and Presidents (former or otherwise) are qualified to be President. That being the case, VOTE MCCAIN!

  263. Pingback: ZEITGEIST

  264. She wasn’t a member, she only pandered to their “Alaska First” message.

    It’ll be interesting to see whether Middle America finds the AIP or Ayers more disturbing, won’t it?

  265. - Its by video tape maggie.

  266. Alaska would not be entirely stupid to secede I don’t think. Nancy Pelosi thinks she’s in charge there and that has to get old I bet.

  267. “no man can speak about abortion because he’s never been pregnant”

    <strongCHICKENBREEDERS!!!!111eleventyone11!!

  268. Apparently Sara Palin is a horrible mother because her 17 year old daughter is preggers. I have an anecdote I’d like to share:

    My mother was 19 when she had me. In her wedding pictures I am very visibly present. She sacrificed her college career and lots of parties to a young son and her husband. But then, instead of inconsolably bemoaning her wasted life, she received a nursing degree in Night School once I entered grade school. By the time I hit high school in the 80’s she was able to get a Masters in Business Administration (in her 30’s no less!). She now *runs* several hospital ER’s in the Pacific Northwest.

    According to Barak Obama and his ideological ilk, I’m a mistake and my mothers life was wasted because she didn’t follow the advice of many of her friends and get an abortion.

    FUCK. YOU.

  269. - Just close the tab mentally and think of it as a STRONG word!

  270. She wasn’t a member, she only pandered to their “Alaska First” message. All the better.

    um, what in that link is “pandering” to their message? or is it just that she, as the Governor, deigned to address them?

  271. SEK, are you glad that your mother didn’t abort you?

  272. No comment on the link I provided about the vetting, Scott?

    As for “Alaska first,” well, so long as she wasn’t a secessionist, that just marks her as a federalist of sorts. Libertarians and classical liberal types tend to like those.

    Oh. And “pander”? Here’s what I get from your link, with the “pander” bolded:

    Questions had swirled about Sarah Palin’s affiliation with the Independence Party and with former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan. Voter registration records and past news reports, however, show Palin never registered as a member of the Independence Party, and backed Steve Forbes’ presidential campaign in 2000, not Buchanan.

    “Supporters of Barack Obama are engaged in an unfortunate and nasty smear campaign,” McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said, specifically citing issues related to Palin’s politics.

    Gail Fenumiai, director of the Alaska Division of Elections, said Todd Palin twice registered under the Alaskan Independence Party — in 1995 and 2000. Some members of the party have advocated secession from the United States, though that is not a goal listed in the party’s platform.

    Voter registration records show Sarah Palin registered in May 1982 as a member of the Republican Party and has not changed her affiliation. Todd Palin has been registered undeclared since 2002, Fenumiai said.

    Palin did address the Alaskan Independence Party’s state convention by video earlier this year, welcoming the party to Fairbanks.

    “Your party plays an important role in our state’s politics,” she said in the video, which is posted on the party’s Web site. “I’ve always said that competition is so good, and that applies to political parties as well.”

    A free market of ideas?

    How bourgeois.

  273. - Its by video tape maggie.

    but… but… SEK said Republicans were too embarrassed to have him speak.

  274. Having ideals is bad, because then you are expected to live up to them, and if you fail, then you have that nagging incocnsistency to deal with – kind of a gulit. So it is best not to have any ideals, you know, if you keep your expectations low enough you are sure to meet them. That.

    Me? I like people having ideals, and when they fail to meet them, own up to that failure, try to repair the damage, and keep on trying to meet the ideals, no matter how hard it is. I think that shows a lot of character, a good character. I suppose that kind of striving and tolerance is too old-fashioned for many, but I approve of it. Kind of an If reaction to life.

  275. State school and Community college professors can often take on the worst airs.
    They want so bad to be part of the club…. maybe claw their way into the third or fourth tier of the academy that they turn into chameleons.
    No wonder most are voting Obama… God forbid they get selected out

  276. She wasn’t a member, she only pandered to their “Alaska First” message. All the better.

    “Gail Fenumiai, director of the Alaska Division of Elections, said Todd Palin twice registered under the Alaskan Independence Party — in 1995 and 2000. Some members of the party have advocated secession from the United States, though that is not a goal listed in the party’s platform.”

    That is from the link. Scott ain’t even trying any more.

  277. It’s mighty curious that the Dems are spending so much money and psychic energy to convince the Reps that Palin was a horrible choice, isn’t it?

    They just want to make sure that it’s a fair contest, I’m sure.

  278. No, you’re reducing it to Bosch painting. An angry sea of demonic, inbred, gun-toting hicks washing up against the bastions of the ivory tower.

    I did nothing of the sort. Feel free to continue with the lies, though. They’re quite charming.

    So you have, in fact, worked for a living and paid your own bills (outside of academia)?

    NOT RELEVANT. If you want this debate to turn into an identitarian pissing contest, well, this would be an odd place to have one, given that I don’t buy into that bullshit. Nor, if I’m not mistaken — and evidence on this thread to the contrary — is our host.

    You’re the same fellow who got pissed when Jeff pointed out the foul comments some of your brethren on the left made, claiming the timing of pointing the foulness out was as bad as the actual foulness.

    Rob, I say this with all my heart and soul: you, my friend, can go fuck yourself. Note that I’m not calling you a name, merely wishing an action upon you. But why do I want you to fuck yourself? Because you willfully miss the point. As when Thomas writes:

    Until it is know with some certainty that this pregnancy was unplanned, and therefore ‘abortion’ was a viable question, then using this incident as ammunition in the abortion war is inappropriate and distasteful.

    And I respond:

    Thomas, you make a fine point here, but then the debate would shift to whether you believe someone just this side of statutory rape laws is fit to be a parent. (Note: I’m not testing those waters, merely pointing at the lake.)

    I’m not saying wink-wink nudge-nudge, Person I Heartily Wish Would Go Fuck Himself, but “When Topic X arises, Topic Y usually follows.” Which it did. You want to insist I — what, Person I Think Should Go Fuck Himself? That in recognizing the fineness of Thomas’s point and acknowledging the way the direction usually (and did!) turn thereafter, I’m insinuating something about Palin or her daughter and not, as Person Whose Self-Fucking I Endorse fails to recognize, commenting on the conversation itself not the people it’s about. You know what, Leader of the Free People Scott Wants to See Self-Fucking? Conversations about militarism often lead to conversations about Iraq. Heavens! And conversations about the drinking age often lead to conversations about drunk driving. As if! And in this same vein, Mr. Should Already Be Fucking Himself, conversations about teen pregnancies often lead to conversations about statutory rape and the fitness of minors to be parents.

    So here’s the deal: you start fucking yourself, then get back to me when — no, don’t get back to me, just keep on fucking yourself.

  279. OK, so Palin giving a video-taped speech to an “unacceptable” political party is horrible, but Obama spending 20 years in the pews listening to Rev. Wright’s unique brand of Christianity, Marxism, racism and conspiracy theories is okey-dokey.

  280. Feel free to continue with the lies, though.

    Tell us again about Palin “pandering” to the AIP.

    Then you can explain to us why you’re trying to working so hard to dissuade the Republicans from making this disastrous choice.

  281. …and the no vetting. And my working class populism.

  282. I keep hearing these sneers about Norman Rockwell. What, exactly, is so evil that he did? That such an ideal shouldn’t be worked to, or do the detrators find themselves falling so short that they would rather attack him (the messenger) then acknowledge the worth of the message?

    He did those “Four Freedoms” posters, and I think they are inspired, making visible a worthy message.

  283. Comment by SEK on 9/2 @ 5:50 pm #

    Yeah, you really are a condescending prick.

  284. I read the link, Jeff, but to be frank, I’m not inclined to trust what a McCain staffer tells someone who writes for The Corner. I know both parties are liable to be unbiased and all — wait a minute, no I don’t. I think the opposite, in fact. So you’ll excuse me if I wait for independent confirmation.

  285. Because you willfully miss the point

    Oh, Lord! Look who’s talking!

    But we’re in agreement — you think I should go fuck myself (apparently because I pointed out your willingness to defend the ugliness of your political brethren), and I think you should go fuck yourself (because of your willingness to defend the ugliness of your political brethren).

  286. That doesn’t sound like self-fucking, Rob. You can’t do it properly with only one hand.

  287. ZOMG!!! Alaska First!?!

    What’s next, America First?

  288. Would you praise someone for not murdering the person who rear-ended them?

    I probably would praise someone for not murdering the person who rear-ended them if they were legally allowed to do such a thing. Usually though, we have laws to protect people from being murdered, so you don’t have to applaud people for not doing it.

  289. “Gail Fenumiai, director of the Alaska Division of Elections, said Todd Palin twice registered under the Alaskan Independence Party — in 1995 and 2000. Some members of the party have advocated secession from the United States, though that is not a goal listed in the party’s platform.”

    That was from your AP link, Scott. There are some members of the Democrat Party that thinks 911 happened because God Hates Fags, do you want to tote that around?

  290. What, exactly, is so evil that he did?

    Well, hey, Mikey, when did Rockwell ever come up with anything brilliant like this?

    I find Rockwell overly sentimental, but you know, a lot of people like that kind of stuff. Nothing wrong with it, and he was certainly a skilled painter.

  291. Obama not picking Hillary was just stupid, a serious rookie move. The only way to make it worse would be to pick an ass like Biden instead. His racist jew-hating communism is bad too, but that’s really more of a personal issue than a political one.

    His one saving hope is that McCain would rather strap a car battery to your testicles than allow you to speak your mind during an election season.

  292. I’m not inclined to trust what a McCain staffer tells someone who writes for The Corner.

    So your evidence to the contrary would be?

  293. SEK: “The way I see it, only former Presidents are qualified to be Presidents; or maybe I mean Governors, only Governors and former Presidents; or maybe Mayors, only Mayors, Governors, and Presidents (former or otherwise) are qualified to be President. That being the case, VOTE MCCAIN!”

    Instead, you’d trot out some Chicago Machine political hack, a callow opportunist in bed with racists (Wright), terrorists (Ayers), and crooks (Rezko). He threw “changiness” and “hopitude” under the bus when he opted for the ulitmate insider for VP — a bloviating, plagiarising retread of a gaffe machine whose list of draft deferment that rivals Cheney’s.

    Worry about the plank in thine own eye before troubling yourself about the mote in anyone else’s.

  294. SCHULTZ: You know, most professional gardeners have a really nice yard, you know what I mean?

    Indeed I do.

    Go mow yourself.

  295. That doesn’t sound like self-fucking, Rob. You can’t do it properly with only one hand.

    I’ll defer to your expertise; you’re clearly more experienced in the act.

  296. I read the link, Jeff, but to be frank, I’m not inclined to trust what a McCain staffer tells someone who writes for The Corner. I know both parties are liable to be unbiased and all — wait a minute, no I don’t. I think the opposite, in fact. So you’ll excuse me if I wait for independent confirmation.

    That’s convenient: you are not willing to believe those who did the vetting, which in turn allows you to say that she wasn’t vetted.

    How perfectly self-contained!

    By the way, that’s a “senior campaign official.” And an independent confirmation of the vetting would be…what, exactly?

    Face it. She wasn’t on Obamaco’s radar. McCain caught them off-guard. His campaign kept the leaks contained. So now the worst of the worst of the “progressive” left are scurrying to dig up dirt on this woman and her family.

    All because they just don’t get enough joy out of sitting back and “literally laughing” at the pick, presumably.

    Okay. My job is done. Marc Ambinder is convinced, but SEK needs proof other than the fact that Occam’s Razor suggests each of the two major parties more than likely got around to vetting their VP pick.

  297. ‘They’re gonna try to make you afraid of me, because I don’t look like those guys on the dollar bills.’

  298. So your evidence to the contrary would be?

    The press — clearly not biased in any way! — are telling him otherwise. Which happens to be what he wants to hear, or at least what he wants us to believe.

  299. “There are some members of the Democrat Party that thinks 911 happened because God Hates Fags, do you want to tote that around?”

    – Wait. I’m confused. I thought the Progessives said that all the hurricanes of the past 8 years was caused by that.

  300. SCHULTZ: You know, most professional gardeners have a really nice yard, you know what I mean?

    Indeed I do.

    Go mow yourself.

    well, in my experience. no. growing up,a couple of times I heard, “I don’t care that your hosting a PGA tournament if you don’t take care of the yard, I’m calling CHEMLAWN.”

  301. each of the two major parties more than likely got around to vetting their VP pick.

    Jeff, I think he’s trying to set up one of those “Bush is a drooling chimp who can’t tie his own shoes/Bush is a Moriarty-level criminal mastermind” thingies, with McCain in the starring role.

    Now, what was that thingy called again? Oh, yeah.

  302. And an independent confirmation of the vetting would be…what, exactly?

    A report in the New York Times. Maybe a spot on the CNN scroll.

    You know, unbiased media.

  303. “Newspeak is the method for controlling thought through language”

    Which been the reactionary left’s mission for the last, what, 40, 50 years, Jeff?

  304. Say, isn’t the New York Times biased? Is there any particular reason to believe them?

  305. Odd thing — the party that refuses to allow anyone to vet their presidential nominee is so adamant that Palin wasn’t vetted.

  306. Pablo: NYT double-plus-duckspeak, BO-wise.

  307. Howard Wolfson just said he’d take HIllary back to dKos convention if she runs again. Because you need to talk to people you disagree with. Because “it’s a constituency w/in the party.” @@.

  308. #292 SBP:

    Well yeah, Rockwell did do a self-portrait, but he wasn’t really so self-centered to blow up a balloon and put it on display.

    Guess he had a little too much pride in his own talent to resort to that.

  309. I assumed it was some sort of internet slang.

    Bingo, david.

    Go wokk yourself.

  310. That’s because “vetting” can be racist. But, not sexist.

  311. Mikey, I was thinking of the canned shit, a little lower down.

    You’ve simply got to admire a whole-hearted thief like that.

  312. Just because I’m the only liberal here doesn’t mean I’m responsible for every single thing my “ideological brethren” do. Really, it doesn’t. I mean, you could — and, in the past, have — spend all day listing the topics I haven’t addressed, then call me dishonest for not addressing them, but you know how much fun that is? (Hint: Not at all.) I don’t feel obliged to respond to each and every complaint you have about Democrats, liberals, leftists, communists, Marxists, and every other group you’re too ignorant to know the difference between.

    You mean the opposite of what your cadre at Acephelous or Edge of the West do? Wait, no, it’s exactly the same thing. Grouper behavior is the same whether we are talking regulars on a blog or a newsgroup or a coffeshop or a bar. You walk in and fart in the faces of the regulars, if you can’t predict the outcome, well, that’s a reflection on your capacity.

    As for your “chosing between Option 1 and Option 1″ nonsense, numerous attempts to get you to clarify that have resulted only in you telling everyone how stupid they are for not getting it. Looks to me like the problem is either your capacity to communicate your thoughts has been overtopped like a 9th Ward levy, or your capacity to admiting to advancing a bullshit argument is reminicent of a barometer under a force 9 gale.

  313. Levi heading to the convention.

    The kid’s got a cast-iron pair.

    I think they’ll be fine.

  314. #312

    – Well not until Hillery runs again, and the it can be sexist.

  315. well, in my experience. no. growing up,a couple of times I heard, “I don’t care that your hosting a PGA tournament if you don’t take care of the yard, I’m calling CHEMLAWN.”

    Shultz is obviously unfamiliar with the piece of carp home PCs in the homes of IT professionals all over the globe. Just can’t bring ourselves to do what feels like work while at home.

  316. “If a Democrat mom chooses public office, she’s a patriot Wonder Woman imbued with Absolute Moral Authority on children’s, health, and social welfare issues.

    If a Republican mom chooses public office, she’s the child-neglecting spawn of Satan who has no business debating any domestic public policy because of alleged hypocrisy.

    Ain’t feminism grand?”

    -Michelle Malkin

    http://michellemalkin.com/2008/09/02/selective-sympathy-for-moms-in-public-office/

  317. Isn’t there an old saw about recognizing the cobbler’s kids because they’re barefoot?

  318. “…Democrats, liberals, leftists, communists, Marxists, and every other group you’re too ignorant to know the difference between.”

    – Since the Cartah disaster, a distinction with zero difference. Sometimes referred to as “The Big tent”.

  319. I read the link, Jeff, but to be frank, I’m not inclined to trust what a McCain staffer tells someone who writes for The Corner. I know both parties are liable to be unbiased and all — wait a minute, no I don’t. I think the opposite, in fact. So you’ll excuse me if I wait for independent confirmation.

    If this is to become a new standard, will the Parties have to secure Price Waterhouse or someone to do their vetting who can then testify to being a disinterested third party (as if) since you can’t bring yourself to trust a staffer. No one else but a staffer is likelyt ot be able to speak knowledgably about the subject.

    Your logic circuits are fried today friend. I recommend turning in early.

  320. BTW, SEK:

    Obama IS a socialist.

  321. From Jeff’s link on Levi: “…The young parents-to-be haven’t faced any pressure to wed, says the boy’s mother, Sherry Johnston, reporting that the two teens planned to marry before it was known she was pregnant.

    “This is just a bonus,” Johnston said. …”

    Hmmmm. The intentional pregnancy meme just got a little boost.

  322. Hey, I’m depressed and broke, and Scott’s done me a great service: made me laugh out loud for the first time in days.

    I don’t feel obliged to respond to each and every complaint you have about Democrats, liberals, leftists, communists, Marxists, and every other group you’re too ignorant to know the difference between.

    This from a guy who not only can’t discern any practical difference between Pat Buchanan and George Bush (either), he spends his time condescending to people who claim there is one. Hilarious.

    Regards,
    Ric

  323. please, they would say that, Sdferr.

  324. Another thing — the lefties are also trying to make hay over the First Dude’s 22-year-old DUI. Except he’s not running for office. And their actual presidential candidate admits to using illegal drugs around the same time.

  325. oh. and there is just no believing “them”.

  326. - Man, I have to believe all the vetting talk has to be really naking Obama nervous.

  327. Hey, remember when the New York Times vetted Vicki Iseman?

    That was awesome!

  328. Another thing — the lefties are also trying to make hay over the First Dude’s 22-year-old DUI. Except he’s not running for office. And their actual presidential candidate admits to using illegal drugs around the same time.

    I predict another panicked Obama Action Alert.

    And by “panicked,” I mean “literally laughing!”

  329. Scottward veritably upends Pubbies old and young:

    The way I see it, only former Presidents are qualified to be Presidents; or maybe I mean Governors, only Governors and former Presidents; or maybe Mayors, only Mayors, Governors, and Presidents (former or otherwise) are qualified to be President. That being the case, VOTE MCCAIN!

    Er, Kueefman, amusingly it’s the left making the initial noise about qualifications, more than a little amusingly because– do I really have to spell it out? So what did you expect the normal people to do, nod approvingly?

    That is all. (I’d put Palin about fiftieth on my personal list of qualified, astute, serious, and mature constitutionalist statesmen candidates. By which measure I’d put Obama — quite objectively now Mr. K. — about five hundredth.)

  330. close tag.

  331. Man, I have to believe all the vetting talk has to be really naking Obama nervous.

    It’s playing out just as Jeff said the other day. ANYTHING they use on Palin will rebound on Obama.

    Experience?
    Identity politics?
    Vetting?
    Reform?

    Even SEK’s lame attempt to link her to the AIP will backfire, if they try to use it on a large scale. I’ll take the AIP over the Weather Underground any day.

  332. while classical liberals and libertarians are gathering some 10,000 strong in a counter-convention

    um, not so much…. yet. maybe. and really though? they can keep the Birchers.

  333. oh, I see I botched my pasting thinger. never mind. sorry.


  334. Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 9/2 @ 4:26 pm #

    thor: Thanks for your input! Now, suck my dick.

    Spies: Still begging and whining to have your dick sucked? Well aren’t you so, so typical a Republican.

    Chapter 3. My Morning After Larry Craig

  335. - Libertarians of a certain bent I can see maybe. After all we’re talking Ron Paul here, so nuts abound. But Classic Liberals?

    – Some one is hitting the Purple label a bit too hard.

  336. In Re: Art.

    Do this in marble.

    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Undine_Rising_from_the_Waters,_back.jpg

    Note that photo is from the back, note that you can see light through the stone drapery. Note that most current art is pure cow droppings.

  337. thor: pucker up, bitch.

    You know that your fate is being debated over in the Pub, right?

    I’m not getting involved, ’cause, frankly, you’re too fucking boring at this stage to make it worth my while.

    Now, go back to picking on a 17 year old kids and Downs babies. They’re a more appropriate challenge for you. I’d keep a sharp eye out for hockey players if I were you, though. Something tells me that young Levi knows all about hooking, tripping, spearing, and butt-ending.

  338. Note that most current art is pure cow droppings.

    Absolutely. There is some good stuff out there, though. I’m rather fond of Paul Harvey (not the radio guy).

  339. Anybody you’ve trolled online nibbled your scrotum lately, thor? I mean, since you asked, you’re up.

  340. Comment by Jeff G. on 9/2 @ 6:04 pm #

    I read the link, Jeff, but to be frank, I’m not inclined to trust what a McCain staffer tells someone who writes for The Corner. I know both parties are liable to be unbiased and all — wait a minute, no I don’t. I think the opposite, in fact. So you’ll excuse me if I wait for independent confirmation.

    That’s convenient: you are not willing to believe those who did the vetting, which in turn allows you to say that she wasn’t vetted.

    How perfectly self-contained!

    By the way, that’s a “senior campaign official.” And an independent confirmation of the vetting would be…what, exactly?

    The National Enquirer broke the story, from what I read. Not a freaking word do I believe from McCain, Palin, the bobbleheads at the RNC talking point memo committee, from you or anyone here. Over at the McCain Bloggette on Meet Moose Mom Palin day, you don’t see mention of what? Anywhere on that day and after do you see mention of the story? Why? We-so-proud-o’er-babies! Yet they didn’t tell the media that mommy and daughter were brewing chill’un at the same time?

    Makes no sense.

    The Enquirer claims they spooked the story and some quotes out of Levi’s parents and at the point htey were headed to print the story Levi’s family contacted Palin who then contacted McCain.

    Sorry, but this elitist-egalitarian-whatever smells a pedigreed skunk in the woodchipper. Something ain’t making sense! Someone ain’t telling the truth!

    Shackle me and hang me long! I beat you to victimhood by two threads. I am. Believe it.

  341. SEK, are you still here?

  342. Sweet Jebus, Mikey, that statue is beautiful. “Sculpture” doesn’t do it justice.

  343. Seconded, Rob.

    Undoubtedly thor owns Rothko prints.

  344. SEK @ #167

    he fact that neither Bush nor Cheney will attend the convention is a sign that ALL IS HEALTHY AND WELL WITHIN THE PARTY.

    And when Jimmy Carter was allowed to show his face but not open his mouth at the Dem “You are all VICTIMS” telethon was …. hmmmm?

    (apologies if someone else already pointed this out, I skipped comments)

  345. Guess not.
    Man, I hate getting “late” to these threads.

  346. I did not know of Paul Harvey, SBP. He has a take on the (I think) beaux arts style, that was used in early twentieth century illustration (I’m thinking Howard Pyle or N.C. Wyeth). I saw the Undine statue at the Ringling Museum in Sarasota when I was visiting the folks about a decade ago. There was a travelling exhibition on the art of the Gilded Age sponsored by the Smithsonian.

    The statue struck me because it was so perfect. I expected Undine to continue walking forward, and it was done in marble, and the light shone through the stone drapery. The level of mastery of a medium was so apparent, that most of the modern stuff I had recently seen at the DIA was the mere mewlings of children.

    Norman Rockwell never made the pretensions that his detractors have fastened on, he did workman-like illustration, and at times he hit the sublime – the “Four Freedoms” I mentioned.

    Anyhow – I was severely off-topic. But that statue of Undine still rocks me. The artist spoke through stone, and I didn’t need a translator to hear him. The work spoke to me, and still does.


  347. Comment by JHoward on 9/2 @ 7:03 pm #

    Anybody you’ve trolled online nibbled your scrotum lately, thor? I mean, since you asked, you’re up.

    Is your nose feeling lonely? Wantin’ my crotch on it?

    I bet there’s lots of whispering in your closet. Lot’s of literary Marxists all kinds of word play. Men of the secret! Existing in silence. Double Dutching in Vienna and Warsaw and secreting off in Berlin. Thar he blows Jacques Cousteau!

  348. So you have, in fact, worked for a living and paid your own bills (outside of academia)?

    NOT RELEVANT. If you want this debate to turn into an identitarian pissing contest, well, this would be an odd place to have one, given that I don’t buy into that bullshit. Nor, if I’m not mistaken — and evidence on this thread to the contrary — is our host.

    Hahahaha!

    Squat Erk Queefman defends not working for a living by immersing himself in academia where he can even avoid thinking for a living.

    In fact, the only think Squat Erk Queefman has ever done for a living is squat and *erk* queef when and where some leftist professor has told him to squat and queef.

    After that kind of abject humiliation and domination, he hates suburban, picket-fence, hockey-mom, breeder America like Gollum hateses the Shire.

  349. Oh…. and another note to Scott

    Unless I’m reading your posts wrong, you are at least a Casey pro-choicer if not a NARAL pro-abortion advocate.

    So, sir, in that case, to not be a hypocrit you should just SHUT THE FUCK UP.

    You don’t have a uterus, you don’t get to opine.

    Your rules, follow ‘em.

  350. Ah, good old, characteristic thor: Ever the contradicktarian, always with the sounding crass and the tinkling thimble, signifying nothing…

  351. Ric Locke will know this one. Here is Phil Foglio’s take on that style, SBP.

    http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071015

  352. thor, so what was Fabuloso Centavali’s best work, anyway?

    And do share the insights on the hubris condition you gained from this most illuminated manuscript, ok?

  353. Out over the ramparts are the measured screams of men. The horses, like the fighting men, look so small but not out of place at all. If you don’t know what to believe, even if you need to forget, remember all you love, take a drink for your bottle and trust death.

    We Charge at First Light!

  354. for = from

    The brigade of the chosen blood!

  355. There’s that loneliness smell again.

  356. You still can’t answer the question can you?

  357. Mikey: Nice! Some of the very best modern art is in comics.

  358. Darleen is now a ragin’ vagina warrior?

    Tis the season where all things end up mixed together in the plum eggnog.

  359. Stokin’ the fire for ya, JG. Makin’ my stone case for art!

  360. So, the lobotomy didn’t take.

  361. Still, I feel much better now.

    How bout you, hammer?

  362. Where’s the Alaskan Joan of Arc midst the sea of white faces and geriatrics at the Xcel center?

    Where all da proud black people at? Didn’t they protest enough? The illegal Mezzicans that IPB snuck over the border, not a mariachi to be found. There’s no talk of human tragedy becoming an incessant necessity! Just flag-wavers singing of sea to shining sea.

    Let’s see what forms lie within that sea of ivory. They’re so there, lying there, laying it down.

    O!

  363. Pie thief.

  364. You might not like Governor Palin now, thor, but I think she’s a great pick. I bet if you knew more about her you’d think she was just really good people. I hope she gets the opportunity to bring the capabilities she’s shown in Alaska to Washington. I think if she gets that opportunity a lot of the personal attacks on her and her family will be seen as ineffective and future female candidates will be evaluated more on merit. That’s progress I think.

  365. I know it sounds gay but I really like women.

  366. Son, put down Mjolnir slowly and step away. This is not the type of conduct I expect from a full-grown Æsir.

  367. ‘feets, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty-dollar thor.

  368. FUCKING DEMOCRATS HAVE RELEASED SARAH PALIN’S social security number!!

    The “Progressives” view conservative/libertarian women the way Islamofascists view apostates.

  369. I mean, it’s like I can’t even look any of the Einherjar in the eye anymore, and your mother doesn’t even poke her head outside of Valaskjaff.

  370. I know it sounds gay but I really like women.

    You’re worth your weight in gold, ‘feet.

  371. Even Sleipnir is ashamed, son! And the shield-maidens, laughing and whispering….

  372. Comment by thor on 9/2 @ 7:55 pm #

    Ah, a misogynist fascist.

    Nice combo you got working there, sparky.

  373. happyfeet is a friggin’ genius.

  374. And what do I tell Sif and the kids?

  375. Fred! has a nice tan. And he’s also going home to a hot woman.

  376. And what do I tell Sif and the kids?

    That thor misread the instructions as; full-grown aes-hat?

  377. You signifying nothing, thor, is something I can live with. Actually, I have.

    Question is how you do. But regardless, concession #3 accepted.

    Olivier deFranco! To light!

  378. From way upthread, and I stopped reading to say this, but;

    Personally, I don’t think Obama ever planned on getting this far — he was probably shooting for building brand recognition with an eye toward a serious run in 2012. When his pre-planned script ran out he simply got stuck.

    I think Obama was supposed to be Hillarys VP. It would have been the most perfect ticket in identity politc’s history. And probably unstoppable.

    Thanks to a media that doesn’t know how to do their jobs any longer, Obamas messiah complex, and stupid rich celebrities, this is going to be a blood bath.

  379. lee,

    D’OH!

    Regards,
    Ric


  380. Comment by JHoward on 9/2 @ 9:05 pm #

    Or maybe this is you, thor:

    http://www.firstthings.com/blog/2008/08/31/the-politics-of-blood/

    To move your false narrative forward requires using nonexistent connections and madcap logic. I think they call that aleatory form.

  381. Your “church lady” stereotype is about 40 years out of date, and wasn’t very accurate even then.

    Au contraire. She may have started up as a caricature of them godbotherers, but it wasn’t long before they used her as a way to skewer Madonna’s sluttiness, for example, in ways they couldn’t in their normal voices. Church Lady got to say things that were unsayable in their little world. So they ran with it.

    And SEK, if you’re still around:

    The reason Palin alienated the whole Alaskan GOP is because they were all CORRUPT (no really: corrupt Republicans) and she exposed their shenanigans and shut them down. Two AK congressmen are in jail because they were taking bribes from the oil companies, whom she also smacked around to the satisfaction of many.

    So that would also explain why the McCain campaign didn’t consult the AK GOP party: you don’t consult a man’s ex-wife as a character witness, and you don’t ask crooks about the cops.

    Capice?

  382. To move your false narrative forward requires using nonexistent connections and madcap logic. I think they call that aleatory form.

    You, of all people, should know.

  383. if I don’t respond to each and every one of them, Darleen whines

    You have my permission to ignore Darleen, Scott. And you needn’t respond to this brief note, as it’s pretty much devoid, like much of my other commentary, of any debating substance. I just wanted to say that I (for one) don’t wish you gone, even though I disagree with much that you’ve said here today. The piling-on thing you should just look at as a single-input, multiple-output system. I’ve run into the exact same thing at Obsidian Wings, only with the ideological orientations reversed. You can deal with it, or decline to engage in it, but for the love of God don’t complain about it. No one is going to appoint themselves your sole opponent.

    Oh, and the vetting thing? As Jeff says, if you don’t believe the people who did the vetting, who else do you have left? What did you expect, phone calls from people announcing that they’re from the McCain campaign, asking for details of this person that they’re considering as a VP nomination? That’s a sure way to keep the lid on things.

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  385. So let me see if I understand SEK’s position:

    If pro-lifers act like he expects them to act, they’re bad people
    If pro-lifers don’t act like he expects them to act, they’re hypocrites.

  386. Back to the OP – re Molinari’s comment: Who said Bristol’s pregnancy was unwanted?

  387. To move your false narrative forward requires using nonexistent connections and madcap logic. I think they call that aleatory form.

    “False narrative”? Madcap + logic = aleatory form? Actually, Einstein, I was making a comparison of form and asking if it fit, as if spelling all that out for a lunkhead like you wouldn’t reduce me to all the brilliance of mud by mere contact with the subject.

    I’d love to see you try and run a unicycle, genius. At any rate, some spectacular irony there, thor, in addition to falling all over your otherwise sterling and masterful vocabulary. Well done, sir!

    I mean, when you yourself are reduced to 100% trolling, why not smear it around? Hell, you can play serious whenever you want and even change definitions at will!

    Next I think I’ll try my hand at fictional fiction.

    Moron.

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  390. light switches should be made from oxygen free copper so that they last longer';’

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