August 6, 2008

Four Months…and this? This?

As I noted before, Eliot F (malaclypse the tertiary) did a fantastic job on the artwork and rebranding for the catchwrestle site.

Now, a little over four months later, the guy working on moving the site over to CMS — who has never returned my phone calls, and will only reply to my emails without actual replying to their content — sent me the following email:

Gents – pls review.

all aspects are integrated as far as we can take it.

Pls do QA and then lemme know who needs a copy of the files.

The link to the “new site,” which I’m supposed to do “QA” on, is here.

Now, I’m not an expert in implementing web site designs. But I do know that it’s very likely that the columns (which, incidentally, we repeatedly tried to tell this guy we no longer were going to be using) aren’t supposed to be smashed together, that the links really should work, that the captions and pictures should line up, that the products should be properly named, that the contact link should be functional, that the copyright notification should be included on all the pages, that the private forum and e-commerce sections should be reachable (this being a business site), that the video clips advertising the products that appeared on the old site would find their way to the new site, that there should be ways to navigate back to the homepage, that spacing should be consistent, and that plans to have a matching blog work best when a blog is actually included in the implementation.

That’s just my quick “QA” — and to tell you the truth, I’m extremely fucking frustrated, not to mention insulted, that anyone would send something like this to me for review.

I mean, if you own a company or two that does this sort of thing, I’d expect that you were at least expert enough to notice the things that a novice like me could spot in the first 2 seconds of looking at the “new” site.

– Which, truth be told, is nothing more than partial contents from the old site dumped, with little care and even less precision, onto a new platform.

The idea was to redo all the copy (which I was to do, but not until a “conference call” that clued me in on what “keywords” needed to be kept — a conference call that never came, despite numerous follow-up attempts on my part). To get rid of columns — noted by the designer. To add a matching blog. To upgrade the ecommerce section, and to make the site more user friendly.

Instead, we waited four months for what was outsourced to India, thrown together with almost no care, and done in, my guess is, two days, tops.

And now I’m supposed to go through and detail all the problems?

I don’t think so — though I invite you all to have some fun playing “spot the amateurish workmanship and total professional disregard,” and to leave your findings in the comments here.

Eliot F and dorkafork have told me that they can probably get the site working the way we wanted it to work, with all the changes and upgrades we discussed (and for which we’ve waited patiently four months). Of course, neither of them are professionals — so I don’t expect it could ever come out as nicely as looks currently.

Unless, you know, they actually give a shit instead of simply pretending, as this company has done.

Posted by Jeff G. @ 3:37pm
463 comments | Trackback

Comments (463)

  1. And yes, Tony is a bit crestfallen today. And I, having promised to help him, feel like it was me who let him down.

    I’d contact this guy to tell him precisely how I feel, but as he’s been dodging my phone calls and emails, what’s the fucking use?

    Pathetic. A real slap in the fucking face.

  2. Oh no! What a mess. I’m so sorry Jeff. I could have done better than this on my own in two days (I’m a freelance designer). I know there’s a long backstory on this . . .

    Well I hope this can be straightened out. the beauty of outsourcing coding to India!

    You should see the LOVELY Flash work my clients get from there (after they decide I’m too pricey for my Flash). I laugh and laugh!

    I’m not laughing at you and your friend tho. This sucks.

  3. It has thus far not troubled me (though I admit to thinking about it) that you hadn’t named this volunteer, Jeff. I figured you had your reasons. Now, though, I really begin to wonder. How come you’re cutting him so much slack in this respect? Was it a contractual agreement?

  4. Ohnoes. Me I get people on the phone and then walk through deliverables with them if I’m expecting changes. Doing it like this guy did is an invitation to not having your work well-received. Especially cause of the obvious stuff. Everything like this though is inescapably iterative. Cause clients are so clienty. But you have to be the sort of person who loves clienty clients, or really, it’s no good.

  5. No. I haven’t named him for diplomatic reasons, Sdferr. Diplomacy. Which, as you know, I’m terribly good at. See, eg., how I handled the whole Karl situation.

    I’m sick to my stomach right now. I feel like I really let down a good friend, and — to boot, I left my site for long stretches to get everything ready behind the scenes for the unveiling of….that.

    Ugh.

  6. As I noted, happyfeet, repeated attempts to call and contact through email were rebuffed and ignored. Attempts by the designer himself to contact this fellow were ignored.

    Hell, last minute WRITTEN INSTRUCTIONS, MADE IN LIGHT OF JUST HOW INACCESSIBLE THIS GUY IS, were ignored.

    But what really irks me is this: is this really “as far as we can take it” with today’s website design and implementation? Because I’m pretty sure I’ve seen better implemented sites.

  7. - Damn sam. These guys are professionals?. The sites just not debugged.

    - Sounds like your source got sidetracked by a better gig and lost interest.

    - My advice. Take someone up on the volunteer work, and move on Jeff. this is just crap. Even a rank beginner doesn’t turn out this sort of half baked garbage.

  8. I’m going to go hit the heavy bag for a bit. I feel insulted. Hell, I feel like somebody took a dump on my waffles.

    This is beyond ludicrous to send to someone.

    Really. If I don’t go hit something right now, I’m afraid I might hit something right now.

    Oh, and I tried calling and emailing this “gent” again: no answer, and thus far, no reply.

  9. I wish I was better at the backend coding and I would have offered some help. But I like doing the pretty stuff.

    What you have is an idiot who figured brushing you off wasn’t illegal so it can’t be immoral. For such ilk “honor” went out the window ’bout the time spitting on returning vets from ‘nam became popular.

  10. oh. Mostly I was just trying to diplomatically say the guy sucks and it’s cause he has no love. You gotta have the love. And also pride. These are key. Also he’s not getting a thank you gift now.

  11. Actually, what you have is my brother.

    When he offered to do this for Jeff, the other side wasn’t ready, but he had lots of time on his hands. When the other side was ready, he was heading up one company and working for another.

    Matt should have stepped out when he became too busy, but he didn’t. He also should have made himself much more available for consultation. He also should have spent more time checking the site out before forwarding it to Jeff.

    I can understand your frustration and your disappointment, Jeff, but you don’t have to be diplomatic with me, and Matt’s not a hothouse plant.

  12. I don’t know who I have to be diplomatic with anymore, Dan. All I know is Matt STILL hasn’t returned a single one of my calls, and that the work put into this does not merit having to wait 4 months. I mean, I admit I guessed things might turn out well when Matt wrote the other day to tell us he was finishing up, even though I hadn’t yet written the new copy, waiting as I was for the “keyword conference call.”

    I don’t even understand what Matt volunteered to do, come to think of it. I mean, this was sent off to India. What exactly was Matt’s function?

    I’d ask him, but I can’t seem to get in touch with him, and he won’t return my calls.

  13. Oh. And I wrote him many emails noting, with increasing frequency, that if he was too busy, we could go elsewhere. In fact, that would have been a relief, because then at least we would have figured something was being done.

    Instead…this.

    You get what you pay for, I guess.

  14. I’m no expert but columns titles “Dear Fisting Enthusiast” and “What Is a Hooker” might be misleading to some people…. Unless I totally misunderstand your purpose for making the site.. if I do then , nevermind..

  15. And the nice thing for Matt, I suppose, is that Dan was willing to step up here and name him. Now the rest of the commenters will refrain from noting just how fucking bush this work is, lest Dan take a walk as well.

    Hoo-rah!

  16. Shut up, Jake.

  17. Well, its on stylesheets so it may get fixed fairly quick.

    Is this the live site? What kind of hits is it getting, if so? Only inbounds from here isn’t so bad, but it does need to be cleaned up quick and the links made live for a start.

  18. For the record, I will accept part of the blame. I am proud of the design work I did, but as Dan indicates, I took a little over a month to get the design finished and carved up into HTML. In my defense, I’m really very meticulous (punctilious even) with my design. I did a good deal of agonizing over the design work and even called Matt at one point to apologize to him that it wasn’t ready yet. Inasmuch as that made it difficult for him to move it forward, I am sincerely sorry.

    I don’t wish to begrudge Jeff and Tony their ire at all. I completely understand it. I just wish to be as forthright as possible about my culpability. That said, I’m eager to get this solved and as I have a fair amount of experience with implementation (before I got so heavily involved in marketing strategy I used to call myself a web generalist), I’m eager to make good on this.

  19. As I say, I think you’ve got every reason to be pissed. For his part, I think that he didn’t want to be seen as a beer talker. For that matter, I’ve only been able to get ahold of him by phone once in the past month.

    Just continue telling the truth, as you’ve always done, Jeff. I’d be pissed, too. But after he’s gotten this straightened out, and I think he’ll do so quickly, I hope all will be mended.

  20. I feel a fight coming. Happyfeet, can you come sit by me?

  21. I’m not fighting, Carin. Jeff’s right to be unhappy about it. Matt can take care of himself.

  22. I think he’s lost Tony’s trust entirely, Dan.

    Eliot — designing and rebranding an entire site, from concept to completion, is time consuming. A month was not at all unwarranted — particularly when the design is so well done (and let’s not forget, you did the DVD case art and disc art, as well).

    Whereas 3 months to give two days worth of shit work? This has cost Tony business, and me a lot of time (and probably more than a few readers).

  23. Dan

    As a good brother, you need to cuff Matt a bit…

    family honor and all..

  24. Yes, Carin. We can sit together. Quietly. I think Matt is a nice guy and I wish I hadn’t said anything especially about the sucking. I think… Matt’s the brother we know here right? He is good people. You know what else is good is red velvet cake. I really like it a lot.

  25. Don’t sweat what you said. Any of you.

  26. See? Let’s walk back that stuff about the sucky work now that we know it’s Dan’s brother. Because it’s gauche to insult good people.

    And really, he produced this pile of suck as a favor.

    How ungrateful you are!

  27. Whatever. Fuck it. What’s four months, anyway?

  28. Okay, I’ll say it. It’s crap. Complete crap. I would be embarrassed to show this to anyone even if I had done it for free.

  29. Well, I’ll say that the artwork is quite nice. The retro look and the striped background look very good. Easy on the eyes and stuff.

    And the Lucky 13 page with the two text columns doesn’t look all bad, but if the left column wraps onto the right, then yeah, merge it into one column.

    Do I find myself dosing or in need of a nap in the afternoon?

    Um, is that “dosing” or “dozing,” because there’s quite a difference. The latter could indicate sleep apnea, whereas the former is a whole different kettle of cod.

  30. Evidently, it’s now being “re-uploaded.” Maybe the real site will magically appear. I have goosebumps!

  31. I agree that the artwork is okay, and there are the makings of a site here, but you have to get the formatting correct or no one will stay longer than a few seconds.

  32. I pronounce this fail week, but I’m not telling mine.

  33. Let us know anything ordinary folks with cobwebs and a six-year-old pack of mickey-mouse bandaids in their skill drawers can do.

  34. The two columns running together can be fixed with a single CSS change. That’s not too bad. Amateurish to let it get to “QA” like that.

  35. I can’t really appreciate the suckitude from this here mobile device, but this is why you should never trust anyone born after 1964 or so. But seriously, it’s damned tough to get good work done pro bono (even when it’s a tax deductible donation). Been there, done that, learned to bite the bullet and write the check.

    I sincerely hope Eliot can unfuck this for you in short order.

  36. Oh, and this wedged behind the drawer.

  37. Been there, done that, learned to bite the bullet and write the check.

    You already did. I’ve been gone for four months now, and this site has taken the hit for it.

    So in a way, everybody wrote that check.

    Of course, had not promises been made, we would have had the site done professionally and paid for it. It would have prevented us from doing some of the other stuff we’ve done behind the scenes, from a budget perspective, but at least it would have been done.

  38. Well I just… I’m not in an insulty place today. And also it’s Dan’s brother. And insulting can a lot preclude a win-win resolution. Cause of the feelings. But also though this is business, so feelings are sort of not paramount, but still. I saved you some cake.

  39. JeffG

    I stand by my first comment before I knew it was Matt.

    He shirked his promise, he besmirched his honor. There is major groveling to be performed.

    BTW, I do not have any access to the site’s stats, but unless tecnorati is pure shit PW has moved from the rank of just over 5,000 to 3,500.

  40. Amazon won’t the fark let you mail anybody limoncello. Damn prohibition.

  41. argh… technorati

  42. The text problems here are obvious and it is hard to understand how something like that could ever be forwarded for bugs. I mean, damn.

    However, I sort of like the retro feel.

  43. Well I just… I’m not in an insulty place today. And also it’s Dan’s brother. And insulting can a lot preclude a win-win resolution. Cause of the feelings. But also though this is business, so feelings are sort of not paramount, but still. I saved you some cake.

    Yeah. The four months that I put my life on hold and my friend put his business on hold shouldn’t get in the way of a good “let’s all get along” moment. After all, without that, the site might really suffer.

  44. Kirk –

    The retro feel we designed has only been superficially implemented in the incarnation. We had plans to filter and “age” the photos; to use pull quotes, to change the copy altogether. To add a matching blog. To skin the private forum and the ecommerce side with the same feel. To streamline navigation. To introduce flash video.

    Instead, as someone wrote me via email, “I gotta say, these guys, whoever they are, gave you basically a stock joomla package with a little (a little) flair.”

    And it only took four months!

  45. I can’t talk about this anymore. I’ve gone from screamingly angry to simply deflated.

    Seriously. I was supposed to go to class tonight, but I think I’m just going to stay home and drink, then go to bed early.

    With every passing day I become more and more like Gulliver. Give me a stable and some horses.

  46. JeffG

    Put me on your list of volunteers even if my skills at this point are thin. I have dreamweaver and flash on my puter and I CAN do some flash

    http://www.ironbellgym.com/

  47. - Sarah – stop teasing, remember feets is sitting right next to you and we have to remember the bunnies at all times. The turtles I’m not so sure about. But the bunnies, absolutely.

  48. You can’t drive anywhere near Hardscrabble Road w/o running into woodchucks.
    Oh yeah, I know me some Monkton and environs.
    Woodchucks I sez.

  49. My cat dragged in a bunny this morning and ate its brain. It’s all over for bunnies.

  50. I wish to express my support, such as it is, though.

  51. Hardscrabble Road is lots of fun in the winter.

    I’m sure the residents can’t wait till they’ve all got Priuses.

  52. “I’m sure the residents can’t wait till they’ve all got Priuses.”

    - Has that replaced psoriasis as the new yuppy designer ailment?

  53. Two days ago, my cat left me a female house finch on my bedroom floor, in a corner where I could easily have missed it.

    Last summer, I suddenly had a couple dozen flies in the kitchen. Putting two and two together, I looked around and found the feathery corpse, then when I picked it up, found a few dozen empty maggot casings under the well-picked-over skeleton.

    Mystery solved.

  54. Your cat was just paying you a tribute of ritual sacrifice.

  55. On the info page, the one that has EVOLUTION OF CATCH WRESTLING and other information, if you hold down the left mouse button all the black text turns blue.

    I hope this all works out as the site you showed in the last post had very nice artwork and all. It made me want to find out more about Catch though I’m way too old to start some MA.

  56. Well, I’m still gonna sit next to Happyfeet. I can’t help (skillset being commenting and gardening, as I mentioned before) and I’m really bad at criticizing. No, I suck at it. That’s why I stay home with my kids instead of working out in the real world.

    But, if I COULD have helped, I would have been there for ya Jeff. I would have.

  57. Grilling half a chicken not twenty minutes ago I ran into the same Blue-bottlefly phenomenon outdoors in the carporch, but I’ll be damned if I’m crawling up under the house to find out what’s dead, dicentra. I’ll just live with stench for a few days. It’s usually not too bad.

    But nothing could beat the two opossum juveniles that crawled down the dryer ventpipe and wandered into the dryer itself to be ground up in the fan while we were out of the house. Four days later, I got the job of cleaning them out. Feh.

  58. But you’re right this is a mess. I have nothing constructive to add either. I let my web skills languish after one of my managers at another job told me, he said happyfeet, those who can, do. By way of explaining how he didn’t want to learn how I did my stuff even though there was no backup for my job and I was looking around. I took that to heart and stopped being so gratuitous about skills. That was wise in that uber corporate environment, not so smart in real life.

  59. One of these fine summer mornings, I should snap a photo of the front walk when I run down fo the paper.
    Spines, assorted.
    Little things with feet but no heads. Litte heads neatly arrayed in rows.
    Occasionally an intact prize is daintily arranged on the doormat. These are presents. If cats could charge it at Pinkie’s Papers, they would be wrapped in handmade papers and tied up in grosgrain.

  60. But, Jeff, if you EVER need some landscaping … I’m the gal. Shit, I’d almost pay someone to let me do their yard if they were paying for the materials.

  61. That anthrax guy was a fucking sociopathic nutter. SarahW’s cat made me think of that.

  62. Sarah, for while we had a serious situation with endangered small rodents … I can’t recall the name at the moment. But they had little small noses, and every day their body parts awaited me.

  63. Last week, I got a bat.

  64. Had a cat (her name was Mike) that dragged a live pigeon through the deck doors into the bedroom and under the bed while girlfriend and I were sleeping. Dreaming in fact. The powerful beating of that pigeon’s wings on the floor, whaop-whaop-whaop-whaop, got incorporated into my dream as a UH-1H landing on my head. Pretty startling to have a helicopter land on your head out of the blue like that. Damn cat.

    I fought with her in the basement over a squirrel one day too. She got the squirrel, I got the squirrel’s tail.

  65. This is why my cat stays indoors.

  66. “Last week, I got a bat.”

    In the 90s I lived way out in the sticks in a small house with two cats. Around 4 am I was awakened by cat commotion. A bat had gotten in the house and even though it was pitch black the cats were trying to jump up and catch the bat. They finally did and I got my present the next morning. Exciting but better than the times I had to catch them in the house by myself.

  67. SarahW

    When I had outdoor cats, I would get all sorts of presents..front door and back.

    But I now live too close to where coyotes roam and now I have two indoor kitties who are thrilled to death to track and play with the occassional moth or cricket that gets into the house.

  68. At that one company one of the managers, her cat was killed by a coyote. She didn’t come in that day. The next day she came in late with a scarf on her head and big dark sunglasses and wearing a coat looking just like Jackie O. It was bizarre. A lot of people made sympathetic noises at her even though she was not a nice person at all, but I didn’t.

  69. I keep refreshing hoping for an update that everything was made right, but I guess that will take some time. I have faith though.

  70. Okay, Jeffery:

    Lemme try this one more time.

    It seems to me a few days ago there was a similar post concerning the very websiteyou write about in which I offered to host the site. I may have answered the call then; it seemed to me as though I did but I may have been mistaken or mis-posted.

    Anyway, what I can offer:

    Within 24 hours you are live on a dedicated server for $60 a month. I will work with you and/or your associate for six months making changes and developing the site to where you want it.

    However I will need $140 up front for the first month and setup. I know this is an impediment, but that is the deal. I bill monthly and accept checks only.

    I have worked on a number of other sites, my own included, and am working on toher sites as well, mainly programming in perl. I have good references with regard to my unix skills as well as web hosting.

    I help Fred at http://www.rantburg.com with their website at the server level from time to time with security stuff mostly.

    I tried doing this full-time two years ago, but now do this part-time: develop websites for folks. I am currently working on a commercial website as an investment which will go live very soon, I hope.

    I wanted to make this same deal for your associates on PW, but you never replied to my email, so I figured you weren’t interested.

    You can contact me at expedite at procyondata.com

    or

    You can go to procyondata.com contact page and call me on my cell.

    We can do this.

  71. Thanks but no thanks, badanov.

  72. Sorry I can’t be of any help. I’d probably produce something like this, if I even tried to learn how.

  73. OK, having had a chance to look at this on a real screen, it blows pretty hard.

    all aspects are integrated as far as we can take it.

    Wow. You kinda suck at this then. I could probably have done that and I really suck at this, though I don’t do it for a living.

    Jeff, re #36, I did two non-profit sites over last year from about the same place you are in the process. Long story short, the people I paid produced for me. The people who were working for free (on one project) weren’t what you might call productive, and they wound up replaced by people who got paid. I was ready to shoot someone by that point. The other project was done for short money by a good, solid friend with a direct connection to the cause. It got done, but like molasses, and it still isn’t what it should be. Me, I’ve pretty much had it with both entities. If I ever have to touch such a project again, the first thing I’m going to do is hire somebody I can fire if they’re not getting it done.

  74. A couple of other things…malaclypse the tertiary is the silver lining in this cloud. People suck, but not that one. And I’m not the least bit surprised. That’s a stand up guy on the intertubes and off. the other thing is that pw is one of the big reasons I haven’t ripped big clumps of hair out of my head.

    /off to the tip jar

  75. - In the mean time, cats, bats, bunnies, and all manner of creepy crawly things aside, is it getting fixed?

  76. What the hell is going on here Jeff? Is this some kind of perverse fundraiser? If so, you have jumped both the shark and the orca.

  77. Why is this internet crap so mysterious and exclusive? Surely in 2 y3ars, this will be sine qua non for my kid. Not me, though.

  78. Last Friday night, I incurred a semi-serious wound to the inside of my left forearm while herding cats. No, seriously. I had been finding poo deposits in the living room again in the usual hiding places, and a bit more barf than usual, so naturally, I thought it was the gray kitty telling me that she wanted to use the litterbox inside again. (I make her go outside during the summer.)

    I was on the couch, watching a movie after midnight, when lo, a cat crept out from behind the printer stand. It was a cat I’d recently seen hanging around outside and even surprised inside. I tried to chase it (as did my other kitties), but to no avail, it hunkered down behind the printer stand (and bookshelf and computer desk), so I decided to open the front door so that it could wander out when it cared to.

    But it didn’t. So after the movie, I tried to scare it out, and it ended up running into the back room and into all kinds of unaccessible places.

    I opened the back door, but it wouldn’t head that way.

    I filled a squirt bottle and set it on stun. I zapped it a few times, and he ran off, sure enough, but never toward the doors.

    I tried to block off his avenues of escape with the enormous box of 30% black nylon shade cloth that is not what I ordered but is too big to send back with any celerity. He still wouldn’t dash outside, even when he had the choice of the door, the squirt gun, and my hissing black tomcat.

    At one point, he got back behind the printer stand and I sat there and squirted him over and over, and he didn’t budge, even as he hissed all his catty curses at me. For whatever catty reason, he wasn’t going to leave the house. Mind you, the thing was far from skinny and destitute. He was fat and healthy (and quite pretty: a faint gray tiger stripe with a bit of siamese). So I don’t think he was facing starvation by leaving my place.

    Finally, after I had shut all the bedroom and bathroom doors, I cornered him at the end of the hall and grabbed him by the back skin. He was sopping wet and pissed as hell, and I held onto his skin as I hurried toward the back door. Enraged, he “exploded,” suddenly twisting in all directions the way cats do, and my forearm received three good scratches from the back feet, which also ended up bruising a little while later.

    I dropped him then, and he scampered past the open back door and behind the seed starter. This time I grabbed him good with both hands and tossed him out the door and locked it behind him. (This was 3am.)

    He doesn’t have a magnetic collar, so he couldn’t have got in through the cat door (or out to use the toilet, hence the excrement in the living room). Probably he snuck in on Wednesday or Thursday, while I worked in the garden for a bit before work. I would have left the back door open, getting in was easy, and he stayed concealed while I was home until Friday night.

    Why he wanted to stay inside, with two cats who hated his guts (but who didn’t have the courage to chase him out) and a crazy squirt-gun-carrying hooman is beyond me. I’ve surprised cats inside the house before, but they always tore outside as fast as they could. It never occurred to me that a cat would come in and STAY in.

    I guess that explains some of the singing my black cat was doing some nights. He often comes into the bedroom late at night, singing as if he’d caught something (and twice last week he had). I guess I need a better catty-to-hooman translator.

  79. Well, the compressed columns can be fixed by adjusting the cellpadding and/or cellspacing attributes on the table containing them. One or the other can be zero, but never both. If both are zero, you get … well, that.

    I generally opt for cellpadding values of 4 or 6 at a minimum (depending on text size, column width and available page space) and don’t really do anything with cellspacing.

  80. There aren’t supposed to be columns. This was a redesign, not a “let’s dump the old site on top of a new platform with a different bit of artwork.” Hell, that could have been done in a day, once the artwork was finished.

    And it was. Done in a day. Or two. With 3 months in between where not a thing was done.

    Malaclypse has been great. He and I came up with a concept for the DVD wraps and the branding, and he’s pulled it off beautifully.

    As to you, cynn — what the fuck are you talking about? Fundraiser? I’ve spent the last nearly 8 months helping out a friend of mine, and I haven’t asked for a dime. In that time, we’ve completely re-branded his site; broken through an internet libel campaign against him; come up with interactive features for the instructor program and the paid forum that, to my knowledge, are being used no where else; taken his inventory and made it look professional and polished; come up with several new instructional series; devised an entirely new marketing strategy — and all this while I was training on average 2-4 hours a day, taking care of my son, and being a good husband to my wife.

    I have lost readership, which means losing what little revenue this site generates, and I did so willingly because I made a promise to a friend who needed my help in the worst way. Which is precisely why after 4 months I was so angry, frustrated, and finally, deflated when I saw this garbage this afternoon.

    Then, to add insult to injury, I’m asked to “QA” the fucking wreck — when it is quite clear nobody there bothered to look at it first. At least, nobody who speaks English, or knows what a column looks like.

    I have been killing myself behind the scenes, often putting in 14-15 hours of work daily for no pay. Perverse fundraiser? No.

    So don’t worry. The site is still up, and you can still ramble on here in the ether, free of charge.

  81. With every passing day I become more and more like Gulliver. Give me a stable and some horses.

    Heh. I’ve lost a number of thousands to “web designers” who’ve promised the world and delivered lies. In my humble experience this is common — with a certain, not inconsequential segment of the field, perhaps some sort of default you need to learn the lingo and hidden terms to get around.

    (It took years, but I currently have a great team who makes up for it by being cheap, as we used to say. Oh, and communicative, usually within the same day, which is a real boon.)

    So you’re not alone, Jeff, for whatever that means to you at this point. The bullshit ye have with thee always, etc.

    Makes me want to have folks take care of all my needs, what with as motivated as they are to consistently do the right thing when taking my money. Oops, didn’t mean to go all political there. Kinda.

  82. Matt wrote me earlier and told me that the site was “re-uploading.” That was, like, 7 hours ago. Anybody see a difference?

    Me neither.

  83. If re-uploading fixes design formatting, he’s not an IT wizard, he’s a wizard.

  84. Jeff, your questions in the thread header is why I work with hardware. Many problems I solve, but motherboards don’t ask about the design aesthetics.

    If you need a dedicated server, cheap, let me know.

  85. I would not hesitate to describe the design portion of the project as having had sex with an agglomeration generally known as a “cluster.” I have taken money for site design, back when nobody knew any better (least of all me) but what I know about website design elements these days doesn’t even really quite qualify me to design my own site for free.

    Fortunately, in that instance the client, being exactly as clueless as the designer, doesn’t even know that I should have me arrested and prosecuted for fraud.

  86. thor, you do PCBs?

    Ain’t youse guys at the bottom of the geek heap? Right after Star Trek slash fanfic writers, that is.

  87. just FTR, I cranked out a spooky track Sunday afternoon, but RTO hasn’t delivered on the sniper fire and we haven’t yet come to an agreement over whether the visual should be cats or people.

    my kittehs think I starve them(even though they came in at 14 and 18 pounds yesterday at the vet’s) so they never leave me any tasty lizard bits

  88. Jeff,

    I came right to the bottom, didn’t read any comments at all, because here is my answer to your problem.

    FUCK THEM!

    I know this doesn’t make you feel any better, but it made me feel really good.

    I am so sick of (I was going to say dot heads, but it is forbidden in this new millennium) people who I have no idea what they are saying to me, and make strange noises when I ask them a question.

    And you have my permission to forward this comment to them – if you know how to translate it into Hindu.

    “Oh, yes. Slurpy number one vehicle!”

  89. I had a good friend in grad school who was Indian. Smart. Intellectually curious.

    In short, I doubt the problem was with the Indian. After all, the fact that they might not speak English is roughly equivalent to the fact that most Americans can’t speak Hindi.

    – Or even English, come to think of it.

  90. Jeff – you are being a complete ass about this. Yes, it appears there have been issues regarding pushing the site “live”. And those will be remedied. As for content, you interactive neophyte, since the site is now on a CMS-platform, you can change it on-the-fly as needed. As for the key word analysis and application of tags and such, you complete fuck-monkey, those too will be applied when the site magically appears… because a site is like a toaster… you just pull it out of the box and plug it in.

    As for the four months… hmmm… without pointing any fingers, as I too think the design is beautiful (especially for the price you paid for it), it did in fact take much longer than I had anticipated… though I did not throw a mantrum about it. And, yes, did it throw off how quickly we could turn this site? Yes, it did. So, while I was more idle waiting to dig into to project managing the shit out of it, lo and behold I got busy some months into waiting. In fact, really fucking busy. Did I skin Eliot alive for being so really fucking busy feeding his family even though I knew it was compromising my ability to focus as I needed to on this project? No. Why? Because I don’t roll like that.

    We’ll get the site to where it needs to be. As for a client you are not. And if you were, the production crew would talk about you and mock you as they took their smoke breaks.

    You are being a complete dick-bag about this. And if you expect to be star-fucked by me in any manner, you will be waiting a very long time.

    Amount of respect lost by Enoch_Root for the ingrate Jeff, our savior = a lot.

    Now go work at some university or .org, you prick. Talent like yours doesn’t belong in the real world where doers and pay-check earners actually have to answer to paying clients. Better yet, go to Ponderosa, you classless fuck, and complain to management about having to wait in line.

    I’ll give you your wrestling site when it’s good and ready and you can shove it up your ass. Because you are a big heaping pile of shit as a client.

    How’s that?

  91. Oh, and grow up. You are getting mighty whiny… and that’s no way to raise a child. And it’s unbecoming.

  92. - Good load people. Its a freeking web site, not a Batman movie. Get a fucking grip.

  93. no, bbh, it’s a toaster – you pull it out of the box and plug it in is all. but while it’s being plugged in, you swing it real hard at the person who gifted it to you, hitting them in the head with the really sharp portion and bitching about how you think it doesn’t work… well, because you have no idea how to build one yourself.

  94. I wish I had time to help you on this, but with a house closing (in 2 weeks) and a move to Hawaii (in less than 2 months), I can offer only the minimum amount of assistance. If you want to give my email addy to Eliot F and dorkafork please do so Jeff, and perhaps I can help them with some small parts of it. I can’t access that email from here, so I won’t be able to respond until this evening, but will include a phone number when I do.

    The columns should be pretty easy to fix with a couple float divs, likely in a matter of hours if not minutes. For the record, here’s my favorite part:

    var path = ‘hr’ + ‘ef’ + ‘=’;

    which of course resolves to a variable being equal to ‘href=’, something that there is no reason for a variable to hold, even more so if you see how it is used just a few lines later.

  95. No, you expect a toaster to work. But a toaster, even if it is a solicited gift, is expected to work, or it is a small metallic piece of shit.

  96. Root- first of all it was your brother who outed you, be pissed at him, second of all, did you or did you not say you could do this?

    Then shut the fuck up and make good on your word.

  97. BMoe – it is a work in progress is my point.

    here let me show you this half-built jungle-gym

    odd: the monkey bars dont seem to work. what gives?

  98. it is 8am CST – and he is sleeping.

  99. I applaud your commitment to making this right I think. I knew you would. And lo it came to pass that the site of the wrassles of catch was healed, and many looked upon it, and it was good. I have faith.

  100. Actually, it’s 7:00 AM MST (Denver) so I would imagine breakfast and an early morning workout.

    For me, Vacation! time.

    The water calls

  101. - happy – it ain’t fixed ’til the fat columns sing. All else is jawjacking. Oooorah, Sempre fi

  102. This is all very unfortunate. I reiterate my sincerest apology to Jeff, Matt and most of all Tony for the role I’ve played in making this a difficult project. That role involves taking a good long time to complete the design for the site; and that’s after having taken a good long time to craft a new logo. I don’t see how I can profitably contribute to the conversation here other than to apologize. I’ll do whatever I can to make it right.

  103. As for a client you are not. And if you were, the production crew would talk about you and mock you as they took their smoke breaks.

    Bullshit, E_R.

    If what’s been presented here bears any reasonable relationship to what actually happened, it’s pretty clear who’s showing class, and it ain’t you. Once you agreed to do the job, Jeff became a client. Form of compensation, if any, is irrelevant. Do, or do not, and show what your word’s worth.

    Jeff is being a good deal more conciliatory. He’s repeatedly said that he knew and accepted that his project would take a back seat to better-paying (to you) work. But God damnit, you could at least have dropped an email telling him there’d be a delay, or that you couldn’t do it, and spreading gratuitous insults around does not compensate, no matter what your third-grade playmates said.

    Regards,
    Ric

  104. Ric – go fuck yourself. Jeff doesnt need you to stick up for him. And I owe you no explanation other than the one I have given.

    i stand by my comment that he is acting like a whiny bitch.

    again, you may star-fuck. I will not. And once the work-in-process is done, I will expect a full retraction and a bunch of apologies from star-fuckers like you.

  105. Half built does not equal ‘ready for QA’ or ‘all aspects are integrated as far as we can take it.’ As toasters go, I’m sure this one would make great bread. And you called it all but finished. Is it, or is it half built?

    Someone is taking ownership of their work, and it ain’t you.

  106. Bye dave! Come back sometime when you can’t stay so long.

  107. - Root. You may be embarrassed because you bit off more than you could chew, that much I could understand. But you’re not helping yourself.

    - Your word is your bond, and when you come up short you suck it up and do the best you can, you don’t lash out. Thats infantile like Ric says.

    - If you try to turn a job not completed into an ego polishing contest, you’ll lose a lot more than a bit of face.

    - Hole, shovel, ect.

    - Just make it right. Thats the only stand up thing to do.

  108. Yes, Matt called here this morning at a 6:45 or thereabouts. Woke up my son.

    Which means now I’m up and treated to emails like this one:

    Dan & Jeff –

    on a personal note, this was a poor way to handle this situation.

    there was an issue with the push to the site. we will reinstall this morning.

    now, what I get to deal with is defending for my partner why I agreed to do this site at all.

    I will review with him that at the time I signed on to do it, I had some time to focus on it. and Jeff has forgotten how long we waited and waited for the graphic elements to be done. He also seems to have forgotten the key word analysis I did which will be applied, the initial info architecture which I also did which was summarily ignored and not followed.

    And I am busy, you fucks… so busy. Busier than I have ever been.

    Point is this: I am not your punching-bag, Jeff. if you are an unhappy soul, that’s between you and someone bigger than me. But to do what you have done on your site is just fucked. Plain and simple: fucked.

    We’ll give you your site. And I will work in good faith to do the best I can, given the amount of energy I have to give to it.

    But after that, I believe I will be happy nary to speak with you again. And that is a shame.

    If you knew me, Jeff, you would realize you are pissing on a good tree. And you would feel shame for it. And you would lament behaving so badly.

    You have plenty of enemies, Jeff. Dont go looking to make allies your enemies too.

    And a personal note for you because I fear no one else will hazard to say it to you: grow up.

    Matt

    The REAL story is I have put no pressure on Mr Collins. Neither Tony or I ever tried to rush him. In fact, all emails I sent, up until the last few days, were inquiries into how I could help keep the project moving.

    I was told by Matt he would call one weekend. I waited around at home. No call.

    I was told he was doing a keyword analysis — something he now boasts of here — which would then allow me to rewrite all the copy. But I wasn’t to write the copy until we had a conference call covering that keyword analysis.

    That call never came.

    Emails went unanswered. Repeatedly. A business site worked on for four months — only 1 of which it took to get all the design work done — was being implemented without the implementer ever once inquiring about the password information necessary for accessing the forum, the e-commerce site, etc.

    Hell, I even had to ask Matt to add Tony to his cc:s here recently, because he was more concerned, evidently, with making sure Dan got the scant few emails he sent than he was about keeping the owner of the site in the loop.

    Whiny? I have been anything BUT.

    I didn’t beg Matt Collins to join the project. In fact, we had a number of other volunteers, but went with Matt because he said the right things and made the right promises.

    When it became clear he had found other tasks to occupy his time I asked him on several occasions if he was too busy to continue, because if he was, we would go another direction. And to that we got either no response, or assurances that he would make time.

    Now, I’m supposed to be grateful…for what, exactly? The he deigned, at the last minute, and lieu of responses to any of our concerns, any of our phone calls, and any of our emails, to send us shit he would never EVER send to someone who was paying him? And then expect us to shut up and be happy about it, because to do otherwise is looking a gift horse in the mouth?

    Fuck that. Fuck him. Fuck off.

    Eliot and Tony both know that I’ve followed up with Matt innumerable times asking what I could do to help. Now, I find out (a prideful slip on his part, I guess) that this keyword analysis he bragged about has been done, meaning I could have rewriting the copy over the last several months had he just taken the time to phone me as promised.

    And please: when a brusque email says that the site has been implemented as far as Matt’s people can take it, and that brusque email is accompanied by a link to something that has clearly not been LOOKED AT with directions that we take time to QA it — particularly after Matt failed to respond to our concerns about problems with the site map, etc — well, then he’s just being ridiculous with his wounded giver act.

    I have been accommodating all throughout this process. And as Eliot will tell you, I have been helpful, available, and persistent in trying to move this thing forward, because my friend’s livelihood is at stake here.

    To now be told that I’m “pissing on a good tree” and that I should feel shame for it is, not to put too fine a point on it, asinine.

    Matt’s company would have received full and complete praise from both my site and Tony’s — a not inconsiderable amount of free publicity; instead of being contrite for what are obvious failures of professionalism, courtesy, and workmanship on his part, he has decided to come out swinging — even though it was his brother who identified him (after I had decided not to do so).

    Which is all fine and good. But if there’s any “whining” going on here, it’s on the part of a guy whose company dropped the ball. And a facile barbed tongue won’t hide that fact from those who know or care.

    As for how I’m raising my son — now THERE’S a good tree. So bringing him into this conversation is nothing short of infuriating. So yeah, we may nary speak again in the future. But that’s not a shame at all. Because the end result of such a conversation would likely not be pretty.

  109. Another Matt email:

    Jeff –

    here are your admin credentials to modify content as needed on the new site.

    [redacted]

    log in, bang around, and get to know the admin area, as this will be where you will be required to modify the copy throughout the site.

    if you feel in over your head, dont hesitate to let me know. but also make sure to put some effort into understanding the relationship between what you see in the back end admin and what is reflected on the front-end site before you ask any unnecessary questions. Dont have time to hand-hold, so do your due diligence.

    Matt

    Don’t have time to hand-hold? Then you don’t have time to take on projects. After all, if I knew this stuff, I’d have done it myself, right?

    Jesus, what a fucking tool. It’s like he’s a god complex come to life, complete with robes and staff. And not one of them benevolent Christian Gods, either. No. He’s hardcore OT.

  110. Here’s an email he sent to Tony, which I can tell you right now is a mistake:

    Take a seat big guy. Please just fucking relax.

    Seriously, will take about one more email like this to push me over the edge.

    this is a CMS based system and you will have full access, which I am granting now to layout the main body content as you see fit.

    now fucking sit down and await my emails.

    Matt

    This is that “good tree.” No communication for months, and now it’s “sit down, shut up, and await what I tell you.”

    I don’t think Tony will look kindly on such communiques.

  111. And I am busy, you fucks… so busy. Busier than I have ever been.

    I doubt that is going to be a long term problem if you remain self-employed.

  112. More:

    ok – Tony

    [redacted]

    pages are being added, such as Who’s Tony.

    that would be agreat place to start editing and getting to know the administrative aspect of the site.

    again, spend some time banging around in there without breaking shit, pls. Also, it is your responsibility to do some self-education relating to how and why the shit works the way it does. if you have any questions or get stuck, let me know.

    otherwise, there is plenty for you and Jeff to do relating to modifying copy and content layout to keep you off of my back for today.

    now I am pissed off, so I will end the niceties.

  113. oh, and for the record and to put the balance back in the universe….

    go fuck yourselves.

    ok, I am mad as hell too.

    working, now leave me alone while I proj manage the shit out of this site.

    currently fucking off

    Matt

    Yes, happyfeet. Look at him working to make it all better!

  114. More:

    then, you can modify the cunt out of it as you see fit.

    I will be working on the following over the course of the next couple mornings.

    1) image gallery
    2) new blog, dressed up in sexy Eliot garb
    3) event calendaring

    then, you can shove it up your ass as I tackle other aspects, you fucking cunts (except Eliot… and mainly Jeff “the whiny bitch” Goldstein… who must’ve been beaten up a lot as a kid!)

    Other aspects/modules will include, you fuckers:

    1) ability to add video clips, etc
    2) if I feel nice, a new shopping cart that doesnt suck like the current pile of shit

    now, if you behave, I will move forward with these items… if you do not behave, you cunts, I will STILL include these things.

    now, I am going to put in my 13 hours of work at my day job, where people pay me for this shit.

    Cunt off until tonight or tomorrow, you fuck-sticks. and by the time I am done with you, you’ll wish you never met me… while concurrently thanking me and asking me to stick it up your ass further.

    Matt

  115. And now the threats start coming in:

    yi – now you have a whole community of novices “QAing” the site. Good one, you fuck.

    your mess… you clean it up, you cunt. And fast… or this shit goes bye-bye and you can kiss the “shitty” work in progress goodbye. I’ll nuke it back to the fucking stoneage and seo the shit out of Tony so that the first ten results link to gay porn.

    JK…. sort of… it would take more abuse for me to get that pissed. then, we will see who is the master interactive mother-fucker. and I know this: it aint you.

    This is a threat to Tony’s business, as I see it. Implied, but there.

    If you value your life, Matt, you won’t mess with someone’s livelihood — especially not Tony’s. There isn’t a gun you have that’s big enough, trust me.

  116. Remind me never to get my own blog.

  117. - Heres a suggestion that should piss both of you off. How ’bout using all this time and energy, instead of wasting such on rapacious emails and squabbling, to getting the site fixed. There will be ample time for recriminations later.

    - Just possibly Tony would be greatly appreciative.

    - You think?

  118. Has anyone ever seen Matt and thor in the same room together?

  119. Jeff – in full matrum mode.

    looking good slick

  120. Woke your son? Waaaaaaahhhhhhh

  121. No, E_R, you don’t owe me anything. But this is a “weblog” or “blog”, remember? People express opinions here. You did, and I responded. It happens.

    Both of you are acting foolishly and have been from the beginning — Jeff for asking for the deal as much as you for accepting it. If there’s a more efficient recipe for generating long-term hard feelings, I certainly don’t care to learn it. But once the deal has been made and compensation agreed on, even if said compensation is nonexistent, both sides owe performance and due diligence; it’s fundamental to the concept of “contract”, which in turn is fundamental to Western civilization.

    You could have backed out, and IMO you should have — but the minimum due diligence you owed was to notify Jeff of that in a timely manner so he could make other arrangements, including the possibility of offering you money to move the project up the priority queue. Communication nowadays is so nearly effortless — you don’t even have to have a goose, much less rob it for quills — that failure to notify or to respond puts you automatically in the wrong, regardless of other considerations.

    Regards,
    Ric

  122. “modify the cunt out of it”?
    “cunt off you fuck-sticks”?

    Maybe Jeff could trade Matt some swearing lessons for the work.

  123. Murphy’s law
    No good deed goes unpunished.

  124. Ric – yes, I could have been more communicative. Agreed. And, yes, I could have punted. Again, my bad. Acknowledged.

    One question I would like to hear Jeff field again is this: why did you think Tony got a raw deal? Oh, right, because someone was berating him and spinning shit-headed yarns about how he wasnt was he sez he was.

    Kind of ironic, isnt it, you whiny bitch?

  125. “modify the cunt out of it”?
    “cunt off you fuck-sticks”?

    trying to inject some humor in a mean angry way…. I think it’s funnier now that I read it than when I originally wrote it.

  126. Hmmm. This is not heading to a win-win space exactly, if I’m reading all this right. But the part about the good tree shows resolve. It’s just a prickly tree. Like a ouisatch maybe. Did you know you can make flour out of ouisatch seed pods? You can. Indian peoples figured it out. I got some online for my brother for Christmas one year. Here is the first of a seven-part joomla tutorial series on the youtube.

  127. Right – Jeff. .. likewise, if you knew me and valued your life, sir… you would also not fuck with my livelihood,

  128. Happy, I think you’ve kind of pegged the potential for heading in a non-optimal direction for win-win resolution thing going on here.

  129. despite all of this hostility coming from Whiny guy, this work in process will become a beautiful flower… and then Jeff can blow a goat for all I care.

    funny being fried for this… really. but, no matter, it will be done… and it will be done how i deem it to be so.

    now, Jeff, dont compound a very ugly situation… no dentist is good enough….

    (for the record, another joke).

  130. “Under Promise; Over Deliver” – Tom Peters.

    “Well done is better than telling your fuckstick clients to fuck off” -Things Benjamin Franklin Said

  131. I got the part about the mean angry humor. It’s like the stuff I say after I hang up the phone with clients sometimes. I never say that stuff to them cause usually the angry clients give the best thank you swag.

  132. Or, cunt off. – Things Benjamin Franklin Edited after the Fact

  133. happy – the “client” here is Jeff G. And if I am not mistaken, it is he who has made a living of sorts with his tender, sweet-loving, good-naturedness…. did he think he was the only one? If so, what does that tell you?

  134. “you would also not fuck with my livelihood…”

    - You seem to be handling that perfectly well on your own Root.

    - Time is a’wasting.

    - A whole hell of a lot of good will could be restored just by fixing the site.

  135. thx BBH – got that part…. but even that cannot undo what Jeff has decided to play out here in public.

  136. Well, in Tony’s case that happens to be true, Matt.

    What you sent me, however, doesn’t give you the same bragging rights.

    As for my being a whiny bitch, both Eliot and Tony know this not to be the case — that I have been extraordinarily patient. Matt was JAZZED about doing this project. He WANTED to help.

    We didn’t know that came with the compulsion to step and fetch and say “thankuh, suh!” every time he managed to cut and paste part of the old copy into ill-formed columns.

    As for “no good deed going unpunished,” horseshit. Show me the good deed. Ask Eliot how much appreciation he’s gotten out of Tony and me.

    Keep it up with the “whiny bitch” stuff, Matt.

    And for anyone else here who wants to pull some sort of equivalency argument out about how we’re BOTH to blame, fuck you, too. Because that ain’t the case, as everybody involved with this other than Matt recognizes and would be willing to testify to.

    Matt is a joke. But so long as he keeps his paying customers happy, his conscience is clear. Bravo.

  137. Thanks, BRD. I discerned that all by myself. I like the part where good tree make beautiful flower. This is a powerful metaphor, I hope.

  138. thx BBH – got that part…. but even that cannot undo what Jeff has decided to play out here in public.

    Actually, that was Dan.

    This is Tony’s site you’re putting together. I’ll let him decide if he wants to let you continue. But really, don’t pretend you’re doing anyone any favors at this point, least of all yourself. Now it’s all damage control, and you’re doing it poorly.

  139. Jeff – fuck yourself. the site will be outstanding when completed. and, yes, you are in fact a whiny bitch. like a grade-school ninny. nonetheless, I will now ignore you and finish the site. Had a great conversation with Tony while you were sleeping and I bet he would not condone the way you are handling yourself in public on his behalf. he has class, whereas you do not. I am going to finish this for him because I like him and because I committed to doing so. I no longer care about your take on the situation, given you don’t have any problem with being a whiny bitch using this blog to do real and measurable damage to my business. You are ignorant on the subject and again, I do not have time to edumacate you.

    now, cunt off

  140. thank you India thank you providence thank you disillusionment thank you nothingness thank you clarity thank you thank you
    silence

    This is a song about equanimity.

  141. Jeff: Just to be clear, the only place I’m suggesting any “equivalence” is that I think you were both foolish to make the deal in the first place.

    Since it begins to look as if I might lose my house over an exactly equivalent circumstance, I think I have some standing to make that remark. The learning experience is over. Now it’s time to issue grades, and the provost is not pleased.

    Regards,
    Ric

  142. Crap. Quick prayer for you Ric.

  143. II’ve never before seen the word “cunt” used as a verb. Interesting.

  144. …and another, Ric.

  145. Ditto those that beat me to it, Ric.

  146. - Yes. Priorities.

    - My good wishes as well Ric.

  147. Prayers to you Ric.

  148. - No Jeff – that was me. For good reasons Dan is probably staying out of this.

  149. For the record, I took this on for two reasons: 1) I have been reading Jeff for some time, never had the surplus to make a monetary contribution and therefore saw this work as a means to repay him for all the great content over the years. 2) I also saw it as an opportunity to reach an audience – I felt confident that if I could deliver some good work for Jeff and Tony, that Jeff would say as much on PW.

    To my mind, there was just compensation here. It was a trade that was predicated on both my receiving something and my giving something in return for what I had already received in the form of PW. That’s what motivated me anyway. Additionally, I’m now motivatd because I’ve come to appreciate what an incredible, interesting and authentic person Tony is.

  150. How about this?

    Jeff G.: Pissed because he asked for help “for a friend” (this is a good time to remember that this doesn’t benefit him personally), received a commitment to help, had virtually no conversation for a long period of time when it was critical to go forward and finally received a mock up that obviously wasn’t ready. Blows gasket and blogs.

    Matt E.R.: Volunteers to do a lot of work for nada due to admiration for Jeff G. Waits over a month for artwork and design. In the meantime gets stupid busy and struggles to do work, no time for E-Mails or phone calls. Finally uploads “first draft” of website with every intention of correcting flaws and making it whole, Jeff posts his dismay and anger for all the world to see, Brother outs his identity, pissing him off more, immediately reacts angrily to public outing making his feelings very plain and very graphic.

    The rat a tat back and forth degenerates quickly.

    Perhaps now would be a good time for everyone to step back, breath deep, stop insulting and outing each other, and concentrate on finishing the job rather than dueling for greater victimization cred.

    Matt: Two things: Admitting you were wrong about communication is rightly placed early in the discussion rather than later, and grudgingly at that. Also, the use of the C-word as “harsh humor” in a situation already fraught with bad feelings is just gasoline on the fire.

    You both are now invited to tell me to f*ck of or call me a hairy c#nt and it won’t bother me in the least.

  151. You are being a complete dick-bag about this. And if you expect to be star-fucked by me in any manner, you will be waiting a very long time.

    Amount of respect lost by Enoch_Root for the ingrate Jeff, our savior = a lot.

    Now go work at some university or .org, you prick. Talent like yours doesn’t belong in the real world where doers and pay-check earners actually have to answer to paying clients. Better yet, go to Ponderosa, you classless fuck, and complain to management about having to wait in line.

    I’ll give you your wrestling site when it’s good and ready and you can shove it up your ass. Because you are a big heaping pile of shit as a client.

    How’s that?

    About perfect, I’d say, as psychological profile. Of you.

    You want to come here and savage me because you couldn’t be bothered to honor your commitments? Fine. But you are a shabby man for doing so, not the good tree you imagine yourself.

    As for my qualifications vs yours….Well, maybe you’re right, and I’m not equipped to enter the world of paying customers. And yes, maybe my contributions to society don’t add up to the coding you do for the internet. But hey, I’m just playing the hand I’ve been dealt.

    Jeff – fuck yourself. the site will be outstanding when completed. and, yes, you are in fact a whiny bitch. like a grade-school ninny. nonetheless, I will now ignore you and finish the site. Had a great conversation with Tony while you were sleeping and I bet he would not condone the way you are handling yourself in public on his behalf. he has class, whereas you do not. I am going to finish this for him because I like him and because I committed to doing so. I no longer care about your take on the situation, given you don’t have any problem with being a whiny bitch using this blog to do real and measurable damage to my business. You are ignorant on the subject and again, I do not have time to edumacate you.

    now, cunt off

    I think you overestimate Tony’s feelings toward you.

    You just admitted on the phone that you “flaked” for “6 weeks,” that you didn’t bother to look at the “first draft” you sent us, that you didn’t bother to identify it as a first draft after four months, that you would NEVER do that with a paying client, and that you didn’t bother to answer emails or phone calls — including the one I placed yesterday upon viewing this work.

    You haven’t heard any complaints from me until just now. Whiny bitch? Whatever.

    Perhaps you might cogitate on how much this particular classless post has spurred you to action and attention, and consider that, if my goal has always been to make sure my friend was taken care of, I may not much care about having to take flack from you. Particularly if you’re now suddenly re-interested in getting the job done.

    Now, I’m through. With all of this.

  152. good tree make beautiful flower is my mantra for today. I am going to be the bestest tree I can be. albeit maybe a little late for work.

  153. What does with all of this mean?

  154. My prayers are with you, Ric.

    Hopefully, two certain people figure out that I was not making an equivalency argument above but rather laying out individual complaints. Having done some of this mediation type stuff before I thought I would try to help.

    Or … you can both tell me to f#ck off and I will do so, with serenity.

  155. Thoughts and prayers going your way, too, Ric. Best if luck to you.

  156. Obviously, the “if” should be “of”.

  157. In the last couple weeks you have

    Alienated the best contributor to this website besides yourself

    Succeeded in pissing on someone that agrees to help you out for FREE (just to let you know if someone is doing something for you for free you lose the right to complain)

    And you keep endlessly talking about “taking breaks”, quiting, or the one you typed just now “Now, I’m through. With all of this.”

    Dude grow the f#ck up.

  158. What does with all of this mean?

    Well, judging from Matt’s phone conversation with me, it means I’m a whiny bitch and an asshole.

    I have different thoughts.

  159. He doesn’t want that cake. Give it to me, Happyfeet.

  160. BTW, Ric, I am sorry to hear of your trouble. Good thoughts your way.

  161. I’m with BJTexs. Somebody close this thread.

  162. Agreed, Patrick. Time to let the boys work it out or fight it out. We’re not helping any.

  163. Mr Pink –

    You don’t know me, nor do you know jackall about running a site like this.

    1) I did not “alienate” Karl. I had to chose between banning a longtime commenter who happens to be tight with another contributor, and appeasing Karl’s desire to ban said commenter for making charges that everyone here knows (and pointed out each time) were ridiculous.

    2) A lot of people contacted me VOLUNTEERING their help with this project. They knew upfront the terms. When it became clear to me that he was too busy to even bother to respond, I asked him what I could do to help, and offered him a graceful exit on several occasions. As I say, others volunteered, and we are dealing with a business website, which means we are dithering around with a person’s livelihood. Had he had the wherewithal to pay, I’m sure he would have. For my part, I’ve helped him out financially in other areas, so I was in position to help out on this end other than by using my reach to find a volunteer.

    And sorry, but if you make a commitment — for free — and don’t follow through, I am under no obligation to genuflect for the rest of my life.

    And you keep endlessly talking about “taking breaks”, quiting, or the one you typed just now “Now, I’m through. With all of this.”

    Dude grow the f#ck up.

    I’m sure that the pressures of commenting here daily are enormous, Mr Pink. So you know just where I’m coming from.

    So if by “growing the fuck up” you mean, “continue to either provide me with free shit or else go away already,” I’ll take that under advisement.

    What I won’t do, however, is take abuse like this on my own site.

  164. Mr. Pink brought a nice hot steaming mug of the unhelpful I think. Two sugars please.

  165. Mr Pink brought to light the problem with “group” sites.

    Mr Pink can fuck himself raw with a frozen swordfish.

  166. Jeff, as I said in the phone conversation with you a moment before you posted #151

    - I did flake for 6 weeks (i apologized and apologize for doing so)
    - I did not treat you as a normal client
    - I did not look at the applied design and content-ported site prior to sending to you (this one i’ll also apologize for)
    - I mentioned we don’t have to like each other personally (and in fact can hate one anouther just fine) and still the objective is to provide Tony a great site when all is said and done (this will be done as I mentioned above)
    - I do still think you are all of the things I stated above
    - nonetheless, I also apologized for saying things that I shouldn’t have (although funny to me), as they were beneath the call of the faith I try hard to stick to.
    - I am hereby fulfilling my obligation to you, in accord with that faith, in front of your community. As mentioned, it does not change how I feel about the person I am “getting to know”.
    - I further apologize for my emails being part of this blog… as well as for using the c-word in this forum. I did not intend the former to be lent to the scandal that is this post. I hesitated, knowing full well you might post them, but figured you likely wouldn’t. they were intended for you and you alone. For those who have read them and been further scandalized, I apologize for that (though I would send them again to Jeff via email).
    - I also mentioned that your blog was not the most prudent way to move forward. As it turns out, things have calmed down a bit at my work(s) and job(s), so while your post here is prickly, I still dont respond to this sort of fifth column activity. It just so happens that the timing is now right. Believe that or not, that is the God’s honest truth.

    I also mentioned to you during the conversation that I will fulfill what I volunteered to fulfill. As for what Tony thinks about me… I dunno what to say having only spoken to him a couple times in my life.

    The objective is to get a great site live which will happen. The only thing that can stand in the way is you. And I can’t control that.

    One day we will meet in person and you can tell me how un-professional I was when dealing with you and this project. I will agree and tell you I still disagree with your approach to professionalism (this post). And then we can duke it out if you want. Or not. I’ll be the guy in black. You can wear my Baptismal gear. And then you can post about it.

    With as much love as I can muster for you Jeff,
    Matt

  167. Well ban me then, I am such a worse commentator than thor anyway. I mean I haven’t even called you racist yet so you should ban me right now for my audacity.

  168. ban me too. please. and I will still finish the site for Tony…

  169. Well, then it’s all settled. Right, back to work, all of you. Nothing to see here – just move along.

  170. I’ll include you in my prayers Ric. Good luck to you.

    Also, on an unrelated note – Puppies and rainbows.

  171. Fuck yourself, Matt.

    I can’t stand in the way of you fulfilling the promise you made not only me but Tony. Only you can. You — and some others here — can spray the blame all about and hope some of it sticks on me.

    You can let it be known that outside of the blogworld I’m an insufferable prick — one who somehow managed to become close friends with such a standup guy as Tony, and who has had a great relationship with Eliot.

    Who knows, maybe some of that will stick, too.

    But you are a crass shitheel — and whereas before I criticized your unprofessionalism (which now,finally, you’ve copped to) — I will now let it be known that you are every bit as vile in meatspace as you appeared in those emails, not the least for going after me personally when I took pains to go after the (now admitted to) poorness of your work, without mentioning your name.

    You have your supporters here. But every principal involved in this whole thing SAVE you is not even remotely on your side — nor do they share your assessment of me as a human being.

  172. EG, you forgot the kittens and bunnies. Never forget the bunnies.

  173. No, I’m not going to ban you, Mister Pink.

    You are free to ban yourself, though. Or don’t. Just shit on the rug I provide and then tell me to “grow the fuck up” for complaining that I don’t much feel like stepping around it.

  174. I’m drafting a letter to my Mother-in-Law. What do I need to do to get permission to cut-and-paste some of this stuff?

  175. Paging Rodney King. Need some words of wisdom here

  176. cranky-d

    True, shouldn’t forget the kittens and bunnies. Also baby ducks and chicks.

  177. I am not one of his supporters. The man can go fall of a cliff for all I care, I do not know him from Adam.

  178. OK – Jeff – who am I to argue with the king in his castle?

    If you can move forward with yourself in the manner you are coming off in this exchange, then so be it. Like I said, you don’t have to like me and I certainly do not like you.

    Nevertheless, the objective remains. If it assuages your outrage, I will put it thusly: I, Matt Collins, am responsible for every single aspect of all things related to this “project”. Jeff G, the almighty obama-ness cum blogger has no culpability for the scandal that is this post. None. I reiterate: do not think less of the Messiah because of this scandal. I, and I alone, am responsible. Please do not find fault in the dignified gentleman from CO, as he has nothing… I repeat nothing… to do with this escalation.

    Oh Jeff – I am heartily sorry for having offended thee.

    I stand convinced you have the dignity afforded even the least of human creatures,
    Matt

  179. Education Guy

    I cannot believe I forgot the baby ducks. I am chastised.

  180. LOL…Thanks, Al. I knew you’d bring the levity.

    Why do people asked to be banned? Jeff only bans moronic one trick ponies/stalkers (yeah, I’m eye balling you timmah!). Hell, the drunk ESL biatch still drops by to poo all over the joint, from time to time. I haven’t even mentioned DementedDave. I don’t think Jeff discourages opinions.

  181. Hey Matt have you ever cooked someone a nice dinner only to then have them say you took to long making it and it tasted like sh#t?

    Channeling Jack Nicholson in Big Daddy
    “I SAID OVER EASYYYYYY!!!!!”

  182. So.

    Anybody think the Broncs could go all the way this year?

  183. Mr. Pink – well, here’s the thing… I didn’t make it clear that it was only half-cooked. I should have. My bad. But yeah, I do know the feeling.

  184. For the first time in my adult life……I’m really proud of this blog

  185. Naw, McGehee — Now that it’s B-R-E-T BRETT BRETT BRETT in Gotham, the NFL’s already written their preferred storyline.

    Still would’ve liked to see #4 wearing Viking purple. Can you imagine the drama that would’ve been the first Monday Night Football game of the season, Vikes vs. Pack in the Metrodome? Now that woulda been Bigtime Football. Boom!

  186. “Listen, I’m sorry you’re going to death row because I couldn’t be bothered to put in the work to defend you. On the plus side, though, I defended you for free, as the state demands. So quit your bitching already.”

  187. Dude – you have no idea how much I would relish punching your teeth through the back of your throat right now. That was a joke, although it would be fun.

    This blogging thing is a kick!

  188. Anyone else sick of hearing about Brett Farve? Montana played a couple years with the Chiefs and you didn’t see this kinda coverage when he left the 49′ers. He will be lucky if his QB rating will be above 80 with the poo poo team the Jets are fielding.

  189. Whiny… whiny… etc.

    Get over yourself. not everyone has to like you, Jeff.

    Not everyone likes me (I know it’s hard not to and all given my charm) and I am fine with it.

    It’s really not that bad. Some people just don’t like each other. It just is so.

    But again, in my eyes you will always have the inherent dignity of a human.

  190. I know some people who are sick of hearing from you, Mr Pink. Me among them.

  191. I don’t know as I expect much from Favre in his new venue. I remember when Joe Montana moved to Kansas City.

  192. Keep it up, Matt.

  193. Doug, I soooo wanted to see Brett on the Vikings. That would’ve been awesome.

  194. Dude – you have no idea how much I would relish punching your teeth through the back of your throat right now. That was a joke, although it would be fun.

    If he is sending you emails like that then there is a serious problem and I humbly apologize for even looking like I was taking his side.

  195. Brett on the Jets. Sad. I heard it here first. Like McGehee said, this will be like Montana in Kansas, but probably not even that good.

  196. And seriously if you would like to go toe to toe, pls say the word. I am only 1 hour north of Chicago.

    You: no prob

    Tony: no thanks.

    The word.

  197. previous email which resulted me in talking about punching whiny-boy’s teeth through the back of his skull:

    “Yeah. You called at 6:30 in the morning. I have a young son. And had I answered the phone and heard this garbage spewing out of you, I’d be on a plane to Wisconsin to fuck your day up badly.”

    Jeff G, man of power and might. And out to prove it!!!!! Can you say mid-life crisis?

  198. There were some people here in my neck of the woods who wanted to see Favre come to Atlanta. Given the way local media had fawned over Michael Vick, having Jesus Christ, Superstar take over as starting QB would have been a bit much to take.

    Especially if the Falcons continued their losing ways.

  199. ok, then. bike rack at noon.

    I will still finish tony’s site. But I will not cover your dental bills.

  200. Say, does anyone think maybe thor actually writes for the AJC sports page? That would explain a lot.

  201. Jeff G, man of power and might. And out to prove it!!!!! Can you say mid-life crisis?

    I’ll be able to say whatever I want afterwards.

    I’m cool that way.

  202. funny – no care needed, jeffy.

    you dont know shit about me.

    how do you picture me, jeff?

    where have I been jeff?

    exactly how ruthless am I, jeff?

    do you think you are tough, jeff?

    The word.

  203. As a Redskins fan I guess I am lucky to have all of our hype about a huge new free agent stop after the first 3 games.

  204. Atlanta has some serious wounds to heal after the Vick worship ended so badly. I’m not sure how much Favre would’ve helped with that.

  205. I guess, Jeff. You’re the king. Now go get laid! it’ll take care of that testosterone poisoning.

  206. “Be careful, Matt.”

    Jefrak Obamastein via email to angry and horribly unprofessional “techie”

    why do you keep omitting your email to me Jeff?

  207. let the record stand as is, man of truth and principle!

  208. cranky-d:
    But his commute would’ve been a lot shorter. Coulda played in a dome in nice, hot weather — a lot easier on old joints than the Frozen Tundra.

    I’m hoping the Vikes’ D makes mincemeat out of Rodgers both times “we” play the Pack this year and I hope McCarthy and crew suck lemons all season.

  209. I’ll be able to say whatever I want afterwards.

    no one will understand what you’ll be gurgling about, midlife man.

  210. I smell pay-per view.

  211. Here:

    Matt’s email:

    On Aug 7, 2008, at 10:14 AM, Matt Collins wrote:

    And seriously if you would like to go toe to toe, pls say the word. I am only 1 hour north of Chicago.

    You: no prob

    Tony: no thanks.

    My response:

    Be careful, Matt.

    Matt’s response:

    funny – no care needed, jeffy.

    you dont know shit about me.

    how do you picture me, jeff?

    where have I been jeff?

    exactly how ruthless am I, jeff?

    do you think you are tough, jeff?

    My response:

    I know about me. Which means I don’t have to worry about you.

    ****

    Matt’s first email to me this morning:

    Dan & Jeff –

    on a personal note, this was a poor way to handle this situation.

    there was an issue with the push to the site. we will reinstall this morning.

    now, what I get to deal with is defending for my partner why I agreed to do this site at all.

    I will review with him that at the time I signed on to do it, I had some time to focus on it. and Jeff has forgotten how long we waited and waited for the graphic elements to be done. He also seems to have forgotten the key word analysis I did which will be applied, the initial info architecture which I also did which was summarily ignored and not followed.

    And I am busy, you fucks… so busy. Busier than I have ever been.

    Point is this: I am not your punching-bag, Jeff. if you are an unhappy soul, that’s between you and someone bigger than me. But to do what you have done on your site is just fucked. Plain and simple: fucked.

    We’ll give you your site. And I will work in good faith to do the best I can, given the amount of energy I have to give to it.

    But after that, I believe I will be happy nary to speak with you again. And that is a shame.

    If you knew me, Jeff, you would realize you are pissing on a good tree. And you would feel shame for it. And you would lament behaving so badly.

    You have plenty of enemies, Jeff. Dont go looking to make allies your enemies too.

    And a personal note for you because I fear no one else will hazard to say it to you: grow up.

    Matt

    My response:

    Yeah. You called at 6:30 in the morning. I have a young son. And had I answered the phone and heard this garbage spewing out of you, I’d be on a plane to Wisconsin to fuck your day up badly.

    How’s that? Anything I left out?

  212. no one will understand what you’ll be gurgling about, midlife man.

    The word.

  213. #209
    I have heard better threats of violence from 12 year old boys playing Halo.

  214. it’s alright… but you forgot to describe me as wearing all black and also growling. oh… and I have a scar across my weathered face.

    oh, and a limp too.

    oh, and my kids hate me…. a lot… as does my wife.

    oh, and I steal candy from babies whenever I can.

    hmmmm, did I leave anything out? I am sure there is more, midlife whiny man…

  215. the word… Jeff… got it… the word.

  216. I don’t think you have gotten it yet, Matt. I honestly don’t.

  217. Doug:

    With Favre gone, my affection for Green Bay has dwindled. It was always fun to watch the Vikings – Green Bay matchup because not only did they always play their toughest games, but either way a team I wanted to win, won. I will probably watch some GB games because they are more likely than not to be on in my area, and since the Vikings are a shadow of what they were years ago, I don’t expect much from them either.

  218. ok – I Matt Collins have gotten the word issued forth from his almighty perfectitude and hopey-changiness, Jeff Goldstein.

    Word has been received.

    Now answer my email about scheduling a call to go over the content and keyword integration (sprinkling) thereof.

    Really mean and horrible person,
    Matt

  219. …and then they napalmed the village. People fled screaming.

    Someday both of you are going to reread these comments and blush with embarrassment.

    Oh and Leprechauns and pixies.

  220. Leprechauns and pixies are not cute. They can be malicious little suckers. But maybe you meant it that way.

  221. no, because I am a shameless hack! a hack I tell you! and I have no shame! except for all of the horribly horrible horribleness that is me!

  222. Matt are you bipolar?

  223. Someday both of you are going to reread these comments and blush with embarrassment.

    Not me.

  224. “The Word”… It’s not “Rosebud”, is it?

    ‘Cause, man, that’d just be awesome.

    And cranky-d, the Vikes are going to take the North this year. Their running game, improved passing game and amped-up D should make ‘em contenders.

    (Spoken like a true fanboi, I know.)

  225. 219 Agreed.
    I already regret even typing a word on this thread.

  226. Matt are you bipolar?

    Catholic, I believe
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    oops

  227. As I’ve said elsewhere, I helped out on this because I’ve always loved Jeff’s work. It has also been a profound pleasure getting to know him.

    I also know, having read his site for years now, that he has been the target of no limit of vitriol. I have a little blog myself. I write about marketing philosophy. I once took issue on my blog with a guy who was burning all his branded goods because he’d read Alain de Botton’s “Status Anxiety” and decided that consumerism is the root of all evil–a permutation of the same philosophical positions that many here find repugnant. He and his sycophants came to my blog and offered profoundly deep insights about my positions, such as the suggestions that I’m a “turgid prick” and a “cunt”.

    I was quite genuinely nauseated for days. I wanted to respond intelligently and thoughtfully, but I also wanted to tell them what a bunch of fucks I thought they were for so blithely ignoring the substance of my post in favor of adolescent crap. In fact, I think they had it coming to them.

    In the end, I didn’t do it. I made a joke about it. Hell, you can read it for yourself if you’re interested (much of the insult came on his blog, not mine). Maybe I’m a wimp. Maybe I owe it to the principles to which I aspire to defend them vigorously. Maybe there is some Buddhist principle regarding maintenance of balance that I achieved. Honestly, I really don’t know. What I do know is that it was debilitating. I was messed up for a few days trying to decide how to deal with it and trying to decide whether I really was a turgid prick.

    I can only imagine the way Jeff has felt about the shit he’s received. My treatment was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING compared to what he has endured over the years. From my conversations with him, he doesn’t strike me in any way as some kind of callous, arrogant narcissist who can easily let that stuff roll over him because his opinion of himself overrides all else or something. Not to be too “inside baseball” as someone else here put it in another thread, but my take on Jeff from our conversations over the last few weeks is that he is a incredibly compassionate person. What he is doing for Tony is really rather herculean. Tony clearly deserves it, but Jeff didn’t have to be the guy to take up the gauntlet. And yet, he did; forsaking his rather popular blog to do so.

    I don’t like the way this is playing out because I want Jeff’s honorable work on Tony’s behalf to be the thing that defines this experience above all else. It pains me greatly to know that Jeff is deep in angst over all this and even feels as though he’s personally responsible for having let Tony down. To know Tony is to understand where I’m coming from here. He’s really an amazing guy. I wish you all could meet him.

    Matt, I really wish you hadn’t decided to respond the way you have. I don’t consider myself in possession of some station that allows me to pronounce anything normative here. I’m just saying I think you took an already difficult situation and made it impossible. Tony, in particular, did absolutely nothing to deserve it. That said, I can only be responsible for my own actions and as I have said elsewhere, I fucked up. I should have had my part done more quickly. In fact, I fuck things up a lot. I happen to think that admission of such, devoid of any other commentary, is a rather Christian thing to do. But, y’know, motes and planks and all that. So, again, I’m very very sorry for all this.

    I hope the brinksmanship comes to an end soon.

  228. If you’d like, Mr Pink, I’ll happily go through at your request and remove your contributions.

  229. Doug, what new and exciting way do you think Tony Romo will find a way to lose the first playoff game this year? As a Redskins fan that is always hilarious.

  230. Mr Pink – no… I am given to anger and then mercy and compassion a couple hours later.

    this is the process I have had to invoke since I spent some time away where I could not hurt anyone else. when the shadow overtakes me, it is really bad. and then, when I calm down I really calm down… but, yes, it probably looks a wee bit bipolar. not a problem I am unaware of. it will be my life’s work, really, making due with the darkness and scratching toward the light as best I can.

    but, yes… am I not exactly normal? yes. that would be accurate.

  231. Well you did compare my “contributions” to dog sh!t on your carpet, and then told me to fornicate with a swordfish. To be honest I am wondering why they are still there.

  232. Eliot – I am also responsible for my shit, as I have outlined above.

    What I am not responsible for is the escalation of hostilities which started when Jeff decided this was the proper place to air his issues in regard to the matter at hand.

    And, well, to know him is to love him… fine. Afford me the same benefit, Eliot. Or not. Your call.

  233. Believe me, Doug, I hope the Vikings go all the way. I’m just not holding my breath about it.

  234. #

    Comment by Jane Mansfield on 8/7 @ 10:58 am #

    Matt are you bipolar?

    Catholic, I believe
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    oops

    That’s really carrying it too far Jane.

  235. 230
    Did you tell Jeff you were bipolar and that you had “spent time away in a dark place”?

  236. Mr. Pink:
    Romo will actually sit the game out, allowing Jessica Simpson to start in his place. Simpson will go 21/40, 3 INTs, 2 TDs and a fumble recovery in Dallas’ loss to a resurgent 49ers club. She’ll be signed to a long-term contract by the Bills a week later, ending her relationship with Romo as it’s against NFLPA rules for players to date each other.

    *grin*

  237. She’ll be signed to a long-term contract by the Bills a week later

    Hey, why not save us a lot of time and just kick me in the balls now. The end result will be the same and we can skip all the waiting.

  238. Can’t you cunting see that there are people hurting on this cunting thread. And all you cunty cunt-faces want to talk about is cunting football. Get your cunty heads out of your cunting ESPN magazines and try to cunt up some cunting empathy. Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to go cunt the lawn.

  239. Mr. Pink – erm… no, as I was not aware until you mentioned it in 235 that I had been diagnosed.

    As for the dark place… if you took that to mean a sanatorium, I have misled you. that was not the case. though on being sane in insane places…. I do know a bit about that… but not as much as I inadvertently communicated above.

    And anyways, let’s say I was bi-polar… why would I heap that out as an excuse? We all have our particular crosses. Mine just happens to be a blacking out quasi out of body anger management issue. Not a passing out… but a rather strange sense of being outside of time as my body chemistry careens toward mutual assured destruction for which I have to apply all manner of self control to adjust for. It is for the best.

  240. Paging Dr Ruth … Dr. Ruth Westheimer … please report to the courtesy phone in the dark place on the left … Dr. Ruth ….

    That’s really carrying it too far Jane.

    Heh, Jane’s burdens …

  241. What I am not responsible for is the escalation of hostilities which started when Jeff decided this was the proper place to air his issues in regard to the matter at hand.

    What, you mean after your refusal to return phone calls, answer emails, address concerns, etc? That I then mentioned the poor work and lack of respect we’d been afforded without attributing it directly to you?

    That “escalation”?

    More like a phone call that you knew was best not to ignore, it seems to me. How you’ve chosen not to ignore it is all on you.

  242. Jeff after reading Enoch’s last few posts I came to the stark realization that I was wrong earlier about my observations. You were right, I was wrong. Very wrong.

    God I hate saying that.

    PS Someone get this guy some help.

  243. Jeff – pls return to your gmail and respond with proposed time for conference call re copy for the site.

    I have no idea what matt’s talking about. Oh, hang on… channeling him right now. He sez the posting on the blog was just not prudent. he sez he has already copped to the other aspects… not returning phone calls and emails as being flaky. and he has already apologized for all sorts of stuff in addition. losing connection.

    sorry man, he just hung up.

  244. Mr. Pink – there is no help to be had. thanks for your concern though.

  245. Bah, it’s just another frothing woodchuck.

  246. His Highness is busy at the moment. Please leave your message and he might return it.

    Meantime, don’t you have work to be doing?

  247. Is there anything worse than waking up to find your penis is missing? I mean, really?

  248. Frothing Woodchuck. Good name for a band.

  249. Have I mentioned that I have Asperger’s syndrome? Accordingly, I feel like the unfrozen caveman lawyer in all this.

    Matt, I wasn’t calling you out. I wasn’t trying to get you to “take responsibility.” I was expressing my regret that you decided to respond as you did. I was talking about sales with my father yesterday. He said, “You can’t control when people are going to buy; you can only control your own activity.” Whatever Jeff’s post above is, it isn’t an expletive-laced incitment. Ever been to The Consumerist? That’s what this internet here thing is all about. I don’t see where he called you a cunt though. Nor do I see where he even mentioned you by name.

    As for my knowing you to love you, I offered no evaluation of your character. As P.J. O’Rourke says, “A libertarian is a conservative with a vice.” I’m full of error. Really. Fucking full to the gills. I was hoping by my comments to improve the tenor of the interaction, not call you to the carpet. Which, y’know, may have been another of my fuck-ups.

  250. Jeff – yes I do, but his highness’s minion managed to piss me off so much that I can hardly concentrate for the distraction.

    And also that his highness’s minion should be punished by his highness. Because his highness would not tolerate such a showing in his court by said minion or this matt character. if that is his real name.

  251. Eliot – that’s what they call homefield advantage.

    No offense not meant taken.

  252. I wonder if your paying customers know how much time you’re spending here today tossing out your frippery in the comments section to a blog.

    That was rhetorical, of course.

  253. Sauteed Woodchuck. Also a good name for a band.

  254. Likewise Chucking Wood…for a band.

  255. Frippery Woodchuck. Not a good name for a band.

  256. But probably not Woodchuck in Cream Sauce.

  257. …but Chucking Sauteed Wood now…evokes pain and suffering.

  258. How much would will this woodchuck chuck?

  259. Not much if in a cream sauce…too slippery.

  260. malaclypse … please link your blog. I would like to read. Mr. Enoch, he also has had some neat things to say about the marketing if I remember. He had graphs.

  261. Pingback: One Fine Jay » Wow

  262. If you’re going to come up with band names, you could at least try to stay on topic and use some form of the word “cunt” in them:

    The Four Cunts
    The Cunty Boys
    The Black Cunts
    The Cuntanaires
    Cunt Zeppelin
    Gladys Knight and the Cunts
    Aerocunt
    Jefferson Starcunt
    CCR

  263. I am the guy who’s website is detailed above. I have been trying to write something eloquent for the last 45 minutes, but I guess I’m the all brawn, no brains type.

    I don’t like my personal feelings on the WWW, but I will state this; Jeff is one of, if not my very best friends in the world. He is totally committed to getting me a world class website. It truly is one of his top priorities right now. Eliot has given the shirt off his back as far as I’m concerned. We’ve had great discussions about a myriad of topics. We have developed a friendship that will last far beyond this saga. I’ve spoken with Matt twice so I know him the least out of the three. Today was the most interaction I’ve had with him so I can’t really write much more about it.

    Simply put, my wesbite isn’t worth all this BS and drama. No ones name should get dragged through the mud like this. Everyone involved with this project has been insulted/threatened. I am reminded of a line spoken by Ned Beatty in the movie Deliverence (fitting I guess, since I believe there was earlier mention of men getting things shoved up their ass), “My God, will it ever end?”

    Time to end it.

    My friendships come first.

    Thanks for letting me butt in.

    Tony Cecchine

  264. oh. der. I founded the link. good tree make beautiful flower good tree make beautiful flower.

  265. Hi Tony. I hope it all works out to your satisfaction.

  266. The website thing I mean.

  267. I’m pretty sure Thor would fuck a woodchuck. If it was Russian.

  268. Dramatic Woodchuck. That’s more like it.

  269. Starland Vocal Cunts

  270. Tony – Best of luck. Please do not hurt me ;-)

  271. And, Tony, very well said. Here’s hoping that your site will be up in no time {raises, unfortunately an imaginary, glass of 30 year old Balvenie).

  272. Thank you cranky-d, JD, and Obstreperous Infidel.

  273. now I feel like I have been mildly corrected by a benevolent heart. that I respond to. aggression? I respond to that as one might expect.

    thanks Tony. the site will be great when it is completed.

  274. There, now that Tony has weighed in, thus endeth the kerfuffle.

    Who wants pie?

  275. Woodchuck Pie. Probably the best name yet for a band.

  276. No problem, Tony.

    Oh, and happyfeet, no doubt about Mal’s blog. I always thought that, again outside of this here Protein Wisdom, the following commenters should have blogs of their own. Mal, Psycho, Ric Locke and JHoward. Now, I know Mal does. This is good.

  277. This is gonna work out just fine. It’ll be great. The Enoch and the tertiary malaclypse, they will make beautiful flower and it will be an affirmation of … something I think. I can’t wait to see.

  278. OI – Thanks for not including me in that list ;-)

    Tony – Jeff G got me turned onto Krav Maga about a year ago, and I am often remiss in expressing thanks for same. I managed to lose 30+ pounds and 3″ off the waistline in about 6 months of consistent training, things I had not been able to do with a trainer or at a gym.

    I am a fan, and a proponent.

  279. oh. I agree on the more bloggings, but I like having them all under one roof too. It’s really remarkable I think how that just happened.

  280. That Karl guy was a good blogger too.

  281. I dont want to ask what happened to Karl… do I?

  282. Best to you, Mr. C.

    Jeff, it becomes apparent why you pull hard for your friend.

  283. In Britain we keep all of these things bottled up, and then, when we’re 70, we explode.

     

    Your way is better, I think.

  284. In Britain we keep all of these things bottled up, and then, when we’re 70, we explode.

    I thought it was the French that kept their elderly at home, sans air conditioning…

    /me ducks and covers

  285. Best wishes Tony.
    Best wishes Jeff.
    Best wishes Ric.
    Best wishes Dan.
    Best wishes Malaclypse.
    I mean them sincerely to each of you, decent men each and every one.
    Of course, if wishes were fishes, we’d all be eating sushi now.

    Finally, my regrets for the “innocent” idiocy of the ignorant ass (myself) for wandering where into places (thought-space) I don’t belong. I didn’t know. Some excuse.

  286. now I feel like I have been mildly corrected by a benevolent heart. that I respond to. aggression? I respond to that as one might expect.

    thanks Tony. the site will be great when it is completed.

    Are you seriously now trying to use Tony’s response against me?

    You are unbelievably deluded.

  287. JD,

    Krav, from what little I’ve seen, is a terrific martial art. The key to any development be it physical or mental, is consistency. My advice, find yourself the best teacher/coach you can, and communicate your desires with him/her. Don’t let little setbacks deflate you. Everyone hits walls, but training is cyclical. I’m glad for your success.

    SarahW,

    Thanks for that post.

  288. A little advice, Matt. The best time to talk a bunch of shit is probably after you’ve delivered that kick ass site. You could probably even throw a “Boo Ya!” in there and have it met with a “Thank you” or two.

    Those who can, do.

  289. Oh. And best, Ric.

    I believe I’ve told you privately how much I appreciate your contributions here. But I should remember to thank you publicly as well, from time to time.

  290. Jeff – that comment was heartfelt to Tony and did not involve you in the least. I was appreciating his peacefulness and precise approach to facilitating peace. I found it calming. Again, no offense, but it didnt have anything to do with you.

  291. Pablo – good one.

  292. Tony, nice of you to drop by and weigh in.

    Ric, just…WTF. I’m thinking happy thoughts for you and yours.

  293. Jeff – that comment was heartfelt to Tony and did not involve you in the least. I was appreciating his peacefulness and precise approach to facilitating peace. I found it calming. Again, no offense, but it didnt have anything to do with you.

    Deluded.

  294. right. you can see my heart.

  295. Ric,

    I’ve always thought of you as the Randolph Scott in this movie, so I hope to God everything works out for you.

  296. Your heart has nothing to do with it. You are deluded about your standing.

  297. Comment by Jeff G. on 8/7 @ 10:56 am #

    Someday both of you are going to reread these comments and blush with embarrassment.

    Not me.

    ————————————————–
    Well, I think that comment in and of itself proves what a frightfully foolish man you are. How many people have you threatened to beat up in the last two weeks? The dude from Pennsylvania, anyone from Random House, and now a contributor to a cooperative venture!

    How many people do most grown men threaten to beat up every two weeks? Even on this blog full of testerone-addled middle aged men, I doubt many of them reach the one threshold. You are a towering intellect, sir. Might one suggest you direct that intelligence within your own heart to determine what makes you so…combative?

    Good Night, San Diego

  298. Okay. Time to go make the boy his lunch (whine!). Then I have some stuff to post on Amazon and some working out to do before we go enroll the kid in pre-school (whine! sob! How dare he leave me / I’m a narcissist!)

    My patience is worn thin (whine!). I might not post here for a spell, at least until my mind is cleared. Or I could post a billion times. I reserve that right (whiny narcissist! Prima Donna! His HIGHNESS jeffy!).

    Live long and prosper.

  299. I practice mainly with weapons like this, but I wouldn’t mind learning some wrestling. Can I buy the catch wrestling vids now?

    I must also say, I’m shocked, shocked, to learn that an Indian outsourcing project failed. Shocked.

  300. Oh, I’m foolish, Ron Burgandy. But not for reacting to emails labeling me a cunt and fuckstick, or to vulgar intimations about my child left by a guy in diapers and a stuffed animal costume who owns a stash of child porn, or to someone wishing me a painful death to cancer.

    No, my foolishness is in presuming to fight for anything in the first place. Sound and fury and all that.

    I am now Gulliver. Tie me down with your twine.

  301. Hey Enoch when you have one of these rage filled black-outs does your skin turn green?

  302. no. when I have one of these rages, Jeff’s skin turns green. and he threatens to beat people up.

  303. As for me, I have to go over-promise and under-deliver and treat my clients like cunts, because I am a hack… erm… and now I am whining too!

    It’s contagious!

    Currently coding some really jacked code with some indians… haha! I mean dot-heads! haha! what do they know?

    Built in America, ya’ll!

  304. Do these black-outs occur mostly when you are commenting on here or when you are at the tail end of a 32 hour World of Warcraft session?

  305. pre-school! I went to a pre-school in Minnesota. We had a guinea pig and I got to feed it and my teacher had nine fingers and she had learned great respect for the paper cutter thinger. I still have the picture of me and my class. It’s still there, but that lady she is dead my mom said. I don’t know what happened to all those funny Norwegian kids.

  306. Mr. Pink – nah. only when I get real good and mad.

  307. I love America.

  308. Oh ya shure!

  309. no. when I have one of these rages, Jeff’s skin turns green. and he threatens to beat people up.

    “People”?

    And seriously, why aren’t you working on this kick ass site you promised? Is it lunch time in Bollywood or something?

  310. happyfeet:
    So you too, presumably, know the “wonders” of hot dishes, bars, lefsa and lutefisk?

    Okay, so fish soaked in lye ain’t my cuppa either, but hot dishes, bars and lefsa all make me feel warm and home-y inside.

  311. Hey, I went to preschool in Minnesota, too! Funny thing, these here intartubes – you meet all kinds.

  312. I feel like I’m ignored, here. I’m sad.

  313. Jeff – not fair – you were eavesdropping!

    Again, I am a slithery-snake… so, like, erm, my skin is perpetually green… because I am out to fleece the world! The world, it is my oyster! I can’t wait to eat it all up!

    Oh, happy chance, that I should stumble into such good fortune and be surrounded by such pure and well-meaning cyber-friends!

    I dance through the lilies on a canoe of money stolen from old widows!

    I am a deluded caricature of myself!

  314. When I was saying I was wrong Enoch I hope you know I was talking specifically about you. You seem very crazy in retrospect, and I would hope to never owe a favor to someone like you. That is at least until you find some working medication.

    I know I did not earn myself any fans when I was voicing my displeasure with the owner of this site over his repeateded references to leaving or quiting but it is my opinion. Hope you all have a great day and best of luck to you Ric with your house.

  315. Mr. Pink – yes, thank you and your artful insight!

    My life has been changed for the fortune of meeting you, sir.

    And, yes, best not to offend the owner of this blog.

  316. Jeff Y. You can purchase stuff on Tony’s website –

    Oh.

    Uh, try here, for the time being.

    There’s also a starter set, and some others. Email me privately if you’re interested. Sorry for missing your previous post.

  317. Thanks, Jeff G.

  318. And, yes, best not to offend the owner of this blog.

    I can take it. Don’t you worry about me.

    Hell, I didn’t even threaten to take a swipe at him. PROGRESS!

  319. By the way, that’s Eliot’s artwork in that last link. Good stuff.

  320. So you too, presumably, know the “wonders” of hot dishes, bars, lefsa and lutefisk?

    Yes! My brother married one of them Minnesota Norwegian girls. She does amazing things with potatoes, really nonchalantly. Also they have lots of stuff with rosemaling on it. This sort of thing…

  321. oh. This sort of thing, which you know about but not everybody I guess.

  322. good one, Jeff G!

  323. Also, India is the future, Jeff Y. You can castigate those chinkie winkie communist gaylympic retards if’n you want though. The gaylympics start tomorrow night already. Fags.

  324. Egads, hf! That image certainly takes me back…

    The style’s almost as prevalent in MN as the PA Dutch folk style is ’round the Lancaster area.

  325. They keep trying to get me to move to Minneapolis. So far no luck on that.

  326. - Is Obama going to the Faglympics. I would have thought he’d jump at the chance to breathe a little slant monoxide, and visit the heartland of his childhood dreams. Not to mention the typical Chink crowd, 2 million adoring fellow Marxists, all waving little red flags.

  327. Hey, do they have a kakelugn?

  328. Those catch wrestling dvds are pretty inexpensive for so much material.

  329. True, cranky-d. And the material is awesome.

  330. Can you do any of that training on your own?

  331. Probably too stupid a question I guess. I used to do Karate, and at least some things you can practice without another human present.

  332. You can train much of it on your own, but you want to try to find a training partner. Which ain’t easy when you’re doing catch. Thing is, if you find one, they usually stick around, because they know what they’re learning will work. It only takes one time caught in a wristlock or a figure four choke to know that.

  333. happyfeet wrote, Also, India is the future…

    Not buying it. And the H-1b visa program is scandalous.

    Some of us are still crazy enough to think that the USA is the future.

  334. Well yeah. America is the future, but India, it is the future too. It is a very big future. We can share. India is the part of the future where we have a superpluralistic prosperous democratic friend to play with. It will be fun.

  335. Actually, India is “the future” only insofar as it has a tremendous amount of kinetic energy going. It didn’t start yesterday, and it won’t end tomorrow. However, the Indian “bubble” is in a slow-burst mode right now. “You get what you pay for” (or it’s acronymified Heinleinian version, TANSTAAFL) will not be denied.

    Hmm. There’s a verbified acronym waiting to be coined. “Indian Bubble (see post-dot-com explosion) – the core cause of the ‘great TANSTAAFLment of the late 2000′s’. Many once-thriving western-based technical enterprises were TANSTAAFLed into receivership by investing too-heavily into off-shore R&D, ignoring the requirement to balance cost against experience.”

    Cunting TANSTAAFLers, all of them.

  336. Holy sh–!

    That scorpion leg lock hurts like a son-of-a-gun. I’m dying here. Shit.

    Make sure to tell your training partner to take it easy the first time. I’m blaming youtube.

    Did I say this shit hurts. Damn.

  337. Also they sing and dance.

  338. happyfeet wrote, ell yeah. America is the future, but India, it is the future too.

    I’ll believe that when India opens their employment market, and other markets, to US workers and entrepreneurs. If they can come here, we should be able to go there.

    I’m tired of my government negotiating access to giant US markets without gaining reciprocal access in the foreign country. I’m tired of freed trade for thee, but not for me.

    Where’s mine?

  339. Oh. Well ok. Those are sort of big picture things, but the bigger picture is they are very nice. It would be great to have an FTA with them. Democrats hate trading with brown people though. It’s sort of a thing with them.

  340. Jeff Y., the pay there is quite low compared to here. I doubt anyone would want to go there to work. However, you do have a point in that they should allow it.

  341. Also, elephants. Just walking around. How cool is that? And monkeys too.

  342. happyfeet, an FTA would solve all my problems. Well, not all of them, but the ones surrounding H-1b and the like.

    But, it’ll never happen. India is a fiercely socialist and Hindu-nationalist state. As we wait for the never-to-happen, end the H-1b program.

  343. Jeff Y –

    The truth is, it is far worse when someone trained in the subtlest details puts something like that on you. Remember, hooks are designed to maim and cripple and, with respect to some of the neck attacks, even kill.

    There are no katas here. This is straight-out brutal. And I can’t fairly get that across to people who have yet to experience one of these holds put on correctly. This is push/pull simultaneously, generally against bone or joint. If, for instance, I put someone in a double wrist lock and only wanted to take it to the point of a tap, you’d still see the forearm bowed out ready to snap.

    What I like about catch is that, like Krav, there’s no fucking around. Only catch is even more devastating, in my opinion — because it incorporates a groundfighting viciousness that Krav doesn’t much offer, while keeping with the same philosophy: namely, you want to get to your feet when you can.

  344. cranky-d, I’ve worked in lots of places where the pay is low, Kuala Lumpur and the Philippines, for example. There’s lots of money to be made by American entrepreneurs because the low wages usually accompany low investment costs.

    Wages aren’t everything in business.

  345. Jeff Y surreptitiously advocates for interests of the Indians, I think, since were they to open up as much as we have done they will be better off (just as we are). Sneaky fellow.

  346. Sdferr wrote, Jeff Y surreptitiously advocates for interests of the Indians…

    Who me? Sneaky? For shame. ;-)

  347. Jeff G, I just bought the DVDs off Amazon. I’m tapping my foot. Why aren’t they here yet? ;-)

    Anyone live in Dallas that wants to train?

  348. Oh, and I bought this too. Darleen will be pissed.

  349. Wages may not be everything, but we all have a finite time on this planet and a finite time to earn enough money to live on after we can no longer work. I would rather not work until I drop dead.

  350. cranky-d wrote, I would rather not work until I drop dead.

    I hear ya’. Me, I could never retire. I want to work all the way to the end. But even so, I made a nice chunk of change in Asia. A lot nicer than I make here in Dallas, that’s for sure. Of course, I was in business for myself back then.

  351. Jeff Y. I didn’t get an Amazon notification. Did you buy them from my link? If you bought them from somebody else, cancel your order, pronto. Otherwise, Tony doesn’t see a dime of that money.

  352. The link to our stuff is here.

  353. Finis

  354. There’s nothing better than a day on the lake. What’d I miss?

    Oh, Ric, just, damn. Best of luck with your home. Man’s got to have a home, first. Then of course, the pie..

    Then, there’s that issue leaving Minnesota. Favre was always one of my favorite QB’s. But, the Jets? How in the h-e-double-l is a backwoods Mississippi boy gonna get along in New Yawk City? The “Naked Cowboy” indeed.

    Tony C. is very well-spoken. A gentleman it seems.

    And, Bollywood sent me to g00gle. Jeff Y. seems to think Americans will never work there.

    Happyfeet, I wholeheartedly agree with your #307.

  355. Any of them DVDs got a cure for chronic fist magnetism, JG?
    http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=13118#comment-508083
    I think dude here could use a little help.

  356. Miyagi: “Then no get a-hit.”

  357. Oh, yeah, forgot. That Youtube channel is another thing I’ve been doing as part of the marketing strategy. And it may have paid off big time. Details to follow at a later date.

    Still, it’s been quite an effort. I had to learn to “rip” DVDs, learn various video platforms, learn video editing, etc. But the channel is doing well, and we’re pleased with the number of views and subscribers we have after only 4 months.

    We hope to integrate that with the website. For those of you interested, the youtube channel is here. The video clips just scratch the surface, really. Brutal, but effective to the point of actually making grown men cry.

  358. Hi Jeff. At the risk of being called a star fucking cunt, let me say what IMHO is conspicuously absent from this thread.

    Your position and actions have been completely understandable and appropriate for the circumstances. Few things are more frustratingly enraging than being ignored by someone you have placed your trust in to do something they know is very important to you, and they freely promised to do. Then, to have your predictably unhappy reaction met with such venom and bile…what an ASS!

    Anyway, best of luck on a speedy resolution to all this, not least for Tonys sake.

    Oh, and hope things work out for you too Ric, that sucks…

  359. Manfred Mann’s Cunt Band

  360. So Karl is not coming back then?

  361. I am hopeful yet.

  362. I contacted Karl today, but he doesn’t wish to speak to me by phone at this point. So I have little hope.

    I had been thinking on this, and what I’d come up with was that individual posters are free (within limits) to delete the comments of those in threads they head what chap their asses. That way, if, eg., Dan wanted thor to stay, but Karl wanted him to go, thor could stay on Dan’s thread and be removed from Karl’s.

    And I wouldn’t have to play Solomon. Who I ain’t.

  363. Thanks, lee.

  364. If Newt Gingrich felt that we needed to be less dependent on foreign Karl and produce our own Karl for the sake of national security, he would put a petition up on his American Solutions website for “Karl Here, Karl Now, Pay Less”. Then he’d finger-bang Nancy Pelosi on some stupid Global Warming Hoax commercial.

  365. That was meant as a joke. (except for the Pelosi stuff)

  366. That sounds really very fair. Everyone wants Karl to come back I think. He’s really good and on top of that he’s good at the dayparting and the promoting parts too but mostly I think that was not a good exit. He worked so hard and when he does ever go it should be with a big huge thank you we love you Karl thread I think. Just like in the movies.

  367. That was funny al but the last part invokes for real contempt. Newt is dead to me after that. Simple as that.

  368. With respect to the vids, I think “Brutal” is putting it lightly. However, I cannot come up with a better term. “Hellishly Brutal” maybe. I find my vocabulary lacking.

    I think the comment policy should work. The only issue might be someone hurling poop from a thread their target doesn’t control. That puts one in a spot, as it did me. We’ll have to come up with a solution that doesn’t involve you though. You have way too much to do without dealing with playground squabbles.

  369. Bring back Karl, the ‘dillo, and red pills. thor, not so much.

  370. it should be with a big huge thank you we love you Karl thread I think.

    Or a big ensemble song with lots of stars singing little cameo hooks and riffs and little duets

  371. Exactly! Also, mead.

  372. Newt is dead to me after that. Simple as that.

    What if Newt got a face-lift and donated the leftover chin-skin to a Darfur village to use as a roof on their council hut? Would that help at all?

  373. He’s just narsty isn’t he? No wonder he doesn’t have any friends.

  374. I’m with hf. Newt lost me when he jumped on the Global Climate Change Alarmist Bandwagon, or GCCAB. No, the acronym is not catchy at all.

  375. The Pelosi thing was unforgivable.

    60 times more oil seeps up from the ocean floor each year than was spilled by US rigs in the last decade. Drilling offshore would eliminate that seepage. Drilling would save the egrets. Concentrate on saving the egrets Newt and leave that skanky whisker-biscuit Pelosi to her own maniacal devices.

  376. Mr. Pink, quit the prostration; it’s just sad. Jeff: kudos; an outstanding advertising push for Tony’s site. I bet he got 20,000 bookmarks today. Hell, I even bookmarked his site, even though I oppose any fighting whatsoever. Marketing genious; well done you sneaky fakirs!

  377. though I oppose any fighting whatsoever.

    The lioness always uses her words first when her cubs are in danger.

    Learn to defend yourself cynn. Develop the physical.

  378. oops, genius. Wait, that doesn’t look right either. It’s been too long since I typed that word.

  379. Whatever, bitchez. I’m getting fatter by the minute.

  380. #

    Comment by Newt’s 401K on 8/7 @ 8:21 pm #

    Whatever, bitchez. I’m getting fatter by the minute.

    Just wait till the bottom falls out of hemp underwear. You’ll be looking like Calista Flockhart.

  381. Not to prolong this pitiful thread, al, but I have always found that kicking the crotch is effective.

  382. Jeff, that’s a great idea; the thread leader has comment-tormentor-stomp privileges. But Thor was attacking Karl in another poster’s thread (where Karl was also commenting). Nassty, subtle digs. Karl seems above such things for the most part.

    Needed, for Thor: darning needles, or a dragonfly.

  383. Not to prolong this pitiful thread, al, but I have always found that kicking the crotch is effective.

    See, that’s a form of fighting right there cynn. Good on ya! And pitiful thread? This thread has everything. I think it’s a monument.

  384. I have always found that kicking the crotch is effective.

    I have found that strategy will result in being stuck up to the ankle in twat.

    Really limits your mobility and ruins shoes.

  385. Can I sing yet?

  386. I understand that, serr8d. But that puts the onus on thor not to do something that would, for instance, put Dan in an awkward position.

    It’s GENIUS!

    (the capitalization was for cynn. no need to thank me, dear).

  387. I think it’s time to whup out that Barry White for Karl. Bring SeXXY back.

    BTW, excellent compro-plan, Jeff.

  388. Comment by alppuccino on 8/7 @ 8:38 pm #
    And pitiful thread? This thread has everything. I think it’s a monument.

     

    Send a copy over.  We’ll make room.

  389. al: far be it for me to be judgmental. This thread made me sad, because a lot of people who might have otherise made me admire them (because I’m out of their league) rather melted down. Doesn’t inspire much hope.

  390. happy – the “client” here is Jeff G. And if I am not mistaken, it is he who has made a living of sorts with his tender, sweet-loving, good-naturedness…. did he think he was the only one? If so, what does that tell you?

    It tells me that if you’d put just a quarter of the energy into doing it right the first time as you do into defensiveness, this whole post wouldn’t have happened.

    Everyone’s fucking busy, Enoch. I’m sitting in a hotel room in Yorktown, working right this second, while my wife and kids are sleeping in Orlando, wondering if I’ll ever be allowed to return. Here’s the secret to keeping your word, responsibly: if you’re going to break your word, communicate. If you break your word and communicate, there will be grief. If you break your word and fail to communicate, there will be (and in fact, has been) a shitstorm.

    Free advice. Probably won’t be taken, though.

  391. So maybe I can hum it.

  392. Did somebody say hummer?

  393. Oooh, oooh, I’m next!

  394. WHO NEEDS A NUT!!!!

  395. Mr Pink can fuck himself raw with a frozen swordfish.

    This made me snort Sam Adams Honey Porter out of my nose, but I was still grateful for the laugh.

    Gives a whole new meaning to “it has a nice nose”.

  396. If you break your word and communicate, there will be grief.

    This might normally be true, Slart, but the fact of that matter is, Tony and I were super cognizant that Matt was doing us a favor, so we tried very hard to get in touch with him, see if he needed help, and — when that didn’t work — made it quite clear if he was too busy he could beg off the project (sorry, “project” — to Matt, this is hardly worth a sniff) and there would be no hard feelings.

    I have been thrust into the position of proxy here — and as Eliot said upthread, I felt like I had let Tony down, having vouched for Matt in the first place — which is why I expressed my displeasure in the first place.

    Without naming names.

    And as it turns out, Matt has now admitted he sent me this…uh, in the works mockup, without first looking at it, something that he doesn’t do with paying clients. It also is, as I’ve been told subsequently, a base Joombla implementation that took no time at all. Couple that with his brusque email telling us that the site could be taken no further, and, well, see the post that started all this.

    So you see, what I wrote in the thread was accurate. And it expressed not only my displeasure, but the disappointment of all those who had spent a lot of time doing the behind the scenes work that can only be revealed at the rollout for the new site.

    That because of my accurate depiction of events I woke up this morning to being called a cunt and so forth — and that I’ve spent the remainder of the day being told via email how “lame” I am, how damaged I am as a soul — is ironic, given that, to those who know what’s been going on, I’ve been very accommodating, very patient, and oftentimes the stopgap between angry frustration and those who have caused it.

  397. Note to Matt from the granddaughter of Mildred Aseltine

    You are in the wrong. Period. No arguments. No defense. No “but he said…!”

    You.Are.Wrong.

    When it takes exposing your wrongness in public to get you to respond, don’t take offense, you asked for it, you are responsible for it.

    Period.

    So.grow.up.

  398. Note to Dan

    Was your brother raised in a barn?

    ~Grandma Mildred

  399. I think it comes from being raised on the internets. I can’t even begin to imagine talking go a client that way, regardless of the circumstance.

  400. B Moe

    it’s the death of shame

    people who should be groveling for their trespass are OFFENDED if someone has to point out their transgression

    [shakes head]

  401. So you see, what I wrote in the thread was accurate

    I’m not saying otherwise, Jeff. I pretty much assume that it is accurate.

    What I attempted to convey was this: if Matt had, for instance, responded to any of your communications in the last few weeks with something like: sorry, dude, but I just can’t do it. I know I said I would and all, but my workload just doesn’t permit any time for doing pro bono work right now, you might be angry with him. But that anger would be between you and him, and there’d be none of this rage at the shoddiness of the work combined with the complete lack of communication preceding it.

    So, what I was attempting to say was something like: the time to be communicating a lot with someone you’ve given your word to is pretty much always. Sometimes you can’t keep your word, and you have to clean it up. Cleaning it up, though, doesn’t EVER include calling the person you have a promise to a cunt or a whiner.

    I know this is none of my business, but it’s actually a shock to encounter someone whose integrity is more shipwrecked than my own, and who stands to learn a lot from someone like me. It’s a bit like repeatedly falling off that boulder in Eldorado Canyon, and encountering someone who can’t even climb stairs.

  402. Heh.

    Well, there wouldn’t have been hard feelings. There would have been relief, because we would have at least known where we stood and how to move forward. But it’s water under the bridge now. Sometimes to get someone’s attention you have to eat a few omelets.

    Bill Shakespeare said that, I think. Only in iambic pentameter.

  403. OT: if a kitchenette is a small kitchen, and a dinette is a small dining room, what is an omelette a small version of?

  404. Can I sing yet?

    I got it covered. craptastically.

  405. I always wondered if Karl was really Karl Rove. Thought that would be kinda’ cool if he really was. I would surmise he’s not Karl Rove though.

  406. wow. that’s really more beautiful than spooky.

  407. for real, wow

  408. Huh? Did somebody call my name?

  409. Great, I killed this thing off finally.

  410. As Jeff has chosen to drag our off-blog discussion on-blog again, folks might as well get the entire conversation. After Jeff e-mailed, asking me to phone him, I responded as follows:

    At this point, I would prefer e-mail. It not only would cause me to be more thoughtful, but also would ensure that we are communicating at times of mutual convenience. Having stopped by pw today, I noticed that you seem to be busy with a number of things.

    Jeff’s reply:

    I can’t carry on extended conversations via email. I don’t have the patience, and my hands are torn up at the moment, so typing is a chore.

    If you have the time or inclination, give me a call at xxx-xxx-xxxx. I’m available pretty much any time to answer the phone.

    If you prefer not to, that’s okay, too.

    Jeff then immediately typed comment #362, which reduced this exchange to: “I contacted Karl today, but he doesn’t wish to speak to me by phone at this point. So I have little hope.”

    He also typed his proposal that I delete thor’s abusive comments on my threads, which was already tried, and resulted in thor taking digs at me in the threads of others, as noted in comment #382. Jeff seems to be of the opinion that a method that relies on thor not behaving like a vile jackass on other threads is a workable solution. I respectfully disagree, and I think thor’s behavior over the past week — after Jeff publicly announced he was refusing to ban thor — supports my position.

    Moreover, the proposed solution does not address the underlying issue, which is that allowing thor to smear me as a racist on a near-daily basis is precisely the sort of thing I always thought Protein Wisdom existed to oppose. As Rick Moran put it last week:

    But the intent of branding me with the scarlet “R” of racist is not simply to inflict pain but rather to stifle and cut off debate. There is no answer I can give to the charge, no proof I can offer, no words that would prove otherwise. The charge simply hangs there, tarring me and discrediting what I write in the minds of some who, although fair minded about most things, might buy into the liberal narrative and wonder if subconsciously I am some kind of closet klansman.

    Denials only give credence to the charge. Having to disavow you are a racist gives the battle to your opponent because anything you might say to defend yourself can be twisted and deliberately misconstrued as more evidence of racism. On the other hand, silence denotes assent in many people’s minds so not saying anything is as good as being forced to walk around wearing that scarlet “R” on your bodice.

    This is not a question of whining about the unfairness of it all. I am pointing out a fact relevant to the debating of issues in this campaign and the relative merits of the two candidates…

    ***

    It is the major reason we can’t have an intelligent discussion about race in this campaign or at any time.

    Compare that with what Jeff wrote above in comment #163:

    I did not “alienate” Karl. I had to chose between banning a longtime commenter who happens to be tight with another contributor, and appeasing Karl’s desire to ban said commenter for making charges that everyone here knows (and pointed out each time) were ridiculous.

    I would disagree that it was “pointed out each time,” but that is of little relevance to the larger issue that Jeff overlooks in his narrative of his refusing to “appease” me.

    Anyway, that’s where the gap remains, which is why I preferred that the discussion take place via e-mail. I would apologize for subjecting everyone here to another round of this, but it seems that what I write — or my silence — will be held against me. So I thank you for your forebearance.

  411. want Karl

  412. This all kind of is teh suxXor

  413. A vote, I think, would find this island with one less viking.

  414. I just wanted to say I am a huge fan of yours Karl and hope to continue reading your work whenever you find a home.
    Thank you.

  415. Take care, Karl. I don’t get the forbearance shown to thor, given his behavior.

  416. Karl, I don’t see where Jeff’s open door policy of allowing anyone Assholes On Parade ™ is incompatible with your contributing here and being enjoyed by many of us. I realize it’s selfish for me to say that when you apparently were attacked(I don’t read the comments on every thread, so I’m in the dark as to the specific event that triggered this).

    Can we just stipulate to thor (and a few others who are allowed to continue to comment here) having exhibited asshattery and move on?

  417. Me again?

    Look, KK, as I’ve explained numerous times, while Barack Obama was battling a white candidate whose entire career is strewn with sinper-fire-like lies and worst,and who, if you read the Star report, has engaged in sleazy if not unlawful activities throughout her time in the public spotlight, you mypopically posted slimy, race-biased opinion after opinion and unsupported allegation after allegation against Barack Obama at a 10-to-1 (at least) rate versus anything against Hillary.

    “The weight of your words,” if I may quote myself, is what I based my opinion of you upon. I didn’t call you a “racist” since I returned from my three-week vacation, and when I did call you a racist I also added the caveat the I believed all people of all races are undeniably racist to some extent. Pointing to you own choices of narratives I said made you look racist even you were not.

    Don’t try and go victim-weasel now. You started deleting totally innocent posts of mine for no reason than to try and piss me off. As I’ve said, you want to bring the hammer down on someone, i.e. Barack Obama, then be willing to have it brought down on you occasionally. Understand the game you’ve chosen to play.

  418. No one else seemed to find them racist but you thor. Must be because your so much smarter than the rest of us.

  419. This. Really. Sucks.

    I’m having a difficult time grasping the notion that there is no solution to this little kerfuffle. Thor’s commentary vis a vis Karl has been consistently despicable in it’s personal libel. I have a tough time visualizing anyone putting up with that sort of character assassination, including Jeff, over a period of several months.

    While Karl and Jeff continue to be at odds, there is one guy who can solve this problem once and for all.

    thor

    So how about it, thor? Is it really that important to you to have relatively unfettered ability to ad homenim a commentator just because he writes sourced commentary against your candidate? Will you be content to allow everyone else to be deprived of Karl’s work just so you can exercise a fevered racialist dream of victimization?

    What say you, thor? For the greater good, da?

  420. Jesus, Karl.

    I wasn’t trying to hold anything against you, nor was I trying to bring our offline business online. People asked, and I responded in a short, condensed version of events.

    As to the larger narrative here, my site has always fought to take back the meaning of words. In my estimation, thor’s charges of racism, when they are appended to posts that clearly show no such thing, are instructive in just how the very mechanisms you use Rick Moran to point out actually take shape.

    I have been called a racist repeatedly. Ditto a homophobe. But rather than seek to make that problem disappear artificially, I strive to point out what exactly the person who makes the charge is doing. And I have done this when the subject was Tony Snow, or Captain Ed, or Bill Bennett, and on and on and on. THAT is the way I oppose such behavior, not by engaging in its bowdlerization. Sunlight being the best disinfectant and all.

    As for the literalism Karl now wishes to deploy — okay, Karl, maybe the fact that someone calling you a racist is ludicrous wasn’t pointed out each time, but it was certainly pointed out enough to form a definite pattern; and maybe my use of “appease”, while not intended to be so, came across as fraught — I don’t know how to respond, except to point out that I can seize on such things as well (“reduced”), but what the hell for?

    I am getting used to being the villain on my own site these days — all because I have to balance the sensibilities of various people, which, frankly, just ain’t my job.

    I tried to come up with a solution that would force each poster to decide what is over the line and what is not — and so in turn force each poster to consider the feelings of fellow posters when reacting to certain behaviors — but evidently that, like so much else I do here, isn’t quite good enough.

    No, I have to “choose.” Which is ridiculous. I am not Solomon, I am not God, and I am not comfortable making those kinds of choices. But does anybody concern themselves with how difficult this is for me?

    Of course not. It’s all, “you chose thor, bring back Karl!” Well you know what? That’s bullshit. You simply don’t know what it takes to run a highly visible site like this, especially once you have competing egos making demands on you that you didn’t sign up to mediate.

    I emailed Karl yesterday and offered to call him because it is far easier to have a back and forth on the phone than it is by way of email. I likewise noted he could call me. I reached out in good faith, and I had hoped to discuss a proposed solution.

    So yes, I tried to contact Karl. For his part, he said he’d prefer to discuss things by email; I told him to call me if he has the time and inclination. Then, in response to questions about him here, I noted that I held out little hope for our coming to a reconciliation — particularly given his desire to avoid any kind of “in person” communication.

    That was a pretty short and accurate description of things.

    Now, I know the big flavor of the month here is Karl pity. But I should think that the opportunity I gave Karl here to reach such a large audience would have at least merited a courtesy phone call.

    I was wrong. You all can continue to heap the blame on me, but from now on I’m ALL you’ll be heaping blame on.

    Effective immediately, no more guest bloggers.

    Which means this site will likely die in my absence, but I’d rather that happen than to relieve the last couple days, where I’ve been forced to hold my tongue for the most part against Dan’s brother (lest, as he emailed me this morning, he “nukes” Tony’s entire site); dance around Dan’s feelings; defend thor’s antics (which are reprehensible, but useful, I think, as a way into what this blog is REALLY about — not the simplistic misunderstanding of what goes on here that Karl has, to my consternation and disbelief, chosen to embrace.

    My son starts pre-school on August 18th or thereabouts. I want to write a novella, and I have to begin serious training for an upcoming project. After that, I hope to be back here regularly, relieved, finally, of all the stresses of having to balance so many egos.

    I thank all the guest bloggers for their contributions. And they are certainly welcome to take up residence at the pub — meaning there would be very little change, in terms of content, should they take me up on that offer.

    But playing the diplomat is, quite clearly, not my strong suit — and taking abuse from all sides for not being able to handle the task is, in a word, not what I signed up for.

    I take plenty of abuse from my supposed enemies. Getting it from my purported allies only serves to remind me that I’m pretty much alone — and that, when all is said and done, that’s how I work best.

    I’ll likely bump this up to its own post later today. First, though, I have a number of ties that are in need of a good, final severing.

    To those readers I lose over this, I’m sorry. But as I’ve noted before, your favorite posters here will likely land on their feet elsewhere.

    For my part, I’ll probably just keep sitemeter turned off, and ignore trackbacks.

    Comments will be left open for now.

  421. Well, based upon thor’s self serving chest thumping in #417. never mind.

    Thanks thor, thanks a whole bunch.

    As much as I love Jeff and Dan and Darleen and Karl and the greatest commentators on the tubes, I think I’ve had enough of what is turning into petty playground bullshit the overall satisfaction level has dropped.

    *sigh* Maybe it’s time to take up a new hobby. I hear needlepoint is very relaxing.

  422. Thor, you’re a lying crapweasel. You have no “totally innocent posts”; what you have are needling barbs. Your ‘KK’, above, is illustrative of just how you roll.

    You’re not worth what one might find attached to Karl’s shoe sole, if he were to step into a dark Moscow alley. Don’t invite comparisons. Your game is meretricious.

  423. I’ve just moved into a new condo (under Clintonian sniper-fire!, except my Clintonian sniper fire was a tad more real than Hankellry’s, so I’ve not been the best of moods lately, granted). I’ve a lot to unbox. My internet is working, this the first test at the new dig.

    I won’t have much time to play this coming week, especially if it concerns this on-going non-sense. So fear me not, go back to posting your half-baked conspiracies and anti-Obama half-truths. When I have time to post and if I think you’re being a partisan hack, I’ll call it as I see it. You’ll get no free ride. That’s all I can promise.

  424. I think your solution is right Jeff…….and no worries, take your time. Your thoughts are worth the waiting for. We’ll be around when you are around. Word will get out.

  425. Oh, so you mean you’ll be shitting on the rug again in no time, thor? Great.

  426. This is really hurtful actually. I really cared.

  427. care. Not past tense.

  428. You saw some other way this could be, hf? I really haven’t, since people are what they are and don’t change very fast if they change at all.

  429. I really love this place, so I hope everything works out for the best. Beyond that there isn’t really much I can say that would be helpful. It isn’t about me in any case, and if it was then I would likely formally apologize for my knuckle-dragging, bible thumping, racist, homophobic, neo-conish ways and invite you to bite me.

    Thanks for all the free ice cream over the years. I don’t plan on leaving until thrown out, but I should probably go outside once in a while in any case.

  430. Pingback: An announcement, long overdue

  431. Lookee, thor-bashers, I get snark-smacked more than anyone here. It doesn’t bother me, shit, half the time the comedy value is not enough to make me laugh at myself. The thor-smack started when I didn’t go along with every known anti-Obama opinion. I’m not even a Leftist, Liberal, Commie-lover, nor do I suck Obama’s wang.

    If you like to joke that way, learn to take a few. I couldn’t care less.

    Karl, if you want to post, post. You seem to have some people who enjoy reading your …. whatever it is, I know what I call it.

    Don’t be a thin-skinned one, and don’t dismiss people who offer counter-opinions with by deleting them or telling ‘em to suck on it. That’s weak.

    Nishi is a nut, imho, but I respect her for get-in-the-ring-and-swingedness. Learn from her.

  432. But there are heartening things. I will make bullets points.

    * Jeff says thor is reprehensible. I hope Karl hears that part, cause that’s real language.

    * also, Jeff did reach out to Karl. This says a lot.

    But

    The dynamics here serve to reward and validate thor. This does not resonate happily with “the larger narrative here” where PW has always fought to take back the meaning of words. Score one for the word stealing people is what this feels like. This is the mostest disheartening thing.

  433. is enough = is not enough

    Freud!

    Laptop keyboards suck, I have to get my office re-built. It’s crimping my style!

  434. But to be clear I think thor and Jeff are right about the not banning.

  435. And style, baby, is where it’s at!

  436. I suppose Thor could be much, much worse. Compared to some what’s out there.

    “What makes a bad person? Or a good person? How do you know if you’re a bad person?”

    “I’d say empathy is probably a factor.”

  437. Well sure, sdferr. Dan and darleen can still post and Jeff could reach out to new guest bloggers like Ric and psycho and there can be ferment and growth and happy commentings and a thriving brand. Maybe even a new temporary logo… Protein Wisdom … The Sabbatical … to clue people in that things are maybe messy and not business as usual and that this is an interregnum of sorts. Karl could still maybe contribute a couple posts a week or so, I think he’d find the dynamics were different like that. Many solutions.

  438. And also cranky and craig.

  439. and JHoward. :)

  440. And you happyfeet as well.

  441. Oh man, I was getting hopeful things would return to semi-normalcy, but emotions are running high.

    Karl’s posts with election coming up would be critical and insightful.

    Dan’s humor, Jeff’s dissection of the progressive community-based reality and Darleen’s observations on the absurdities found in the news every day make the blog a site not to be missed and the reason the left hates it.

    Perhaps reason will prevail with time.

    Oh, and Blue Oyster Cunt.

  442. oh. happy commentings was not meant as a solipsism or anything.

  443. “Lookee, thor-bashers, I get snark-smacked more than anyone here.”

    There’s a reason for that, rectum.

  444. “Don’t be a thin-skinned one, and don’t dismiss people who offer counter-opinions with by deleting them or telling ‘em to suck on it.”

    Thor – You weren’t offering counter-opinions, just insults.

  445. I must admit upfront that I know nothing of, really never have understood, brands. One of the things in the way of your proffered solution, I think, was the occasional free-floating “boss” vibe, which, well, I get the sense that Jeff is serious enough about his life that he finds it sufficiently time-consuming being the proper boss of himself (and son, etc.), let alone a bunch of other people, however earnest and well intentioned they may be. Is that a brand? Damned if I know.

  446. The original idea of guest bloggers almost two years ago was so Jeff could step away and take care of some important business. I think he assumed (rightly so IMO) that things could run themselves in his absence and would require little to nothing from his supply of energy. It was never meant to be permanent, and never meant to last this long. I think, however, that if things could’ve run themselves it would’ve been continued, but since they could not, he had to make a choice, which is I believe the same choice I would’ve made (given my limited understanding of things). You cannot move forward elsewhere when you have a big anchor slowing you down.

  447. I’m lost. First, he retires and now he says he’s the only here. How do you fans keep up with the drama? Is this how conservative politics works, i.e. a bunch of posers all tearing at each for glory and victimhood? Wow, no wonder we’re a forgotten portion of the body politic.

  448. Ooh, Learnedhand is back!

    That’s right, bitch. I’m a-comin for you and yours. FEAR THE DRAMA QUEEN’S MORE VICIOUS AND DIRECTED SIDE!

  449. (when I get around to it, I mean…)

  450. Oh, yes, learnedhand. PW is the soul of conservatism, and what you’re seeing is the essence of that political persuasion. Damned clever of you to pick up on it, I must say. Tool.

  451. Heh heh heh. He said tool!

  452. Hey, how do I get me a gig at the pub? Since that’s where all the cool kids will be hanging out for a while until dad comes back and locks up the liquor cabinet. I could hang a pseudonym on me like PDiddles or Sharkbait or Weaselbowel. Or Karl Rove’s Omelette.

  453. Pablo guy, since you are, as usual, following Jeff like a little bitch, could you tell me what his ass tastes like? Has there ever Pablo, you sycophantic, obsequious, half-witted little ape, when you have typed “what he said” in reference to Jeff. Does you deference know no bounds, little man?

    To the rest, I apologize for the language. In my normal visits here, I try to stay above the fray, but geez, this pablo is the bee’s knees. Every post on this thread is some version “Jeff’s right, Matt” or “I agree with Jeff” or “Jeff completes me.” Listen, Pablo, jeff can write for himself, as he has shown in his 400 comments from today. He doesn’t need your help, you little wanker.

    Pablo, I’m sure this isn’t the first time you’ve heard this, but you are an annoying human being

  454. Whereas you, Learnedhand, draw me to your cyberbosom with the power of a jillion magnets!

    Lilacs! It smells of Lilacs!

  455. Lilacs? I could have sworn I put jasmine on this morning.

  456. I try to stay above the fray,

    Bullshit. It is the standard leftist troll, with multiple ID’s. Unless above the fray means Kos talking point generator.

  457. learnedhand, I’m sure this isn’t the first time you’ve heard this but you’re an insufferable little twat and your opinion is worth exactly zero here. Go fuck yourself.

  458. Has there ever Pablo, you sycophantic, obsequious, half-witted little ape, when you have typed “what he said” in reference to Jeff.

    Although, if you’d like to drop in just long enough to decode this nugget of incomprehensibility, that might be sort of fun.

  459. Actually, Pablo, quite the opposite, as i now have three people interested in my opinion.

    Let’s continue in that vein: when have you ever disagreed with Jeff, you miserable little beast? I’m thinking never.

    Oh, JD, welcome. You seem like the fair-minded sort.

    Pablo, if you don’t me complimenting you, your ability to type one handed while fellating important people and pleasuring yourself is something to behold. It’s true, your gift for name-calling suffers in comparison to Jeff, JD, OI, BBH, thor, certainly Matt, oh, hell most of the people on this page, but we get it: you really heart Jeff. And, as the multiple personality Mr. Pink demonstrated on another thread, it’s not really how well one expresses himself/herself; it’s how closely they hew to the group orthodoxy.

    For that, kudos to you.

    P.S. I was going to mention that you whine like a little girl too, but I see where this Karl fellow out-whined even you just up-thread, so you can only win the silver, festering boil on the ass of humanity that you are.

    Unfortunately, I won’t be around the rest of the weekend (some of us have personal lives), but I suppose you can feel free to get a gang of toughs together and savage me in the comments all weekend long. Gee, there’s nothing a gang of internet goons likes more than that! C’est la vie

    It must gall you to know I’ve won jeff over with lilacs. After all you’ve been fighting so hard to win him with nothing but a fighting spirit and a little decolletage.

  460. You started deleting totally innocent posts of mine for no reason than to try and piss me off.

    Sounds good enough for me. Sure, there are probably better reasons for deletion, but that one’s good enough for the troll in question.

  461. Actually, Pablo, quite the opposite, as i now have three people interested in my opinion.

    Is that a personal best? Mark your calendar. Take a photo. And bite me.

    Let’s continue in that vein: when have you ever disagreed with Jeff, you miserable little beast?

    Here’s the thing. You can disagree with someone without being disagreeable. I do that with people I like, and have done so with Jeff here quite recently. I’d dig up a link, but here’s the other thing. I really don’t give a shit what you think and I have no interest in convincing you of anything. I just checked my list of people I have some concern for and you’re not on it. I like Jeff, I like his work and I like the community here at pw. But you? Um, no.

    P.S. I was going to mention that you whine like a little girl too, but I see where this Karl fellow out-whined even you just up-thread, so you can only win the silver, festering boil on the ass of humanity that you are.

    I like Karl too. You, however, can go fuck yourself. Unless you’d like to point to an instance of me whining. Then maybe I’ll play with you like the ball of yarn that you are.

    Kisses!

  462. Nice article.. Tony Romo, where did he come from?

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