I always wanted to be fluent in another language. I studied Spanish in school, passed my HS Regents exam back in the day, but never got it down. I never learned Italian because of the racism that my grandparents faced when they came to the US in 1915. Studying a new language in school actually helps a person “think†better as far as I’m concerned. Maybe that’s why right wingers hate Obama’s idea so much.
Well, John, I do speak Italian and Spanish. We’re of mostly Bogtrotter derivation, but my brothers, one of whom is also fluent in Spanish, jokingly call me a WOP Wannabe, because I like Italian so much. You’re right about one thing: it helps you think better, because it gives you access to a different maniera de ser, as it were.
I don’t hate Obama’s idea, but I find it laughable that that’s what he has to say about education. I find it laughable in part because he hasn’t personally cared to pick up another language (despite what some shills have tried to say about his fluency in Indonesian), and because somehow Harvard University permitted him to graduate without some degree of fluency in a foreign language. And I find you laughable for the same reason.
Even stupid Bush knows a foreign language well enough to get by.
I sure wish I could play the hammer dulcimer. Wish someone had forced me to do it, because I guess I’ll never work up the ambition to go find out how.
You know what would be fun? To compare the number of Americans who’ve learned a foreign language based on party affiliation. Of course, you’d just say that it was a matter of privilege if it worked out to your opponents’ advantage, you lazy bum.
I lived in Italy for a year in the 80’s, in Vicenza, and became fairly conversant in Italian… for awhile..
These days my mastery of Italian amounts to a keen ability identify drinks and cup sizes at the local Torrefazione Italia and to fluently rattle off the phrase “Ciao Bella!” to the hot teen baristas in lieu of a monetary tip…
Cool. I lived in Ferrara.
Neighbor! I was there in ’87-88. You?
89-90. Just missed.
Fluent in Spanish, lived in Colombia for 15 months and in Spain for two. I’ve taken classes in Latin, Portuguese, and Japanese. At BYU, I had roomies from China, Finland, India, South Korea, and New Zealand. My brother did Italy for 2 years, one BIL did Chile and another Brazil.
That’s right: Mormon missionaries go all over the world, learn a different language, learn to live like natives (to the extent possible), and come home knowing more about foreign lands than most other Americans. That’s what happens when you go door-to-door and talk to hundreds of people about the Deep Issues that concern them. It also happens that “them furners” aren’t that hard to understand, once you can speak their language, because they sound more intelligent than they do in English. Funny that. And funny how their wants and needs don’t track all that well with Leftist cant.
Here in Utah, there are tons of language immersion programs in the schools. My cousin’s daughter just finished a Latin immersion, and I’ve known of Chinese and Spanish immersion programs.
And guess what? Utah’s the reddest state in the union. So Barack and his snobbery can just step off, do a jig, and bite themselves on the forehead.
Maybe if he comes to SLC, he’ll see that it doesn’t look like Napoleon Dynamite, either. (Yeah, OK, it was filmed in Preston ID, but BHO doesn’t know the difference.)
I partied with a group of really pretty, really hot Mormon girls in SLC once when my SF team was passing through on the way to some training..
That’s it… I’m just sayin is all..
Did Obama say or imply that Democrats would speak more foreign languages than Republicans? Or is that just the “Our team is better than yours!” kind of attitude that seems inescapable every where I travel in this here blogosphere?
No. John Amato said that Republicans were pissing themselves over it because they like to be stupid.
BTW, when the Olympics came to SLC in 2002, it wasn’t all that hard to find translators for the foreign press and stuff.
Yup, Baracky, come over here and say that, would’ja? We can tell you where to go in dozens and dozens of languages.
If I can figure out how to get through this political season without beating a congressman to death with a baseball bat (that’s a form of communication, n’cest passey, right?) I fully intend to take Russian via UVU or whatever extension program offers the best value for the fee. I’m at that time of life where I need to do something crazy I’ve always wanted to do. And this would keep the baseball bat in the closet, so it’s win – win AND I get to sweat through Tolstoy. On his turf, this time around.
I took two years of Latin in High School. I can read an Italian or Spanish newspaper and catch most of what’s happening. Learned and lost more Japanese and Korean than I thought at the time… learned the magic words (please, thank you, how much, not now, yes again please, etc) in Tagolog, Thai, and pigdin.
I know how to order beer in a dozen languages.
And also to say, “I don’t understand.”
Don’t they speak Malay or Javanese in Indonesia?
Ich verstehen Sie nicht. Very handy. Belgians tend not to get it though.
Prolly, but his shills were defending him after he made those remarks, stating that it’s clear that he speaks Indonesian from his autobiography, blah, blah, blah, when people wondered whether O! himself spoke a foreign language.
What a boob
SEXIST!!1n!!n1
I wonder if his shills know where to find Indonesia on a map….
What a boob
SEXISTSEXY!!1n!!n1um….
Portuguese – fluent, Spanish – good. I spoke workable Norwegian at one time, too.
Obama pode enfiar isso no cu’.
Goodness. I’ve been to Italy for vacation and I can’t even imagine living there. How on earth can you leave?
What is it like to live there? Are they as wonderful with expats as they are with tourists?
I lived in a Ferrari for a while after the pasta factory went under.
But it’s a painful subject.
RTO,
The Belgies might not understand since that’s not proper German. I think you meant, “Ich verstehe Sie nicht.” Correct usage of verstehen would indicate that you said something like, “I don’t you understand.”
Correct conjugation is our friend!
That’s all I be saying…
You are correct LC, but I’m referring to a time in Afghanistan when I embarassed myself by trying to speak to the “Germans” on a guard mount at Kabul Airport. Some country’s flags just aren’t distinctive enough, know what I mean?
So, you know, thanks for zinging me again. :)
“I don’t hate Obama’s idea, but I find it laughable that that’s what he has to say about education.”
Plus it was a non sequitur used for misdirection. The only thing his comment about learning another language had to do with the debate about immigrants learning English is both had the word ‘language’ in them. Otherwise, there is no logical connection between the issues.
Q: “people say immigrants should learn Englishâ€Â
A: “I say we should learn X before we go on about what immigrants should learn.â€Â
Yeah, Obambi, I got yer bilingualism right here.
미국대사관 앞까지 갑시다!
It’s been 20 years… I hope I spelled that right.
Ok, I just don’t get the arguments about bilingualism.
It’s not political, it’s practical and beneficial to all to know another language.
That goes for immigrants and people who were born here.
Why exactly do some have a problem with this? I truly don’t get it.
Usted americanos están stupi. Usted habla de recesión y preocuparse por los tomates. Aprovecho mi a la familia Six Flags, el doble del parque y la compra de diez dólares embudo pastel! América es gran.
ne razoomiem
The spelling is phonetic, but anyway that’s about all I remember of Bosniac/Serbo/Croatian. I also knew some Albanian (or Elbonian if you like Dilbert), but that’s all gone too from disuse. Same thing happened with the Arabic I learned from two years in Iraq, language just doesn’t stay with me if I don’t use it on a daily basis. Since english is the only language needed in the USA (pretty much) it just doesn’t make sense to put a lot of effort into learning a language you won’t ever really need, that will be gone in a short time if it is not used. Basically, Obama can kiss my ass.
ok, topsecret, now you’re just a show off!
And now I have to go trnaslate.
pizdets. yobanuta sukka. pudnemaya dakoi, blat.
I wonder what happened to me? I have learned (and forgotten) Japanese, German, and Italian (army brat). I am currently studying Russian and have a basic familiarity with it.
And yet I am a proud member of the VRWC. Must have been a recessive gene, right bitch?
Was that bitch directed towards me?
I wasn’t trying to mock anyone, I’m very curious about this particular issue.
I think it’s a very good thing for people to know more than one language.
haha.
topsecret, I cheated.
And you should never,ever,ever pay $10 for a funnel cake. Are you friggen kidding?
And I’m not sure which Six Flags you went to, but if it was the one in Valencia, CA I hope you paid less than half price. They got deals at the park park!
lunar
unless you concur with Amato blat opinion that “right wingers” hate Captain Bullshit’s ideas so much because we are monolingual and thus never learned think well.
What is it with these lefties being so convinced–in the complete absence of any supporting evidence–that they are so smart. Their policies are almost without exception disastrous for all concerned–save the governing class and a sanctimonious ultra rich.
icon,
Perhaps I did not explain my position very well.
I think if you take political parties, politicians, and partisan emotions out of the argument, we are left with the educational idea that having knowledge of more than one language gives you an enormous advantage over people who know only one language.
I really think it’s to everyone’s benefit and I don’t get the political undertones. Most people will never go on to be mathematicians but we don’t stop their math education at basic addition and subtraction. Knowledge is good.
I could have saved topsecret a bundle!
And I admire you for knowing even knowing one word in so many languages.
It’s a skill and a valuable one and I want it to be something our young students here are encouraged to study.
No wait. After trying to translate some of that I take back my language compliments.
I speak jive.
.
.
not fluent, though. Dig it, holmes?
gebrauchshund, you are so right. I agree you lose it when you don’t use it. But there are lots of opportunities out there for people who know more than one language and I think they will only increase in the future.
I’m not suggesting a new educational mandate. I just think it’s a valuable skill to know more than one language and it would give students here a leg up. I think we are lagging behind in this area.
I know we lag in other areas as well and I just hate to see education as something we can be partisan about.
Knowledge is good.
And I need these kids to have gainful employment or I’ll never be able to retire!
“And I need these kids to have gainful employment or I’ll never be able to retire!”
single mom, huh? That’s tough. Bush doesn’t care. It’s this damn war.
I feel you puff.
(I forgot. I’m fluent in sarcasm.)
You’re not really fluent in sarcasm if you don’t pick on up it
from others.
You’re not really fluent in sarcasm if you don’t pick on up it
from others.
Amen sister.
You know what lunarpuff? I’m going to go all Obama on you and refine my position. I had made the “single mom” joke based on your previous comment about being single, but I had not read that you’re going through a tough time right now. So what was intended as a typical alppuccino playful sarcastic jab, came off as a quasi Jesse Jackson kick in the she-nuts for which I am truly sorry.
I like lunarpuff. I support lunarpuff.
Heeheehee!
Alppuccino,I was just going to post that I had no idea what you meant you meant by the “Amen sister” but I thought it was an excellent comment and I enjoyed it.
I am going thru a bad spot and I am so thankful I don’t have kids cuz seriously dude then I would be one unstable anxiety attack who is shaping the future generation. I have a newfound respect for parents all over the spectrum. Thank God I’m not in charge of the little ones.
I want the little rascals to be gainfully employed so someday I get a nice little check from Social Security!
I want the little rascals to be gainfully employed so someday I get a nice little check from Social Security!
Typical lunarpuff.
.
.
KIDDING!
What Obama is missing is that in Europe it’s hard to go very far without crossing a national border. Hell, it’s possible in some areas of the US to drive 8 hours and still be in the same state. Over There, you’d need a passport to go so far.
It has been quite a while since lunapuff posted here. She is cool.
And, boobies !
BECAUSE OF THE RACISM!
I’d wonder how often that excuse comes up in Amato’s world, but I suspect I already know the answer. Is there nothing that blaming others can’t do?
I disagree. It does not give someone “an enormous advantage” over people who know only one language. Sure, it’s nice, it’s a bonus, but the language kids should be learning is English. (That’s not some sort of nativist comment, I’m saying many American kids have a poor grasp of English.) English is the important language. I’d wager the most common second language taught in European countries is English.
I’d put secondary language instruction only slightly above art, music, and physical education. Yes, these are all important things our kids should be exposed to, but nobody expects every kid to be a musician, or every kid to be an athlete.
Not that this has much to do with Obama’s statement. As Thomass pointed out, it is a bit of a non sequitur. Here’s the statement:
Problem: Immigrant children need education in English to be productive members of society.
Obama’s solution: Forget about them, and increase Spanish education.
It’s not just a matter of worrying about your own kids, and forgetting about other people’s kids. Not when we’re talking about public schools. Obama is saying we should use our already limited education resources to teach more Spanish instead of English. It’s ridiculous.
His grandparents faced racism in 1915 so he, years later, decided not to learn a foreign language. That is the most self-serving excuse for academic laziness that I have heard in a long time. It is a perfect example of the concept of ‘rationalization’.
Studying a new language in school actually helps a person “think†better as far as I’m concerned.
Oh yea? Well, my husband speaks fluent German, yet I’m smarter. Explain THAT.
What I find amazing, is that I used to know French. In college, for reals. I even wrote rather long papers in French. I found ’em a few months back. It was rather depressing, actually.
Indeed, DF. If “…they’ll learn English…” why are drivers manuals and ballots printed is 7 languages in California?
Luna,
I think if you take political parties, politicians, and partisan emotions out of the argument, we are left with the educational idea that having knowledge of more than one language gives you an enormous advantage over people who know only one language.
And, nobody is denying that. Instead, we are pointing out that Obama made his asinine comment in order to NOT HAVE TO ANSWER THE ACTUAL QUESTION ASKED OF HIM.
the idea that requiring immigrants who come to America must learn English is somehow the equivalent of believing that nobody should learn a second language is so idiotic, so ignorant, and so disengenuous, that those of us on the right are making fun of it.
And, for what it is worth, Americans’ tend to be more fluent in a second language than most europeans. Despite popular notions, must Europeans are not fluent in more than one language. The elite are, but the working man? not so much. We believe they are b/c when we travel or when we do business w/ europeans, the people we are dealing with speak English. thus, we assume they all speak English. Not so.
Considering we are only close to one country w/ another language (not counting French in Canada), the fact that so many Americans do know another language is quite impressive.
So, not only was Obama’s answer to the question about requiring immigrants to learn english a cowardice act of not being able to answer a simple question, it was wrong in that assumed that Americans (a) cannot speak a foreign language; and (b) believe that speaking a foreign language is stupid or wrong.
So, his arrogance (considering that he, himself does not seem to speak a foreign langauge) and his cowardice – not being willing to answer a very simple question, shined through yet again in his response.
Moreover, the fact that so many people are defending his statement by arguing against the straw-man that (a) conservatives cannot speak foreign languages and (b) don’t want anyone else to is asinine.
Luna – let me reverse the question for you. Shouldn’t immigrants who come to America have to learn English?
That was basically the question asked of O!!!!!!. His answer was that we should all learn Spanish.
And, then comes this Amato character who claims that us evil right-wingers don’t want anyone to learn a foriegn language b/c we don’t want people to learn how to think better. Do you see how idiotic and insulting such a statement is? Do you see how stupid it is? Do you understand how his argument has nothing to do with what was asked of Obama or why the right makes fun of Obama’s answer?
Now do you understand where we are coming from?
I would also point out that learning a second language (after about 3rd grad) is kind of akin to learning music. Some people have the ear for it – others don’t. Not every kid can be a rocket scientist, and not every kid will become fluent in another language.
I know, I’m one of those “dumb” kids. I studies french in 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th grades. I took french for 4 semesters in college. I was never able to speak more than a few basic sentances and when someone actually speaks French to me I’m lost. Now, part of it is that I wasn’t really that interested in learning it so did not put in any extra effort, and part of it is that I was never “immersed” in it as I did not study abroad in France. But, it was always extremely difficult for me. I had no problem memorizing vocab and conjugation, and could usually translate written french pretty well – but proununciation and understanding spoken French was next to impossible for me. I simply do not have the ear for it (I’m also tone deaf and have no rythm, so music is pretty much a lost cause to – despite years of piano lessons).
Now, I am pretty damn smart in other areas – if I do say so myself – and have a graduate degree and practice in a profession. I’ve always wished that I was better at picking up another langauge and would love to be able to speak another language.
“Comment by lunarpuff on 7/16 @ 1:45 am #
Was that bitch directed towards me?
I wasn’t trying to mock anyone, I’m very curious about this particular issue.
I think it’s a very good thing for people to know more than one language – ”
lunarpuff,
I think you are missing the point.
I doubt if anyone here thinks that speaking more than one language is a bad thing. The shaft here is being pointed directly at O!’s butt for being such a vapid elitist and.
Hasta vagina.
Q: What did the Finnish man give his wife that was long and hard?
A: His last name.
“I studies french in 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th grades. I took french for 4 semesters in college..”
Me too.. Still couldnt speak it to save my life… In Paris I tried to get some help from a cop and he actually switched to English and told me my French sucked..
When the French switch to English you know you’re speaking the French equivalent of Hyper-Pikey..
What baffles me about Obama’s comment is that most school systems around the country already require two years of some foreign language, if not more, before graduation.
I’m sorry that Obama’s education was so pathetic over there in Indonesia, or wherever the heck he went to school, but the public schools here aren’t slack on foreign languages. Heck, even the public schools in Chicago require at least two years. I would have thought he’d know that, being an important political figure there and all.
I just wish I could learn the expression on the wine seller’s face when my wife bought a cheap bottle of French wine because she thought the picture on the bottle was cute… Strassbourg. You’d have thought the Germans had invaded again. That was right after we told him we liked German wines.
TaiChiWaWa: Warn me next time, that was funny. Cleaning coffee out of this keyboard, not so much.
At one time, Latin was required in most high schools. I took Latin, and several of my kids have taken Latin because our public schools offer it (even when we lived in Tennessee). I think it might be a good idea to go back to requiring at least a year or two of Latin. You learn the basic structure of language in general (e.g., verb tense and objects) that somehow gets missed in English classes. These skills will then be helpful should you desire or need to learn a foreign language later in life. Plus you have the added bonus of already knowing a lot of vocabulary should you start learning one of the many languages that are rooted in Latin. Oh, and it does help you with your English.
By the time I was in high school, Latin wasn’t even required in Catholic schools.
I took a half-semester of Latin in junior-high (public) school, but deci8ded to take German thereafter.
FWIW, I think I have retained more of the Latin.
I’m also mystified. I took 2 years of a language in high school and two years in college. I thought it was required for graduation. Has that changed?
I don’t know about foreign language requirements, but on the subject of public school standards, a few months ago the local paper here had a piece about the county spelling bee, in which an 8th-grader won by spelling “feud.”
When I was in the 8th grade my winning word was “indispensable.”
These days, anything but LOLspeak might be considered a foreign language.