…Or maybe you can, I really didn’t bother to check, if you want the truth. Still, NBC’s Kenneth Strickland is reporting that Obamalot is beginning to look a lot like any other pedestrian political clubhouse, with our self-styled “progressive” hero King taking steps to insulate himself from the very kind of progressive stances that will almost certainly hurt him among moderate voters, should Maverick Johnny choose to exploit them.
To wit:
The Senate is finally expected to wrap up the bill updating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act today, which includes the controversial provision of retroactive immunity for telecom companies facing lawsuit. While the bill splits Democrats, it’s expected to pass with united Republican support.
Obama will be back for today’s vote and has said he’ll support final passage.
Before final passage, there will be three efforts to either eliminate or weaken the immunity section of the bill. Those efforts will take the form of three amendments offered by Sens. Dodd/Feingold, Specter, and Bingaman. The key amendment is Dodd/Feingold, which simply removes immunity from the bill and would let the lawsuits proceed. Dodd/Feingold requires a simple majority for passage. Specter and Bingaman require 60 votes. All should fail.
Following the three amendment votes, there will be on procedural vote and then final passage. If, as expected, all the amendments fail and the underlying bill passes, it goes directly to the White House for the President’s signature.
The voting starts approximately 11:15 am ET, and everything on FISA should be wrapped up by 12:30 pm ET or so.
[…] Strickland also notes Obama’s seeming reversal on FISA: In December of last year, Obama’s office said in a written statement, “Senator Obama unequivocally opposes giving retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies… granting such immunity undermines the constitutional protections Americans trust the Congress to protect. Senator Obama supports a filibuster [blocking] of this bill, and strongly urges others to do the same.”
But last month when Democratic leaders cut a deal with the Bush Administration on wiretapping — a deal that places tighter restrictions on terrorist surveillance but still granted telecoms immunity — Obama dropped his defiant stance. While still acknowledging the Bush Administration, “has abused that authority and undermined the Constitution,” he said he’d support the bill.
In a written statement shortly after the House passed the compromise, Obama said of the bill, “while far from perfect, is a marked improvement over last year’s.” The statement went on to detail a various improvements in the bill, but ended with a reluctant acknowledgment that he’ll vote for it.
“It is not all that I would want. But given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the program…”
My, how pragmatic of the Lightworker.
Of course, the irony here is that conservatives long suspected Obama would act in just such a way: after all, he has the cult vote locked up by virtue of his otherworldly luminescence (which, if certain anonymous sources high in the government are to be believed, is clearly visible from space — like a kind of magical negro version of the Great Wall of China), and really, what are the disappointed progressive Dems who “haven’t been listening” to his nuances going to do come election time, vote for McCain?
No, it was a veritable given he would act just as he’s been acting since securing the Democratic nomination — and today’s vote will likely prompt a special squealing from the leftest regions of the blogosphere and media, whose penchant for eating their own was evident in the primaries. But in the end, they’ll vote for a guy who they see as abandoning his principles — either by rationalizing his tacking to the center as a cynical and necessary ploy to get himself elected, at which point he’ll then move leftward (progressives can call this the “wink and nod” general election campaign strategy; classical liberals / conservatives / honest folk can call it the “opportunistic, dissembling, do anything to gain power strategy”), or by forgiving him all his broken promises if only so that the left can have at least nominal control of the entirety of government, which is what they are after, anyway. Policy is always secondary to power — and policy talk is generally geared toward telling people what they want to hear in order to gain that power.
In an earlier post, Karl noted that, even were Obama planning to try to govern as a Clinton “centrist,” an all-Dem Congress exert its will and force him to lurch back leftward. At which point, Obama will likely claim that this was his plan all along — once again assuring the useful idiots of his commitment to progressivism on principle. And who knows? This may actually be his plan — hardly surprising given his voting record, associations, pedigree, and (most importantly) willingness to bracket all such, if only temporarily, when the scrutiny gets too heated.
Which, personally? I welcome such an outcome. Because we’ve been needing a new Contract with America, and perhaps from such a thing conservatives and classical liberals and libertarians will be able to pressure the GOP leadership into ridding the party of big government donks disguised as elephants — or, at the very least, threatening to take away their peanuts if they continue to fatten themselves up at the centralized trough.
(h/t STACLU)
****
update: Here’s more, from Donald Douglas.
update 2: While Hillary is certainly the vindictive sort, I’m not sure how many of her supporters will keep their pledge to vote against Obama as payback for what they believe was the “sexism” obliquely encouraged by his campaign. Similarly, I’m pretty certain that the majority of those screeching today about the apostasy of their King — who today must feel like He’s wearing the cyber equivalent of a crown of thorns — won’t be quick to tack him to a cross come election time.
Sound and fury, signifying nothing. Much like the candidate they will inevitably and vigorously support.
update 3: Seems the ACLU is set to sue over this. Evidently, the FISA legislation must not have included provisions for “wiretapping” Christians. Because then maybe the ACLU might get on board…
Obama refers to this as Taquiya.
But in the end, they’ll vote for a guy who they see as abandoning his principles  either by rationalizing his tacking to the center as a cynical and necessary ploy to get himself elected,
Not that it matters because they will vote for him no matter what, but Obama is claiming there is no tacking to the center because he’s always been there. My take is that the Messiah has no need of positions, as he is all positions.
BTW, it’s totally the screeching of the sock-puppets over at Salon, for those in need of some sweet, sweet schadenfreude. Congress did not collapse in the face of the strongly-worded advertisement.
Also, the amendements mentioned above did in fact fail, as documented in myriad updates from the cabana.
This is assuming that Obama was ever the “New Dennis Kucinich”. However, he has never even tried to be that. He has always behaved as a careful, pragmatic politician. Which is why he is still in the race.
It is a clever trick to falsely define someone then declare them as having betrayed themselves because they strayed from your bullshit definition. But whatevs. We would bore ourselves to death if we didn’t talk out of our asses at least once a day right?
That said, he totally flipped on FISA. What an asshole. But I guess he realizes that nobody gives a crap about civil liberties, so he decided not to expend political capital on it.
Hard to be Dennis Kookinich when you only actually worked in the Senate a year and a half. So I guess having any principle is completely out of the window for you Lisa? I guess his new slogan is PRAGMATISM that you can believe in to win, then WHO THE FUCK KNOWS.
Ha!
Emphasis Gleen(s’). More popcorn please.
Behold the glory of that bit of rapid schizophrenic reasoning. Obama defined HIMSELF as progressive — in fact, he assured his supporters of that yesterday (although he noted that they were too stupid to suss his nuances), and it was NBC who called him on his FISA reversal.
It’s not “talking out of your ass” when the fart in question is speaking truth to power…
I happen to think O is more of a cynical opportunist than a pragmatist, but then, the former sounds so disrespectful, which I think makes it a kind of hate speech.
To be fair, or at least to toss a paper wrench in the works, Hugh Hewitt was interviewing some lefty stiff (Lawrence Lessig) who supports Obama, and Hugh was trying to get him to admit that Obama flipped on FISA. The dewd was adamant that Obama merely withdrew his promise to filibuster the bill, because some adjustments had been made.
So it’s entirely possible that Strickland is doing the usual MSM drive-by and not going for the inevitable nuance.
But then again, if the lefties are still screaming at Obama for this, then they’re not hip to the nuance, either.
It is a clever trick to falsely define someone then declare them as having betrayed themselves because they strayed from your bullshit definition.
To whom are you referring? To the moonbats who defined Obama as “against FISA” and are mad at him for betraying that principle, or to the wingnuts who said that Obama was on the radical left and are accusing him of cynically tacking to the center?
Obama hates CIVIL LIBERTIES!!!! Agghhh, run for the hills! I guess, I will REALLY have to stop communicating with my terrorists buddies, now. Even Obama believes I have to.
dicentra —
His leftist friends, they simply haven’t been listening to him.
Also, going from “unequivocal” to “okay. But be warned that I’m not happy about this, even if I vote for it” is hardly solace to the true believers, like “conservative libertarian” (and member of the Left’s inner sanctum Townhouse meme-driving dispenser) Glenn Greenwald(s).
Obama is a minority so you can not “speak truth to power” to him since he will never be in power even if he is elected President. He is the underdog for obvious reasons don’t ya know.
Jeff,
In regards to Lisa’s statement, you have to remember that to people on the left, anything even 1 small step to the right of themselves is “conservative” or “centrist”. Thus, they believe it when they claim that Obama is not now and never was a liberal. Even though all of his past statements, associations, and voting record clearly show – as a factual basis – that he is pretty far left of center.
thus, someone like Lisa can claim to us and herself that Obama is a centrist and always was a centrist and thus, even though his new policy positions directly contradict statements he made less than 4 months ago, he has not, in fact, changed or flip-flopped, or anything else.
It’s not a question of facts, but feelings. They feel that he is a pragmatic centrist, thus he is. Facts be damned.
Speaking of moonbats going ’round the twist: Daily Kos: F*** the Democrats!
A “nay” vote on an unpopular [with your base] bill is expending political capital? Expending capital in going along with your base’s wishes in an office you’re hoping soon to vacate is too expensive in political terms?
That’s really the way you see it?
what, again? what happened to pwning the DLC?
What I don’t understand, and maybe Lisa can help me here, is if Obama is going to change all of his positions to be the exact same as McCain, why don’t you vote for McCain?
I mean, all things being equal in terms of policy positions, wouldn’t you prefer the guy with actual experience?
#2 EG
“My take is that the Messiah has no need of positions, as he is all positions.”
LOL, that was the funniest I’ve heard in a while.
But,seriously, for people who followed BHO , he was never a hard core leftist. Absolutlely not. If you remmeber, Edwards was the preferntial candidate for Kos crowd.
I, personally, always regarded BHO much more to the center then Edwards or Clinton, and I believe I mentioned it on this blog.
Lisa,
here is a good take on Obama and FISA, and it avoids Greenwald’s wordy diarrhea and whining:
http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/07/08/the-illness-of-optimism/
and here:
http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/07/08/lets-be-clear/
Oh please, he has never ever been a Kucinich or even a Dean. He became a superstar by making a VERY centrist, pragmatic speech at the Democratic Convention that appealed to everyone. He has pretty consistently conducted himself as a “safe” candidate who would not get in anyone’s face or take any untenable and wacky positions on anything.
I agree that he flipped. He flipped like a flapjack in a hot skillet. But shockingly enough, we Democrats are also pragmatists. Like Republicans, who will probably vote for Senator “I would vote against my own immigration bill” McCain, we will vote for Senator “I was against FISA before I was for it” Obama.
It’s not “talking out of your ass†when the fart in question is speaking truth to power…
lol.
Is it premature to call Baracky a house negro?
Hey, when are we going to rant about this unhealthy bit of Europhilia?
Note to Obama: Europeans speak many languages because they have to. They are a bunch of itty bitty countries all squished together, and you don’t have to go far to cross an international boundary. Here in the U.S., we’re one enormous nations that borders one larger nation that speaks English (we ignore Quebec, of course) and another that speaks Spanish. The rest of the Americas either speak Spanish or Portuguese.
Oh, and by the way, when the Norwegians go to Italy, they speak English. It’s the freaking lingua franca, so to speak.
Y no me vas a regañar por no saber otros idiomas, tonto. No es culpa mÃÂa que no aprendiste a hablar cristiano. ::escupo::
Oh please banana. You are such a raving freak. I do not run from the term liberal. One can be liberal and pragmatic. One can be less liberal than another liberal.
I know that this brand of “SHUT UP WHILE I TELL YOU WHAT KIND OF LIBERAL YOU ARE” is really effective at confusing Alan Colmes but it just doesnt work on me, sugar.
But go on, by all means. I enjoy this shit immensely.
VERY centrist, pragmatic speech at the Democratic Convention
VERY centrist, except it took place at ONE party’s convention and was thus, by definition, partisan.
Although I’ll easily grant you that it appealed to all of you.
21 –
He is a Senator. So NO.
Urthshu: He didnt get the invite to the RNC that year. I am sure he would have given a similarly pragmatic yet inspiring speech to the GOP.
If you define centrist as someone who is for the abortions of babies that live thru the actual abortion, for immediate withdraw from Iraq, for no FISA immunity, for no votes against John Roberts, and for sitting down to tea with people like Ayers and Racist Rev. Wright, then you should be smacked in the freakin head. The new spin today is different from the old spin yesterday, he is not a uniter anymore he is just simply between us all, not one of either side but between. Obama is the CENTER of our universe. Peace be upon him.
Is it premature to call Baracky a house negro?
It is at least in bad taste. Let’s call him a bush apologist instead.
my 25 –
Unclear, sorry. Can’t call him that unless he was in Congress, otherwise then he’d be a House negro. The closest to that would be a White House negro…
…almost spoils the joke….
dicentra is right I think, Strickland is just noting Obama’s *seeming* reversal on FISA.
But the I welcome such an outcome thing is a lot troubling. Baracky Pelosi Reid on a Marxist hopechangey bender will make Arlen Specter look like a conservative stalwart without him having to trouble bestirring himself at all. Baracky is just a community organizey half-wit. Domestically he’ll let Nancy drive. On foreign policy he’ll take dictation from George Soros and make pretty speeches is all.
Real people are going to get hurt. I just can’t see how you can welcome that on some vague hope that 2008 will be more catalysty than 2006.
Only thing this muslim has ever united was Ayers and Rev Wright in their hatred of our great Country.
God damn Amerikkka.
Oh please, he has never ever been a Kucinich or even a Dean.
I call bullshit. Obama is to the left of even those two.
I bet if you took a poll of PW commentators they would rather vote for Clinton than Obama. I mean if that doesn’t say something about how this freakin muslim is not anywhere near the “center” then I do not know what will.
You are a great American lee.
Totally ignoring his association with voter-fraud central, er, “ACORN”.
Baracky Pelosi Reid on a Marxist hopechangey bender will make Arlen Specter look like a conservative stalwart without him having to trouble bestirring himself at all.
This reminds me of the whiplash I suffered when I went from BYU to Cornell: in Provo, I was somewhat left of the general student body (not a difficult task), then without changing a single opinion, in Ithaca I was a jack-booted Nazi.
But it was interesting to see some of the same stupidity on both campuses but with different polarities: students really enjoy getting all “shocked and appalled” at the littlest thing, and they play a kind of pious one-upmanship with each other to see who can be “sensitive” enough to see evil where no one else can.
Drove me up a wall, I tell ya. That’s why I’m a failed academic. Couldn’t stand the students.
Your “ProggHero” was a better parody ConservativeHero.
Well, except for all the positions he struck before he wrapped up the nomination.
Seriously, O!-philes, claiming the guy who cites a Marxist poet as influential in his early life and who spent 20 years going to a far-left whacko church is not a leftist is fucking insane.
ConservativeHero, you are crazier than a bedbug in the month of June. But I like it.
As-salam alaikum, buddy. May the peace of many terrorists and their virgin 9-year old brides be upon you.
You misunderstand the context, happyfeet. I only welcome such because it will make clear his true colors — or the true colors of his constituency and Congressional handlers (see, eg., Karl’s earlier post) — and that’s precisely the kind of thing that gave us a conservative resurgence in ’94, and might do so again.
I mean, how can it get worse? Right now the “conservatives” are running John McCain for President. Even if they win, they lose.
Which is to say, he’s never actually taken a position on anything so people have to look at his associations to figure out what he believes. His associates are Marxists, Maoists, and liberation theologists.
ISTR that a Democrat actually did speak at the Republican convention that year. How was that received by Democrats? By Republicans?
oh. Anyway, I keep picturing all these little kids playing some game in this big field of rye and all.
Oh please banana. You are such a raving freak. I do not run from the term liberal. One can be liberal and pragmatic. One can be less liberal than another liberal.
I know that this brand of “SHUT UP WHILE I TELL YOU WHAT KIND OF LIBERAL YOU ARE†is really effective at confusing Alan Colmes but it just doesnt work on me, sugar.
I never said I would tell you what kind of liberal you are. But, like always from a leftist, thanks for the idiotic straw-man argument and the ad hom.
I said he was left of center and can not be called a centrist in any rational way. Are you claiming he is not?
Please establish for me how someone who is left of center could have the most liberal voting record of any U.S. Senator? How can having been against welfare reform for his entire career (before the last 2 months) be centrist?
How can being against the individual right to bear arms (until the last 2 months) be centrist (and before you claim otherwise, read his book where he clearly states he wants to pass laws to keep guns out of cities).
I can go on and on pointing out the far-left policy positions that Obama has had all of his life and career (until, of course, June 2008).
In contrast, please point me to a position he has held (not one of his new positiions from the past 2 months) that is “centrist”?
You don’t RUN FROM being called a liberal, but you sure do protest when your favored candidate is called one. Why is that? Every time a far left candidate runs, the left violently protests that such person is a centrist and not a liberal. You all sure are proud of your convictions.
It’s like when the delusional leftists at KOS claim the New York Times is conservative.
No matter how many times you state something that is not true, it reamins not true. Yes, Obama is being pragmatic about what lies he is going to tell to be perceived as centrist to get elected. Then, when he is elected and he moves back to his far left core, you will tell me he is only being pragmatic then and will claim that those positions are centrist.
From all the time you comment here, I have seen you seem very reasonable, yet you continue to back Obama. I know I have, and others have, asked you why – but never get any kind of logical response. You rant about the evil Patriot Act, for instance, but are never able to come up with a single actual provision of that act that you are against.
So, although I am a lunatic, at least I am an honest lunatic. Obama, based on his actual voting record, his past statements, his writings, his pre-June 2008 policy positions, his many, many extreme (marxist – Wright, Ayers) left long-time associates, his sleazy associates (Rezko), all factually demonstrate Obama is far to the left on the American policial spectrum.
You can rage into the night against such facts all you want, but it does not change those facts.
Again, if Obama is going to adopt all of McCain’s policies, why would you not vote for the man himself – McCain?
And Lisa, you can try to paint Obama as a pragmatic centrist, but his record and associations all say otherwise. You believe the empty platitudes in his speeches over the actual policies and positions he has taken?
You seem smarter than that to me.
And even for the sake of argument, if we were to agree that he’s had some sort of political epiphany and really HAS become a sudden centrist, why on earth should we vote for someone like him over McCain, who’s held that position in earnest far longer?
Personally, I won’t vote for either. But I’m curious why you would chose an inexperienced politico likely to be bullied by a Democratic Congress over someone who takes the same positions, and is under no compulsion to fall in line with said Congress.
Rob: Yeah but no one said that he was NOT a leftist. Just a pragmatist. Who has always tried to make himself palatable to the center.
But, since The Left can never be pragmatic or practical, this is all just bogus. We just sit around being dirtyfuckinghippies and smoking weed.
Urthshu: He didnt get the invite to the RNC that year. I am sure he would have given a similarly pragmatic yet inspiring speech to the GOP.
Quick, what did he say in that speech? What was inspiring about it?
Obama’s speeches are vastly overated both in terms of being good oration, and in terms of having any substance whatsoever.
Remember when everyone in the media and on the left was saying that his “race” speech about Wright was the greatest american speech since the Gettysburg Address and would change the world? Funny how we conservatives pointed out it was a) substanceless and b) did not address the controversy at issue – we were called racist idiots that just did not get it.
Of course, withint 2 months Obama himself basically rejected his own “great” speech and threw Wright under the bus.
It’s commitment to pragmatism like that which makes him so great.
I would rather have a piss poor speaker who actually said something and was honest than a great orator who says nothing and is dishonest – a la Obama.
Both lefties and righties can act pragmatically. But there is a fine line between pragmatism and crass, disingenuous opportunism. Changing all your positions only for the general election is pragmatic in the context of trying to get elected. But in the context of one’s belief system, it strikes me as either selling out, or else lying with the hope that, once elected, you can go back to embracing the principles you’re willing to abandon in order to gain power.
Meaning that you’re hoping to be elected by presenting yourself as something you aren’t.
“Pragmatism” may describe the strategy. But the ethics are quite clearly problematic.
Hey, I hung out with some weed smoking dirtyfuckinghippies at the Ani Difranco show Monday night. Does that mean I’m a leftist now?
Personally I thought it made me a lesbian, but who knows any more?
Who has always tried to make himself palatable to the center.
Do you rally believe that? Like Jeff said, I had the impression you were smarter and more honest than that. If you said that he tried to make himself more palatable to the center in the last few months – sure yeah. Or even if you said that his speeches tended to hide his actual beliefs behind some centrist jargon (depending, of course, on the audience and whether press is there), I might believe that.
But, what about his votes? His policy positions? His associations? None of those are centrist.
To some degree one sees the center from their self identified position on the political spectrum. Thus, Kos can say with no sense of irony that he represents the middle.
It helps that Kos is a delusional tool, but not everyone is.
That was a pragmatic, inspiring speech.
Lisa, don’t bogart that joint. Pass it over to me.
Banana: You are the one ranting. And it is just not working. Spend another thousand keystrokes trying to tell me what I am all about. It is still all bullshit.
Jeff: Yes, he has always been very pragmatic. If he weren’t he would not have clinched the nomination, nor would he be tied with McCain in the polls. Since all Democrats are crazed Marxists to you, why would I give a damn where, on your Scale of Shrieking Moonbats Obama falls? And further, why would I listen to your irrelevant clucking about whether we should feel betrayed by Obama flipping on FISA? I heard enough of that from Glenn Greenwald, Markos, et al last week.
I am not discounting his flip. This is an enormous flip. But from the gate, his coddling of religious assholes from MegaChurchland, his obsession with the annoying “heartland” voters, and his sortakindamaybe positions on abortion and gay rights pegged him as a pretty typical “safe” politician who was not going to go out on a limb and do anything really crazy. Which is what we love as Americans, unfortunately.
#22 dicentra,
true , some Europeans nations are too close geographically which makes it easier to grow bilingual cause of frequent communications.
But nothing wrong in knowing another one still,even if we live in the USA and do not have to. BHO is correct here.
I’ll tell you even with all that admission we do for Europeans, French are the worst, they do not want to learn any other languages, they are arrogant, like that.
Even on a tiny St.Martin in the Caribbean ( we usually go there for a vacation), many people on the French side can not speak English and the island is only a few miles big, divided between French and Dutch, extreme arrogance…
Squint your eyes and look closer
I’m not between you and your ambition
I’m a poster boy with no poster, I am 32 flavors and then some
But I’m curious why you would chose an inexperienced politico likely to be bullied by a Democratic Congress over someone who takes the same positions, and is under no compulsion to fall in line with said Congress.
I’m waiting for the argument that all this tension between the three branches of government is a bad thing, and the executive needs to drop all these unhelpful “checks and balances” with congress that destroy harmony in politics.
Kinda like bi-partisanship is an ideal goal. I’ve always thought that to be stupid, why not just have a one party system then? (I hope that was recognized as a rhetorical question!)
This line ought to set off every bullshit alarm on the planet:
Progressive author and lawyer Glenn Greenwald, who writes for Salon.com, and blogger Jane Hamsher of Firedoglake, are spearheading the effort.
I only welcome such because it will make clear his true colors  or the true colors of his constituency and Congressional handlers (see, eg., Karl’s earlier post)  and that’s precisely the kind of thing that gave us a conservative resurgence in ‘94, and might do so again.
The push for Reps to stay home in 2006 was supposed to bring about this same awakening, wasn’t it?
BTW: note the URL. Somebody has a sense of humor, anyway.
“Hell boy, we don’t take a crap around here without a properly filled-out 27b/6…”
Yes it was MayBee that’s a very good point people should think about that really a lot carefully I think
Sometimes you gotta have a Jimmy to get a Ronald.
Jeff: Yes, he has always been very pragmatic. If he weren’t he would not have clinched the nomination,
On what basis do you say that? He did clinch the nomination, but as pragmatism is not a requirement for doing so, clinching isn’t proof or pragmatism.
As it turns out feets, Ani and I do not share the same politics.
Banana: Yes, many of his positions are to the left. So fucking what? A few of them are not to the left. Please state your point, if you have one, other than to rant about the left and how the left has to be pure and NEVER EVER EVER do anything non-lefty (so as not to upset the Perfesser).
Yeah, Lamont. This is all vulcan chess and shit. They have the media and the congress and if we can just trick them into taking the courts and the White House… you’ll see. You’ll all see.
bwa. ha. ha.
True, you kiss ass to the base to get the nomination. But you can’t be a total crank, if that were true, we would have nominated Dean. Fuck it, we would have nominated Kucinich or Al Sharpton for that matter.
And you guys would have nominated Ron Paul, which would have been a delight.
Charismatic ≠pragmatic.
Which of Obamas positions are not to the left Lisa? Discounting his “pragmatism” of the last few months.
In any case, the good news is we will all get to hang out together in Obama’s
progressive re-education campshappy fun centers. Except for Lisa and PH who will likely poke us with sticks through the bars. Which is mean.Ron Paul is a delight. So long as we define delight as angry little dwarf who wants to burn your soul with his evil eye lasers. Now that I think about it though, I wonder if eye lasers come in any other flavor than evil.
[…] Goldstein: You can’t spell “hopeyness†and “changitude†without “capitulation.†Posted in: FISA Send to a Friend Printer Friendly comments (6) trackbacks […]
Wait, nevermind, Superman had good eye lasers. My bad. Sorry for the confusion.
Very disengenuous of you, Lisa. He has never said anything like that.
First, where did you get the ridiculous idea that all Democrats are “crazed Marxists” to me. I have consistently differentiated between Dems (many of whom are simply Dem by rote) and activist “progressives” — and even on that score, I’ve written that I believe many “progressives” are simply unaware of the kernel assumptions that necessarily underpin their ideology. Meaning, in other words, that they are blissfully ignorant of the totalitarian linguistic assumptions that animate their worldview — and so are hardly “crazed Marxists.” More like useful idiots, so long as we’re using this particular context.
Which is not to say that there aren’t activist progressives who ARE Marxist, or at least European socialists; but then, they admit to that. So there’s no problem with identifying them.
Second, you shouldn’t be concerned about where on MY scale of “shrieking moonbats” (another phrase you won’t find me uttering often) Obama falls. You should simply look at his voting record, his associations, and his policy talk prior to the last few months to decide for yourself where he falls. Of course, you have organizations who track such things and provide ratings, and as others have pointed out here, his voting record puts him well over to the left side of the spectrum — meaning that if he’s a “centrist,” somebody like, say, JFK was Pat Buchanan.
Third, you need not listen to or read my “irrelevant clucking” on Obama’s FISA flip flop. I don’t write specifically for you, nor do I much care what you read or why. However, it might not hurt to consider how those outside your political bailiwick view Obama through eyes that have spent the last six years or so covering the political scene on a daily basis. Or not. Your choice.
Finally, I don’t find his BLT “religious” in any other sense than that it carries with it a commensurate zealotry. Beyond that, though, he is “religious” to the extent radical environmentalists are religious. So his coddling seems to end when religious people don’t embrace his specific political message. At which point, they are merely bible-clinging gun nuts masking a kind of unacknowledged economic victimhood.
Much like terrorists, only without the explosive belts.
And as someone pointed out upthread, his position on “abortion” is about as extreme as any politician you can find.
I’m sure Jesse Taylor has something up today that appeals to you far more, though. So rather than try to paint me as a demagogue, I invite you to go visit Pandagon, where you won’t find any political generalities on offer. Enjoy!
And? Nobody said a one-shot effort was going to do the trick.
Again, I have no horse in this race. There isn’t a candidate running who represents the interests of classical liberalism. We’re dealing with degrees of statism, and the slippery slope is picking up speed toward a fully centralized nannystate, regardless of the party in charge.
I say let the ideology been thrown into broad relief.
McCain is every bit as awakeny and bas reliefy as Baracky I think, plus getting his heroic ass out of the Senate is like a bonus jumpstart. Also, the rancor between McCain and Republicans in Congress will a lot confuzzle the media I think. Their narrative isn’t really equipped for that.
Exactly, happy. Like I said on NPR, I’d rather the statism carry a (D) before its name, given the choice.
David Harsanyi wrote about this the other day, in fact. The GOP establishment needs to understand that it can’t win without conservatives.
So, you’re saying he’s just like Bill Clinton, Al Gore and John Kerry?
I gotta tell you that gives me a lot of Hope, for a Change.
Suddenly, Lisa has become very hostile to me. I think it may have something to do with “Mr Jiggity’s Phat-Ass Crib” — which was meant to mock Obama’s being out of touch with a certain type of lingo, much as (and Carin brings this up) my Marshall Mathers birthday post was meant to mock my own whiteyness.
I just find humor in all pretensions.
Congress did not collapse in the face of the strongly-worded advertisement.
Lol. There is always paper machie’!
You should simply look at his voting record, his associations, and his policy talk prior to the last few months to decide for yourself where he falls.
I have. But I don’t come to the same conclusion you have.
Finally, I don’t find his BLT “religious†in any other sense than that it carries with it a commensurate zealotry. Beyond that, though, he is “religious†to the extent radical environmentalists are religious. So his coddling seems to end when religious people don’t embrace his specific political message. At which point, they are merely bible-clinging gun nuts masking a kind of unacknowledged victimhood.
Thanks for confirming how little you know about his religious associations. He has been hanging out with the ex-gay crowd like Donnie McClurkin, crazy Ken Hutcherson, Rick Warren, and TD Jakes. None of these people are Black Liberation Theologists.
Jesse must remind you of an annoying ex-collegue or something because he really, as my father would say, gives you the ass. Sorry about that – he still cracks my shit up though.
Oh, I see they are organizing a “moneybomb’ aka fund raiser to run ads in the donks districts who voted for FISA. Riddle me this, if the Donks needed to vote for it because their constituency make-up, then won’t the “moneybomb” ads be a feature not a bug for them?
I’d rather the statism carry a (D) before its name, given the choice… is I don’t think really consistent with pressur[ing] the GOP leadership into ridding the party of big government donks disguised as elephants.
For real, Jeff. It’s McCain and his faggoty-assed faggot Republican Mainstreet Partnership that needs to be put in the disinfecting sunlight, culled from the pack. Throwing these gaywads into a unitey opposition to Baracky isn’t gonna do the trick.
And? Nobody said a one-shot effort was going to do the trick.
Nobody can say that a multi-shot effort will do the trick, either. We had Democrats in charge of the House for 40 years before the conservative resurgence (which petered out before 10 years passed).
Not voting to get a message across can work, but it can also send the wrong message. It’s a gamble, is all.
Again, I have no horse in this race. There isn’t a candidate running who represents the interests of classical liberalism.
I understand that.
Perfesser: What? You mean the thread where I liberally called everyone crackers?! You think I am pissed about Mr. Jiggety?
Now I see. You must think I am Cynthia McKinney. That explains a lot about the tone of our conversations.
I don’t come to the same conclusion you have.
Lisa, which of Obamas positions are not to the left Lisa? Discounting his “pragmatism†of the last few months.
It passed, 66/29 I believe.
Yes. But we all know how the black electorate — and the black churches, for the most part — embrace homosexuality.
This, again, is a political move, and perhaps part of a larger cultural concern for Obama.
So again, nothing changes. I brought up BLT because that was the kind of congregation with which O associated himself and from whose leader he true spiritual guidance. That he has OTHER religious connections that dovetail with the general religious repudiation of homosexuality among black churches doesn’t really change my stance much, I don’t think.
As for Jesse, sorry. He crosses my radar only when he comes after me first. And I find him about as challenging an opponent as Michael Moore would a crate of Dunkin’ Munchkins.
Well, I wrote about McClurkin on several occasions. But O! wasn’t a member of their churches for 20 years. Nor did he claim any of them as his spiritual adviser. Nor did any of them officiate at his wedding ceremony. His use of people like McClurkin falls under what Lisa would call “pragmatic,” but others might call “cynically lying to voters.” Because he was hanging with McCalurkin when it was time to court socially conservative religious blacks in the Carolinas, and is meeting with guys like Warren in his current pretend-centrist phase. Go back a few years and you find him hanging not just with Wright but with other liberation theologists like Dwight Hopkins and Tony Campolo, as well as fellow travelers like Jim Wallis.
True. But a principled one, at least.
Actually, the tone of conversations have typically been congenial. It was your sudden, unfounded suggestion that I believe all Dems are crazed Marxists — despite your being present when I clearly differentiated even some progressives from others, a subset of Dems I’d already differentiated from mainstream Democratic voters — that caught my attention.
Well, that, and your dismissal of my “irrelevant clucking.” My clucking my not be relevant to you, true. But then, I’m not the Messiah, so I can’t claim to BRING US ALL TOGETHER.
I’m gonna go get some Chinese food.
Jeff, not sure, but I think Lisa was responding to Banana when she said that.
. Nor did he claim any of them as his spiritual adviser.
I’m guessing he didn’t lay 20 grand on them either.
Happy, I’m just saying until it gets really bad for your average blue collar/ blue dog dems, libertarians, and conservatives who DON’T read political blogs (or follow politics much in general) nothing changes on the pork bloated, CYA, “bi-partisan,” chickenshit GOP end. Obama and a Dem House virtually guarantee that.
When those folks wake up to $8 dollar gas, everything costs a goddamn fortune, there’s a new annual federal tax just to drive their Tahoe, their families health insurance is fubar, to get a small college tax credit their kid was forced into some service group through school that has her painting a mosque the next four Saturdays, protesting the four after that, and they send her home with proper parenting, speech, and racial guideline pamphlets, on top of which 45% of every fucking paycheck has now gone “missing,â€Â
and…there’s nary a Republican in office?
Cue Rocky music and the GOP goes back to it’s core principles a la Gingrich & Co’s contract, you get new, young Republican blood running for office, and Obama, Nancy, Harry, Soros and the rest of the suicidal, lunatic fringe get run out on a rail.
Voting for McCain is just kicking the can down the road.
Oops, checked back, and I’m wrong, she was talking to you.
BTW, O! likes what Warren and Jakes have done on issues like , Third World debt relief, and the genocide in Darfur. But Obama’s 2006 keynote address to the Sojourners demonstrates he’s not as down with them as he is with Campolo and Wallis.
Lisa is emoting. Barack is just one of her people. It’s ok. Happy, bring me back some Kung Po Chicken. I’ll pay you back on Tuesday.
lee he has no centrist positions. That doesn’t matter it is all about how he “feels” centrist. Oh yeah he also talks about hope too, hope is very centrist since the leftist always run around mad and without hope. Yes killing babies unfortunate enough to survive an abortion and socializing 1/5th of our nations economy is about the two most “centrist” positions one can have. Hell if you oppose them you are a raving reich wing psychopath.
Lee, I can think of at least two: in 2006 he trotted his hopey little ass up in front of the National Association of Evangelicals and basically said that he would adopt Bush’s faith-based wankery. Now that is debatable whether it is conservative. But it is something that religious nuts of both parties can get behind.
The GI bill: He has been paying lip-service to strengthening the GI bill, a position that is pretty standard middle of the road fare. Again, that goes back to when he was still “thinking about not running for president”.
I have been paying close attention to him for 3 years. He has consistently annoyed me by doing that slippery dance that candidates do to keep from “looking too radical”. He is a liberal, but he is a liberal that kowtows to the middle and makes himself appear pliable and amenable to the center – which makes him vaguely disappointing to everyone. But the same personality thing that transformed Bill Clinton from a mediocre and unoriginal president into The Best President Ever in his admirer’s eyes will probably do the same for Barack Obama. You just can’t get anywhere by being anything but a watered down and unoriginal hack. If you are an unabashed conservative like Tom Tancredo or a unrepentant liberal like Dennis Kucinich, you get laughed off of the stage.
Voting for McCain is just kicking the can down the road.
Unfortunately, I think not voting for McCain is a dangerous gamble. Sure, in four years, America may be in such a huge mess conservatives will return in glory. But America will be a huge mess that will take a generation to recover from, and the world might be adjusting to a sea of glass that once was the middle east, major supplier of the lifeblood of democracy that is oil.
Pragmatism, the watchword of the day.
The GI bill??????? Come the hell on no stinking puking marxist supports our troops. That is also like saying he supported naming a road after a war hero about the most politically safe position on the planet. If you consider that centrist then your position is probably to end the GI bill you puking socialist twatwaffle.
So, Lisa, what you are saying is that he really isn’t very hopey and/or changey? True that. However, his past associsations, some of them rather deep, due indicate his strong marxist leanings.
As Jeff says, it is a complete loser for anybody claiming to be a classical liberal or libertarian. Two statists running against eachother. Yeah! Time for more single malt scotch. BTW, Jeff, if you haven’t had it already, I’d recommend (for value) the 12 year Old Pulteney. A nice scotch (salty finish, but overall light) for a good price.
Hey lisa all parody aside, if you consider supporting the GI bill “centrist” you are either so far left if the world was flat you would fall off the left side, or you probably just said the most intellectually dishonest thing I have seen on here other than my cut and paste jobs.
Karl:
I was addressing whether he has had certain positions or relationships that predate his post nomination move to the center.
And yes, he has.
Obama is a con artist on the make, and a damned good one–I kind of admire that, too. He’s smart, ambitious, articulate, “clean,” disciplined, and a damn fine retail pol.
He’s no Marxist, or radical, but he plays one on TV when it suits him. I have no idea what his core beliefs are, but judging by his record, he’s a chameleon. Why else all the “present” votes?
My sense is that he’s cautious by temperment–even conservative, but a trapped by his political environment–he’s a player not an ideologue.
So that leaves lot’s of question marks for November. I’d never vote for him, but I’d like to see even a glimpse of principled idependence as opposed to rank opportunism, or “pragmatism, or “centrism.”
Conservativehero: Thanks buddy. Considering that you are crazier than a shithouse rat, I will take that as a compliment.
OK Lisa, I will give partial credit to the GI bill, though “lip service” is a little sketchy.
I think the faith-based thing is a pose, a redefinition of the thing that bears no resemblance to the intent of the measure.
Hell yes he is hopey and changey. We all Hope that he will be elected so we can Change parties for a while because we are tired of Republicans.
But as far as a New Kind of Politics? Not so much. He is the same old same old. Anyone who could actually be interesting or shake things up was drummed out of the race by the American people very early on. We like the same old same old. That is who we vote for.
[…] The nutroots are no doubt rioting as I type this. […]
#97: That was pretty dickish. But I will let it slide because I have been pretty cuntish.
his coddling of religious assholes from MegaChurchland, his obsession with the annoying “heartland†voters,
What is the matter with us, Lisa? Now, I do not go to one of those Six Flags over Jesus churches, but damn, you coastal folks get riled up about us.
The Left’s FISA Orwellianism…
Just know that the whole FISA debate, for all the sound and fury, is a massive defeat for the netroots hordes and their extremist ideology of surrender. The Constitution is not a suicide pact….
Perfesser: You know that I think you are one of the smartest crackers on the internets…if not in the whole world. I would have LOVED to have taken one of your classes (I would have written “You are so RAD!!” on my eyelids then blinked provocatively).
But sometimes your posts bring out the harpy in me.
#111: Pure, unadulturated jealousy, JD. You guys get “sought after” while we are just “a given” (sob).
I am sorry. I have to stop being so bitter and clingy. You know what they say about a liberal scorned.
Lisa,
***
Yeah, pretty much in agreement, except that you plan to vote for him. The key word for me in the second quote is “appear.” Because the prgamatism is really expediency.
As I keep saying, leftists have turned themselves into the cell-block bitches of politics. They don’t need to be forced into “assuming the position” any more. All it takes is a simple nod, or, in Obama’s case, flashing the pearly-whites, and they’ll automatically grab the Vaseline.
Perfesser: You know that I think you are one of the smartest crackers on the internets
Sometimes I think Lisa is a clever sockpuppet from nishi. Much like my suspicion progg/conservativeHero is Thor.
It could just be that their noses have a similar tint.
Okay, Lisa. As long as I’m getting a reaction.
But seriously? I’d prefer one that at least gets my positions correct. For instance, right now? I’m typing this from missionary, but if my turkey wrap turns out as good as I hope it does, I’ll be climbing onto all fours.
BTW, HRC voted against the FISA bill on final passage, just to rub O!’s nose in it.
lee- ha.
Last night I thought datadave was typing a lot like nishi.
I have become tranquil.
Obama will be elected. Sometime in 2010 the Iranians will test their bomb, then use the second one somewhere. Tel Aviv? Vienna? Who knows?
And by the fall of 2010 we will all be remembering Jimmy Carter as a God who works miracles.
Regards,
Ric
“Jeff: Yes, he has always been very pragmatic. If he weren’t he would not have clinched the nomination, nor would he be tied with McCain in the polls.”
– Lisa this isn’t like you. (Or is it not the SugarTits I knew?)
– Obama won the nomination by getting to the Left of Hillery, which is no mean feat, on the Iraq war. He was going to “bring the troops home the day I take office”, remember?. He wasn’t going to consult with anyone, it was time to bring them home. That, coupled with her “evil” vote for the war is how he won. Other than that, there was no difference between them on the issues.
– Now if your definition of pragmatic is changiness depending on which portion of the election cycle you’re in, every good politician does that, but that means hes just a good politician, and in no way different, and it also means his tack to the center is as phony as his housing projects turned out to be, and as soon as hes in, its back to Left as possible.
– That little ditty about secularizing religion is about as Marxist as it gets.
– Todays vote on FISA, (he voted yea), is a “pragmatimatic” realization it couldn’t be stopped anyway, and cynical in saying “what the hell, might as well go for some moderate votes”. His “new” position on the gun ownership thing was the same.
– These are all facts that have played out before everyones eyes, so I’m not sure what you’re reacting too exactly.
–
REV. JESSE JACKSON APOLOGIZES TO SEN. BARACK OBAMA FOR ‘CRUDE AND HURTFUL COMMENTS’ CAUGHT BY OPEN MIC
‘pparently Jesse Jackson unloaded some ‘cursey’ sort of thing against Baracky on an open mike this am and is scrambling to repair the damage before the tape gets out.
[…] Goldstein: You can’t spell “hopeyness†and “changitude†without “capitulation.†Bookmark to: Tags: Barack, Obama,, Fisa,, FISA, Bill,, Government, Surveillance,, Mike, […]
#115: I agree, Karl. The problem is that we force our candidates into that by weeding them out of they show any kind of spine or stand up for anything. If they take a stand that is to the left they are a tool of moveon.org and should be summarily shot. If they take a stand that is to the right, they are some lunatic fascist. We almost always drum out the people who have something interesting to say very early in the process, then end up with disappointing candidates – but never fail to be mad that we don’t have any real trailblazers on the ticket.
#118: Sorry for the hotghettobombast. I have been getting increasingly annoyed with the whole “Obama is supposed to be THIS guy but instead, sadly, he is THIS guy”. That is tiresome and irritating. Yes, dammit he is a flipping bitch. But I am so frustrated with our political set-up which demands that candidates neurotically eschew any principles (principles are radical!) while attempting to appeal to some fabled “middle America” by straddling policy ideas and being for them before they were against them or whatever.
We KNOW how we demand bland stupidity from our politicians, yet we handwring and natter about how stupid they are after we have run the smart ones out of town with a horsewhip.
Shit pisses me off.
We don’t have to run the smart ones out of town, Lisa. They are smart enough not to run in the first place, making that decision all on their own hook.
But I am so frustrated with our political set-up which demands that candidates neurotically eschew any principles (principles are radical!) while attempting to appeal to some fabled “middle America†by straddling policy ideas and being for them before they were against them or whatever.
What is it about the “political setup” that made Obama do this fancy dance over Iraq and NAFTA? He took the positions he took of his own choosing. You can’t blame the way a grown man running for president positions himself on the process. It’s his own damn fault he tried to be too special for actual positions.
– Lisa, theres no doubt Obama is a smart politician.
– Hes also everything hes done, said, and shown himself to be, as well as everything hes refused to take a solid no holds barred position on.
– That, and you better teach your kids to speak Spanish.
– From where I sit I looks like the guy is in that trap of trying to please everybody all the way across the political spectrum, listening to way too many political “experts”/advisor’s, and as a result speaking a totally mishmoshed message, ultimately pleasing no one. But thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Sdferr is correct. It is undoubtedly why Condi refuses to consider running for anything, and why Fred! didn’t seem so much interested in running for president as just in getting a chance to travel outside of the Beltway for some fresh air.
Pitch is out! We can’t hold altitude!
Correction, Alpha Hold is off. . . Threat selector is emergency!
Flight Con! We can’t hold it! She’s breaking up, she’s breakâ€â€
Conservatives. Republicans. A party barely alive.
Gentlemen and also Lisa and Carin and MayBee, we can rebuild it. We have the technology. We have the capability to make the world’s mostest wonderfullest classically liberal political party. The GOP will be that party. Better than it was before. Better … stronger … faster.
No for real it won’t happen like that. This Baracky and his media is gonna fuck you up.
BBH, yes – you just defined pragmatic or expedient. And?
You guys always profess surprise when I put on my moonbat boots (you are not the moonbat I thought I knew!).
Always remember the fable about the turtle who gave the moonbat a ride on his back…
Axelrod and his Baracky, you mean.
Last night I thought datadave was typing a lot like nishi.
Maybee, Datadave showed up last night? Huh. Isn’t it odd that he showed up after an extended absence coinciding with yours?
NOW I know where all those socks in the dryer disappear to! ;)
Todays vote on FISA, (he voted yea), is a “pragmatimatic†realization it couldn’t be stopped anyway, and cynical in saying “what the hell, might as well go for some moderate votesâ€Â.
See, I think it was pragmatic because he realizes he might actually win. He’s not going to want the telecoms going bust on his watch, and he certainly is going to want their cooperation when it’s his turn to keep another attack from happening.
The GOP ain’t the stupid party for nothing. Losing again will likely convince them even more that they need to move further left. But on the bright side, another 30 years of a left leaning high court!
Lisa just admit it, you want Obama to lie in order to win this election.
Damn Happy I was with you.
Maybee, Datadave showed up last night? Huh. Isn’t it odd that he showed up after an extended absence coinciding with yours?
I am datadave!
He was posting under a different name, “banned in colorado” and he said he was taking care of his infirm dad.
Perhaps I am nishi sockpuppeting datadave, too.
#135: You got it, MayBee.
Of course he needs to lie. As if his whiplash inducing pivots are going to keep his minions from voting for him. They want him to lie. They need him to lie. Just grab the prize, BoyO, just grab the prize.
#2 and # 121 are the funniest posts in the tread !
The Messiah is no pragmatist.. That implies flexibility for the greater good. He’s a Manchurian Candidate.. O’Reilly finally said last night what I’ve been thinking since the first time I saw Obama.. He’s a product of a PR firm with no actual core beliefs of his own. He’s a custom built and coached political candidate invented for the sole purpose of grabbing the reins of power for the masters that he serves… The think-tank weighs out what positions will bring in more votes than it loses and he mouths whatever position he’s told to with all of the ethical difficulty of Winston Smith editing yesterdays newspaper… but who does he really serve? There’s the sixty thousand dollar question…
I only hope that Obama chooses Hillary as a running mate because if he get’s elected and then screws up, someone is going to put a bullet in him unfortunately. At least if Hillary is the Vice President, we’ll have someone relatively competent to run the country instead of someone like John Edwards who has tried running on his ‘pretty boy’ looks twice now. He needs to stay home and take care of his family, not go to Washington. But that’s just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions!! ;)
…an all-Dem Congress exert its will and force him to lurch back leftward.
Which, personally? I welcome such an outcome.
Not me, for two reasons. 1) Our success in Iraq needs to be nurtured on many fronts and I have no faith Democrats will do that. 2) The Supreme Court — We almost have a reliable conservative majority. John Paul Stevens, the eldest justice, is currently 88. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is 75. Justices Scalia and Kennedy are both 71.
Perhaps I am nishi sockpuppeting datadave, too.
See, I have trouble believing that at all. Nishi can’t pull off classy.
(and now I see how the datadave thing didn’t work at all, sorry maybee. I’ve gone too far)
but who does he really serve? There’s the sixty thousand dollar question…
The Soros Network.
“I only hope that Obama chooses Hillary”
– Obama may be down to choosing his preferred mode of transportation and route back to Shicago after the convention.
– Its truly amusing that so many of the nutroots are convined hes got the nomination already.
– Either way, him or Hillery, plastic sheeting will be at a premium to stave off whichever half of moonlandias heads explode.
if he get’s elected and then screws up, someone is going to put a bullet in him
KeeKee, keep your sick fantasy to yourself, we don’t need it around here.
“We like the same old same old. That is who we vote for.”
That’s because American’s are naturally conservative. Even Liberals.
KeeKee scares me. If Baracky gets elected we a lot have to be be sanguine about it cause of the whole democracy thing. Me I really a lot intend to sort of immerse back into entertainment thingers. But there’s any number of things people can do. Golf or martial arts or learn a foreign language or cooking things you don’t know how to cook or play a musical instrument or just devote a lot of time to your children. Really I think you can surprise yourself with how oblivious you can be if you really put your mind to it.
The Kossaks are in full on revolt. Here is my fav post so far…
“This is why H L Mencken thought… (13+ / 0-)
…that the right to vote should not be extended to everybody. I don’t think he was right, but the older I get the less I’m sure.
Low information voters are never going to be brought around to understand the importance of this issue until it is too late for us all. If the 1st and 4th amendment produced the kind of tactile feedback that the 2nd does, rednecks would collect commemorative pens instead of guns, and we wouldn’t be losing this so badly.
If it were true, they couldn’t say it on Fox News. -6.62 -5.90
by PBCliberal on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 09:45:23 AM PDT”
Wear a body condom before going over there… it’s a bit MESSY.
LOL!
For Ric:
You’ve got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don’t mess with Mister In-Between
You’ve got to spread joy up to the maximum
Bring gloom down to the minimum
Have faith or pandemonium
Liable to walk upon the scene
(To illustrate his last remark
Jonah in the whale, Noah in the ark
What did they do
Just when everything looked so dark)
Man, they said we better
Accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don’t mess with Mister In-Between
No, do not mess with Mister In-Between
Do you hear me, hmm?
(Oh, listen to me children and-a you will hear
About the elininatin’ of the negative
And the accent on the positive)
And gather ’round me children if you’re willin’
And sit tight while I start reviewin’
The attitude of doin’ right
(You’ve gotta accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don’t mess with Mister In-Between)
You’ve got to spread joy (up to the maximum)
Bring gloom (down) down to the minimum
Otherwise (otherwise) pandemonium
Liable to walk upon the scene
To illustrate (well illustrate) my last remark (you got the floor)
Jonah in the whale, Noah in the ark
What did they say (what did they say)
Say when everything looked so dark
Man, they said we better
Accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don’t mess with Mister In-Between
No! Don’t mess with Mister In-Between
We could use another Johnny Mercer ’bout now.
‘course when I hear that song now, I think of the opening sequence of L.A. Confidential, which is just as fitting in this context.
I’ve gone too far
no way! You’re great.
HF:
NSFW
Odd… Bush has certainly elaborated — and stuck to! — some principles. Yet he’s hated by the left for that.
Actually, I think what pisses you off isn’t that we demand our politicians not have principles, it’s that our form of government forces compromises.
Thanks MayBee!
Why is it people on the left say their politicians are pragmatic for lying to them and to the American people, but people on the right just say their politicians are pieces of shit and they themselves will be pragmatic enough to continue to vote for them cause the other guy is more fucked up?
ack… I will listen in a bit I am stuck on phone.
RTO, you must have missed my earlier posts on the subject.
I call my philosophy “positive pessimism”. If you follow Mercer’s advice, you will be continually disappointed as things don’t work out as well as expected. If, on the other hand, you are genuinely convinced that the worst will occur, you can go through life with a spring in your step, because all your surprises will be happy ones.
Regards,
Ric
Woah, ConservativeHero, you’re getting into ‘giving identity away’ territory there. Watch out with that insight thing. It’s way sharp and pointy and yo could put someones eye out.
Salt Lick —
That bit you excerpt was predicated on the premise that Obama is elected. Which leaves the court concerns — which, as a regular reader you know is one of my major hobbyhorses — moot.
– Apparently the good Rev Jackson wasn’t all that thrilled with Obama’s faith based initiative either.
– siting in studio for a FOX interview yesterday he spoke in a whisper to his appearence mate: “Obama is talking down black people….”
– Then he went on to state an expletive deleted, and mention something hed like to do to a part of Obama’s anatomy.
– Today he issued an apology in one of his typical long winded bloviations that I’m still trying to deciphor. Basically all the double talk boils down to “Sorry bro, I loves yah.”
– The Obsma camp has thus far been totally silent about the whole affair.
– Can’t be ‘dissin a brother.
ConservativeHero must have missed my posts on McCain.
Not talking about you Jeff but about the majority of people I speak to or see posting on right wing blog sites.
The 2008 Bildergerger conference was in the USA this year. In Virginia the first week of June. Did the Messiah attend?
The GOP ain’t the stupid party for nothing. Losing again will likely convince them even more that they need to move further left.
Well, Rep. Chris Cannon (R-UT) got booted out of the primary just a few weeks ago because of his support for the immigration bill, so there’s that.
But yeah, when all you have is center-left and way-left to vote for, it’s hard to convince the former that they need to tack back rightward. Sitting the election out and letting the other candidate win only tells the ‘phants that Lefies Win, not that their constituency is pissed off. Only torches and pitchforks will do that, and even then I’m not sure.
Salt Lick – That bit you excerpt was predicated on the premise that Obama is elected.
Yes, Jeff, and the premise the Dems push him ever more leftward. But I’ve gotten the impression that you don’t see Obama’s election as worse than McCain’s election. IMHO, however, the long-run consequences of “bad” decisions on Iraq and Supreme Court issues alone are reason to take a chance on McQueeg.
Sorry if you’ve thrashed this out previously. I returned to internet chat only several months ago and even now I’m more a drive-by commenter.
Sitting the election out and letting the other candidate win only tells the ‘phants that Lefies Win,
Well, it also tells them Bush is universally hated, the war in Iraq was a mistake, and they haven’t presented enough tits for the voters to suckle off of. This despite Bush’s re-election(contrary to their own defeat in ’06),the success of TWOT, and a Republican congress who’s spending would make a socialist blush.
So, naturally, the answer is to distance themselves from Bush, confess to the terrible and entirely preventable “mistakes” in Iraq, and promise the weather will be put on a thermostat. That way, if lucky we can outswindle the electorate into coughing up just enough votes to retain some power.
I’m with Jeff. Better to live and die on our principals, than convert and live in serfdom and dimmitude.
Fuck McCain and his bi-partisan ideals. Luke warm water is nasty, and I spit it in the face of the servant selling it.
Lisa, either get a clue or be quiet.
What the left is howling about is called “data mining”, and has absolutely nothing to do wi9th random phone taps. You have been mislead by the (very conscious) lies of the libs.
Those fucktards know exactly what is going on, but prefer to lie to you about it.
Why do you think the bill passed? Use Google, and then try using your brain. If this bill was such an assault on freedom, it would never have passed.
Your “leaders are full of horseshit, and they know it.
Would that you could know it, too.
Well we all know the libs enjoy voting for liars. Hell they have been doing it for almost 20 years. Shit they do it with a smile on their face. If they ain’t voting for a liar they are hugging a tree or planning an abortion. Look even their own presidential nominee is wanting face to face “diplomacy” with Iran, knowing full well they are liars. Libs love liars.
I’m just going to tend my garden is all.
[…] Jeff G at Protein Wisdom with da funny: Seems the ACLU is set to sue over this. Evidently, the FISA legislation must not have included provisions for “wiretapping†Christians. Because then maybe the ACLU might get on board… […]
That mp3 won’t play on the laptop here at work… maybe when I get home. Also no one has really disputed my argument that the Republican Party will be a lot more able to define itself contra McCainism with him in the White House than with him crouching all wide stancey in a stall in Congress with his gang of 14 nancy boys. If Baracky is in the White House than the Republican minority is all painted in impotent shades of gray anyway.
If he’s not president, you’ll never be able to point to him and say hey this is a bad, bad person, and also his friends are bad, bad people too and also that Lindsey one is a flagrant poofter crotchwatcher. He’ll just dodder along in the Senate making an ass of himself. And I don’t see how that satisfies any principle really.
oh. *then* the Republican minority blah blah blah. For real I don’t understand how delivering this nation unto Baracky is not going to do anything but get you assigned a deeper circle in hell. People are going to get hurt.
Happy the only reason I can think of not to vote for McCain is so the Republicans can effectively stop SHAMNESTY. Without a doubt they have a will have an easier time doing that in the minority.
SHAMNESTY. What are you, twelve?
his obsession with the annoying “heartland†voters,
Nice, Lisa. I agree, how dare they ask that their concerns be addressed? I mean, he has to exit the Getty Mansion to go and treat with them, and who knows what rude disease he will come back with? God forbid he should adress those people Down in the Boondocks.
Baracky is nothing more than a dildo tool for Nancy Pelosi and her media friends to use to convince America of its deep latent desire for stimulating anal pleasures. It vibrates hope and change! Good Americans don’t let good Americans get fucked in the ass with Nancy Pelosi’s negritudinous strap-on dildo. And this, my friends, is a for real excerpt from my This I Belive essay I submitted to NPR. Still waiting to hear back on that.
Happy do you do stand up or do you just take alot of acid?
#54 Sashal – do you realize the extent, the geographic extent of the United States? A cousin of a co-worker of my dad came to Dearborn. The cousin was from Poland. The cousin wanted to go on a weekend jaunt to St. Louis to see another relative. It took a while for Mr. Gross to explain exactly how far away St. Louis was from southeastern Michigan. Add in Canada (outside of Quebec) and you have a vast area with one language and no pressing need to learn another, especially as English is the common language of business.
No insult intended by that last comment.
To make it even more immense, Guam and the Northern Marianas speak English, as do many of the other islands in Pacific micronesia, not including Australia (and their sphere of influence) and New Zealand. Go through western Europe, and many places in Eastern Europe. And places everywhere else.
English is the common tongue, far more than Latin ever was, far more than Mandarin can hope to be.
Oh no, not at all, ConservativeHero. I’m a little worked up is all. I’ve got that the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil blah blah blah sort of idea stuck in my head.
Oh. This I *Believe* … And you know what? I don’t really want to keep going back to this line of thinking I don’t think so I’m just going to finish out my thoughts here.
Yes I’m talking to YOU, Mr. Goldstein. You were NOT exactly Mr. Primary Guy when all this McCain business was going down. You wrote maybe two posts for Fred, and then later when it was already pretty much a done deal you did your pieces that caught the NPR’s attention. You did not fight the good fight on this one, Mr. Goldstein. So your principles are all well and good, but for real if you had been as vocal about your principles back when this Hobsony thing could have been strangled in its crib or had its nuts cut off or whatever, it … it would have been more better I think.
I just felt like I should say that cause I keep thinking it is all. I feel better now.
The push for Reps to stay home in 2006 was supposed to bring about this same awakening, wasn’t it?
MayBee, staying home is the exact opposite of trying to get others to agree with you and make a change. You want a change? Then you have to get up and work for it at the local (county) level. Vowing to stay home will not change anything. To effect your world you must be a part of it. Really – the story of Robinson Crusoe would mean nothing if no one ever heard of it. To be heard he had to get off the island and back to Jon Donne’s main.
Blogs are fun, but if the argument never moves off of the web and to people near you, then how effective is the argument, really?
I think it would be as effective as Cassandra was – she knew, but no one heard. And if no one hears, then why bother?
“Doing something” is not blogging, or writing, or voting, at least according to the last 200 plus years of American activity and every civics lesson I ever heard.
The simple fact that our military recruiting did not pick up after 911 is the only evidence you need to conclude we now are in the “good men do nothing” catagory.
Oh. It’s a real problem I think.
CH must have missed all of those reports about recruiting targets being hit (including re-enlistments for the reserves and National Guard), and the large re-enlisting ceremony in Baghdad.
But then again, parodies are not concerned with reality.
Oh. I fell for that. All I could think of was Pat Tillman, and he was sort of … different I thought.
#94 – LYBD: Wishing evil to befall your nation for a political change in the future is evil.
Pure evil. I wish no harm on these United States, no matter which party is in power. “God Bless America” is not a partisan – or ideological – phrase.
Douchebag I said they did not go up, they have been meeting them with sick reenlistment bonuses. I never ever said they went down, you just would naturally expect in the months after 911 for men to get off their asses and sign up. Posting on a fuckin blog ain’t cutting it.
I don’t really understand why you denigrate blogging like that.
#99 – Lisa :He is a liberal, but he is a liberal that kowtows to the middle and makes himself appear pliable and amenable to the center – which makes him vaguely disappointing to everyone.
Welcome to electoral reality in a polity that has a broad suffrage. And all of that is wrong…why?
N.B: To all true conservatives or true liberals – the last question applies to you also. It is a broad suffarage, and your ideas are also out there.
Do you want ANY of your ideas taken seriously? Then get out there in the local parties and make them argue your ideas. Sitting home and stewing in your juices won’t do that.
And up yours, CH. Those of us who tried to sign up in the 1990’s, and then tried after 9/11, really find your bile very old hat after seven years of war.
At least the Coast Guard Auxilliary gives me a place to serve as I can. And you do what? I am putting on the ODU blues again this weekend, and you are doing….
what?
Well yes I am sorry. Seriously, typing with my fingers while sitting in my tighty whiteys is such a great contribution to our war effort.
And I find [Jesse] about about as challenging an opponent as Michael Moore would a crate of Dunkin’ Munchkins.
Eat me.
CH, why don’t you just go Cheney yourself?
Return of the chickenhawk meme? That one never gets old, does it?
Seriously, typing with my fingers while sitting in my tighty whiteys
That’s stupid. You’re not paying attention. Start here.
The simple fact that our military recruiting did not pick up after 911…
That’s a fact is it?
#160 Ric: While a pessimist will always have happy surprises, does a pessimist ever bother to intiate anything? Certainly those men in Philadelphia in the summer of 1776 were not pessimists? Was George Washington a pessimist? Was Abraham Lincoln one? Was Theodore or Franklin Roosevelt a gloomy-gus?
To be a pessimist is to be anti-American in the strict definition – America is the definition of optimisim.
Oh listen! The bar has ‘Glory Days’ playing. It is sprightly tune, but the lyrics are very unAmerican. The Glory Days are still to come. My littlest neice got christened two weekends ago; my oldest nephew will graduate from Camp Pendleton in a couple of weeks.
America is still the land of Hope and Glory. Our finest hour has yet to be written. The American experiment will still resound through this world, and the captives will be freed.
This is the finest time to be alive and to be an American; excepting those times yet to come.
“I never ever said they went down, you just would naturally expect in the months after 911 for men to get off their asses and sign up.”
You’ve never betrayed any knowledge or understanding of military recruiting or how to tell how successful it is or isn’t.
I’ve been fighting the good fight regularly for a number of years now, happyfeet. If you think I somehow let the country down because I couldn’t bring myself to rant over and over and over again about the idiocy of Republican primary voters, well, so be it. I disappointed you, sue me.
Thing is, I’ve made my thoughts on McCain clear for years on this site. And it just so happens that during the time of the primaries, I had other concerns to tend to, and didn’t blog much at all. It was only my extreme outrage over McCain that brought me back at all. When I left, he was considered dead in the water.
I noted who I’d support. I noted why I would not support McCain. And I’ve noted that I don’t agree that refusing to vote is the same as “doing nothing.”
I don’t need to advertise my principles on a blog for them to be what they are. What I haven’t done, however, is tell people that they shouldn’t vote for McCain if they think it in the best interest of the country. I’m not sure it is. But I’m not an oracle. And I have my own inner conflict to deal with on that one, anyway.
And for the record, just having a forum where people can post their thoughts seems to me to be more than a lot of people have done. Even when it gets taken for granted.
With McCain/Fred/Primaries – honestly it wasn’t a fair fight. The media was pushing McCain big time – and then Huck for a while. The media was all over who they felt confident would be a poor choice for the Republicans. They did what they could do defeat Fred by merely ignoring him … which came across largely, to the public, that Fred didn’t want it. Perception is reality and all that.
Oh. And ConservativeHero = Moby.
I want to just agree and also tell you how much I appreciate your blog, cause I do. But also you are an important voice, so it’s different… with great power and all that. So yes I think you let the country down, at least just a little anyway. At least my little corner of it. But I don’t mean to sound judgey about it. I just missed you is all.
Now, back into hiding. Every time I come out, I get shit on my shoes.
Now I feel bad.
If you provide me with a link RTO where the recruiting goes up after 911 I will gladly eat my words.
Can’t feel bad about honesty feets. Our choice is between syphilis and gonorrhea (according to some) and the penicillin to cure it hasn’t been invented as yet. Deciding not to choose just means you get the “luck of the draw” – ‘cept that syphilis will eat your brain right up and not even burp afterwards.
By the way it is not a chicken hawk meme to consider everyone here saying they “make a difference” by simply blogging or voting.
Jeff you did not call me out as the ProggHero, why call me out so much now?
ConservativeHero, eat shit instead.
Then die.
Preferably off Jeffs shoes. With a lick shine.
and soon.
We expect better of people who call themselves “conservative.”
McCain is disgusting, Rick. I still don’t see how culling McCain from the herd and putting him in the White House is bad strategy though. The tighter the focus on McCainism, the more cogent the rebuttal to it will be I think. Also Baracky is wack.
F you too buddy. Noone on the internet has a fuckin claim to fame about “I make a difference”. Only people that have that are wearing a fuckin uniform.
nishizonosho-go
That’s a really anemic way to look at things, ConservativeHero person. And really just very wrong.
With McCain/Fred/Primaries – honestly it wasn’t a fair fight. The media was pushing McCain big time – and then Huck for a while. The media was all over who they felt confident would be a poor choice for the Republicans. They did what they could do defeat Fred by merely ignoring him … which came across largely, to the public, that Fred didn’t want it. Perception is reality and all that.
Same with Obama to a large degree. Which is exactly want anyone with a functioning brain predicted would be the result of McCain Feingold and other such campaign reforms.
I wouldn’t have pegged feet for the one to say it, but I’ve heard this kind of comment directed at a lot of the radio show hosts too–the thought that Rush or Shawn or Mark, or now Jeff, might have picked a candidate to back to champion true Conservatism.
I think it’s an impulse that reflects poorly on the people who are supposed to be the Conservative leaders, the RNC and the Republicans in Congress in particular — people sense a vacuum and want it to be filled, even if the people they are turning to for that role are either not appropriate or simply not comfortable assuming that role. Then again Mike Gallagher is pushing for a Talk Radio Summit to try to unify a message–a mistake, I think.
If we accept Karl’s 16 year change election model, then this many not be entirely a symptom of poor leadership (though I will NOT argue that the leadership has been what it should be). Those that blog and listen to talk radio are the high-info voters mentioned often here, and they tend to be the stalwarts in the right-left divide (this includes the liberals that still listen to conservative talk radio like me in the early 90’s). It’s also a relatively small group, proportionately. The majority of the population are low-info voters and they are the ones who have driven the nomination of John McCain. And it may not be a bad thing, no matter how disappointed many of us high-info types are with it.
JFK, Carter and Clinton, aside from party and some other commonalities, the biggest trait they share is that they all won their respective elections. They also did it running against the status quo opponent (1960–Nixon, 1976–Ford, 1992–Bush the elder). This is one of the motivations behind trying to pint McCain as McBush.
If the country truly want’s change, then McCain is the candidate from the Republican slate with the highest potential to win and upset the pattern by going with it rather than bucking the trend, as it were.
I hope no one minds that I’ve just regurgitated great swatches of Karl, Jeff and Ric Locke, though perhaps I’ve put it all together in a somewhat different way.
By the way it is not a chicken hawk meme to consider everyone here saying they “make a difference†by simply blogging or voting.
So you consider violence to be the only solution?
“If you provide me with a link RTO where the recruiting goes up after 911 I will gladly eat my words.”
Can’t. Like I said, you don’t know how recruiting works.
I think Carin has that exactly right about Fred. I was surprised though that Pablo has said he ascribes to the Fred didn’t want it school of thought. This makes me wonder if maybe I didn’t miss something.
I don’t think it’s a bad strategy at all, feets. He’s well enough hated by his own caucus that the chance of him coming up with something as stupid as McCain-Feingold and getting it into law is rather low. In fact, I believe that whatever he tosses at Congress as a “program” will be quickly larded with killer amendments by his own caucus, forcing him to either veto his “own” proposals or compromise what pass for his principles.
I’ve disliked McCain a lot longer than Jeff has (unless Jeff is much older than I believe him to be) and voting for McCain won’t be any pleasure at all. He’s just the lesser by far of two very unappealing weevils.
“Only people that have that are wearing a fuckin uniform.”
As someone who wears a fuckin uniform, you don’t know what you’re fuckin talkin about.
You wrote maybe two posts for Fred
Which was twice Fred’s effort.
Jeff, if you’re not getting shit on your shoes, you’re not doing it right. And you know what it is to do it right.
Oh. I hear you RTO, but I don’t think that’s quite speaking to where my rant was coming from. I guess I should have been more honest in my reply to Jeff. He said…
If I’m honest I would have to say that that bothers me. He’s an important voice and all he has to do is say he’s not voting, and that’s just unavoidably telling people to stay home. It’s tacit, but it’s no different than paying Gossip Girl to have somebody drink some Fiji water. People identify with cool people and then next thing you know they’re emulating them. That’s what kind of bothers me way more than his not being very vocal during the primaries. But it’s off my chest for real. It’s not like my new theme song. I don’t mean to make a big deal here.
#227 guinsPen
Heh. Fred was just disgusted enough with the process to prove himself the right guy for the job. We really shouldn’t ever elect anyone as President if they’re willing to run for President. If we keep this up, we’re gonna have a scandal where the POTUS is under the Oval Office desk and an intern is in the chair.
I thought goldstein refused to vote for McCain and was going to move to Idaho? Is this his announcement of a flip-flop (if so, will the regulars here, who worship him like the libtards worship Obama, suffer a crisis of confidence?)?
I may have been reading too much into his post, but as Capt Renault said “welcome to the fight”.
Oh, and as an occasional lurker, might I express a little shock in the idea that RTO trainer listens to Mark Levin? Mark seems a bit shrill for you, RTO.
#
Comment by RTO Trainer on 7/9 @ 8:41 pm #
“Only people that have that are wearing a fuckin uniform.â€Â
As someone who wears a fuckin uniform, you don’t know what you’re fuckin talkin about.
I only ever said that making a difference is not blogging. You want to take that a different way go ahead. I view this as cheerleading at best, hating on the home team as worst.
I don’t mean it as a criticism of you feet. I save that for the people on the radio who are plainly angry–THAT kind of an impulse to seek a leader tells me that they are only fit to be led.
We could still nominate Fred by acclamation at the Convention.
Oh. Got it. I think I should go to my quiet place now though.
I do know a little about recruiting by the way. I was also in a Drill unit for a hot minute. Ask them about the brain drugs they let the privates get while they try to hang themselves with the freakin floor buffer.
CH, I didn’t take you statments teh wrong way–you just don’t understand what’s going on.
At best you’re ignorant. I suspect you’re likely stupid though.
NOW GET OFF THE BLOG YOU BIG DOPE!
It’s all about the entertainment value, Pancreas.
Clearly you don’t lurk occasionally enough.
“I do know a little about recruiting by the way.”
If that’s true but you asked for a link to show increaded acessions anyway, you’ve settled teh matter for me, you are stupid. Ignorance can be cured with education. Stupid is forever.
There’s still the possibility that you are ignorant though, if you are also a liar.
Sorry, got to post #45 and read Jeff’s clarification. Good to know the move to Idaho is still on, as Idaho is some kind of pretty place to live.
ConservativeHero, you are a fraud and a fake and everyone knows it, so quit pretending you’re relevant and embrace your role as PW fool.
Dance monkyboy, dance!
Oh yeah you are the only true freakin man on this BLOG. hahahha this is fuckin stupid. Here let me increase my douchebag radiance and type in all caps. I JUST SAID TYPING ON A BLOG IS NOT MAKING A DIFFERENCE. IT IS NOT. SHIT THAT IS WHY PEOPLE WEARING THE UNIFORM GET ACCOLADES, IS CAUSE THEY AIN’T SITTING AT HOME. HELL ENJOY IT. JUST LIKE SOME PEOPLE GET A RACE CARD YOU GET A FUCKIN SMART CARD AND GET TO ENJOY THE BIG PX.
PS. You were right about my radio acronym spelling and the new listing of 42L which was reclassed as 42A. I am not a freakin commo guy and hopefully I will never be. Where the hell by the way do I get my free Rosetta Stone off the AKO website?
I only ever said that making a difference is not blogging.
ConservativeHero is Yoda?
But Claude Shannon is the fo’shizzle.
If you’re looking for Rosetta Stone on AKO, you’re barking up the wrong website.
E-mail me at my .mil address (billDOTwhite) from yours and I’ll tell you where to find it.
Making a difference can come in many forms. Hell, a viral, 40 second clip on YouTube, if done right, can sink one of these two candidates.
Pancreas —
Go back and re-read the bit about moving to Idaho. Note the DVR comment. And the follow-up sentences.
Also, keep in mind the implied referent — threats by liberal elites to move to Canada in 2004.
Add it all together.
Reassess.
I am just talking for myself. I totally feel like a pussy when I sit back here and just type online about what I do.
At this late stage of the thread (and the EtOH) is the fact that very few people seem to be picking up on the notion that ProggHero and CH are the same critter.
I dunno. Maybe it’s method acting. Maybe trying to refine an understanding of perspective.
In any case, the really telling bit is the inclination that Hiro Protagonist has to mimic forms without grasping at underlying thought. It’s very PoMo in a way. It will be interesting to see how it turns out.
Also, CH, if you are feeling pussily-inclined, then why not step up and do something. At the bare minimum, if you come back here having done something more than cheerleading, you’ll get your props. However, recycled chickenhawk bits aren’t exactly a compelling argument either logically or morally.
I am just talking for myself. I totally feel like a pussy when I sit back here and just type online about what I do.
As BRD pointed out, maybe you feel like a pussy because you are a pussy, hiding behind fake identities and parroting cliches, afraid to voice a real opinion.
For example, CH/PH could have been learning a new language two hours ago….
I’m not altogether that hostile to our local Hiro, but it’s kind of fascinating to watch an exploration unfold.
I lack for a good comparison, but if any y’all recall PJ O’Rourke’s book, Give War a Chance, he speaks of a visit to Belfast. You can read the bottom paragraph and change on page 26 and the wee smidgen of text at the top of page 27, and in an odd way, it kind of encapsulates this business of the Heroes.
Sorry, but if you’re gonna run in my circle, your parodic efforts best be up to snuff. Otherwise, I don’t even hardly notice ya.
BECAUSE OF THE SUPERCOOLNESS-ITY!
Do me a favor? Just hold this for a sec.
Well it appears most everyone missed Jeff’s point that the left’s principled outrage at the O! will suddenly evaporate by Friday.
#247
Then go join one of the services hotshot. Put yer money where yer mouth is.
. Yes, dammit he is a flipping bitch. But I am so frustrated with our political set-up which demands that candidates neurotically eschew any principles (principles are radical!) while attempting to appeal to some fabled “middle America†by straddling policy ideas and being for them before they were against them or whatever.
As for the FISA flip-flop, that was a mess of the Dems own making. They could have chosen to address it differently from the beginning. Rather than turn Bush into a civil-rights-stripping, torturing dictator that is lying about the existence of terrorism to run a fascist America, they could have simply said, “we respect what he is trying to do here, but we would like to tweak his methods”. Which is what they obviously DO think, considering how they’ve actually voted.
It was no “political process” that stripped the principles out of Obama on this one. It was Dodd’s pandering, and the inability of the Democrats to tell the far left (netroots) anything they don’t want to hear that brought Obama to the point of promising a filibuster in the first place. He voted on principle, he pandered out of choice.
BRD, I got that PH is CH is a formulaic parody. As Jeff said, if the parody ain’t good, it gets ignored.