Sometimes, less is more.
The latest polling data from Gallup suggests that Americans overwhelmingly prefer that the government focus on improving overall economic conditions, as opposed to taking steps to redistribute wealth. Moreover, a majority of those making over $30,000 tend to agree that the government is doing too much (a figure generally consistent with the 2004 presidential exit poll data).
John McCain may have shot himself in the foot with his habit of admitting he is no expert on the economy, but presidential elections turn more on setting a direction than the minutiae of economic policy. McCain can point out that Barack Obama’s tax proposals involve tax hikes of at least $2 trillion over the next 10 years. And while Obama claims he wants to redistribute wealth by taxing “the rich,” he already voted this year to hike taxes on people making as little as $31,850 annually.
Taking positions on the role of government regarding the economy supported by at least a majority and as high as 84% of Americans should be a no-brainer. And John McCain is just the guy to do it.
(h/t Memeorandum.)
Comment by B Moe on 6/29 @ 10:05 am #
…should be a no-brainer. And John McCain is just the guy to do it.
Heh.
Comment by The Lost Dog on 6/29 @ 10:24 am #
McCain. Dole. Yawn.
McCain needs to be frantically searching for someone to light a fire under his ass.
Comment by JohnMcC on 6/29 @ 10:56 am #
He should pay his taxes.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 11:28 am #
Actually, that was a trust in his wife’s name. And I though O! said even wives were off limits.
Comment by SevenEleventy on 6/29 @ 12:02 pm #
Actually, that was a trust in his wife’s name. And I though O! said even wives were off limits.
☻ had his fingers crossed, just like he did regarding the public financing of his presidential campaign.
Comment by daleyrocks on 6/29 @ 12:18 pm #
Where is Paul Krugman when you need him?
This Gallup Poll cannot be allowed to stand!!!!
Check it for hanging chads.
Obviously 84% being against income redistribution would never be obtained in a N.Y. Times poll. What kinds of amateurs are these people at Gallup? I’ve never heard of them!!!!!!
The rubes answering poll just don’t know what’s good for them.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 12:32 pm #
Mr. Cap ‘n Trade has no head for this sort of thing. Pick a good vice president and then have an aneurysm is a lot the soundest economic course.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 12:36 pm #
Karl, did you watch MTP today?
Chuck Todd is singin my theme song.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 12:38 pm #
religion is simply anti-libertarian.
by inviting the theocons into the house, the republican party has become anti-libertarian.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 12:47 pm #
That’s extreme really, nishi. McCain is well-positioned not to marginalize the religious right but to redefine it. This would be a huge contribution to our politics, and really is one of the biggest and best rationales for his campaign. A McCain victory would decidedly recontextualize perceptions of the influence of evangelicals in the party. Baracky and his Christian hate would only energize and radicalize the religious right. For real, if you want to advance your agenda, voting Baracky is really shortsighted.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 12:52 pm #
nishi, social conservatives used to be in the Dem tent. As a result, they controlled the House and the Senate for most of the least libertarian period in US history. Just sayin’.
Comment by McGehee on 6/29 @ 1:00 pm #
Intolerance of what other people believe is what’s anti-libertarian.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:01 pm #
no.
the beautiful symmetry Karl.
the theocons won the 2004 election for the repubs and now they will lose it for them.
feets….religion is anti-libertarian.
if the republican party is the party of the religious social conservatives, it cannot be the party of libertarians.
mutually exclusive sets.
science and technology are penultimately libertarian.
thus the republican war on science.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 1:02 pm #
Oh. Except intolerance of people who believe in cap ‘n trade is a lot libertarian though.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:03 pm #
Karl was libertarianism ever a plank in the democratic party platform?
didnt think so.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:03 pm #
Mcgeehee, take the definition of libertarian up with chuck todd.
he is doin the talking.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 1:05 pm #
nishi,
social cons have been in the tent since 1980. and since your big issues are escr and not teaching ID is public schools, I’ll note that libertarians should be against federally-funded research and public schools. You obvs know jack about political history or libertarianism, which is why you get so little respect here.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 1:07 pm #
Religious social conservatives are not cartoons. They pay taxes and buy gas and they want jobs for their kids. Whatever non-libertarian streak they may have way more often takes the form of I told you so on social policy issues than any proactive effort to legislate morality. They’re more watchdog than martinet, if you for real watch what they do. Watchdogs are important.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:07 pm #
Karl, Ponnuru thinks that the theocons cannot be expelled from the republican party.
they are the new base.
so the libertarians will leave.
Comment by McGehee on 6/29 @ 1:07 pm #
…out his ass, apparently — otherwise you wouldn’t be agreeing with him.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 1:07 pm #
libertariansism as such was never a plank in any party platform. The closest it ever came was the Goldwater 1964 campaign — which was one of the biggest electoral blowouts of the 20th century, paved the way for Medicare, Medicaid, etc.
Again, you have not a clue as to what you’re writing about. It’s pathetic, really.
Comment by McGehee on 6/29 @ 1:08 pm #
Expelling people from your party is a good way to lose elections.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:08 pm #
Karl, my issue is the convolution of religion with government.
in any form.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 1:09 pm #
Oh, I forgot to mention the Libertarian Party. Wonder why…
Comment by McGehee on 6/29 @ 1:10 pm #
“Opposition to” isn’t necessarily “intolerance of,” as you know.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:10 pm #
Oh relly Karl?
why does every consevative i’ve read cite libertarianism as conservative doctrine?
Goldberg cites it, even.
Comment by McGehee on 6/29 @ 1:11 pm #
…says the self-professed Muslim who wants to kick everybody out of politics who doesn’t agree with her.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:11 pm #
isnt the republican party supposed to be the party of small government and freedom of the individual?
Comment by McGehee on 6/29 @ 1:12 pm #
“Republican platform” is not necessarily “conservative doctrine.” Especially in 2008.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 1:12 pm #
nishi, a McCain victory would a lot make “theocons are the new base” sound kind of silly. Baracky wants nothing more than to piss off Christians so he can have a foil for his phony move to the center is all. McCain is the real deal in this respect. Unitey.
Comment by McGehee on 6/29 @ 1:13 pm #
An apparently temporary development that COINCIDED WITH the “theocons” becoming part of the GOP base.
Imagine that.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 1:15 pm #
Your issue is not the convolution of religion with government. If it was, O!’s 20 years at the crypto-Marxis Hate Church would bug you, but it doesn’t.
And if you’re thinking of replying that it doesn’t show up in his speeches, etc., ‘et me point out to you that Larry Craig never did speeches about what he was doing in airport mens’ rooms and Vitter never did speeches about his love for prostitution, either. When pols are somewhere they shouldn’t be, they don’t publicize it; when they get caught, they deny and stonewall.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:16 pm #
i dont want anyone’s religion in government, not yours, and not mine.
and neither did the Founders.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 1:16 pm #
nishi,
Now you’re conflating libertarianism as a party plank with what intellectuals consider conservative doctrine. Idiot.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:17 pm #
O! tried to keep his religion private and separate.
that is what i want everyone to do.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:17 pm #
not me, Chuck Todd.
he said it.
Comment by McGehee on 6/29 @ 1:18 pm #
Then you are intolerant of your own beliefs as well as other people’s. That may not be anti-libertarian, but it isn’t exactly sane either.
Comment by McGehee on 6/29 @ 1:19 pm #
Read my lips: WHO THE FUCK CARES WHAT CHUCK TODD SAYS?
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 1:19 pm #
The Founders didn’t want any religion enshrined in government, but they didn’t want it banned from the public square either. There’s truckloads of history on this, not that you waould be awaare of any of it. Idiot.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 1:19 pm #
Climate change is a religion. And a far more proscriptive religion than anything a Christian has ever imagined. It is jihad. Be afraid.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:21 pm #
feets, dont be delusional.
wat they teach in extrapolation and forecasting class is to look at the trend over time.
Comment by The Lost Dog on 6/29 @ 1:24 pm #
“Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 12:38 pm #
religion is simply anti-libertarian.
by inviting the theocons into the house, the republican party has become anti-libertarian.”
Baloney.
Your fantasies not withstanding.
I find it hard to believe that someone with your intelligence could be so fucking stupid.
Go with the stereotypes. That gives you the meat required to pursue your fantasies.
Nishidiot is such a perfect handle for you.
Keep looking down your nose. The reality is that you are sticking your head “where the sun don’t shine”.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:24 pm #
The Founders deliberately weakened religion.
They had just come Europe, ‘membah?
Literally centuries of religion based civil warfare.
If they could have written it out they would have.
Didn’t you read the link from the Cato institute?
damn i hope i bookmarked it.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 1:24 pm #
O! tried to keep his religion private and separate?
The guy is citing the Sermon on the Mount as justifying his position on gay marriage, you delusional idiot. He’s sending out mailers showing him speaking from a church pulpit and citing Scripture, you moron. That’s just two on a very long list you’re ignoring because O! gives you the O! Nitwit.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 1:25 pm #
I are not delusional in my head. I swears for real. Look at the second chart especially and then look at yours again.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 1:26 pm #
nishi,
Considering I’ve published a paper on the the subject, and edited more, from some of the nation’s top scholars in the field, I know what you’re saying — and it’s a grotesque exaggeration. Cato is not going to be the most objective source on-topic, for that matter.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 1:28 pm #
Oh. I meant the third chart. But really all the charts tell the same story.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 6/29 @ 1:33 pm #
They had just come Europe, ‘membah?
Moron.
Maybe you should put those ‘leet math skils to work.
A) the Jamestown colony was founded in _______.
B) The Constitution was ratified in ______.
C) The current year is _____.
D) B – A = ____.
E) C – B = ____.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:33 pm #
Read me
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 6/29 @ 1:35 pm #
Maybe you should read that, nishidiot.
Oh, right: you can’t read.
Comment by maggie katzen on 6/29 @ 1:37 pm #
are you really that bored guys?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:39 pm #
feets, hunnie, that is media exposure, not votes.
and any media exposure is good inna way, cuz it gets the candidates name recognition higher.
Karl:
1. If the Founders wanted xianity to be the religion of state, why didnt they make it so?
2. By “just come from” I mean all the culture of the Founders had ever historically experienced was theocracy, oligarchy, and religious civil war.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 6/29 @ 1:41 pm #
2. By “just come from†I mean all the culture of the Founders had ever historically experienced was theocracy, oligarchy, and religious civil war.
Translation: “I have been exposed as an illiterate, innumerate idiot with the historical sense of a fruit fly. Again.”
Have a nice day, hunnie!
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 1:42 pm #
Oh. I guess I don’t know how this works exactly. Marketing is so complicated.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:42 pm #
the sermon on the mount analogy is not O’s personal religion.
it is an attempt to appeal to the precepts of xianity to stop religious discrimination against homosexuals.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 6/29 @ 1:44 pm #
the sermon on the mount analogy is not O’s personal religion.
Liebot.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:45 pm #
Brooks
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 1:46 pm #
Homosexuals deserve to be just as unhappy as everybody else. This is why gay marriage.
Comment by maggie katzen on 6/29 @ 1:47 pm #
chaff!
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:48 pm #
This is the republican base now.
Working class people, religious people.
Not country clubbers, not academics and scientists, not the highly-educated, not the young.
And not libertarians.
the sooner you realize this, the sooner you can recover.
the Republican party is becoming the party of Dr. Pournelles 40percenters.
so deal.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 1:49 pm #
David Brooks. Because David Gergen is just too extreme. All that testosterone I guess.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 1:52 pm #
nishi,
You trying to lecture me on the history of church-state religion in the US is perhaps the silliest thing you have ever done on this blog.
Nothing you have written conflicts with comment #39. If you don’t get that, you need to do more reading at places other than CATO. I would teach you a remedial class on the subject, but you would have to pay me.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 1:54 pm #
Working class people are the same people that drill oil wells.
Sing along with the common people,
sing along and it might just get you through,
laugh along with the common people,
laugh along even though they’re laughing at you,
Because you think that poor is cool.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 1:55 pm #
As for the history of church & state in Europe, my essay on black liberation theology expressly notes it in pointing out that BLT draws from a German pre-Enlightenment tradition, as opposed to the views of the Founders. Too bad you have your head so buried you can’t grasp it.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 2:08 pm #
Karl, O! is not going to enact legislation based on BLT.
If I think where everyone goes to church is their own private personal bidness, why should i give a rap where O! went to church?
Comment by daleyrocks on 6/29 @ 2:10 pm #
So nishidiot derailed a thread about how 84% of Americans are against income redistribution, a firm plank of Obama’s, within ten comments to rant about her perceptions of religion.
Nice job you blinkered pop fashionista sufi nutjob!
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 2:11 pm #
as for #39, the Founders might have wanted to ban religion from the public square, but new they couldn’t.
religious oppression only makes it grow stronger.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 2:11 pm #
knew they couldn’t.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 6/29 @ 2:15 pm #
“1. If the Founders wanted xianity to be the religion of state, why didnt they make it so?”
Because they founded a Christian nation with a secular government, you retarded marmoset.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 2:16 pm #
but daley this is about redistribution
That is why O! will win, even tho 84% are against redistribution.
Because the GOP has offered nothing.
The dems may be wrong, but at least they are offereing something.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 2:16 pm #
nishi, you are continuing to expose your complete ignorance of this topic. Seriously. You trying to argue with me about this topic is like me trying to lecture you on genetics. That’s how stupid you sound from your ignorance. You are embarrassing yourself. Again, people who based their revolution on being endowed with inalienable rights by their Creator did not want to ban religion from the public square. And there are many historical examples of the Founders mixing religion and politics. Idiot.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 2:18 pm #
show me where the USA is designated a “Christian nation” by the Founders.
O great experts on socio-political history.
;)
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 2:18 pm #
Taxing capital gains for fairness is very black liberation theology approved. Also “eradicating global poverty” as the cornerstone of our foreign policy. This is religion not economics. Also compulsory national service. Not very libertarian, this Baracky.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 2:19 pm #
based their revolution on being endowed with inalienable rights by their Creator
than why didnt the Founders just say “God”?
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 2:20 pm #
To note just one example, Connecticut and Massachusetts had official churches into the 1800s.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 2:20 pm #
Taxing capital gains for fairness
erm, nope, that is standard democratic party policy.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 2:21 pm #
nishi,
It’s called poetic license, dipshit.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 2:22 pm #
so Karl? isnt that just federalism?
show where the Founders designate the USA as a “Christian nation”.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 2:22 pm #
You know, what? I’m done wasting my time with this dipshit today. Her stupidity is as irremediable as it is obnoxious.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 2:23 pm #
This is the democratic party that sanctifies polar bears and beachfront property and offers sacrifices to appease the tides. Freaky religious fanatics.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 2:23 pm #
so, Karl, are judges applyin “poetic license” in their interpretation of the Framers words?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 2:24 pm #
haha!
run Karl run.
punk’d
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 2:24 pm #
One last comment. nishi, you have erected more strawmwn about “God” and semanticlally what a Christian nation is than there are scarecrows in Iowa. Take your clownshoes somewhere where there are morons who might buy it.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 2:25 pm #
nishi,
Jeff is out of town and I’;m this close to banning your sorry ass. Being persistenly stupid is not the same as winning an argument. Idiot.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 2:32 pm #
But those are for real strawmen. Baracky’s antagonism to Christianity should have a voice here. Especially since I’m kinda done with NPR.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 6/29 @ 2:33 pm #
“Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 1:48 pm #
This is the republican base now.
…. not the highly-educated,”
Fuck you, you retarded marmoset.
Comment by Darleen on 6/29 @ 2:36 pm #
religion is anti-libertarian.
if the republican party is the party of the religious social conservatives, it cannot be the party of libertarians.
mutually exclusive sets.
good lord, the sheer idiocy of that statement is breathtaking! nishi gleefully keeps reaching new lows.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 2:38 pm #
But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.
Let me repeat what I’ve said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country.
With Rev. Wright’s retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 6/29 @ 2:39 pm #
“Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 2:08 pm #
Karl, O! is not going to enact legislation based on BLT.
If I think where everyone goes to church is their own private personal bidness, why should i give a rap where O! went to church?”
Because Rev. Wright hates you.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 6/29 @ 2:40 pm #
You trying to argue with me about this topic is like me trying to lecture you on genetics.
She doesn’t know anything about genetics, either. As has been amply demonstrated on numerous occasions.
Comment by Darleen on 6/29 @ 2:41 pm #
nishi smears libertarians as being amoral people.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 2:42 pm #
Baracky’s love is profound.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 6/29 @ 2:44 pm #
“Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 2:18 pm #
show me where the USA is designated a “Christian nation†by the Founders.”
“The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation”.
Comment by Darleen on 6/29 @ 2:46 pm #
#39 Karl
nishi deliberately ignores (as did the Chicago Tribune in its whining about SCOTUS’s 2nd amendment ruling) that the Bill of Rights was specifically written to secure individual rights and limit government attempts to usurp those natural rights. The 1st amendment specifically secures the right of a person to be religious, to express their religion and to limit government interference with religion.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 6/29 @ 2:46 pm #
“Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 2:23 pm #
so, Karl, are judges applyin “poetic license†in their interpretation of the Framers words?”
Just the reactionary leftist ones.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 6/29 @ 2:47 pm #
“Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 2:24 pm #
haha!
run Karl run.
punk’d”
You just don’t get it, do you, you reatrded matmoset.
Pitful, just pitiful.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 2:47 pm #
America is not a Christian nation like carbon dioxide is a pollutant.
Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 2:48 pm #
Author Stephen Mansfield:
Given that I had to browbeat her into admitting she doesn’t know much about the Constitution before, you would hope that some growing-up would eventually occur. But apparently not.
Comment by Darleen on 6/29 @ 2:49 pm #
nishi must suffer from dementia from some sort
the “Christian nation” thing as been discussed numerous times … “nation” refers to the people, and there is no denying that Americans as a whole, their heritage, traditions and beliefs, are overwhelmingly Christian.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 6/29 @ 2:50 pm #
Christian nation, secular government.
It ain’t real hard to understand.
Comment by B Moe on 6/29 @ 2:54 pm #
The Founders deliberately weakened religion.
They had just come Europe, ‘membah?
Literally centuries of religion based civil warfare.
If they could have written it out they would have.
We also “membah” why they came from Europe.
Hint: they weren’t looking for jobs.
Comment by daleyrocks on 6/29 @ 3:16 pm #
Plus I don’t think that income redistribution is a very libertarian concept in spite of nishidiot’s successful attempt to derail the thread.
I would temporarily ban the twit until Jeff gets back.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 3:21 pm #
Ohnoes. She’s not some energy vampire you can just unplug. She’s an emissary of Baracky, whose love is profound. And also I think she gives more than she takes. I really do.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 3:23 pm #
Besides how would I ever read David Brooks otherwise?
Comment by Rick Ballard on 6/29 @ 3:29 pm #
“And also I think she gives more than she takes.”
Like Typhoid Mary? The utility of a foil diminishes rather quickly unless there is some intelligence on display. I’m with SPB – no evidence of actual intelligence has been produced.
Playing with a Skinnerian pigeon or one of Pavlov’s pups is rather boring. If an experiment were involved, it would be assigned to a grad student of rather limited imagination.
“Oooh – look, she pecked 28 times without any corn that time.”
Not very dramatic.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 6/29 @ 3:30 pm #
Is it just me or does the nishicreature completely ignore each and every time she’s bitchslapped?
What a retarded marmoset.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 3:31 pm #
She didn’t bring her A game today exactly is all. Who doesn’t have days like that? Boy I sure do.
Comment by B Moe on 6/29 @ 3:36 pm #
I would like to see someone address how we might use current conditions and forecasts to our advantage in trading with China. Devalued dollar, higher transportation costs, and a exploding Chinese consumer class could be used to even up the current trade imbalance it seems to me.
Comment by Rick Ballard on 6/29 @ 3:38 pm #
C’mon, happy, you know there’s no ‘A game’. Unless your referring to the minors. Even then ‘pick up’ is more accurate.
How the hell did Volvo manage to produce a car as small as that C30 that still get less than 20 mpg? That’s a real engineering feat. I noticed that the same model sold in Europe has an engine option that lifts the mpg to 52. Shrewd of them to keep it off the US market. That or it won’t meet EPA standards.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 3:39 pm #
Importing less oil cause we’re drilling our own is a lot the elephant in the trade imbalance room I think. This is because oil is very expensive lately.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 3:42 pm #
Oh. Hey. I beg your pardon, Baracky promised her a rose garden. Along with sunshine, but there should be a little McCain, sometimes I think. I think her critique of McCain is a lot lacking.
You’re right about the C30. I don’t get it at all. The sort of rule of thumb with Volvo is you trade fuel efficiency for safety, but 19 mpg is freaking ridiculous.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 3:43 pm #
Oh crap. I meant *not* drilling our own. I should go eat something. Koo Koo Roo I think.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 3:44 pm #
Oh crap again. I had it right the first time. See what I mean about that not bringing the A game thing.
Comment by B Moe on 6/29 @ 3:48 pm #
Importing less oil cause we’re drilling our own is a lot the elephant in the trade imbalance room I think.
Unless we can drill enough to impact the world supply, I really don’t see any relief there. It doesn’t seem either rational or feasible to sell oil to ourselves at below market prices just to subsidize our waste. We need to drill now I think to prepare for future emergencies, but changing our habits is the best long term solution.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 3:54 pm #
It’s just every barrel we produce is a barrel we don’t have to import. Plus, jobs. Jobs are key, really. The market price is a whole different deal, but cheap, plentiful energy should be the stated policy.
Also, does science and technology are penultimately libertarian really mean what nishi says it means? I don’t get that one. I think she meant quintessentially or something.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 3:55 pm #
Oh. Science and technology are quintessentially instrumental to the production of cheap plentiful energy is where that was going.
Comment by B Moe on 6/29 @ 4:02 pm #
Science and technology are quintessentially instrumental to the production of cheap plentiful energy is where that was going.
Agreed, but I have become convinced that nukes in the short term (whispers so he doesn’t set nishi off) and nanotech for the long term is the way to go for most energy needs. Petroleum is becoming too valuable to waste on trips to the grocery store.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 4:04 pm #
Bacterias can make oil. Later, I mean. There really are no worries, ask me. Except for those stupid we hate energy Democrats.
Comment by B Moe on 6/29 @ 4:07 pm #
The bacteria that eats algae and produces hydrogen is the one that has my attention.
Comment by Rick Ballard on 6/29 @ 4:09 pm #
Was AGW/Climate Change science? It doesn’t appear to have been. Is the fear generated by a handful of PhD’s babbling about the potential “danger” of nuke plants (while living on a sphere warmed by an uncontrolled nuclear reaction) “scientific” or just neoLuddite extrapolation against the horror of the false Malthusian paradigm so dearly beloved by those who can almost, but not quite, think?
The current situation wrt energy is politically generated and will have to be resolved through politics. Drilling and building nuke plants would be as much a political statement as an economic statement.
One might give some consideration to the idea that the current oil prices may result in a political shift strong enough to tamp the watermelons down for a bit.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 6/29 @ 4:14 pm #
We need to drill now I think to prepare for future emergencies, but changing our habits is the best long term solution.
I have to disagree with you there. The US is just way too geographically dispersed and climatically harsh to reduce our energy use very much (European models won’t work — Oregon is larger than the UK, Texas is larger than France).
See this graph. Note that Canada (beloved by leftoids for some reason) has a higher per capita energy consumption than the US. Australia also has a very high per capita consumption.
The countries which have a (relatively) high standard of living with (relatively) low energy consumption are generally small, densely populated countries with congenial climates. For example, France and Russia use about the same energy per capita, but France is a much better place to live. Most of that is due to density and climate. If we were to reduce our per capita energy consumption to the same level as France, I’m afraid we’d be down in Russian territory when it comes to quality of life.
High per capita energy consumption correlates with a high standard of living and high GDP better than just about any other variable.
If I were made energy dictator, here’s what I’d do:
1) Drill now, definitely.
2) Get the Alaskan natural gas pipeline on-line.
3) Start building nuclear power plants as fast as we can crank them out.
4) Give seed funding to a whole lot of small, blue-sky future energy generation and storage projects, such as Polywell fusion. Most of these won’t pan out, of course, but one might, and it’d be a lot better than continuing to pour money down the rathole that is ITER.
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Comment by Karl on 6/29 @ 4:29 pm #
#101:
Pilgrims: Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do.
Can Howard Zinn STFU now?
Comment by B Moe on 6/29 @ 4:37 pm #
I have to disagree with you there. The US is just way too geographically dispersed and climatically harsh to reduce our energy use very much…
But we are also very wasteful, at least in the greater Atlanta metro area where I live. Long, solo commutes in gas hogs are the norm here, and you learn to avoid schools like the plague because of the insane lines of people who won’t put there kids on the bus. Shorter commutes, more efficient cars, more efficient travel and shopping plans, better public transportation… we could cut our energy needs dramatically and not really change our quality of life that much by just being a little more intelligent about the way we live.
Comment by Darleen on 6/29 @ 4:37 pm #
but changing our habits is the best long term solution.
Ah, but B Moe, what habits would that be?
Jimmy Carter’s sweater method is a no-starter from the beginning. Not because conserving is foolish but because conserving was never really what Carter/Gore/O! had/has in mind. It is an excuse to miromanage individual citizens’ lives. Government controlled thermostats, banning individual cars, taking away single family homes from the middle class and forcing them to move to inner cities.
It is Medieval feudalism, where O!, the philospher king replaces the warrior king and his barons enforcing the green code amongst his vassels.
For their own good.
Comment by B Moe on 6/29 @ 4:42 pm #
Ah, but B Moe, what habits would that be?
I try to remember the conservation and effeciency practiced by my depression era grandparents, personally.
Comment by Darleen on 6/29 @ 4:43 pm #
B Moe
I live in So. Cal. I commute 26 miles one way to work. There is NO public transportation that would take me to work. Most people take the opposite direction than I do. My husband’s work is within 8 miles of home, so he has the short commute. I drive a car that is getting 30/31 mpg on the freeway. No one from my institution works my hours and lives near me.
I do NOT take extra trips anywhere on a whim. If I have shopping to do, I do it on my way home so it doesn’t add more than a couple of miles to my commute.
Jerry Brown would LOVE to Kelo out all the single family homes in the state and make everyone live cheek to jowl in tiny apartments or condos.
Comment by B Moe on 6/29 @ 4:45 pm #
And I am not espousing government programs. Not at all. I am just saying people are going to have to change their ways eventually I believe, and the sooner we get started the easier it will be. You don’t believe me, ask the dude who made buggy whips.
Comment by B Moe on 6/29 @ 4:49 pm #
Then you aren’t the people I am talking about, Darleen. I am talking about the caravan’s of SUV/pick-ups/big cars commuting from Athens to Atlanta everyday with one person in the car. Or, as I said, the half mile lines of idling SUVs at any public school in the morning or evenings dropping off kids too spoiled to ride the bus. Not everyone in this country is that wasteful, many of us are frugal, but there is room for improvement for sure.
Comment by Darleen on 6/29 @ 4:50 pm #
Moving from buggy whips to automobiles increased individual freedom, not decreased it.
If people are resisting giving up their homes and their cars, understand the real reason for the resistance.
Comment by B Moe on 6/29 @ 4:56 pm #
If people are resisting giving up their homes and their cars, understand the real reason for the resistance.
Understood, but I don’t see giving them up, just not taking them for granted as we have in the past.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 6/29 @ 4:59 pm #
I don’t know. As it is right now, we’re projected as using over 21 million barrels of oil less each day than we did last year. And we used 10 million less per day in 2007 than we did in 2006. SO reducing waht we use is possible–we’re already doing it.
That doens’t mean that we should not drill more now. Use less, produce more seems like a workable plan to me to buy the time still needed to find the really big solution, that is doubtless out there, for transportation energy.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 6/29 @ 5:06 pm #
I get what you mena B Moe. My broher and I carpool. I drive the 5 miles to his home and we share a car the next 10, takeing turns. We have 2 other co-workers that live near my brohter and we’ve tried to get them involved. The each drive big pickups and ride alone. They’ll have to decide that only filling up once a month, rather than every week, is worth the minimal loss of independence in their movement.
Comment by Rick Ballard on 6/29 @ 5:18 pm #
RTO,
Something haywire with your numbers. 21 mpd is total current usage. We are using slightly less this year than last yearbut It is most likely elasticity of demand rather than efficiency effecting the change.
BMoe – I agree with the general thrust of your premise with the proviso that one of the “habits” which needs to be examined quite carefully is the actual necessity of someone traveling to the job rather than working from home. Too many companies are still thinking in terms of “sight” control of productivity when other tools are available and quite reasonable in terms of cost.
Comment by Darleen on 6/29 @ 5:41 pm #
B Moe
I actually do understand where you are coming from. It’s just that the same rhetoric is used by Jerry Brown and ilk in their signaling their intentions in holding people responsible, even if they are doing everything they can. For them, it isn’t enough until private cars are extinct. Which also explains the kind of schziod public reaction they have to nuclear energy and fuel cell cars — they do NOT WANT CHEAP ENERGY. Period.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 6/29 @ 5:48 pm #
Rick, you’re right. I should have said XX million barrels per month.
Comment by Ric Locke on 6/29 @ 5:58 pm #
Y’all just don’t get it.
IN TERMS OF DOLLARS GDP PER KILOWATT-HOUR, the United States is the most efficient economy in the world — and that INCLUDES all the SUVs and one-ton dually pickups with seven-liter engines. Look up the statistics for yourselves (the Census Bureau has some numbers, the CIA Factbook others).
Part of that is because time is money. Yes, people do stupid things with cars, including taking their kids to school instead of subjecting them to random assault on the school bus. Nevertheless, traffic jams and all, private automobiles let us spend more time working and less time squeezed mindlessly into a “public transportation” tincan.
Could we improve? Definitely, and we will. But even if we make enormous improvements, they won’t be in the cut-by-half range. We are NOT gonna double our energy productivity. We might gain ten or fifteen percent, but double ain’t gonna happen — and if we cut our energy use enormously we will inevitably cut our GDP as well. Translation: lots of people out of work, and a general contraction of our economy.
And no, we can’t drill our way out of this, but that’s because drilling isn’t enough. We need badly to start drilling, and start putting other energy resources on line, because that’s the only way we’re going to convince the world-wide energy speculators that we’re serious about our energy policy. As long as our politicians continue to sing the BANANA Boat Song the price will keep going up.
Regards,
Ric
Comment by Rick Ballard on 6/29 @ 6:06 pm #
“they do NOT WANT CHEAP ENERGY. Period.”
Absolutely true. It’s much easier to have your
block commissarcommunity organizer work in a tight geographic area – let’s call it a prog fief. Theblock commissarcommunity organizer is in charge of distributing “free” housing, medical services and food in exchange for his “constituents” wearing a light and fashonable collar. Oh, and showing up every now and then to vote themselves a bit more “free” housing, medical services and food – to be dispensed by theblock commissarcommunity organizer, of course.Prog scum aren’t necessarily opposed to cheap energy, of course. Only to the disgusting degree of personal freedom enjoyed by those who have refused
the serf’s collarto make the requisite sacrifices necessary to achieve a “just” society.Comment by geoffb on 6/29 @ 6:35 pm #
Personal coping with energy costs.
From 1991 to 2001 I lived 25 miles from my work. I was on a small lake in the sticks and loved it even though the commute was not good, especially in winter. I had a pickup in ‘91 but later got a small subcompact that got over 40 mpg to save money. By 2000 I’d driven it into the ground so I got a 4 cyl. Neon with 30mpg.
In 2001 got re-married and we decided her place would do us better so we sold mine and my commute went to 18 miles, mostly expressway.
In 2006, tired of commute, we bought a place less than 3 miles from my job. It’s has more than twice the room of the old one but better insulation and mechanicals keep the energy costs roughly the same. Our total energy costs are down and I have more free time. Government didn’t do this, I/we decided ourselves what was important and what we could do without. That’s America, that’s freedom. And of course YMMV.
Comment by Darleen on 6/29 @ 6:39 pm #
B Moe
A quick question…what is the distance one has to live from school before being allowed on the bus?
In So. Cal, in order to cut buses to save a few bucks, anyoneless than 2.5 miles away had to walk. And this where school districts have ripped out lockers so you find 70 lb 6th graders (middle school) lugging 25 lbs of books to and from school in backpacks.
Sometimes it isn’t about ’spoiling’ but about saving a kid’s spine.
Comment by Darleen on 6/29 @ 6:45 pm #
geoffb
certainly, everything is a matter of tradeoffs. We are close to my husband’s work, but not mine. And I would never want to live near mine because it really is in a very crappy area (I’m glad I work behind barbed wire) and only 1/4 mile from the San Andreas fault.
A metrolink train station is only 3 miles away from my work, but that’s two bus rides PLUS the train doesn’t come this way in the morning, nor go to where I live in the evening.
Comment by Rick Ballard on 6/29 @ 7:04 pm #
For those who like numbers: 105 million Americans spend 50 minutes (round trip) commuting per day. That means roughly 5 mbd of gasoline which requires 7.5 mbd of oil out of the 21 mbd total usage.
As Ric notes – you can’t get ‘there’ (50% reduction) from ‘here’, and if you could, the 50% reduction in commute usage would amount to a net reduction of 18% in total oil consumption. I would note that the national workforce is forecast to increase at less than 1% per year for the next ten years. An achievable goal of a 15% reduction in commute would wind up as a net -5% reduction or 400 kbd.
BTW – Drilling our way out at current consumption levels would require tripling production.
Comment by geoffb on 6/29 @ 7:11 pm #
Darleen,
I agree, I was trying to show by personal experience that not only does everyone have to make decisions/trade offs but those change all the time and in unexpected ways.
I had expected to retire on the quiet little house on a lake but love intervened and I ended up in a nicer, larger home with a railroad track across the street and a lovely woman who actually loves me back. God only knows why. I think I have a better deal now.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 7:11 pm #
The only real suggestion I have cause I’m not a very suggesty person is that rental contracts should disallow all bills paid thingers, at least going forward. Not necessarily refitting things that aren’t set up for it. This just makes sense to me, like not running with scissors.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 7:12 pm #
go right ahead.
but before u ban me Karl, can u show me plz where the Founders designated the United States of America as a “Christian nation”?
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 7:15 pm #
Also if they are going to subsidize hybrids it should be scalable to the length of a commute someone has. This is because there are wacky liberal douchebags that buy hybrids even though they don’t drive very much. Which is fine, but you shouldn’t subsidize misallocation I don’t think.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 7:15 pm #
and so what?
Jefferson went to church, big wup.
freakin everybody went to church back then.
that has no bearing watsoever on my question.
show me what i asked, O Great Constitutional Scholar.
;)
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 7:16 pm #
Oh hey. A lot of your better nations are Christian nations really. This is just something I’ve noticed.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 7:17 pm #
But hey we were talking about the energy problem. It’s pretty serious.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 7:19 pm #
im going with Cato unless you show me something better.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 7:20 pm #
Cato gave me a Constitution yesterday at that convention thinger. She said know your rights and handed it to me. I said thank you very much that’s neat.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 6/29 @ 7:22 pm #
nishi is the <a href=”http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/18376.asp?q=U.S.%20Olympic%20Trials:%20Flash%20Michael%20Phelps%20Wins%20Barnburner%20Over%20Ryan%20Lochte,%20Both%20Under%20World%20Record”>Michael Phelps of irredeemable stupidity, it seems.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 6/29 @ 7:24 pm #
well, that sucked.
pasteomatic:
http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/18376.asp?q=U.S.%20Olympic%20Trials:%20Flash%20Michael%20Phelps%20Wins%20Barnburner%20Over%20Ryan%20Lochte,%20Both%20Under%20World%20Record
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 7:25 pm #
What’s the significance of lane 9 I wonder.
Comment by McGehee on 6/29 @ 7:28 pm #
Let me give it a try.
Comment by McGehee on 6/29 @ 7:29 pm #
Slart, don’t copy-and-paste from a program that inserts “smart quotes” instead of the plain vanilla, ambidextrous variety. WP doesn’t recognize those as HTML.
Comment by McGehee on 6/29 @ 7:31 pm #
The funny thing is, she thought that was a threat.
Comment by McGehee on 6/29 @ 7:31 pm #
Oh, she said “with,” not “to.” Damn.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 6/29 @ 7:33 pm #
I hate that. It’s outright obnoxious. Usually their links are fairly well-behaved.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 6/29 @ 7:35 pm #
What’s that supposed to mean?
Comment by happyfeet on 6/29 @ 7:38 pm #
Oh. They handed me a little copy of the Constitution. Sort of pocket-sized. I will have it handy now for those everyday civil liberty emergencies, like for when I’m peaceably assembling and saying stuff.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 6/29 @ 7:42 pm #
Oh, I thought you were bringing out some new-to-me slang. And here I was going to congratulate you.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/29 @ 8:04 pm #
*snort*
The semi-literate is hoisted on the petard of language.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 6/29 @ 8:13 pm #
im going with Cato
Isn’t he too old for you?
And aren’t you too old to be using a junior high expression like “going with”?
Comment by Slartibartfast on 6/29 @ 8:14 pm #
Oh, snap. I missed that one.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 6/29 @ 8:15 pm #
Bets on the Cato ref whooshing over nishi’s head?
Comment by Slartibartfast on 6/29 @ 8:19 pm #
I thought Cato died back in ‘73.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 6/29 @ 8:40 pm #
Nah, he testified at the Simpson trial, remember?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 6/29 @ 8:47 pm #
“Comment by nishizonoshinji on 6/29 @ 7:15 pm #
and so what?
Jefferson went to church, big wup.
freakin everybody went to church back then.”
Christian churches.
Which is why we’re a Christian nation.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 6/29 @ 8:48 pm #
“I thought Cato died back in ‘73.”
Nope, it was 149 B.C.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 6/29 @ 9:15 pm #
Or 46 BC, depending on which one you mean.
Damned Romans and their unoriginal names.
Comment by maggie katzen on 6/29 @ 9:18 pm #
there’s also clothing
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 6/29 @ 9:21 pm #
Hmm…. clicked around on there for a while, but couldn’t find the uncensored section.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 6/29 @ 9:24 pm #
Wiki says ‘73. Fucking Wikipedia.
Comment by B Moe on 6/29 @ 10:58 pm #
can u show me plz where the Founders designated the United States of America as a “Christian nation�
The founders were brilliant folks, but unfortunately they lacked the foresight to predict laser focused binary thought such as you are blessed with.
Comment by thor on 6/29 @ 11:14 pm #
Except for Salem witches.
Comment by maggie katzen on 6/29 @ 11:17 pm #
prolly some “Native Americans” as well.
Comment by Rusty on 6/30 @ 5:04 am #
I don’t know about christian, nishi, but certainly deist. Where do our rights come from?
Pingback by Advice for McCain on 6/30 @ 6:00 am #
[...] data indicates all sorts of fun ways to attack Barry O., starting with the fact that he voted earlier this year for a tax hike on “rich people” [...]
Pingback by No Runny Eggs » Blog Archive » The Morning Scramble - 6/30/2008 on 6/30 @ 6:08 am #
[...] Karl offers a sage piece of advice to McCain on the economy; less is more. [...]
Comment by Slartibartfast on 6/30 @ 6:55 am #
I’m guessing they were Intelligently Designed-in.
Pingback by Tennesseefree.com » McCain says Obama’s word “Cannot be Trusted”; (well, you don’t want to be anywere near The Busâ„¢, either…) on 6/30 @ 7:29 am #
[...] the Gallup poll data to Karl (where in comments he gives Nishi a well-deserved shellacking after her threadjacking the post to [...]
Comment by daleyrocks on 6/30 @ 10:30 am #
Silly me, I thought the important thing about the Gallup poll was that 84% of the respondents opposed income redistributionist policies of Obama and the rest of the Democrats.
You never know when you’re going to get into a discussion about science and religion around here I guess.
It’s too bad nishi doesn’t take her favorite topics to her own blog to perseverate in peace and savor the traffic.
Comment by Karl on 6/30 @ 10:37 am #
nishi,
Whatever you’re on for the Aspergers needs to be adjusted. You keep repeating the same fallacious premise — that a nation is defined solely by its government — as though it is gospel.
And skipping over the fact that Jefferson was attending a church on the floor of the House of Representatives is the proof that your meds situation must be effed up, nitwit.
Comment by Karl on 6/30 @ 10:43 am #
Incidentally, for everyone’s edification, Jefferson wrote about the “wall of separation” to the Danbury Baptists for political reasons. The ‘wall” formulation actually originated with the Baptists in North America. The Baptist Church in America was (co-)founded by Roger Williams, who was also a founder of the country (and Rhode Island, fwiw). Williams was a pietist who wanted a wall to keep government out of religion, not vice versa. ‘Cause the Founders were a diverse crowd, contrary to what some at CATO might think. Thus, when Jefferson referred to the wall, he was talking about pretty much the opposite of what people attribute to that letter now to serve their agenda.
Comment by Karl on 6/30 @ 10:54 am #
And while I’m at it, I should note that Jefferson was influenced much more by Locke than Hobbes. And Locke comes out of the same pietist tradition as Williams.
Comment by Rusty on 6/30 @ 3:22 pm #
#181
I don’t think nishi has gotten that far in history class, yet.
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