June 28, 2008

Flip-Flop for Change? Yes, we can! [Karl]

According to the Washington Post, Barack Obama’s sudden shifts on public financing and electronic surveillance are not flip-flopping.  Rather, Obama is being pragmatic… with nuance (yes, David Sirota is even quoted dropping the n-bomb):

[A}fter eight years of Bush's uncompromising approach to the issues, Obama aides say they believe he can turn his subtler approach to his advantage. 

*** 

"After eight years of ideology driving decision making, is pragmatism reform? Yes, it is," said an Obama adviser in Chicago.

This new line of malarkey potentially creates two practical political problems for Obama. 

First, his threadbare record contains few examples of Obama actually acting in a bipartisan way before it became politically expedient to tack to the center for the general election. 

Second, this new line spins contrary to the old spin that his lack of experience is a plus, rather than a minus.  Obama’s big policy difference with Hillary Clinton in the Democratic contest was that he — standing outside the Beltway swamp — had the judgment to oppose the invasion of Iraq, while Clinton voted for it in aprt because she was mired in the swamp.  Indeed, Obama’s more forgiving 2004 stance toward Sens. Kerry and Edwards on Iraq was supposedly based on the fact that Obama did not have access to the intelligence reports in 2003 — but Obama supporters now despair that Obama is casting his FISA flip-flop as being based on his having seen and learned the degree to which the terrorist surveillance program is necessary to help prevent terrorist attacks.  Indeed, among the nutroots, the hardcore Greenwaldian critique of experience or expertise in foreign policy is a recurring theme.

However, once the howls from the nutroots and the guffaws from politcal junkies subside, it may well turn out that Obama can sell that to voters pursuing a mirage of changeyness where bipartisanship reigns.  After all, there does not seem to be much evidence that the media will be interested in publicizing that even Obama’s spin is now flip-flopping.  Nor has there been much evidence that John McCain’s campaign is sharp enough to hammer it enough to force media coverage of it.

Update: Insta-lanche!

Posted by Karl @ 11:29am
80 comments | Trackback

Comments (80)

  1. The simple answer to Obama’s flip-flop on FISA was that they pointed out to him that a large part of NSA’s job was keeping tabs on all the plots to assasinate the POTUS and if he wanted a FISA warrant on every sniff of a plot against him should he win, or for the telecom companies to refuse datamining requests on their number databases then fine.

    Of course O! will be so nice to Ahmadinejad and Assad and the like that threats from that quarter will decrease, but their may just be a few new threats arising.

  2. A little bird told me that Markos Zuniga is already on his way under the bus….
    he just doesn’t know it yet.

  3. why hasn’t McCain recruited Fred as a surrogate? Fred endorsed him and all, which was very nice of him.

  4. The simple answer to Obama’s flip-flop on FISA was that they pointed out to him that a large part of NSA’s job was keeping tabs on all the plots to assasinate the POTUS…

    O!

  5. They call O! Flipper, Flipper, faster at lying,
    No-one you see, is smarter than he,
    And we know Flipper, lives in a world full of wonder,
    Flying there-under, under the sea!

  6. So even when he changes to mirror your positions he is wrong? Wow talk about bitter clingers.

  7. “Flip flop O!’s taking a bath, lying on a Saturday night…”

  8. “So even when he changes to mirror your positions he is wrong? ”

    I’m more worried about O!’s bus.

  9. So even when he changes to mirror your positions he is wrong?

    When he changes position purely for political expediency, yes.

  10. A little bird told me that Markos Zuniga is already on his way under the bus….

    Indeed I’d say we’ve already heard the first THUMP, and are just waiting for the second one.

  11. Obama speed bumps!

  12. The slickster did the same thing but it wasn’t called flip-flopping then. O!, the new messiah never knew about or cared for any of the things he’s asked. He just makes it up as he goes. Tomorrow he will make up whatever comes to mind, then. Whatever he said before was never actually said.

    Just as Moe before him spoke through divine connections, so too, does the O!.

    This guy is interviewing for the job of decider in chief, it would be nice if we could figure out how he is likely to decide when it really matters, and he/we can’t get a do-over

  13. Karl, you wrote:

    “but Obama supporters now despair that Obama is casting his FISA flip-flop as being based on his having seen and learned the degree to which the terrorist surveillance program is necessary to help prevent terrorist attacks.”

    Now, within the past week, I think I saw here a post that quoted from a 2007 intelligence bill sponsored by Obama. The bill would require the government to notify a subject within 7 days (down from six months) that he or she is being investigated. Forgive me if I don’t have that quite right, but that’s my recollection. At any rate, how can Obama square his new position on FISA wiretaps in the interest of national security with his bill significantly shortening the time within which a terrorist subject must be notified of an investigation?

    Shifting gears, at the beginning of the week before this past week, McCain was hammering Obama on his waffling on foreign policy and the Iraq war. Obama’s camp had Susan Rice on Morning Joe and later the same day on Laura Ingram’s show. Rice was horrible on both. Newsbusters reamed her on the Morning Joe segment. Now, I realize the campaign quickly shifted to energy and Supreme Court cases, but has Obama thrown Rice off the bus or, at a minimum, sent her to the back of the bus or even back to the bus depot? I really can’t stand that person.

  14. So lying is now subtle.

    FOR TEH NUANCE!!!!

  15. ReactionaryZero just doesn’t get it, does he?

  16. So even when he changes to mirror your positions he is wrong? Wow talk about bitter clingers.

    Says the one who’s bitterly clinging to the false Messiah who’s been lying to him.

    O! snap!

  17. “So even when he changes to mirror your positions he is wrong? Wow talk about bitter clingers.”

    Given how he has no compunction about lying, there’s nothing to stop him from changing his mind again when he’s in office.

    This guy ran as a leftist for his leftist base, is pretending to be a moderate for the general election and will go back to being a leftist as soon as he’s in office. So, no, him just telling me what I want to hear isn’t enough.

  18. “After eight years of ideology driving decision making, is pragmatism reform? Yes, it is,” said an Obama adviser in Chicago.

    Another word for “ideology” is “consistency”. What this says to me is that O! will be a jellyfish, following the currents and never making headway against any opposition he can’t browbeat with the cultural poison of accusations of “racism”.

  19. The guy is an amazing politician. Do any of you think McCain or Clinton could have survived attending a white version of Trinity? Do you think they could have pulled off the political ju jitsu of using it as an opportunity to talk about race, then 3 weeks later disavow the church for the good of its congregation? You have to give the guy credit for being good.

  20. No I don’t. The only reason Obama can pull of such “political ju jistu” and McCain can’t is that the press gives O! a free pass on it. Remember how hard the press was trying to tie Hagee around McCain’s neck? And how grudgingly they reported *anything* in re: Trinity? When you’ve got the entire media in your pocket you can pretty much say/do whatever you want and yesterday’s lies will vanish down the memory hole in favor of these lies.

    Gosh, I feel kinda used right now… I’m a longtime reader/ firstime commenter who came out in response to what I’m 99% certain is a parody. I guess politics’ll do that to a fellow….

  21. Why do you think I am a parody?

  22. PH,
    I guess I’m just a little more cynical than you. Doing a two step around the fact that you (supposedly) obliviously sat in a whitey-hating, “Amerikkka sucks” church for a couple of decades because it was politically advantageous for you to do so until somebody noticed what was going on there isn’t something I’d typically applaud. But like In said, I’m just cynical that way.

  23. “Comment by ProggressiveHero on 6/28 @ 4:08 pm #

    Why do you think I am a parody?”

    Because you’re a reactionary leftist.

  24. “19. Comment by ProggressiveHero on 6/28 @ 3:54 pm #

    The guy is an amazing politician. Do any of you think McCain or Clinton could have survived attending a white version of Trinity? Do you think they could have pulled off the political ju jitsu of using it as an opportunity to talk about race, then 3 weeks later disavow the church for the good of its congregation? You have to give the guy credit for being good.”

    It’s easy with the MSM in the bag. And winning the media is easy for a lefty; the Dems always win the media.

  25. PH,
    why do I think you’re a parody? For pretty much all the reasons everyone else has stated: your amazing facility with (often old and discredited) talking points, your seeming compulsion to comment on every thread (often just as comments seem to be tapering off), your knee-jerk defense of all things O! against the slightest provocation (c’mon, man, not even his most ardent supporters are *that* knee jerk)… if you’re not a parody, then I must congratulate you, I suppose – you’re the Ultimate Democrat.

    -Fredo

    PS If you are indeed the UD, can you clear something up for me? Does the standard-issue “Coexist” bumper sticker — you know, the one where all the letters are made out of religious symbols — go on the lefthand side or the right?

  26. “Leave the gun. Take the cannolis.”

  27. I do not have that bumper sticker. I have the one with the date bush leaves office.

  28. That’s President Bush, asshole.

  29. You seem like you do not like me NObrain, whats the problem?

  30. “Comment by ProggressiveHero on 6/28 @ 4:27 pm #

    You seem like you do not like me NObrain, whats the problem?”

    Other than you being a reactionary, a commie and an asshole, nothing.

    Besides, I enjoy baiting the leftist fucknozzles.

  31. And it’s N. O’Brain, asshole.

  32. - Speaking of guns, that issue was a crystal clear example of the Candy Mans “pragmatism”. After years of anti-gun legislative votes and the entire primary campaign season up the the SCOTUS decision, he was, without doubt avidly against. The quotes are out there and legion if you’re that interested. Then SCOTUS comes down the other day, and his immediate response?

    “…well I have said that the American people under the 2nd certainly has the right to bare, while at the same time it would be understood that the right could be limited by reasonable conditions…”

    - Obviously the man blows with the wind, at least during this campaign cycle, what he’ll do under any given circumstance,l should he be elected, I have not a fucking clue. And that PH, is why people don’t buy his razmatazz. You can listen to hours of his brilliant strong delivery, and when hes done you have no idea what the man really believes, even worse if you compile a number of his speeches over any length of time. The guys a political cameleon, pure and simple.

    - BTW, that little caviat at the end of his comment on gun ownership is his way of covering his as, since the SCOTUS did not rule in detail concerning states rights in the argument. But that is already in court in Chicago, and I can clearly here him saying, when ever it gets heard and decided with the Supremes:

    “….yes, well, and I want to be crystal clear about this, as the Supreme court has ruled, the Constitution holds the 2nd as _______, when it comes to our indeividual rights, at the state level.

    - He will fill in the blank as either “protected” or “subject to limits” shortly after he sees how the SCOTUS rules.

    Change you can set your watch by! O!

  33. “The guys a political cameleon, pure and simple.”

    On a Clan Robertson tartan.

    Which makes it really amusing.

  34. - You know I have an idea of how to put this guys bullshit verbal tap dancing, and split tongue politics in a clear and easily seen way. Heh.

    - Yes, yes I do, and I think if we do it, people will take one look, and simply laugh their asses off at him.

  35. Fight the Smears against Obama!

    http://www.fightbarack.com

  36. You have to give the guy credit for being good.

    Still, it remains to be seen if O! can top Jim and Tammy Faye Baker as to longevity, not to mention a guy named P.T. Barnum. But with Affirmative Action points, White guilt, hallowed nuance, and fawning groupists and groupies at his side, O!’s version of “practicality” might indeed someday be found historic – possibly even meriting a group Darwin Award!

  37. He isn’t flip-flopping. He’s weather-vaning – whereever the latest opinion poll is he spins to point that way.

  38. - Hey!….NO, was that a sneaky ChickenVane joke?

  39. Says ProggieZero

    The guy is an amazing politician. Do any of you think McCain or Clinton could have survived attending a white version of Trinity? Do you think they could have pulled off the political ju jitsu of using it as an opportunity to talk about race, then 3 weeks later disavow the church for the good of its congregation? You have to give the guy credit for being good.

    That’s not being good, that’s having a double standard. If Clinton or McCain could not have survived a white TUCC, then Barack shouldn’t survive a black TUCC. You see, PZ, we don’t care WHO the prejudiced nuts are. What we care about is that the standard applied is the same, not based upon the color of their skin.

    Kind of like what MLK said in that nice speech of his.

  40. PH has to be a parody. He has to be sitting home and smirking while he types this stuff, no one is that naive.

  41. Why do you think I am a parody?

    We’ve told you. Repeatedly.

  42. Obama is going to vote for the FISA statute because he wants those powers for himself if he is elected President. And just like the MSM is defending him for it now, when he starts using those powers to attack his enemies and ordinary Americans the MSM will cluck approvingly and tell us it is all for our own good. Just like they did in response to the abuses of the Clinton administration and the early days of Bush W.

  43. Re 42: Obama does not have the courage to take a position on controversial issue. He will not be present to vote on the FISA bill.

  44. ummm, I am astonished that people keep saying Obama is running to the center. He has run far, far past that. If he did not have his original statements from, say, last night (just kidding, say 2 months ago) and these were his ONLY positions stated, he would be running as a conservative Republican. And probably could have been nominated by the Republicans.

    Lets remember one thing-if the dems hadnt drafted 30 or 40 conservative people to run in ’06, they’d still be minority. Even the Senate with Tester and Webb is making them 51. The USA is not a liberal country and Obama knows it. His challenge is to obscure his record, which with the MSM, can be done.

  45. As time goes on, more are tiring of the Obama schtick. He’s a Chicago Democrat-machine puppet who has spent years tying their strings to himself. His stage performances, his empty and often stupid rhetoric (rise of the seas stopping, no s#!+?) are getting pitiful. Hope he doesn’t count on stupid to win the election.

  46. (Cue “James Bond Theme Music” as The Man of the Hour enters ‘Casino Royale Capitol Hill’:

    “The name is Obama…BARRY Obama.”

    Casino Manager: “Your chemin-de-fer winnings and complimentary carbon credits, sir.”

    Barry Obama: “Thank you very much. Here’s a little something to buy yourself breakfast at the congressional lunch room.”

    Casino Manager: “Thank YOU, sir!”

    Hillary: “Oooooooh, look at that big pile of money. I’ll bet that’s not the ONLY big thing you have!”

    Barry Obama: “A bit forward of you, madam, but you’re likeable enough. May I buy you a drink? Garcon, I’ll have a very dry Pragmatic Martini–shaken, not stirred–with a twist of Nuance on the side. Make sure you include cooperatively-distilled Guatemalan vodka. The lady will have a Bloody Mary with squeezed organically-grown tomato juice–can’t do too much for the environment, you know.”

  47. “You have to give the guy credit for being good.”

    Heh. The only way he’s “good” is in the way he toes the line for his white liberal creators. Without their protection and the preferential treatment afforded by the racial spoils system, this fellow would be handling divorces and ambulance cases. He has all the substance of a high school student council candidate, of whom I think every time I listen to him speak. At best, he reminds me of O.K. Allen, Huey P. Long’s surrogate in the Louisiana governership when Long left for the U.S. Senate. It as once said that a leaf blew into Allen’s office and he signed it, thinking it was legislation from Long. Oh yeah, for some people, an Obama presidency will be a real gift.

  48. A Thousand Thousand words. Word!

  49. Terrye wrote:
    PH has to be a parody. He has to be sitting home and smirking while he types this stuff, no one is that naive.

    It’s always possible, but I find myself hesitating when thinking that there is no lower limit to how naive, stupid, evil, etc. a person can drop.

  50. Does O! think he’s the Affirmative Action candidate?

  51. Dr. Reynolds did that Lanchey thing again.

  52. Hi all. I just thought that I would ask, where does this Sirota type drop the bomb Jeff already has? And what rates you all so much love on memeo?

    Just curious.

  53. Oh, and isn’t that ‘instalanche’ more like a pebble roll?

  54. It looks like a few people om wonkette won the 300 mil prize already.

  55. …I find myself hesitating when thinking that there is no lower limit to how naive, stupid, evil, etc. a person can drop.

    I know what you mean. But, fortuneately, the “Progressives” are challenging these boundaries on all specified fronts, in the interests of science, and in order to “help” us, no doubt.

  56. Old hat. This type of excuse (Bush did it) over something they made up that Bush did, ergo we can actually do it… fighting fire with fire so to speak… I’ve been hearing it for years over things like Mike Moore and other lies

  57. Oh, and isn’t that ‘instalanche’ more like a pebble roll?

    Speak for yourself, Masui.

  58. J. Peden, are you related to Chris?

    If so, that would explain your personal disappointment.

  59. Speak for yourself, Masui.

    Not looking for attention, especially from a weenie.

  60. Anybody got a link for the Jeff-bomb from Sirota?

    Anybody?

    Bue . . .

    that’s old, no?

  61. Not looking for attention, especially from a weenie.

    Then why are you responding to me?

  62. - Masui. I’ll give the secret battery recipe so you can score the 3 mil.

    - Take a nice fresh unpeeled Russet Potato, let it sit in spring water over night, then when its nice and soaked stick a steel fork in one side and press a copper penny, on edge, half way in on the other side. Attach two jumper wires with alligator clips to the fork and the penny, and then clip the other ends to either side of your ballsac and shove the potato up your ass.

    - Then hop up and down on one foot while you sing the Obama party song to “We are the champions”.

    - You’ll really win the prize, twatwaffle.

  63. - Hmmm…..School server in Houston, or close.

  64. Lay off Masui, we’re in Love.

  65. That Masui would call an Insta-lanche a pebble-roll and not be able to figure out how we get the love from Memeorandum pretty much tells me that s/he doesn’t know much about blog traffic or how Memeorandum works generally.

    I also think that Masui is a little confused about my use of the term “n-bomb” — which refers here to Sirota’s use of the word nuance as quoted by the WaPo. A lefty with no sense of humor. Shocka!

  66. I also think that Masui is a little confused about my use of the term “n-bomb”….

    Both Masui and I thank you for your charity, Karl.

  67. We’re going to be so happy, together.

  68. Then why are you responding to me?

    Kicks and fun to be sure. Jeff’s is a farce blog if nothing else.

    Masui. I’ll give the secret battery recipe so you can score the 3 mil

    Dude, Wonkette three days ago was way better than you. I suggest reading said site more often, just to keep up. And you really truly think you can figure out who I am? Knock yourself out there Big Bang! I’ll sit back and watch.

    Oh, and thanls Karl, for clarifying the n-bamb thing. That’s what I was looking for.

    It figures that you wouldn’t want to link to Jeff’s failed n-bomb.

    Boy, but was that fun.

    J. Peden, nice try but no dice. But seriouly, are you related to that peden guy that lost to Ron Paul?

  69. Getting back to the theme of this post: I personally think that a beached carp could learn a few tricks from any dem politician.

  70. Instalanch is so small, reply is so feeble.

    Jeff, who do you go on?

    Big bang how do you seem to care?

  71. who how who cares?

  72. Hmm. Little flea hopping around wanting attention.

  73. who how who cares?

    And that’s just the kind of eloquence we expect from an Obamabot.

    Masui, the short bus just pulled up. Remember to put your safety helmet on and cinch it real tight before you climb aboard!

  74. Hmmm … just as we thought proggie had defined the lower limits of stepford, uncritical leftist mantras, in walks Masui.

    Must. Lower. Expectations. Again. WHACK!

  75. @ #71

    Consult a urologist, promptly.

  76. Masui’s lower limit expectation = -∞

  77. “So even when he changes to mirror your positions he is wrong? Wow talk about bitter clingers…”

    That Obama has actually … you know … changed … his position from the radically lefty that he has always been is not change we can believe in. Not even the lefty moonbats really believe that. What concerns is that Obama is just lying to uninformed voters about changing his positions for political expediency.

  78. Obama could Heil Hitler and the press would praise him for being nostalgic.

  79. Pingback: Obama fibs and flip-flops on patriotism [Karl]

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