NRO’s Rich Lowry observes that John McCain has been scoring some tactical victories against Barack Obama at the outset of the general election campaign, but currrently lacks what we used to call “the vision thing”:
[T]here’s a sense you never know where McCain is going to be on any given day. Is he zigging toward the center, or zagging right? And on top of this, the campaign feels so defensiveâ€â€all about not being Bush and not being Obama.
All of this is diminishing McCain, who is a serious, impressive guy for all his flaws. With every clever tactic and worthy small-bore proposalâ€â€whether it’s off-shore drilling or the battery prizeâ€â€McCain loses a tiny bit more of his stature and his sense of who he is. He needs to be bigger than Obama to win the election, and he needs his political personaâ€â€as a patriotic fighter determined to fix Washington and win the warâ€â€to come out clearly and unmistakably.
Lowry is essentially correct (imho), though his analysis has two flaws. First, while I have often noted that the public demand for (an ultimately illusory) “change” is what is driving this election cycle, Lowry omits the economy, which is the top issue on the public’s mind at the moment. Second — and perhaps more fundamental — it is unlikely that McCain can suddenly seem “bigger” than Obama, given the candidates’ respective skill sets.
However, Obama finds himself with a problem that is in some ways similar to the one McCain has.  Obama has gotten the nomination in no small part by being “big.” Obama has known this from the outset:
“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views,†Mr. Obama wrote in The Audacity of Hope, his I’m-running-for-president book. “As such, I am bound to disappoint some, if not all, of them.â€Â
This sort of appeal carries a level of political risk. Pete Wehner puts it:
The problem for Obama is that his core appeal has been largely aesthetic; he positioned himself as St. Barack, flying high and high-mindedly above the “old†politics of distractions, divisions, and cynicism. He wouldn’t play the “Washington game.†Obama has been sold to us as post-everything (post-partisan, post-ideological, post-racial, and post-label). If that appeal is stripped away, then Obama will be seen as a deeply and reflexively liberal one-term senator  and as something of a fraud. That combination may be enough to defeat him in a year that should overwhelmingly favor Democrats.
But the risk is more multi-faceted than Wehner suggests. In the past week alone, he has alienated some segment of his base by supporting the bill to update “wiretapping” under FISA. He has alienated some segments of an otherwise friendly media by breaking his word on opting into public financing of his general election campaign (and more casual voters may focus more on the word-breaking than the merits). He is vulnerable to charges of flip-flopping on issues including Iraq (perhaps more than once), Iran and free trade. And his newly-announced “National Security Working Group†of Carter and Clinton retreads is not very Changey at all, with one Obama backer likening them to the Insane Clown Posse of the Living Dead.
None of Obama’s shifts are particularly surprising. With the exception of the public financing issue (which he believes increases his chance to win) they are classic pivots toward the center for a general election campaign. The problem — which almost cost Jimmy Carter the 1976 election — is that a relative newcomer’s flip-flops and shifts may be more damaging to voters’ perceptions of his honesty and trustwortiness than they would be to a more known candidate.
In sum, both McCain and Obama are tacking back and forth to try to capture independent voters while holding onto their base voters for the general election. But they both may be damaging the reform-based images that helped them secure their nominations in the first instance, even before they start trying to damage each other’s reformist cred.
Update: The Washington Post’s Richard Cohen makes pretty much the same points made here. The Wall Street Journal covers Lefty angst over Obama’s recent rhetorical shifts.
Comment by TheGeezer on 6/24 @ 7:07 am #
Good work, Karl.
Hasn’t Rasmussen already declared that Americans want a general do-over since both candidates are kinda, well, yucky?
Comment by happyfeet on 6/24 @ 7:12 am #
Off-shore drilling is not a stature-diminishing “clever tactic” or a “worthy small-bore proposal.” What part of 86 billion barrels of oil does this Corner homo not understand?
Comment by N. O'Brain on 6/24 @ 7:19 am #
“post-partisan, post-ideological, post-racial, and Post-It-label”
In other words, a blank slate.
Comment by Roboc on 6/24 @ 7:23 am #
Is it wrong to want to find a presidential candidate by going on Angie’s list?
Comment by Neo on 6/24 @ 7:25 am #
Say what ? I had to endure all those Obama-affiliated (PA primary) commercials about how he was going to help people at the pump and it’s all backed up with nothing, absolutely nothing.
So the guy whose advisors “don’t believe that there’s much the U.S. can do to bring the prices down†has a 20 point lead in the polls in regard to this issue.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 7:27 am #
Grasping again.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 7:28 am #
Asked which candidate they trust to deal with the situation, 50 percent said Barack Obama and 30 percent said John McCain. Eleven percent said neither presumptive nominee is better on gas prices.
So the guy whose advisors “don’t believe that there’s much the U.S. can do to bring the prices down†has a 20 point lead in the polls in regard to this issue.
Maybe you should take this time to consider you might be WRONNG on this issue?
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 7:31 am #
Asking questions about why Obama may be leading the polls on a given issue is racist neo. Something to consider when looking at polls these days.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 7:31 am #
Which doesn’t mean Obama won’t win the election, because I suspect he will.
Comment by psycho... on 6/24 @ 7:34 am #
Proceeding under the assumption — and it is one — that “moderates” and “swing voters” are actually existing voters, rather than poses adopted by partisans of a certain psychological type, only hurts Republicans.
When potential R voters don’t like the R nominee — which pandering to the imaginary “center” encourages them to do — they don’t vote. Democrats don’t sit ‘em out. Clean-hands proxy violence cloaked in the rhetoric of citizenship/service/duty/etc. — e.g., voting — is the very core of their “ideology,” such as it is. Conservatives, not so much (but still too much).
Right. Almost. But not. And he’s Jimmy fucking Carter.
Obama’s only potential for an electoral (not vote) loss comes from “purple”-state old ladies using McCain as a dildo-Hillary. But there won’t be many of those, maybe not even enough to swing a single state, and they’ll go D down the rest of the ticket.
Even if McCain squeaks in, he’ll do whatever that downticket wants, because it’s what he wants, too.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/24 @ 7:36 am #
Baracky a lot won’t win I don’t think. His defeat is valuable.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 7:38 am #
To who?
Comment by happyfeet on 6/24 @ 7:40 am #
Perpetuaters.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 7:44 am #
The fact that the American people are rejecting your ideas does not in any way shape or form invalidate them. Oh no absolutely not. Hahahahahha
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 7:47 am #
There ought to be a law outlawing perpetuaters.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 7:49 am #
I have an idea that Guitar Hero is a fun diversion, but that it in no way helps make one a better musician. Do the American people reject that? I haven’t seen any polls (which are probably racist anyway).
Comment by thor on 6/24 @ 7:59 am #
Proggy, here at PW you learn to celebrate small victories. When reading Karl’s piece my heart almost skipped a beat. Like finding a rat dancing in your bathtub after pulling the curtains back, it’s the suddenness of the shock. With the dancing rat there’s the realization that you’re not just looking at a rat in your bathtub but one that’s probably in the final throes of rabies, with Karl it’s his braver than brave attempt at neutral political commentary. Both, I attest, are powerful moments.
Recently I’ve advocated for and have been blessed with the return of Dan Collins to PW, who, mind you, is as blind a Republican hack as one will ever meet, a real yuk-yuk O-hammer. But it’s within the Collinsian genre one gets to enjoy more bleedin’ Irish rim shots than my entire gay midget porn collection combined. It’s Dan’s lightheartedness than salves the wounds of his bitter biters.
Dan is back. Karl’s muckraking is straight jacketed. Dance to the music.
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 7:59 am #
I’m gonna go sit next to Happyfeet, so he can keep whispering sweet nothings in my ear about Baracky not winning. It will help me sleep at night.
ProggheroMaybe you should take this time to consider you might be WRONNG on this issue?
Ok … humnnnn … no. Thanks for playing!
The fact that the American people are rejecting your ideas does not in any way shape or form invalidate them. Oh no absolutely not. Hahahahahha
As a matter of fact … no. See, popularity polls do not reveal truth. What percentage of the voting public do you think actually has a CLUE about the way economics work? What percentage could correctly point out Tehran on a map- or even know it is the capital of Iran? (rant alert) Shit, all these “get out the vote” movements have done nothing but get out the uneducated vote.
Obama’s even trolling for the votes of FELONS in Florida. Which way do you think they are going to vote? I’ll give you a clue … they are mostly black. But, yea … I’m sure they are an informed voting black, voting with their conscious and vast understanding of economics.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/24 @ 8:00 am #
I like salve.
Comment by Roboc on 6/24 @ 8:12 am #
Remember these proggish words:
“If you succeed at something stupid is it still something stupid? YES.”
“If you succeed at something stupid is it still something stupid? YES.”
“If you succeed at something stupid is it still something stupid? YES.”
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 8:15 am #
Well even rats have enough sense to abandon a sinking ship.
Comment by BJTex on 6/24 @ 8:18 am #
Proggie cares too much for someone who believes that everything is inevitable.
He either needs a warm woman or a cold man, I think.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 8:20 am #
Thanks for showing us your hatred for homosexuals. Do you still hang them in Texas?
Comment by happyfeet on 6/24 @ 8:22 am #
Do you still hang them in Texas?
No.
Comment by Roboc on 6/24 @ 8:22 am #
Thanks for showing us your hatred for homosexuals. Do you still hang them in Texas?
No, but I’m sure they’d make an exception for you!
Comment by happyfeet on 6/24 @ 8:24 am #
Wait. Sort of. What’s your point?
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 8:25 am #
They still hang homosexuals in Iran, a country which is really only slightly a problem and mostly because they don’t know themselves very well.
I guess what they need the most is a good hug and a copy of Brokeback Mountain. The Iranians I mean.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 8:26 am #
I think you people are just angry that your candidate is closer to my line of thinking than your own. That should just show you how far out of the mainstream you all are. Instead you just get angrier and angrier.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 8:28 am #
Angry people would probably be helped by hugs as well.
Comment by happyfeet on 6/24 @ 8:29 am #
Yup. It’s all pretty reducible to the more base emotions. Cause of the rage, mostly. Also, fire bad.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 8:31 am #
Someone could probably get really reach by inventing some sort of mainstream gps device, so you’d know where you stand in relation to everyone else.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 8:31 am #
really rich even
Comment by BJTex on 6/24 @ 8:33 am #
See? That’s what I mean, proggie. Your friends should do an intervention for your unreasoned anxiety. When you are this worked up during the “Lightbringer©” year of Obama and the landslide victories that have been ordained, you should be much happier and far less prone to anger or jumping to conclusions (like I live in Texas.)
If you’re a guy, get your friends to take you to a strip bar and do tequilla shooters until you throw up and pass out. If you are a woman, two or three hours of the Lifetime Movie Channel, a carton of Breyers and some Valium should be sufficient.
Embrace the coming light! All will be well! Please come visit me at the re-education camp or, maybe, the Free Speech Cages.
Serenity now…..
Comment by BJTex on 6/24 @ 8:36 am #
Now, now, proggie. Constantly proclaiming that others are angry indicates a clear projection of self directed anger issues.
One word: Bongos!
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 8:37 am #
I am not the one with the anger.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 8:41 am #
Oh, I don’t know. You seem pretty angry.
Comment by BJTex on 6/24 @ 8:42 am #
It’s so sad to see you in denial, proggie. Remember, self awareness is the first step to healing.
And orgasms.
Really it’s all going to work out for the best. Progressives shall rule the nation and all of the terrible ills of the coutry shall be banashed by a tidal wave of mediation, diversity classes, racial conversations, really, really gay marraiges, no more war and bobbing for apples.
Deep breath, now! That’s the spirit! (non patriarchal earth and or nature based ephemeral spirit.)
Comment by Karl on 6/24 @ 8:43 am #
As in a prior thread, PH rhinks winning elections is a validation of ideas in some general sense. But I’m guessing that was not PH’s thesis about the 2002 or 2004 elections, for example. At the same time, PH pretty much suggests that both canddidates are basically proogish (in agreement with our host Jeff, btw), in which case the electorate is not really being offered a choice in the first instance.
Comment by Roboc on 6/24 @ 8:45 am #
Give Frogg a break. We’re up to nearly 40 comments without mention of Chimpy McKatrinaburton. I think that’s admirable.
Comment by Karl on 6/24 @ 8:46 am #
psycho,
Although the odds (and the 16-year cycle) favor Obama, the polls do not currently reflect the blowout that you and Ouroboros seem to be predicting. Maybe that will change, but y’know maybe not.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 8:48 am #
Well Karl it is pretty sad that on every issue besides Iraq and judges (which won’t matter anyway due to the makeup of Congress), I could honestly consider voting for him. While not as left as I would like I do not have a problem with him other than those issues.
Well it is sad for you not for me.
Comment by BJTex on 6/24 @ 8:53 am #
Exactly, proggie! We are sad and discouraged and as a good progg you should be offering comfort and sympathy for our emotions if not our positions. Yet you offer nothing but derision and boundless predictions with no milk of human kindness.
Or pie.
Where’s the love, maaaaaaaan? Reach out to the downtrodden and marginalized, dude!
BTW: I like apple and peach.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 8:54 am #
ProggHero would never vote for McCain. It’s sort of sad to see him lying to himself like this. I think McCain’s stance on having Roe vs Wade overturned alone would be deserved of at least one giant puppethead themed denouncement parade.
Comment by alppuccino on 6/24 @ 8:55 am #
I picture ProggHero as Chuckie Adkins and then it all makes sense.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 8:59 am #
With the current makeup of congress McCain would be as impotent as his age would suggest. There is nothing he could do to overturn Roe. Any judge he nominates will be to the left of Kennedy and I think you are all aware of this. Taxes….He could not lower them and any veto he gets will probably be overridden. He would be actually pretty good since any downturns in the economy could be blamed on him. You know kinda like Junior Soprano thinking he was the boss when it was really Tony.
Comment by BJTex on 6/24 @ 9:06 am #
I’m pretty sure that the use of a Soprano’s metaphor objectifies violence and indicates undealt with anger issues.
If you bake a pie, you’ll be less angry and, when you serve it to me, I won’t be quite so sad and hopeless. Bake me the Hope!
Comment by happyfeet on 6/24 @ 9:08 am #
You want you can use my whisk. Just as soon as I get it anyway.
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 9:21 am #
Well Karl it is pretty sad that on every issue besides Iraq and judges (which won’t matter anyway due to the makeup of Congress), I could honestly consider voting for him
And, when Baracky backflips and doesn’t bring our troops home? I’ve got this feeling …
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 9:29 am #
Well if that happens yes I will be angry.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 9:56 am #
As it turns out the political makeup of Congress is changeable, so there are no guarantees that it will remain in the Dems hands. In addition, McCain (the Maverick) has built a career on deal making with the left, so I think you are leaving too much to hope regarding Roe and his Supreme Court picks. No, I don’t think you’d be willing to take that chance.
Would the left trade Roe for Universal Health Care or some other very important thing? I think it might.
Comment by BJTex on 6/24 @ 9:57 am #
Excellent, proggie! You’ve taken the first step in self realized actualization!
Bravo! Now, where’s my pie?
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 10:00 am #
Well if that happens yes I will be angry
Well, if O!$trade; wins, it would prolly be a good idea to get a head-start on the oversized papier-mache puppets.
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 10:01 am #
Drat. messed up the tag. I blame Bush.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 6/24 @ 10:06 am #
No way. That would be like Catholics abandoning the Immaculate Conception; it’s damned near definitional to many of them.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 10:07 am #
Well if Roe could still be saved for some red southern states then maybe.
That was a joke.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 10:07 am #
Eh. Simply overturning Roe wouldn’t outlaw abortion.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 10:09 am #
Education McCain seems much more likely to make a deal with my side than yours. Look at history, he hates you guys.
Comment by Roboc on 6/24 @ 10:11 am #
If the Iraq war is even marginally considered a success, when and if he takes office, he’ll flip. He didn’t get to where he’s gotten today without political expediency. Why change a winning strategy? He’ll just tell’em to get over it!
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 10:12 am #
Hate is really ugly. Maybe if I sent him a muffin basket he’d reconsider his “hates my side” position.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 10:15 am #
I could see him slowly drawing troops back and “claiming” success. That is until we withdrew and the place explodes like you know its going to as soon as we leave. If he does keep even a token force there I would view that as a complete betrayal. I do admit any Prez would want to “claim” victory but I do not see Obama worrying this nut longer than it took him to safely withdraw troops.
And before anyone asks I do not care what happens to that place after we leave. We invaded them, we are the bad guys let them have it back.
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 10:15 am #
I can see it … OBAMA LIED, but we’re ok with it!
Almost it would be a thing of beauty. Moderate Dems would suddenly man-up and start saying things like “Well, we need to finish what we started.” Of course, the media will play along, and instead of stories about soldiers committing suicide, they’ll start bringing up the success .
It’s all too predictable.
Comment by TheGeezer on 6/24 @ 10:17 am #
BJ, you know the shrink told you to avoid at all costs all s&m metaphors?
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 10:17 am #
That’ll sure teach us!
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 10:17 am #
My last was directed at PH.
Comment by Clint on 6/24 @ 10:17 am #
Proggy, just remember these words from a great master, “Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hatred. Hatred leads to suffering.”
So let go of the fear of the oven and the delicious apples and join us in the pie!
Comment by nikkolai on 6/24 @ 10:18 am #
Everyone knows how important these June polls are. They always predict November election results to a tee. Strange, then–PriggHero’s anger.
Comment by thor on 6/24 @ 10:18 am #
Lie is such a strong word. He merely bling-flopped.
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 10:18 am #
And before anyone asks I do not care what happens to that place after we leave. We invaded them, we are the bad guys let them have it back.
BRAVO! For that loverly comment, you win a signed copy of Pat Buchanan’s new book “Churchill, Hitler, and the Unnecessary War.”
Comment by J. Peden on 6/24 @ 10:25 am #
The fact that the American people are rejecting your ideas does not in any way shape or form invalidate them. Oh no absolutely not. Hahahahahha
In my very direct and recurrent political confrontations with certain progg groupists, I finally figured out that they think that I am/must be a groupist, too, and therefore also as dumb as they are, and likewise responsive to groupist tactics. Until then, I was truely mystified as to why they kept saying such transparently stupid things to me.
For example, one guy keeps telling me ominously that “only one percent of people think like you do”. The first time he tried this tact, I simply told him that he had “just made that up”, which he had. But he didn’t get my baseline point, and apparently thought instead that I was responding defensively about allegedly being so far out of the “in crowd”.
So he tried it again weeks later, at which point I simply accepted it graciously as a compliment. The only response he managed was a rather befuddled look on his face.
We still haven’t examined what “thinking like you do” even means, and we never will, because he simply can’t comprehend or employ rational thought.
Eh wot, ProggHero?
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 10:27 am #
I have wondered before if the coverage of this war will change once a new president is elected. I suspect it will, having a warmongering murderer in office you can not believe anything. If there is more uplifting coverage after Obama is elected it will not be because of media bias, but because the general mood in the country will be uplifted. That and new presidents get a honeymoon period. You guys are just grasping again HOPING that he keeps troops there after he wins so you guys can scream that you have been validated. Sorry ain’t gonna happen.
Comment by Roboc on 6/24 @ 10:30 am #
I could see him slowly drawing troops back and “claiming†success. That is until we withdrew and the place explodes like you know its going to as soon as we leave. If he does keep even a token force there I would view that as a complete betrayal. I do admit any Prez would want to “claim†victory but I do not see Obama worrying this nut longer than it took him to safely withdraw troops.
And before anyone asks I do not care what happens to that place after we leave. We invaded them, we are the bad guys let them have it back.
You obviously don’t remember the fall of Saigon. We weren’t exactly recognized as the “good guys”.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 10:31 am #
Obama will never try to continue winning the war on terror, how dare you suggest such a thing.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 10:36 am #
There is no war on terror the entire idea is a way to spread fear and keep people voting Republican. There is simply a group of Islamists that managed to perpatrate an attack on U.S. soil, while bush was in office. Maybe the “WOT” should have been waged on, maybe.. uh…THE GUYS WHO ATTACKED US.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 10:38 am #
Sorry by Islamists I mean fanatical Islamic extremists. I did not mean to offend any practioner of Islam and I am very sorry if I did.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 10:42 am #
Several attacks on the US actually. Some on the Brits, and the Spanish, and the Turks, Israeli’s, Balinese, Egyptians, Germans, Italians, multiple African nations, etc.
Comment by Karl on 6/24 @ 10:42 am #
And we’ll all start Photoshopping people out of photographs! BECAUSE OF THE UPLIFTINGNESS!!!
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 10:43 am #
The current talking point is Iraq was an “engineered distraction”, PH. Do try and keep up.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 10:45 am #
In any case, I am glad to hear that when people stop voting for Republicans that terrorism will stop. That’s really good news.
Comment by Karl on 6/24 @ 10:46 am #
Strictly speaking, the guys who atatcked us killed themselves in the attack. So by PH logic, no further action was required.
BTW, PH where does the USS Cole, the first attack on the WTC, Somalia, etc. fit into your little delusion?
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 10:46 am #
Should we apologize that our candidate inspires people while yours makes people think about the CryptKeeper?
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 10:47 am #
Democrats are pretty good at apologies, so it’s worth a shot.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 10:48 am #
Comment by Karl on 6/24 @ 10:46 am #
Strictly speaking, the guys who atatcked us killed themselves in the attack. So by PH logic, no further action was required.
BTW, PH where does the USS Cole, the first attack on the WTC, Somalia, etc. fit into your little delusion?
They do not fit in anywhere in my “delusion” why should they? We did not start wars over them did we? Would you start a war with England if their soccer team came here and rioted?
Comment by Karl on 6/24 @ 10:49 am #
Ed Guy,
This is of course central to the progg delusion because it absolves them of any responsibility for having to do much when our people are killed by terrorists. A strongly-worded letter, an indictment with no follow-up, maybe the occasional cruise missile, etc. Allows them to focus on the the true evil of the GOP — which is, after all, well-known for hacking off the heads of those with whom it disagrees.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 10:49 am #
If England’s soccer team came over here, who would notice? Don’t be silly.
Comment by Aldo on 6/24 @ 10:50 am #
we are the bad guys let them have it back.
The “bad guys”? Is this an example of that famous prog nuance, or have you just been watching too many cartoons?
Comment by Karl on 6/24 @ 10:51 am #
I do hope PH comes back when O stabs him in the back on Iraq, because any reasonable reading of his statements — and those of his advisers — makes clear we’re not leaving anytime soon.
Comment by JD on 6/24 @ 10:51 am #
Bush is a murderer. We are the bad guys. Kill millions of brown people. Racists. Lying and being corrupt is alright if you are a Dem.
Comment by J. Peden on 6/24 @ 10:52 am #
You guys are just grasping again HOPING that he keeps troops there after he wins so you guys can scream that you have been validated.
Translated: Obama pulling out of Iraq validates PH’s groupist thinking, regardless of actual risks or consequences, and in the face of the perfect record of the Bush policies in regard to preventing further 9/11-like attacks upon the U.S., in comparison to the previous policy’s zero success rate.
Groupthink necessitates betting against a perfect record.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 10:53 am #
Karl,
The GOP wants to enslave your sister’s womb, make people work for a living and allow the rich to keep more of their clearly ill gotten gains. How can so-called terrorism compete with those evils?
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 10:53 am #
Link please Karl.
Comment by Karl on 6/24 @ 10:53 am #
#82: I think you would not dare come out with that sort of immoral drivel if you were speaking to the family of a servicemember killed by AQ on the USS Cole. Or maybe you would. After all, it was just yesterday that you admitted you would vote for a known criminal, so long as he shared your views.
Comment by JD on 6/24 @ 10:56 am #
To the commenter doing the parody titled ProggHero – You are brilliant.
Comment by JD on 6/24 @ 11:00 am #
Baracky seems to be positioning himself to be able to claim that he was in favor of surrendering in Iraq before he was against it. Does he have any positions based on a principle? Never mind. His principles require him to punish success. That much we know.
Comment by kelly on 6/24 @ 11:00 am #
“Sorry by Islamists I mean fanatical Islamic extremists. I did not mean to offend any practioner of Islam and I am very sorry if I did.”
Says it all really.
Comment by Karl on 6/24 @ 11:01 am #
Link please? Hey, try reading those already provided:
If you think O wants to take the blame for a blow-up after a speedy withdrawal, you really are deluded.
Comment by JD on 6/24 @ 11:07 am #
Karl – How do they square that with their promise to surrender as soon as possible, in spite of the recommendations of the generals, like he said in the Philly debate? Never mind. They know he is lying, and they are cool with that.
Comment by Clint on 6/24 @ 11:08 am #
Jeff is that you??
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 11:10 am #
Is calling me a parody on here some sort of insult on here? I have heard it alot.
Comment by J. Peden on 6/24 @ 11:22 am #
Maybe the “WOT†should have been waged on, maybe.. uh…THE GUYS WHO ATTACKED US.
“ps:choosing the battleground by luring AQ to fight and lose in Iraq does not count.”
Comment by Patrick Chester on 6/24 @ 11:25 am #
J Peden wrote:
Which only shows how childish they can be. I mean, “all the cool kids are doing it” is so seventh grade.
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 11:28 am #
s calling me a parody on here some sort of insult on here? I have heard it alot.
It’s just that you are so perfectly nonsensical. Take comment #74 …
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 11:32 am #
So you are calling all 18 million people that voted for Obama nonsensical?
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 11:36 am #
No, just you.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 11:39 am #
Shouldnt you be listening to Mr. FatAssOxycotinUser right now?
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 11:41 am #
Why, is he saying something interesting?
Comment by JD on 6/24 @ 11:41 am #
So you are calling all 18 million people that voted for Obama nonsensical?
Carin was spot on. Nope. They are not here. We are just talking to you. Some of them are not nonsensical.
Comment by JD on 6/24 @ 11:43 am #
Edu Guy – FrogHero cannot imagine anyone on the Right not listening to Rush. His whole imaginary playworld in his head would implode were he forced to think outside of that imaginary world.
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 11:46 am #
I was earlier, thankyouverymuch.
But, Progghero, don’t you think to make the slam on Rush “complete” you need to add cocksucking or some such?
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 11:48 am #
Maybe you should think outside your box and read some Cornell West, a true thinker.
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 11:50 am #
HA. See, it’s comments like that (109) that make me think you are a parody. It’s almost kinda cute.
Comment by guinsPen on 6/24 @ 11:53 am #
Some of [the 18 million Obama voters] are not nonsensical.
Link, please.
Comment by J. Peden on 6/24 @ 11:53 am #
Which only shows how childish they can be. I mean, “all the cool kids are doing it†is so seventh grade.
Yeah, he told me on another occasion when I tried to kindly inform him as to AGW’s fatal flaws, “if you keep talking like this, no one will want to talk to you,” when actually he’s very much more dependent upon me. Then he abruptly went outside and fired up a big slash pile – burning things is one of his favorite obsessions. What a riot! And this guy is 73 years old.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 11:55 am #
Only parody I see is the one your pulling of a “brave” christian soldier. Well only thing missing is actually enlisting to fight your brave occupation of iraq.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 11:57 am #
Cornell West would use the word whitey in a derogative manner I think, which is kind of angry. Come to think of it, Kanye West probably would too.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 11:58 am #
I bet the only reason your not in Iraq right now is because they did not pick the christian crusade to start off in the Bahamas, then you would be all on board huh?
Comment by alppuccino on 6/24 @ 11:59 am #
Shouldnt you be listening to Mr. FatAssOxycotinUser right now?
Uh oh. Is the Saran wrap off of the drug-use issue now? Because you can’t spell coke without O!. Oops. Drugs are bad aren’t they and O! is a coke-head. Oops. People who use drugs are bad too aren’t they and O! likes a little weed after Charlie Gibson makes him look like a retard on national TV. I’m thinking O! even has the waffle-monkey on his back. Oops. I said “monkey”.
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 12:00 pm #
Honestly, Progghero. Put-up, or shut up. You. A VW bus. A Che shirt. And a beret.
Only parody I see is the one your pulling of a “brave†christian soldier. Well only thing missing is actually enlisting to fight your brave occupation of iraq.
To quote the video I linked earlier; Suck my dick. Not exactly a “brave Christian soldier” kinda line, but whatever.
The chickenhawk meme is so 2005. And, not one you want to use around here (at PW). You will get burned.
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 12:02 pm #
Progg – my husband is retired military (22 years) and my bil is in uptraining for his second tour in Iraq. If my sons were to join the military when they are old enough, I couldn’t be prouder.
Comment by alppuccino on 6/24 @ 12:04 pm #
To quote the video I linked earlier; Suck my dick.
Recent surgery Carin, or something new in the fridge?
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 12:04 pm #
PH, you seem to have issues with the British. This is twice in one thread now you’ve tried to start wars with them.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 12:06 pm #
Funny you mention Che…100 bucks says he was and is more inspirational than bush.
Comment by alppuccino on 6/24 @ 12:07 pm #
Funny you mention Che…100 bucks says he was and is more inspirational than bush.
For a gay man, maybe.
Comment by maggie katzen on 6/24 @ 12:07 pm #
I suppose if we were to judge according to body count. possibly.
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 12:10 pm #
To quote the video I linked earlier; Suck my dick.
Recent surgery Carin, or something new in the fridge?
Well, that vid tends to get me a bit over-excited. Makes me wish I had one, so I could use the line. I demand equality. I can use that line whenever I want. WHAT DO WE WANT?
Funny you mention Che…100 bucks says he was and is more inspirational than bush.
Oh, GOD, honestly. What. A. Tool.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 12:14 pm #
You mean god.
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 12:16 pm #
From linked article in the update:
On Iraq, meanwhile, Sen. Obama has been making clear that he favors shrinking the U.S. military presence there, as opposed to trying to quickly eliminate it through an immediate withdrawal.
He favors withdrawing one or two “combat” brigades a month, but the designation is vague enough that it could allow a President Obama to leave potentially significant numbers of U.S. troops in Iraq. Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said he had been prepared to lobby Sen. Obama against withdrawing forces too precipitously, only to find that the senator’s thinking was not that far from his own.
Mr. Zebari said that he had a lengthy telephone call last week with Sen. Obama and that he came away “reassured” that Sen. Obama wouldn’t take steps to jeopardize Iraq’s recent security gains. He said Sen. Obama told him he would “consult very closely with the Iraqi government and with the military commanders in the field” before ordering any withdrawals. “He will not take any drastic decisions, or reckless actions,” Mr. Zebari said.
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 12:17 pm #
I’m guessing Thor. What does everyone else think?
Comment by maggie katzen on 6/24 @ 12:19 pm #
marmoset with ADHD.
Comment by alppuccino on 6/24 @ 12:21 pm #
timmyb
Comment by alppuccino on 6/24 @ 12:22 pm #
PiatoR
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 12:23 pm #
So am I a parody or a SockPuppet? You guys are confusing me you have conspiracy theories than a truther.
Comment by guinsPen on 6/24 @ 12:24 pm #
al-qActus
Comment by J. Peden on 6/24 @ 12:25 pm #
So you are calling all 18 million people that voted for Obama nonsensical?
Tut-tut, PH, that’s but a typical groupist run for desperately wished-for cover, perhaps even the most basic default ploy of the self-deluded groupist. You won’t believe this, PH, but just because you don’t see what you are doing, that doesn’t mean that non-groupists don’t.
Just trying to help a progg, that’s all.
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 12:25 pm #
131 suggests nishi. The spelling and punctuation is correct, but it’s got that nonsense-ities going for it.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 12:25 pm #
More than a truther I mean.
Comment by ProggHero on 6/24 @ 12:26 pm #
Do you tell all those people you named that they are parodies too?
Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/24 @ 12:28 pm #
No, but they were not always so stereotypically clingy to the memes.
Comment by Squid on 6/24 @ 12:31 pm #
Inspirational? I’d say Dubya has inspired the Proggs to more handwaving freakoutery than any president ever. He’s like America’s Kim Jong Il with the polarity reversed.
Of course, a President’s ability to inspire is wholly orthagonal to a President’s policy positions. But that’s something unlikely to occur to Mr. Popularity here.
Comment by maggie katzen on 6/24 @ 12:32 pm #
sometimes, but really, let’s just save some time and bring out the nuke, the Instant leftist Boilerplate
Comment by BJTex on 6/24 @ 12:55 pm #
Maggie, you have performed your public service for the quarter.
Comment by B Moe on 6/24 @ 12:56 pm #
That is until we withdrew and the place explodes like you know its going to as soon as we leave. If he does keep even a token force there I would view that as a complete betrayal.
…
And before anyone asks I do not care what happens to that place after we leave.
…
Funny you mention Che…100 bucks says he was and is more inspirational than bush.
Starting to see a pattern here.
Comment by J. Peden on 6/24 @ 12:59 pm #
You guys are confusing me you have conspiracy theories than a truther.
Oh yeah? Well your wife is so ugly, she has to put a bag over her head just so sleep can slip up on her!
Comment by maggie katzen on 6/24 @ 1:01 pm #
J. Peden, a wife? really?
Comment by Matt, Esq. on 6/24 @ 1:01 pm #
For what its worth, I haven’t been wrong on a presidential election result .. well since I started really following politics (Reagan’s first term). My prediction is McCain whips Obama’s holy ass 53-47%. I think before the election season wraps, most people will understand the significant downsides to Obama and vote with their heads rather than their hearts.
Comment by BJTex on 6/24 @ 1:08 pm #
If proggie is a running parody (and I’ve done a few myself) I will bow and clap for the the shear brilliance of manufactured unseriousness.
If not I still beg proggie to seek interventionn from his/her friends. Such anger and bitterness and no way will they be met expectations signal a potential meltdown. you know, like Greenland glaciers.
I’m concerned about his anger footprint. FOR THE PLANET!
Comment by Sdferr on 6/24 @ 1:12 pm #
My vote for the little it’s worth: Parodist.
One who does mind being caught at it in the bargain.
Comment by Education Guy on 6/24 @ 1:14 pm #
My vote is parody too. In any case, it’s too good not to play along.
Comment by TheGeezer on 6/24 @ 1:19 pm #
J. Peden, a wife? really?
Naw, I figure a junior preppie somewhere, bored, smoking in the basement, maybe feeding sexual obsession with a beat up, torn, and rather sticky copy of “Nuns go really bad” (Man’s Manly Magazine, June, 1967).
Comment by Sdferr on 6/24 @ 1:19 pm #
Who were the great parodists of our civilization? Would Swift count? Voltaire? Who would you put up for such a list? Are there any great parodists working today? Steyn for instance? Will he be remember 300 yrs hence?
Comment by TheGeezer on 6/24 @ 1:20 pm #
That, my firend, depends upon who wins in November.
Comment by Sdferr on 6/24 @ 1:24 pm #
The first piece I ever read at PW was an interview with Sen. Edward Kennedy, linked by Instapundit, I think. I was in tears by the time I finished it.
Comment by J. Peden on 6/24 @ 1:41 pm #
J. Peden, a wife? really?
I know how to mock a progg, too. I can’t be trusted – even stole it from Bo Diddly post mortem.
Comment by BJTex on 6/24 @ 1:45 pm #
What makes it tough to figure is that proggie has the boilerplate nature of the responmses down pat. Whether its contrived or typical unserious prog talking points is the question.
Geezer: We need to resurrect the Dark Lord Rove and the Mason/Dixon conspiracy.
Comment by kelly on 6/24 @ 2:59 pm #
I’m voting PH a parody. A parody of himself.
Comment by McGehee on 6/24 @ 4:20 pm #
FTR, it’s always safe to dub someone like TroggHero a parody, since (as kelly points out) self-parody is always an option.
Thought for commenters like the Zero, it may be more like standard equipment.
Comment by Rusty on 6/25 @ 5:18 am #
#121
To who?
Comment by JD on 6/25 @ 5:27 am #
I vote for parody of itself.
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