June 17, 2008

Barack Obama: The Undistinguished Gentleman [Karl]

Obama, Barada Nikto!A commenter with a fondness for science-fiction writes:

why does it drive u into a frenzy that ppl believe in O and admire him?

The short answer is that it doesn’t, though it strikes me as somewhat irrational and disproportionate to his supposed public accomplishments.

From June 1985 to May 1988, Obama was a community organizer with the Developing Communities Project in Chicago, working primarily to organize a housing project called Altgeld Gardens.  According to the Boston Globe:

For all its impact on Obama, Altgeld Gardens today seems far from the kind of success story politicians like to tout.

Dozens of buildings are boarded up, with fences surrounding much of the property. The roads are a potholed mess. Blinking lights illuminate a series of towers where police have mounted cameras.

That’s change you can believe in.  Moreover, Hazel Johnson, who has lived at Altgeld Gardens since 1962 – and was an organizer long before Obama appeared on the scene – claims Obama has exaggerated his role in getting asbestos removed from the projects.  Otherwise, Obama did not get much done — and even had difficulty explaining what a “community organizer” did.

He then departed for Harvard Law School, where he was elected the first black president of the Harvard Law Review.  The title gained him notoriety, as reported by the New York Times:

He was approached by an agent, Jane Dystel, who got him a contract for a book. Obama missed his deadline, and Dystel promptly got him another contract and a $40,000 advance for the same book.

Obama finished the book while living in Bali.

Obama returned to Chicago, where he directed Illinois Project Vote! from April-October 1992.  This was a project for ACORN — an ostensibly non-partisan (but actually partisan) voter registration group often charged with voter registration fraud.  Nor was his involvement altruistic; the group would later provide the shock troops for his political campaigns.

In his first race for the state Senate in 1996, Obama employed Chicago rules to invalidate the voting petition signatures of three of his challengers, thus running unopposed on the Democratic ticket in a heavily Democrat district:

“That was Chicago politics,” said John Kass, a veteran Chicago Tribune columnist. “Knock out your opposition, challenge their petitions, destroy your enemy, right? It is how Barack Obama destroyed his enemies back in 1996 that conflicts with his message today. He may have gotten his start registering thousands of voters. But in that first race, he made sure voters had just one choice.”

Nothing illegal about it, but nothing particularly inspiring about it, either.

Though Obama served in the Illinois Senate for seven years, he built his entire legislative record in Illinois in a single year, when Illinois Senate Majority Leader Emil Jones appointed Obama sponsor of virtually every high-profile piece of legislation, angering many rank-and-file state legislators who had more seniority than Obama and had spent years championing the bills.  During this period, he lost the 2000 Democratic primary run for the US House of Representatives to incumbent Bobby Rush by a margin of two to one.

Obama then ran for an open US Senate seat in 2004, winning after Democrat Blair Hull and Republican Jack Ryan turned out to have scandal lurking in newly-unsealed divorce records.

In the Senate, Obama points mostly to his role in the 2007 overhaul of Congressional lobbying and ethics rules — a role he has repeatedly overstated.  Indeed, Obama was called out publicly by his colleagues for trying to take undeserved credit on the recent immigration reform and housing bills.

Obama also points to the Lugar-Obama nuclear non-proliferation bill — a bill so non-controversial that it was passed into law by unanimous consent.  Indeed, when not trying to take credit for the work of others, Obama’s Senate record is almost entirely minor legislation, usually passed by unanimous consent or voice vote.

Obama’s presidential campaign, recognizing how threadbare his record really is, and how utterly conventional his paltform is within left-leaning politics, insists that what matters is judgment, especially with regard to invading Iraq.  Jonah Goldberg recently summed up the issue of Obama’s judgment:

The problem is that it doesn’t reflect reality. Obama, who was a junior Illinois state senator from a very liberal district in Chicago and a star parishioner of the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr.’s Trinity United Church of Christ when the country was debating invading Iraq, would have voters believe that he carefully weighed the pros and cons and concluded it would be a bad idea.

***

But, even if you want to give Obama the benefit of the doubt, it’s hard to give him the benefit of the facts.

As a candidate for the U.S. Senate in 2004, Obama said he would “unequivocally” oppose President Bush on the war. But once in office, he voted for every war-funding bill — until he decided to run for president.

After the invasion, Obama did not favor an immediate pullout from Iraq. On July 27, 2004, the day after he delivered his brilliant keynote address to the Democratic National Convention, he told the Chicago Tribune that when it came to the war, “there’s not much of a difference between my position and George Bush’s position at this stage.” In other words, while he opposed the war, he was now committed to seeing it through. That was hardly the position of Moveon.org and other progressive outfits at the time.

During the long battle for the Democratic nomination, however, Obama’s position evolved (or devolved) into a consistent call for withdrawal in order to differentiate himself from Hillary Rodham Clinton.

I would add that his position in 2004 just coincidentally dovetailed with support for the Kerry-Edwards ticket; both had voted to authorize the invasion.  But when it came time to run for higher office, he constantly attacked Hillary Clinton for having made the same votes as Kerry and Edwards.  That is very conventional politics, not “change we can believe in.”  His flexibility here says as much about his judgment as his 20-year membership at what he knew was a radical church from the outset.

This leaves Obama’s organizational skill, which I have praised before — though not without noting that his campaign was seeded with venture capital from George Soros and the usual Wall Street wheelers and dealers.  He was able to defeat Hillary Clinton — another candidate with much more name recognition than record — by putting together a coalition of Hart and Jackson voters against the remainders of a Mondale coalition, with a strategy lifted from the 1972 McGovern campaign.  It was no small feat, though the incompetence of the Clinton campaign was also a factor here.

Finally, there is his oratorical skill.  Much of Obama’s lofty message of unity and hope really came from campaign consultant David Axelrod, who “long ago hatched the idea that Democrats’ campaigns should revolve more around personality than policy.”  Indeed, much of the rhetoric was already test-driven in 2006 by one of Axelrod’s other clients, Gov. Deval Patrick of Massachusetts.  Not that such themes are in any way unique to American presidential politics, as demonstrated by Bill “The Man from Hope” Clinton and George W. “Uniter, not a Divider” Bush. 

As I have repeatedly noted here at pw, the candidacies of Obama and John McCain are driven by voters pursuing a mirage of changeyness where bipartisanship reigns and the “moneyed special interests” vanish.  And we should Hope that it is a mirage:

The appeal is vague precisely because it is illusory…  The Framers of the US Constitution recognized – as James Madison explained in Federalist No. 10 – that factions are one of the costs of liberty.  There is nothing high-minded about selling the notion that faction can be magically eliminated — a notion that is equal parts snake oil and tyranny.

Again, there is not much to admire in either snake oil, tyranny or flowery speeches trying to sell either.  Moreover, remove Obama from a TelePrompTer and he is every bit the gaffer as any other average politician, though few have had the audacity to base their foreign policy on a debate gaffe.

In sum, Barack Obama’s record, judgment and message are at best entirely undistinguished in the field of presidential politics.  At worst, we have Axelrod’s campaign of personality attracting a cult of followers so creepy that even many Obama backers are put off by it, to a man who admits he is a “blank screen,” with a message that is either illusory or tyrannical.  It is in those people that I find little to admire.

Update: HotAir-lanche!

Update x2: Tom Maguire fills in Obama’s similarly undistinguished record in reforming Chicago’s public schools in the 1980s and 1990s.

Update x3: Insta-lanche!

Update x4: Corner-lanche!

Posted by Karl @ 7:28am
419 comments | Trackback

Comments (419)

  1. The more I learn about Obama, the less impressed I am, and the more I hear from his followers, the creepier it gets.

    Not that I’m impressed by McCain. The man is having a hard time constructing a narrative for his campaign, because despite his colleagues’ insistence that he “passionately believes” X or Y, it is very difficult to know ahead of time when McCain will support something or not. He seems to believe more in being passionate or contrary than in any bedrock principle.

    Obama is an empty suit, the Mirror of Erised, the Ultimate Stealth Candidate who has that All Important Diversity Cred but whose primary belief is that he’s too cool not to be elected. He has absorbed all of the Ivy League talking points without thinking them through to their logical conclusions.

    This cult of personality that has built up around him is freaky, to say the least. This is how bad leaders get elected, people. Pay attention and learn.

  2. Geez Karl, that is some real quality work there. It certainly wouldn’t take much for a group to put together some really strong adds of of that material. Say, a voicover describing Obama’s time as a community organizer with some nice shots of Altgeld Gardens and its

    [d]ozens of buildings … boarded up, with fences surrounding much of the property. The roads are a potholed mess. Blinking lights illuminate a series of towers where police have mounted cameras.

    Of course, something like that would just be attacked as the new Willie Horton ad.

  3. ppl believe in O

    I believe in him. I mean, I’m certain he exists.

    I just don’t think he should be president.

  4. The truth is out there…cue the shills.

  5. Oh come on. The Obamadoration is bad, but it is not NEARLY as creepy as the post 9/11 Chimpnotization of the GOP. That was not only bad, it was hilarious because he such a complete fucking idiot, but people liked him and voted based on the fact that they would like to have a friggin beer with him. WTF??!?!?

    The hopey-changey shit is pretty ridiculous, but it should not be surprising. We vote based on who makes us feel comfy or hopey, or thrilled. This is not new. At least with Obama we have a guy who has two brain cells to rub together and will probably be a good president (he might suck…but then so might McCain, in spite of his long tenure as a gub’ment employee).

  6. There is nothing high-minded about selling the notion that faction can be magically eliminated — a notion that is equal parts snake oil and tyranny.

    That’s really well expressed. Don’t nobody think it’s hyperbole either. Think of the Pew-driven media “consensus” on climate change and apply it to whatever policy arena you feel strongly about. The Unity that results from marginalizing your opponents is the Change that we’ve been waiting for I guess. Well not me really, them.

  7. …because he such a complete fucking idiot…

    Here we go again…

  8. Criticism of Obama’s paper thin qualifications? Bring out the Bush is stupid meme!

    1. Bush isn’t in this race.
    2. It’s been entirely debunked.

    Lisa, get out of the troll patch.

  9. Karl,

    You should be getting paid for this. Very nice work, coherent, documented and expressed with clarity.

  10. The Dems had a choice between two highly intelligent people. They chose the one with minimal qualifications but no baggage.

    I wonder why?

  11. That Bush is a complete fucking idiot ranks up there with O!™ being the hope and change for the future. Meaningless sound-bites that have been gobbled-up by those unable to analyze politics above a grade-school level.

  12. “because he such a complete fucking idiot”

    He must not be one of Lisa’s people. Persuasive, Lisa. Very persuasive. I especially like this part, “because he such..” Just the irony, though.

  13. >Meaningless sound-bites that have been gobbled-up by those unable to analyze politics above a grade-school level.

    Hope! Change we can BELIEVE in!

    Shut up, wingnuts!

    /the Obama campaign in 9 words

  14. “people liked him[Bush] and voted based on the fact that they would like to have a friggin beer with him. WTF??!?!? “

    That’s the first question I ask myself when casting a vote for president. What a credible polling question! What’s next, boxers or briefs?

    We vote based on who makes us feel comfy or hopey, or thrilled.

    Speak for yourself!

  15. Those two brain cells that Obama rubs together are bathed in Ivy League Kool-Aid, which endows the partaker with the illusion that if they can jump through the Ivy League hoops, they are fit to rule the world.

    In fact, most Ivy Leaguers aren’t fit to run a hot-dog stand. I went to Cornell, and I can testify that I could not run one if my life depended on it. Neither could 90% of the people there, and that includes half of the MBA candidates.

    I have not seen any evidence that Obama has thought through the positions he spouts. He’ll propose something, then there’s an outcry, then he says, “ok then, we’ll do this instead.” He’s just flailing around for something that people want to hear. He has no idea what the impact or consequences are of what he’s proposing.

    I’m not impressed by Ivy League credentials or any supposed intelligence. The ability to run a large organization is a specialized skill. Either you’ve got it or you don’t. There’s no evidence that Obama does.

  16. Most people actually do cast their votes based on the general impression left to them of the candidates, once they’ve considered all the particulars that matter to them: “In which of these candidates do I have more confidence? From which do I get a more positive sense of the future?”

    I submit that this is perfectly rational, since it’s as much of a real look at the future as we ever get. The fact we’re assessing credibility based on their campaigning behavior sucks huge, rotting ostrich eggs, but there we are.

    I think O! just doesn’t have what it takes to win this election. His O!borg Collective may be intensely devoted, but it won’t matter how deep his support is if it’s narrowly based. See also “Libertarian Party.”

  17. I trust McCain not to change for change’s sake. He can be very obstinate, and at least knowing that the word impasse would at least retain some currency gets my vote for sure.

  18. I was thinking the same thing, Roboc. But, people do vote for different reasons, however absurd we may feel them to be. I guess, I don’t need somebody else to “make” me feel hopeful or comfortable. That’s kind of an intrinsic thing, at least to me. Plus, it’s a pretty sure bet that anyone, in this day and age, that has risen to that pinnacle of power is not the most honest person in the world. Do I agree with their policies, is the only question I ask. Of course, in recent elections, the question is more like, who’s (or is it whose?), and how many, policies do I agree with at all.

  19. Lisa,

    re the post-9/11 Bush attitude. It’s usually called “rallying ’round the flag” in the face of the worst attack on US soil. O! is not (yet) head of state and is not the flag, let alone the country. Indeed, he can barely condescend to wear a flag pin.

    all,

    Thanks for the kind words.

  20. Whose. Who’s = Who Is

  21. Thanks, dicentra. That’s one of my grammar bugaboos. As you can see, I’m in here for the learnin’, not the teachin’.

  22. Dumbest poll ever here.

    Barack Obama and John McCain are now about tied in Gallup Poll Daily tracking of voter preferences for the general election, nevertheless, in a June 9-12 Gallup Poll, Obama leads McCain 52% to 41% in public perceptions of who will win in November.

    Now, they just need to keep massaging polls like this, and hopefully they can suppress turnout for McCain. Hope and Change, people. Hope. And. Change.

  23. The “adulation of Bush” post 9/11?

    So I must have imagined Harriet Miers, the expansion of Perscription Medicare programs, the inability to reform Social Security even with control of both Houses of Congress, etc.?

    Lisa, conservatives were/are pissed with Bush on numerous issues and programs. The lockstep brownshirts that the Left envisions is a lurid self-indulgent fantasy.

  24. Was Barry one of the crucial, competent, helpful community organizers in Chicago when people were roasting to juicy perfection in the apartments?

    Face it, Democrats just aren’t leaders, if they were, they’d be Republicans.

  25. Most people actually do cast their votes based on the general impression left to them of the candidates, once they’ve considered all the particulars that matter to them: “In which of these candidates do I have more confidence? From which do I get a more positive sense of the future?”

    I emphasized your qualifier, because this is the real reason to choose a president.

  26. To be scrupulously fair, AFAIK, O! had no significant connnecton to the ’95 heat wave. He would have been just gearing up to run for office, and (again afaik) was not doing much community organizing.

  27. but no baggage.

    That is a bit of a stretch, no?

    Racists.

  28. You know why Obama keeps using the words “Hope” and “Change”?

    Because after he is elected president, you will be “hoping” just to have some “change” left in your pocket after he gets done passing his “Your too stupid to manage your life, so let me try legislation”.

    I am not voting for McCain either, I am writing in “None of the Above”.

  29. Obama’s popularity is indicative that most voters have the attention span of a gnat. The selection of candidates has devolved into a contest barely distinguishable from voting for the next American Idol.

    “Getting the troops home,” “fixing the economy” and “solving the health care crisis” may be overarching goals, but they are not policies. Unfortunately this is about as deep as Obama’s thinking has gone on any of these issues. Remove the Teleprompter and try to get into details and Obama is stuttering and contradictory. This is not leadership and I fear the American people are about to learn a very severe lesson.

    As a Chicagoan, I can acknowledge that Obama’s political success so far has been a bizarre combination of quirky luck, the machinations of the Chicago Democratic Machine, fortunate timing, and the ability to read a decent speech. Beyond that, Obama is Chauncey Gardiner.

  30. I’ve never engaged in adulation of any political figure. They just don’t merit it.

    As Karl said, people were rallying ’round the flag. Bush was a newbie when 9/11 hit, so there wasn’t much to hate him for. Well, except for stealing the election from the Goracle. But most of us at PW are not all that enthused about 43.

    voted based on the fact that they would like to have a friggin beer with him. WTF??!?!?

    This is a common formulation in any presidential election, not just in the Bush elections. It’s a variation on the idea that people vote for whomever they feel most comfortable with. In the case of the Bush elections, it also highlighted the fact that Bush seemed like a real person as opposed to Gore and Kerry, who seemed like stuffed shirts. And were.

    I remember reading a lefty complain about the Bush Cult of Personality. Which is kind of hard to pull off, given that Bush doesn’t project much personality one way or the other.

  31. I emphasized your qualifier, because this is the real reason to choose a president.

    Unquestionably. I was addressing the “how” rather than the “why,” which is why the qualifier needed to be there.

    To further clarify and emphasize: O! fails on the “why,” and isn’t faring too well on the “how” either.

  32. Our savior will wash away the Neocons, like Oxyclean!

  33. Oh, I’m just … spitting … the stupid just keeps going.

    Just 52% of American voters believe that an oil company should be allowed to keep profits from any alternative energy source it discovers. Twenty-nine percent (29%) say the company should not be allowed to keep such profits while 19% are not sure

  34. “At least with Obama we have a guy who has two brain cells to rub together and will probably be a good president.”
    No, he doesn’t have two brain cells, as seen without use of his teleprompter and his many stuttering times where he can’t talk and seems to be on drugs. His past drug use us probably the cause of his dead brain cells. Not only is he lousy, he is dangerous. Remember, as noted in his book Audacity of Hope, if push comes to shove, he will “stand with the Muslims”. I’ll vote for McCain not because I like him, but to vote AGAINST this radical, Marxist fool who would only bring the U. S. down (that IS Soros’s plan, you know)

  35. Baracky has his skin color to run on, though the man has taken great pains to suppress the black (father) side of his heritage. Why is that? His paucity of serious credentials that rational people would deem necessary for the highest executive position in the land don’t seem to bother his glassy-eyed followers.

    The man is John Edwards with a tint. If Obie weren’t black, he would have joined Mr. Edwards in congratulating Hillary on her impending nomination at the convention.

  36. Our savior will wash away the Neocons, like Oxyclean!

    Cincinnatus sounds like thor, without the

    ~O~

  37. I’m certain he exists.

    That’s too strongly worded.

    When the next Kennedy in line — who would be our next President now — died of stupid hubris, a replacement kingly desire-object for the so-desirous had to be invented. Axelrod (et al) did the job — an imperfect one, because he only got the easily fooled half-the-people to swoon for his creation, but that’s all you really need.

    The man whose corporeal image comes to mind when you hear Obama’s name had nothing to do with it, still doesn’t, and likely never will. He just shows up. The “Obama” we’ve been sold only exists in the minor way a product mascot does, and the real one, the guy born with that (or whatever) name, is hidden…or maybe repressed.

    I lean toward the former (because evil is more common than insanity), but if the latter’s so, if he’s just crazy and used, I’d feel bad for the sick-headed kid lost behind all those Big Brother heads on the walls, if he weren’t also a softheaded bitch.

  38. such profits

    cause there’s the different kinds

  39. Happy, we’re talking WINDFALL profits. Of course, you missed my “windfall profit” google search I did last week. We’re going to have to socialize nationalize a whole lotta companies that are making over 9% net.

  40. CArin-BONC, what do you expect when a congressional hearing is run like a Springer Show episode. I was astounded when Maxine Waters threatened the oil executives with nationalizing their companies. Hugo Chavez must have wanted to have a “cervasas” with her!

  41. Comment by B Moe on 6/17 @ 8:06 am #

    …because he such a complete fucking idiot…

    Here we go again…

    Hey, B. Moe.

    It still stuns me just how uninformed most people are about what the left and the press have done to Bush. The lies have all been debunked over and over again, but that doesn’t stop the left/press axis from repeating them. I guess it’s true that if you tell a lie enough times, it becomes the truth.

  42. Those two brain cells that Obama rubs together are bathed in Ivy League Kool-Aid, which endows the partaker with the illusion that if they can jump through the Ivy League hoops, they are fit to rule the world.

    In fact, most Ivy Leaguers aren’t fit to run a hot-dog stand. I went to Cornell, and I can testify that I could not run one if my life depended on it. Neither could 90% of the people there, and that includes half of the MBA candidates.

    True. I attended U of Penn and most of the students I hung out with at Wharton based their business knowledge on theoretical concepts. Wharton didn’t have an entrepreneurial Department until 1977. Which leads me to a little story:

    My oldest daughter graduated from Temple a few years ago with degrees in Communications and Journalism, Magna cum Laude. She rejcted the news business, didn’t want to be in P.R. or Advertising (heh, she told me everyone she met in those professions was either creepy, crazy or an asshole.) She ended up going to work for one of the largest financial services/investing companies in the world.

    Recently she was called in to clean up a statistical report on her company’s compliance with SEC trading rules. They had originally given to job one of their fair haired Hah-vahd Business School grads who had been plugging away for three months. The report was a complete, incoherent mess. My daughter took it over, applied what she described as “mostly common sense” and had the report completed in four days.

    Now my pride and joy is as sharp as a Ginzu knife (our political debates are loud, long and can last for 2-3 hours) but the point was the lack of directed critical thinking of fair haired boy. He though he was dealing with a lofty thesis designed for publication. This was fine in theory but lacked the necessary focus and “demeaning” grunt work necessary to, you know, actually complete the project.

    I see some of this in Obama. Lovely sounding in theory but lacking in real practicality.

    No matter! One of our Obamatons will still be oiling up and humping her Obama poster while the other one works his misty magic on The Hope Shaft™. Facts are immaterial when !O!gasms are plentiful and cheap.

  43. There is nothing high-minded about selling the notion that faction can be magically eliminated — a notion that is equal parts snake oil and tyranny.

    excellent, Karl.
    /golf clap

    I think this is what is depressing Jeff so much…i post at dKos too, and they are exactly as polarized an partisan.

    I think 911 united the country.
    But Bush and Rove basically engineered the 2004 election by farming theocons in fly-over country.
    Both factions copy the other’s successful strategies.
    For example, the rise of the interwebs has simply allowed Obama to farm support and fundage among the netliterate.

    Everyone believes in something, Karl. Jeff said it best, we are all believers.
    We are wired for it.
    The obamataku believe he can fix the country’s problems.
    mccain doesnt even inspire belief in his own followers.

  44. Am I mis-remembering, or wasn’t there a time, a moment when Barack Obama was asked by some enthusiastic reporter whether Obama wouldn’t consider running for President and that among the other reasons by which Obama demurred on that occasion was that his wife wasn’t too thrilled by the idea. Shortly thereafter, weren’t there stories that Obama was working hard to persuade his wife that running would be to the good, would not harm either her or her young family. What, I wonder, was the source of her reticence at that time? What was the argument Barack made that persuaded her?

  45. “died of stupid hubris”

    Kennedy’s had broken more than a few laws before and walked away smiling. The “stupid” part comes from the heir apparent equating manslaughter and/or rape with gravity. It’s interesting to consider that cancer may well be the cause of the Chicago Machine taking the reins from the Kennedy Machine. Quite fitting, actually. Of course, there are real differences between the two, just as there are with syphilis and gonorrhea.

  46. and…factionalism makes it neccessary to demonize the other faction’s guy. So Bush HAS to be a dumb cowboy hick to the Left, and O! HAS to be a mirrored suit and stealth-host-for-marxism to the Right.

  47. The obamataku believe he can fix the country’s problems.

    Despite a complete lack of evidence.

    mccain doesnt even inspire belief in his own followers.

    No, they’re more rational than the Obamatons. Indeed, they aren’t “followers” — supporters at best. I am not surprised you missed the entire point.

  48. How dare you recognize that faction has purpose. You are a heretic.

  49. Pingback: Talking vs. Walking « The Political Inquirer

  50. Obama himself bespoke his enthusiasm for Gramsci, not I.

  51. Everybody believes in something. Not everyone believes in politicians. And certainly not politicians with no record to speak of.

  52. #8: Oh that is right! Any criticism of Bush is just BDS or trolling. (slaps thigh) so silly of me to forget.

    #12: I am slain by your rapier wit. Only you could ferret out such subtle irony.

    #14: Yes. Triteness has become the new substance (not that I have anything against being trite…but journalists should not be asking trite questions and passing them off as important).

    My point is that the voters have already demonstrated that they vote for who they think is “cooler” all the time. I find it amusing that someone would defend voting for Bush because Kerry and Gore were too stuffy. But to then decry voting for Obama because he cooler than Clinton (or McCain) as a fucking outrage? Too funny.

  53. Actually jen, McCain has to be a third Bush term, and Obama has to be a second Carter term. Didn’t you get the fearmongering memo?

  54. and O! HAS to be a mirrored suit and stealth-host-for-marxism to the Right.

    Well, there is that pesky fact that O!™ has ADMITTED that he’s a progressive …

  55. and demonizing mccain via age is problematic…it is not particularily PC, but still there is an undeniable underscore that between-group findings on the average show that a 72 yearold will not be able to stand up to the demands of the office as well as a 46 yearold.
    Or have the same physiological capacities, memory, cognition, etc.
    the argument for mccain must be that he brings sufficient value-added to offset the age factor.

  56. I think everyone ought to have this playing in the background, while considering this thread.

  57. Nishi, have you shoved that barbed-wire covered axe handle up your ass yet?

  58. Well, there is that pesky fact that O!™ has ADMITTED that he’s a progressive …
    oh yes carin, i forgot….progressive == facist ala Goldberg.
    ;)

  59. #8: Oh that is right! Any criticism of Bush is just BDS or trolling. (slaps thigh) so silly of me to forget.

    Valid criticism is fine. Bush if a fucking idiot is lacking …

    My point is that the voters have already demonstrated that they vote for who they think is “cooler” all the time. I find it amusing that someone would defend voting for Bush because Kerry and Gore were too stuffy. But to then decry voting for Obama because he cooler than Clinton (or McCain) as a fucking outrage? Too funny.

    That Kerry was stuffy was amusing, and that photo of him trying to catch a football – well, it never failed to make me laugh. It wasn’t a the reason I didn’t vote for him. Voting for a candidate based on his “cool” factor is stupid and possibly dangerous.

  60. #8: Oh that is right! Any criticism of Bush is just BDS or trolling. (slaps thigh) so silly of me to forget.

    Uh, no. Attacks on his intelligence are a sign of someone who has bought completely into the dominant story line. A story line which happens to be complete and utter crap.

  61. Lisa,

    My point is that last time I checked, Bush isn’t running this year. I mention this because it is a common misconception among Democrats. I think I’ve demonstrated that I don’t think muck more of Maverick, though he at least has a record. Not one I’m thrilled with, but he has one.

    BTW, people didn’t vote against Gore and Kerry because they were too stuffy. They voted against them because they were seen as out of touch with their lives and values.

    nishi,

    back to talking point #3 already? Tsk.

  62. My point is that the voters have already demonstrated that they vote for who they think is “cooler” all the time.

    good point, relative cool.
    Kerry’s windsurfer pic and Dukakis in the tank were visual cortex gaffes that stuck.

  63. ill be decidin who the fasists are, twodigit
    ima a transhuman an ur jus a stoopid hunk of meet

    rowr!

  64. It’s nice to go away and return to find Karl is the same low-IQ, racist troll he’s always been.

    KK, don’t you go changin’, you dumb whitey.

    Again, there is not much to admire in either snake oil, tyranny or flowery speeches trying to sell either. Moreover, remove Obama from a TelePrompTer and he is every bit the gaffer as any other average politician, though few have had the audacity to base their foreign policy on a debate gaffe.

    In sum, Barack Obama’s record, judgment and message are at best entirely undistinguished in the field of presidential politics. At worst, we have Axelrod’s campaign of personality attracting a cult of followers so creepy that even many Obama backers are put off by it, to a man who admits he is a “blank screen,” with a message that is either illusory or tyrannical. It is in those people that I find little to admire.

    First of all, dumb white boy, Barack Obama doesn’t normally use a TelePprompTer (tElePrOMpTeR!!!Elevanty!11@@!!). Dumb assertions that Barack Obama is just a normal politician without a tele-prompter is like saying Tiger Woods is just another dumb nigger without his golf clubs, meaning the overt racism of diminishing his talents is exactly replicated. Further still, fag toast, though Elvis had a cult-like following, no matter how much of a girly-bitch denialist you are the fact is Elvis could sing quite well.

    In your words I read nothing but various racist meta-narratives poorly stuttered and cloaked, and that’s because you’re a sniveling, jealous, white weasel.

    The man is too big. The man is too strong. And you’re too big a loser to matter.

    O!

  65. Happy, we’re talking WINDFALL profits. Of course, you missed my “windfall profit” google search I did last week. We’re going to have to socialize nationalize a whole lotta companies that are making over 9% net.

    Ok, every body raise their hands if they think that a Windfall Profit Tax Bill on oil companies will result in lower energy prices for consumers.

    [.....] *crickets*

    Oh, I forgot! dataless dave, he of the “corporations exist to serve the public trust,” has been banned from our midst. Any body else who did raised their hands: Please go and instantly bath yourself in clue musk. (h/t RTO)

    Our. Energy. Policy. Is. A. Joke.

  66. What the fuck do you think a progressive is?

  67. is like saying Tiger Woods is just another dumb nigger without his golf clubs

    Which, you know, we’re saying all the time, here.

  68. Voting for a candidate based on his “cool” factor is stupid and possibly dangerous.

    still it happens….and i dont see what can be done about it.
    happens a lot….for example the debates..many people will hsve subliminally noted Kerry’s unfortunate resemblance to the extreme phenotype of Andre the Giant. outlier appearance triggers that “not-in-our-tribe” survival reflex.
    very hard to study…ppl almost never admit to voting on appearance.

    probably that is why a lot of the obamataku can’t actually explain why they voting for him.

  69. BTW, people didn’t vote against Gore and Kerry because they were too stuffy. They voted against them because they were seen as out of touch with their lives and values.

    Karl, they don’t drink beer!

  70. Dumb assertions that Barack Obama is just a normal politician without a tele-prompter is like saying Tiger Woods is just another dumb nigger guy without his golf clubs, meaning the overt racism of diminishing his talents is exactly replicated.

    Fixed that for you, racist.

  71. Nah, some of you probably just mutter it under your breath when you see him hoisting up and then kissing the U.S. Open trophy, Slarti.

    Summons up the decency to give any man his due. That’s the White thing to do.

  72. happens a lot….for example the debates..many people will hsve subliminally noted Kerry’s unfortunate resemblance to the extreme phenotype of Andre the Giant.

    Got any more of whatever it is you’re smoking?

  73. #

    Comment by shisininnyohno on 6/17 @ 9:58 am #

    Fixed that for you, racist.

    Sorry, but I can’t fix your head, racist.

  74. Karl, couldn’t agree more with Rick Ballard @ #9. Speaking for myself I do a good deal of marvelling at the quality of your efforts.

  75. Got any more of whatever it is you’re smoking?

    Really, Pablo. Kerry looked like LURCH, not Andre the Giant.

  76. Thor, how about the undeserved elevating of Baracks talents because of his race? That would be racism in my book.

  77. People like thor can’t actually compete in the marketplace of ideas, so when you read his constant claims of having discovered racism you should pity him for his stupidity, because it is really all he has.

  78. Marvel is a comic book distributor, go figure that, Ms. Self-referential.

  79. Ah, there we are. The new PW – same great ideas, more derailment by idiots.

  80. Andre the Giant? Um, no. Herman Munster.

  81. Has anybody read up on the Roman Empire? If you know anything about this time in history the one thing that you never did was cross the Senators. You see they knew that they could slay Caesar anytime they wanted to when it suited them. The problem being that they then became the tyranny that they so despised and eventually weakened the empire so much there was no way to defend it once a true menace threatened Rome. If you think BHO is going to cross the afor mentioned Senators currently holding the majority in both houses you have to be nuts. He will fall in line just like the rest of them.

    Fortunately we have a built in slaying of Caesar every 8 years in the constitution and I think for the countries sake we need to include the Senators and their Representative colleagues as well!!!

    “We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”(Albert Einstein (1879 – 1955))

  82. In your words I read nothing but various racist meta-narratives poorly stuttered and cloaked, and that’s because you’re a sniveling, jealous, white weasel.

    Thor, quit jamming The Hope Shaft™ through your ears. You are bruising your brain and turning yourself into an Identity Politics Metaphor.©

    Besides, Michael Vick needs you coherent and sympathetic. He can’t deal with the hatin’ and be that tender prescence you crave. So much.

  83. happens a lot….for example the debates..many people will hsve subliminally noted Kerry’s unfortunate resemblance to the extreme phenotype of Andre the Giant. outlier appearance triggers that “not-in-our-tribe” survival reflex.

    What, no link to a statistical Ivy League study? Come on jen, I need another good laugh!

  84. Kerry lost because he was an insufferable self-flattering poser fake – and there was too much at stake to have that kind of preening vanity at the head of state. Not to mention that those promises or actions he did make were of disputed advantage to the nation, even if sincerely meant.

  85. some of you probably just mutter it under your breath

    Yeah, I know. I can go my whole life without using (or wanting to use) a single racist epithet, without keeping anyone down (as if I had the power to do so), treat all colors of people with the same respect, and I’m still a racist.

    You just exemplified one of the uglier Leftist fantasies about the right, thor. Thanks for clearing that up.

  86. Nah, some of you probably just mutter it under your breath when you see him hoisting up and then kissing the U.S. Open trophy, Slarti.

    How can I argue with shit you’ve just completely made up, thor? It’s like trying to argue with a less coherent version of Ulysses.

  87. Pingback: Obama’s “accomplishments” and “achievements” | Cold Fury

  88. Then all the racists that elevated George W. Bush’s talents must have really sickened you. More recently, how about that Hillary Clinton who ran, as Christopher Hitchens described, one of the “nastiest and most bigoted candidacies in modern history.” Who elevated Hillary to anything other than a conniving lying bitch? That must have really got your goat, eh Sarah.

    Try and name some other parallels for me, go ahead and elevate some names if you dare.

  89. it is more apparent when andre was younger and thinner
    compare the length of the chin.

  90. Speaking for myself, that’s a silly insult, considering your handle.

  91. I decided last night that a Barack Obama presidency would make Jimmy Carter look like Abrahan Fucking Lincoln.

  92. Criticism from thor — who admittedly lies about me, kisses O!’s sphincter and makes blatantly racist comments here — shakes me to the core. He is a credit to Obamatons everywhere.

    /sarc

  93. sure, andre is just the most extreme.
    it is a pitutary disorder i think, and likly the actors playing herman munster and lurch both peg on the distribution.

    signals not-in-our-tribe
    and, roboc, ppl wont admit to voting on appearance. how can u poll it?

  94. There may have been some voters who actually voted for Bush in 2000 based upon his track record as governor of Texas, where he had achieved some degree of comity with the conservative Democrats in the legislature.

    There is nothing similiar by which Obama might be judged for he has accomplished so very, very little that we are left to examine the absolute nothingless of his lack of achievements even as a “community organizer”.

    Reading the entrails of a chimera is a difficult task.

  95. Age makes a difference? As between Carter’s malaise and Reagan kicking Soviet butt.
    Obama is different though. When the Harvard Law Review was handed over to him, he became the only editor to not publish. I don’t consider that an achievement.

  96. Okay, anyone who took even a basic set of macro and microeconomics courses knows that taxing “windfalls” doesn’t do fuckall for anything. WTF is the point? If you want energy companies to pay more taxes just befuckingcause then just say it. I am progressive enough to not be afraid of saying “gimme some money for new solar panels for everyone, bitches” (and expect them to laugh and then slap me). But, saying that because someone is doing extraordinarily well we should tax them is just errant crankery. There are a host of deeper issues going on here and taxing the fucknuts won’t make them go away:

    1. We now have to compete with emerging economies for oil. Demand for it is smoking…energy companies are making money hand over fist. Taxing would change that how?
    2. We have built our country on the idea that we would be gassing up our clunkers and driving our asses off forever. We have crappy, ghetto-assed public transportation that can hardly stand the strain of a few people taking the train a couple of times a week let alone a mass of people trying to avoid high gas prices. Taxing oil companies will not fix this. Maybe it could be invested in mass transit. But why should they pay for our stupidity and short sightedness? We are the dummies who planned our crappy cities. We should pull it out of our pockets to make the improvements.
    3. If you are a progressive and want people to start doing things differently, how would taxing oil companies do this? Market forces go way further in getting people out of their Chevy Suburbans than George Clooney tooling around in a Prius ever did.

  97. outlier appearance triggers that “not-in-our-tribe” survival reflex.

    I apologize jen, I wanted to see the statistical model used regarding the “survival reflex” you were referring to. I saw “The Princess Bride”, so I know what Andre the Giant looks like.

  98. Karl, thank you for the post. If you or anyone else has ever produced a clear timeline on Obama’s career (1983 to date), I’d love to see it. If it’s in imperfect form, maybe the sharp daughter of BJTex (#43) can pull it together in good form. I think Obama is a complete fraud.

    My funny story is that I have a 21-year old nephew who attends a small VERY liberal university in Virginia. He tells me that whenever he gets into a discussion with a young Obamicon, he asks why he or she is supporting Obama. He says that he invariably get a deer-in-the-headlights look followed by some “uhs” and “ahs” and then a “because” and, if anything more, “Well, because I don’t want a Bush third term.”

    Now, THAT’S an informed citizenry.

  99. “#Comment by James on 6/17 @ 8:49 am #

    I am not voting for McCain either, I am writing in “None of the Above”.”

    Send me your e-mail addy, and I’ll shoot you a thank you note if Obama is elected.

  100. #

    Comment by dicentra on 6/17 @ 10:12 am #

    You just exemplified one of the uglier Leftist fantasies about the right, thor. Thanks for clearing that up.

    I’m not a Leftist nor am I a symbol of any political ideology nor do my words speak for anyone but me nor are my words directed at anyone other a select few here – Karl and his clapping baby seals, mostly.

    Nice try at deflection.

  101. Happyfeet had some comforting ideas about this election resulting not in sea change but, something more like a state of inchoate ferment…. If the nation only ends up resembling the inchoate ferment developing in the crawlspace under the leaking guest bathroom shower pan I just found, I will be relieved and grateful.

  102. oh, kk, i’ll look for one on line…Tomasello and Richardson and Sperber probably all have bibliography cites i can pull up on line, unless they’re in Jstor.

  103. But, saying that because someone is doing extraordinarily well we should tax them is just errant crankery. There are a host of deeper issues going on here and taxing the fucknuts won’t make them go awa

    Well, Lisa, you have a whole lotta people you need to explain this to … and they’re mostly standing on your side of the isle.

    But, I do want to say that calling the oil companies “fucknuts” is rather … telling. I mean, they do a rather good job getting oil to us on rather thin margins. Instead of marveling at their ability to move oil from the ME and refine and deliver it to the corner gas stations. Honestly, if the government were in charge, we’d be seeing gas at $10 a gallon.

  104. Comment by Lisa on 6/17 @ 8:01 am #
    “Oh come on. The Obamadoration is bad, but it is not NEARLY as creepy as the post 9/11 Chimpnotization of the GOP.”

    Actually, now… now I get it. For years, on forums I was on every far lefty that showed up accused anyone that was a republican of being a Bush lover and bunch of other similar stuff we didn’t understand. We were like, hu?

    Now watching the creepy cult of progressives around Obama I get it. Transference and projection.

  105. BTW,

    As Lisa is following the thread, I want to note that she is a model of someone who can support Obama without worship. It’s the demi-trolls here who fit that latter category.

  106. well, SAM, that is probably because they going to vote on O!’s appearance, or his coolth factor, or his speaking ability, and, being college students, they don’t want to admit that.

  107. And that being said, I never saw Bush get applause for blowing his nose onstage.

  108. Nishi failed to mentioned that the college student may be a two-digit …

  109. and, roboc, ppl wont admit to voting on appearance. how can u poll it?

    But they’ll admit to voting for a presidential candidate based on whether they’d like to have a beer him/her! You used the word “outlier”. What exactly did you mean?

  110. “…if the government were in charge, we’d be seeing gas …”

    If the government were in charge, you would likely not be seeing any gas at all, save what it would deign to ration you.

  111. i meant phenotypical outlier.
    appearance.
    yup, they will admit the beerdrinking.
    never that appearance informs their choice…that is just too shallow.

  112. “Everyone believes in something, Karl. Jeff said it best, we are all believers.”

    No. You’re someone who refuses to think rationally on Obama and tries to project it onto other people in order to legitimize your own need.

  113. still it happens….and i dont see what can be done about it.
    happens a lot….for example the debates..many people will hsve subliminally noted Kerry’s unfortunate resemblance to the extreme phenotype of Andre the Giant.

    The prototypical example is the 1960 debate between Kennedy and Nixon, in which Kennedy came off looking young, handsome and charismatic, and Nixon looked old and sickly.

    probably that is why a lot of the obamataku can’t actually explain why they voting for him.

    True, but you should be able to articulate some rational, substantive reasons for your support of him.

  114. So if I don’t vote for Obama because he’s visually appealing, or want to have a beer with him, then I guess I’m just a racist! Thanks, now I don’t have to watch the debates!

  115. #104: I don’t think they are evil people. They are serving our needs. Because we are dumb enough to paint ourselves into the proverbial corner in the way we built our communities, they should not pay for that. Nor should we bail them out if someone discovers how to run everything using nuclear cold fusion and they suddenly become uneccessary.

    I worked for the lobby firm that represented Western States Petroleum Association. After years of typing legislative language for them and mixing highballs for the boys (and a couple of girls), I can honestly say that I did not mean that with an ounce of acrimony. They suck sometimes, but in general, big oil is just doing business. They are mostly decent and mostly working their asses off. This is heresy to my folks on the left, but unlike the airline industry and the agriculture industry, when big oil takes a hit like they did when prices dropped in the 80s, they hike up their pants and keep on going. I may be wrong here but I dont ever remember them asking for a bailout for the vagaries of the market.

  116. Then again, some people can distinguish between holding to ideological or political principles and self-gratifying hero-worship, so perhaps that’s the problem.

  117. SHORT ECON LESSON FOR ALL YOU PROGGS IN THE CROWD

    The reason you don’t want to tax so-called ‘windfall’ profits is that it will come straight out of the consumer’s pocket: the price per gallon will go up. What the government collects may, perhaps, be applied to finding ‘new sources of energy’ (cough, cough), but _you_ will be footing the bill–not the oil companies.

    Example 2:

    When Mayor Richie Daley says he’s going to raise property taxes in Chicago to subsidize his bloated and grotesque regime, this is what it means in English: ‘I’m going to raise everyone’s rent.’ Now, if Richie actually said those words when he was trying to drum up popular support for this blighted idea, citizens would be lined up around the block twelve times over waiting to tar and feather him. A claim of raising ‘property taxes’ is–to most addle-minded voters– Somebody Else’s Problem. It never occurs to them that the landlord is going to have to raise their rents in order to come up with the scratch because he is, after all, a regular working stiff just like themselves!

  118. #
    Comment by Karl on 6/17 @ 10:32 am #

    BTW,

    As Lisa is following the thread, I want to note that she is a model of someone who can support Obama without worship. It’s the demi-trolls here who fit that latter category.

    I just wanted to note that Karl is the model of someone who can’t support Obama solely because he’s a whitey.

  119. Incidentally, a great article explaining the value of the free marketplace of ideas and the power of human creativity is ‘I, a Pencil” by Leonard E. Reed.

    Read that, and you’ll understand precisely how ignorant of economics the Left is.

  120. #115: No, not a racist. But totally lame for not wanting to hang with B-Smoove.

  121. signals not-in-our-tribe

    Speak for yourself, Shorty. I claim Scottish ancestry, but I also have a lot of Irish, as did Fred Gwynne and Ted Cassidy.

  122. Read that, and you’ll understand precisely how ignorant of economics the Left is.

    Armchair Economist by Steven E. Lansburg

  123. So if I don’t vote for Obama because he’s visually appealing, or want to have a beer with him, then I guess I’m just a racist! Thanks, now I don’t have to watch the debates!

    Oh, I’d have a beer with him.

  124. can’t support Obama solely because he’s a whitey.

    I thought O! was only half-whitey.

  125. I would have said that thor and nishi should get a room, but thor is on record about women with “squinty eyes.”

  126. Karl’s post was some good reading. Going beyond all the snarky stuff, and aside from the Hope and Change and thrills up your legs, can any of the resident Obama supporters here–and I’m being serious–explain why we should vote for a man who is, arguably, the least experienced man ever to win a major party’s nomination for the highest office in the country?

  127. I would have said that thor and nishi should get a room, but thor is on record about women with “squinty eyes.”

    Wait. Is nishi really Japanese, or just a loser with an anime fetish? I figured the latter, based on the evidence.

  128. Lame is your meandering drivel regarding “windfall profits” and oil companies. Where did you end up that anyway? I re-read your posts, but I didn’t actually see any conclusion to your point(s)(unless it was to vote for B-Smoove, or you’re lame).

  129. Karl is the model of someone who can’t support Obama solely because he’s a whitey.

    I don’t think Karl dislikes Obama just because Obama is white, thor.

  130. As Lisa is following the thread, I want to note that she is a model of someone who can support Obama without worship.

    But she also seems to be supporting him against her better judgement.

    Lisa, I lurk here all the time and I mightily enjoy what you bring to the discussion here, but many times I read you saying things like “This is heresy to my folks on the left…”

    And perhaps I’ve just missed it, but I’ve yet to read your concrete reasons for supporting Obama. All I see is you insisting that not all liberals are quivering, vapid Obama leg-humpers. I will certainly consider conceding this point if you can tell me why you, a rational, critically thinking individual, are supporting him against what appears to be your interests.

  131. I’m with Zelda. I’d like to hear substantive reasons why I should vote for O!™

    Ba haa haa .. I mean, as if.

    But, I am sincere about my wish to have a discussion on issues.

  132. We have built our country on the idea that we would be gassing up our clunkers and driving our asses off forever.

    Indeed, our whole economy is premised on the availability of cheap energy. So with the prices going up, that’s not just going to stick it to the Hummer-driving, planet-hating wingers, it’s squeezing everyone. I don’t think that anyone would argue that truckers, for example, are filthy rich (just filthy, what with having to deal with trucks and all), but they’re getting hit really hard. Many of them are losing money. And if the trucks stop running, everything — and I mean everything — gets scarce and expensive in a hurry.

    Worst hit? The poor, as usual. The limousine liberals will feel all warm and holy for making us burn less petrol, but like any aristocracy, they never have to live with the consequences of their moronic decisions.

    We are the dummies who planned our crappy cities. We should pull it out of our pockets to make the improvements.

    I’m wondering what a better city would look like. One in which we don’t have suburbs and 40-minute commutes? Like Hong Kong, for example. Yeah, that’s my idea of good living, right there.

    Cities make people crazy. I’d die if I couldn’t till the soil and plant my fleurs and lie in my hammock under the tree.

  133. Thanks Karl :-)

    I might get the O-Bug yet. The politicians who manage to become POTUS material, whether we like them or not, have a certain bit of magnetism that the rest of us just don’t have. I went to GWB’s inaugural parade (just to experience an inauguration – I had just moved to DC). Our little group was standing a bit away from the madness over near the rallies and Al Sharpton but we planned to boo or something when the motorcade went by. But I think the president thought we were supporters because we weren’t screaming through bullhorns or dressed in stupid outfits so he waved and winked at us and we all tittered and waved back and said “yay!” like dorks.

    I also have a Barack Obama motorcade experience from his recent visit to Baltimore but it involves people at California Tortilla standing on tables excitedly waving their burritos at him and him looking puzzled/amused.

  134. I issue a blanket denouncement, condemnation, farting, shaken finger (no, not that one!), stern look, raspberry and tsk, tsk to all of the commentators here for being racist skin baiting klan bitches. Except for Lisa, who is most excellent and practically perfect in every way. Thor and nishi also “get off” easy but even the hard core libertarians are getting pissed at all of the self gratifying !O!gasms.

    Even though he hasn’t commented, I condemn JD for his obvious bigotry … that he would be thinking … if he was here.

    Oh, and Jeff G. is condemned for using too many words. Dan, natch, as homophobe. Karl’s sourced analysis of O! (noes) earns him the Robert Byrd Young Life Folly Kleagel Hood. (non speaking variety)

    All is forgiven. Carry on. That is all.

  135. I’d like to have a beer with Barack Obama. And maybe a couple of lines of blow, if he’s holding. I don’t really want him to be president, though. I want him to be president even less than I want McCain to be president. But I’d probably rather crack a brew with Barry, for what that’s worth.

  136. Senator: Oh, fellow Members of the Roman Senate, hear me! Shall we continue to build palace after palace for the rich? Or shall we aspire to a more noble purpose, and build decent housing for the poor? How does the Senate vote?
    Senators: Fuck the poor!-History of the World Part I

  137. Pablo: You got bars in Boston that serve arugula salads? If they have fresh fruit, ask him to bring the kids.

  138. Pablo, are you forgetting that McCain could arrange a sampler tour with his wife? That’s got to be worth a few votes right there.

    Last weekend on NPR the morning host had a joke about having beers with the candidates and Obama’s (imagined) response was something along the lines of “Beer, which my advisors tell me is a hops-based beverage very often enjoyed by the working classes.”

    Personally I can’t imagine drinking with either one of ‘em.

    Living in Chicago gives me an interesting sampling. There’s the girl down the hall who proudly displays an Obama sticker in her cubicle (and took a week’s vacation to go to a camp to help with his campaign), there’s my officemate who is convinced she’s swimming in the kool-aid and let’s not forget the older woman who declared herself “one of Hillary’s demographic” and couldn’t imagine herself voting for Obama.

    I still remember the Ryan unsealing. “For the public’s good” by the Tribune. Of course at the time, I was more disappointed in the things Jeri Ryan wouldn’t do than anything else…. Ahem.

  139. #131: I am, after all, a liberal. An unabashed leftist crank who is not necessarily a supporter of all things government, but is not afraid of a government program or two. I believe global warming is real and we need to be prepared. I am not sure we can stop it, but we can look soberly at how it will probably affect our world and get our asses prepared. I believe that though european socialized medicine is no the greatest thing since sliced bread, what we have now is not okay. I am covered, but I am paying through my ass for the emergency care for people who are not covered. So obviously we should do something different. It is not like we arent paying for uninsured already. I believe that sometimes you DO have to talk to people who are evil assholes. That does not mean you have to give them a reach around. But we talked to Kruschev after he said he would bury us. And we didnt have to give the Russians Florida or anything.

    Okay, so those are a few of the things that Obama is on the same or kind of the same page as me on.
    You may disagree, but it is what it is. I think most people who are supporters of Obama do have SOME substantive reasons for supporting him. But it gets ignored because the narrative is “Obamabots have NO substantive reason for supporting him! The Barackatized freaks!”.

    Ah well. I love a good narrative too.

  140. Obama Black Stripe™ Beer teaching our typical white people to vote for 16 months!

  141. #136: I fucking love you Pablo, lol.

  142. Lisa,

    In some respects, it doesn’t surprise me that you are in DC, on PW, and on the left. DC is a good education in the ideas that dysfunctional psychotic mess that DC is, it is populated in large measure by a bunch of people who are trying to do what they think is right….

    And then fighting to the death about each and every point of discussion on implementation.

    BRD

  143. Lisa,

    Is the answer to paying for the Uninsured more or less government intervention? How will each affect not only the costs, but also the availability of medicine? Doctors, for instance, are people. People who freely choose to enter a profession, what is the impact on them through implementation of “[E]uropean socialized medicine”?

  144. we didnt have to give the Russians Florida or anything

    Only a few minutes after parting with Khrushchev, Kennedy, a World War II veteran, told James Reston of The New York Times that the summit meeting had been the “roughest thing in my life.” Kennedy went on: “He just beat the hell out of me. I’ve got a terrible problem if he thinks I’m inexperienced and have no guts. Until we remove those ideas we won’t get anywhere with him.” A little more than two months later, Khrushchev gave the go-ahead to begin erecting what would become the Berlin Wall. Kennedy had resigned himself to it, telling his aides in private that “a wall is a hell of a lot better than a war.” The following spring, Khrushchev made plans to “throw a hedgehog at Uncle Sam’s pants”: nuclear missiles in Cuba. And while there were many factors that led to the missile crisis, it is no exaggeration to say that the impression Khrushchev formed at Vienna — of Kennedy as ineffective — was among them.

    Indeed.

  145. I don’t dislike Obama, I just disagree with his policy positions. In fact, I’d love the opportunity to bowl with the man. For money.

  146. I believe global warming is real and we need to be prepared.

    How real can it be if the warming peaked in 1998 and we’ve been going down ever since then? And how can the scientists say it’s real when they haven’t done the basic due diligence necessary to establish any degree of causality, let alone set policy.

    And why should you believe in something that’s supported by fudged facts, conflicts of interest (doomsday sells; nothing-to-see-here does not), “secret” undisclosed data sets and methods, and flat-out lying?

    This isn’t a case of people looking at the same data and coming to different conclusions. It’s a case of a few scientists pushing an agenda that fills their pockets and enables their political buddies to get that global government they’ve been hankering after for 100 years.

  147. But I think the president thought we were supporters because we weren’t screaming through bullhorns or dressed in stupid outfits

    I don’t know about “supporters,” but the absence of bullhorns and costumes probably told him you could be won over.

    That, or he thought you were booing the people with the bullhorns and costumes.

    Or for that matter, I suppose he might have waved and winked at the people with the bullhorns and costumes too.

  148. Pingback: Tuesday Obama Round-Up « Nice Deb

  149. Lisa -

    While I respect anyone’s right to self-definition, it seems to me you are more of a Republican than a liberal, and I’m rather forced to strenuously object to the idea that you are a Leftist. Leftists are, necessarily, supporters of “all things government.” This just doesn’t seem to fit with your conclusions – or at least the conclusions you’ve espoused here.

    Forgive me, but I am confused and intrigued by you more than anyone I’ve read in a long while.

  150. #142 Lisa, back at ya, GF. I’d rather have a beer with you than John or Barry.

  151. True, but you should be able to articulate some rational, substantive reasons for your support of him.

    Aldo!
    i did…we talked about it at the Pub.
    i made a kepler-trigo decision matrix, and O! scored way the highest.
    and im honest enough to admit appearance is a factor for me, but it is just one ffactor.
    and the quality of cool.
    ;)
    Lisa mentioned this…the personal magnetism of the president can enable him to get things done.
    Reagan had it in spades.

  152. ahem: Thanks. for the most part, businesses, since they can, always make sure to pass costs to the consumer. This is because businesses exist to stay solvent and make profit, so this is their number one concern. In the case that the business was not able to pass the costs on, it would probably mean that the business is about to die.

  153. My take on global warming is that if it’s happening we’ll know soon enough and people will adapt — just like we adapted to dollar-a-gallon gas, then two-dollar-a-gallon gas, then four-dollar-a-cup coffee…

    One of the areas supposed to be first hit by global warming is the Sacvramento-San Joaquin delta in northern California, not far from where I grew up. For some reason despite years of global warming that’s drowning polar bears and penguins, the islands of that delta, many of which were already below sea level when I was a kid and are protected by levees slightly better constructed and maintained than those at New Orleans — the islands of that delta remain productive farmland rather than salt-water lagoons.

    Even salt-water intrusion up the rivers hasn’t progressed much since I was a kid, and what has occurred is more attributable to drought than to sea-level rise.

    So, I’m still skeptical even of the alleged “fact” of global warming. Sea levels don’t rise only in the Arctic.

  154. Even though he hasn’t commented, I condemn JD for his obvious bigotry … that he would be thinking … if he was here.

    I am a racist. It is a given.

    I am still celebrating Tiger’s extraordinary win yesterday.

  155. I would like have a beer with both Sen.s McCain and Obama. But I would gladly refuse to shake the hand of either Bill of Hillary Clinton. Those two fucktards, I believe, disrespected America by placing their personal ambitions above America’s when they were trusted to do the opposite.

    For the record I used to get mocked here quite a bit when I told certain persons to back off when they were childishly attacking Sen. McCain. Since then I’ve been doubly attacked whenever I defend Sen. Obama. I respect good, honest hardworking people and accept that all persons have flaws and different opinions. I also believe America is one of the greatest countries on earth.

    What am I?

  156. Since then I’ve been doubly attacked whenever I defend Sen. Obama.

    Uh, it’s the mindlessly attacking Karl that’s causing your troubles, bunky.

  157. Tiger Woods is God.

  158. #158: And those, too.

  159. i made a kepler-trigo decision matrix, and O! scored way the highest.

    Bullshit.

    Here’s another free hint for you — “Numb3rs” is fiction.

  160. Tiger has ridiculous game, so much that they ought to just change the name of golf to Tigerball because he owns it. Dude is a golf witch. And Rocco Mediate acquitted himself well in opposing the force of nature that is the Cablanasian. Kudos to both on the most exciting golf ever televised.

    Exciting…golf…televised? No, I never thought I’d say it either.

  161. KK is an obvious racially biased blowhard.

    Barack Obama is an extraordinarily gifted person and politician. Deny that reality then you should be scrutinized for your motivations.

    I’m not afraid to say I think.

  162. Now, I’d have a beer with Tiger!

  163. what I think.

    Tiger Woods is the greatest show on earth.

  164. I’m not afraid to say I think.

    I’m afraid to say you do.

  165. BJTex: At least someone here has noted the O!nanism going on,

    Phew! Someone light incense, or something.

  166. Tiger rawks, what an athelete.
    hehe, i wonder if he will be voting for O?

  167. I wouldn’t have a beer with anyone.

    Rob Crawford- I believe nishi is not, in fact, Japanese. She is a culture-borrower.

  168. What am I?

    Bi-Polar?

  169. #143: I actually live in Baltimore now. And I am from California – which out-liberals even the French.
    #150: No way Zelda. I am a leftist. Always have been. The right has been distorting what a leftist is for a long time. But the truth is that the left is what you think it is. I am not some weird exception. Some lefties are exactly what the right say we are. But most don’t fit the stereotype. There are some leftists who LOVE all things government. Just like there are some cranks on the right who think we should have no govt, including an all mercenary military. I don’t fear government programs. But I don’t embrace all government programs. I don’t hate success or commerce either. But I don’t think taxes are always horrible. But they are not to be taken lightly or for granted.

  170. Let’s face it, the vast majority of Americans aren’t going to vote based on “experience”. I mean, if an unexperienced candidate who had a conservative philosophy was running against a liberal like John Kerry, or Ted Kennedy, I’d vote for the unexperienced guy every time. After all, what good would “experience” be if that experience was all liberal dogma? (And, I’m sure the people on the left feel the opposite).

    Now, the neither side will openly admit that their guy has no real experience – thus the left for O! are going to try and spin his lack of experience into experience, just as we on the right would do if the situation was reversed (a la Bush in 2000 – although he still had more experience than O! does today).

    And, of course, we on the right are going to attack the lack of experience and make fun of the spin. Only about 10-15% in the mushy middle are likely to be swayed at all by claims of experience, and certainly nobody who visits sites like these are going to have their minds changed based on relative experience.

    However, I like how some are instantly in the narrative already though of stating that anyone who does not support O! is a racist. Look Thor, if Hillary had won the nomination we on the right would not be supporting her. It’s called a differing ideology – race has nothing to do with it. It is possible to hold a different view than the one you hold and not be evil, racist, sexist, greedy, etc.

    How can those who are so offended by Goldberg’s book see the left’s need to totally demonize those who they disagree with and not see the stirrings of fascism? It is the left, not the right, that needs to claim that people who disagree with them are evil, mentally ill, etc. Such demonization of your political opponents can never lead to any good result. It dehumanizes your political opponent, which in time will make doing things like rounding up your political opponents for the “greater good” eaiser in the future. After all, those people are evil and harm society. Sounds familiar, no?

  171. I base my vote on the candidates voting record and believable statements–not on their perceived positions. Here is my list of things that matter to me. 1. DEFEND THE COUNTRY–take it to the enemy. Advantage=McCain. 2. ABORTION–stop it. Advantage=McCain. 3. ECONOMICS / BUDGET–reduce spending, no earmarks, keep taxes low. Advantage=McCain. 4. ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION–stop it. Build the border fence now. Fine employers of illegal aliens. No advantage–NADA from both McCain and Obama–we’re toast on this one. 5. ENERGY INDEPENDENCE–start drilling now. Start building nuclear power plants. Start on coal to gas / oil conversion. No global warming scams, no corn based ethanol scam. No subsidies for energy–all sources must stand on their own economic feet. No advantage–NADA from both McCain and Obama–we’re screwed again. 6. JUDICIAL APPOINTMENTS–appoint only conservative constitutional judges. Advantage=McCain. Make your own list and add it up. My list comes up McCain. Rocketman

  172. I thought Baracky stopped the oceans from rising.

  173. why does it drive u into a frenzy that ppl believe in O and admire him?

    Why does it drive some people into a frenzy when others don’t think Obama is the messiah, and think he wouldn’t be a good President?

  174. - Lisa, your #97 is both correct in the taxation BS the Left is trying to hang its hat on, and wrong in thinking oil is market driven.

    - Heres how that falls apart. Some learned oil experts have concluded, on average, it costs the world major oil producers something like 2 bucks a barrel to get it from ground to market. At 136 dollars a barrel its so over priced supply and demand is down below the noise level.

    - The problem is we’re dependent on foreign oil, and we’re dependent in many cases to countries that are very happy to see us suffer, or in Saudi’s case, kept on a very tight financial leash. Its the Lefts wet dream come true, nannyworldism through oil.

    - We don’t want to dig into our reserves for fear of one day totally running out. I think thats at least partially to blame for the ANWAR and Offshore BS. Another mistake was in letting oil prices float at the whims of speculators. It was the only commodity singled out in the SEC regulations pact. Maybe you could make a case about that total screwup against the oil barons and Cheney. Problem is no one on the Dem side complained at the time either.

    - The truth is as long as we’re in this position the oil producers can jerk us around by our noses. and theres not a damn thing we can do about it, except get off the oil tit.

    - Now, when things are finally against the fucking wall you’re starting to hear “nuclear” from the Dems too. Wow. Big fucking deal. Where were they for the last 25 years. And the only reason you’re hearing it is the Dems know that this fuel situation could fuck up their chances, particularly with Iraq coming around.

    - All of a sudden ECO is not such a shiny idea anymore. Problem for some of the “controlling” countries is that things could go too far and get out of hand. They want the control without killing the lead horse. They just want to bleed us as much as possible, but keep us on life support.

    - If we don’t do something, and do it fast to change the equation, we might well be forced to start taking it by force of arms, or drilling every one of our reserves. Both are bandaides that run out in less than 100 years or so.

    - Betting we’ll come up with some miracle alternative is a total crap shoot. We very probably will, but the hurt will happen long before we see that.

  175. If Tiger Woods ever decided to run for President, he would single handedly destroy the current party system. And I would vote for him in a heartbeat.

  176. Great Banana: You had me up until the demonization thing. The right is exquisitely good at demonizing those who disagree with them. We are dhimmis, traitors, lovers of terrorists, haters of freedom, mental patients, fascists, idiots, unAmericans, haters of all that is good, haters of God, etc.

    I admit that you guys get called the same shit.

    But it is a mistake to try to elevate those who agree with you above the political fray. Both sides are up to their shoulders in authoritarian crankery (if you don’t agree with me, you are Teh EVILLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAHHHHH!). I do not believe for one second that there are not leftists engaging in the same things that I complain that the right is doing. You just piss me off more because I don’t agree with your politics.

  177. Pingback: Hot Air » Blog Archive » Hope for no Change: Where’s Obama’s bounce?

  178. “Some learned oil experts have concluded, on average, it costs the world major oil producers something like 2 bucks a barrel to get it from ground to market.”

    This is bull.

  179. #175: I agree with you on a lot. And drilling offshore and in ANWR is not going to do shit except delay the inevitable. We can either take the pain and make some serious changes in where we live, work and play until we can come up with the Energy Miracle or we can start gearing up to invade some motherfuckers.

  180. #176: No, he annoys me in those Buick commercials. That is already a negative.

  181. John Bibb, a good list, to be sure. I suspect, that even to the most vapid voter, the first criterion to be weighed is “do I agree with this guy/gal’s positions/”? Or for peeps, like nishi, who are basically one issue voters, which guy/gal is most in line with that one issue. I wouldn’t have a beer with either McCain or Obama as they are both lying, disingenuous politicians. I’ve been around local politics, my whole life and even that lot is starting to shed sincere belief in governance and doing what they “feel” to be the right thing. National level politicians, for the most part, are robots who are what the party apparatus makes them out to be. They’ve lied to people left and right to get them to vote, or believe in them. And we really DON’T know any of them. We can just go by what it is they say, and more importantly (and this is why experience is important)what it is they do to inform our decision.

  182. - We’re talking raw crude oil Sdferr, exacxtly what is traded on the market, not refined gas or diesel, which what I would bet you’re thinking.

    - If you have a problem with that, take it up with the Oil financial tracking groups. If that revelation pisses you off even more, welcome to the club. No its not bull.

  183. Why would invading be better than drilling? That’s just nuts.

  184. John Bibb, you’re a fine American. You know the issues that matter to you and you’re casting your vote for the presidential candidate who you feel most represents your interests. That is the proper way to vote.

  185. Lisa,

    It is true that both sides demonize the other – although having trolled left web-sites I would argue it is much, much worse on the left.

    As far are authoritarianism goes, history simply does not support your case. The left has Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Castro, etc. Even if you don’t include Hitler and Mussolini as “true” leftists, I think one is hard pressed to call them “true” rightists either. THus, historically, truly abhorent authoritarian regimes have only come from teh left. The right does not suffer from the same historical evidence. Try as one might, it simply does not exist.

    However, even assuming it is equal – what I find fascinating is the leftists who come to a site such as this one, where people are generally engaged in a good natured debate, and start accusing everyone of being racists, etc.

  186. My last two paragraphs in my last comment are supposed to be in reverse order.

  187. #175: Only thing is, BBH – it costs considerably more than two bucks to get oil from ground to market. But yes, demand is driving up profits. But that is how the market works. The more people that want your shit, more you can charge.

  188. I challenge you to provide citations that will persuade, BBH. I have a pretty good idea where that $2.00 came from and let’s just say it is another one of your counterfactuals.

  189. BOOBIES !!!!

  190. It is the left, not the right, that needs to claim that people who disagree with them are evil, mentally ill, etc.

    lulz, GB, haven’t i been called a eugenist and mentally ill and a genocidaire and a babykiller right here on this site?
    no one is above the fray of tribalism.

  191. “The left has Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Castro, etc.”

    Hey – no fair leaving out the Jacobins and Napoleon. Credit must be given where it is due and the first Terror (followed by a nice “War to Change the World”) shouldn’t be cast aside.

  192. BOOBIES !!!!

    Where? *looks around* I don’t see ‘em.

  193. Thor, get over yourself.

    Neither myself nor Karl nor Slarti or JD nor almost anybody else here hates Obama. We don’t think he’s the devil incarnate or the advent of armageddon. We don’t agree with his political philosophy, we find him to be wholly inexperieneced and we find that many of his associations do not match the image he is trying to project. He’s a fine speaker and a good guy. Some may question his lleanings and invoke the “marxist” tag. none of that brands them as racially biased, except in your own head.

    Stop with the racist bias already. It denigrates you more than it does Karl as it paints you as an uncritical, mindless zombie/follower. You know it’s unfair so why not engage in a discussion of the issues raised? Defend your guy, thor, rather than lash out with scurrilous attacks.

    If not, the mocking continues and you won’t be taken seriously. Oh and you might want to look up the difference between “opinion” and “tructh” lest others think you transcedently arrogant.

  194. lulz, GB, haven’t i been called a eugenist and mentally ill and a genocidaire and a babykiller right here on this site?

    Not because of any group affiliation, or perceived group affiliation. You’ve been called these things based on what you say during conversations.

  195. See for real he’s an idiot, this Baracky. I will show you.

    Halt Strategic Petroleum Reserve Purchases: The national Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) has a large supply, but it continues to add to its oil reserves. Because the SPR currently has a significant supply that our country can use during an emergency, Barack Obama believes we should halt filling the SPR until gas prices go down to a reasonable level. This measure will ensure that additional oil remains in the market, and may help reduce oil prices. – Baracky, Apr ’08

    “Much like his gas tax gimmick that would leave consumers with pennies in savings, opening our coastlines to offshore drilling would take at least a decade to produce any oil at all, and the effect on gasoline prices would be negligible at best since America only has three percent of the world’s oil.

    “It’s another example of short-term political posturing from Washington, not the long-term leadership we need to solve our dependence on oil.” – Baracky, 6/17/08

    What a freaking dropped on his head as a baby retard. Him’s gonna be pezzydent? That would be cuteness.

  196. haven’t i been called a eugenist and mentally ill and a genocidaire and a babykiller right here on this site?

    You have only been called a eugenecist and a proponent of genocide when you were actively promoting same, nishit.

  197. “I challenge you to provide citations”

    - Not the way it works. You challange, you provide the counterfactuals to my claims. Karl made this point some time ago, so you’re a little late on the uptake.

    - Lets say that some murky group has a motive to float the 2 dollar figure. even were that true, and I wouldn’t doubt it, even at ten times that, or 20 dollars a barrel, oil would be running at 6 times cost in profitability. Its very much not to the Saudis benefit to have things in such a potential mess. They will try to bring things down by increasing production. Its not so much the actual increased demand by china and India, theres plenty enough supply available to limit that pressure. Its the speculators, and our dependency, and as long as people like you keep playing this denial game its only going to get worse.

  198. lulz, GB, haven’t i been called a eugenist and mentally ill and a genocidaire and a babykiller right here on this site?

    We calls ‘em as we sees ‘em, nishi. The only person responsible for how you’re seen is yourself.

  199. lulz, GB, haven’t i been called a eugenist and mentally ill and a genocidaire and a babykiller right here on this site?
    no one is above the fray of tribalism.

    No, and I admit as such. Both side engage in ad hominen.

    However, I believe it is a question of scope though. You are called those things on this site for certain statements you make (and you purposefully try to goad people into doing it – a la “griefer”). You are not called those things simply b/c you are a “liberal” or “progressive.”

    Many on the left truly seem to believe that anyone purporting to be a conservative is an evil, mentally deficient, racist, sexist, etc., etc. regardless of what the person says or does. I believe there is a distinction there.

    Also, based entirely on my trolling experience, the left seems to be much, much more vitriolic in its hatred of the right and much, much quicker to demonize any opposition without any attemt at thoughful debate.

    However, I suppose those on the left will never see things that way, so engaging in a debate about it is probably useless.

  200. BBH
    You claim $2.00, you provide the cite. I don’t care what you say you and Karl have agreed on (and you give no cite for that either, by the way), I still call BS on “…on average, it costs the world major oil producers something like 2 bucks a barrel to get it from ground to market. …”

  201. #186: I have never bought into trying to pigeonhole some evil dictator into “He was a leftist! No, he was a wingnut!” category. It just never fit for me. Yeah people who are communists should be pretty ashamed at the track record of communism. And in no way does that define the American left. I have always felt that that game was so egregious and wrong-headed. I really caution you to rethink trying to define a group of people that encompasses half of your fellow Americans by some tenuous connection to evil dictators of yore. We are all – on both sides of the aisle – varied and sundry: And for the most part, not evil.

  202. #200: Just recognize that your assessment is biased. If I trolled right wing sites, I would have a similar assessment.

  203. - I am not making any claims Sdferr. You seem to continuously have a reading comprehension problem. I repeated what some oil market anaalysts have claimed, and then I said I wouldn’t be surprised if the real number was higher, even ten times higher.

    - That doesn’t change the fact that oil is totally over priced, even at the higher cost figure, nor does it change the fact that producers like Saudi could care less. What IS important to them, is that the entire market not be destroyed, which was the point that both myself and Karl were trying to make. Apparently that zoomed over your head.

    - If you have some deep seated need to prove that its some other factors than what I outlined then have at it, I’m sure everyone would be interested in your expert opinions.

  204. Here you go BBH, take a look at this and see what you make of it. Look particularly at the graph’s black line indicating foreign producers. Do you see anything there that sinks below the $10.00 line? No? That’s odd.
    http://tinyurl.com/3pnuwr

  205. BJ – I suspect that Baracky is prolly a pretty cool guy. I doubt I would ask him to play golf with me, but in small doses …

  206. I have never bought into trying to pigeonhole some evil dictator into “He was a leftist! No, he was a wingnut!” category. It just never fit for me. Yeah people who are communists should be pretty ashamed at the track record of communism. And in no way does that define the American left. I have always felt that that game was so egregious and wrong-headed. I really caution you to rethink trying to define a group of people that encompasses half of your fellow Americans by some tenuous connection to evil dictators of yore. We are all – on both sides of the aisle – varied and sundry: And for the most part, not evil.

    This might make sense if the history of the left in this country wasn’t a history of support for communism and the USSR – including Carter and Ted Kennedy both seeking the USSR’s help in presidential election campaigns, and the left fighting any attempt to take on the Soviet Union a la Reagan. Or the left’s having poster of Che Guevera up in O! campaign offices.

    Simply claiming that there is no connection between the american left and communism is so far from historically true that I wonder if you really know the background and history of your side of the aisle.

    Indeed, may of the hard left of America today, i.e. the progressives, black liberation theory, etc., are extremely marxist both in philosophy and action.

    To claim no connection is to either be disengenuous or simply to not really know what you are talking about.

    I know that all democrats in america don’t hold those views, but the activists on the left, the KOS people, DU people, Moveon, etc., whether they know where their philosophy stems from or not, are direct descendents from people who supported communism and socialism.

    I understand why those of you on the left never want to discuss the history of ideas, or the history of liberalism/progressivism, but history matters. How ideas have been used / abused in teh past matters. The question of why does the left tend to lead to tyranny matters. Your casual dismissal of such things does not in any way change the fact that they are true.

  207. BBH
    Care to point me to the location of “…the point that both myself and Karl were trying to make. …”? Since I have no idea what you are talking about?

  208. Oh come on. The Obamadoration is bad, but it is not NEARLY as creepy as the post 9/11 Chimpnotization of the GOP. That was not only bad, it was hilarious because he such a complete fucking idiot, but people liked him and voted based on the fact that they would like to have a friggin beer with him. WTF??!?!?

    This is classic BDS. A Yale MBA fighter pilots isn’t a “fucking idiot: just because you don’t like his policies. You can do better than this Lisa.

  209. - Directly from the article you cited:

    “…[In] 2006, average production costs (or “lifting” costs, the cost to bring a barrel of oil to the surface) ranged from about $4 per barrel (excluding taxes) in Africa to about $8.30 per barrel in Canada; the average for the U.S. was $6.83/barrel (an increase of 23% over the $5.56/barrel cost in 2005). Besides the direct costs associated with removing the oil from the ground, substantial costs are incurred to explore for and develop oil fields (called “finding” costs), and these also vary substantially by region. Averaged over 2004, 2005 and 2006, finding costs ranged from about $5.26/barrel in the Middle East1 to $63.71/barrel for U.S. offshore.

    - All of which not only proves my point, namely oil is so very over priced, normal market driving factors are pretty much out the window, but brings up another point that offshore drilling is not very cost competitive.

    - Now what exactly didn’t you understand about the term “overpriced”.

  210. I never said there was no connection to communism. You are using a bit of slippery sophistry here Banana.

    I am saying we are not connected to dictators from other countries – communistor otherwise. They do NOT DEFINE the American left. And because there are communists in the Democratic party, does that make us all communists? I think that is hacktacular, at best.

    I think you hope I dont know what I am talking about, but I do. They get away with those kinds of assertions on AM radio and the cable news, but it does not make it any more true.

  211. “…the fact that oil is totally over priced…”

    This little nugget of wisdom came from where, the same place as the $2.00/bbl avg price from ground to market? Such splendid flights of fancy you have there, almost as persuasive as Dick Durbin in full oratorical outrage. Try again.
    And lectures on reading comprehension, meh, I could take ‘em or leave ‘em as I’m not sure that having to read them, y’know, would assure that I’d come away with anything, O wise BBH.

  212. And, by saying that american liberal / progressive thought is descended from marxist thought, does not say that people who think that way are evil. Nor is pointing out that leftist ideology tends to lead to tyranny mean that everday americans who hold hard left views are evil.

    The problem is that power corrupts. So, an ideology that seeks to make the gov’t more or less all powerful, but expanding gov’t to every sphere of life, will tend to corrupt.

    I know plenty of hard-core leftists, and I know that they have the best of inentions and want to “help” people and make society better (through gov’t of course). But, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. That is the point I try to make, and point to the history of such “good intentiion” leftist thought to try and make people on the left understand why many of us on the right are so dubious of giving gov’t unfettered power over everything.

  213. Just what constitutes ‘normal’ or ‘fair’ price, BBH? What you decide it should be?

  214. Nishi, this should interest you.

  215. Yeah people who are communists should be pretty ashamed at the track record of communism. And in no way does that define the American left.

    How old are you? I can clearly remember the late Cold War years, when the quickest way to get the Democrats to agree to something was to have the Kremlin put it in a press release.

  216. Lisa,

    So, you admit my point, but seem to say it doesn’t matter. Of course not all dems are communist, but all dem “solutions” to problems involve redistributing wealth. Intersting, no?

    I’m going, not worth discussing further, really. Except I’ll ask this question once again – why do you suppose it is that leftist ideology has led to so many atrocities, but conservative ideology has not?

  217. - Well, what can I say. I reposted your own article back to you that supports my original point in spades, and you go all snarky over it.

    - Not sure you have any real point in this dumb ass exchange, other than what I suspected in the first place. You’re pissed off about things in general.

    - As I said before. Take it up with either your own cited analysts or the spectulators. But either way, denials are just going to make things worse.

  218. Nah, some of you probably just mutter it under your breath when you see him hoisting up and then kissing the U.S. Open trophy, Slarti.

    fuck off thor.

  219. #209: I can call him a fucking idiot. That is perfectly reasonable. I don’t call him a Nazi, a Marxist, a racist, or a baby killer.

    Don’t you think you are taking this hackneyed “bush derangement syndrome” nonsense a bit too far? My god, unless one is praising his codpeice, we are deranged? What the fuck?

    Please, I think YOU need to do better. I detest and am weary of the bullying, overbearing crap that says “You shut up or praise us while we berate you!”

    Believe me, Obama has been called all manner of clowns and silly simpering twits on this site. I don’t think that is unfair. That is perfectly legitimate opinion. Now if you called him some kind of subversive, bloodthirsty terrorist, that would be out of bounds – and possibly ODS.

    I cant believe I am having to explain this to you. That tactic is so tired and ridiculous that I am surprised you could keep a straight face while typing it.

  220. Just as an aside, since it isn’t really on point, I’m not fond of statements like this: “…as long as people like you keep playing this denial game its only going to get worse.”
    Can you guess why I’m not fond of such statements, BBH?

  221. #217: Left and right wing ideologies lead to atrocities. You can play this stupid game all day but I am not going to play it with you. You want to make people who don’t think like you into evil inhuman monsters, go to it. Shall I get you a depends for when you shit your pants every day waiting for us to come round you up?

    Have fun skipping down the road of “the left is evil and their ideology leads to genocide and evil dictators”. That is a fucking lie and you know it. But go ahead. Go hide in your shed with a gun and your copy of the Turner Diaries or something. We are coming to exterminate you……woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

    LOL

  222. See you later gaters!! This has been fun.

  223. “Can you guess why I’m not fond of such statements, BBH?

    - Because I hit a nerve? If so then good. As long as we play this blame game based on pure politics that begs the real causes, and play blind man to whats going on we’ll never start to reverse things.


  224. So, you admit my point, but seem to say it doesn’t matter. Of course not all dems are communist, but all dem “solutions” to problems involve redistributing wealth. Intersting, n

    And, many lists, by liberals, of societal ills read straight as if they were from the “Communist Manifesto.” If it walks like a duck ….

  225. I am saying we are not connected to dictators from other countries – communistor otherwise. They do NOT DEFINE the American left. And because there are communists in the Democratic party, does that make us all communists?

    It does mean you tolerate them.

    There was a story a while ago about a politician — ostensibly a Republican — who gave a speech to a neo-Nazi group. Republicans were disgusted. AFAICR, the fellow’s primary bid failed massively. Hell, when David Duke ran for office, the state Republican party endorsed his Democrat opponent and Reagan cut commercials against Duke. And I remember when Pat Buchanan was essentially chased from the mainstream of the conservative movement because of his obvious antisemitism.

    And, of course, Trent Lott was hounded out of his leadership position because of his truly idiotic remarks.

    Maybe it’s because it doesn’t get publicized, but I don’t recall anyone really being pushed out of the Democrats for going too far. I can think of two cases — Cynthia McKinney (who got right back into office, albeit as a Green) and Lieberman. Based on other events, I think McKinney just had poor timing — the idiotic investigation turned anti-Israel rally held in the Democrat party headquarters is evidence of that — but Lieberman’s fault wasn’t going too far left, but for not following the extremists in the party.

    Then there’s folks like Ayers…

  226. Sugartits

  227. BBH
    No BBH, “…Because I hit a nerve? If so then good. As long as we play…”
    that’s not it at all, sorry. Want to try again?
    How do you know what I think about your general thesis in the light of the fact that I have not addressed it yet? I may agree with you, for all you know, and yet you feel justified in characterizing my position before I’ve had an opportunity to articulate it? Now that, it seems to me, is an odd way of conversing, don’t you think? I criticize your $2.00 assertion (and am proved correct) and you claim my criticism is to prove you right about another question altogether. That’s an odd way to go about conversing, which is for me, not a game, but something much more serious or couldn’t you tell that? If that’s so, I must not be doing a very good job of communicating and will promise to try harder in future.

  228. Lisa, I used to think you had an open mind.

    Not so much anymore.

  229. If you pop back in, Lisa, there is a saying over here on the right:

    “The right thinks the left is misguided or crazy, but the left thinks the right is evil.”

    When it comes to severing friendships over politics, the left does it much more than the right. An NYT article said so.

    Also, right-wing cannot lead to tyranny if, by right-wing, we mean “less government.” If you’re talking theocrat, that’s a whole ‘nother spectrum we’re looking at.

    The only way less government can lead to tyranny is if there’s so little government that chaos reigns, and the strong and aggressive prey on the weak and pacifist until we’re Afghanistan: tons of fragmented tribes who are bound together for mutual protection and who are at war continually.

  230. - No I don’t care to “try again”. We’ve already gone through 10+ plus posts with you doing everything you can to prove my point. So then, “whats the point”. I said oil overpricing is driving the market through speculation, not supply and demand, and here we are all those posts later and you’ve decided that was a loser so you turned to the personal. Fine. So be it.

    - If I judged you to quickly or harshly, I offer my apologies. Maybe I’m just a bit short tempered with people trying so diligently to use what is really happening as a political football, instead of taking the time to actually study the real problems.

  231. #229: I don’t agree with Banana on this and I am not going to be persuaded into thinking that the entire left is responsible and is directly defined by dictators, genociders, and general evildoers so I don’t have an open mind?

    Well I am fucking crushed.

    And how many times have you pronounced yourself disappointed or disgusted with me? Add this one to the list. You can see it shatters me to the core.

  232. Dicentra you are spot on on both counts. I could say “no, no, no” but I am still burned up about how nasty we were to each other about this primary and shocked at Hillary people who won’t speak to me anymore.

    I think authoritarianism is a whole different animal than conservatism. I try to make that distinction.

  233. - Lisa, I think one of the valid points that are made in this area is the willingness of the Dems to accept every sort of fruitcake under the big tent. I’m not sure thats such a positive thing to brag about, but I also don’t think for a minute you share their craziness. I don’t find it particularly surprising either. The minority party needs all the votes it can muster. Nothing wrong with that, as long as the fruitcakes never gain any real power.

    - I think that saucer shot is so Kicinich.

  234. shocked at Hillary people who won’t speak to me anymore.

    I recently read that the Clinton Machine is busy compiling an enemies list. I think the guy who coined the name Hillary Millhouse Clinton nailed it.

  235. #235: Big time.

  236. Consider yourselves denounced. Denounced, and condemned. Denounced and condemned and disowned. Denounced and condemned and disowned and thrown under the back of the bus. Oh, racist sexist homophobes too.

  237. - Jeebus… “valid points that is made”….

    - I’m starting to sound like al Gore.

  238. You don’t know what I study from my own speech, BBH, because you can’t wait to tell me what I study or don’t study, since you think you already know. I turned it personal? Take a look back at the posts you refer to. I don’t think I turned it personal, (“You seem to continuously have a reading comprehension problem” you said. Of course, that’s not personal, just factual, right BBH?) I just don’t like economics done with crap data, sorry. Would that the conversation had ever got further down the road to discuss your thesis, rather than get stuck having you think I confuse crude oil with refined product, or that I have some imagined anger issues you cook up in your head to explain how I could ever disagree with (the omniscient) you. The lingering questions of current policy vis a vis energy production and the economic future of our beloved nation is a very big deal, something I think everyone ought to feel a duty to try to understand and far too important to be trifled with, if you get my drift. Bill O’Reilly, for instance, is not helpful in this regard, imo. Nor, as far as I can see, are most of our sitting Senators and Congressmen. A few may be serious about it, but very few.

  239. I’d have a beer with Barack. Thor, not so much.

  240. Please let my name be on the Clintons enemies list. Please please please please please please.

  241. We aere too small for the list JD. It includes people like Bill Richardson, and probably (my speculation) Patty Solis Doyle now.

  242. #237: (Giggles)Hi JDizzle. I meant to wave to you earlier, but I was too busy being pissy and denouncalicious.

    Denounces you for disowning me. You can’t get rid of the L-gangsta so easily (gets her 9 out of the back of her escalade).

  243. “The lingering questions of current policy vis a vis energy production and the economic future of our beloved nation is a very big deal, something I think everyone ought to feel a duty to try to understand and far too important to be trifled with, if you get my drift. Bill O’Reilly, for instance, is not helpful in this regard, imo. Nor, as far as I can see, are most of our sitting Senators and Congressmen. A few may be serious about it, but very few.

    - Ok. Setting aside all the carefully crafted snark, or whining, or whatever it is you think you have a beef with me over, the last is the first time you’ve used the pixels to say anything relevant.

    - Since you seem to be stuck in a “poor me” mood to day, I’ll take that as an affirmative, and let it go at that. Never look a gift horse in the mouth I always say.

  244. About a beer with nishi, RTO? Assuming, of course, she’s of age, and that alcohol doesn’t mess with her meds.

  245. Okay I am really getting back to my project now. For real.

    Hee hee.

  246. So you still think you know where the price of crude should be? Or no?

  247. The Left has pretty much done their own defining, Lisa. Any societal problem that erupts, the Leftist’s first instinct is to form some government bureaucracy to deal with it, and any person who attempts to say “let it be” is pigeonholed as uncaring.

    But based on your own statement:

    I don’t fear government programs. But I don’t embrace all government programs. I don’t hate success or commerce either. But I don’t think taxes are always horrible. But they are not to be taken lightly or for granted.

    I don’t see how you can be considered a Leftist. You seem more of a centrist. Unless you are trying to argue that the Leftist argument is centrist in which case we will never agree on terms.

    I don’t think the right has been distorting what a leftist is. Even you admit that some are exactly what “the right” claims they are. So why would you choose to identify with them as opposed to those in the middle?

    I’m certainly not a Leftist. But neither would I choose to identify with anarchists, racists, religious cultists, or whoever else is pegged as being from “the right,” hence my devotion to what Mr. Goldstein refers to as classic liberalism.

    I guess I’m just confused by your willingness to be lumped in with the stereotypical leftists to the point of voting for their candidate when it appears that your priorities lie elsewhere.

    All I ever read from you is that “not all Democrats are like that” when something you disagree with is brought to your attention. You never defend the ones who are “like that” and while it is refreshing, it is a little baffling. If some “are” and they are attempting to do something contrary to your personal desires, how does it benefit you to keep identifying with them, especially when there are others who are more in tune to your points of view? It’s as if the term means more to you than the agenda.

    I always try to put myself in the other person’s shoes. But I can safely say that if someone pointed out things about McCain with which I disagreed or went contrary to my opinions, my response wouldn’t be “all Republicans aren’t like that.” It doesn’t make any sense.

  248. When it comes to severing friendships over politics, the left does it much more than the right. An NYT article said so.

    AMEN. I come off rather liberal in person (first impressions), and people often (mistakenly) assumed I was one. Shunned, I was. Shunned.

  249. - And Lisa, you do know that both you and JD’s Golden inner circle cards have been updated with the Flying Eagle turd cluster, giving you both”Uber-Denouncing” powers. I wasn’t sure you had received the letter from the Commish. Congratulations.

  250. #248: I don’t lump myself in with anyone Zelda. I just don’t bother trying to relabel myself to distance myself from something I don’t like. It is tiresome and you end up running around in circles because there is always going to be someone who is in your “group” that does something you don’t like. So then you have to pick up your chips and run to some other group to make yourself look good. That could get really confusing. I could say that I am a classical liberal but really who gives a handcrafted shit in the end? I am not a Republican so I am going to be labeled a leftist, Maoist crank anyway.

    I will stop bothering to point out the generalizations since it is so tiresome to me and everyone else. But just because I am a Democrat and to the left of the aisle – but don’t get cute with the labels, I don’t have to defend some crankish tree hugging letter bomber either.

  251. 124. Comment by CArin -BONC on 6/17 @ 11:14 am #
    So if I don’t vote for Obama because he’s visually appealing, or want to have a beer with him, then I guess I’m just a racist! Thanks, now I don’t have to watch the debates!

    Oh, I’d have a beer with him.

    Now y’all be reinforcing the stereotype of homeboys laying back in the crib chilling over 40-dogs.

    65. Comment by thor on 6/17 @ 9:52 am #
    …is like saying Tiger Woods is just another dumb nigger without his golf clubs,

    That would be big news to Tiger’s mom and Tiger’s paternal white relations.
    Tiger is less black than Obama is; less black than Obama is teleprompted.

    You’re being silly. Tiger’s actually won a few trophies, and he doesn’t get the PGA to disqualify the rest of the field in order to win them.
    As for gear, unlike BHO’s teleprompter but like Kevin Costner in Tin Cup and Eric Bana in Lucky You, Tiger could make the last day on just his 3 wood and a putter.

    why does it drive u into a frenzy that ppl believe in O and admire him?

    5. Comment by Lisa on 6/17 @ 8:01 am #
    The hopey-changey shit is pretty ridiculous, but it should not be surprising. We vote based on who makes us feel comfy or hopey, or thrilled. This is not new.

    Yeah. See Massachusetts, Commonwealth of, Gubernatorial Election 2006.
    Fellow Chicagoan and Obama clone Deval Patrick was David Axelrod’s test run on the hopey-changey shit. He’s as thinly executive; economically ignorant; and politically inept, in office, as Obama is-we’re talking backroom here, not campaigning or TV speaking- despite a legislative and culturally partisan majority Stalin would envy.
    Right now it doesn’t look like Deval could coordinate lunch; his economic “plan” consists of little more than radio spots during Sox broadcasts begging companies to relocate to MA, his approval rating has fallen to 34% inside eighteen months, his PR crew touts economic growth at a rate less than the US as a whole last quarter as evidence MA itself isn’t in recession related to the other NE states, even the Globe is sick of him, and the state is hemorrhaging taxbase in population and businesses at an increasing rate.
    MA (and RI) didn’t go Hillary by 60% because of its appalachian peckerwoodness.
    Be warned: Obama will be Deval times 50. Worse, 57.

    5. Comment by Lisa on 6/17 @ 8:01 am #
    At least with Obama we have a guy who has two brain cells to rub together and will probably be a good president (he might suck…but then so might McCain, in spite of his long tenure as a gub’ment employee).

    15. Comment by dicentra on 6/17 @ 8:29 am #
    Those two brain cells that Obama rubs together are bathed in Ivy League Kool-Aid, which endows the partaker with the illusion that if they can jump through the Ivy League hoops, they are fit to rule the world.
    In fact, most Ivy Leaguers aren’t fit to run a hot-dog stand. I went to Cornell, and I can testify that I could not run one if my life depended on it. Neither could 90% of the people there, and that includes half of the MBA candidates.
    I have not seen any evidence that Obama has thought through the positions he spouts. He’ll propose something, then there’s an outcry, then he says, “ok then, we’ll do this instead.” He’s just flailing around for something that people want to hear. He has no idea what the impact or consequences are of what he’s proposing.

    I’m not impressed by Ivy League credentials or any supposed intelligence. The ability to run a large organization is a specialized skill. Either you’ve got it or you don’t. There’s no evidence that Obama does.

    In short, dicentra, when presenting presidential smarts, the Barackians/Obamists suddenly submitting TWO! Ivy League degrees as resume bullet point #1, after seven years of needing to be little more than a one brain celled monkey to acquire them, is fascinating.
    Even more than attaining patriotic virtue from one’s (more distant) WWII veteran forbears.

    Before the Obama campaign pipes up with how 41 got 43 into Yale, may I remind them of Barack Sr’s Harvard legacy.

    166. Comment by RiverC on 6/17 @ 12:26 pm #
    At least someone here has noted the O!nanism going on…

    That’s good. Can I steal that?

    66. Comment by BJTex on 6/17 @ 9:52 am #
    Happy, we’re talking WINDFALL profits. Of course, you missed my “windfall profit” google search I did last week. We’re going to have to socialize nationalize a whole lotta companies that are making over 9% net.
    Ok, every body raise their hands if they think that a Windfall Profit Tax Bill on oil companies will result in lower energy prices for consumers.
    [.....] *crickets*
    Oh, I forgot! dataless dave, he of the “corporations exist to serve the public trust,” has been banned from our midst. Any body else who did raised their hands: Please go and instantly bath yourself in clue musk. (h/t RTO)

    Our. Energy. Policy. Is. A. Joke.
    Not if you voted for it.
    Which reminds me, I haven’t heard a Patriot Act rant from the DemUndGd in awhile.

    I second a windfall profits tax for memoirists, with a surcharge when said are authored pre-retirement/achievement.

  252. . But just because I am a Democrat and to the left of the aisle – but don’t get cute with the labels, I don’t have to defend some crankish tree hugging letter bomber either.

    I thought that was part of the deal?

    I find it interesting that the right (or whatever it is we are over here) have debates ALL THE TIME regarding ideological differences. You should have been here during Schivo. It was ugly. The perception (which is reality!) is that the left doesn’t have the same sort of debate. You let the tree-huggers sit over there and pretty much leave them alone.

    The right … well, we eat our own.

    What’s funny, is that in retrospect the right gets slapped with the whole Schivo dealo as if we were in lockstep about the matter. Which was so far from the truth.

  253. Oh, I’d have a beer with him.

    Now y’all be reinforcing the stereotype of homeboys laying back in the crib chilling over 40-dogs.

    Well, now if I was gonna go all stereotype-y, I would have said I would have a “Gin and Juice” with O! Or … a Remy Martin Daiquiri.

    Detroit bartender for years and years I was …

  254. #
    Comment by RTO Trainer on 6/17 @ 2:46 pm #

    I’d have a beer with Barack. Thor, not so much.

    Awwww, is it because I said I could beat you up? Out in Fort Worth when I was 16 I fought in an AAU tournament at the Panther City Boys Club and Robin Blake beat my ass good. He wasn’t military, but his daddy was. Do take some solace in that because I turned about a dozen or so military men into boys. You’d be in good company, soldier, ha!

  255. Yeah, but that was last year.

  256. Pingback: Public Secrets: from the files of the Irishspy

  257. “About a beer with nishi, RTO?”

    Nishi? That’d require a combination of cheap vodka and tequilla shooters progressively for a number of hours prior to such an event to put me in a suitable frame of mind (unconscious) to be able to enjoy such a thing.

    I might be tempted to raid the Jeff/’Dillo pharmaceutical stash as well if it appeared that I was running short of time.

  258. What’s funny, is that in retrospect the right gets slapped with the whole Schivo dealo as if we were in lockstep about the matter. Which was so far from the truth.

    Oh relly?

    Congressional Republicans anticipated Greer’s adverse ruling well before it was delivered and worked on a daily basis to find an alternative means of overturning the legal process by utilizing the authority of the United States Congress. On March 20, 2005, the Senate, by unanimous consent, passed their version of a relief bill; since the vote was taken by voice vote, there was no official tally of those voting in favor and those opposed. Soon after Senate approval, the House of Representatives passed an identical version of the bill S.686, which came to be called the “Palm Sunday Compromise” and transferred jurisdiction of the Schiavo case to the federal courts. The bill passed the House on March 21 at 12:41 a.m. EST. President Bush flew to Washington D.C. from his vacation in Texas in order to sign the bill into law at 1:11 a.m. EST.

  259. - I can just imagine Gore answering reporters questions after the announcemt… something like this:

    Reporter: “…So then does this mean you agree with him on all the issues as he states them and support him 100%?”

    Gore: “No question about it…Of course I are…”

    - You have to admire Al…..hes always careful befiore he jumps on any available bandwagon.

  260. Yes, Nishi, really. I guess you were still too little to read back then.

  261. yup, Aldo, there is beaucoup material on the biological basis for homosexuality.
    i kinda favor dr. cochrans gay germ theory.
    have u seen Carl Zimmers work on parasitology?
    Parasite Rex
    PuppetMasters

  262. boobs for all – and to all a boobs’ night!

  263. “At worst, we have Axelrod’s campaign of personality attracting a cult of followers so creepy that even many Obama backers are put off by it…”

    I do find some of the ‘fans’ of Obama creepy, TBH, but no less creepy than a guy who writes 10,000 words/day nitpicking his entire life.

    I guess I’m somewhere in the middle…

  264. There’s boobs and then there’s boobs. Nishi and Thor are the wrong kind.

  265. I recommend his new book on Ecoli too

  266. “nitpicking his entire life”

    Upon which of Obama’s many and varied accomplishments would you prefer Karl concentrate? Have you a list to hand with specific actions taken by Obama which are more worthy of scrutiny than the nits which comprise the greatest bulk of what is known of him?

    By all means, pad the fellows resume – cover the entire inside of the matchbook cover, if you can.

  267. I suggest, nish, you visit this blog’s archive of March 2005.

  268. Did nishi just call gays “diseased parasites”?

  269. McCain: “We need to reverse our thinking abd move to offshore drilling, as an at least short term aid.”

    Obama: “McCain is flip-flopping, and pandering to the oil ineterests.

    - Latest Poll 67% for – 19% against

    - Even 59% of Dems/Left are for.

    - Oops. What difference a few weeks of skyhigh gas prices can make.

  270. I think authoritarianism is a whole different animal than conservatism. I try to make that distinction.

    And that is a good distinction to make. It goes both ways for left and for right. Now, to put in my opinion. If a person has in mind a big solution to a problem, power will be needed to put the solution into place. That leads to authoritarianism, because it is based on power.

    Totalitarianism is extreme authoritarianism, every seperate power base in society must be dominated and placed under control – economic, government(all branches), religion, civic groups, social clubs – everything. As I understand it, those who propose utopianist solutions are by nature proto-totalitatarians because to promote their program, make their ideas real, they need power over every aspect of society. Ohterwise there will be contrary elements that do not pull with the plan, but work against the plan.

    The left has been the house of utopianist thinking since the nineteenth century, Marx and Engels putting it all down in writing. Totalitarianism kills; the cold record of history is my cite for this.

    Myself, I am a conservative because I want to keep power broken up – federalism, three branches of the federal government, freedom of religion, etc. I believe the pooling of power is the sign of a tyranny – as Ric has said about ‘ants finding sugar’ – power-hungry assholes gravitate to power. Keeping power seperated frustrates would-be tyrants. In my experience the American leftis more interested in pooling power to acieve big plans; the American right less so.*

    *I (if I had been an adult then) would have supported the civil rights movement because it was acknowledging – and making certain – that all US citizens could exercise the same rights and powers equally. That is not, to me, a left or right thing, it is an equality of all citizens before the law thing. That does not pool power; that actually breaks power down so that all have equal power under the constitution. That does not give license to one to say ‘let’s gather all power together’. That is a seperate thing altogether, and the use of support for the one (civil rights) to give legitimacy to the other (gathering all of the nation’s seperate power groups under one control) is a scam, and in my experience the American left has tried to do that.

  271. Myself, I am a conservative because I want to keep power broken up – federalism, three branches of the federal government, freedom of religion, etc.

    ah, but that is the “old” definition of conservative.
    the current crop of conservatives seem to want to impose their religous values on the rest of us.
    unlss freedom of religion means your freedom to impose your religion?

  272. Clearly, Jindal should not be allowed to have an opinion guided by his religion. For shame.

  273. #254 Carin – “Detroit bartender for years and years I was …”

    What bars? In law school (1993-1996) we liked Old Shillelagh’s, and there was BC’s. O’Halloran’s Tipperary Pub was also visited by yours truly in the 1993-1999 time.

    Old S we would hit on the last day of finals. I remember going in there with about 80 other people and the bartender frantically calling for waitstaff reinforcements.

    “Where are you guys from?”
    “Detroit College of Law. Finals are over, and we need beer!”

  274. I second happyfeet’s “Obama is an idiot” proposal and as my supporting evidence I submit that Barry had Al Gore on stage flinging a big hunk of Katrina poo while Iowa and the contiguous remain under a torrent with nary a peep.

    And that is not the thor I know.

  275. “Sauceriness we can believe in! O!”

  276. the current crop of conservatives seem to want to impose their religous values on the rest of us.

    Bullshit, nishi. Pure bullshit.

  277. I think that one thing Lisa might not understand about P-dub regulars is that when we target “the Left,” we’re not thinking about Everyone Who Is Not a Republican.

    We’re thinking of doctrinaire Leftists, people who actually do admire authoritarian regimes such as Castro(s) and Mao and Lenin and Stalin and even Hitler and Mussolini, and admire them because they envy their ability to impose their will on the masses.

    We’re thinking of these morons, who live in their own bubble of frothing rage that is born of their frustration of not being in power.

    We’re thinking of the Halls of Academia, where people deal in ideas, and the rubber never hits the road. Where its denizens are convinced that they are better than those NASCAR-loving, cousin’-marryin’, Bible-thumpin’ rednecks in the heartland who don’t know what’s good for them. They’re the ones who wonder “What’s the Matter with Kansas?” because they can’t fathom that anyone in their right mind would see the world differently than they.

    We’re thinking of the real Liberal Fascists, people who want to create Utopia on earth by micromanaging everyone’s lives, whether it be Huckabee’s desire to make us all diet or Obama’s desire to stop us from adjusting the thermostat.

    We are able to see the wide continuum of ideas that live left-of-center, and we know that people self-identify as liberal or left or Democrat for a variety of reasons, most of them benign, and that most of the folks like you make perfectly fine paisanos.

    It was very telling that a few weeks ago, you were asking us about what we planned to do with all these evil leftists, and the question took me aback.

    DO with? Since when was that even a consideration? What right would we have to do anything with anybody, just because we think their ideas are not good for the country? It sounds like you’ve been among too many folks who fantasize about eliminating their competition or summat.

    At P-dub, we don’t dream of the day when nobody disagrees with us. On the contrary, we are glad that there is open disagreement because it keeps everyone honest.

    But aside from that, arguing that one side or the other is meaner isn’t really important. What matters is what either side offers in the way of ideas and solutions.

  278. #255 – No, thor; it is because you act like such a jerk here I can extrapolate what your behavior towards the waitstaff would be like. I wouldn’t want to get tossed out and banned from a favorite pub just because you’re a jerk. Your company isn’t worth the loss of a congenial pub.

    Like the one I am at right now; they’re so nice and I try not to be burden to them (like policing up my own table). Being a good, polite regular has its benefits – such as the occaisional free beer!

  279. - BTW Sdferr, FOX just did a short special on the whole “speculation” thing, and apparently there are quite a few people in various positions of expertese, finacial, oil markets, etx, that strangly think that oil prices at the pump could be up 30-40%, hust from that factor alone.

    - Of course any of the usual suspects that testify in front of Congress, including the SEC itself, mostly the very people that are making all the windfall profits, cop to needing more data to “make an informed decision”.

    Translation: Drag things out as long as possible to grab as much profit as they can before the jig is up.

  280. #273 – matoko, you are the self-identified muslim, and you complain about imposing religion on others? Truly the human mind can rationalize any belief.

    Have you had breakfast at Milliways yet?

  281. We’re thinking of doctrinaire Leftists, people who actually do admire authoritarian regimes such as Castro(s) and Mao and Lenin and Stalin and even Hitler and Mussolini, and admire them because they envy their ability to impose their will on the masses.

    And Chavez, and Mugabe, and Mao, and Che, and Ho, and…

    I mean, fer crissake, Carter out-and-out said he prefers dealing with dictators, because dictators “speak for all their poeple” — IOW, don’t have to deal with all that pesky consensus building, give-and-take, and such that comes with governing a country of free men.

  282. What’s the matter with Kansas makes me think reflexively, what’s the matter with Michigan, not least since the state of Michigan keeps running TV commercials telling whoever will listen that it’s a great place to do business. Must not be too convincing. They’ve been running these commercials for a couple of years now so I guessing they’re not having much success in attracting immigrants. Ex-migrants, no problem. So, what is the matter with Michigan?

  283. So’s the gay germ, Cochran couldn’t get it published in a peer-reviewed journal.

  284. ‘Speculators’ as a class are just another “boogieman’, BBH. Milton Friedman, not so much.

  285. - Of course Sdferr. How silly of me. I forgot the “identity politics” thing. The fact that of all the commodity matkets, fuel alone has gone through the roof, and the much smaller increases in other ares are also driven by the fuel increases.

    - Must just be some of that “boogieman” greegree at work. How much are you invested in the Market?

  286. Sdferr – Michigan does have a problem amongst many, but this one problem I will address. About 3/4 of the Michigan government budget is dedicated; that is, the taxes, fees, licenses, etc. go to dedicated funds that are not under the control of the state legislature. Certain things, such as prisons, State Police, etc. are in the general budget, the 1/4 that is under the control of the legislature and the governor. That makes it difficult for the government to cut back in bad times because that truly means cutting essential services, and not other services.*

    California has much the same problem.

    *Cutting the state police would be devestating to the rural areas of Michigan. The entire Upper Peninsula, and half of the Lower Peninsula depend on the MSP for a good part of their police – there just aren’t the people year-round to do otherwise.

  287. Nishi, go over to the Pub when you get a chance.

  288. If by ‘invested in the market’ you mean, believe in free market capitalism, in enforcible contracts made by free men acting freely to trade goods, labor, services, not under the coercion of another party, then quite deeply invested, BBH. If, on the other hand as I believe you mean, do I trade in the commodity markets and have to gain financially thereby, not a bit more than my mutual funds may undertake, the which, I do not know.

  289. I have heard it said, Mikey, that Michigan has been in its own recessive economy for some time now. Is that true? It was once an enormous industrial powerhouse unlike any other. If the quality of governance in Mich. played a role in that drastic change, take Thomas Frank’s thesis about Kansas and ask “why do Michiganers vote against their economic interests?”

  290. Holy Jupiter! Just got off the phone with both of my brothers; for my neice’s baptism in two weekends the Canadians are coming over. Between the Canadians and the Colombians and the rest of us Michiganders the state is going to rock slightly on its foundations.

    This is the best! Thank God mom and dad are not going to be in the ame hotel else the evil eye may fall on our behavior!

    What am I saying? We’ll have sheriff’s deputy with us – what could go wrong?*

    *Answer: The Mind Boggles.

  291. - I too am strictly for “free markets”, which means I am against any sort of unregulated speculation, which is manipulation outside the bounds of normal market trading controls, and therefore anything but “free”. Its much the same problem they had in the early days of the Chicago futures market, until enough investers got badly defrauded, and they brought them under proper regulations.

    - Again, strangely enough, Oil futures at present, are the only contracts with an exemption. The coincidences simply abound.

  292. You are alluding to future imbibition, mayhap?

  293. So under ‘regulation’, I’m to understand freedom? Arbeit macht frei! Ya, wohl mein fuhrer, also sprach…

  294. We’re thinking of the real Liberal Fascists, people who want to create Utopia on earth by micromanaging everyone’s lives, whether it be Huckabee’s desire to make us all diet or Obama’s desire to stop us from adjusting the thermostat.

    What about your desire to impose judeoxian morality on us? Your desire to only fund research or social programs that conform to ur religious ethos? Your desire to have creationism in the guise of IDT taught in science class?
    you want to micromanage our souls.

  295. Sdfer – because when these things were done it was a ‘seeing the tree, not the forest’ thing. It is easy to say that such and such a fee should only go to such and such a thing. And some things from the feds (license fees for regulating interstate trucking) can only go to certain uses (safety inspections on trucks.

    Michigan is a heavy industry state, and very dependent on the automobile industry. As long as that manufacturing (and support – such as design, parts, tooling) was here it was good. When that spread out there was left a high overhead in programs and clean-up of old sites. You want to talk brown-fields? We got them in bushels here – the late mineteenth and early twentieth century were not enlightened about what to do with industrial waste. I.E.; see Zug Island. It is actually uglier than its name.

    To actually go into each problem Michigan has would require a four hundred page thesis. I just clipped the surface. And yet, it is a beautiful state, with good people who do work hard. And I love her. She is home.

  296. - Umm….How did we get on a technique used in oil recovery….you lost me there. Its shows promise if thats what you mean. I believe I saw something to the effect its already being used in some natural gas fields. Forcing water into the ground to recover hard to get at deposites. What does that have to do with speculation?

  297. - Also I think its used in oil-shale fields.

    - And no. speculation is basically ways to force market flow by artificially bidding up prices. Nothing to do with “free market” flow, but its telling you would choose to mis-characterize it as such.

  298. “you want to micromanage our souls.”

    - Mighty goodness nishi. I thought you didn’t believe in such mystical mumbo jumbo.

  299. Sdferr – the markets have always been regulated. Always. A totally free market would be chaos. Who would adhere to a contract if, at the lowest level, courts could not enforce contracts? That is a market regulation. The US Steamboat Inspection Service was instituted in the mid-nineteenth century to address the disasters* that had happened on lakes, rivers, and in coastal waters. How much regulation is necessary? Ah, that is the rub, the question.

    *The Sultana had a boiler explosion and fire. She was carrying repatriated Union prisoners back home. The Griffith burned on Lake Erie taking many immigrants to their deaths. The Eastland capsized at dock in the Chicago River, drowning hundreds – and the life jackets were locked! into their storage chests. Some regulation is a good thing to prevent problems or tragedy. How much regulation, how much expectation, is the question.

  300. I have nothing against Mich. in the least, Mikey. I wondered the same things about Philadelphia, where I have lived, as I wonder about Michigan, where I have not. Philly was once the manufacturing center to the world. It appears to me, in the broad brush, that union labor and big corporations bargained themselves into a corner from which they could not escape. There came a time when they needed to be able to lithely compete and found they couldn’t, killing the goose that laid the golden egg. The city and state may have played a role in this, I don’t know, though I’d guess they did, as politicians always have their metaphorical hands out for a payoff, but certain it is that once the economic hard times had come, the city didn’t have a clue about what to do to fix the problem. They had lots of clues about how to make it worse, and that is just what they did. Shrinking taxbase? Raise taxes! Oh, wait, our taxbase is shrinking further still. Ok, let’s raise taxes, that’ll square us up! Oops, that didn’t work either. After twenty rounds of this sort of thing, maybe they’ll get the message. By then though, it may simply be too late.

  301. What about your desire to impose judeoxian morality on us?

    Uh, who are you talking to? I’ve not heard anyone here express that desire.

    Your desire to only fund research or social programs that conform to ur religious ethos?

    Personally, I’d rather my tax money didn’t go to ANY research. I can perfectly understand why people would be unwilling to see the money coerced from them under threat of imprisonment go to something they see as immoral. Hell, you ever heard of Thoreau?

    Your desire to have creationism in the guise of IDT taught in science class?

    You’re arguing with the phantoms again, nishi. Haven’t we told you to stop sniffing glue?

  302. I wrote, ‘…in enforcible contracts…’ for a reason. I do not believe in anarchy (though it is worth thinking about under the tutelage of R. Nozick), but neither will I buy into BBH’s professed view of the NYMEX. It sounds to ‘boogiemanish’ to me, to scapegoaty, if you will. Dick Durbin, I say again, is an ass.

  303. What about your desire to impose judeoxian morality on us?

    Yeah, that whole “endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights” thing is so 18th century. It’s older than McCain, even!!!! Much better some multi-culti head hacking, prayer rooms, foot baths and sex-segregated excercise rooms in schools, etc.

  304. Future imbibition is about Mikey’s people coming to town and ‘what could go wrong?’

  305. Sdferr – I didn’t think you were anti-Mich. Michigan is in the same place as a lot of other twentieth century industrial areas with all the government, unions, brown fileds, etc. that go with that. The inability to move with reality when it turns sour was a big thing for unions, management, and government. I just wanted to touch on one factor, that of the budget problems.

  306. - BTW Sdferr, when I use the term “speculater”, I’m not just referring the NYMEX futures traders. Much of the oil futures pricing is being driven up by people like the airlines, users, or oil distributors/storage companies themselves who see the wildly fluctuating prices, mostly upwards, and are trying to protect themselves. Unfortunately, that too has an unrealistic effect on prices.

    - It really doesn’t take Draconian measures. Usually the regulations are fairly minimal, focused on simply limiting certain practices.

  307. #
    Comment by alppuccino on 6/17 @ 4:25 pm #

    I second happyfeet’s “Obama is an idiot” proposal and as my supporting evidence I submit that Barry had Al Gore on stage flinging a big hunk of Katrina poo while Iowa and the contiguous remain under a torrent with nary a peep.

    And that is not the thor I know.

    I like Barack Obama. That alone makes for a tough life on PW. I don’t particularly care for every person who likes Obama, so at least I have that going for me.

  308. Speculators speculate based on what they think is likely to happen. The short supply and long demand leads them to think that the price is likely to continue to rise.

    If we were to start tapping our reserves the way God intended, the speculators could likely speculate that the increase in supply will lower the price.

    Just sayin’

  309. Mikey, you got peeps in Colombia? I was there in the mid-eighties. Where they from?

  310. #306 – they are so much fun! And yes, alcohol will be involved. The Colombians mostly do not speak English but are fun company. The Canadians speak English (Canadian – yes, they do say ‘eh’) and are fun loving. The Michigan contingent are fun-loving. This will be great!

    In a ‘I do not know any of these people officer.’ ‘Mikey!’ ‘Hush, you! I’ll take care of this!’ way of great.

    If only homeowner’s insurance would cover hotel rooms….

  311. #311 dicentra:

    They are my little brother’s in-laws, from Cali and Bogota. He’s US Army and was down there, where he met his wife. The eldest was baptised there, the second is being baptised here, in Dearborn at Divine Child (the godfather is an old friend a parishoner). The Godly stuff happens on the 29th; the ungodly stuff will happen on the 27th and 28th.

    It will be fun. Then comes the July Fourth weekend at mom and dad’s. Sometime after that I will crawl back out of the bottle.

  312. Imagine a jollified Don Cherry running into jovial Colombians.

    And the world wobbles.

  313. nishit is a fucking imbecile. It has trotted out meme #3-7 in one thread.

    Mikey – Outside of the county I reside in, MI has one of the best collection of golf courses in the Midwest.

  314. Dicentra you rock it. I am going to stop being so defensive. I always feel this need to defend even the people who are left of me. Because I grew up in an environment where all manner of leftist kookery flourished, and I really love and cherish my friends, their parents (who were true blue moonbats in the purest sense of the word) and even a few of my family members (the majority of my family are military, nurses or doctors, certified public accountants, and the odd bloodsucking lawyer – all sensible and very centrist…with a few retired rail road people – but there is one “transgendered” color therapist and another militant bitch who works for Willie Brown). I always want to make people understand that these people are not mean or hateful and they are good Americans. Yeah they think wasting tax money on a sanctuary for beetles or a bridge for frogs to cross the I-5 is a good idea…but they are still awesome.

    Anyhoo, you all are fantastic, even Rob who is totally sick of my ass.

  315. Oh and I forgot about Melvin and Jackie in Chicago…the former TUCC folks. They are always wearing dashikis and shit and they named one of their kids after some African dude and the other after Langston Hughes. They are annoying with their Kwanzaa celebrations and stuff (who the hell actually puts stalks of wheat out and greets merry Christmases with “happy Ujamaa”!?), but I love them too.

  316. One thing I don’t understand.

    May 14th John Edwards, in Grand Rapids Michigan, endorses Obama.

    June 16th Al Gore,in Flint Michigan, endorses Obama.

    Why in Michigan?

    And who will do the next one on July 18th in maybe Lansing or Detroit.

  317. Chamomile tea, potpourri and Chimpy McKatrinaburton is a fucking idiot! Happy Festivus!

  318. Pingback: The Undistinguished Gentleman « Internet Scofflaw

  319. #297 Mikey NTH
    “And yet, it is a beautiful state, with good people who do work hard. And I love her. She is home.”

    Seconded, with all my heart.

  320. geoffb – Chavez in East Lansing, Ahmadinnerjacket in Kalamazoo, and Fidel in Detroit.

  321. geoffb – I think it is for (a) the Michigan ‘non-delegates disenfranchising thing’; and (b) Michigan has a large black voter population. (b) is a core of Sen. Obama’s base vote, so (a) has to be neutralized fast – it is mid June and there is not much time to secure the big passle of electoral votes that Michigan has.

    There may also be worry that Sen. McCain can make Michigan a battleground state, have it go for him in the general election. A telling point, I think.

  322. Pingback: Stone Dead Parrot » Obama’s thin record…

  323. JD – I don’t golf, but I know the courses are good.

    (Once at a driving range near Gaylord I hit a turkey. No seroiusly – a flock of turkeys were on the range and I hit one – man, did it jump!)

  324. Lisa – What in the hell is a teanstesticled color therapist?

  325. I nailed a deer in Austin.

  326. #317 – Lisa:

    Crazy relatives are the cross we all bear. Trust me on that.
    I just stay polite and everything.

  327. thor nailed a Vick in the sphincter too.

    Better Half hit, and killed, a Candian goose with a 3-wood. It was her best shot ever.

  328. #330: Why did I KNOW that was coming. I just kept hitting refresh until I got my reward.

    Laughs hard.

  329. Lisa: Colors need therapy?

    (no, I’m not actually that stupid)

    The fact that you seem to have a dislike for Willie Brown and understand the inanity of Kwanzaa, however, has knocked you up two rungs on my own personal ladder.

    So to speak.

  330. I understand but the cities they picked, GR is heavily Republican and Flint doesn’t seem like a fit for Gore’s AGW message. Lansing, Ann Arbor, Detroit or Kalamazoo look more favorable to me anyways.

  331. #328 – thor:

    How much damage to the vehicle?
    A few years back a deer hit my brother’s jeep. No kidding, the deer hit the passenger side door while we were on US 127. The only damage was some fur and snot along the side of his jeep, and we stopped and looked – the deer was gone.

    Michigan is lousy with deer, I’ve seen them – heard them – run across the street. The hurrying hoof-beats ain’t Paul Revere.

  332. Without seven years of Bush and six years of the GOP Congress, Obama would not be possible. Its hard to imagine the appearance of the Messiah after Reagan, Bush 41 or Clinton.

  333. Is sad. Wants to build a sanctuary for all the animals you guys hunt. With your tax money.

  334. Vick runs faster than a golfball off the teebox, silly goose.

  335. Lisa – How did you know that Better Half pured a 3-wood ONE time in her entire life, and that it hit a shit producing Canadian honker right in the neck, dropping it where it once stood, defiantly?

  336. geoff – GR is a big city and makes for nice, controlled shots – the downtown is in good shape. And you can always get a good crowd for a candidate. Flint – um, damn, beats me other than going on population (union and black – your problems are due to outsourcing, etc.)

    K-zoo confuses me. What about K-zoo is conducive to any of that?

  337. thor’s lover Vick’s gerbil cave has likely taken a beating the last year or so.

  338. Occasionally we get to play aim for the alligator here in So. Flo.. They pop their jaw open and make a hissing sound when you hit ‘em.

  339. I didn’t hunt the darn thing, Lisa! I actually got the ball off ht eground, into the air (a rarity) and hit the bird! I couldn’t have planned that if I had a golf lessons over fifty years.

    My golf style is known as ‘worms – and other living creatures within fifty yards – fear me’.

  340. I like Barack Obama. That alone makes for a tough life on PW.

    Obama can be likable enough. You know who else is likable? Otis on The Andy Griffith Show

    Goddam lovable if you get right down to it.

  341. Hey Mikey, I was in Cali for a few months in ’85. Hot and humid, dusty, and ringed by some of the most depressing slums you’ll ever see (think Brazilian favelas). I preferred Popayán 3 hours south, which was a miniature version of Cali only not as hot and much cleaner.

    I was only in the airport in Bogotá, but I knew lots of folks from thereabouts. Place is like Seattle, weather-wise. Who knew? But at 8000 ft high, that’s how it goes.

    Lisa:

    You gots Chiroptera lunaria in your family, I gots John Birchers. I mean, I’m from Utah; they’re everywhere. I read None Dare Call It Conspiracy as a teen and it scared the bejeebers out of me until my mom talked me down. It’s been unnerving to see the Bircher stuff coming from the Left lately.

    I was just at a campground/hot springs in Idaho, and the proprietors had New American mags lying around (don’t get GPS! the gubmint can track you!) and Ron Paul pamphlets.

    They’re nuts but mostly harmless. It’s those yahoos in congress that we’ve got to keep an eye on.

  342. 254 Carin – “Detroit bartender for years and years I was …”

    What bars? In law school (1993-1996) we liked Old Shillelagh’s, and there was BC’s. O’Halloran’s Tipperary Pub was also visited by yours truly in the 1993-1999 time.

    Well, I began my bar career at Nemos on Michigan Ave (day shift, lunches) and during college I worked at the River Rock – that would be 87-88 ish when the Grand Prix used to still run in the city streets. After College, when I moved back to “The D” in the 90′s – I bartended at Fishbones right on Monroe – we used to do after hours at the Old Shillelagh – LOL. All the bartenders there knew us, and would keep the back room open until 4 am or whenever the bartender there got too plastered to serve us. LOL.

  343. #338: Ha. I picture her looking really cool and lovely like in some old Kate Hepburn movie – all classy with awesome boots and hunting jacket. Then you standing beside her drinking beer and farting, gun over your shoulder….

    You know I was waiting for SOMEONE to pick up on thor’s use of the word “nailing” in conjunction with an animal…I assumed that it would be you or BBH who would be unable to resist.

  344. Well done, excellent piece. More, please.

  345. #344: Ha ha ha!! Wow!

  346. Kalamazoo is very liberal. WMU influences it like MSU and U of M do their surroundings. “United for Peace and Justice” signs all over. It is the dot of blue in the sea of red in SW Michigan.

  347. Hope they don’t have cell-phones, dicentra, because they are all to have the 9-1-1 chip in them so that if you dial that, they can find you via GPS (beats having a guy pass out with an open phone on the Lodge and the 9-1-1 operator listening for the state police car’s siren to let the officer know he is close).

    It all comes down to – do you think municipal/state/federal government is all evil, or do you think that the vast bulk aren’t? I am in the USCGAux, which makes me a part of the Dept. of Homeland Security. And volunteer AuxAir has found many distressed boaters and ice-fishermen and vectored air and surface assests to the rescue.

    Not saying you are saying this dicentra, but all of us in DHS – regular, reserve,and volunteer – aren’t evil.

    No organization in the US government is a Stasi; and thank bloody God for that!*

    *Think of East Germany – the DDR – as Nazi Germany given another fifty years to live. The same people, the same tactics (damn near the same uniforms), and damn near the same ideology.

    *SHUDDER*

  348. #345 – Carin.

    I did know the River Rock, and Fishbones (the judge liked that for Christmas staff luncheons). Of course the ‘Wonderful World of the Murph’ was just off of Greek Town. One place the courtroom staff would go (after the docket was done on Friday) was the old Music Menu to play some pool (circa 1998-2001).

    NBD for me, I parked at the Opera House Garage on Broadway, but I am a big guy so I could walk that without problem after dark. At that time I was able to run 30 miles a week and still weighed in at 180 – big heavy built guy does not get fooked with.

  349. [QUOTE] Comment by Slartibartfast on 6/17 @ 9:47 am #

    I think everyone ought to have this playing in the background, while considering this thread.[QUOTE]

    Living Color’s, Cult of Personality is getting referred to increasingly often in connection with Obama. The lyrics could have been written about the 2008 Obama campaign.

  350. #349 – Ah, I forgot WMU.

  351. as the old Music Menu to play some pool (circa 1998-2001).

    I had a friend that worked there . Fishbones was kinda cool because all the celebrities would go there and/or stay at the attached hotel. That assclown Jeffery Feiger used to show up – I served him once at the Oyster bar.

  352. #352: That is a good song.

  353. 334
    Depending on the size of the vehicle there’s a very real chance of getting killed. My friends S1 PU was totaled when she hit a deer at 45mph. The whole front end was crushed and the deer nearly went through the windshield.

  354. “That assclown Jeffery Feiger used to show up “

    Unfortunately for me it’s spelled Geoffrey Fieger. I go most of my life the only one around spelled like that then he shows up.

    I don’t know Detroit as the only place I ever went to there was the Grande Ballroom back in the late 60s when I was in my college hippie daze.

  355. Pingback: Bad Denver, Bogarting Bills and Benjamins, Some Poll Trends : NO QUARTER

  356. Pingback: Hot Air » Blog Archive » Quotes of the day

  357. We would have a lot less uninsured in these parts if the illegals would go back to Mexico.

  358. Lisa @ 346 – I think her golf outfits cost more than all of my clubs. She was totally nonplussed. Said the damn bird should have got out of her way. That was back in my drinking days, wasted a perfectly good ice cold Coors Light laughing.

  359. Canada goose is some damn fine eating so I hope you plucked and charred that bird.

  360. Also @ 346 – Low hanging fruit, and all. Actually, thor just threw a hanging curveball. I could not resist.

  361. Pingback: Why Obama is going to Lose « The Political Inquirer

  362. Pingback: Changeyness @ in medias res

  363. Living Colour – Cult Of Personality

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  365. hahaha, gratz, Karl!
    do u see why Jeff keeps me around now?
    ;)

    excellent post.

  366. Fresh Goldstein ^^^^
    ;)

  367. Pingback: Democrats versus Republicans - Page 234 - SailNet Community

  368. Thanks for your insights!

  369. Living Colour – Cult Of Personality

    yay! tunes!
    i can play that on Guitar Hero III, Karl.

    Karl, i have a question for u, since im ur designated evilmuse tonite.
    Could Hitler happen today, in modern society?

  370. It’s as if he doesn’t really care about change at all and just wants to get elected President.

  371. Wow! You quote Jonah Lucianne to prove that Obama’s qualifications don’t quite measure up. That’s some evidence!

    Britney Spears says that your a whore.

  372. I fell in love with the Cowboy W, you know, “Wanted Dead or Alive.”

    And Lisa, when you talk to your Mom, do you have the same potty mouth, or do you only run it in public? Got news for you, “sweetie,” it isn’t cool.

  373. 251: Lisa reminds me of what P.J. O’Rourke once said about Michael Kinsley: “the thing he likes best about liberalism is being accused of it.” :)

    I am pre-denounced.

    When it comes to severing friendships over politics, the left does it much more than the right. An NYT article said so.

    I have liberal friends that I’m beginning to suspect only maintain relations with me so that they have a Republican they can yell at.

  374. Pingback: Fortinbras :: Barack Obama: The Undistinguished Gentleman [Karl] :: June :: 2008

  375. Listen to Obama speak on any policy, especially when faced with a question from anyone—politician, town hall attendee—and, even when he’s reading from his notes or prompter, his responses are those of a readied (or often unreadied) college sophomore. He’s got the same superficial grasp, as if he just got some idea from a class, the same dorm bull session thinking, and the occasional plausible but truly uninformed answers.

    His gaffe, now policy, on direct diplomacy with heads of enemy states and his recent statement about why the Boumediene decision is correct–viz, “we used a criminal law strategy in the ’90s, and we captured and incapacitated the terrorists who bombed the WTC in ’93, so it obviously is superior and effective”–both show this. His knowledge is of the most general, unthoughtful kind, and from it he infers policy beliefs that are shallow and obviously simplistic and never thought through.

    (Boumediene: He literally doesn’t know what he’s talking about. What he said shows that he has only the most headline-based knowledge of the matter. He doesn’t know that while, yes, several conspirators were apprehended, tried, convicted, and imprisoned, several more weren’t–and one who wasn’t went on to plan the 2001 WTC attacks. He also doesn’t know, apparently, that Rahman [the "blind sheikh"] was NOT “incapacitated” by being imprisoned, but went on directing his organization across the world by using his lawyer, radical Lynn Stewart, to communicate from his Minnesota prison to his organization in New York and thence outside the US. He literally has no clue about how the planners and executors of the WTC bombing of ’93 are connected to the rest of the Islamist terrorist attacks of the Clinton years and the Sept. 11 attacks.)

    The guy’s a sophomoric tyro and a real danger to the US and even to the world.

  376. #375: Your uber-judgy and catty disapproval is duly noted, sugartits.
    #376: That is a great quote.

  377. It was easy not to vote for Gore and Kerry, neither were a solid choice compared to Bush. It will be even more justifiable not to vote for Obama because he lacks even the rudimentary qualifications of a President. In retrospect, Obama actually makes Gore look credible. Kerry on the other hand was and always will be an embarrassment to the nation. Oddly enough, Obama’s experience or lack of makes Kerry’s lack of accomplishment look stellar.

    So now we have Obama, a political enigma preaching demagoguery to legions of robotic Bush haters. I get the impression from the Democrats that the objective of picking a candidate is selecting someone who is the worst possible choice for the nation.

    How many more times will we have to dodge these bullets?

  378. Pingback: Left, Right and Centered » For The Record

  379. …by putting together a coalition of Hart and Jackson voters…

    I had to read that several times. Why would a Scoop Jackson Democrat want to back Obama. Oh, Jesse Jackson!

    And dicentra, the reason that an MBA couldn’t run a hot dog stand is because they are being taught to make money, not hot dogs!

  380. Sorry, everyone, I was busy all last night micromanaging souls. What did I miss?

  381. Pingback: New Paltz Journal » Blog Archive » Note to The New York Times: Don’t put that lipstick away

  382. Comment by Karl on 6/17 @ 10:05 pm #

    Living Colour – Cult Of Personality

    Somebody took the obvious next step.

  383. And this video’s even better.

    Looks like David Axelrod dusted off some Deval Patrick speeches for Obama to read word for word as his own.

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  386. Also, re the WTC 1993 attacks, let’s remember taht all the legal/court action came AFTER the attack… one of the biggest problems with treating terror as a criminal matter is that you can’t do anything until after an illegal act has been committed. If you are very lucky and the terrorists are very sloppy you might be able to catch them on a conspiracy charge before they act, but if they have anything on teh ball, they will carry out their attack and then you will try to catch up… silly beyond words, something only an academic, a child, or Democrat (but, I repeat myself) could come up with.

  387. I love the fact that Republicans are now using the “anyone with a brain” speech they called the Democrats “elitists” for in ’04. Good luck with that one guys. Your “considered” positions and “enlightened” philosophy have driven this country into the ditch; a fact that is painfully obvious to the entire country every time they fill up the tank.

    You might think Sen. Obama doesn’t have the qualifications, but you can only blame yourselves for the electoral spanking you know is coming. The shameless pandering, the total incompetence and the deceitful warmongering of the last eight years have destroyed the Republican brand for decades to come.

  388. 391. Comment by Michael on 6/18 @ 11:29 am

    Gimme a break, people: I micromanage souls, not brains.

  389. Are you sticking us with Obama to teach us a lesson, Michael, or because you think another Jimmy Carter is just what this country needs?

    Because no offense, but I’ll look out for my own best interests, thanks. Which I think is a better strategy than handing that over to self-loathing elitists with no grasp of history and no end to socialist “do-over” attempts.

  390. Your “considered” positions and “enlightened” philosophy have driven this country into the ditch; a fact that is painfully obvious to the entire country every time they fill up the tank.

    At least the had the foresight to run us in a ditch next to a filling station.

  391. Barack Obama is the Andy Warhol candidate for president. Fifteen minutes ago he was nobody, he doesn’t have a record to run on, and his resume is almost nonexistent. He’s got the right image though, and as Andy knew, image is everything.

  392. Pingback: The Presumptions of Obama - UPDATED | The Anchoress

  393. Michael: Who’s blocking drilling? Who’s blocking refinery construction? Who’s blocking nuclear reactor construction?

    Here’s a hint, it doesn’t start with an ‘R’.

    But then, you are following the Dem playbook – fuck up everything in sight and then, when you’re too shagged out to shag anymore, point fingers at everyone else while you recover your strength.

    Sorry, doesn’t work anymore, except in your dwindling echo chambers.

  394. Pingback: POLYSEMY Online: The Daily Goose

  395. Pingback: Remember, he’s a politician. Don’t lose your head. « BC in OC

  396. Obama’s period of commitment to the Iraq War also correlated with Tony Rezko’s involvement (through Nadhmi Auchi) in $150M project to build a power plant in Kurdistan. Part of the package was to provide security for the project with Iraqis who would be trained in Illinois. When the power plant project collapsed, so did Obama’s interest in fighting in Iraq.

  397. Pingback: Barry O plays the race card, nurses his grudges [Karl]

  398. Pingback: Barack Obama: The Undistinguished Gentleman’s housing policy [Karl]

  399. Pingback: Filp-Flop for Change? Yes, we can! [Karl]

  400. Pingback: The Lowry/Ponuru strategy for John McCain [Karl]

  401. Pingback: Obama the Unknown, Cohen the Uninformed [Karl]

  402. Pingback: Obama’s Chicago Way « Mr. Smith Goes Conservative Blogging

  403. Pingback: Patterico’s Pontifications » The Case Against Obama (Plus)

  404. will there be a parody of the Eddie Murphy movie poster?

  405. Pingback: skewred.com » McCain vs. Obama: Closing Argument

  406. I want to know where Obama was born? I have heard that his birth cert. he presented was not notorized and he was not born in the USA. Having said that I thought in order to run for President you had to be born in The USA….

  407. Pingback: Obama Cram Info « Mcnorman’s Weblog

  408. Pingback: Obama Cram Info Primer 101 « Mcnorman’s Weblog

  409. Pingback: The Greenroom » Forum Archive » Shocker: Timmy Geithner still a mess at Treasury

  410. Pingback: Patterico’s Pontifications » Shocker: Timmy Geithner still a mess at Treasury

  411. we dont know where he was born??? wtf ….. retirement plan

  412. Many wait from Obama immediate recovery and resolution of all problems they had through many years so far. It’s unfair. During a year in White House Obama has done a lot. Here’s a brief summary of major accomplishments of Barack Obama during his presidency:

    http://myhowtoos.com/en/red-hot/93-growing-list-of-barack-obama-accomplishments

  413. Pingback: “BARACK OBAMA: THE UNDISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN” – suzyrice.com

  414. Pingback: Patterico's Pontifications » What top Dems really think about Obama

  415. Pingback: The Greenroom » Forum Archive » What top Dems really think about Obama

  416. Pingback: What top Dems really think about Obama

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