Now that Barack Obama has severed ties with the Trinity United Church of Christ, his longtime spiritual adviser, the race-baiting, conspiracy-mongering Rev. Jeremiah Wright, has decided to keep his grip on The House That Wright Built:
Indeed, Trinity members familiar with the developments say that on May 27, Moss was summoned to the church’s massive brown sanctuary for a meeting that included Wright, several church board members and other senior leaders. According to those sources, Moss, 37, expected the meeting to finalize transition plans. Instead, Wright suggested the board merely declare Moss “senior pastor-elect” because the younger cleric needed “supervision”  effectively ensuring Wright remains Trinity’s preacher-in-chief. Wright’s essential argument hinges on a technicality: Moss is an ordained Baptist minister who has yet to be fully ordained in the United Church of Christ, the predominantly white protestant denomination of which the roughly 8,500-member Trinity is the largest congregation.
Ironically, this story is reported by TIME magazine’s Steven Gray, who just finished claiming that Trinity is a typical black church — totally in line with TIME’s Obama boosterism, but totally disconnected from reality.
Gray also quotes one Trinity member as saying the contoversy is splitting the church. Sounds like an opportunity for someone to engage in unconditional, tough diplomacy with a petty, power-mad hater.
(h/t Allahpundit.)
Also, Wright may have been inspired by Hillary Clinton’s “never-say-die” fortitutde.
“Comment by Karl on 6/4 @ 4:37 pm #
Also, Wright may have been inspired by Hillary Clinton’s “never-say-die†fortitutde.”
Or he wanted to stick it to O! because of the Gettysburg Address.
What happened to the “not deficient, just different” spiel?
The splits are going through the identity groups now, and not just between the different identity groups. Can the identity group of ‘me, you, and I’m not so sure about you’ be far behind?
Oh, yes. SPLITTERS!
“Wright’s essential argument hinges on a technicality: Moss is an ordained Baptist minister who has yet to be fully ordained in the United Church of Christ”
That’s somewhat more than a technicality and there is an additional component regarding TUCC’s departure from the UCC denomination’s pastoral search rules. Although the UCC is definitely a ‘social gospel’, ‘agent of change’ denomination, its rules of polity come straight out of the Calvinist tradition, with all appurtenant legalisms well attached. There has already been some squawking within the denomination concerning the Moss pick and part of this may have to do with the squawks.
IOW – it’s fine to hire another race baiter to replace Wright but hiring a Baptist race baiter is a bridge too far.
Nothing pre-planned about this. Nothing at all.
“….the United Church of Christ, the predominantly white protestant denomination of which the roughly 8,500-member Trinity is the largest congregation.
– A BLT group in a congregation thats “predominantly white”?
– What do we have going on here, a mob of “reverse” passers?
BBH – you have a vehicle that can be used, one that will not question what goes on inside the church or what is said from the pulpit. Like with Father Pfleger, if the governing authorities do not enforce the guidelines, then there are no guidelines. The UCC could have withdrawn their endorsement anytime but they didn’t, and because they didn’t have the stones to stand up to the PC – baiting, they now have to deal with this mess.
This election year has been wonderful with so many stones overturned, and so much let out into the light of day. Reminds me of the time I realized the Episcopal Church leadership had nothing to say to me other than accept my social guilt.
Mikey
Have you encountered actual news or evidence that someone(s) in the governing body of the UCC is actually displeased with the goings on at TUCC?
I think it’s a good idea. Imagine what poor judgment a youngster like that might display if left to his own devices.
It’s funny, that’s what it is.
Wright is pissed off because Axelrod had promised him a cabinet post if he toned it down, and he just found out there ain’t no Secretary of Kicking Whitey in the Nuts.
No, I haven’t Sdferr. I was extrapolating from my experiences with the Episcopal Church. I should have been more clear – my experiences living in the Detroit Metropolitan Area and belonging to an institution like the E.C. is that the church leadership is afraid to crack down on anyone like a Rev. Wright or a Fr. Pfleger. They don’t want the ruckus that would be caused. And my experiences as a camp counselor and a teacher (and my dad’s experiences as a teacher for over thirty years) is if you do not pull in these people early, you have the devil of a time doing so later.
My experience is that the leadership ignored this, and ignored this, and now that it has blown-up, they don’t know what to do, considering their years of coddling this*. Does the UCC advertise itself as supporting that kind of hate? Does the RCC? My guess is no.
Now what do they do now that the ‘crazy uncle’ is out of the attic and tossing molotov cocktails?
*I doubt that this is a new thing for TUCC or for St. Sabina. The UCC and the RCC knew and did nothing.
I went to the UCC website and found them making excuses for and praising TUCC and offering their prayers for the TUCC ministers and congregation as late as April 22. The latest press release bemoans with understanding compassion Barack Obama’s decision to leave the church but hopes he will remain with the UCC though they make no demands.
Sdferr,
The NYT noted negative UCC reactions. MikeyNTH has most of it – UCC was so giggly about that big ole church in Chicago that they ignored those funny noises coming out of it. UCC has the same set of schisms as the PCUSA or the Episcopalians or the Methodists. They all have huge termite nests and a lot of dry rot.
They (Baracky and Wright) prolly planned Wright’s resignation and Baracky throwing TUCC under the back of the bus around the time that Wright told him before the campaign that Baracky may have to distance himself.
Since Baracky’s experience is in organizing, orchestrating this should have been a breeze.
PCUSA is well on its way to nothingness. Many congregations are withering. My nominal one was standing-room-only 25 years ago. Now, it’s more than half empty on Sundays.
Thanks Rick. No sign of any dissent at the UCC website but then that is to be expected. Church politics is such a tricksy business. Pile on that the potential of a congregant stepping into the White House and I’d be treading very carefully too, I guess. Wouldn’t want to get ahead of events.
White people have now invented a disease that is even more deadly than AIDS and forces otherwise radical leftists to act like they never were a radical leftist, disowning and disavowing anyone that they normally would associate with. Other debilitating effects are that the patient will utter perfectly normal sane thoughts such as “Iran is no threat, it is a tiny country, I would be perfectly happy to meet with their leader”, then utter utterly insane thoughts such as, “We must always keep open the military option when dealing with Iran” It is a form of political Turrets syndrome. Rev. Wright knows Obama is just suffering from the disease, Presidentia, and forgives him his disability.
I’m imagining a conversation by Wright to Moss saying, are you crazy, what could have possessed you to invite Father Phfleger to mock Hillary? Do you have no sense allowing a hater like that to preach at my pulpit?
In other words, we could lose are tax exempt status, you’ve brought whitey media down on our heads, we’ve lost our benefactor Bambi. You need to be supervised.
The UCC would not have a problem ordaining a baptist minister. It happens all the time. Ministers get called to local churches, the association ordains them, end of story. The UCC is home for a lot of ministers from other denominations who get called to local churches.
Also, the Ucc would not withdraw its endorsement. The polity of the church allows for a lot of autonomy. The local church can do what it wants, hire and fire who it wants.
The national office is unlikely to get involved in this fight. the association in illinois might try to mediate, but this is a local fight that will split the church.
– I don’t think its just Hillery reacting to her dissing. Not by a long shot. I also think that Obama’s people are whistling past the cemetary when they blow of all the alienations, and anger, that his gaffs have created, and thats putting the best face on things, referring to them simply as gaffs.
– We’ve got 5+ long months to go in this process. If Obama doesn’t slow things way down, and stop the almost daily revelations, most any one of which would have stopped him already dead in his tracks if he wasn’t a Black dude, McCain will be running by himslf by September. O!’s been riding this wave of the youthful blind adoration thing, and his race, since the beginning, but most of that good will has been used up. In the coming weeks the electorate is going to see if hes an empty suit, and notice he talks a completely different song, depending which group hes in front of. If you saw him in SF you saw him as tha typical ideolog elitist Leftie, Socialist to the core. If you watched him today at AIPAC, you would have thought he was a young Ronald Reagan. Somethings got to collide when you’re moving that far left to right and back again, every time you step on a podium.
– My take is what I’ve said all along. This guys a street smart precinct level politician, and thats about it. Hes way in over his head.
Sara, keep in mind that Hatin’ Jerry’s first public appearance after the media blitz was in the arms of Pfleger at St. Sabina. They’re all joined at the hip.
If you saw him in SF you saw him as tha typical ideolog elitist Leftie, Socialist to the core. If you watched him today at AIPAC, you would have thought he was a young Ronald Reagan. Somethings got to collide when you’re moving that far left to right and back again, every time you step on a podium.
seriously. I can’t wait for the youtoobs of obama contradicting himself on, oh, every issue he’s addressed. apparently he thinks he can please all the people all the time. soon he’ll be trying to pick his friends’ noses.
Anyone who goes to Church is a whuss, Amen.
Don’t make me tase you, morons.
BBH:
This guys a street smart precinct level politician, and thats about it. Hes way in over his head.
I agree now. He seemed a bigger threat when he and Hillary were battling, but as he is pitted against a stark alternative like McCain, I just think he’s toast. Hillary couldn’t afford the nuclear option with any one of O’s gaffes, but McCain and Republicans in general can and will.
Ohnoes! There’s a new Gaffe Sheriff in town!
O!
I was under the immpression that one couldn’t be more Calvinistic than a Freewill Baptist might be, with those liberal Missionary Baptists running a close second. I’ve also begun to believe that teh UCC is not Calvinistic.
If that congregation is splintering, that will be fun to watch. In “The Sects of America” tales of protestant denomination fission abound. The most extreme example of such was a small Baptist congregation that split beginnning with the Freewill-Missionary debate and then a few more times over things like forward immersion vs. backward immersion, minister choice, etc., until one of the congregations had just two members.
When a church has multiple popes, it tends to slpit into ever-smaller domains.
thor, thor, thor.
I admire your resolve. Hang in there, it’s gonna be a bumpy ride for the next five months.
Ya zniyo.
As an african american who goes to trinity i find it so interesting that lack of tolerance of gays, different religions (islam), and calling for political assassinations from our mainstream pulpits have not gotten NEARLY the same PUBLIC criticism as the pastor of my church who states the obvious. that racism is very real in america… that the country is run by rich white people … that the united states experienced blowback on 9/11 due to it’s own foreign policy (a sentiment expressed by SEVERAL military and intelligence officials within our government)
I really find it interesting the lack of critical thinking that goes on in general….
that yes there may be some technicalities with this transition of power in the church. These people have probably gone through the biggest trial of their lives both wright and moss and people expect for them to act like everythings normal…
Being demonized by the american media because of a belief is something to go through as an american citizen. You all should be concerned because these men expressed no desire for violence, separation, OR REVENGE and run a very inclusive congregation. Yet now the world has defined these men and our church based on 30 second sound bites and hearing an opinion a NON THREATENING opinion they don’t agree with. Why do you think that the UCC is so supportive of the ministry of trinity united church of christ??? It’s because bus loads of UCC members have visited on a regular basis. It’s because they know that there are white members who are willing to travel outside of their own neighborhoods to worship in a predominately black church in a predominately black neighborhood. Maybe it’s because of the WHITE politicians from both parties that have come to the church to give their message to this particular constituency.
One things for sure… I know that truth doesn’t matter in situations like these. The only thing that matters is perception and I’m sure it didn’t take much to shape the perception of many people commenting on this board