Ta-Nehesi Coates has a piece on Bill Cosby up at The Atlantic that is worth a read, though his own opinions might be getting in the way of his understanding of Cosby. For example, Coates is perplexed by Cosby’s attitude regarding Barack Obama:
The strain of black conservatism that Cosby evokes has also surfaced in the presidential campaign of Barack Obama. Early on, some commentators speculated that Obama’s Cosby-esque appeals to personal responsibility would cost him black votes. But if his admonishments for black kids to turn off the PlayStation and for black fathers to do their jobs did him any damage, it was not reflected at the polls. In fact, this sort of rhetoric amounts to something of a racial double play, allowing Obama and Cosby to cater both to culturally conservative blacks and to whites who are convinced that black America is a bastion of decadence. (Curiously, Cosby is noncommittal verging on prickly when it comes to Obama. When Larry King asked him whether he supported Obama, he bristled: “Do you ask white people this question? … I want to know why this fellow especially is brought up in such a special way. How many Americans in the media really take him seriously, or do they look at him like some prize brown baby?†The exchange ended with Cosby professing admiration for Dennis Kucinich. Months later, he rebuffed my requests for his views on Obama’s candidacy.)
Coates might get a clue as to Cosby’s response by revisiting a part of Cosby’s famous “Pound Cake speech” Coates quotes in the story:
Then he attacked African American naming traditions, and the style of dress among young blacks; “Ladies and gentlemen, listen to these people. They are showing you what’s wrong … What part of Africa did this come from? We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans. They don’t know a damned thing about Africa with names like Shaniqua, Shaligua, Mohammed, and all that crap, and all of them are in jail.”
Coates might want to hypothesize what Cosby thinks of Obama’s decades-long membership in the Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago:
Africentrism (that’s the term Trinity prefers to Afrocentrism) is wholeheartedly embraced at Trinity. One of the church’s mottos is “Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian.” Its choir is regularly decked out in brightly colored African dress, as is Wright when he preaches. The church emphasizes its connection to the African diaspora: it sponsors trips to western and southern Africa, the Caribbean, and Latin American countries with significant African populations. Julia Speller, a leader at Trinity and author of Walkin‘ the Talk: Keepin‘ the Faith in Africentric Congregations, notes in her book that the church offers courses in Swahili and that its youth programs, Intonjane and Isuthu, take their names from Swahili words for coming into manhood and womanhood. The congregation celebrates the Kwanzaa holiday and Umoja Karamu, a Thanksgiving Day service that narrates the story of the black family from its West African origins to today with dancing, drumming and storytelling.
For that matter, the election of Barack Obama would represent a culmination of the W.E.B. Du Bois model of blacks advancing themselves primarily through voting and running for office.  Coates recognizes that Cosby follows more in the tradition of Booker T. Washington, yet fails to consider that Cosby might not think that electing a black president will solve the problems he sees in the black community.
(h/t Memeorandum. Further thoughts at The Other McCain.)
Update: HotAir-lanche!
Cosby is secure in his own identity. Barry, not so much
The thing is, for far too many blacks, the color of someone’s skin matters more than their rhetoric… or at least they’re willing to look past a lot simply because they are black. Take a friend of mine who initially supported Obama because of the hue of his skin, which gave him mysterious insight into how America was for blacks and would take that understanding to Washington for real change. What, exactly, that entailed, he was unable to explain. As he learned more about the man’s policies he became disenchanted, but initially he was all for the guy simply because of his ethnicity. There’s a lot of that going on out there, in a very sad way. I’d hate to think of any white people who’d vote for a guy because of how pale he was and he’d bring this whiteness to the oval office.
Bill Cosby is more liberal than Barack Obama, my friend. He makes Obama look like Grover Fucking Norquist. I have been paying very close attention to Bill Cosby for a very long time. He is fantastic. And just because he pissed a few people off by taking some African Americans to task for being idiots, it does not make him Clarence Thomas.
I just want to clarify something – no snark here: It appears that you are kind of implying that W. E. B. Dubois urgings to vote and run for office is less important than Booker T. Washington’s endeavors to cultivate a black intellectual class. I don’t think these philosophies are mutually exclusive – each was profoundly important for blacks after the Civil War. I also think Obama is a product of both legacies.
Lisa
Obama was raised first by a white mom who, according to her friends, never dated or even wanted to associate with white males. He was abandoned by his black father and further raised by his white grandparents in a very “privileged” white culture of Hawaii. He ultimately rejected his white girlfriend because of her race.
IMO Barry is not as comfortable in his skin as, say, Tiger Woods.
#2: Yes, there are a lot of people that are voting for Obama because he is black. But they are not overlooking his qualifications. They realize his vision for America is exactly the same as Hillary Clinton’s vision. Since they are so similar, why not vote for the black guy. Believe me, if he were a kook like Jesse Jackson or Alan Keyes, Hillary would be the nominee. Remember, Obama did not just show his black face and win votes. He had to woo his voters just like everyone else. White people were digging Obama WAY before he won over any black people.
Darleen: If that is true then he probably does have some issues. I am sure that I have less issues than Obama. Both my parents are black. I never had any identity crisis. By all accounts, it is difficult growing up mixed race in a culture where black is considered creepy and a white who would lay down with a black is considered a whore (or a communist).
By all accounts, it is difficult growing up mixed race in a culture where black is considered creepy and a white who would lay down with a black is considered a whore (or a communist).
I don’t think that attitude is as common as you think.
The problem with Obama is he has but a veneer of non-kook. Not only is he connected with kooks by his own choice.
He’s like a failed batch of macarons. Lovely shell indeed, but scratch Obama, find a dissapointing, sticky middle and air pockets.
Creepy is as creepy does. I grew up in a community with leftover separation of the races issues that shaped our communities and schools. But whatever fights adults had over busing, I never recall any sense of my own that black students were inherently creepy, or perceived to be so by other children. There was this one sexually precocious kid in the 6th grade who was always licking his lips and moaning around girls. He would throw pieces of paper on the ground and ask me to pick them up. He wrote personal remarks in my yearbook…”the Sensual Brain” I think is what is was. I remember thinking he was creepy.
If “culturally conservative” people believe that kids should turn off their Play Station and fathers should do their jobs, this very conveniently and aptly defines “culturally liberal” people as parasites and Parasites hoping to manage both parasites and their hosts.
Furthermore, at base, I don’t see what is “cultural” about it. Instead the more scientific question is, “How can a society – or Humanity in general – survive once the parasites completely control the host?” The obvious answer is that it can’t, unless the Oppressor-Slave model of success – which the Faux Liberals/Progressives decry and claim to oppose – works, which it doesn’t, as generously proven by Progressives/Communists themselves.
It doesn’t surprise me anymore that the Faux Liberal/Progressive Religion doesn’t pay any heed at all to the workings of Evolution while claiming to “believe in it”, even to the extent of denying it exists as a force of Nature, or at least that it – just conveniently – doesn’t apply in their case.
People such as Coates and Larry King try to pigeon hole Bill Cosby by way of their subrational, pre-Enlightenment “cultural”, identity group schema – which seems to see, by projection, everyone as inherent beggars and scavengers – while being completely unable to understand that Cosby is instead talking about the fact that parasitism as a tactic doesn’t work very well toward either individual well-being or societal/Human survival and that, instead, “personal responsibility” is what our survival depends on, not parasitism upon it. Individual health depends upon it.
In other words, imo, Cosby is simply speaking as a rational human.
And I don’t think I or my peers later on had any qualms about interracial dating. Except for me, once I did look askance at a young woman with serial relationships with black males. Because, for lack of any other way I can think to say it, she seemed to be doing it on purpose. To shock, to be a rebel; to be a show-off. Not that she did shock, but she sought out black male companionship exclusively, sort of like Obama’s mom, and sort of looked around to notice the reaction. Hard to articulate. I thought she was not so much a whore but a user, or had “some issues.”
Lisa – What qualifications of Baracky are overlooked. Outside of the “qualifications” listed in the Constitution, I have yet to see any actual experience or track record. All I see is a person good at reading someone else’s words on a teleprompter.
There’s absolutely nothing “special” about BHO’s parents. His mother wasn’t a whore, she was a run of the mill lefty who considered kids to be “disposable” – free range raise ’em and turn ’em over to any sucker in the family dumb enough to feed ’em. The situation was (and is) as common as dirt, arguably less so in 1961 but we’ve “pregressed” since then, haven’t we?
I do agree that Obama and Clinton rest comfortably in a Dubois seed pod. They are as dedicated to theft through the instrument of the ballot box as he ever was.
“I have yet to see any actual experience or track record.”
Community Organizers get no respect.
We may not agree with Bill Cosby on policy preferences/positions. We do agree on the subject of personal responsibility. It isn’t unusual that I could disagree with another on some things and agree on other things. I do that all the time, with lots of people, and I think it is normal behavior.
Not those pods again. Spores and pods. :/
Obama’s mom was to my view a bit flighty and foolish and selfish. I wonder if her attachments were more about self-flattery than anything else. I suppose I might change my mind with evidence to the contrary.
I think Obama has a Spock/Elrond thing going on. Remember how those two handled their mixed race heritage? By picking one, then going all out to prove that they could be Elfier/more Vulcan than thou.
Woods seems to be perfectly comfortable with his identity, perhaps because he wasn’t raised by self-hating white liberals.
Just a theory.
Rick Ballard – Hillary seems to me more likely to temper her rhetoric AND her actions to a middle path.
Spies – If Tiger referred to himself as post-racial, I would buy that. Cablanasians rock.
Baracky? Not so much.
If blacks can vote for Obama simply because he is black, can I vote for McCain simply because he is white?
Or will I be flagged as a racist?
TLD (the world’s first self proclaimed “Jerkist”)
Defined…
Jerkism (jerk-ism – noun) – The affliction of not seeing race, gender, sexual proclivites, etc (ad infinitum), but instead, being acutely aware of people who make up their own reality, and have trouble tying their own shoes, regardless of “-ism”.
TLD – to the Dems, proggs, and left libs, you are a racist no matter what.
#23: So much for that ‘content of character’ thing.
It did have a nice run, though.
“TLD – to the Dems, proggs, and left libs, you are a racist no matter what.”
Probably a fascist too.
Mikey – No shit. If the Dems had any brains, they could routinely mop the floor with the Republicans. They could just lean on some of the concepts spoken in the past – content of character, bear any burden, pay any price. Fortunately, even Se. Anvilhead thinks JFK’s policies were horrible, imperialistic, and racist And I suspect that MLK would not recognize his teachings, so bastardized they have become.
SarahW,
Isn’t “seems” the operator in the construct? She has moderated her methods, to be sure. Handing the opposition a huge club with which to bludgeon your own party into minority status would tend to be a moderating influence upon anyone. Sixteen years later, she’s still at it though – bread and circuses for the nonproductive paid for by the productive is the heart of both hers and BHO’s Robin Hood philosophy.
Is a sneak thief more moderate than a brazen thief? I would argue that a sneak thief is capable of stealing more before being caught and is therefore potentially more damaging.
JD – That would mean calling Americans to strive for the best in American character without concern for class, wealth, race, gender, ethnicity, or country of birth. Americans like being called on a crusade, they like being called to be more noble, to raise themselves above petty interests and willingly serve for a greater good, to make a Shining City on a Hill, with brotherhood for all. That call has gone out time and again and Americans respond to that.
However, that would mean abandoning identity politics, so ‘no go’.
I heard Obama – when he was in the process of disowning Rev. Wright – say that what Wright preached did not reflect the values he (Obama) was raised with. Which got me to thinking….What values are those? Bigamy and abandonment?
@ #9
Sarah,
You and thor went to grade school together?
JD pretty well nails it insofar as Baracky’s qualifications or lack of same. He has none, unless you count being a flaming Marxist a qualification for president.
And unfortunately we are not going to see “identity politics” go away any time soon. Human nature being what it is, there are groups (and yes, that includes a large percentage of black Americans) who will use this, and the mantra (which was repeated over and over in the article about Cosby) “white racism” to excuse what otherwise would be unacceptable behavior.
I’ve been a fan of Bill Cosby’s since I was a kid. I admit that he drops a bit in my estimation if he actually has any regard for the likes of Dennis Kucinich (who makes nishi look like an intellectual giant by comparison), but he’s dead on about what black America needs to do to clean up it’s collective act (as described in his “pound cake” speech).
If Cosby likes Kucinich he must be to the left of Pol Pot. So why does he sound so conservative at times?
Lisa,
I am not implying that. Coates is assetting that is what Cosby thinks, and I agree with Coates on that much. As for Cosby’s politics, the Kucinich endorsement pretty much says it. Which is one reason why it’s funny that Coates doesn’t get Cosby’s indifference to Obama. Indeed, I would guess that if you could get Cosby to answer, his answer would not differ that much from Ferraro.
“He has none, unless you count being a flaming Marxist a qualification for president.”
I tell ya community organizers get no respect.
That, dre, would depend on what the community was being organized for. To clean up litter and trash, to have dilapidated buildings repaired or condemned, to get the municipality to repair streets and improve response times for emergency services, to encourage citizens to drive out (human) predators, is praise-worthy.
i posted on cosby versus obama way back on March 18:
http://astuteblogger.blogspot.com/2008/03/barack-victim-versus-bill-cosby-victor.html
Darlene,
Why is it that so many discussions of half-white, half-black must use “Tiger” Woods as some sort of social yardstick? Woods is, I believe 1/4 black, 1/4 white, and 1/2 asian. He doesn’t generally refer to himself as “black”.
That he must be claimed by some racist part of our culture is sort of pathetic, no? Are you a big fan of the racist one-drop rule?
http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/Constitution_Issues/one_drop_rule.htm
jailbones, it is because Mr. Woods doesn’t define himself along racial lines. As far as I see he rejects that identity politics and just wants to be known as a professional golfer.
Post-racial, and all that.
You can leave the racial identity politics to the professionals. Amatuer.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 5/18 @ 2:16 pm #
Sorry forgot /sarc tag.
BHO – The National Community Organizer for these 57 United States of AmeriKKKa
guinsPen, I had never really put the concept of “sexually precocious” and Thor together, really. I’m kind of trying to think of new puppies instead.
Speaking of Barry’s Mom…
Is she still alive, and if so, why has no one interviewed her (I know the answer to that question)?
Could she be more abrasive and nutso than Michelle?
Last I read, Obama is half white and way less “African” than he is dark hued African Arab. He is less truly African American than Tiger Woods is. Google: obama arab american. Interesting.
Baracky’s racial composition matters very little, except to those that vote for him. His ideas and empty suitedness are far more important, and give plenty of foundation for voting against him.
no.
dre: ah. I forget those also.
JD – his less than common sense responses to foreign policy questions are sufficient to vote against him. Sort of why Sen. Borah (R-Idaho) is not quoted as a foreign policy expert, but instead as a fool.
A smidge off-topic, but I’m suprised no one mentioned the other confluence of Cosby and Obama, noted by See-Dubya at Michelle Malkin’s blog —
—
It suddenly occurred to me what this latest Obamessiah outburst – all of his disciples assuming that Bush was talking about Big O when the word “appeasement†was mentioned – reminds me of.
I used to have a lot of Bill Cosby tapes. On one of them there was a monologue called “shop classâ€Â, which goes a little something like this:
In Junior High in Philadelphia, one of Bill’s bright friends brought a bullet to school and informed them that if you threw a bullet in the furnace, it would explode. So of course, they planned to try that out. They picked shop class to try it out.
They threw the bullet in the furnace and kept hammering, trying not to laugh….tink,tink…tink,tink… tink,tink… BLAM!… tink,tink (snicker)…tink, tink.
The shop teacher was furious, and demanded to know who threw the bullet in the furnace.
Tink,tink….. (snicker)…tink, tink…
Seeing no answer was forthcoming, this shop teacher tried psychology. He said, (nasally voice) “you know, a guy throws a bullet in the furnace….. it reflects on his mother.â€Â
Tink, tink….. tink,tink……
The shop teacher continues, “A guy’s whose mother would teach him to do something like throw a bullet in the furnace, well, his mother must be pretty awful.â€Â
Somebody whispers, “hey, Weird Harold (or whichever character it was), he’s talking about your motherâ€Â. Tink, tink…… tink, tink….
The shop teacher presses on, “I mean, the guy’s mother must be pretty low-down to have a kid who would……â€Â
At which point Old Weird Harold jumps up and says “HEY, I didn’t throw no bullet in the furnace!! And STOP TALKING ABOUT MY MOTHER!!â€Â
—
Now, back to your regular programming.
#33: I think quite a lot of people feel similar to Cosby – people who are probably going to vote for Obama. My theory is that the seriously crazy Obamamania (like what goes on at Huffington Post) is largely a white phenomenon. Black folks (who vote Democratic in large numbers – another issue altogether) are not doing it because they are wildly, droolingly smitten, but because he is a black guy who is somewhat viable as a candidate – which is pretty damned neat (if he were stupid or weird, they would not be voting for him – Alan Keyes and Jesse Jackson are cases in point). And the typical players are not impressed – Michael Eric Dyson, Julian Bond, and Andrew Young still despise Obama – he does not fit the mold – and he hasn’t promised those guys a bunch of federal programs designed to keep them relevant – as Hillary Clinton has. There is still quite a lot of strong support for Clinton. In a lot of working class black people’s minds, the Clintons have delivered. To these folks, Obama is just another Carter who is going to have us all living like an episode of “Good Times”.
My point is that there is no expectation that all black people fall desperately in love with Obama (except by some white people). And its kind of annoying when some ass like Larry King expects a black person to fawn over Barack Obama because well….he is black. I think that is what Cosby was irked about. It is like Tim Russert’s fixation with asking all black guests to comment on some controversial thing that some other black person said. He is such a stupid asshole. And he ALWAYS DOES IT. The funniest incident was when he pressed Colin Powell to comment on something that Harry Belafonte said. The look on Colin Powell’s face was priceless.
#11: Sarah, I have seen a similar type of person. They date a certain type to make a statement: “Asian girls are better women than you hairy American feminazi bitches! Or: Look Daddy, I have a black man! I let him fuck me in the ass, neener, neener, neener!”
Interestingly, I have a ridiculous fixation with freckly redheads (starting with a boy named Ronnie Peterson in 3rd grade). Though I have dated men who were not ginger haired, a good looking ginger boy will always do me in. I love the cute Prince Harry looking guys. I have been given quite a lot of crap by people who wondered why I can’t just stick with the brotha’s – I must harbor deep self-hatred or desire to recreate some Thomas Jefferson/Sally Hemming thing. But really, it is just my preference. And as it happens there are very few freckly, ginger haired black men (Malcom X was one, but he had other issues that would be a deal-breaker for me).
Such is life…
Thomas Jefferson was a “ginger boy.”
I am glad Lisa is amongst us. Especially since I have red hair and freckles. ;-)
Cosby’s politics have become a bit of a contradiction, in that he embraces the social conservative theory of self-reliance, when it comes to African-Americans taking resposibility for their own betterment, but can’t completely disattach himself to his past. It’s abit like Christopher Hitchens or Camille Paglia offering up opinions on other issues that jibe with conservative thinking while continuing to consider themselves on the left side of the political spectrum (and for Cosby — with people on the left having no qualms about doing to him what they’re currently doing to Hillary Clinton for her alleged heresy — saying nice things about Dennis Kucinich is also a stratgic way to avoid being tarred as a right-winger by black activists, which would then in their minds justify ignoring anything Cosby says).
#51: My ex and I dressed up as Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemming for a Halloween party in Savannah. We looked great, but it was SOOO not pc. If I am ever stupid enough to run for office, my ex could sink my campaign with just one of those pictures. Oh lawdy.
#52: Woot woot!
#53: Mmmm, liberals don’t necessarily think alike on all issues. Pretty much the same as all conservatives. One can identify as conservative or liberal without embracing everything that is identified with either of those labels. And I doubt Cosby gives a flying fuck about what black activists think. He never has and never will. He is a liberal, but he does not buy into the sixties “solutions” to black problems. But he is still liberal. Not a unique position at all. He is like a lot of people.
FRECKLIST!
(…said the graying dark-dark-haired unbefreckled person of Scottish-and-Irish ancestry. Oh, why did I have to have a half-French grandma?)
“I have a ridiculous fixation with freckly redheads”
Lisa, will a Scots-Irishman with a shaved head do? BTW, your Halloween costume idea with your ex is a riot, and I am appropriately outraged. I denounce myself for not having denounced you earlier.
I have a lot of respect for Bill Cosby in many matters. Just last year, he stood up for members of the Picayune Rancheria in California, who were disenrolled, en masse from their tribe, once the casino money came in. He was informed of their bad acts, and refused to play at their venue, cancelling his show. Thank you for that Bill. Read more about California’s Casino Indians at my blog.
Go McCain.
Yes, there are a lot of people that are voting for Obama because he is black. But they are not overlooking his qualifications.
Setting aside Senator Obama’s incredible lack of qualification for the job of President of the United States, my point was that these folks are voting for him because he’s black, then they look at his qualifications. His hue is the deciding factor, and that’s just sad.
I have a ridiculous fixation with freckly redheads
Me too. They say gentlemen prefer blondes, so I must be no gentlemen.
if he were stupid or weird, they would not be voting for him – Alan Keyes and Jesse Jackson are cases in point
Jesse Jackson got a huge percentage of the black vote, Alan Keyes is a Republican and thus branded a traitor but still got big hunks of the black vote when he has run other than against Obama. For some reason people didn’t care for a carpetbagger.
Lisa, you crack me up (in a good way).
I do know quite a few white guys who have serious cases of Yellow Fever (scientific name, GynoSinoPhelia). I also have one female white friend who cannot stop talking about various black celebs – she grew up in a very liberal home in a very redneck town, which I think may play a role. I grew up in a place with tons of visible minorities, but very few blacks. I admit that if you grow up learning about blacks from TV, and then only get to spend significant time with blacks once you are in your 20s, it is a bit odd. Now because of anything that they do, but rather because of all the weird expectations and stereotypes on TV.
Anyway, I think that posters above are right – most of the folks going loopy over Obama are white libs, and most of them were also Deaniacs. Combine them with the African-American community, who support him out of black solidarity (not the same as racism), plus a few others who have been stepped on or otherwise slighted by the Clinton Machine, and you have a pretty decent chunk of the Democrat Party.
I love to call out minorities and race hustlers for having double standards as much as the next conservative, but black support for Obama isn’t racist – they don’t hate Clinton because she’s white (at least until Bill opened his yap) but because he is the first serious black Presidential candidate, and they want him to go as far as he can go. Given the history of race relations in the US, it’s not hard to understand that.
#37 Jailbones
Why is it that so many discussions of half-white, half-black must use “Tiger†Woods as some sort of social yardstick?
Jailbones, you must be new around here so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt before I tell you to go take that “one drop” rule and go pound sand.
I refer to Tiger because he’s a guy who quite honestly doesn’t give a flying f**k what other people try to claim as “one of us”. He is comfortable in his own skin.
Me, I’m a mutt. I find the long and tangled threads of my geneology fascinating, not because of “race” (which is a biological myth) but because of all the interesting stories and paths that were taken down through the ages leading to my own existence. However, regardless of how those stories lead to me, they are NOT me. And I owe nothing to my dead ancestors outside of possible acknowledgment of their passage. The story of my life that I write is my own. My failures, my triumphs… it’s mine. It is interesting to note that my family was brought to the new world as slaves, but that doesn’t affect me NOW. It didn’t control how well or bad I did in school, in relationships or life.
I admire Tiger’s attitude that he “got it” at an early age that his worth in this life was not dependant on what group he was expected to suck up to. Barry went out of his way (consciously or not) to be “authenticated” by groups like Trinity Church. Barry claims to be “post racial” but he never can keep up the pretense for extended periods of time.
It really IS a pity.
[…] Bill Cosby appears unwiling to drink the Obama kool-aid. […]
#62: I would hesitate to make such an assumption as to who is comfortable in their skin. Rejecting the idea that you are black is not necessarily comfort in your skin (and Tiger Woods has never done such a thing – he has spoken about the momentousness of his own acheivement in a sport where his father could never have gained entry into in his time). Millions of black people are ok with being black, that does not mean they are “uncomfortable in their skin”. Hanging out with other black people does not mean that you are “sucking up to them” because you have to (as if it is so abhorrent to be around Teh Darkies that one would have to be sucking up to them to want to be around them).
Having a white mother who is attracted to chocolate colored skin does not make her a freak, a whore, or anything else abhorrent. She might be a freak or a whore for other reasons, but not because she found black men attractive. It does not make Obama some kind of product of a deviant, either. I am disturbed by the very idea of such a thing.
“Millions of black people are ok with being black, that does not mean they are “uncomfortable in their skin—
Lisa, who even implied that? You misunderstood that completely. The observations was more akin to
“he is conflicted about his identity, and feels the need to overcompensate or provide bonafides to himself or others where he belongs”.
Lisa, her choice was not a conventional one, and you obviously are aware of that. And ostensibly to be normal there would be more to such a choice than attraction of any sort, let alone a pleasing skin tone, and most certainly there was in her case. The more telling qualities of O’s mother is not her choice of mate, but her lifestyle in general and her decision to hand him over to her parents to raise.
The relevance to Obama being at least a low level sense of being a fish out of water.
Lisa: I think that your point is well taken.
One point I’d like to make about Tiger that backs up Darleen’s statement is this: Of course, as a man of “mixed race” and a historian of the game, he clearly recognizes the importance of his achievements in the sport. Now the idea of a black man (or brown) competing on the PGA in all tournaments is second nature.
However, Woods has been consistent in not allowing himself to be drawn into controveries regarding race, sex and access. He stayed well out of the Augusta National “no women” controversy and has been quick to move on from other, potentally racially charged situations (Fuzzy Zoeller and the idiot “watermelon” menu item and the Golf Channel commentator’s “lynching” comment come to mind.)
Tiger is a smart guy who realizes that playing the victim, being so ginormously successful, is not a long term strategy. That is reflected in his charity work, which emphasises golf for lower income children of all races.
My daughter goes to school at Philly Community college, whose student body is about 80% black. While she has numerous black friends and oves very comfortably through multi-racial relationshipes she’s spoken of multiple circumstances of racial based hassling by blacks for being a “white cracker bitch” or some such. Whenever I hear some BLT opportunist bloviating about “no such thing as reverse racism” I just laugh and shake my head. Once race becomes the primary talking point, both the racists and the apologists are exposed as blinkered and self serving.
#67: True BJ. Tiger has admirably side stepped the foolishness that gets so many African American public figures tripped up. He clearly sees that he does not owe anyone some white person’s head on a platter to prove he is authentic. For that, I am glad. He speaks to many in my generation who have decided to get the hell off the cross because someone might need the wood. I guess my issue is that Barack Obama is no race hustler because he chose to be friends with black people. I don’t think he was rejecting white people in doing so. He was not some radical running around with a black beret.
Well, Lisa, He’D look kinda cute in a black beret! Oh, oh, and black gloves too! AUTHENTIC! :-)
BJ: Believe it or not, I had a similar experience to your daughter: Until 7th grade, my sister and I were the only black people in our school. We had a somewhat diverse military neighborhood, but it just happened that in our age group at our particular school, we were the only black people. So I never got the memo about what “black” music was or “black” language was. I my oldest sister and my brother listened to funk and R & B, wore afros, and were really afrocentric – but they never gave the impression that that was the “black thing to do”. So I unselfconciously listened to rock, grew up speaking “like a white girl” (though I never knew I was speaking like that until someone told me). My parents were military and spent 16 years living in England. They got a lovely appreciation of European culture and took us to the opera, symphony, and to lots of museums, galleries, readings, etc. We often read and discussed classical literature. (We also became terrible gossips about the royal family.) So anyway, upon our entrance into a junior high with a 60% black population, it was immediately noted that we talked “like whites”, listened to rock, and had read most of what was on the reading list. The typical fuckery followed for a while. Threats were issued, afterschool rumbles were had, and eventually people shut the hell up (it was learned that having a Dokken t-shirt and knowing how to throw a punch are not mutually exclusive).
I don’t harbor any bitterness or think that urban blacks are particularly dickheaded. My parents basically taught me that bullies are bullies. They use any excuse to bully.
Lisa: I am a 17 year old student of a prodominently white school. I Came here 3 years ago from an urban area. The heart of Cleveland, Ohio. Living in Cleveland gave me insight on my roots and where black people get the ideas of someone “talking white” and “talking black”. You see we don’t believe it still exist but for many many years white people tried to make us follow their ways and made us feel the need to be like THEM. So though it was WRONG what they did to you, you still have to realize where they were coming from when they veiwed you as “talking white” or “acting white”. Now when I am around fellow classmates SOME of the white people veiw me as Lower class because I listen to hip hop and I embrace my African-American Culture and I am getting the same education as THEM. While I appreciate all music genre’s I prefer hip-hop and R&B(sometimes ROCK). They don’t like that I am different. I dont get angry with them though because I realize that they are not used to such a strong personality. We don’t like to think like this but some of us still carry-on with that slave mentality. The Willie Lynch Mentality. BLACK IS BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE! Please understand what I am saying. Shaniqua Shakila Mohammed which ever you prefer, we are all beautiful, intellegent, wonderful human beings. Even when we DON’T COPY THE WAYS OF WHITE PEOPLE!. We can be URBAN and SMART , AND BEAUTIFUL ALL AT THE SAME TIME! No white person or black person (like Bill Cosby) will ever have me ashamed to be Urban or Black or whatever he seems to be ashamed of! Wether you come from The suburbs or the Hood we all have the same roots!
Lisa: I am a 17 year old student of a prodominently white school. I Came here 3 years ago from an urban area. The heart of Cleveland, Ohio. Living in Cleveland gave me insight on my roots and where black people get the ideas of someone “talking white” and “talking black”. You see we don’t believe it still exist but for many many years white people tried to make us follow their ways and made us feel the need to be like THEM. So though it was WRONG what they did to you, you still have to realize where they were coming from when they veiwed you as “talking white” or “acting white”. Now when I am around fellow classmates SOME of the white people veiw me as Lower class because I listen to hip hop and I embrace my African-American Culture and I am getting the same education as THEM. While I appreciate all music genre’s I prefer hip-hop and R&B(sometimes ROCK). They don’t like that I am different. I dont get angry with them though because I realize that they are not used to such a strong personality. We don’t like to think like this but some of us still carry-on with that slave mentality. The Willie Lynch Mentality. BLACK IS BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE! Please understand what I am saying. Shaniqua Shakila Mohammed which ever you prefer, we are all beautiful, intellegent, wonderful human beings. Even when we DON’T COPY THE WAYS OF WHITE PEOPLE!. We can be URBAN and SMART , AND BEAUTIFUL ALL AT THE SAME TIME! No white person or black person (like Bill Cosby) will ever have me ashamed to be Urban or Black or whatever he seems to be ashamed of! Wether you come from The suburbs or the Hood we all have the same roots!