As nishi predicted yesterday evening (h/t Pableau):
“The person I saw yesterday was not the person that I met 20 years ago,” Obama said of the man who married him.
Which is tough, but I can see why Andrew’s so gung-ho. Hahaha. Yeah, easy, I know.
On the other hand, Wright has made a serious case to be considered for the position of Jester to the POTUS, if you can dig a kind of Cedric the Entertainer on meth vibe.
Sonnet 116
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth’s unknown, although his height be taken.
Love’s not Time’s fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle’s compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 12:55 pm #
But what does it mean?
Comment by Byna on 4/29 @ 12:56 pm #
“Obama said of the man who married him”
I didn’t know that gay marriage was legal now, much less 20 years ago.
And isn’t he also married to a woman? Bigamist!
Comment by dicentra on 4/29 @ 12:58 pm #
Oh, for the sake of Pete. Obama went to Harvard and drank the Ivy Juice. He stayed at Wright’s church because the same flavor of Kool-Ade was being served there.
I was at Cornell in 1992, the 500 year anniversary of Columbus. They had tons of posters and signs and forums and speeches bemoaning five centuries of Racism, Genocide, Imperialism, and Hate. Or whatever vile “ism” they could toss in the pot.
The malarkey that Wright spouts from his pulpit is standard for the university crowd. That’s why Obama didn’t think it was all that controversial: he had long ago bought into it at Harvard, and it sounded exactly right to him.
It’s funny watching people get all shocked and appalled at Wright’s comments, as if they were unique to BLT or the TUCC. Hardly. Zinn or Chompsky are the source documents for this kind of garbage. It pervades university campuses and coffee shops from here to Paris.
Why do they, the most privileged people in the history of the earth, whine and complain and bitch and moan and pitch fits and conniptions at the Evil That Is The United States?
Easy. If they can convince everyone else that the country is That Messed Up, an overthrow of the current order will be much easier to sell. An overthrow in which they take their turns at the whip, that is.
Comment by Karl on 4/29 @ 12:58 pm #
Andy lurves him more than evah!
Comment by mojo on 4/29 @ 12:58 pm #
Can you say “set piece”?
Wanna buy some seaside land in Florida?
Comment by B Moe on 4/29 @ 1:00 pm #
Seriously, it was so obvious nishi could see it coming.
Comment by Karl on 4/29 @ 1:03 pm #
dicentra,
You have a point, though I doubt Zinn or Chomsky would go on about black right-brain learning, the pentatonic scale, etc. The anti-US stuff is not unique to BLT. After all, BLT is just a variation on LT which draws from Marx, Gramsci, etc. It’s the fusuion with religion that distinguishes it. That’s why my long essay on BLT suggested that Obama was avoiding the religion issue by giving a speech on race.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 4/29 @ 1:05 pm #
It had to be done, but I think too little, too late. The nish-wits and Andi’s will buy it because they want to have to; but normal people? No.
Comment by Karl on 4/29 @ 1:05 pm #
It was obvious because when you lose Excitable Andy and Eugene Robinson, even a cocker spaniel can figure out that damage control is necessary.
Comment by JD on 4/29 @ 1:06 pm #
What did he say in the last 24-48 hours that was more objectionable than the 20 years leading up to the denunciation?
Comment by B Moe on 4/29 @ 1:08 pm #
It was the context that changed, JD. It’s all about the context.
Comment by bigbooner on 4/29 @ 1:10 pm #
Dicentra nails it. Wright is a poopyhead. Like a whole buncha other people. Hillary can see one Reverend Wright and raise about 20 other low lifes.
Comment by Lisa on 4/29 @ 1:13 pm #
You were 100% correct on this Karl. And I hate you for it.
Comment by Dan Collins on 4/29 @ 1:15 pm #
So, at least you’ve got THAT going for you, Karl. ;-P
Comment by Scape-goat Trainee on 4/29 @ 1:19 pm #
And now Rev. Al has accused Obama of “grandstanding in front of white people”. God I love it when they perform a circular firing squad.
Get some popcorn, this is getting fun.
Comment by mojo on 4/29 @ 1:20 pm #
I notice he’s already a “former pastor” to AP…
Comment by Dan Collins on 4/29 @ 1:26 pm #
Well, he’d already resigned his preaching duties, for the most part, mojo, so, technically . . .
Comment by thor on 4/29 @ 1:26 pm #
That was not just Barack Obama making a speech today.
That was Bill Buckner shagging a grounder in game 6.
That was Chris Webber calling for a timeout when he had none.
That was a 6′2″ half-black Hawaiian jump shooter who needed a hug.
O!
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 1:27 pm #
But NPR told me Wright was mainstream and I just didn’t understand the black church cause I’m white and kinda stupid. I’m confuzzled.
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 4/29 @ 1:36 pm #
I’m wondering what changed from the Philadelphia speech.
Wright aboslutely positively said nothing new in the last three days. We are now supposed to accept without comment (or with a big whew were we Andy or nishi) this grand denunciation because he finally did the right thing and specified that to which he objected?
Puh-leeze! He could have said these very same things in his Philadelphia speech and knocked it down then. Nothing of this should have surprised him. So why now? Well, inconvenient timing or grand conspiracy set piece?
I’ll give him limited props for being willing to piss off the hard core BLT people like candace and his fellow parishoners but this is awfully late in the game.
“I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.”
Sometimes I just think that this guy is probing to see how stupid we really are and, once known, how far he can go in obfuscating who he really is.
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 4/29 @ 1:37 pm #
I’m also going to be interested in what Wright has to say over the next several days. If he goes underground again … hmmmmmm …
Comment by Hillary Clinton on 4/29 @ 1:41 pm #
Enough of Obama’s big speeches and huge rallies and denunciations of Reverends! Look at my balls!
Comment by cranky-d on 4/29 @ 1:42 pm #
Nothing that Wright has said lately is new information. The reason Obama did this now is the fact that Wright decided to put it out there again. If Wright had kept his mouth shut and let the whole thing die, Obama would not have denounced him.
Comment by Karl on 4/29 @ 1:43 pm #
thor!
And I accept Lisa’s comment in the spirit it was intended.
Comment by B Moe on 4/29 @ 1:46 pm #
Man, that TalkLeft comment thread is rough. Obama might still find a way to lose this thing.
Comment by thor on 4/29 @ 1:46 pm #
What?
I still think Obama is likable enough.
Comment by Dan Collins on 4/29 @ 1:47 pm #
I find this new politics invigorating.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 1:47 pm #
Baracky should for sure ask Wright for all that money back what he and M’chelle gave their hatey anti-American pastor I think.
Comment by dicentra on 4/29 @ 1:48 pm #
Karl: True ’nuff. I wasn’t talking about Wright’s racial views so much as his bash-America-first perspective, though. The racial angle gets emphasized at TUCC, but the Inherent Racism of
AmericaWhite People is a popular meme at the university.What frightens me is this statement from a couple threads back: “That [Hillary], better than Obama, connects with the working-class white people who are traditional swing voters.”
That’s pretty bad, Barry: less street cred than Hillary. Even I have more street cred than Hillary.
Comment by Dan Collins on 4/29 @ 1:49 pm #
Wait. Doesn’t going to Columbia give you any street cred at all?
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 1:49 pm #
Ohnoes. What if there is a sickness in the black church? What do we do?
Comment by JD on 4/29 @ 1:49 pm #
Karl, et al. I will offer my humble prediction. As of this “denunciation”, there will be no more questioning of Wright. The media will not question what new information came to light that made him change his position from I could no more denounce Wright than denounce my racist grandmother, to today, where he did so. I guess since he already threw granny under the rear of the bus, Wright was the logical next step. The simple fact is that this denunciation was due to politics, not belief. He got what he needed from Wright, and they had agreed before the campaign that he may have to distance himself. They acknowledge that to be the case. So, coming when it does, to say it seems disingenuous is an understatment on the order of magnitude as saying the gleenwalds are all liars.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 1:51 pm #
The audacity of my hatey anti-American church!
Comment by Mikey NTH on 4/29 @ 1:57 pm #
#31: We send them a thermos of chicken noodle soup and a nice card, haps.
Comment by Karl on 4/29 @ 1:57 pm #
JD,
The press will lay off Obama on Wright. The interesting thing will be what Wright may do now, and whether the press will drop him. The press may be biased, but crazy is always good TV.
Comment by JohnAnnArbor on 4/29 @ 2:01 pm #
But, who denounces the denouncers?
Comment by thor on 4/29 @ 2:01 pm #
#34 Really think they’ll fall for the same trick after the U.S. Gov’t put AIDS in their boiler chickens?
Comment by JohnAnnArbor on 4/29 @ 2:01 pm #
Wright should go on the Springer show.
Comment by Christopher Taylor on 4/29 @ 2:04 pm #
“The person I saw yesterday was not the person that I met 20 years ago,â€Â
Probably so, we all change. The question is: were the views he expressed yesterday the same as the ones he’s been teaching for 20 years in the church you continually attended? Do they represent the person he was that you defended as little as a week ago?
Comment by Mikey NTH on 4/29 @ 2:08 pm #
This is Sen. Obama’s swiftboat moment, brought to him by his spiritual mentor. Like John Kerry and his Senate ‘Winter Soldier’ testimony, this was sitting there ready to go. And it was even acknowledged before the campaign that this might be a problem. And yet, nothing was done to limit it before it exploded during the campaign (or nothing that was noticeable to the observor). Once it had exploded the response wasn’t swift and sure, indicative of a thought-out plan; but it was scrambling and delayed indicating panic-mode.
During the Kerry flap four years ago I said something like this: You want to be president, Sen. Kerry. The people in your campaign are going to be in your administration. You are going to have to anticipate threats to the country and react to them before they become disasters, and yet you and your people knew of this issue and did nothing. The cure for the issue was easy and should have been applied before campaigning, but no - you either lack the common sense that God gave gravel or you are so arrogant you don’t take any precautions. Either way that doesn’t build confidence in your abilities to handle the crises that the President must handle.
The same thing could be said of Sen. Obama.
Comment by steve on 4/29 @ 2:11 pm #
Ya know what I love? The fact that the liberal media - who are clearly for Obama - barely mention Wright. If they were at all even handed, we’d be hearing endlessly about this guy, but they clearly are all but endorsing him by completely ignoring the Wright. Pathetic.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/29 @ 2:16 pm #
Too little, 20 years too late.
Comment by Lisa on 4/29 @ 2:17 pm #
#32: No, I think the media has lost its fluttering adoration.
Karl, thanks for being so gracious. I am so depressed. I was fairly certain that he was going to say he was really sorry and maybe tell some horrible story about growing up during segregation and how this is why he was such an angry man but now he has made peace and loves everyone because we are all beautiful in the eyes of God (then maybe sing a beautiful negro spiritual in a rich baritone which would bring tears to everyone’s eyes)…
Alas, no. And it annoys me when a black person perpetuates the idea that “black people think this…” and “blacks people do that…” to excuse their own bullshit ideas…but then get mad when the same shit is quoted back to them by some white person who takes them at their word and really does believe that we all think and do shit as one, like a bunch of smelt.
I still like Obama, but damn….how much can a loyal Obamaton take before they reach the point where they start drinking and taking pretty blue pills?
Comment by thor on 4/29 @ 2:23 pm #
You leave me my Viagra, Lisa, and have at the aspirin.
O!
Comment by Mikey NTH on 4/29 @ 2:25 pm #
Don’t take the blue pills - no good comes from that!
So I’ve, uh heard.
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 4/29 @ 2:25 pm #
Mikey:
I emphatically choose option B as Kerry is the poster child for arrogant asshattery.
Yup, I’ve got issues with reconstituted ketchup man.
Comment by LiveFromFortLivingRoom on 4/29 @ 2:27 pm #
I think this could be summed up better as Obama’s Macacca moment.
Comment by mcgruder on 4/29 @ 2:28 pm #
I dont know, but this is getting to be some of the most enjoyable political theater in some time. I mean in one instance you have revealed: the really ugly underbelly of the NAACP, the logical absurdities of the activist liberal church, the crazy-as-batshit buddy of Obama’s, and the specter of watching white liberal agnostics who darken church doors once every 11-13 years defending the theological underpinnings of the sermons of a man for whom reason and sense seems has but a nodding acquaintance.
It also has the signal benefit of giving McCain a chance (with all that entails), when he should have slightly better odds of getting elected than say Alan Keyes.
The GOP has given the electorate no reason to vote for it, but Obama comes along and gets caught selling the same old 1975 humanities department horseshit.
the audaucity of hope, indeed.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 2:29 pm #
Baracky’s grandmother must be a very worried lady round about now.
Comment by mcgruder on 4/29 @ 2:29 pm #
oops.
audaucity=audacity.
Comment by Enoch_Root - TWP also on 4/29 @ 2:30 pm #
Has anyone seen the Goracle? Obama should ask him to stuff Wright in the lock-box right about now.
Comment by Enoch_Root - TWP also on 4/29 @ 2:31 pm #
also, Bush… and Boobs too
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 4/29 @ 2:32 pm #
#15: SG - I’ll admit that this makes me giggle like a non-lethal Japanese schoolgirl:
From the New York Post:
Hee, hee!
Comment by Lisa on 4/29 @ 2:33 pm #
Obama comes along and gets caught selling the same old 1975 humanities department horseshit.
That is funny.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 2:49 pm #
Amy said it first.
I think she is right.
If it was planned do you know what this means?
this is a tactical strike of breathtaking brilliance.
McCain is utterly doomed.
Comment by thor on 4/29 @ 2:50 pm #
They’re re-playing the O-man’s press conference today on C-span.
He’s such a friggin’ stud.
O!
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 2:50 pm #
an im not mad at u guyz any more.
i got even.
;)
Comment by Aldo on 4/29 @ 2:51 pm #
The Puppetmaster writes sarcastically:
Is this the same guy who got his panties in a wad because someone used the word “poof” to describe the way John Edwards fluffed his silky mane?
Comment by Jack Klompus on 4/29 @ 2:59 pm #
dicentra: You nailed it in terms of the mentality’s ho-hum nature. I was at Penn in ‘91 and this style of thought was all the rage among priveleged looking for some rad-cred. A dash of Foucault usually garnished this boring buffet of ideology. This campaign season has led me to have to explain with a sigh, “I went to college with so many Barack and Michelle Obamas. I know what they’re like, and the thought of them in power makes me cringe.”
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 3:00 pm #
plus i have today off and i had the swellest morning evah kicking the crap out of that DI stooge Berlinski at PJM.
;)
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/29 @ 3:01 pm #
Yet, nishi, Obama spent 20 years listening to Wright, called him his “mentor”, used his sermons as inspiration in his speeches and books, and put Wright in a key advisory position on his campaign.
And now he tells us he never knew what Wright believed?
If you buy that, you must accept that Obama’s a fucking moron.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/29 @ 3:03 pm #
I do wonder if nishi’s new fan — Derbyshire — is aware what a moron she is, and just why we consider her a eugenicist. Or that she’s not really Japanese?
Comment by mojo on 4/29 @ 3:05 pm #
Set piece. The presentation, anyway. Scripted as hell, at least on the Obama side. But that’s nothin’ new. Barry couldn’t order dinner without a teleprompter, I suspect.
They may have had a genuine falling out, who knows? I find the scenario of Barry going to Rev Wright, pleading with his 20+ year spiritual mentor to shut the fuck up until AFTER the election, or at least the convention, only to have the Wright Rev tell him to go piss up a rope quite plausible…
All in all, satisfying and very amusing.
Not gonna get me to vote for him, though. I dislike being considered an imbecile.
Comment by A fine scotch on 4/29 @ 3:09 pm #
I really shouldn’t feed the troll but:
I know I’m not super-smart like Nishi but can anyone tell me how Obama getting everything about this Jeremiah Wright situation bass-ackwards now means Nishi got even with the commenters here (from comment 57)?
I’m into some serious argumentative ju-jitsu and I likes me some serious absurdity (which I why I like this place so much), but seriously, how the @#!@ does Nishi’s comment 57 work?
Comment by A fine scotch on 4/29 @ 3:10 pm #
Is there some sort of Japanese anime space time continuum thingy I’m missing?
Comment by Patrick on 4/29 @ 3:13 pm #
Boy, when Andrew crushes, he crushes hard. Can’t wait until he feels betrayed, though. Just look how he turned on Pres. Bush and Glen Reynolds.
Comment by JD on 4/29 @ 3:14 pm #
Lisa - can’t you teach the other loonwaffles how to disagree without being disagreeable?
the nishitiot is still a fucking imbecile, even if she happened to guess right.
Comment by MlR on 4/29 @ 3:16 pm #
The saddest spectacle is that one of these three candidates is going to be the next President of the United States.
Comment by Karl on 4/29 @ 3:17 pm #
It’s hard to be impressed by a trick when they tell you how it’s done in advance.
Comment by JD on 4/29 @ 3:18 pm #
AFS - she suggested that Baracky might disown Wright in the manner in which he tossed Granny under the rear of the bus. She has been wrong about virtually everything else. That was just a 20 year judgement mistake. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/29 @ 3:18 pm #
“Comment by Patrick on 4/29 @ 3:13 pm #”
Just wait until he’s gobsmacked.
Comment by Patrick on 4/29 @ 3:20 pm #
Speaking of crushes, I’m totally in love with Amy Holmes. Don’t tell my wife, please.
Comment by Patrick on 4/29 @ 3:21 pm #
#68, you’re a bastard. Most times I can manage to forget that.
Comment by Lesley on 4/29 @ 3:25 pm #
Obama made a smart move. He may not win this election, but he’s a young man and has time to reposition himself, build his resume, get his issues (Wright, Ayres, Rezko) behind him, hone his abilities to run a Presidental campaign, and become a more centrist candidate. If he spends four years turning himself into a black Bill Clinton, he just might make it next time around.
Truthfully, if he wins this election, I think he’d have a miserable time being President. I don’t think he’s seasoned enough.
Comment by Jeff G. on 4/29 @ 3:29 pm #
This was Obama’s attempt at a Sister Souljah moment.
Reverend Souljah.
Problem is, the “tactical brilliance” nishi sees comes down to the potential motives I outlined last week wrt the Moyer interview: how does one spend 20 years in a church and not know what it is they preach?
How much of his “churchgoing” is a complete and utter show? If it isn’t, how daft must he be not to have figured out what his church was preaching for 20 years?
He’s either cynically opportunistic, cravenly disingenuous, or remarkably stupid.
That ain’t a brilliant strategy. That’s getting caught with your pants down.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 3:31 pm #
oh….i didn’t mean the Derb.
:-)
yup Karl, i tole you too.
tactical strike.
Amy thot it would be strategic, but i think O has decided to go for Indiana.
then HRC will be done.
Comment by Patrick on 4/29 @ 3:31 pm #
Right on, Jeff.
I say he’s both “cynically opportunistic” and “cravenly dis[i]ngenuous”. He alternates hourly.
Comment by Karl on 4/29 @ 3:31 pm #
I agree that it is logically an “or” situation, but not necessarily an “either” situation.
Comment by Squid on 4/29 @ 3:32 pm #
Sure, our enemies have the Bomb, and we’re holed up in the lower 48 just waiting for Bad Things to happen, and the economy’s in the shitter, and the lower 51% have voted that the upper 49% have to give away all their worldly possessions, and unemployment is 9% and climbing, and the lights go out randomly ‘cuz we’re out of generating capacity, and the only deployment the Army has seen in two years is an assignment to watch the UN rape the locals in Africa.
But what’s really horrible is that President Obama is having such a miserable time.
Comment by Karl on 4/29 @ 3:33 pm #
nishi
amy talked about a 527 ad
maybe the nc gop and mccain are all in on it
lulz
less dervish dancing pls
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 3:35 pm #
disagree Jeffie…
Wright went extreme, way over the top, and O let it percolate in the visual cortex for a whole day.
i think..he even planted a question in the press so he cud say how “angry” michelle was too.
its sheer genius.
major garrett on fox was totally having a meltdown tryin to stick wright back onto O.
i think he was almost crying.
Comment by Karl on 4/29 @ 3:36 pm #
a tactical strike
so tactical in fact
that o put out a lame statement yesterday
just to head-fake everyone
in his memoirs
he will write
that he joined the church
to set this all up
he is the krell
Comment by Karl on 4/29 @ 3:37 pm #
after the presser
he walked away
over a pond
which turned to wine
from which unicorns drank
beat that, Maverick
Comment by Patrick on 4/29 @ 3:39 pm #
Poetry, Karl.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 3:40 pm #
i don’t know that it is cynical…..wright an TUCC were a good thing for O when he came to chicago at the time.
and i believe TUCC was a good church community for him.
he likely slept thru the sermons mostly.
don’t be bitter. ;)
it was a really good speech.
Comment by Salt Lick on 4/29 @ 3:41 pm #
Is it possible that Wright actually dislikes Obama because Obama is half-African and not suffered enough? I’m serious. I’ve had several African friends (from Kenya, Ethiopia, and Liberia) who did not mesh well with American-born blacks. Their assumptions and attitudes were just different than native-born American blacks. While Obama worked hard to be “black” by American standards, Wright strikes me as a man who knows an act when he sees it. (Or in whitey English, it takes one to know one, or you can’t kid a kidder.) Or to be more charitable to Obama, maybe he genuinely tried to fit in out of a desire to “belong,” but Wright despises him because he’s not traveled the hard road (segregation days) but is nevertheless reaching for the golden ring. To Wright, Obama may be just an uppity Negro.
Comment by Aldo on 4/29 @ 3:42 pm #
#85
Andy is that you?
Comment by alppuccino on 4/29 @ 3:43 pm #
its sheer genius.
sheer –adjective
1. transparently thin; diaphanous, as some fabrics: sheer stockings.
I agree.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/29 @ 3:44 pm #
He said nothing he hasn’t said before.
Comment by Karl on 4/29 @ 3:45 pm #
best part of the speech
birds sang on his shoulder
squirrels handed out candy
mice handed out talking points
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 3:50 pm #
hehe, yup it was adorable.
;)
Comment by Jeff G. on 4/29 @ 3:51 pm #
I’m not bitter. But if I don’t want to hear sermons, I don’t pretend I do. If he slept through them, what was he doing there? What was Michelle doing there? And why has Michelle echoed much of what Wright has preached.
Was she sleeping, too? Did the two not talk about the sermons on the way home?
Obama had plenty of opportunity to distance himself from this guy and didn’t do so until the guy went before an audience and reiterated to a general audience what he’d always been saying in the “black context” of the “black churchgoing experience.”
It is this that has Obama distancing himself — the move from the BLT fringe to a mainstream audience.
Don’t think people are so stupid as not to recognize this.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/29 @ 3:52 pm #
Well, we all know nishi doesn’t think.
Comment by alppuccino on 4/29 @ 3:54 pm #
If you can be brought to Christ (no offense) in your sleep, the collection plate will suffer. 20 grand is a big hotel bill when the mattress is a pew.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 3:54 pm #
rob he said O was throwin him under the bus for political expediency.
haha…i think it was scripted.
/sideways smile
Comment by Jim in KC on 4/29 @ 3:54 pm #
A fine scotch–
Nishi said a day or two ago that Obama would say that Wright was not the guy that married him 20 years ago. Turns out she was more or less right.
Seems more “unavoidable” than “brilliant” though.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 3:58 pm #
“Don’t think people are so stupid as not to recognize this.”
I don’t have much faith in the intelligence of the electorate.
honestly, do you?
and seriously, do you think O and Michelle believe the govt gives black ppl AIDS?
it doenst really matter.
O is the best candidate.
Comment by alppuccino on 4/29 @ 4:00 pm #
it doenst really matter.
O is the best candidate.
I smell new campaign slogan.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 4:01 pm #
A Fine Scotch……
also i narced these guys out to the Derb for callin me eugenicist when i linked Dr. Pournelle.
but that isn’t all i did.
;)
Comment by Patrick on 4/29 @ 4:01 pm #
Jeff,
Personally, I think Obama’s connection to Wright was really a cynical ploy to seem more “authentically” black. I think most people feel this intuitively. But it remains to be seen if it actually matters. After all, most people expect their politicians to be cynical. We’ll have to see what impact it has on someone selling “hope” and a “new kind of politics”.
Comment by A fine scotch on 4/29 @ 4:04 pm #
Jim in KC,
Ok, so Barack did what Nishi (and anyone with half a brain, but I repeat myself) would have found most politically expedient.
How does her candidate’s candidacy going up in flames cause her to “get even” with the PW commentariat?
Comment by A fine scotch on 4/29 @ 4:06 pm #
Nishi,
How does you telling someone else that a person here called you a eugenicist magically cause you to “get even” with the rest of the commenters here?
Comment by psycho.. is late to this thread on 4/29 @ 4:07 pm #
That’s rural route cred. There are no streets in the northeastern frontiers of Jesusland.
Personally, I defer to DMX on street-cred matters: “Your mama didn’t name you no Barack!” X brings the pith.
(BTW: The episode of DMX’s BET show that he spent drinking, grillin’, and talking loud drunk beef-filled shit with his old redneck neighbor was the high point of American race relations. Seriously.)
Stupid isn’t the word I’d use — I consider it evidence of his cynicism, actually — but his incoherence when speaking extemporaneously is more striking than Bush’s. You’re not allowed to notice that.
That and the ears. Same ears. Don’t look.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 4:07 pm #
Obama had plenty of opportunity to distance himself from this guy and didn’t do so until the guy went before an audience and reiterated to a general audience what he’d always been saying in the “black context†of the “black churchgoing experience.â€Â
Like i splained to Karl, O did just enough tactically to distance himself at the time.
He kept a reserve.
Now, you guyz have spent your ammo like drunken sailors.
the dem 527s will just make commercials of O sorrowfully repudiating the reverend……and pffft 500,000 up in smoke.
the RNC spent money for nuthin.
the 527s on wright and O are nullified.
Comment by Civilis on 4/29 @ 4:09 pm #
Is there some sort of Japanese anime space time continuum thingy I’m missing?
No. Of all the weird things I’ve seen in anime (to put it mildly), none of them have anything on this.
Comment by eLarson on 4/29 @ 4:13 pm #
“and seriously, do you think O and Michelle believe the govt gives black ppl AIDS?”
Doesn’t matter. But what I find interesting that they are comfortable around the kinds of people who believe the government is up to things LIKE that, even if they don’t believe that PARTICULAR thing.
Of course, why would one want to preside over such a government, if one believed it capable of that kind of evil?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 4:14 pm #
hahaha
i have such sights to show you.
Comment by McGehee on 4/29 @ 4:17 pm #
Like I said in the other thread, this happened way too late to change anybody’s minds.
Comment by alppuccino on 4/29 @ 4:18 pm #
Jumping ship? To where? Why, to the Attention Whore Party, that’s where.
Comment by Civilis on 4/29 @ 4:18 pm #
The next step for McCain or Hillary is to target another of Obama’s questionable friends. “You distanced yourself from Wright, why not Ayers/Rezko?” Michelle Obama is too dangerous a target, because it would look personal, but the others are fair game, and he really needs to give us an answer on them, too.
Comment by Karl on 4/29 @ 4:20 pm #
attacks diffused
just as foreseen
call me barack
and palpatine
myanmar shave
Comment by alppuccino on 4/29 @ 4:20 pm #
Will Michelle O still be making speeches?
Comment by alppuccino on 4/29 @ 4:21 pm #
And if not, why not?
Comment by Jeff G. on 4/29 @ 4:30 pm #
Heh. Nishi thinks we’ve spent all our ammo.
Shit, nish. I didn’t break out the bunnies last time until at least July…
Comment by Civilis on 4/29 @ 4:32 pm #
You know, I went and did something stupid. I read Pournelle’s article, linked via Derbyshire via Nishi up above. And guess what? Nishi’s been reading too much into it! Seriously, take a look, and compare it with her rhetoric. Use some of those reading comprehension skills she taxes to the utmost. No mention of religion, and Nishi’s “the US is falling behind secular Europe” schtick is contradicted by looking at the output of the US system that Pournelle cites. Now if only Derb could pay attention to the full debate, not just Nishi’s one comment…
The surest sign of intelligence is the ability to think. Whether you looked up at the night sky as a child and wondered “How do the stars work?” or “Why are we here?”, as long as you worked at it you demonstrated intelligence. When you don’t exercise that ability to think, that’s when intelligence is lost.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 4:32 pm #
Jeffie, the only way McCain has a chance is if you can work for his campaign.
else, its game over.
;)
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 4:34 pm #
al, u missed it…O had a plant in the newsies and he asked what Mishelle thot about Wright….O said, she’s very angry.
slick!
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 4:37 pm #
civilis, they called me a eugenicist for the bell curve stuff and the 40%.
that is all dr. pournelle.
actually, i guess you all were callin him a eugenicist too.
like stein callin dawkins hitler i guess.
Comment by Lisa on 4/29 @ 4:44 pm #
Nishi I think McCain has an excellent chance of winning with very little effort. Yes, he is older than the hills on grandma’s chest. But he has won half of the battle by winning over the press big time. And he has a pretty solid history of doing the right thing even when it is not so popular, and the masses kinda like him for that. Plus, he has never been part of the really nasty Noise Machine and was once even a victim of it. So, we will see. Don’t count the old buzzard out yet though.
Comment by Jim in KC on 4/29 @ 4:47 pm #
That, AFS, actually has something to do with her cheerleading for the notion that only Obama knows how to save those on the “left side of the bell curve,” which is, of course, a measure of her lack of sophistication in addition to something that made a few people think she sounded like an early 20th century eugenecist.
Politicians never fix problems, but she hasn’t figured that out yet, which is why I go for “unsophisticated” instead of “stupid.” And her communication style, in addition to being mostly txt-speak, is simply too telegraphic–most people can’t be bothered to figure out exactly what the fuck she’s talking about, and I frankly can’t blame them.
Comment by Nishi's daddy on 4/29 @ 4:48 pm #
Yeah! Nishi’s a goofball everywhere! Congrats! Attention Whore party would be the ticket. That or the “I failed my daddy and am taking it out on Blogs everywhere” party.
Comment by dicentra on 4/29 @ 4:54 pm #
Wait. Doesn’t going to Columbia give you any street cred at all?
Cornell, DC, COR. NELL. Upstate NY. An unholy alliance between an Ag school and an Ivy League. They’re all into birdwatching and junk.
On the other hand, I also spent 15 months in Colombia, South America. Maybe that’s the Col[o/u]mbia you meant.
That’s rural route cred. There are no streets in the northeastern frontiers of Jesusland.
I stand corrected. Rural route cred I got plenty of. I’m from Utah, after all, and even urbanites in Utah are rural. Because of the horse pasture at the end of the street. And because I bowled a 134 once.
Comment by JD on 4/29 @ 4:56 pm #
nishithead is rewriting history again
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/29 @ 4:58 pm #
By george I think I figured it out!
Nishi had e e cummings disease.
Comment by cynn on 4/29 @ 4:58 pm #
That’s what Obama gets for going to church in the first damn place.
Comment by Aldo on 4/29 @ 5:00 pm #
The President himself (herself) may be less important in the final analysis than the team he brings in with him to run the executive branch.
Those who are carrying the Obama camp’s water by calling Wright a distraction from more important issues are missing the significance that these things have in the mind of the average non-ideological voter: Obama seems to be surrounded by radicals and crackpots. How can a team like this even be trusted to make the trains run on time?
Comment by TmjUtah on 4/29 @ 5:05 pm #
Forgive me:
“Obama had plenty of opportunity to distance himself from this guy and didn’t do so until the guy went before an audience and reiterated to a general audience what he’d always been saying in the “black context†of the “black churchgoing experience.â€Â
What’s “until” mean, in this case?
I’ve watched Wright’s 9/11 sermon in toto. I’ve watched excerpts of four or five of his other sermons , and read the complete texts of at least five more…
…and, yes, I am possessed of a remarkable ability to not throw up, even in the face of overwhelming stimuli to do so…
… and my characterization of Jeremy Wright’s act as a reverse minstrel show still stands.
nish, what possible “timing” beyond the impetus of immediate necessity do you see at work here? This presser was in no conceivable aspect a carefully planned and brilliantly executed act of strategy.
The Hopey/Changey man has been accelerating toward the pavement for weeks, and Wright’s Press Club matinée actually turned up the gravity to a point that not even…*MUSIC*.. NPR could give him a pass.
Today we saw Obama was hacking the last fouled riser off his fouled main canopy, and praying the reserve fills before he becomes the candidate for really flat people…
nish, you seem to be admiring him for being charismatically and unabashedly disingenuous before anything else. It’s all I get. “Best Candidate”? For who? Fuckwits Against Bush, America, and Capitalism? The people he had to convince aren’t Excitable Andy or the editors of Time magazine. I will stipulate that in ‘92 everybody knew that Clinton was a congenital liar and he still won twice… but are we stupid enough as an electorate to repeat that kind of mistake?
Doesn’t anybody see what’s coming? And I agree with the above poster that the over riding tragedy really is the three options before us… but Obama doesn’t even belong in the B-roll for Big Brother tryouts. Not even close.
I can force myself to vote against Obama, whoever might be on the R side of the ticket. But if it’s Hillary, and McCain continues moving left to attract “moderates”, then people like me ultimately will stay home.
I’m not voting against Hillary if the alternative is the same thing but without a pant suit.
Oh, and my prediction for Hillary’s first act as president: twenty billion dollars to rebuild the burned out center of Denver.
Comment by Civilis on 4/29 @ 5:07 pm #
You forget, Nishi, that I read all these comments. Pournelle’s comments are nothing I haven’t said about the need for vocational education programs and the increasingly useless percentage of college applications, an opinion shared by regular PW commentators such as Carin, and they’re applicable whether or not the Bell Curve is psuedoscience. I paid attention to the debate on the subject when it came out, and my background in social science is enough that I know that judging whether or not the conclusions of a social science study are science or psuedoscience is almost impossible to determine.
In the previous thread, people were convinced that based on your acceptance as scientific gospel anything that fits your preconceived ideas as to how the world works regardless of empirical evidence, you would have held on to the political theories espoused by eugenicists had you been around in 1930, which is not the same thing as calling you a eugenecist, and is a defensible position based on your other opinions. Personally, I regard you as a potential eugenicist for your stance on Africa, which (to my reading) implied that you found acceptable the betterment of human society through allowing mass starvation.
With regard to modern advances in genetic engineering, the idea of eugenics is much more of a moral gray area than when it involved forced sterilizations, and your rapturous embrace of transhumanism certainly makes that comparison defensible (as well as that style of eugenics). But if we have to bear the stigma of The Handmaids Tale, you can’t blame us for dumping Brave New World on you. That’s the risks you take when you argue based on fiction. It’s fiction, a caricature of a caricature.
Curious and friendly question: have you ever read Neil Stephenson’s Diamond Age?
Comment by thor on 4/29 @ 5:07 pm #
It’s open season on messengers, ohnoes!
Twasn’t nishi, twasn’t thor, twasn’t nobody but the O-man who passed out the bruises.
O tore yall’s conspiracies up. What a press conference. The man swings good wood.
Comment by JD on 4/29 @ 5:09 pm #
nishithead is not a eugenecist. It is an advocate of genocide in africa. Get it straight.
Baracky proved today, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he is nothing other than a politician just like any other. It is kind of hard to balance his message of judgment, hopeyness and changiness with this.
Comment by Patrick on 4/29 @ 5:14 pm #
Curious and friendly question: have you ever read Neil Stephenson’s Diamond Age
Hasn’t everyone here?
Comment by Lisa on 4/29 @ 5:14 pm #
“even urbanites in Utah are rural.”
Ha ha! So true (has peeps in Utah).
Comment by TmjUtah on 4/29 @ 5:23 pm #
I have a back pasture for a yard, tis true.
Oh, and for dicentra: Howdy, neighbor!
Comment by Lisa on 4/29 @ 5:25 pm #
So my aunt emailed my mom that my cousins from Chicago haven’t been pompously inviting everyone to attend their Awesome Church Functions so much in the last months. I am thinking next time I visit or have a layover, they won’t ask me anymore either. I love them dearly, but I have never been a church-ish type and I never had any desire to take them up on their offer (I tend to start levitating, cursing, and throwing up green shit when I have to sit through a interminable sermon and fifty different hymns).
I might see the cuz’s this summer. We will see if they have switched over to some other church by then.
Comment by MC on 4/29 @ 5:35 pm #
Obama soon will have to denounce himself. There’s video you know…
Comment by JD on 4/29 @ 5:36 pm #
TMJ and Lisa - O’Shuck’s in Park City has the greatest cheeseburgers on the planet.
I am not sure if Lisa complimented me, or insulted me, in French on another thread. Either way, it sounded like an insult. ;-)
Comment by TmjUtah on 4/29 @ 5:46 pm #
JD -
Never been to Dick’s Drive In in Kamas, have you then?
Comment by JD on 4/29 @ 5:56 pm #
TMJ - I shall add that to my itenerary next time. It is a colossal challenge to beat the atmosphere at Shuck’s though. Locals, tourists, Norwegian bikini models, celebs all jammed in an area smaller than most basements, and about an inch of stale beer and spilled Jaegermeister and Apple Korn on the floor.
Comment by TmjUtah on 4/29 @ 6:13 pm #
Bikini models? I say “pfft” in your general direction.
From the back lot at Dick’s you can see next week’s cheeseburger. Now that’s organic.
Comment by ironpacker on 4/29 @ 6:22 pm #
It will be a bitter pill for the Obamatons to swallow when they realize that their Messiah is just a not ready for prime time Chicago Machine hack.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 6:42 pm #
Civilis, carin was raggin on me for the 40%.
I didn’t say that.
pournelle did.
it always works out like this…you guyz spin, and i hafta go retrieve the linkage, and u say i took it out of context.
spinspinspin.
Lisa im tellin u that mccain is toast if jeffie doesn’t help his campaign.
look, those dufuses spent 500,000 on anti-Obama commercials linkin O to wright, and now all the 527s have to do is make cheap 30sec spots showing O repudiating wright.
neutralized.
Comment by Patrick Carroll on 4/29 @ 6:45 pm #
Has anyone contaced Roland Martin or Soledad O’Brien for a comment? I got the impression they thought Wright’s comments were pure gold, and totally comprehensible, *in* *context*.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 6:54 pm #
Wright’s not neutralized cause Obama could no more disown him than his bigot white grandma. Wright will linger cause Baracky’s got no record what gives him the benefit of the doubt. Ohnoes from the very beginning I said don’t kill Saddam Hussein cause I said there would be chickens. Oh wait. I just meant I thought it was a bad idea I mean. Haha. Oh hey let’s hate on rich people. No no not greedy rich white people I just mean the generic nonspecific ones. Ha. I’m a gonna be pezzydent don’tcha know.
Comment by B Moe on 4/29 @ 6:58 pm #
I don’t have much faith in the intelligence of the electorate.
honestly, do you?
Do you all realize nishi is basically arguing that Obama is going to get elected because his supporters are idiots, while she is supporting him?
they called me a eugenicist for the bell curve stuff and the 40%.
that is all dr. pournelle.
Stop lying nishi, it has been explained to you repeatedly what the point was. You are crossing a big line now with these blatent lies.
ivilis, carin was raggin on me for the 40%.
Carin didn’t bring up eugenics. Grow up or go away, we have enough illiterate lying trolls already.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 6:58 pm #
There’s no getting away from the very real facty fact that so far in this long long campaign Reverend Jeremiah Wright has been the most insightful lens on who this Baracky fella and his skeezey wife are.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 7:04 pm #
pfft
i may be many things but illiterate is not one of them.
as proof, did anyone but jeffie get my caliban on setbeos reference?
didn’t think so.
Comment by B Moe on 4/29 @ 7:05 pm #
i may be many things but illiterate is not one of them.
Then you are intentionally misrepresenting our arguments. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 7:06 pm #
feets, only you guyz will see it.
everyone else will see the moving video clips of O renouncing wright.
O is a wonderful actor.
Pingback by It’s a bus-throwing contest on 4/29 @ 7:06 pm #
[...] threw Wright under the bus, Wright did it back at him over the weekend, and now Obama’s done it again. I want extra butter on my popcorn, [...]
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 7:07 pm #
also O is very telegenic.
Comment by HPennypacker on 4/29 @ 7:14 pm #
“blatent”
Dude, buy a spell check program. When slandering others, correct spelling only adds power to the slander. Having a powerless slander makes you Collins-esque (the next step is googling your exes). Don’t be a Collins, Mr. Moe.
Comment by B Moe on 4/29 @ 7:21 pm #
Penny packer indeed. Let me know if you bring something worthwhile.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 7:23 pm #
Baracky is very telegenic, but in a very telegenic way. It’s like how it’s an act of God though to move from soaps to prime. Baracky’s stuck in the role he was born to play. Dupe. Victim. Inspirational speaker.
Comment by alppuccino on 4/29 @ 7:25 pm #
I think God sent Obama as an IQ test.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 7:26 pm #
You can get all the tapes for just $19.99 but if you call know you can also get this book of inspirational Baracky quotations, including highlights of his famous Second Gettysburg address. Grandma! Geraldine! Hope! Change! All your favorites in one package!
Comment by Dan Collins on 4/29 @ 7:27 pm #
Want to know what kind of person hpinnypecker is? This kind:
He’s the kind of guy who gets bent that he wasn’t asked how excellent his duck and oysters were.
Comment by TmjUtah on 4/29 @ 7:27 pm #
Well, when Obama does condescend to answer “on substance” on any issue, the delivery (if not pre-scripted and devoid of any real substance) is indistinguishable from the action of a sleep deprived, unshaven, scared crapless rifleman leaning around a building corner to take a shot at the machine gunner down the street.
The junior senator peeks and pops on ANY question of substance. His entire political CV is an exhibit on how to win by being a brand but not a product. The metaphor I presented - attacking danger from risky cover - makes perfect sense if you accept that this man (shucks, this couple, as well as their fellow travelers on the BLT turnpike) believes that before anything else, he is a victim of oppression, grossly unfair and deviously subtle oppression, and that the oppression is rooted, first, last, and always, on skin. The victimhood is HIS… and he isn’t invested in any honest campaign because his whole existence is based on the acceptance that he’s running against a fixed game that can only be won by the player who plays it hardest, and to the hilt.
But he always acts as if he’s behind… ‘cos of the skin thing. A large portion of MSM and the Liberal elite are more than happy to keep whispering warnings in his ear, too, to keep him on the True Path. How fucking sad is that?
Am I wrong?
What else explains his burning ambition for power, absent any real agenda? Absent any substance? Absent any moment in his political past that could be pointed at as remotely transcendent over a failed status quo… anything at all?
He put a sweet move on the lady whose state senate seat he sought. He reports bucket loads of Benjamins in small - donor contributions. He’s got womyns and Andy Sullivan tossing undies or fainting at his events. He has reduced the pivot of his post 9/11 senatorial policy on whether or not his flag lapel pin, either by its wearing, existence, or unexplained absence, defines “patriotism”. He’s voted “not present” more often than “aye” or “nay” since he’s been in elective office.
And he’s got somewhere near half the Democratic faithful in the palm of his hand… which translates to millions of people less than it will take to actually win the election. But if he’s not even nominated, that’s more than enough to make the Republican’s self-induced destruction look like a game of charades at the Senior Center.
Comment by alppuccino on 4/29 @ 7:27 pm #
Does he do the voices?
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 7:30 pm #
How did I do that? *Now* is what I meant. Call *now* cause supplies are limited.
Comment by Pablo on 4/29 @ 7:30 pm #
Poor penny is having a bad day, methinks. Preznit Omaba is fizzling on him.
Yeah, I know I spelled it wrong. And…?
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 7:32 pm #
Oh but also that was neat what you did with Mr. Derb I thought except I don’t think I have the whole backstory yet.
Comment by Pablo on 4/29 @ 7:35 pm #
I for one cannot wait to here Rev Otis Moss’ sermon on Sunday. They still televising those things?
Comment by Karl on 4/29 @ 7:42 pm #
that would be setebos
i namechecked the krell upthread
someone missed that
Comment by thor on 4/29 @ 7:46 pm #
America’s favorite son deflowered weeping Hillary, neutered Silky Pony and took a switch blade to his own preacher man.
Been a fun ride so far.
O!
Comment by guinsPen on 4/29 @ 7:51 pm #
No, A-Go.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 7:54 pm #
We now have a black church for real though. That’s Baracky’s church is what I heard. There seems to be some disagreement what it’s all about though. What did you hear?
Comment by Civilis on 4/29 @ 7:58 pm #
Back to Brack Obomba. Nishi seems to think that Brack can deflect criticism regarding Wright by repeating his feeble denunciation. I think Hillary isn’t going to let go, and this now means that she can demand Brack denounce other longtime supporters, which both divides his base and further weakens his credibility. I also think that ads showing Brack repudiating Wright will only keep the issue alive, further hurting Brack with non-black blue collar voters.
Here’s Nishi’s Link BTW, we’re not arguing with Pournelle. We’re arguing with your interpretation of Pournelle’s essay. Appeals to authority won’t cut it. If you want to have a chance of salvaging your side of the debate, tell us in your own words what the significance of your 40% and what’s Brack’s plans for them, because that’s what we’re arguing, and it’s not in Pournelle’s essay.
Comment by Carin BA, MD, PhD on 4/29 @ 7:59 pm #
ivilis, carin was raggin on me for the 40%.
Carin didn’t bring up eugenics. Grow up or go away, we have enough illiterate lying trolls already.
The 40% was in regards to those stupid, drooling, retards who are unable to dress themselves w/o the help of the government. Right? O’s gonna help ‘em, according to you. I never mentioned eugenics.
Plus, when you QUOTE someone, doesn’t that suggest, unless you otherwise note, that you are presenting the argument because you SUPPORT it? It is a springboard from which you are making an point? Otherwise, I think it’s time they took away the “cut and paste” key on your keyboard.
Comment by donald on 4/29 @ 8:00 pm #
This ole Obama/Wright is some quality entertainment.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 8:01 pm #
Oh I heard Baracky went there for twenty years cause - remember that book about Hope something? Yeah. That’s from what his pastor said. The one what he hates now. I saw him on the MSNBC he seemed real nice. They was talkin about how he was a very reasonable person what done a lot of good. I dunno what Baracky’s problem with him is exactly. It’s like how them Millers just up and left the church remember that? No one ever did say why but she’s at the First Methodist now and he’s going out to that country church out by Wankerville.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/29 @ 8:03 pm #
“Comment by alppuccino on 4/29 @ 7:25 pm #
I think God sent Obama as an IQ test.”
Nishi failed.
Her condition, you know.
Comment by thor on 4/29 @ 8:06 pm #
I’m settin’ here watching the NBA playoffs. I’ve a 8-pack of mini-Kit Kat bars and a bag of Maui onion potato chips that I’m alternately munching on. After sucking on my teeth makes me think milk chocolate coated potato chips could be the next bit thing in salty snacks. Cheetos, Funyuns, Sun Chips, why not Choco-chips?
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 8:07 pm #
You tellin me he hates his preacher? That’s just highly irregular. I mean if you don’t like your preacher you can just stay home come Sunday. I don’t think you need to be denouncing a man of God all public like. That’s hubris is what that is. Look it up cause that’s exactly what it is.
Comment by thor on 4/29 @ 8:17 pm #
Sorry, not only am I sucking my teeth, I’m licking my fingers, which makes it hard to type.
Chocolate smothered onion chips are a hybrid delicacy yet discovered. What else is there to talk about now that Obama as crypto-Marxist-Black-Liberationist turned out to be a hoax?
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 8:20 pm #
I heard they planned it all along. That’s what Mystelle said when I run into her at the HEB. Yeah but you know all them and their conspiracy theories.
Comment by Dan Collins on 4/29 @ 8:20 pm #
thor, does it distress you at all that it took so long for Obama to figure out what an asswipe this guy is?
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 8:21 pm #
You should get down there cause they practically giving away strawberries.
Comment by JHoward on 4/29 @ 8:32 pm #
Given this admission, I have to say that I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone so consistently, overtly gleeful at the depths of willful, publicized mendacity.
How long did it take you to develop that pathology, nishi? You don’t say.
Comment by guinsPen on 4/29 @ 8:37 pm #
O = Ozawa.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/29 @ 8:38 pm #
“What else is there to talk about now that Obama as crypto-Marxist-Black-Liberationist turned out to be a hoax?”
‘We have always been at war with Oceana!’
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/29 @ 8:39 pm #
“How long did it take you to develop that pathology, nishi? You don’t say.”
See my #124
Comment by cynn on 4/29 @ 8:42 pm #
Obama really struggled and sputtered in his presser. He’s stuck in the dream where you stand naked on the corner. The only obvious option is to reatreat ASAP. It would take an Abbie Hoffman to kick your way through the outrage.
Comment by B Moe on 4/29 @ 8:52 pm #
He’s stuck in the dream where you stand naked on the corner.
Atta girl, cynn! Between you and Lisa, we may come up with a respectable opposition voice here yet.
Comment by Christopher Taylor on 4/29 @ 8:55 pm #
It takes some grade A willful blindness to figure Obama’s ties to Wright are severed by claiming awkwardly in a press conference that he’s not who you thought he was. Then again, if you’re really inclined to believe someone to begin with, you don’t really care what they say, you’re nodding before he even speaks.
It’s a fascinating thing in politics, something I really wonder about. How bad does your guy have to be before you stop saying “at least he’s better than [insert enemy party here]!” I wonder? Is there any point for most voters? Is there any point at which an Obama supporter or a McCain supporter would say “OK that’s it, no vote from me” or is that unthinkable?
McCain’s most fervent supporters tend to argue “he’s better than the Democrats” in a low murmur, how bad does he have to be to make people stop saying that? Is it even possible?
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 8:57 pm #
McCain is better than Baracky and McCain is a butt weasel.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/29 @ 8:59 pm #
hehe, very good karl
u hav potential
now wat was the two word tag i gave jeffie to link caliban?
hmm..i don’t care i guess carin. i got a link from the Derb and from dr pournelle.
more important, they discuss what i want to hear.
did you read the Derb on Expelled?
Blood Libel
dr pournelle is going to discuss the Bell Curve this week.
it is tru that i linked O’s bittergate comments to the decline of religion and the rise of the welfare state.
but it was the Bell Curve and the 40% that drew your ire.
but i believe like dr pournelle. we do not think of the 40% as drooling igjits like u accuse.
they are citizens who deserve respect and decent jobs.
but the Derb mocked ppl just like you…..everyone a lawyer! PhDs all around! not possible.
that is dr pournelle…it will be a good discussion i think.
Comment by TmjUtah on 4/29 @ 9:02 pm #
cynn -
There is no retreat. If he’s not a victim, reaching out to other victims, what is he supposed to be trying to accomplish?
He has been free to pursue “happiness” in whatever form he chooses to define the quality, within the bounds of applicable law, his entire life. Free. No slavery. No state-sanctioned discrimination (against him, at least) after 1964. Free to fly or fall, just like the next Joe on the street.
Any Joe. Or any Jane.
Kinda makes it hard to crusade, doesn’t it? I mean, if he admits to anything remotely like that it will be a repudiation of core priniciples… you might as well expect him to call a press conference to reject his spiritual mentor, or perhaps his most important political supporter. That would be a level of cynical hypocrisy that only the most willfully deluded minion could applaud, wouldn’t it?
Get real, now.
Comment by B Moe on 4/29 @ 9:08 pm #
more important, they discuss what i want to hear.
People telling you what you want to hear is not a discussion, fool.
Comment by thor on 4/29 @ 9:10 pm #
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 9:17 pm #
One man’s journey. One man’s struggle. One man’s choice. Baracky returns to Guiding Light this Wednesday. Be there after Price Is Right.
check local listings
Comment by JHoward on 4/29 @ 9:24 pm #
But genius runs the constant hazard of boredom, B Moe.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/29 @ 9:25 pm #
“…but if the Republic is divided between “citizens†and taxpayers, the result is inevitable.”
Jerry covered this in the Sparta trilogy.
You have no clue what he’s talking about, nishi.
Comment by geoffb on 4/29 @ 9:27 pm #
There has been talk that Obama is the McGovern of 2008. That seems to make Wright his Eagleton.
Now will Wright also give the press the 2008 version of “amnesty, abortion and legalization of pot”? On the QT of course.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 9:31 pm #
I don’t think McGovern was this flat-out trashy though. Dragging the country into all this personal drama that he should have had a handle on before getting some idea in his head he needed to be president.
Comment by B Moe on 4/29 @ 9:32 pm #
that is dr pournelle…it will be a good discussion i think.
I found some other good discussions by Dr. Pournelle you might want to check out:
http://proteinwisdom.com/pub/?p=925
Comment by TmjUtah on 4/29 @ 9:37 pm #
“It wasn’t an easy for him today to denounce a man he once looked up to, but he did so unequivocally.”
*crickets*
thor, it wasn’t you he needed to convince.
Comment by Darleen on 4/29 @ 9:45 pm #
Barack Obama a genuinely nice man
Cool, we could sit together and sip tea. I’m all for pleasant and quiet conversation.
But he’s just not someone I feel comfortable having my back in an emergency situation. I fear he’d fold like a cheap cardboard box in a soft spring rain.
Comment by thor on 4/29 @ 9:45 pm #
Good point, TmJ. But is there really any convincing you *typical* people that Obama is anything other than a hope-changey-empty-suiter?
He tolerated his Mom for 40+ years so Obama probably developed a high tolerance for persons we might consider nutters.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 9:49 pm #
They have no clues and they wanna get warmer
But thor won’t turn informer
Comment by Slartibartfast on 4/29 @ 9:53 pm #
Comment by ThomasD on 4/29 @ 9:54 pm #
He’s tolerated his wife for years so Obama probably developed a high tolerance for persons we might consider nutters.
Fixed that for ya.
Comment by geoffb on 4/29 @ 9:54 pm #
Yeah, then it was Eagleton who should have never have accepted the VP nomination. But McGovern first nominating him, saying he was behind him 1000%, then dropping him all in the space of 2 weeks was a wonder back then.
That was the first election I could vote. Young and dumb, those were the days.
Obama like Kerry figured the press had his back and nothing bad from his past would ever get past the “whispers in the night” type of thing. Worked for a while. Worked for Kerry for a while too.
Comment by thor on 4/29 @ 9:56 pm #
Yeah, well, Darleen, in an emergency I think he’d let fly a straight right. Any man who had to look down the barrel of long odds Barack had to look down, and, yet, still make things happen his way, ain’t no wuss. Delusions to the contrary contradict reality. Nobody gave that man nothing, a chance to be President least of all.
Comment by Rick Ballard on 4/29 @ 9:58 pm #
“I fear he’d fold like a cheap cardboard box in a soft spring rain.
There is absolutely nothing on his matchbook cover resume that would suggest that he would do that well. He’s a dandelion in full blossom with a breeze coming on.
Comment by B Moe on 4/29 @ 9:59 pm #
But is there really any convincing you *typical* people that Obama is anything other than a hope-changey-empty-suiter?
Acting like he has a white side of his family would have impressed me. It’s a little late for that now.
Comment by B Moe on 4/29 @ 10:03 pm #
Any man who had to look down the barrel of long odds Barack had to look down, and, yet, still make things happen his way, ain’t no wuss. Delusions to the contrary contradict reality. Nobody gave that man nothing, a chance to be President least of all.
Jesus Fucking Christ, thor, will you get your head out from between his legs for a minute and look around? He was raised by white bankers in a downtown Honolulu highrise, where he went to a private school. He then got an Ivy League law degree, and I ain’t seen shit about him having to work his way through college. He is a fucking Kennedy with a tan. Get that horseshit out of here.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 10:05 pm #
That’s the real post-mortem work what needs doing, geoff. The press did a lot have his back. NPR became BLT apologia radio for weeks in a highly choreographed pas de deux with Baracky’s campaign. Now they look kinda stupider than ever. That poor senile old man went from extolling Jeremiah as “a true patriot” to … something vaguely denunciatory but mostly chagrined incoherence. Poor old man.
Comment by thor on 4/29 @ 10:08 pm #
I’ll vote for McCain, unless he dies before the general. But Obama is an impressive individual, good character, nice teeth, all that.
Comment by JD on 4/29 @ 10:09 pm #
I know this much, with Granny and the good Reverend doing their speed bump impersonations. if I were one of Baracky’s friends or advisors, I would be looking over my shoulder.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/29 @ 10:09 pm #
I bet he does a fierce blue steel too.
Comment by thor on 4/29 @ 10:16 pm #
Shit, you think it was easy being a big-eared monkey-looking kid with no Daddy and a crazy white Momma in Hawaii? Then he goes into the Southside of Chicongo with nothing more that a tune in his pocket that goes something like this, “No, really, I’m black too. I am, seriously.”
Yeah, he’s had it easy being smart, broke and half-black with a mediocre jump shot.
Pingback by Baracky's Me Caca Movement on 4/29 @ 10:22 pm #
[...] by a comment on, you guessed it, Protein Wisdom. #47Comment by LiveFromFortLivingRoom on 4/29 @ 2:27 pm [...]
Comment by geoffb on 4/29 @ 10:22 pm #
Agree, as in 2004 the MSM are going to once again be the losers.
Comment by Darleen on 4/29 @ 10:28 pm #
Any man who had to look down the barrel of long odds
OMIGAWD!!! odds!!! Long ones at that!!!
OH THE HORROR!!11!!
Comment by Jeremiah Wright on 4/29 @ 10:30 pm #
Ladies and Gentlemen, Let’s Get Ready to RUMBLE….
Comment by thor on 4/29 @ 10:43 pm #
The faint sounds of the Bitter clinging and the gnashing of molars echo through the valley.
Comment by Merovign on 4/29 @ 11:05 pm #
You know, I’ve noticed about Turing machines (like Nishi) that they tend to get stuck and need a reset.
Like Pandora Radio, you know, you’ll be grooving along to some trip-hop and suddenly - Rage against Your Allowance comes screaming in. WTF?
Somebody reset Nishi, it’s stuck on stupid.
Comment by Sean M. on 4/30 @ 2:59 am #
RRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAACISSSSTTTT!!!1!11!one!eleven!!
(You know that if a non-Barack-supporter even thought something like that, there’d be a shitstorm. But thor’s cool ‘cuz he’s down with teh hopey changeyness.)
Comment by Civilis on 4/30 @ 4:59 am #
Speaking of blood libel…
It’s a term I haven’t heard thrown around very much recently, but isn’t that what Wright’s remarks are? I’m glad some people aren’t afraid to call him out for what he is, a hateful bigot.
Comment by Carin- on 4/30 @ 5:01 am #
we do not think of the 40% as drooling igjits like u accuse.
they are citizens who deserve respect and decent jobs.
but the Derb mocked ppl just like you…..everyone a lawyer! PhDs all around! not possible.
You think that they are unable to find jobs, right? Unable to support themselves. You know,I think people DO reach that condition when the government steps in. I will give you that there will always be a percentage that needs a helping hand. But, not 40%. And it doesn’t have to do with a lower 40% of the bell curve.
A Republic has no choice: it must be structured so that the vast majority of the citizens are valuable: that they be able to support their families, and that they feel they are valuable to the Republic. They may have some deference to intellectuals and leaders, as the Continental Army did to General Washington, and indeed must have; but if the Republic is divided between “citizens†and taxpayers, the result is inevitable.
How about taxpayers and non-taxpayers? Reaching up to 50% really soon. Problematic. The conservatives may not have all the answers, but just about EVERY answer offered by liberals is wrong.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 5:24 am #
“And it doesn’t have to do with a lower 40% of the bell curve.”
we disagree then at a fundamental level then. to solve a problem one must first be able to formulate it.
and you disagree with dr. pournelle, who cites the Bell Curve as part of the problem.
B Moes, because i agree with one thing dr. pournelle says, that does not mean i am forced to agree with everything he writes. Like Jeffie, he sees no harm in IDT being taught in highschools. To me, an i have discussed this with dr. pournelle, it is most basically a waste of time to do that. IDT is the orthodoxy, ToE is the heresy that supplanted it. We don’t have time to go backwards. That is just how science rolls.
And besides, we will need that time for teaching nanotechnoloy and 11-dimensional string theory in highschools soon.
;)
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 5:29 am #
hehe, slart go seeeee.
the derb punked him, and then i outed him as a DI stooge.
the pajamafia deleted one comment of mine, and i forced them to put it back.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 5:31 am #
btw i have never delivered any asskickings here.
this is still Jeffies House.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 4/30 @ 5:33 am #
You’re so forceful.
I thought I’d already pointed that out.
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 5:38 am #
nishi, do you write to Pournelle in l33t, or do you actually act like an adult?
Comment by Carin- on 4/30 @ 5:40 am #
“And it doesn’t have to do with a lower 40% of the bell curve.â€Â
we disagree then at a fundamental level then. to solve a problem one must first be able to formulate it.
I’m not surprised. I know too many stupid people who are doing really well, and too many smart people teetering on the edge to believe that success in life is as simple as the bell curve. The very lower edge, yes- but that is really another issue. But not 40%.
Comment by Salt Lick on 4/30 @ 5:41 am #
I bet he does a fierce blue steel too.
No. I think he’s one of the one’s what blew himself up at the gasoline station.
Comment by datadave on 4/30 @ 5:50 am #
aw, jeez. I liked that Rev. Wright. He was quite fun to hear.
I know Obama’s playing towards the middle, but that’s armadildo territory.
Another one under the bus. You gotta get back on message, O-man. I guess my totally nonpartisan bet on McCain is getting too easy. Playing to the centrist middle and apologizing for past associations is always a mistake. It’d be better to play up my “War on the Middle Class” specter: gas prices are high due to the conspiracy of Bush/Cheney and if a certain Reverand says Aids might have been a conspiracy so what?,,,, he’s just a little excitable, but that’s not me (O speaking), I am for the Middle Class and affordable everything!! (and then talk about McCain’s health care plan…and how it’s throwing employer-based health care under the bus.
Now, Obama’s got to get back on message. Otherwise call me in 2010.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 4/30 @ 6:07 am #
Deliberate or accidental fuckage? Equally probable with dave.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/30 @ 6:34 am #
“…but if the Republic is divided between “citizens†and taxpayers, the result is inevitable.
How about taxpayers and non-taxpayers? Reaching up to 50% really soon. Problematic. The conservatives may not have all the answers, but just about EVERY answer offered by liberals is wrong.”
Like I said, Pournelle used this idea in the Prince of Sparta trilogy, and through a lot of his future history.
“Taxpayers” are the worker bees, the alleged middle class, who might be able to afford the occasional hamburger.
“Citizens” are the drones, the underclass supported by free vat grown meat and Value-Rite vodka.
Comment by B Moe on 4/30 @ 6:36 am #
ID was my minor point, nishi.
Quiz for everyone left here, fill in the blanks:
_____uses a simple method of argument: proof by repeated assertion, plus entirely ignoring what the other side says: instead he will tell you what he wants you to believe they said (if he bothers with the other side’s arguments at all). Then he asserts that anyone who believes that nonsense is an idiot not worth your attention, and all his opponents are ignorant buffoons at best, and more likely mendacious scam artists. To say he has no respect for the other side of the argument is a simple understatement of fact. Yet, for all that, the arguments don’t go away, which causes despair for _____
lulz pwnd
Comment by B Moe on 4/30 @ 6:41 am #
And as for the 40% business, I can’t tell what the fuck your point actually is, but I would ask if it is the Federal Governments role to provide them with jobs? If they do assume that role, wouldn’t the easiest thing be for one of the parties to just take money from the 40% of productive people on the right side and pay them to be professional voters? And since that is what is going on now, how is advocating more of the same- CHANGE!
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 6:43 am #
l33t, pablo
i yam wat i yam
dr pournelle is working on a post on the bell curve and education.
i’ll link it when it’s up.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 6:51 am #
no i don’t have a solution…neither does dr. pournelle.
but pretending the bell curve is pseudoscience or has no effect is not useful.
i just want to discuss potential solutions.
impossible to frame the problem when the initial conditions are denied.
dr. pournelle says the elite, the upper 50%, the righthand of the bell curve, are mostly oblivious.
my point was only that obama is cognizant of the problem, because his bittergate comments reveal that.
i don’t think he has a solution either, but at least he is capable of framing the problem.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 4/30 @ 6:58 am #
Potential solutions to what? The bell curve?
I’m guessing you want everyone to be above average.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 6:59 am #
here i lay out some jeffie bait.
;)
i gtg.
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 7:04 am #
And he responds to you?
Well, no. Unless what you yam is an affectation, then yes. But that isn’t much to aspire to.
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 7:07 am #
So, we’ve got 40% too dumb to live without intervention, and another 50% oblivious. It must be damned tough to be in that last 10%. What’s the IQ range there?
Comment by Carin BA, MD, PhD on 4/30 @ 7:08 am #
dr. pournelle says the elite, the upper 50%, the righthand of the bell curve, are mostly oblivious.
?my point was only that obama is cognizant of the problem, because his bittergate comments reveal that.
i don’t think he has a solution either, but at least he is capable of framing the problem.
See, that is the major difference between you and me. I don’t BELIEVE the above statement. Obama is a politician who needs votes. He will say whatever he needs to ( I CARE, it’s about CHANGE) but unless he’s actually laying out solutions, it’s BS. He’s not framing anything. I don’t believe the government can solve problems. OR create jobs. It only creates roadblocks.
The “UPPER” 40% (or those with a hard work ethic and tenacity) solve the problems for the less able by creating jobs. The governments ONLY job, as I see it, is to insure that the little guy isn’t be taken advantage of. And, we’ve got an overabundance of that, don’t we?
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 4/30 @ 7:30 am #
It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone that nishi is lying and/or clueless about Pournelle’s positions.
I read his site pretty regularly, and this is a common theme for him.
Stripped of nishi-speak, his argument is roughly this:
1) There’s a sizable proportion of the population that’s never going to become nuclear physicists or analyze Thomas Pynchon novels.
2) Unfortunately, our education system doesn’t recognize this, and assumes that everyone will go to college.
3) In previous generations, those folks could make a decent, middle-class living in industry. That’s no longer the case for many.
4) Unlike nishi, who spits on them, Pournelle views this vanishing middle class as the cornerstone of the Republic. In Pournelle’s view, the existence of this class is what prevents us from devolving into a noble/peasant two-class society.
5) Pournelle has some proposed solutions (which I don’t necessarily agree with), such as a tariff on imported goods (under the theory that this will make the price of American-made products more competitive). Unlike nishi, though, I’ve never seen Pournelle propose that poor people simply be allowed to starve as “unfit” (in fact, Pournelle is a devout Catholic, another of nishi’s favorite bugaboos).
In other words, the lying, illiterate child is at it again.
Is anyone surprised?
Comment by Slartibartfast on 4/30 @ 7:38 am #
Roughly 120 and up. There isn’t any top end, just a vanishing of probability as you go up in IQ range.
Comment by thor on 4/30 @ 7:38 am #
Obama, from kid on food stamps to a Harvard elitist empty-suiter.
He’s got girth. Get him the ball when he comes off a screen. He also got game.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 4/30 @ 7:40 am #
Surprised? No, not at all. A wanna-be authoritarian with the solution to all that ails us isn’t going to let a few bourgeois things such as honesty and accuracy get in her way. Not when she knows that the ends are so valuable the means can be anything.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/30 @ 7:41 am #
You never fucking bother to read what anyone says to you, do you?
THE PART OF THE BOOK “THE BELL CURVE” THAT’S CONSIDERED PSEUDO-SCIENCE IS THE RACE-BASED PART. THAT’S THE PART THAT WRIGHT WAS RE-STATING TO THE NAACP. THAT WAS THE PART CAPTAIN ED WAS DISCUSSING.
Geez, looking at the post Pablo linked to, I can only assume you’re suffering from some horrible degenerative disease of the mind. I’m so sorry; perhaps if you spent some time away from the Internet, possibly taking in the great outdoors, you may feel better.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/30 @ 7:47 am #
Food stamps are cool. You can get eggs and also pop tarts while you work on your PhD. Free!
Comment by Carin- on 4/30 @ 7:52 am #
When was he or his mom on food stamps? When he was in college, living with his rich grandparents?
Comment by happyfeet on 4/30 @ 8:07 am #
This arugula doesn’t look very fresh but hey… it’s free! Get two.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 4/30 @ 8:11 am #
This is who nishi is. This is what nishi does. Expecting her to exhibit any degree of reading comprehension at all is just boundless optimism.
I suspect dyslexia, frankly, because it might also serve to explain this left/right mixup that has nishi thinking she’s on the upper part of the IQ distribution.
Comment by thor on 4/30 @ 8:18 am #
On the stump, Sen. Obama has begun reminding audiences that his single mother was on food stamps, that he attended a private high school on a scholarship and that he paid off law-school student loans with his wife, Michelle, just six years ago. “I know what it’s like to see a mother get sick and worry that maybe she can’t pay the bills,” he said at a building-trade conference in Washington on Tuesday.
Obama probably knows his life better than bitter clingers that howl at the moon.
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 8:19 am #
It would be the 10% between the bottom 40% and the top 50%, so there should be a definable range. Which would matter if the premise of nishi’s argument weren’t utter bullshit, but alas, it doesn’t.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/30 @ 8:21 am #
Oh crap put that one back it’s not organic.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/30 @ 8:26 am #
“#Comment by happyfeet on 4/30 @ 7:47 am #
Food stamps are cool. You can get eggs and also pop tarts while you work on your PhD. Free!”
TANSTAAFL, hf, TANSTAAFL.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/30 @ 8:28 am #
TANSTAApesticide-FL. God damn America.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/30 @ 8:28 am #
“I suspect dyslexia, frankly, because it might also serve to explain this left/right mixup that has nishi thinking she’s on the upper part of the IQ distribution.”
I told you, she suffers from e. e. cummings disease.
Comment by Carin- on 4/30 @ 8:30 am #
private high school on a scholarship and that he paid off law-school student loans with his wife, Michelle, just six years ago. “I know what it’s like to see a mother get sick and worry that maybe she can’t pay the bills,†he said at a b
O can crying me a fucking river. I didn’t have a scholarship to an elite school or get accepted to Harvard. My husband and I JUST finished paying off my student loans. W/o the million dollar income.
Sorry, he doesn’t feel my pain.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 8:34 am #
It would be the 10% between the bottom 40% and the top 50%,
erm….no, pablo…it is the lefthand tail…umm..IQ
Comment by thor on 4/30 @ 8:45 am #
Write a book or two, run for the Senate and win, do these things and good things can come to you.
Obama jealousy earns no sympathy from me.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 4/30 @ 8:45 am #
Y’know, Hawking had an excuse, but even he managed to put complete points down on paper, or in pixels. For nishi to really have as poor communications skills as she exhibits, she’d have to be a brain in a jar, communicating through faulty orrelation algorithms that identify visualized patterns with letters of the alphabet.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 8:47 am #
the 10% is IQ
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 8:50 am #
sry, my comments are being truncated……the 10% is IQ
Comment by Aldo on 4/30 @ 8:52 am #
#97 I don’t have much faith in the intelligence of the electorate.
honestly, do you?
Now I understand what they mean when they talk about the politics of hope: They hope the voters are dumbasses.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 8:56 am #
okfine..the 10% is the lefthand tail, or IQ less than 70….functional retardation.
The Bell Curve is just a collection of statistics. You cannot choose the part you don’t like and call it pseudoscience.
Well…i guess you can….but it sure does make you look ignorant.
SBP, i agree with dr. pournelle on the bell curve, biofuels, education, immigration, and scifi.
i disagree with his advocation of teachin ID in highschools and his choice of presidential candidate.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/30 @ 8:57 am #
BY GEORGE, I THINK YOU’VE GOT IT!!!
She’s like one of those chimps that learns to “type” on a board marked with special symbols.
It also explains her claims about having such a high intelligence — yeah, for a chimp!
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/30 @ 8:59 am #
So you believe blacks are genetically disposed to be less intelligent than whites? That was one of the conclusions of the book, after all.
And, seriously, given your inability to comprehend what’s said here, I doubt you have any clue what Pournelle’s positions on ANYTHING are. I doubt you have any idea what ANYONE’S positions are.
Comment by Education Guy on 4/30 @ 9:00 am #
Late to the party. I expect that this speech comes too late to do Obama any real good. Coming at this late date it seems reactionary, almost something that Obama was forced to do to save his campaign. I think many voters will see it as a ploy to get people to shut up about his associations, and if they don’t Hillary will be sure to point it out to them.
I could be wrong, time will tell.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/30 @ 9:01 am #
At least 20 years too late.
Comment by Carin- on 4/30 @ 9:03 am #
Write a book or two, run for the Senate and win, do these things and good things can come to you.
Obama jealousy earns no sympathy from me.
I’m not jealous. I’m calling bullshit on his attempt to paint himself as a non-elitest. Intellectually, his entire life, he’s been surrounded by elitest. He saw the world. He lived in Hawaii. He went to a prep school (regardless of how it was paid for) and then went to Harvard.
Really, his “I just paid off my Harvard loans” just irks me. So. Fucking. What. Join the club.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 9:04 am #
i also agree that Sir Richard is an evangelical atheist, and that Dr. Cochran is a great guy.
;)
Comment by Carin- on 4/30 @ 9:05 am #
The Bell Curve is just a collection of statistics. You cannot choose the part you don’t like and call it pseudoscience.
So you believe blacks are genetically disposed to be less intelligent than whites? That was one of the conclusions of the book, after all.
Where’s Candy when we need her?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 9:12 am #
mean IQ of blacks is 85
mean IQ of non-hispanic caucs is 100
mean IQ of asians is 103
mean IQ of ashkenazai jews is 125 (dr. cochran’s work actually, too recent for the bell curve book)
it is just data.
certainly there are environmental components like nutrition and schooling.
phenotype is always an interaction of genotype and the environment.
genotype is a component, true.
Comment by JD on 4/30 @ 9:16 am #
nishi should just concentrate on advocating genocide in Africa.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 9:17 am #
oh..i also agree with dr. pournelle on globalwarming.
;)
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 9:20 am #
JD, i never advocated genocide in Africa…i just said we should handed our birthcontrol pills and condoms with rice and beans. unless…..you think birth control is genocide? like the ppl that sueing Planned Parenthood?
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 9:20 am #
No, that’s your problematic 40% over there. And then we have…
So, the 10% I’m referring to are the remainder, those not in the lower 40% nor in the upper 50%. What is the IQ range of those overburdened bastards? Not bright enough to be oblivious and yet not so dumb as to be utterly reliant. Who are these people?
You’re supposed to be the mathematician. Try to keep up w/ the numbers, won’t you?
Comment by JD on 4/30 @ 9:22 am #
nishithead is conveniently rewriting history again.
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 9:22 am #
You decried aid efforts aimed at preventing starvation and death by disease as counterproductive and a source of roosting chickens.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 9:26 am #
and one thing you said about me is true…i would like to skew the IQ distribution to the righthand side so that it is not a bell curve anymore.
but possibly we can do nearly all of that with environment.
however, if we pretend there are no genotypical differences…we have no way of finding which environment components are the most efficient at boosting IQ.
doomed before we start.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 4/30 @ 9:26 am #
#266 Carin
It doesn’t matter if he went to Harvard law school and you didn’t. He is still the oppressed and you are the oppressor because of white skin privilige. Don’t ever forget that.
And thor’s just concerned that he fell for Obama early and bought the stock without doing any due-diligence. Now that the background and beliefs that make normal sane people question Sen. Obama’s judgment are out in the light of day, thor runs around trying to keep people from asking those questions. Denial on a big scale, because if he accepts that this shows poor judgment and raises legitimate questions about sen. Obama’s fitness for the presidency, well that raises questions about thor’s own judgment and smarts; and since he’s already run around saying how smart he is, that would be a bad thing.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/30 @ 9:27 am #
Can someone link the dr. pournelle on globalwarming part?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 9:29 am #
no pablo..the 10% dr. pournelle and i refer to are the tail of the bell curve on the left side.
at less than 70 IQ those individuals are functionally retarded and need care and protection.
they are not capable of self sufficiency in society.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 9:32 am #
feets, browse his site.
dr. pournelle is a mighty warrior against globalwarming junkscience.
he say global warming only serve to enrich al gore.
;)
welcome to chaos manor
Comment by Carin- on 4/30 @ 9:33 am #
So, the “lower 40%” percent figure wasn’t complete, because it left out the very bottom 10%? So, when you’re talking TOTAL population that need government intervention of one sort or anothter, you’re talking about 50% of the TOTAL population? Everyone below the 50% mark? 40 % of them can be employed somehow and the remaining 10 are just useless?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 9:35 am #
i will beg too….if you can, subscribe to chaos manor.
be dr. pournelle’s angels.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 4/30 @ 9:35 am #
however, if we pretend there are no genotypical differences…we have no way of finding which environment components are the most efficient at boosting IQ.
doomed before we start.
So nishwit believes in genotypical differences between humans when it comes to intelligence, despite the fact that most human stock has been mixed up pretty good over the past few millenia of invasions and conquests. In fact she has even begged the question by assuming there are genotypical differences between human groups when it comes to intelligence.
Not that certain traits may be hereditary in an individual’s inherited genetics, but in a larger pool such as an ethnic group, that something such as ‘intelligence’ is greater in one ethnic group than in another.
And she has no idea where the heck anyone got the idea that she was a eugenist. My mind boggles, but that’s only because I have one. When are you going to make your New Soviet Man, nish-wit?
Comment by Education Guy on 4/30 @ 9:36 am #
however, if we pretend there are no genotypical differences…we have no way of finding which environment components are the most efficient at boosting IQ.
You have an even bigger problem if you are willing to buy into this. If there truly are differences in mental capability among the races, then using the same test for all of them isn’t necessarily showing you what you think it is. Further, if this is all true, then even the methods for “improving” the left side would need to be different for each of the “races”.
This is a rabbit hole that doesn’t lead to good places.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 4/30 @ 9:37 am #
dr. pournelle is a mighty warrior against globalwarming junkscience.
Yes, he is.
He’s also a practicing Catholic, and concerned with the plight of the “left side of the bell curve”.
You, on the other hand, are an illiterate, dysfunctional child.
Poseur.
Fraud.
Liar.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 4/30 @ 9:38 am #
JD, i never advocated genocide in Africa
Poseur.
Fraud.
Liar.
Comment by Carin- on 4/30 @ 9:39 am #
however, if we pretend there are no genotypical differences…we have no way of finding which environment components are the most efficient at boosting IQ.
doomed before we start.
It isn’t a mystery, nishi. Don’t do drugs when your pregnant.Don’t prop your baby in front of a tv. Limit the video games. Take your kids outside, and to a variety of environments. Talk to them. Guide them. SUPERVISE them. For every segment of underperforming school children, I’ll bet you find that they break a whole bunch of these rules.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 9:39 am #
no carin…the jobs that employed the 40%, lets say the non-lawyer-jobs, those jobs are going overseas.
the discussion at chaos manor is how to replace those jobs.
dr. pournelles position is that the elites don’t even see the 40% in the fareed article.
and the candidates pander for votes, offering “bread and circuses”.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 4/30 @ 9:40 am #
SBP, i agree with dr. pournelle
Which one? The real one, or the one you’ve concocted lies about?
Poseur.
Fraud.
Liar.
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 9:42 am #
Thing is, I’m referring to a different 10%, the one I described above that is NOT included in either your 40% or your 50%. They’re not big numbers, nishi. I’m sure you can suss it out. And leave Pournelle out of it. Make the fucking argument, without appeal to authority.
Comment by Carin- on 4/30 @ 9:43 am #
And, that 40% comes from what segment of the bell curve?
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 4/30 @ 9:45 am #
Make the fucking argument, without appeal to authority.
Especially when she’s lying about the position of said authority.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 9:47 am #
feets please subscribe to chaos manor if u can afford the 20.
i have a secret reason for wanting u too.
;)
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 9:53 am #
carin, less than 50% and more than 10%. the lefthand side of the standard or gaussian distribution represented by the bell curve.
i’d like to change that to a poisson distribution, where 75% of the area under the curve is over say 100 IQ.
im sry this isn’t productive.
why don’t you read Chaos Manor yourbigselves?
you don’t need me.
my UI sux anyways, u allus tell me.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/30 @ 9:53 am #
“no carin…the jobs that employed the 40%, lets say the non-lawyer-jobs, those jobs are going overseas.
the discussion at chaos manor is how to replace those jobs”
Oh, for fucks sake you moron, unemployment is at 5%, and that’s with 12-20 million illegals in the country.
Those “idiots” you lavish your oh so caring attention on seem to be doing a pretty good job of finding non-existent jobs.
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/30 @ 9:55 am #
“…i would like to skew the IQ distribution to the righthand side so that it is not a bell curve anymore.”
And THAT is so stupid it made my teeth ache.
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 4/30 @ 9:58 am #
Who knew that IQ’s could be skewed and redistributed like corn seeding rows or an Obama tax plan?
Whoops! I’ve said too much…
Comment by JHoward on 4/30 @ 10:06 am #
hehe, slart go seeeee.
the derb punked him, and then i outed him as a DI stooge.
the pajamafia deleted one comment of mine, and i forced them to put it back.
What you lack in smarts and integrity you more than make up for in ego. And shamelessness.
Be proud. Plus: I know I’m convinced. Well done.
Comment by JHoward on 4/30 @ 10:15 am #
;)
Yeah, sheer, shameless ego. Or perhaps resembling meglomania.
Sans the integrity.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 4/30 @ 10:17 am #
why don’t you read Chaos Manor yourbigselves?
I do read it.
That’s why I know you’re a clumsy, illiterate liar.
Not that anyone had any doubt about that already.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 4/30 @ 10:21 am #
#296
She can split atoms - with her mind!!!
Comment by happyfeet on 4/30 @ 10:22 am #
Hey. Ok. I just got to work but I will subscribe later … promise. Thanks for the link -
Comment by McGehee on 4/30 @ 11:07 am #
Let’s make the average IQ of everybody 151.
That way nishtoon gets an IQ of 100 when we realign the scores to restore their statistical value.
‘Cause the whole idea is that a score of 100 is … average.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 4/30 @ 11:07 am #
My comment at #242 seems appropriate to repeat:
Surprised? No, not at all. A wanna-be authoritarian with the solution to all that ails us isn’t going to let a few bourgeois things such as honesty and accuracy get in her way. Not when she knows that the ends are so valuable the means can be anything.
who is your hero, nish-wit? Stalin?
Comment by McGehee on 4/30 @ 11:08 am #
Or maybe nishtoon lives in Lake Wobegon, Minnesota.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 11:15 am #
who is your hero, nish-wit? Stalin?
today?
John Derbyshire
Comment by PalmettoTiger on 4/30 @ 11:28 am #
Quite a few horrible thing have been done in the name of science (as they have in the name of religion). Stein had a fair point there. Darwin did not cause the Holocaust. Folks pulling pieces of his theories to justify their own ends (much like liberation theology) did that.
PT
Comment by JHoward on 4/30 @ 11:38 am #
In order to inflate herself, nuggiesan’s method is probably to take things out of context. Sound and regular thrashings simply don’t dent such convictions. And: Derb’s inconsistency is legendary. Smart guy, and entertaining. But not possessing a sterling track record, as this instance shows.
And then there’s Larry Kudlow on economics. NRO can be pretty gastly.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 11:43 am #
Stein had a fair point there
disagree
this is what is happening, IMHO
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 11:44 am #
oh.that last bit was me, not Thiel.
;)
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 11:49 am #
here is
see, scientists embrace atheism cz they want to rule the world. btw, Berlinski is a DI stooge.
this attitude was prevelant during the schiavo controversy..the attempt to discredit scientists and doctors.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 11:50 am #
/sigh
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 11:50 am #
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-scientific-embrace-of-atheism/
Comment by JHoward on 4/30 @ 12:06 pm #
This is what is happening, IMHO: Since the effort to force secularism into high schools has been only somewhat unsuccessful and has not yet resulted in a solid, universal bloc of statist dependents, secular authoritarian establishmentarians must now discredit the competition and with it, a wide swath containing many competing philosophies, thus fabricating an irresistible, top-down, “monotheistic” policy against residual independence of thought.
It’s only by definition that we don’t have a state religion. Because judging by PC and all the virtually unavoidable statist enclaves it inhabits saturating the public and what were private sectors, surely we have a state philosophy.
If you want to tie your narrow view and argument to god vs atheism, nuggiesan, or god vs science, then the entire premise behind the equally narrow myopia of #309 comes down to semantics. As the Derb thread at PJM more than amply proves. You can’t define God, but you can as much as outlaw God…and pronounce it science. The irony is obvious.
Stein simply knows that as with all power bases, organized science needs to (1) maintain a consistent dogmatic core and (2) excommunicate heretics. Not unlike what Obama just did, he representing a significant leftist power bloc.
PhilosophÃÂa is a method. Naturally, the pursuit of wisdom is not limited to specific fields. Secular scientists isolating and controlling science for the sake of a presumptive secularism, which I believe is Stein’s premise, presents a contradiction in terms and a conflict of scientific interest.
Comment by PalmettoTiger on 4/30 @ 12:08 pm #
No, Nishi, come back to the topic. Has “in the name of science” ever been used as justification for acts ranging fromer “merely” unethical to inhuman?
All science and no philosophy leads to bad places.
PT
Comment by Education Guy on 4/30 @ 12:08 pm #
Derbyshire is an elitist ass. Also, evolution as the source of life isn’t science. But those who continue to demand it is are doing a fair impersonation of the Catholic Church during it’s “argument” on where the earth is in relation to the rest of the universe. You guys should be proud.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 4/30 @ 12:15 pm #
Which any nitwit with Google could see within a few seconds; why treat it as a major revelation?
Oh. Awkward silence time.
Comment by JHoward on 4/30 @ 12:21 pm #
To preempt…
…thereby maintaining that certain nuggiesan rhetorical leverage.
Comment by McGehee on 4/30 @ 12:29 pm #
topix r 4 moties! lulz!
Comment by Education Guy on 4/30 @ 12:36 pm #
Derb:
And now here is Ben Stein, sneering and scoffing at Darwin, a man who spent decades observing and pondering the natural world  that world Stein glimpses through the window of his automobile now and then, when he’s not chattering into his cell phone.
Darwin was better than Stein, so you shut up!
I’m currently reading “On the Origins of Inequality”, so my finger is already on the trigger when it comes to bold crazy assertions that must have been pulled from the ass. Derby conflates his opinion with fact, much as our beloved nishi does.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 12:41 pm #
Secular scientists isolating and controlling science
secular scientists for secular unis, dude.
you have have your own unis with..erm… religious scientists.
:) discuss it there.
you cannot make us include god in our curriculae.
so i suggest u just step on.
well slart i got there from instapundit.
i never dreamed he’d link dishonest DI scum.
i guess he is a theocon shill after all.
;)
Comment by Slartibartfast on 4/30 @ 12:42 pm #
Dumber than sand, more repetetive than surf.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 12:43 pm #
and Charles loathes IDT.
im shocked that DI scum got a platform at pjm.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 12:46 pm #
All science and no philosophy leads to bad places.
Lie.
science + bad philosophy leads to bad places.
All science leads us to good places, like CERN.
hehe
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 12:46 pm #
1. Charles in no longer with PJM, other than as a blogger.
2. I didn’t know that PJM was supposed to publish only views that fall into a particular lockstep. I don’t think Charles ever knew that either.
How many times has he banned you, anyway?
Comment by Education Guy on 4/30 @ 12:48 pm #
secular scientists for secular unis, dude.
you have have your own unis with..erm… religious scientists.
:) discuss it there.
Separate but equal!
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 12:49 pm #
Which unis are nishi’s again?
Comment by JHoward on 4/30 @ 12:51 pm #
Ah, an argument by status quo.
That only speaks to the monolithic statist academic establishment nuggiesan. And hence what I said about what is fast becoming unassailable secular philosophy and power in, for, and from the US government.
You don’t say; is that the status quo too? That being adjunct to and illustrative of the point, you vacuous little waste of time.
That you persistently argue against yourself here is amusing. That you can’t see it despite having your nose continually rubbed in it is probably cause to get some help, dear girl.
Comment by Education Guy on 4/30 @ 12:52 pm #
you cannot make us include god in our curriculae.
I’d be happy if you would just restrict the teaching of science to that which is, you know, actual science.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 12:53 pm #
How many times has he banned you, anyway?
8 i think. kos is at 6. cant keep up.
/grins
Separate but equal!
then why are you pestering us?
Comment by Education Guy on 4/30 @ 12:54 pm #
I keep pestering you nishi because Baseball is a great sport, and to prove it I’d like to point out how great Football is.
Comment by JHoward on 4/30 @ 12:55 pm #
An absolute statement from nuggiesan. Are you quite sure of this?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 12:55 pm #
why JHoward….are u suggesting…that christian universities like Oral Roberts and Brigham Young are somehow….inferior???????
/gasp
Comment by JHoward on 4/30 @ 12:58 pm #
no idiot not by yr mezure
them peeps not treated equally on many levels
/gasp
Comment by JHoward on 4/30 @ 12:59 pm #
u suggesting federalized unis superior nuggie?????????
Comment by JHoward on 4/30 @ 1:01 pm #
how state unis superior if teechin limited & xclusiv curriculae nuggie??????
by def state unis prevented teechin evrythng rite?????????
Comment by PalmettoTiger on 4/30 @ 1:05 pm #
Sadly, that was not the least bit cute or funny. Science without philosophical base, or perhaps a moral one, places no limits on what it will or will not do therefore it can very easily lead a person to unethical or immoral (or even inhuman) actions all in the name of “science.” You know, “Just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily follow that we should do a thing.”
There is little difference, IMHO of course, in bad philosophy being propped up by cherry picked science and using Christian teachings to prop up marxist teachers under the name of liberation theology.
And by the way, opinions are not lies. Knowing mistatements of facts are lies, Nishi. Please keep the distinction in mind for the future.
PT
Comment by JHoward on 4/30 @ 1:05 pm #
u mani yr own portanc nuggie
trust my peeps ease off
yr human maybe
lulz!
:)
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 1:06 pm #
secular ones pablo!
i shall give u advice.
if u want god taught at secular unis, give them an endowment for IDT, since it is fake/science religious instruction.
mebbe you can sneak that by the private unis.
otherwise the separation of church and state ensures that fed funds cant be used for religious instruction, so state unis are off limits i think.
and secular scientists just aren’t going to research IDT on their own dime, and no professor is goin to teach it, because the classroom is filled with paying students that need to learn other things.
Comment by MayBee on 4/30 @ 1:07 pm #
then why are you pestering us?
“us”
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 1:07 pm #
Notre Dame, Boston College, University of San Diego, Baylor, Pepperdine, Brown….
The evolutionists should be thrown out of all of them and go find their own unis, no?
Comment by JHoward on 4/30 @ 1:13 pm #
Pablo, the constitutional tension incumbent in a state university preventing free speech escapes nuggie.
Because of the holy unconflicting constitutional separation clause. Well, and the status quo.
lulz
:)
Comment by Education Guy on 4/30 @ 1:14 pm #
Anyone here want God taught on the taxpayer dime? I don’t, but I figure one of you all must be speaking in hidden code that only nishi can see. Then again, maybe she just needs to argue against phantoms. Like a rhetorical crutch.
Quick someone get nishi a closer parking space!
Comment by N. O'Brain on 4/30 @ 3:22 pm #
“science + bad philosophy leads to bad places.”
Al Gore.
Global Warming.
“Concensus.”
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 3:35 pm #
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the study of theologies part of basic anthropological work? Can one not go to just about any college in the country and learn about Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Sikhism, Rastafarianism, etc…? I really don’t have a problem with that. Should we come to the point of taxpayers being asked to fund the training of religious practitioners, that’s a different matter.
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 4/30 @ 3:38 pm #
Look, I’m a self confessed evangelical and don’t want any public school to be teaching Christian Doctrine to their students. Beyond the whole “Church Separation” thing I wouldn’t trust them to teach it either correctly or well.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 4/30 @ 4:01 pm #
I had a little black-out (can I say that?) from here for a bit. I think nish-wit would have made a good assistant to Albert Speer. It was just architecture and then organizing industrial production. What really was the big deal?
What’s wrong with telling poor people they can have aid only if they don’t have children? What’s the big deal?
What’s wrong with saying that intelligence is dependent on ethnic groups? What could go wrong? I’m only trying to make the world a better place. Why do you accuse me of being a eugenist, an authoritarian, an advocate for genocide?
What an evil little brillo-pad chucker.
Comment by BJTexs TW/BP on 4/30 @ 4:04 pm #
EUGENICS: THE OTHER WHITE MEAT!!!
Comment by Rob Crawford on 4/30 @ 4:09 pm #
She wants to live in Lake Woebegone!
Comment by B Moe on 4/30 @ 4:54 pm #
I would like to see some studies done on financial and commercial success versus intelligence. I don’t have anything handy, but some I have seen in the past didn’t show as direct a coorelation as the nishtoon seems to believe. Hard work and perserverance are more important than raw intelligence, and the path Obama is leading does not go in that direction.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 4/30 @ 5:03 pm #
Just to give the nishibot the benefit of a doubt, Rob, IQ distribution doesn’t actually have to form a bell curve. However, I don’t see much benefit to reshaping, assuming that’s even possible.
I’d guess that IQ isn’t truly Gaussian, anyway, because a Gaussian distribution implies miniscule probability of negative IQ.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 4/30 @ 5:27 pm #
I think the concept that really escapes the nish-wit is mercy.
Mercy separates humans from others, but she would remove mercy, or twist it into a satanic form. “I will not relieve your pain, but I will relieve you from this life. It is all the same thing, right?”
(From memory: “God showed you no mercy; and man did not.” P.D.W. Wimsey, Gaudy Night).
Authoritarian.
Eugenicist.
Genocidist.
That is the true Matoko. And she will never realize why she is loathed. Which, in a way, is a mercy.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 4/30 @ 5:58 pm #
P.D.B. Wimsey.
My pardon, Miss Sayers.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 4/30 @ 6:06 pm #
I’d guess that IQ isn’t truly Gaussian, anyway
It isn’t, actually.
because a Gaussian distribution implies miniscule probability of negative IQ
I offer you nishi as an existence proof.
Comment by JHoward on 4/30 @ 6:16 pm #
Because a mind is a terrible thing to weight.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 6:41 pm #
(1) maintain a consistent dogmatic core and (2) excommunicate heretics.
well here is the problem. ;)
IDT/creationism is the orthodoxy, ToE is the heresy.
you are seeking a return to the orthodoxy.
it would be like going back to flat-earth from geo-centrism.
What do you hope to accomplish by portrayin scientists as arrogant closeminded crushers of free inquiry?
hmm?
do you think we will suddenly open our minds to your antique theories?
i think….you are just expressing rage that we dont let IDT into real science classes,
……..and your rage that you can’t make us!
hehe
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 6:45 pm #
like i said……..use your christian unis.
send your kids there.
Comment by B Moe on 4/30 @ 6:50 pm #
Jesus Christ, I am in awe at the level of contradictions and unintended irony crammed into 356. That is amazing.
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 6:54 pm #
Me, I just like watching you flip the fuck out. And you are not “we”, no matter how much you’d like to be. I daresay that most of your authorities would be completely mortified at your use of them here.
The voices in your head are not a consensus.
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 6:55 pm #
Oh, Darwin would likely have you STFU too.
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 6:57 pm #
Make me, beeyotch. :-)
Comment by JHoward on 4/30 @ 7:13 pm #
Two things, nuggie, not that either will penetrate that sporty concrete brain bucket:
As it is, you argue at an impressively low level. Given that you must argue, typically pointlessly, you adopt that old tactic of simply inventing those lower than yourself with which to do so.
#356 exemplifies both of these phenomenon. To wit:
I don’t, liar.
What I hope is to somehow give you pause within which you’ll see that you invent your strawmen so as to insulate those certain individuals who are arrogant close-minded crushers of free inquiry from any sort of scrutiny equivalent to the hatred and intolerance you heap on anyone who you deem in disagreement with you.
You are the master of false dichotomies: Painting the world with stone age, mentally-defective ID’ers doesn’t, amazingly, vindicate the motives of all the world’s scientists. Sauces for both geese and ganders, nuggiesan. Get a fucking clue.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 4/30 @ 7:16 pm #
going back to flat-earth from geo-centrism
Yeah, we wouldn’t want to do that.
Idiot.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 4/30 @ 7:24 pm #
Authoritarian.
Eugenicist.
Genocidalist.
But it is all intended for the good.
Repeat, ad infinitum.
You are evil, nish-wit. Just Evil.
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 7:34 pm #
Don’t encourage her, Mikey.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 7:38 pm #
oh..i think there is a consensus.
;)
i can say “we”.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 7:40 pm #
Make me, beeyotch. :-)
its fine wid me if u send ‘em to secular unis.
but….beware! they may catch the secualrism virus.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 7:51 pm #
“who are arrogant close-minded crushers of free inquiry”
Howard, those scientists simply don’t exist.
Science don’t roll that way.
Science is the ultimate freemarket place of ideas.
You want to pretend that is what is keeping IDT out of science classrooms, but that ain’t it.
If it was a better model we would adopt it.
Here’s what is happening…you are very bad salesmen that are trying to force us to buy last years model when we already have this years model for free.
;)
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 7:55 pm #
frankly, i think the PW commenters have turned into a mob with pitchforks and torches.
wanna burn me at the stake?
have you thought that calling me and dr. pournelle eugenicists for citing the bell curve is analogous to stein saying Darwin caused the Holocaust?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 7:57 pm #
this is why
Reason: Bill Joy, the former chief scientist at Sun Microsystems, declared in his famous article “Why the Future Doesn’t Need Us†that we have to relinquish artificial intelligence, biotech, and nanotechnology because they’re just too dangerous for human beings to handle. Is there some truth to that?
Thiel: I think it’s not even wrong. It’s one of those things that’s so far off the mark that it is not even wrong.
There are obviously dangers in these technologies. But I think Joy’s approach would actually lead to the future he fears. If the virtuous people relinquish these things, it means that they will be developed by the evil people, and that seems to me to be a recipe for these technologies going wrong.
The only way for something like Joy’s approach to work would be basically a totalitarian world-state in which we control the technologies worldwide. It is incredibly arrogant to say that the only smart people in the world exist in the United States and that if you can stop it in the U.S., you’ll stop it everywhere. Maybe it’s going to be developed by the Chinese military. Maybe it’ll be developed by people working for Islamic terrorist groups.
The anti-Joy view that I would articulate is that what we need to be doing is to be pushing the accelerator further and harder. What I fear is that people working in free countries, where I think these technologies are likely to be developed in a more benign way, are being blocked by bureaucratic regulation and by cultural ideas that we shouldn’t be doing this. We are on this technological arc. We don’t know where it’s going to go, but I think the best trajectory is for us to just hit the accelerator really hard.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 7:58 pm #
and this
Reason: What do you think are the most dangerous political trends in the United States?
Thiel: It seems like things are moving in a very anti-libertarian direction politically on every issue. There may be a few exceptions, but generally we’re moving toward a country that’s fiscally more liberal and socially more conservative, which is a very odd configuration. You can debate why that is. Maybe politics has become purely reactionary. It’s a reaction against progress, against globalization, against technology.
Comment by datadave on 4/30 @ 8:17 pm #
nishi, what makes you so sure that “IQ” is totally genetic, or even remotely definitive? So-called “emotional intelligence” for example or ‘temperament’ is also a huge factor in how one performs on tests or in life.
The Bell Curve was just bad science and poorly diagnosed ‘trends’ that seem to obviated by people such as a half breed as Obama. Cultural influences have a lot to do with how a test is received and played. IQ tests are as varied and inaccurate as lie detector tests. And just being ‘bookish’ will give one an advantage over someone who may be even smarter but lacks interest in reading, but prefers physically active pursuits.
I suppose denouncing Reverand Wright as a ‘man of the cloth’ makes Obama’s crown shine ever so more brightly for Nishi…. but the rationale for Obama’s seeking Rev. Wright’s flock is neglected. Obama wanted to be anointed by none other than Rev. Wright.
And I respect Wright’s anger for Obama’s distancing himself from what Obama had sought in the first place. Loyalty does have some value doesn’t it?
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 8:23 pm #
Projection. No one at PW is trying to force anything in regard to this issue. The only thing you’re seeing is responses to your relentless pursuit of the subject.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/30 @ 8:23 pm #
Maybe
politicsthe media has become purely reactionary.Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 8:27 pm #
You, on the other hand, need to look at that torch you’re holding.
Comment by Pablo on 4/30 @ 8:28 pm #
And no one is dissing Pournelle. Just you.
Comment by JHoward on 4/30 @ 8:40 pm #
Occam’s Blunt Instrument, nuggiesan: The number of times you’ve been identified in this thread alone as a mindless, lying namedropper who clearly refuses to engage others honestly on anything of merit is probably directly proportional to the number of times you’ve simply been found by readers to be a mindless, lying namedropper who clearly refuses to engage others honestly on anything of merit.
Whoa; dude.
Comment by RTO Trainer on 4/30 @ 8:41 pm #
DD,
Being “bookish” would mean that the individual is too old to have a meaningful IQ measurement. After age 5 any IQ testing is of less and less value as it becomes a measure of knowledge and not intelligence.
All professionally formulated and administered standardized tests are culturally normalized either before (formulation) or after (scoring).
Comment by B Moe on 4/30 @ 9:06 pm #
have you thought that calling me and dr. pournelle eugenicists for citing the bell curve
My only thought is you have degenerated from disingenuous to an outright fucking liar.
Comment by B Moe on 4/30 @ 9:07 pm #
You still haven’t explained the moral difference between selective breeding better humans and genetically engineering them.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 10:14 pm #
B Moe…I never said anything about the bell curve myself….i only linked what dr. pournelle said.
The 40% of the lefthand bell curve.
so yes, the eugenicist remark must apply to us both, logically.
and no, palmetto said that science was evil without being guided by ideology.
“All science and no philosophy leads to bad places.”
and he said “Stein had a fair point there.”
nice.
Dr. Reynolds disagrees.
my hero.
;)
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 10:15 pm #
also, captain stupid eats crow in that same post.
;)
Comment by B Moe on 4/30 @ 10:23 pm #
The inside of your head must look like a circus in zero gravity.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 4/30 @ 10:25 pm #
I personally? Naw, too much trouble. Although…you’d be warm for the rest of your life.
Comment by B Moe on 4/30 @ 10:30 pm #
What is difference between genetically engineering or selectively breeding the master race?
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/30 @ 10:40 pm #
lolz! ima transhuminist, not a nazi.
the difference is choice.
i shall be homosapiens transhumanicus
u will avoid that evil, corrupting godless science and live out your meager span on the antique genome reservation.
hehe, transhumanism is an individual choice
Comment by Pablo on 5/1 @ 2:51 am #
Like Klingonism.
Comment by PalmettoTiger on 5/1 @ 8:38 am #
I never said it was evil. I said it can lead to evil things being done, i.e. “bad places,” without some sort of philosophical/moral/ethical guide and not that evil was somehow science’s default setting. Surely you cannot be arguing that there shold be no moral or ethical guidelines to science?
Stein’s fair point was that his family’s experience with scientists was that they were the ones conducting experiments on the Jews in the camps. Do you say he did not have a fair point when he called those scientists “murders”?
And I read Captain Ed’s post several times. He wasn’t the one who called the book pseudoscience - that was the APA. His point was fairly clear: Wright’s remarks were similar to (but not the same as) ideas put forth in “The Bell Curve” but whereas the book ignited a not-so-minor firestorm, Wright’s remarks on tones, etc were looked at much differently.
PT
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/1 @ 8:28 pm #
more equivocating bs.
captain stupid put a picture of the book, The Bell Curve, with the caption
what don’t you unnerstand?
I unnerstand ‘zactly wat Expelled is and i got banned at chicago boyz for sayin it today.
it made them furious…..that is how i know it is truth.
;)
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/1 @ 8:38 pm #
here there be fascists
Comment by Pablo on 5/1 @ 8:42 pm #
You get banned pretty much everywhere. There’s a reason for that, and it isn’t your truthiness.
Comment by Pablo on 5/1 @ 8:57 pm #
Did you notice that you’re on the same side of the argument as the C-Boyz proprietors? And yet they bounced you anyway.
When someone tells you you’re an asshole, you can ignore it. When everyone tells you you’re an asshole, it’s probably you. In your case, it’s definitely you. But then, it’s always about you, isn’t it? Maybe you just need another pony.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/1 @ 9:41 pm #
and i should care…why?
Comment by Pablo on 5/1 @ 9:46 pm #
Because you’re not getting through to anyone. You’re a sideshow, at best.
Comment by B Moe on 5/1 @ 9:54 pm #
and i should care…why?
You spend several hours a day intentionally pissing people off and convincing them you are borderline retarded, and you don’t see a problem? You might consider getting some help, nish.
Comment by Swen Swenson on 5/1 @ 11:12 pm #
All of the above?
Comment by datadave on 5/2 @ 5:25 am #
thx for the response, RTO. You seem to agree that IQ is hard to measure and perhaps nishi’s self absorption isn’t reality-based. I did an English and American IQ test and there was a big difference. But i was of the school that IQ shouldn’t be emphasized in schooling.
Just an acknowledgment. What’s the ‘half-life’ of these threads?
Comment by Slartibartfast on 5/2 @ 9:01 am #
More likely, got banned for saying it again and again and AGAIN, regardless of whether saying it is relevant to the thread topic.
Argument by endless assertion isn’t compelling, nishi. It doesn’t matter if you’re right; if you don’t bring it, you’re just going to wind up annoying people. Which then leads to having them shut you out of the conversation, so the adults can talk.
I’ve pointed this out over and over, and you persist in your mischaracterization, subject-changing and arrogance without cause. I’ve got to conclude once again that you’re doing it on purpose.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/2 @ 6:02 pm #
THIS is how we could change the shape the distribution of IQ….if it works.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/2 @ 6:02 pm #
400
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/2 @ 6:04 pm #
got banned for saying it again and again and AGAIN
i only said it once.
an i still got banned.
;)
fascists.
Comment by guinsPen on 5/2 @ 6:04 pm #
Ichikizonoshinji.
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/2 @ 6:05 pm #
oops
i only said it once
Comment by nishizonoshinji on 5/2 @ 6:06 pm #
ichi means number one
arigato, guins
Comment by guinsPen on 5/2 @ 6:07 pm #
Wrong, Ichiki.
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