I do not know whether Michael Hirsh should be blamed for that Newsweek sub-headline, as he cites evidence that the North is seceding from the North:
As John Micklethwait and Adrian Wooldridge observed in their 2004 book, “The Right Nation: Conservative Power in America,” the nation’s population center has been “moving south and west at a rate of three feet an hour, five miles a year.”
That is the ironic underpinning to Hirsh’s target-rich screed about the “nativism and yahooism” that has ruined his country.  He claims the Southern-frontier warrior culture and Wilsonian messianism have taken over our national dialogue, and the Easterners are running for the hills… but ultimately admits:
[T]he Old South is gone with the wind in other ways, having suffered a hybridization from Northern and Midwestern influences.
So what really makes Hirsh so angry? According to Hirsh, “we have become an intolerant nation, and that’s what gets you elected.” He wants to return to the days when Jesus Christ Superstar was celebrated as great art (or high craft) despite its “blasphemous dimension.” We were so much more tolerant then.
Oh, the way Lloyd Webber played
songs that made the Hit Parade…
Proggs like Hirsh, they had it made.
Those were the days…
(h/t HotAir.)
This southerner is all for them going back to whichever frozen shithole they descended from. Except for the rare quality piece of ass that is.
“Jesus Christ superstar” was one of those greatest underground LPs, including Beetles, which marked my growing up and realizing what’s what back then.
Love that music since then.
Yee Hawww!
BTW, tl;dr
The last 3 Democrat presidents were born in Texas, Georgia and Arkansas. The last Southern GOP President, prior to Connecticut born GW Bush, was Eisenhower. Someone needs to check their premises.
I think the Easterners (and Left Coasters) are heading for the hills because they can no longer tolerate the high taxes they imposed upon themselves; unfortunately for the rest of decent America, they’re bringing their high taxes with them in the name of CHANGE.
And, when they bring their high taxation to decent America they act like Al Franken by never paying them.
headed right for Jesusland.
part of the IQ gap is the increasing stereotyping of the religious right as intolerant patriarchydaddies, like in Thirteen and the Handmaids Tale.
While pro-christian literature has devolved to the laughable Left-Behinders.
Part of the negative stereotyping of fabled xian intolerance gets expressed as Squidbillies/Adult Swim rip offs of the Rapture, and Moral Oral.
and don’t forget, those, mean cowardly intolerant darwin fishes.
Of course…these patriarchydaddies don’t help xian public relations a t’all.
Hirsch’s comments struck as just so much of the same whining from liberals over the last 20-some years. From Reagan onward – and the appearance of the Reagan Democrats – liberals have had to actually justify their policies, argue their positions, and, basically, not always get their way.
and how could i forget South Park?
jdm, dont you think this true?
that is why mccain had to seek hagee’s endorsement and why he must tolerate huckabee.
nishizonoshinji
Is this your way of saying that Rev Wright and Obma are NOT Christian?
btw, in Thirteen the South secedes to become the Republic, which everyone pretty much calls Jesusland.
in the republic there is no free public education, no abortion, no birth control, no homosexuals, faithbased prisons and a spectacular border fence.
However, the borderfence is put up by the Northeast Federation and the Rim States to keep the republicans in.
;)
Oh, and in Moby Dick, the whale wins. Just sayin’.
Who the fuck cares what the semi-literate, lying fraud that posts under the name “nishizonoshinji” is spewing now?
nope, cyn.
wat im saying is wat Hirsch is saying.
you can’t be elected pres without being an xian of some stripe anymore
In the middle of their latest dayum Amerkun screed, the Beeb found a thoroughly paradoxical truth. Paradoxical, I tell ya: Gun-totin Amerkuns paradoxically have drastically less crime and even — gasp! — public drunkenness than the sacroscant Brits, the exemplars of all that is civil and decent. Paradoxically.
Oh, is that nuggie-san prattling on about intelligence again at the same time as she alone defines xiananity? Rejoice that she, presumably, has no male appendage or it’d be waving all over the place.
Like she has, as I observed yesterday about SemanTickLeo, precisely zero perspective.
Pablo, im pointing out that Hirsch’s essay is part of a trend.
Increasingly xians are stereotyped as ignorant and intolerant.
And he grew up in Kansas and was living, I believe, in Pennsylvania when he ran for president.
Of course, introducing that re Eisenhower does kind of undermine regarding GWB as a New Englander, but even so. The last Southern-raised Republican president before Bush 43 was, um…
Hell, even Kentucky-born Abraham Lincoln grew up in Illinois.
Yeah, gone are the good old days of non-Christian American presidents. Remember when we elected that Wiccan broad? That was awesome.
Essays indicate trends in essays. Not necessarily trends in the objective here and now.
Just sayin’.
Go play, nuggie-san: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Rq-kK7GEb7M
nishizonoshinji
Actually wat u and Hirsh r saying is tat ‘some religious are better than Others’
Ur r voting 4 Obama who has attended Rev Wright’s church for 20 years BUT u tink his religion is better since he worships Marxism.
Nishi, you spout such inanities sometimes, and it does get tiresome.
You claim:
“wat im saying is wat Hirsch is saying.
you can’t be elected pres without being an xian of some stripe anymore”
Well, duh. I realize you are just a kid, but haven’t you read any history? Every president ever elected has always at least claimed to be some kind of “xtian”, for the simple reason that the overwhelming majority of the populace is “xtian”.
However, the only people who seem to have a problem with this are the wingnut proggies like this Hirsch clown and…well, you.
Indeed, no one has made much of an issue of it (with the possible exception of Kennedy’s Catholicism back in 1960), again, except for the proggies, and even then only when they think they can use it as a weapon against the Republican glavni vrag (that’s for sashal; it’s Russian for the “main enemy”).
Despite all the howling from your crowd to the contrary, Bush hasn’t done a goddam thing to turn this country into a “theocracy”. It’s all in your head.
And as someone who has lived in the South (or more precisely, the Southwest) all his life, but who has also traveled extensively in this country, I can tell you that people down this way are nowhere near as monolithic in their worldview as some ignorant Yankee poseur like this Hirsch douchenozzle would love to think. Furthermore, when it comes to “inbred lowlifes”, the South has NO corner on the market in that regard. I’ve encountered just as many white (and every other color) trash lowlifes in such politically correct places as New York, Massachusetts, Washington (DC and state) and California as I have ever seen in the South.
You guys really need to wake up and smell the coffee…:)
And you knew who you were then
Gheys were goils, and men were men….
Mister we could use a man like Ronald Reagan again
Didn’t need no welfare state
Never had to integrate
Sex was just to procreate….
Those were the dayzzzzzz
Nishi displays her casual religious bigotry. What fun.
Oh, and Nishi, intelligent people make an effort to spell words correctly to begin with.
Hirsch wrote 1,200 words about … what? He’s the senior editor of Newsweek and what, exactly, is this point of that column? What is timely or newworthy about it? Sure, he makes passing references to Obama, Hillary and McCain, but what is his point, other than to disparage Southerners?
It’s as if he had started to write a column aimed at making some kind of point about Obama’s “bitter” remark but then, after 1,000 words, he hadn’t gotten around to it, so he just tacked on an ending and called it a day.
I think we should give the NorthEast to Canada. That’s where Canadians go when they need real healthcare anyways, and all those Snowbirds who go to Canada for prescriptions would become citizens anf be covered under their great healthcare plan.
Contradictory you say?
Tell that to Nationalized Healthcare supporters.
“that is why mccain had to seek hagee’s endorsement”
Will you PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT FUCKING HAGEE FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!!
It’s a dead meme, you fucking idiot.
Hirsch’s article was as clueless and offensive–both to Southerners and to blue-collar Pennsylvanians–as any racial slur so far directed in print against Barrack Obama. There’s a huge double-standard here; the white, slave-owning Southerner George Washington, who made the famous speech of inclusion and tolerance in a Connecticut synagogue that welcomed Hirsch’s ancestors to this country, would not be tolerated today in the Brave New World of modern ‘liberalism’.
HIRSCH:Yet John McCain, even with the GOP nomination in hand, would never dare repeat his brave but politically foolhardy condemnation of the religious right in 2000 as “agents of intolerance.†Why? Because we have become an intolerant nation, and that’s what gets you elected.
What does Hirsch mean by “we?” Methinks the saucy “Rage Boy” doth need to speak for himself.
As for “intolerance,” somebody should ask Hirsch about his positions on a) the “Fairness Doctrine” and b) “Net Neutrality.” I’ve got a sawbuck that says Hirsch is in favor of them because, well golly gosh, they’d stifle “intolerant” conservative talk radio hosts like Rush Limbaugh and “incorrect” blog sites like Protein Wisdom.
Anybody care to make a friendly wager that I’m right? It’s odd: Hirsh, being of Jewish heritage, has learned absolutely nothing from 20th Century history when it comes to real “intolerance.”
i think the “bubba gap” is actually the thinker/believer gap.
and….you guys are still having a meltdown about Wright..but the voters aren’t.
oh lookie…HRC is beating mccain too.
SGT Ted…..Jesusland
just answer my question:
HIRSCH:Yet John McCain, even with the GOP nomination in hand, would never dare repeat his brave but politically foolhardy condemnation of the religious right in 2000 as “agents of intolerance.†Why? Because we have become an intolerant nation, and that’s what gets you elected.
could mccain make that “agents of intolerance” statement and still get elected pres?
As Flannery O’Connor wrote:
“Whenever I’m asked why Southern writers particularly have a penchant for writing about freaks, I say it is because we are still able to recognize one. To be able to recognize a freak, you have to have some conception of the whole man, and in the South the general conception of man is still, in the main, theological.”
Although, I have to admit my conception of Hirsh is, in the main, scatological, instead.
today? could he make it today?
Of course Archie Bunker was born and raised in Queens….
Everyone, please heed Maj. John’s advice. Do not engage.
Nah, you’re wrong. I got guns and a tractor and a pickup truck with mud tars and an NRA sticker and an American car with a V8, and I don’t believe in omnipotent sky ghosts.
But I don’t really care if other people do.
Essays indicate trends in essays.
and in literature
and in terebi
just answer the question Jim.
sure there are thinkers that are believers like Dr. Pournelle and Dr. Collins.
but they don’t make up 1/5 of the electorate like the theocons.
i own a browning automatic and a ruger semi-automatic with a 16shotclip.
that doesn’t make ma anything but an outlier.
c’mon….could mccain say that and win the presidency?
Mayberry was in North Carolina, an East Coast state….
Didn’t nishi say a month or so ago that she was done with PW, and that she wouldn’t be posting here anymore?
Maybe I was mistaken, and it was just a sweet, sweet dream…
answer the question lee
hahahaha
you KNOW he couldn’t say that today and get elected pres.
admit Hirsch is right.
rawr!
“Comment by nishizonoshinji on 4/27 @ 10:24 am #
answer the question lee”
Nobody cares, you reatrded marmoset.
“i think the “bubba gap†is actually the thinker/believer gap.”
Oh the irony.
That statement from an illiterate.
Astonishing.
Brain, It is asking a question with an obvious answer (when he said it then he couldn’t even get the nomination), in order to make what It thinks is a point.
No one can piss off Christians and get elected president, the real point being that, as mentioned earlier, the vast majority of this country is Christian.
Which really upsets It’s notion of tolerance.
Aside from gaining some apparently undeserved remuneration, what could Hirsch possibly think he is accomplishing merely by telling us about his own bigotry and paranoia?
answer the question lee
Hint: try writing the question in English.
Poseur.
Fraud.
Liar.
That’s your quota for today. Savor it while you can.
nish: your online persona has definitely expired.
Jesus Christ Superstar and American Idol but he didn’t see the performance but he read about it in the New York Times and he knows for real that something deep and basic has changed in our country. Yeah that doesn’t cut it no mores.
ok, heres my points.
1) there is increasing anti-religiousright sentiment in both literature and the media. goldbergs CSI example, darwin fish, Thirteen and the Handmaids Tale, and South Park and Adult/Swim are all data points.
2) the FLDS polygamy ranch will continue to recieve extremely negative coverage right up through the elections, thanks to DNA testing and Greta Van Sustern.
3) the bubba gap is actually the thinker/believer gap, or the religion/secularism gap, or the IQ gap, as i like to callit.
Seeing how’s your baiting here, in this blog, nuggie-san, you moron look-alike, what then is your precise point?
“3) the bubba gap is actually the thinker/believer gap, or the religion/secularism gap, or the IQ gap, as i like to callit.”
Oh the irony.
That statement from an illiterate.
Astonishing.
Oh. Data points.
Because of your sheer objectivity.
“Comment by ahem on 4/27 @ 10:54 am #
nish: your online persona has definitely expired.”
What’s the “Use By” date for a retarded marmoset?
There is an increasing anti-media sentiment in our religion and our literature.
The bubba gap is actually the loser/winner gap. Ohnoes they don’t care what we think no mores. Big stupidheads.
The FLDS polygamy ranch was opposed to get positive coverage? You forget how when we get up to the elections, polygamy ranches will be way stale and not moving the dial and we will have a sudden flu vaccine shortage and QaQaa! but then oh wait nevermind.
nuggie-san, the “FLDS polygamy ranch” thingie makes smart folks simply question the security of their rights. That this is happening on a widespread basis is encouraging.
That you cast such as south of your already and obviously limited mental powers is unsurprising, but as with all self-limiting stereotyping, you’re projecting an entire field of specialized thought right out of existence.
Ergo, “FLDS polygamy ranch”.
That thing about your lacking any reasonable, usable perspective again comes to mind at times like these.
I come here to read the brilliant ideas batted about by Jeff, Dan, Karl, and the many fascinating commenters.
What I get is the disjointed, illiterate, dumbassedry of a texting telephone pole. Sigh.
Hey — this is a job for Ghost Busters!
“The Handmaid’s Tale” was published in 1985. NINETEEN-EIGHTY-FIVE. Twenty-three FUCKING years ago. You illiterate chucklehead.
Because Liberal Fascism wasn’t a #1 bestseller. Because the “FLDS polygamy ranch†thingie isn’t even remotely controversial. Because the right blogosphere is positively in love with McCain.
Because FOX and AM talkradio are in bankruptcy and Air America competes with none less than Google for high price to earnings ratios.
I don’t disagree with anything that Karl and Jeff have written about Obama and his associations. Nonetheless, I can’t help but think that it is all so very beside the point. If the right were actually dedicated to fighting for individual rights, it would have no problem ripping either Obama, Hillary, or anyother Democratic candidate to shreds on the basis of their explicitly stated beliefs. In that case, fighting the political war on the basis of cultural memes would not only be unnecessary, it would be seen as unproductive as well. In as much as the right has dedicated itself to fighting socialism by offering socialism-lite, this option is unavailble to it. What good does it do to show clearly by his associations that Obama is a socialist, if the right is mute on the evils of socialism? What good does it do to show that progressivism is “smiley-face fascism,” when the right is offering us smiley-face-with-a-halo fascism? What we need is a principled battle against socialism, but instead we’re mired in the quagmire of the Culture Wars.
It would be better to lose elections fighting for capitalism and freedom than win them with candidates who are going to push the same socialist agenda as the left. When this socialism-lite tanks the economy, and it will, it’s going to drag the right down with it, and leave the public clamoring for “real” socialism.
Even George Clooney is from Kentucky.
Carly sounded awful singing Jesus Christ Superstar. I couldn’t understand a word of it, so I doubt anyone that would be appalled by it would even know it was anti-JC.
She’s unappealing with a freaky tattoo-faced husband. That’s most likely what got her fewer votes from the heartland.
Finally, because polygamy is in the news, it’s too bad Chris Wallace didn’t ask Obama about his father.
ushie: “The Handmaid’s Tale†was published in 1985
Ah, yes. The US was taken over by a totalitarian theocracy, but the utterly defenseless, resource-rich Canada was still there, and serving as a refuge for draft-dodging hippies, er… freedom fighters.
I like my SF to be a little more plausible, actually.
the FLDS polygamy ranch will continue to receive extremely negative coverage right up through the elections
See what is it with the Left mentality and reruns endless reruns. Cause you have to drill shit into their stupid heads it’s the only way they learn I guess.
Here go:
Flailing.
kk, i forgot this.
no one can be elected president of the USA unless they are xian….
anymore.
“I like my SF to be a little more plausible, actually.”
read Thirteen then.
Yep. Socialist puts it lightly.
In nuggie-san threads, however, the focus is naturally downward to uprooting the vast network of self-supporting nuggie-san delusions about wholly manufactured rightist villains.
Back in the real world, talk naturally turns to a rational perspective.
flailing?
the news is all wright alla time, a O has gained .8 since yest.
;)
Nishi, if you will accept a bit of constructive criticism a fellow atheist and firm believer in the supremacy of Science over Faith, you do not present your position in a form calculated to inspire confidence in your rationality. Things like spelling and grammar matter. They allow one to express one’s thoughts in a coherent manner. When you get to college, don’t skip the essay writing classes for Creative Writing. Your writing is already “creative” enough, and you need practice in technical writing skills. Good luck with that!
(Also, reading a few good books on free market economics wouldn’t hurt.)
Answer the question, nuggie-san.
Neither literature nor “terebi,” w(ever)tf that is, are the objective here and now.
Flailing.
That may be deliberate. She has been called a liar and a fraud — which describes, among other things, the “moby.”
McCain is considered an idiot around these parts, nuggie-san. Add that useful nugget to your stockpile of data.
Ards, nishi has no interest in “…[presenting her] position in a form calculated to inspire confidence in your rationality.” She likes to throw stinkbombs and watch as her victims react.
Regards,
Ric
The last Northern liberal to win the Presidency was JFK, nearly fifty years ago.
Let’s look at the record:
Humphrey
McGovern
Mondale
Dukakis
Kerry
The only liberals to win the White House in that time period have been Johnson (Texas), Carter (Georgia), and Clinton (Arkansas). This time the Dems have a choice of *two* Northern liberals.
Also note that McGovern had supposedly had nishi’s “youth” and “intellectual” vote all sewn up (and demographically, there were a lot more young folks back then). That didn’t turn out well, you may recall.
She likes to throw stinkbombs and watch as her victims react.
She’s getting a lot of bang for her buck then.
This time the Dems have a choice of *two* Northern liberals.
And precious little chance of winning the general election with either.
SPB,
Have you reade Empire, Orson Scott Card’s newest?
The last Northern liberal to win the Presidency was JFK, nearly fifty years ago.
He wasn’t much of a liberal either – think tax cut, anti-communist, and tough on crime (well, at least the mafia).
Actually I’d say, FDR was the last.
Have you reade Empire, Orson Scott Card’s newest?
Nope, I haven’t been following Card lately, though I’m not sure why. I like his stuff. Thanks for the rec!
Part of that migration of the population center, is that Dallas is the fastest growing metro area in the US and large numbers are comming here from Detroit and Cincinatti in particular.
Check this The Canadian provinces are only cross border, not inter-province.
Ardsgaine —
Are you seriously suggesting that this site hasn’t covered the evils of socialism, or hasn’t dealt with the repugnant (to me) statism and fascistic tendencies of our current GOP nominee?
Just because we cover other things — Obama’s associations are important because they speak to his judgment and character, which are major components of electability — doesn’t mean we aren’t interested in the ideological stuff.
I mean, hell, I’ve been arguing for some time that I’d rather see the right self-destruct for pushing candidates like McCain on us than having the country slowly move left under the auspices of “Republicans” who are every bit as progressive as their Democratic nemesis. I believe I even said as much on NPR.
I support classical liberalism. I’m agnostic when it comes to “religion,” because the question of first causes is beyond the purview of science. I have argued that teaching ID in science classes would demystify it, take the sting out of the victim culture that has grown up around its exclusion, and enable science teachers to show how ID is not incompatible with evolutionary theory — because of the two, only one posits a first cause (a conscious intent), making it a clearly philosophical topic.
“map.” was supposed to be in there.
“map.†was supposed to be in there.
I wonder what’s up with North Dakota and Newfoundland?
“Obama’s associations are important because they speak to his judgment and character, which are important components of electability”
Especially in eh absense of any other measurable record of those other components.
THe guy chose to run for Presidnet on a whim and isn’t ready for prime time. That he didn’t take the time to establish those other bona fides, didn’t consider the play of what did exist, and his recent meltingdown behavior under the pressure of it, is all proof that his entire venture was unserious.
“Obama’s associations are important because they speak to his judgment and character, which are important components of electabilityâ€Â
Nope, only Hagee matters.
To retarded marmosets.
Are you seriously suggesting that this site hasn’t covered the evils of socialism, or hasn’t dealt with the repugnant (to me) statism and fascistic tendencies of our current GOP nominee?
Jeff, I haven’t been a constant reader. Like you, I occasionally feel the need to focus on other things besides politics. All I can say is that in my reading of PW, I don’t recall having encountered arguments directed against socialism as such. I may have encountered articles against particular socialist programs, but I can’t recall ever reading one that made a more general case against socialism. If those exist, I would love to read them, and I’ll gladly acknowledge my error.
In the election coverage that I’ve been reading over the past few weeks, I have definitely not seen any such arguments. I don’t deny the importance of pinning Obama to his Marxist roots, but I think there has been a failure (and not just here) to capitalize on the meaning of those roots. It’s left as an exercise for the reader. Nishi is indeed an idiot, but when she says that those things don’t matter to people of her generation, I don’t doubt that she’s right to a large extent. Not because all of them are idiots, but because they haven’t been exposed to the ideas. Likewise, there are voters out there who couldn’t care less about capitalism, but will get their shorts in a bunch over Obama saying that they cling to God and guns because they’re poor. Instead of just whipping up the latter, I think it would be a better investment of energy over the long term to create more genuinely pro-capitalist voters. Maybe then, we wouldn’t have to grit our teeth over GOP candidates like McCain.
Ardsgaine,
We’ve been over this before. I know you’re all about debating the issues. I’m inclined the same way. But as I have pointed out in prior posts — and prior comments responding directly to you — somewhere between 40-50% of voters focus more on the personal qualities of candidates than on their issue positions. So to pretend that discussing them is unnecessary or useless is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting “lalalalalalala” to yourself.
“I think it would be a better investment of energy over the long term to create more genuinely pro-capitalist voters.”
Which is exactly what Jeff has been doing for, lo, these many years.
For some reason, Newsweek is unable to process comments at this time so:
Let’s see: dwindling numbers of Americans are reading your newspapers, watching your TV shows, buying your music or electing your candidates. Oh… and the West Coast version of “Wicked” is way better.
Seceding?
Don’t let the door smack you in the butt on the way out.
I wonder what’s up with North Dakota and Newfoundland?
All of the other Canadian Provinces are shown as losers, is everyone moving to Newfoundland?
All I can say is that in my reading of PW, I don’t recall having encountered arguments directed against socialism as such.
I think most here consider that socialism is idiocy is pretty much self-evident.
euwwww, Jeffie
“teaching ID in science classes would…”
inculcate the 7-13 year olds that are susceptible to religios indoctrination.
ersulting in a nation of these people.
no way
this is a war, don’t you get it?
secualrism will win in the end.
Nishtoon is being intolerant again.
resulting in…..
Dare again…..
the thinker/believer axis.
secularism vs religion.
wat is the half-life of religious belief in America?
But for you religious folks we have some lovely parting gifts. Diane, tell them what they get.
religion is dying out
nishi converted to islam
lulz
I wish nishi had been spelling indoctrinated at a young age.
I wish nishi had been spelling indoctrinated at a young age.
I wish she’d had competent parental units.
All Nishi has is a hammer, and when she hits things it squeaks.
“Religion is collapsing in Europe”
So is Europe.
Says a lot, doesn’t it?
Says a lot, doesn’t it?
But I thought that people in collapsy-type places were known for clinging to guns, gods, and racism?
Europe is a LOT racist. But guns are loud and scary.
I wonder how anybody can be as obsessive about religion as nishi is and still not have a fucking clue what religion is or the purpose it serves in society.
#106
Because for nishi religion serves as a status symbol. It has no connection to her ultimate reality.
For Nishi, her religious belief serves as a means of rebellion against her family or upbringing and against her distorted view of American society.
pfft
religions are simply an extension of consanguinous tribalal fitness benefits to a larger, memetic tribe.
i acknowledge i am “susceptable” to religion, both environmentally and genetically.
so i choose Sufism instead of atheism.
What I am getting at are her views that Secularism or Science! are anti-religions, when they are really just alternatives to established religions, at least the way she views them. The appeal of Sufi to her is it is malleable enough to be folded into Science! quite neatly. It is really unnecessary though, because if you have enough faith in Science! and secularism they can stand alone as religions quite well. All you have to do is believe: yes we can!
Oh… and the West Coast version of “Wicked†is way better.
lulz, we get the Rim states.
;)
The appeal of Sufi to her is it is malleable enough to be folded into Science!
and….your point is?
see..if your young are exposed to science they will choose that too.
;)
think about when we get that lifehacking down and ppl dont have to die quite so young.
that will devalue the afterlife a lot.
think about when we get that lifehacking down and ppl dont have to die quite so young.
Heaven on Earth is a pretty powerful product. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Hagee trying to sell it, really.
I mean, hell, I’ve been arguing for some time that I’d rather see the right self-destruct for pushing candidates like McCain on us than having the country slowly move left under the auspices of “Republicans†who are every bit as progressive as their Democratic nemesis.
Jeff, can you explain how the right’s self-destructing will benefit the US? I’ve never heard anyone lay out the case for this. Is it a strategy or is it just frustration that the right hasn’t delivered on smaller government and protection of Constitutional rights? I’m not arguing with you; I’m just curious on your thoughts.
#113 Yeah, devalued afterlife. Got it. Living so long will make us all so damn exhausted, we won’t wanna go to heaven and have to get all busy again.
You’re a damn fool.
The appeal of Sufi to her is it is malleable
No, the appeal of Sufi to her is that it allows her to continue her charade of being an “intellectual”, plus it makes Dad yell and Grandma cry at family dinners.
Karl wrote: But as I have pointed out in prior posts  and prior comments responding directly to you  somewhere between 40-50% of voters focus more on the personal qualities of candidates than on their issue positions. So to pretend that discussing them is unnecessary or useless is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting “lalalalalalala†to yourself.
Do you consider that a fair representation of what I’m saying?
We haven’t had a small government GOP presidential candidate since Reagan. As long as we continue appealing to the shallow prejudices of the voting public to win elections, we’re not going to get one. The case for capitalism doesn’t rest on prejudice, it rests on ideas. If you want a constituency that will support it, you have to build that constituency by talking to them on an intellectual level.
And if I didn’t think you guys could do that, I wouldn’t be here trying to talk to you about it.
[quote]What I am getting at are her views that Secularism or Science! are anti-religions, when they are really just alternatives to established religions, at least the way she views them. The appeal of Sufi to her is it is malleable enough to be folded into Science! quite neatly. It is really unnecessary though, because if you have enough faith in Science! and secularism they can stand alone as religions quite well. All you have to do is believe: yes we can![/quote]
I know she’s expressed quasi-religious views about the idea of a historical singularity that can only be described as rapturous. If that was her only major irrationality, I know I wouldn’t have the problems I do with trying to understand her arguments.
For the record, despite being one of those Catholics she rails against, I find myself sympathetic to her fight against ID, at least generally (although she imbues her struggle with an irrational fervor that’s almost… religious). However, she seems completely oblivious to anything that doesn’t fit within her carefully constructed worldview.
While it’s nice to say that you don’t want ideology mixed up in education, it’s obvious to anyone that’s talked to a recent high school student that ideology is already mixed up in the education system. Warning stickers in biology textbooks seem silly to me, but comparatively minor compared to the utter travesty that makes up the blatant ideological slant in a modern history or civics textbook. As long as you allow that ideological bias, I can’t justify denying anyone else the ability to push their ideology into education using the same system. Nishi’s just pissed because she liked science classes in high school, so it’s her ox that’s being gored. I’m a twentieth century history buff, with an emphasis on world politics, so that’s the bias I fixate on.
Likewise, Nishi’s fixated on abortion, so she sees Catholic theology purely in that light, which is why she lumps them in with the evangelical protestant denominations under the group she calls ‘theocons’.
Back to the main thread of this post, the north-south split in American politics is imagined. The rural parts of PA are culturally and politically closer to the rural parts of the south than the cities of PA. Suburban and small city areas vary depending on the industry. The liberal elites are just as prone to “nativism and yahooism”, just under different names, that is, a provincial elitism and tendancy to look down on those with different cultural traditions.
We haven’t had a small government GOP presidential candidate since Reagan. As long as we continue appealing to the shallow prejudices of the voting public to win elections, we’re not going to get one. The case for capitalism doesn’t rest on prejudice, it rests on ideas. If you want a constituency that will support it, you have to build that constituency by talking to them on an intellectual level.
Much as I’d like to persuade the voting public that capitalism works, I don’t know how to go about doing that. The playing field is not level; the press and the educational establishment have biases against capitalism, and without those is an uphill fight. All problems will be blamed on capitalism and all solutions will be socialism.
I’m not saying give up the fight, there are small government things we can do. We can use court appointments to appoint judges that will rein in government power and expand federalism and we can check excesses of federal spending. The main problem is congress, we need congressmen who worry more about doing the right thing than getting re-elected, and are smart enough to have as advertising the money the cut from other districts rather than the money they’ve brought to their own. The media issue will go away on its own if we have enough time; the MSM is dying slowly.
But if we push too hard, we lose. Reducing the sentences for drug users or dialing back federal laws for pot would probably be politically possible, but if we try to straight out legalize all drugs now, we’re going to lose badly.
Wouldn’t be surprised to see Hagee trying to sell it, really.
nah, hes sellin teh Rapture.
Civilis, my argument is that we are not seeing a Bubba Gap, but a thinker/believer gap. I’m callin’ it the IQ gap for want of a better descriptive.
My position is that Expelled is quintessentially IQ-baiting, exploiting the difference between thinkers and believers.
“Bittergate” is IQ-baiting.
the ppl here don’t want to admit that there is an IQ gap. ;)
The evolution of culture is a series of heresies that challenge orthodoxies.
Geo-centrism became helio-centrism.
Paganism and animism became mono-theism.
The orthodoxies of intelligent design and creationism were supplanted by the heresy of theory of evolution.
Secularism is the heresy of thinkers. If it is a better model it will supplant the orthodoxy of believers.
Homosapiens sapiens continues to
Once upon a time….all government was religious.
Once upon a time….all higher education was religious.
I think we do not go backwards.
Culture does not devolve.
Homosapiens sapiens continues to adopt the better model.
And for religious belief to continue to survive….it must become compatible with science.
That is why we see some in the catholic church adopting evolution.
An attempt to evolve.
Intelligent Design is an attempt to repackage creationism as a science.
It won’t work, because we cannot force a return to the orthodoxy through social engineering.
The base premise of IDT is still the orthodoxy, creationism.
nishi, “hunny”? No one’s in this thread any more. You can turn off your Markov chain text generator/posting script now.
well…..you’re here…..hunnie
:)
And you’re tedious and not getting anywhere, hunnie.
darn you, SBP! you owe me two dollars. I had “8 straight comments” in the pool.
Secularism is the heresy of thinkers. If it is a better model it will supplant the orthodoxy of believers.
And it has happened/is happening in all modern nations except America…yet.
secular europe
secular Britain
secular Oz
But if we push too hard, we lose. Reducing the sentences for drug users or dialing back federal laws for pot would probably be politically possible, but if we try to straight out legalize all drugs now, we’re going to lose badly.
In spite of the fact that I’ve pushed the legalization issue recently, it’s somewhere in the middle of my list of steps I’d like to see us take to return to a free market system. At the top of the list is reversing the growth of the government budget. If we could put it into remission, and start phasing out all the various social programs, bailouts, subsidies, earmarks, etc, that would make a lot more things possible, like abolishing the Fed and returning to a free banking system. Number two on the list would be to get government out of education at all levels. Three would be to abolish the SEC and other regulatory agencies. If we could accomplish those three, ending the drug war would be a breeze. Government spending is as addictive as heroin, though, and it would take time to wean people off of it.
well…if i get the last word….then i can declare victory!
Sorry, you need to work on spelling, capitalization and punctuation.
nope, i don’t
dr. pournelle:
the IQ gap….rightside of the Bell curve/leftside of the Bell curve.
see….Obama is an elite, but at least he knows the score…thus bittergate.
i agree with dr. cochran btw.
cochran:
Is BELL CURVE the new WEDGE STRATEGY?
Or is this about ESCR? I can never keep nishtoon’s obsessions sorted out.
No idea what this is about, but what else can you expect from Nishi?
What worries me is that, oddly enough, she might be on to something. There was a bell curve in high school, but the believers, including both the firm believers in atheism and the firmly religious, were on the intelligent, or at least studious and productive, side. The know nothings, those that cared not for knowledge or reason or faith, were those on the stupid side.