Nora Ephron, who carved a career in movies by successfully aping Woody Allen in her screenplay for When Harry Met Sally, is vexed:
Here’s another thing I don’t like about this primary: now that there are only two Democratic candidates, it’s suddenly horribly absolutely crystal-clear that this is an election about gender and race. This may have always been true, but weeks ago it wasn’t so obvious — once upon a time there were eight candidates, and although six of them withered away, their presence in the campaign managed to obscure things. Even around the time of Ohio, when there were primarily three candidates, the outlines were murky, because Edwards was still in there, picking up votes from all sectors.
But now there are two and we’re facing Pennsylvania and whom are we kidding? This is an election about whether the people of Pennsylvania hate blacks more than they hate women. And when I say people, I don’t mean people, I mean white men. How ironic is this? After all this time, after all these stupid articles about how powerless white men are and how they can’t even get into college because of overachieving women and affirmative action and mean lady teachers who expected them to sit still in the third grade even though they were all suffering from terminal attention deficit disorder — after all this, they turn out (surprise!) to have all the power. (As they always did, by the way; I hope you didn’t believe any of those articles.)
Of course we didn’t, though Ephron’s first graf (which begins with “another thing”) suggests she didn’t get it, just like the NYT’s Gail Collins. In fact she still doesn’t get it, as Obama has done well with white men since the beginning of primary season. Obama’s problem with white men is not race as much as it is culture.
Even New York magazine’s blog is mocking Ephron’s antipathy to white men.
But my favorite part may be her claim that Edwards was still picking up votes from all sectors in the Ohio primary on March 4, given that he all but dropped out of the race on January 30 and won 1.72% of the vote in Ohio.
He’s a compelling candidate cause he’s not a Marxist what wants to give terrorists a free hand in the Middle East I thought. Is she serious that she thinks McCain is gonna pick up white male votes cause he’s a big girl about interrogating terrorists? Maybe Lindsay will vote for him cause of that, but he’s a big girl too.
Oh. Lindsey. I always get him mixed up with the Bionic Woman.
“This is an election about whether the people of Pennsylvania hate blacks more than they hate women.”
Somebody remind me never to read or see any of her crap ever again. Thank you.
“This is an election about whether the people of Pennsylvania hate blacks more than they hate women.â€Â
I thought this was a joke when I first read it. I guess we can thank the Dems for identifying the sexists and racists for the rest of us.
So I guess she’s suggesting that the Republicans in Pennsylvania are storming the Democratic primaries. Or she’s admitting that Male Whiteness trumps Democratic Party affiliation.
It’s sort of freeing to know that no matter what I might say or do, I’m adamantly and eternally racist and misogynist. Now I can go home and tell my wife to shut up and make me a damn sammich without the guilt.
Judging from the stock photo they chose I’d say New York magazine’s blog is really mocking Ephron’s latest face lift.
Totally agrees with Nora on this one.
This is an election about whether the people of Pennsylvania hate blacks more than they hate women.
It could be about whether they love blacks more than they love women, couldn’t it?
But it absolutely can’t have anything at all to do with whether they think one would make a better president than the other. That would be preposterous.
So, Lisa:
After Universal Health Care, Iraq, Oil Companies, Wright, Tuzla, bitter, guns, religion, pieces of pie, PACS, mortgage rate freezes, greedy wall street brokers, original sin, broken economy, working poor, Booooooosh, proud of America, old senile angry guy, politics as usual, hope, change, melting polar ice caps, unite, 3:00AM and foreign experience:
You honestly think that the PA primary is going to be decided by whether there are more racist Democrats than sexist Democrats?
Nice party you have there…
Totally agrees with Nora on this one.
Which Lisa is this? The ” attend Rev Wright’s church Lisa”, or the “My cousin attends Rev Wright’s church” Lisa?
Totally agrees with Nora on this one.
Gosh, I’m sorry. You’re not married to a white male Democrat, are you? It would be awful to be married to a guy who can’t decide whether he hates women more than blacks, or vice versa.
The â€ÂI attend….
Totally agrees with Nora on this one.
Well then lets look at this statement by Nora: “This is an election about whether the people of Pennsylvania hate blacks more than they hate women. And when I say people, I don’t mean people, I mean white men.”
So then in your opinion, which is it? Do PA white men hate blacks more than they do women? Please clarify so we can know whether PA white men are racists or misogynists.
Goddamn Karl, you’ve framed a ncessary debate sans Newt Gingrich regurgitations. I knew you could do it.
Kobe Bryant’s revenge is the subtext nobody wants to talk about. I’m voting Kobe.
greedy wall street brokers
That was McCain, wasn’t it?
I know, I have a hard time keeping that straight too.
Totally agrees with Nora on this one.
Lisa, is this because you’ve also dated a lot of white men? Or is it because you also like to fart in a wide-mouthed quart jar and put the lid on to save for those lonely, insecure moments?
Ephron’s essay is published on a website started with a white guy’s money.
I guess they really DO have all the power.
That may have been, Ards, but Hillary is running the “Wall Street Brokers Make Millions and Pay less taxes than a Middle Class Earner” ads here in PA. Barack has used the “Hedge fund Manager Makes million swhile homeowners face foreclosure” meme.
Identipalooza!!
Can’t I just not vote for a socialist without someone getting all judgmental? This isn’t doing my self esteem any good.
Please tell me my original thoughts about you were no so sorely mistaken.
I will make this simple. It is possible to be against Baracky and not be a racist. It is possible to be against Hillary and not be a sexist. It is possible to be for Baracky (Lord knows why) and not be a sexist. It is possible to be for Hillary (Lord knows why) and not be a racist. It it possibl to be for McCain and not be any combination of sexist or racist.
If white men hadn’t been voting for these two, it wouldn’t be a race between them. So, I guess it’s just those Pennsylvania white pricks we have to worry about, and maybe the Puerto Rican white motherfuckers too.
Oh, Nora? Fuck you.
Whoops! Sorry. I was ridin’ dirty for a minute there. But still, Nora can go fuck herself.
Let’s also try to remember that Lisa and Nora are talking about white PA Democrats.
Way to inspire the base, ladies.
Gotta enjoy the schadenfreude of the identity politics chickens coming home to roost.
Well, the Democrats are the party of the Klan and Jim Crow…
I’d be angry all the time if I had to wake up to that, too.
So I read the excerpt in Woody Allen’s voice.
Try it. It’s hilarious.
Big Dan: Loved the comment from the guy lamenting that the Black Guy and the White Woman are taking the nomination away from the White guy with the real solutions to civil rights: Dennis Kuchinich!!
I see ET!
You know, I think Lisa TOTALLY has a point. Those white male liberals hate both the women and the blacks. Another reason to turn to the dark side.
Yup, Carin! Now we know, thanks to Nora, that White Male Democrats are locked in an identity politics hate conundrum struggle that THREATENS THE VERY SOUL OF THE PARTY!
Oops! Sorry, I forgot the Democratic Party has no soul. But they have activism, bay-bee! Oh and racial hate … and … uh … misogyny…
THEY HATES THEMSELVES TEH BLACKS ANS TEH WOMYNS!!
I had no idea there were degrees to straightness. Maybe Witheld was on to something.
I know, I have a hard time keeping that straight too.
You’re having a hard time keeping something else straight?
I believe you want the “Enoch has a big butt TMI” thread.
As a TWM it is now my duty to vote against any candidate the Democrats put up just to piss off Nora Ephron.
And when I say people, I don’t mean people, I mean white men.
Holy Moly. Does that mean Obama is half a people? No wonder he choose to be black.
Does Obama hate himself, then? Or is that decision still up in the air?
Why can’t I hate them because they’re marxist tools? Dammit this is America.
You see, Obama can’t be hating himself and he can’t hate the “other” because … THE OTHER IS HIM!!
Chew on that, al!
There once was a guy named Obama
Who was born to a single white mama
His Dad was from Kenya
Who left him but then ya
Can see he’s cashed in on the drama.
This is an election about whether the people of Pennsylvania hate blacks more than they hate women. And when I say people, I don’t mean people, I mean white men. How ironic is this?
It’s pretty ironic, if you mean that someone who is a successful writer can’t bring herself to accurately write, “I don’t mean people, I mean white Democrat men.”
Nora Ephron is one of those Barbra Streisand Democrats anyway. She speaks for the people but can’t be bothered to actually be nice to the little people that cross her path.
So even if she is right, what is the worse crime? To go to the voting booth and vote for Hillary because you aren’t really ready for a black man to be President? Or to treat people like crap because they are working for small wages?
That isn’t even the correct usage. Some writer…
Being Democrats, wouldn’t it be more accurate to suggest they were trying to work out how best to cleanse themselves of the original sin of white maleness? Is it more abasing to grovel at the foot of the Dusky Other, or to kowtow to the Gynowarrior?
Maybe Witheld was on to something.
Fixed.
Man I miss him/her/it.
Strikeouts not working?? Sigh.
Strikethrough works for me because Jeebus loves me more.
“I will make this simple. It is possible to be against Baracky and not be a racist. It is possible to be against Hillary and not be a sexist. It is possible to be for Baracky (Lord knows why) and not be a sexist. It is possible to be for Hillary (Lord knows why) and not be a racist. It it possibl to be for McCain and not be any combination of sexist or racist.”
fortunately, I am a Jerkist, which leaves the field wide open for any other kind of “-Ist” I might encounter. It makes no difference to me if you have black skin or a “Va-Jay-Jay”.
Who gives a shit if you are too angry to live a productive life because you are pissed off at happy people?
If you’re a jerk, you’re a fucking jerk. Period.
Fucking jerks…
Correction, a gay white Texan trustfund
kid, whose father’s fortune was made in Indonesian oil; which Jerry Brown’s father’s law firm represented. Just plain folk. Which brings back Barry Dunham’s little tete a tete with the family of Gavin Newsom’s former business partners; The Gettys, who made
their money in oil. Most recently ventures with Saudi Delta Oil (the same company that partnered with Amerada Hess to drill in the Caspian Sea; whose board of Directors includes
9/11 Commission Director Tom Kean. Like I said just folk
Did anyone actually read the article? Or are you just in the mood to be drama queens today? Jeebus you are all hyperventillating more than Nathan Lane in The Birdcage!
This election has been brought down to the lowest common denominator: Bigotry. Are you nervous about a shrill harpy with her hand on the nuke button, or a shifty negro? It is the fault of both campaigns for bringing out the worst, but it is also shameful that the worst can still be brought out.
They have been interviewing the target voters (white males who are swing voters) for weeks now. It is no shock that these are the people that BOTH candidates are targeting. And they are using the lowest tactics to get their attention.
Get off the fainting couch and stop being silly.
Sometimes you have to turn off the tv and put away the videogames.
This election has been brought down to the lowest common denominator: Bigotry. Are you nervous about a shrill harpy with her hand on the nuke button, or a shifty negro? It is the fault of both campaigns for bringing out the worst, but it is also shameful that the worst can still be brought out.
This is a great statement – if only you could give me one example of the worst being brought out; i’ve not seen one single shred of racism or sexism during this campaign, except for that which has been exchanged between the campaigns themselves (think Clinton’s comparison of Obama to Jesse Jackson, for example). This view that you and Nora have about all of these white male racists and sexists is just one you’ve created in your own fevered minds.
Your argument is a classic straw-man. That’s why you got the reaction you did.
TV (Harry)
#51: True. But only after “Flavor of Love” goes off. Let’s not get too hasty.
They have been interviewing the target voters (white males who are swing voters) for weeks now. It is no shock that these are the people that BOTH candidates are targeting. And they are using the lowest tactics to get their attention.
This is NOT evidence of racism or sexism – it’s evidence of the lefty media’s BELIEF that racism or sexism is a factor. In none of the interviews you’re referencing has there been an instance of a white male saying that he doesn’t like shrill harpys or shifty negroes. You just assume they feel that way.
I’ll repeat myself – give an example.
TV (Harry)
I just heard an idiot on NPR telling Michelle Norris that he was nervous about Obama being a Muslim. Another said he was simply not ready to put a black man in the white house, though he thought Obama was qualified. Oh and let’s not forget the people in the audience chanting for Hillary to go iron their shirt. Oh and what about Citizens United Not Timid (C.U.N.T.). You think that is not sexism? Do you think the former statements were not just a tad bigoted? What, praythee, is sexism or racism in your mind?
Don’t insult me with that bullshit. The reaction I supposedly got was not about me or anything I said. Sometimes things are too ugly and embarrassing to look at. I hate having to examine some of the idiocy that comes from my fellow feminists, black people, and liberals. It will not KILL you to consider the possibility that perhaps something stinky is going on with the voters over in PA.
Put a heating pad on that knee, it should stop the jerking.
Lefty media? Hahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahah!
That is hilarious.
Surely your vagina queefs in jest. I think we all know that only one of the three remaining candidates has played the race card, the feminine itch card, the Bosnian sniper card, the kitchen sink card, the her-vagina-gently-weeps card, etc…
If I was a woman I’d be disgusted to admit Hillary Clinton can claim ownership to a _____.
Good Day, ____!
Thor, what an unspeakable post. I am speechless. You…I…what the….what the hell….
Have a nice night….even you darling thor, you unspeakable cur. You braying ass. You capering jackanapes.
Weeping, queefing vagina indeed.
I’ll cop to not liking shrill harpies of either sex. Furthermore my dislike for persons of shiftiness has nothing whatsoever to do with race.
When it’s only white men running it’s the patriarchy at work. When it’s a half-African man and a white bitch-devil then white men are the swing bigot voting bloc.
You try and twist are arms with crap like that? Freakish!
OK, Lisa. It is all about race and sex. Now, who made it that way?
Take your time.
Jeremiah was a bullfrog. Ribet.
Lisa, you were just the other day saying your opinion wasn’t represented in electoral politics, that they never show on the news or go to neighborhoods ‘like yours’ to represent or hear from voters.
Well guess what? You are being represented. You are the black voter! How could you have possibly complained before?
Oh and let’s not forget the people in the audience chanting for Hillary to go iron their shirt.
Lisa
It was two people and they were radio dj’s doing a publicity stunt.
The juvenile Left along with the purile Democrats have for years defined everything by identity politics… NOW they whine when people start holding them up to those standards?
I’m not voting for either Hill or Barry because they are collectivists. Period. Even though Left ilk like Nora-baby will cry about the unfairness because I’m not licking the ankles of whatever candidate they annoint as The True Way to Political Salvation.
Fuck the Left.
I’ll bet it’s going to be tough figuring out whether she hates the black or the woman in her more.
This was the subtext of my comment:href
I’m not going “fuck the Left”; there’s too many good people on the Left. I think on a persoanl level Barack Obama is a class act, period. I can’t say the same for Hillary and her jackass, white male husband, without whom she wouldn’t exist politically. Who needs to be fucked are lying, thieving political-egoists who happen to be on the Left whose last name happens to be Clinton.
Iron my plaid boxers, Hillary, and don’t steal ’em, wear ’em or let your onanist husband stain ’em.
I think on a persoanl level Barack Obama is a class act
The more I know of him and his upbringing, the less I think that is reality. A man doesn’t throw his grandmother under a bus to further his own ambitions.
On a personal level I almost feel sorry for him. He’s a male in search of an indentity.
He didn’t throw his grandmother under the bus. All the prattling about what he said amounts to nothing more than those politically opposed to him putting him under a microscope and wheedling faux-outrage at the every chance. He’s a stand-up guy.
I’ll bet it’s going to be tough figuring out whether she hates the black or the woman in her more.
The good news is, she doesn’t necessarily have to decide which part of her she hates. She just has to decide what part she shares so completely with the other people in the group that she wishes to be defined by them. Even if she chooses ‘black women’, does she feel this group really represents her? The Lisa that eschews Affirmative Action, loves Merlot, loves international travel, wants to pay high prices for hurache sandals? Does she feel she shares those qualities with all the other Black Women in her assigned category.
Cause I think, no.
I’d be interested in seeing how statistically significant the anti-black and anti-female sentiments Lisa heard described really are.
But I am not necessarily surprised to hear that the Democratic Party harbors a lot of both, and I don’t take that notion particularly personally, either. After all–I’m not a Dem.
I truly do hope, however, that Nora and Lisa both saw enough of both to buttress their feelings that there is a lot of racism and sexism among Democratic swing voters, because the only thing worse than that would be the notion that Nora and Lisa are seeing sexism and racism out of proportion, and I’d hate for that to be the case.
I do not, for example, think it’s racist for the Clinton campaign to emphasize Obama’s inexperience, wishywashiness, and unsavory political associations. Nor do I think it’s sexist for the Obama campaign to emphasize the facts that Clinton has a strong personality, and has been known to prevaricate. She does, and she has. Bug, or feature?
Why are you all getting so defensive about the crap we Democrats are arguing over? This PROVES your point that our party is OBSESSED with identity politics! You are uneccessarily sputtering huffily, pissily “whose fault is it that this race is about race and gender!?!?!?” Well DUH: It is OUR fault. This is the only logical end to the girls vs. black guys game. The lowest common denominator WILL be reached. The lines have been drawn and those who support Hillary (with a strong base of older, affluent women and older working class folks) have lined up on one side and the Barack (with a strong base of young, hip, affluent voters)on the other: Now everyone is fighting for the votes of the working class white male undecideds. That is the prize. Maybe Norah Ephron said it in a way that put the blame on the voters themselves, which is unfair – but it is true that the campaigns (well, mostly the Clinton campaign – but there is quite a bit of piggery coming from supporters of Obama) are playing to their worst fears.
I am going to have to come back here in a few weeks when I have time to argue my points (my very correct and never wrong points, lol). I am working on a project and don’t have the time to discuss this at length and explain my positions. Sorry for the drive-bys, and see you in a while!
Yes, I read the article. I thought it was very condescending. She only attributed the worst possible motives to a TWM like me. In response I will now do what I can to make Nora Ephron upset. Just because.
How do they figure calling people racists, sexists, or homophobes will win the voters over to their side?
It’s all about getting the narrative set for when the defeat happens, JD.
“See! I told you! We lost because of the racistsexisthomphobictypicalwhitemales!”
Lisa said in reference to the two contending democrats. “The lowest common denominator WILL be reached.”
Meanwhile McCain is polishing his inauguration speech.
I just hope the democrats can sustain this level of loopyness until November.
thor
He didn’t throw his grandmother under the bus.
Yes, he did. He has used both his grandmothers to his own political advantage and his treatment of the grandma who actually raised him, and who has made particular pains to avoid any publicity, was exceedingly shabby. It’s not like Barry couldn’t have come up with any number of other examples of benign bigotry; no, he had to publically call his grandmother a racist bigot.
It speaks directly to his character …and despite all the gloss and sparkle and pretensions to New!Improved!Changiness!, he’s really more of the old-fashioned Chicago machine hustler who will do/say just about anything to get where he wants to go. In this case, he decided a speech to help him to the White House was more important than honoring the woman who raised him.
That male is no man.
He’s not even a pip. He’s just a craven waffle-eatin’ socialisty coward with entitlement issues.
Still no meeting: Professors are so annoying.
Darleen, that whole grandma thing is manufactured. He never said he is grandma was a bigot. He was explaining how you can love someone and how they can love you but still have ideas that are counterintuitive to thier love for you. We all practice a little bit of exceptionalism: We can be annoyed as a whole with Muslims, while really liking the Muslim woman that we serve on the PTA with. We can be totally creeped out by gay people, but deeply love our gay brother or cousin. Maybe he should have said something like that. But then it would not have resonated as beautifuly as the story of his doting granny.
And I have never heard anything from his granny or any of the white side of his family. They are still breathless and goggle eyed over little Barry. So apparently he had their and her blessings on using that anecdote. I don’t know, but I would have to presume so. I think if SOMEONE from the family had said “hey, wtf” then I would be inclined to agree with you. But we can only assume from the continued adoration and approval coming from the (white side of the) family that his use of her as an anecdote was not a surprise nor was it offensive to them. I heard he worked for a week on the speech thinking about it and talking to people. I suspect that some of those people were actually his family members.
I am just a typical white person, so I cannot comment on whether or not Baracky threw his Grandmother under the back of the bus. I know this for a fact, no amount of conversation with my family would ever lead me to say what Baracky said about his grandmother in a nationally televised speech about the difficult conversation on race.
I have long believed that this national conversation about race that the Dems always talk about as being difficult is only going to be difficult for the Dems.
. But we can only assume from the continued adoration and approval coming from the (white side of the) family that his use of her as an anecdote was not a surprise nor was it offensive to them.
The remaining white side of the family is precisely 1 person: his grandmother. He had previously written about the incident in the book, and while he may have thought it looked like Grandma was a bigot, it was his grandfather’s laziness and his own drama-queeness that shown through.
Now, I’m a mom. I would let my kids or my (future) grandchildren throw me under the bus if it would help them be president someday. It would still hurt, though.
His mother was hurt by that book, by the way. But she died before Obama appreciated that fact.
shone
Darleen, that whole grandma thing is manufactured. He never said he is grandma was a bigot.
“I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.”
Lisa, please explain to us how a white person (1) fearing black men AND (2) uttering racial or ethnic stereotypes is NOT bigotry or racism. We’ve been hearing from the left for years that either one is classic racism. Go ahead, we’ll wait.
Sounds like another case of WORM (What Obama Really Meant…)
I never said it wasnt racism. I said he did not call her a bigot. And he didnt. He was illustrating a point (for the fivebillionth time) that we can all hold onto some odd beliefs about a group of people, while deeply loving someone who happens to be in the group we hold odd beliefs about.
So let’s recap:
White female fears blacks, utters racial or ethnic stereotypes = NOT Racist
White male fails to vote for inexperienced, America-hating, power hungry socialist black man = RACIST
White male fails to vote for shrill, conniving, power hungry slightly less socialist woman = SEXIST
Have I got that right Lisa?
I never said it wasnt racism. I said he did not call her a bigot. And he didnt.
So when Darleen said that he “he had to publically call his grandmother a racist bigot”, she was only half correct. He did call her a racist. Not a bigot. Just a racist.
And to you, this a beautiful story about his doting granny?
Someone’s delirious with the Obama Fever. See a doctor immediately.
I am not on the delirium bandwagon. Unless the entire country is on the delirium bandwagon. Very few people took that anecdote negatively. Not for lack of effort by the Clinton campaign and various cable and blogistan cranks though.
I suppose if that is your opinion then so be it. If you want to hysterically pigeon-hole me as crazier than Angela Davis (with an enormous Afro and flanked by two menacing Black Panthers), then that is your right. But I think you are engaging in hysterics, trying to make some racial animus materialize out of me that is just not there.
Lisa,
You can dance around it all you want, but the simple fact is that in his speech, Obama called his grandmother a racist. And he did it in an effort to try to minimize the impact of his 20 year association with Rev. Wright. Whether you realize it or not, you’re twisting yourself into a pretzel (i.e. “that whole grandma thing is manufactured”, “I never said it wasnt racism, I said he did not call her a bigot”, etc.) trying to excuse his actions. You may not be on the delirium bandwagon, but you’re definitely suffering from a full-blown case of denial.
And just because Obama’s family hasn’t publicly complained about what he said doesn’t mean it wasn’t an crappy thing to do. Before he made that speech, I was against him because of his inexperience and his liberal and socialist policies, but there was nothing personal to it. Now, post-speech, I think he’s a douchebag as well.
I’m looking forward to watching the train-wrecks-in-progress that are the Obama campaign and the Democratic Party.
Well that is quite simply your opinion. I respect that. But I disagree. And that is the simple fact of that matter.
Well, I am not looking forward to it, as I am a Democrat. But would, sadly, have to agree with you on the trainwreck part.
Sigh.
Not without pictures.
Yes, and Barry manufactured it out of a pile of ground Grandma. IIRC, this was Grandma’s reaction to being very aggressively panhandled by a black guy. Which, by any reasonable estimation, isn’t racist but rather rational. Why do you suppose he couldn’t have used Rev. Jerry for his “my favorite racist” anecdote instead?
I think he was trying to make a comparison to Jerry. So he had to pick someone OTHER than Jerry to compare. “I hate that Jerry said all of that racist crazy shit about white people. But I really love him alot. It is kind of like my relationship to ______. They had some biases that sucked ass, but I never doubted that they loved me and would do anything for me.” If you inserted Jerry there, it would seem slightly crazy. But since you already think he is barking, I guess it coulnt have hurt. LOL.
Well, the verdict is in. Pennsylvania white men are racist, not sexist. I’m glad we were able to clear that up.
i love Bionic Woman. i wish there were real bionic women out there.-;~