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Pennsylvanians bitter, not clinging to Barack Obama [Karl]

So, how have Barack Obama’s condescending remarks about small town Pennsylvanians clinging to guns, religion, prejudice and anti-trade, anti-immigration sentiment been playing in the Keystone state? 

American Research Group, which had Obama and Hillary Clinton tied in Pennsylvania in its April 5-6 poll, now has Clinton beating Obama by 20 points (57%-37%).  Moreover, the new poll was conducted Aprill 11-13, which means that ARG may have undersampled Democrats who were out clinging to their religion.

Could be an outlier, of course.

(h/t HotAir.)

Update: Nationally, Rasmussen Reports finds that 56% of voters disagree with Obama’s statement; only 25% agree.  Indeed, only 46% of liberals agree.

(h/t Memeorandum.)

Update x2: The WSJ points to reasons for suspicion about the ARG poll.  OTOH, Survey USA has Clinton gaining seven points in its weekend poll of Indiana.  Nationally, Gallup shows little change.  Two caveats: (1) per usual, political junkies should not assume that a story like this has fully filtered into the general public (e.g., it will likely make its first appearnace on The Daily Show, Letterman, Leno, etc. today); and (2) it is reasonable to expect that such comments will be more damaging in a general election, inasmuch as liberals and Democrats are more likely to agree with Obama’s comments.  As I wrote in the initial post, ARG could be an outlier, but the full extent of the damage to Obama may not be known for some time.

(h/t HotAir.)

130 Replies to “Pennsylvanians bitter, not clinging to Barack Obama [Karl]”

  1. Patrick says:

    46% of liberals agree? Isn’t that a ridiculously high number? It’s not surprising, mind you, but wow.

  2. Dan Collins says:

    Baracky’s recent comments have breathed new life into a couple of Iowahawk classics.

  3. Lisa says:

    This is a bunch of bullshit for the following reasons (and this doesn’t begin to cover it):

    1. People are bitter about losing what they see as good ole traditional blue collar work to the global marketplace. He wasn’t wrong about that.

    2. The press is a bunch of bored elitists who think they can rile up the unwashed masses that they call “the Heartland of America” to get burned up at anything they SAY they should get burned up at: Like Pavlov’s cheesesteak-eating dog.

    3. It is not elitist to be intelligent, well-read, not know how to bowl, and eat a frigging smoked ham sandwich rather than a pile of beef covered in cheese whiz. It is how a hell of a lot of Americans live. Especially young ones. It is idiotic to decide that a segment of the population is the only group of “real Americans” that they are the sole arbiters of who is authentic and who is a candy-assed elitist.

    4. We fetishize being Midwestern, Southern, wearing John Deere hats, being a cowboy, driving a fucking F-150, and “not being too much of a smarty pants” (which describes a character in a bad eighties movie played by Stallone or Norris) to the point where we actually do think this crap is real, and that everything else is artifice. It is about time we stopped being slaves to this ignorant assed fantasy and started paying attention to the other “real Americans” in this goddamned country. (The fact that a rich son-of-a-bitch like George W. Bush who went to ALL of the right schools and never had to struggle for a goddamned thing is considered to be a cool dude that you could hang with because he is kind of stupid and drives an F-150 to go play around his ranch – while wearing a pretty little Stetson – tells me all I need to know about our judgement of who is “authentic”).

    If Hillary Clinton wins this primary based on her “realness” in comparison to Barack Obama, I will know that someone is clinging to something other than guns and god. I am thinking they will be clinging to something called stupid. Seriously. I hope she wins because they trust her, not because they are intimidated by someone who can string a whole sentence together and doesn’t share their love of shaved beef.

  4. Karl says:

    Patrick,

    I’m more surprised that most liberals do not agree with it. “What’s the Matter with Kansas?” was huge with these folks.

    Plus, keep in mind that these are self-identifying liberals. There are probably liberals who call themselves “moderate”, but about half of self-identifying moderates disagree with Obama’s comments.

  5. hmmmm, I think the main difference is Bush never accused anyone of being a xenophobic, gun nut. Lise, it’s not the bitterness that’s the problem. and how do you reconcile Obama calling them anti-trade and his own stance on the Colombia deal and NAFTA?

  6. Jeffersonian says:

    Lisa seems rather bitter to me. Try the Sig-Sauers, princess. And Leviticus.

  7. Karl says:

    Lisa is spouting the Obama line, which focuses on the “bitter” and not the part about people clinging to guns and God because of US economic policy. And she may think this is an elitist media thinking they are riling up the masses, but the initial poll numbers suggest otherwise. And I don’t think it’s a matter of people misjudging authenticity; I think it’s a matter of people reacting to an insult.

    Lisa sounds kinda… bitter.

  8. Karl says:

    Jeffersonian beats me by a nose!

  9. MayBee says:

    1. People are bitter about losing what they see as good ole traditional blue collar work to the global marketplace. He wasn’t wrong about that.

    So they are against free trade out of bitterness?
    Does he plan to eliminated the bitterness and pave the way for free trade? Or get rid of the free trade to get rid of the bitterness.

    And you, in your hand-sewn huraches.

    3. It is not elitist to be intelligent, well-read, not know how to bowl, and eat a frigging smoked ham sandwich rather than a pile of beef covered in cheese whiz.

    But you know as well as I do that the people he was talking to in San Francisco are just plain embarrassed by those Hamburger helper eating, Oprah loving, WalMart shopping Americans in the heartland. Obama isn’t one of them. He doesn’t bring his kids to Disney, he goes to the Carribean and has even been to Pakistan, for heaven’s sake. He won’t let those xenophobes chase the San Franciscans’ maids and gardeners out of the country.

  10. Jeffersonian says:

    I just have less to say, Karl.

  11. Lisa says:

    And on the 7th day, I busted a cap in Jeffersonians ass;
    then I rested and gazed upon him as he limped to the emergency room and was pleased.

  12. sashal says:

    Lisa, You are wrong.
    Small town folks are happy to get screwed.
    Oh, and they had their guns well before that and they always had their religion.
    My guess is that unfortunate ( and not what really was meant) word “clinging” will be put on the McCain’ banner just like “100 years of wars” (which is not what in reality McCain meant) will be nailed to Obama’s banner… will be fun to watch elections this year….

  13. Lisa says:

    Karl no I dont think so. I disagree. And it is not because I am in my hand sewn huraches sipping Merlot and snottily opining on the underclass. I just think the initial reaction was: “Heh, yeah I agree” and now it is “Hey, was he sayin somethin shitty about me?”

    This is the worst kind of manipulation. It reminds me of when Jesse Jackson tries to appeal to me as a black person that “Hey, that white guy was insulting you when he said _______. You should be totally pissed.” I don’t buy it when he does it, and I don’t buy it when you do it either.

  14. Synova says:

    Wow, Lisa.

    I have a question. Do you like it when people tell you why you think what you think? Explain you to others?

    No one likes that. It doesn’t matter who they are, if they work for a living or if people call them “sir.”

    Personally, I admire brilliant people and am not at all intimidated by them. I’d much rather hang out with people smarter than I am. And when I do I notice that there are two sorts… those who take me seriously and those who take themselves seriously.

    Your points….
    1) Do YOU aspire to work an assembly line? I’ve done it. There’s something to admire in people who work hard. There’s little to *desire* about the work, however. Not usually. Some “work with your hands and back” jobs are better than others and people do chose them.
    2) Do you not see how claiming that people are led by the press and not their own understanding of their own lives is an insult? You can do it and who cares, right? But Obama is running for President.
    3) Sure it’s authentic to not bowl and to eat a $100 a pound ham without choking on it. But that’s no who Obama insulted. He insulted the *other* authentic people by suggesting that they don’t know their own minds. Plus, he was making excuses for them. How do you feel when someone makes excuses for you? “Give Lisa a break. It’s understandable if women get cranky sometimes you know.”
    4) ALL identity is artifice. DUH.

    And lastly… If you think that people who don’t like Obama are intimidated by his vocabulary, you really are a sad thing, aren’t you, and likely just as wrong as he is about understanding and describing the motivation of the “other.”

  15. Karl says:

    Sometimes an insult is an insult. You may not think BO’s comments are; PA voters may see it differently.

  16. MayBee says:

    I just think the initial reaction was: “Heh, yeah I agree” and now it is “Hey, was he sayin somethin shitty about me?”

    Do you think all those people read what Karl had to say?

    Obama didn’t make this speech in a small PA town. He said it to a bunch of wealthy donors with every expectation the word would never get out. It gave everybody a glimpse of what he says behind people’s backs.
    Even my life-long Dem husband said “oops!” when he heard it.

  17. alppuccino says:

    Lisa,

    I’d like you to do me a favor. Please watch a few episodes of Gilligan’s Island and pay strict attention to Thurston Howell III and his wife Lovey. Then read your comment #3 out loud as if your were Mrs. Howell. Tape it and play it back to yourself.

    “Do I really sound like that?”

  18. Lisa says:

    Jeffersonian: Seriously, I am a non-violent person. But my dad was in the military for 42 years and he took me to the range regularly during my childhood and teens. I know how to shoot (and I live in Baltimore so I have a reality-based view on the importance of protection). I just think this whole thing is ridiculous. But now that the press and the blogtopia has its new Al-Gore-the-smarty-pants-snob to kick around, we might as well just give Hills the nod and let McCain kick her lying ass all the way back to New York in November.

    (sobs bitterly)

    Whoever we choose, we will get what we deserve.

    And YES I am bitter that people like me get marginalized and thought of as effete, artificial snobs who “don’t count” as true red-blooded Americans.

  19. alppuccino says:

    And smoked ham is very bad for you. High sodium.

  20. Synova says:

    There’s a Charlie Rose (?) segment from 2004 with Obama saying almost exactly the same thing about the question of “What’s wrong with Kansas?” Which is sort of hard to do without implying that yes, something is *wrong* with Kansas! It’s excuses and it hasn’t hardly changed… excuses about “Why don’t these poor people vote for US since we’re all about representing poor people.”

    And now he’s essentially saying… it’s because they are poor that they don’t like us, even though we’re all about representing poor people.

    The question of “Why do these people vote against their interest?” is inherently insulting because it assumes two things… that the speaker knows what those people’s interests *are* and those people *do not*.

    No one has to be told to be insulted by that.

  21. Carin says:

    I think Lisa needs a hug.

  22. BJTexs TW/BP says:

    1. People are bitter…

    OMG, she’s right!

    I’M BITTER AS HELL AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!

    Yeesh, who are these “people” and why do they speak for me?

  23. Lisa says:

    Alppuccino, thanks for dismissing everything I said as stupid and thoughtless.

    I always appreciate it when someone gives me thoughtful feedback on why they disagree with me.

  24. alppuccino says:

    And YES I am bitter that people like me get marginalized and thought of as effete, artificial snobs who “don’t count” as true red-blooded Americans.

    People like you? Which particular kind of people?

  25. BJTexs TW/BP says:

    al: Lovey? ROTFLMAO!!!

  26. alppuccino says:

    Alppuccino, thanks for dismissing everything I said as stupid and thoughtless.

    It’s a gift. But thank you for being the first one (except for MayBee) to take the time to spell my name right. *sniff* You really are in the upper echelon. And, *lip quiver*, you’re a great American.

  27. Synova says:

    How are you marginalized as an effete artificial snob?

    Do you go around denigrating people who spend their free time manufacturing a trebuchet to chuck pumpkins for the town pumpkin chucking contest?

    Or spend a whole lot of time explaining how bad America is?

    If not, you’re good. No worries.

  28. MayBee says:

    But now that the press and the blogtopia has its new Al-Gore-the-smarty-pants-snob to kick around,

    It isn’t about Obama being a smarty-pants, really. It’s about how he will govern. He listed the problems he sees with PA voters. What are his policies that will make them cling less bitterly to trade, illegal immigration, religion, and guns? How does his disparate list indicate what choices he will make as president?

  29. BJTexs TW/BP says:

    Lisa, honey? why didn’t Obama make that speech in Hazelton or Scranton, or Johnsonburg or Altoona or Du Bois or Somerset or Carlisle or York or any other number of towns he might have passed through on his PA bus tour rather than to wealthy limo-liberals in freakin’ San Francisco?

    Take your time and don’t reply in the Lovey Howell voice. BTW: I live in PA so keep that in mind.

  30. Rob Crawford says:

    And YES I am bitter that people like me get marginalized and thought of as effete, artificial snobs who “don’t count” as true red-blooded Americans.

    You’re really missing the point.

    It’s more the sense of a sneer, of sheer condescension in Obama’s remark. “Oh, those people. They’re just worried about their jobs, so they’re lashing out against trade and immigrants. They draw SO much comfort from their guns and God, you know.”

    I don’t care if someone lives off brie, foix gras and caviar, so long as they don’t try to tell me they know the source of my opinions. So long as they don’t try to tell me what to think, how to think, and why what I really do think is so wrong.

    It’s really the same feeling you expressed, from the other side. The red-state rednecks (and I’ll take that label, if necessary) are tired of being told they need to STFU and start “voting their economic interests” — as seen by people who have never lived in that milieu — rather than vote according to their real values. We’re told we’re “not real Americans” because we live places where there’s no mass transit. We’re told we’re hicks because we listen to the wrong music. We’re told we’re hateful and cruel because we disagree on policies.

  31. Carin says:

    I understand, Lisa. Reminds me of something but I can’t really put my finger on it.

  32. Lisa says:

    #21: I do. I get so annoyed with the meme du jour.

    I had to stop and step back for a while. Read some good books and become engrossed in celebrity gossip.

    I have been doing good, staying away from all of the daily political controversies, ignoring the TV talking heads, bloggers, and op-ed pages. But I totally relapsed on this blog. Whenever I hear something interesting in the news, I am just itching to read what the gang here has to say about it. Then I read it and become enraged. Then I bitterly comment. Then I am giggling at the snark. Then I am off the wagon and back on the blogsauce.

    Sigh.

  33. alppuccino says:

    Laughter is the best medicine.

  34. Carin says:

    We hate women because we’re against abortion.

    We’re racist because we’re against racial preferences.

    We homophobic because we’re against gay marriage.

    It hurts.

  35. Karl says:

    Carin,

    I will try to remember to credit you if I steal the Jesusland point. ;-)

  36. Lisa says:

    Yeah but Carin: We got our snotty asses handed to us TWICE. We took solace in snobbery. Don’t tell me you guys didn’t send out bitter/funny/kinda-mean emails about Democrats during the brief Democratic winning streak of the 90s. I got a few of them.

  37. Dave in SoCal says:

    Lisa,

    Swooping in here in high dudgeon to explain to us r-tard conservatives why it’s stoopid to be offended by Obama’s comments really doesn’t make the point that you want to make. Just the opposite, actually.

  38. Carin says:

    Well, Lisa, we need a non-troll liberal, and sadly you’re all we got at the moment. So BUCK UP. We’ve got MONTHS of fun ahead of us.

  39. Carin says:

    About particular democrats? Yes. About entire demographic groups? No.

    Except smelly hippies. That shit is comedy GOLD.

  40. BJTexs TW/BP says:

    Here ya go, Lisa. Just for you to laugh.

  41. Rob Crawford says:

    We got our snotty asses handed to us TWICE. We took solace in snobbery.

    (Taking that comment seriously here. If you didn’t mean it that way, ignore me. Or not.)

    Why?

    I mean, seriously, why? Not denying there was bitter/mean humor from the right during the Clinton years, but I have to wonder — why did the Democrats/left retreat to a sense of superiority.

    It seems to me that it’s hard to appeal to voters when you carry yourself as their superior, and even harder to understand them.

  42. Carin says:

    And, in regards to the “conservatives are the uneducated masses ” stuff – I find that particularly irritating. As I mentioned in another thread, liberals often dance with glee over the stereotype of the toothless redneck – and how ill informed their political beliefs are. That’s entirely PC to do. But, how about I go to a hood in Detroit and start poking fun at the ill-informed populations there? They vote straight ticket Dem (and get driven to the polls in church buses) …

  43. Radish says:

    I have a serious question.

    We fetishize being Midwestern, Southern, wearing John Deere hats, being a cowboy, driving a fucking F-150, and “not being too much of a smarty pants” (which describes a character in a bad eighties movie played by Stallone or Norris) to the point where we actually do think this crap is real, and that everything else is artifice.

    Are you f-ing kidding me?

    That said, I think it’s interesting that our culture also fetishizes (not a word I’d normally use) an “authentic” urban “black culture.” You know, the one where impregnating multiple teenage girls makes you a bigger man, it’s expected you’ll pull out a gun if someone looks at you with “disrepect”, going to school and actually learning is dismissed as “acting white”, giving information to the police gets you labeled a “snitch”, and even if you could read well enough to get a job, working is “beneath your dignity” and how “society keeps you down.” If you learn to speak or don’t get knocked up, you’re not “keepin’ it real.”

    I don’t completely understand why Barack and Lisa are encouraged by their fellow sanctimonious jerks to snear at working people who wear seed corn caps, and I’m not allowed to express any disapproval about the lifestyle of the dropout racist thugs my tax dollars support.

    Maybe, since you’re so well-edjumacated, you can explain it to me.

  44. Lisa says:

    Karl, you would do well not to go with that particular line. You are SOOOO not the victim of the elitist city folk just because we make fun of you (might I bring up the endless years of fun you have made of those you call elitists?). You STILL decide the elections, you decide who is “authentic”, you decide what is important to “real Americans”.

    When was the last time Hillary, Barack or John came to my neighborhood or a neighborhood that resembled mine to see what I wanted for the future of America? Um, never. Never EVER.

    I know that you have been playing downtrodden guy who fights back and lets the artifical fancy-pants know who is a real American (like a bad Chuck Norris soliloquy), but it is just not true.

  45. Lisa says:

    Radish: Boy you see racial boogeymen everywhere.

    But I am not going to bite. Everything is NOT about race. Get over that shit. If you want to talk about the distructive lifestyle of many in the ghetto, feel free to do so. More power to ya, bucky.

  46. MayBee says:

    Karl decides the elections?
    Why didn’t you tell us, Karl?

  47. cranky-d says:

    Karl decides the elections?

    I had no idea. However, he seems very well-informed, so I’m not too worried.

  48. Cowboy says:

    We fetishize being Midwestern, Southern, wearing John Deere hats, being a cowboy, driving a fucking F-150, and “not being too much of a smarty pants” (which describes a character in a bad eighties movie played by Stallone or Norris) to the point where we actually do think this crap is real, and that everything else is artifice.

    John Deere cap, check.
    Cowboy, check.
    F150, check.

    You guys help me out here. Was I just insulted, disregarded, or called artificial?

  49. Rob Crawford says:

    When was the last time Hillary, Barack or John came to my neighborhood or a neighborhood that resembled mine to see what I wanted for the future of America? Um, never. Never EVER.

    Really? So you live in a state that’s pretty much a lock to vote for one party?

  50. jdm says:

    during the brief Democratic winning streak of the 90s.

    The reason for that streak was the combination of a reasonably and then ridiculously good economy, the MSM, but mostly because of an extremely talented politician as president. A president who never appeared to be the elitist SOB so favored by Democrats.

  51. BJTexs TW/BP says:

    Maybee: Psssst! Karl … Rove …

  52. Karl says:

    Bush liked to think he was the decider, but I guess the cat’s out of the bag now. ;-)

  53. Karl says:

    Cowboy,

    I think you blew it by being a smarty-pants.

  54. Carin says:

    I feel, like, really left out. I don’t own a John Deer cap, don’t drive a fucking F-150, and would make a rather sad cowbow. Yet, I’m not a blue-blood either.

    I feel so inauthenticity conservative.

  55. royf says:

    I couldn’t possibly feel any compassion for the trials of Mr Obama, because the words he used and the company he was in when they were used speaks volumes about the man and his beliefs.

    Now I hear how we need to take into consideration what he really meant by those words, unlike when President Bush landed on a US aircraft carrier to celebrate with those troops the accomplishment of their mission in Operation Iraqi Freedom. How many times must I listen to the lie that President Bush claimed the war was over that day when in the very speech he gave stated we were going to be involved in a “Cold War Era” or generational struggle.

    The “Bush Lied” meme and countless others over the last few years as well. The Democrats have been taking out of context and twisting President Bush’s words for years now and for what political advantage? No matter that this country is at war, regardless if it inspires the terrorists to kill another soldier or Iraqi citizen.

    No those are Barak’s words he can live with them.

  56. alppuccino says:

    John Deere cap, check.
    Cowboy, check.
    F150, check.

    Dude, you’re a fetish. Gross!

  57. Lisa says:

    # 42. That has become a bitter, anger inducing issue now. All of those reliable, ignorant people who vote for whatever establishment candidate the Dems trot out have become a source of great acrimony. Some pastors have been telling them to vote for Obama because he is black. But most of them like Clinton because she is allied with people like Andrew Young and Julian Bond. They trust that same old “we will give you entitlemtent X if you vote for me”, and they are resentful of the younger, more affluent generation that has no interest in entitlements and has never experienced bitter oppression. These people are more comfortable with the idea of a Barack Obama or even a John McCain.

    There has been quite the conversation going on among liberals. White liberals tend to be offended at the idea of asking this segment of black people to do something other than what their pastor tells them to do, but lots of people are not so deferential – including me. As a non-religious person, I am appalled at that kind of voting behavior. As a person who likes to think and make my own decisions, I am appalled by that kind of voting behavior.

    But it does kind of seem like both sides fetishize their less-than-affluent, the same way Bill Clinton once blathered about how much he loved his housekeeper, Odessa. Supposedly, she was the heart and soul of the family – a wonderful, warm hearted, loving embodiment of the sweet natured poor african american. But when they asked him what her last name was, or what her own children’s names were, he could say. Poor people are useful for our artifice and faux outrage – but we really don’t know them, do we?

    I bet when these same supposedly-insulted people vote for Hillary in November, Republicans will be lamenting how “brainwashed” the poor things are.

  58. Lisa says:

    #49. Yes. Damn your eyes.

  59. Rob Crawford says:

    #49. Yes. Damn your eyes.

    So the lack of attention you get during presidential campaigns has nothing to do with your socioeconomic status, and much more to do with the one-party lock on your state.

    I bet when these same supposedly-insulted people vote for Hillary in November, Republicans will be lamenting how “brainwashed” the poor things are.

    Some will. I doubt they’ll ever be contenders for the presidential nomination, though.

  60. Dave in SoCal says:

    #49. Yes. Damn your eyes.

  61. It’s a special kind of elitist. Obama’s remarks are straight from the Socialist Dialectic; he just left out the buzzwords. Comrade Barack was referring to the Mystification of the Masses by Anti-Progressive agents of the Capitalist Cabal. This fits nicely with the message of Obama’s church, which practices Black Liberation Theology, a Marxism-based created religion dedicated to the education of the Lumpen Proletariat and the overthrow of the Imperialist Oppressors.

  62. Synova says:

    You know, I think the fetishize thing is right… but it’s not bad. Everyone wants to feel that their own particular place is special and different. That goes for cities, too, though. It’s a sad thing if someone has been trying to deny that in their life because it’s silly, or something.

    People around here wear cowboy hats and boots and big buckles on their belts. It’s not a put on, but it is an identity choice. People where I grew up wear the John Deere hats and boots with steel toes and carry a trunk full of emergency snow gear in their car year round so the groceries have to go in the back seat. The clothing is practical and it is an identity choice. The snow gear, not so much.

    Most people either place wear clothes that are the exact same clothes bought at the exact same stores, watch the same shows on television, and have the same haircuts.

  63. Pablo says:

    But I totally relapsed on this blog. Whenever I hear something interesting in the news, I am just itching to read what the gang here has to say about it. Then I read it and become enraged. Then I bitterly comment. Then I am giggling at the snark. Then I am off the wagon and back on the blogsauce.

    Embrace it, Girlfriend!

  64. Lisa says:

    I meant to say, in #57: But when they asked him what her last name was, or what her own children’s names were, he could not say.

  65. Carin says:

    But it does kind of seem like both sides fetishize their less-than-affluent, the same way Bill Clinton once blathered about how much he loved his housekeeper, Odessa.

    But, liberals are the only ones who make FUN (in a rather mean-spirited way) of the uneducated masses of conservative voters, while turning a blind eye to their own. It seems a bit hypocritical.

  66. You know what really makes people in PA bitter? They can’t buy a six-pack at the WaWa.

    How anyone in PA can trust a govenment that has a monopoly on booze distribution is beyond me. I moved as soon as I could so I could get drunk like a civilized god-bothering redneck gun nut…in my truck.

  67. Lisa says:

    #60 LOL!!!!! Nice.

    #63 Hi Pablo!
    LOL! My kinda poetry (I am also fond of the ones that start with “there was a young woman from_____ who had a particular _____….”)

  68. Lisa says:

    Carin: SOOOO not true. You guys make fun of the stereotyped guy being lured to the polls by a 40oz of Old English 800 and an order of chicken wings. Not nice – though it made me snicker guiltily.

  69. #68 who exactly do you want me to vote for? And can I get some slaw with that?

  70. MayBee says:

    Lisa- Seriously. What did you mean by “You STILL decide the elections, you decide who is “authentic”, you decide what is important to “real Americans”.”?

    Who is the ‘you’?

  71. N. O'Brain says:

    If I ever buy a castle, I’m going to name it “High Dudgeon”

  72. Carin says:

    Lisa, you’ll have to direct me to such examples. I have no idea what search terms to even USE.

  73. Smirky McChimp (Formerly Andrew) says:

    I hail from the same state as Lisa. I work in Baltimore and I live in one of the numerous ghettoes outside the I-95 Corridor that has zero control over the state government. And it’s true: presidential candidates don’t visit the People’s State of Baltimorea because the People’s State of Baltimorea is as predictable as the tides of the Chesapeake when it comes to elections. Only time Republicans win here is when the Dems put up such a bad show that they lose everyplace else as well. And as long as the state is run by a bunch of tax-happy whores (such as Our Fine Governor, who I’m sure Lisa voted for) who earn their salaries working either for the Federal or State Governments, and who believe that everything not controlled by the first entity belongs to the second, that’s not going to change.

    OTOH, the roads are usually in good shape, thanks to the rest of you taxpayers. So, you know, win-win.

  74. You guys make fun of the stereotyped guy being lured to the polls by a 40oz of Old English 800 and an order of chicken wings.

    what.the.hell?

  75. Lisa says:

    Rob Crawford: You are correct. I see your point. It is more about the fact that my state is solidly, unequivocally blue than blue-collar class fetishization.

    I can’t even mount a very spirited defense of Obama. A few days ago I had a depressing argument with a friend about an artilce in the NY Times about whether someone could date a person who is not well-read. Whether someone LIKING the DiVinci Code or Dean Koontz is so revolting that it is a deal-breaker. I totally despise that kind of crap. WTF?!?! That is the kind of shit that makes liberals into caricatures (as a person who enjoys both classical literature AND cheesy vampire novels – I find that kind of intellectual snobbery offensive). So I suppose that people seeing effete snobbery in Obama’s remarks do not have to look far to see other numerous examples of that sentiment.

  76. Synova says:

    Reading books seems to be a relatively solo activity… why should it matter at all what your friend or lover is reading?

  77. Reading books seems to be a relatively solo activity…

    shows what you know. ;p course we read The Davinci Code together, so, um, there’s that. oh, and The Kite Runner.

  78. Synova says:

    Oh, and… cheesy vampire novels? You’re definitely authentic American. :-D

    My book tastes tend toward science fiction and romance and anything except “good for you” which lets “literature” out, but with music I’m as likely to listen to chant and polyphony or some other obscure thing or the radio station that plays Corn or Nine inch Nails and that other… stuff.

    Also… sushi is nice.

  79. Synova says:

    I read _The War God’s Own_ by David Weber out loud with my husband. I read, he listened. :-) It was a whole lot of fun, actually. The dwarf names made me want to knock Weber upside the head with something large and rather firm, but it was still fun.

  80. daleyrocks says:

    I think a good point was made earlier that Obama made his speech in San Fran rather than PA. I think he should repeat it in the Keystone State using largely his original words and see how it plays to give disbelieving libs a real sense of whether people consider it condescending. Something along the lines of the following:

    People of your ilk, you cling to your guns and your religion, your hatred of people not like yourselves….

    I mean, that doesn’t sound lecturing or condescending, if it was delivered to a bunch of retards who had no choice other than having to listen to the elitist twit delivering the harangue.

    Do people have a clue how insulting this jerkoff sounds to ordinary Americans?

  81. JD says:

    daley – In short, no.

  82. Rob Crawford says:

    A few days ago I had a depressing argument with a friend about an artilce in the NY Times about whether someone could date a person who is not well-read. Whether someone LIKING the DiVinci Code or Dean Koontz is so revolting that it is a deal-breaker. I totally despise that kind of crap. WTF?!?!

    I share that disgust with you. I’m certainly never going to hold someone else’s taste in reading materials against them. Or music, or movies, or just about anything.

    I say the same for politics, BTW. Respect my opinions and I’ll respect yours, and won’t try (hard :-) to change your mind.

    I won’t try to explain the details, but the person I refer to as The Librarian is an Obama supporter who “hates” President Bush. Yet if she asked, I’d drop everything to be by her side.

  83. BJTexs TW/BP says:

    Daleyrocks: I listed towns and cities in PA where Baracky can make that same speech and gauge reaction and see whether it was “twisted” or “taken out of context.”

    I’m thinking that ain’t ever a gonna happen.

  84. Lisa says:

    #82: That post just made me feel really glad. This is why I love this site so much (even you make steam come out of my ears as much as you make me laugh my ass off).

    #79: Yeah, Kilthandahknarthos?! Whuh the fuh? But I agree that it was a decent book. Speaking of fantasy novels, have you read anything by George R. R. Martin? Someone recently turned me onto the Song of Ice and Fire books. They are crazy-good.

  85. daleyrocks says:

    BJ – Thanks. I didn’t go back and see who mentioned it.

  86. BJTexs TW/BP says:

    Lisa: I’m a HUGE, HUGE fan of Songs of Fire and Ice. Very literate, dark, lush and the guy is perfectly willing to kill off great characters to serve the story. While I’ve been a big Sci. Fi. guy for many years I was never much into fantasy. My son gave me the first book and I was completely hooked.

    I’m having the shakes waiting for “A Feast for Dragons” to come out.

    BTW: George R. R. Martin? Absolute barking moonbat! :-D

  87. Radish says:

    Racial boogeymen everywhere? You’re the one who went off on “John Deere caps and pickup trucks”…

    make fun of the stereotyped guy being lured to the polls by a 40oz of Old English 800 and an order of chicken wings.

    The going rate in Milwaukee is $5.

  88. Lisa says:

    LMAO BJTexas!! Good to see you, btw. Yeah my jaw dropped from the first chapter of A Game of Thrones and it did not come back up until the end of a Feast for Crows (think that was the last one). People were screwing their brethren (literally and figuratively) throwing kids out of the window (while grinning charmingly) and all manner of madness. And yes, he is a DAMNED good writer on par with Jane Smiley or Cormac McCarthy. So BJ, do you want to go with me to beat him into finishing Dragons and stop blathering about football and politics on his blog? I am also a barking moonbat, but I dont give a crap how he feels about the election. He just needs to sit his nutty ass down and WRITE for the love of the Seven fucking Gods.

    Oh, and I will shit twice then die if he gets rid of Tyrion – love that guy.

  89. Lisa says:

    #87: That will get you a can of Old 8 and a chicken box.

  90. JD says:

    Lisa – I think that most of us take pains to separate the personal from the political. I suspect you would be great fun to share a meal with, despite being a barking moonbat, provided you forgive me for owning a John Deere. My father, who I respect more than any man walking, is completely in the bag for Baracky.

  91. Lisa says:

    Ok SORRY if I offended any John Deere wearing, F-150 driving folk.

    I dated a guy from Southern Maryland who was in possession of Deere cap, truck, etc. I am not saying that is a bad thing, it is just not representative of EVERYTHING that is American the way the press seems to elevate it.

    BTW, I was at his house one day, way back when sitting outside watching him do some yardwork when his dad drove up (in his F-150) crying. I excused myself but called later to see if what happened and if there was anything I could do (I got the impression that some family tragedy had occured). Turns out, this was February 2001 and the day a famous race car driver died. I had the urge to giggle, but then I thought of all of the people who cry when a musician or athelete that they revere dies. No one laughs at them. I guess I am saying this because though my instinct is to say people are being overly defensive about this current kurfuffle, there IS a sort of “permission to laugh at – not with (like Jeff Foxworthy good naturedly does) – working class white people” thing that probably slipped out from under the covers here.

  92. Lisa says:

    JD: Back atcha. I could bring the merlot and gruyere, you bring the steak and beer!!

  93. N. O'Brain says:

    Lisa, how about Pollo alla Bolognese with fettucini Alfredo, with a nice Pinot Grigio?

  94. Rusty says:

    Lisa. I know when I’ve been insulted. Anything on top of that is just condescention.

    I tend to wear racing caps.
    No cowboy boots, but Sketchers or vans.
    Dodge Ram 1500

    Guess what I do for a living.

  95. happyfeet says:

    It’s kind of stupid to cry when race car drivers die. You shouldn’t get that invested I don’t think.

  96. JD says:

    I got a little misty-eyed when Junior won Daytona after Sr’s death there.

    Lisa – Dead cow is my specialty. Not sure what gruyere is but it sounds French so it is prolly cheese. Since cheese and bacon are their own food groups, you are cool with me.

  97. B Moe says:

    Turns out, this was February 2001 and the day a famous race car driver died. I had the urge to giggle, but then I thought of all of the people who cry when a musician or athelete that they revere dies.

    That would have been Dale Earnhardt, and laughing would have been a very bad idea. He was quite literally revered by his fans, and was a legend in the sport. I don’t get that emotional about it, but it would have likely went over very poorly with your friend and his dad.

  98. royf says:

    Man I didn’t cry when Davey Allison got killed in a helicopter crash at Talladega in 93 but I sure got misty eyed. Especially considering everything the Allison family has been through.

    As for the tragic death of Dale Earnhardt it was sad and highly ironic that the only time in his entire career he was blocking for someone else to win a race he got killed. I have the utmost respect for Dale Sr, but he wasn’t my favorite driver that’s certain.

  99. alppuccino says:

    I consider myself very well read. And I got the maze on the back of the Cap’n Crunch box in 3 tries!!

    The Kashi Go Lean box reading was a little heavier but I plowed through. Knowledge is power.

  100. alppuccino says:

    I got downright blubbery when Darren Clark won his match at the last Ryder Cup after just losing his wife to breast cancer. But golfers are a whole ‘nother identity group that Barack has yet to tackle. Still waiting.

  101. Daryl Herbert says:

    Indeed, only 46% of liberals agree.

    High enough to win the nomination (especially because superdelegates are probably more likely to agree) . . .

    High enough that all the POOR WHITE TRASH can realize that Barack really meant it . . .

    But not high enough to win the general election.

  102. Daryl Herbert says:

    alppuccino, no one has done more for golfers than U.S. Senator Barack Obama.

  103. B Moe says:

    Adam Petty put a big lump in my throat. I had seen his first ASA race at a local bullring, didn’t know he was running until we got there, and then we see Kyle and the King crawling all over his car in the pits. It was a beautiful thing. Racing is my first and biggest love among sports, but man it is tough sometimes.

  104. alppuccino says:

    alppuccino, no one has done more for golfers than U.S. Senator Barack Obama.

    I didn’t know.

  105. happyfeet says:

    I haven’t had any luck finding anyone who’s really heard about none of this. But then these people are just sort of like that. Not really a good sample. But we’re really clear on Jessica Simpson being pregnant.

  106. Neo says:

    From the same ARG poll.

    23% of likely Democratic primary voters say that excessive exposure to Obama’s advertising is causing them to support Clinton.

    I’ve seen this sort of thing in my own district back in 2006.

    It’s a new phenomenon that campaigns will have to deal with .. Overexposure !!
    Too much money as a problem ?? Who’d a thunk it ?

    Who would have thought that having somebody constantly interrupting your life would cause you to dislike them ?
    I wonder what Obama’s mother-in-law is like ?

  107. alppuccino says:

    But we’re really clear on Jessica Simpson being pregnant.

    The younger Simpson sister is Maggie.

  108. alppuccino says:

    never mind. sorry happy.

  109. royf says:

    I believe the younger Simpson sisters name is Ashley.

  110. royf says:

    Oh that’s right its the real young one that’s PG. never mind to my last.

  111. Spies, Brigands, and Pirates says:

    Lisa: And YES I am bitter that people like me get marginalized

    People who see nothing wrong with their relatives attending racist churches?

    Marginalized?

    Good.

  112. Lisa says:

    #93: Delightful!!

    #96: LMAO!!! The reason why I will NEVER be a vegetarian is bacon. Mmmm.

  113. MayBee says:

    Lisa- who is the “you” that decides all the elections?

  114. guinsPen says:

    @ #23

    I always appreciate it when someone gives me thoughtful feedback on why they disagree with me.

    And I always appreciate it when someone asks me a thoughtful question.

  115. The Lost Dog says:

    Lisa –

    The Blogsauce is very captivating, huh?

    I am a riches to rags story, thanks to an insane wife who I still love dearly.

    My first car was a Porsche 912 (I was too young for a Turbo Carerra), and my second car was a ’72 BMW 2002 tii – which to this day still gives me a stiffy. What an insane car that was…It was very plrasant being a spoiled rich brat.

    But you know, being a street urchin has it’s points, and I resent Obama (and Hillary, for that matter) for trying to tell me I am not the master of my own fate. Don’t you get it? You make your OWN decisions, and then you LIVE with them! And if you believe some shill in DC is smarter than you, more power to you.

    Every day, I get up, brush off my knees, and go out into the world to try and prevent anyone from telling me I am too stupid to live. I fucking work for a living! And I am NOT jealous of CEO’s who make a ton of money. Lawsy, lawsy, lawsy! What a concept!

    But this is EXACTLY what Obama said, and EXACTLY what Hillary means: “Anyone who makes a lot of money (except for themselves, of course) is a thief, and the rest of us are too stupid to take care of ourselves, and therefore, the Constitution is null and void. WE will take care of you, as long as you give US most of your money – and then WE will decide how much you get back after we fuck up your whole life with what we keep.”.

    Jeebus! These people don’t appear to have ever read the Constitution (McCain also seems to be in the same boat i.e. – McCain-Feingold).

    Do you feel guilty about eating truffles for breakfast? You shoulden’t, unless you are a trophy wife with a huge guilt basket. Even then, you probably shouldn’t feel bad, but, unfortunately, human nature is human nature, and “Fie on the powers that be” – we are all born with an inate sense of right and wrong, as easy as it is to pretend otherwise.

    An inate sense of reality is much harder to come by, especially if you believe that the government is responsible for EVERYONE’S bad decisions.

    I deal with my own bad decisions, and it pisses me off mightily when Obama and Hillary call me stupid and racist because I don’t want them wiping my ass. And YES!!!!! That is EXACTLY what they are saying. If you can understand English, it is just a little too obvious…

    Give me a break. Take care of your own F’ing life. I have enough problems without Marxist idiots telling me that this country was founded on the idea of “equal misery for all”. I mean, stupid me, when Obama is going to take care of my every need. National health care! The government has already fucked up health care so bad that there are hardly any American doctors left. After at least ten years of sacrifice, they can make more money painting friggin’ houses.

    Just imagine when the bureaucrats (who used to write parking tickets) are telling your doctor what treatment he is graced to perform…

    ABSOLUTE FUCKING INSANITY!

    You want to be miserable? Be my guest. But, please! Don’t try to drag me into your own special Hell…Maturity does not come from your “government” protecting you from any form of reality. And poor or rich, wherever you go, there you are. It’s your job to pull it together, not Obama’s, or any other dirtbag who thinks he/she is smarter and better than you, or that makes you believe that you are smarter or better than people you don’t even KNOW…. HA! C’mon. Wake up before it’s too late…

    Happy Monday…

  116. tired critique says:

    Dear All,

    He’s right, just like he was right about race, if you changed the word “bitter” to “frustrated’ and “cling” to “vote on issues of guns, church, etc.” it would be a quote from Bill Clinton’s book. Every political expert knows he’s right, its the formula used by Rove to get people to vote against their interests, by having them vote on single issues like gay marriage, abortion, etc., they elect peopel that then build their careers on catering to the wealthy and powerful…i.e. the bankruptcy bill, the subsitdies, NAFTA, tax cuts (no estate tax vs. setting it at 5 million exclusion?) Obama’s campaign is a watershed moment for the US, it either reforms or continues its decline…But I am betting on decline as this firestorm shows once again that the Country wants to cling to its disfunctional view of itself, right as it spirals into the toilet.

  117. so, we’re all racist? thanks. asshat.

  118. Jeremiah Wright says:

    And if you change the words to “kill the rich motherfucking white people” that is a page from my motherfucking book, bitch.

  119. okay, calmer response. usually things that “everyone knows” are wrong. It’s nice to know that you think people that are different than you, that hold different views than you, are dysfunctional. perhaps next time, you could provide some data to actually support what you say.

  120. As it is this disposition which forms that difference of talents, so remarkable among men of different professions, so it is this same disposition which renders that difference useful. Many tribes of animals acknowledged to be all of the same species, derive from nature a much more remarkable distinction of genius, than what, antecedent to custom and education, appears to take place among men. By nature a philosopher is not in genius and disposition half so different from a street porter, as a mastiff is from a greyhound, or a greyhound from a spaniel, or this last from a shepherd’s dog. Those different tribes of animals, however, though all of the same species, are of scarce any use to one another. The strength of the mastiff is not in the least supported either by the swiftness of the greyhound, or by the sagacity of the spaniel, or by the docility of the shepherd’s dog. The effects of those different geniuses and talents, for want of the power or disposition to barter and exchange,

    cannot be brought into a common stock, and do not in the least contribute to the better accommodation and conveniency of the species. Each animal is still obliged to support and defend itself, separately and independently, and derives no sort of advantage from that variety of talents with which nature has distinguished its fellows. Among men, on the contrary, the most dissimilar geniuses are of use to one another; the different produces of their respective talents, by the general disposition to truck, barter, and exchange, being brought, as it were, into a common stock, where every man may purchase whatever part of the produce of other men’s talents he has occasion for.

    Shorter Adam Smith: men differ less than dogs. Think about it.

    yours/
    peter.

  121. Amandas vibrator says:

    #

    Comment by happyfeet on 4/14 @ 3:33 pm #

    It’s kind of stupid to cry when race car drivers die. You shouldn’t get that invested I don’t think.

    Juan Fangio is dead!?

  122. Lisa says:

    Maybee: I was kind of on a rant. I was referring to the rural or suburban, mostly white (but not necessarily), “heartland” (southern or midwestern) voter. I said “you” assuming Karl was one of these voters. Which is a silly assumption. For all I know Karl is a lobbyist living in Northwest D.C.

    Anyhoo, now I am tired and depressed once again. There is a good post on from yesterday about the politics of mutually assured destruction. We are toast in November, no matter who gets the nod. Hillary Clinton has revealed herself to be everything that all those right-wing “expose” books in the 90s said she was. Actually, both Clintons have revealed themselves to be rather nauseating. I really like Obama, he is a great American. But I have already filed him away in the Dukakis folder of history. He has allowed himself to be cast as a creepy, snotty, and tone-deaf dimwit. I am just waiting for the stupid “liberal-riding-in-a-tank” picture to seal the deal.

    I used to get really annoyed with people who only loosely paid attention to politics, and knew more about Lindsay Lohan’s visits to rehab than Condoleeza Rice’s visits to the Middle East. But I understand it much more now. My blood pressure lowers and my general sense of contentment is uplifted when I watch “Rock of Love” marathons instead of the Sunday news roundups.

  123. JD says:

    “tired critique” – Your rant is tired, indeed.

    Lisa – You and my Better Half must have comprised 25% of the viewing audience of the Rock of Love marathon.

  124. MayBee says:

    But I understand it much more now. My blood pressure lowers and my general sense of contentment is uplifted when I watch “Rock of Love” marathons instead of the Sunday news roundups.

    ha! It’s true, but maybe not so bad. The daily ins and outs of politics don’t really affect our lives any more than Brett Michaels does, and it’s all just theater. If you think of the campaign as reality tv, it’s much more enjoyable.

  125. Smirky McChimp (Formerly Andrew) says:

    Geez, Lisa you let my sally by completely. Did you vote for the Teflon Leprechaun or no?

    Or if you’d rather not, I will simply salute another Martin-ite. I eagerly await Dance of Dragons, and if you have any pull that could get George-y to get the lead out, I’d appreciate it. I’m disappointed to hear he’s a moonbat, but not too surprised. Shit, Steven Brust is a Trotskyite, and his shit absolutely rocks.

  126. Lisa says:

    Smirky, yeah I voted for the dimwit. I was dissapointed that Doug Duncan pulled out of the race. Duncan could be dosed daily with Thorazine, have weekly shock treatments and still out-think O’Malley. But I hoped that O’Malley would not turn out to be a stupid as he looks (though he is cute). Alas, he is dumber than he looks.

    I am a barking, howling moonbat – but even I can recognize that you have to cut SOMETHING out of the budget to get us back in the black. O’Malley has a childlike approach to budgeting that is like my neice who said to my sister: “Can I have that toy?” My sister: “No” Niece: “Why?” Sister: “Because I don’t have any money.” Niece: “Well go to the bank” Sister: “Girl, go somewhere and sit down.”

    Telflon Leprechaun indeed. That is hilarious. I have to tell my aunt, who came to visit me and saw him on tv and said: “Lookit that damn fool, Lord! How’d he get in there!?”

  127. James says:

    Obama’s derogatory remarks about rural Pennsylvanians were made in San Francisco to his rich campaign contributers, while he was pandering for more campaign funding, since the nearby Silcon Valley prospers by NAFTA at the expense of the “rust belt”. In other words, this is reminding me of NAFTA-gate in the Ohio Primary, where his Chief Economic Advisor told the Canadian Consulate Office behind closed doors that Obama’s anti-NAFTA public comments are only political rhetoric!! Obviously, Senator Clinton will win the Pennsylvania Primary by more that 15%, and that momentum will lead to many successive victories; for example, North Carolina is not happy with Obama’s “Bitter-gate” comments either!!
    Moreover, the superdelegates will then begin to swing heavily in favor of Senator Clinton, because she keeps winning the big delegate states that the Democrat nominee must win in November 2008.
    It is as President Lincoln said a long time ago: ” … you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.” !!

  128. McGehee says:

    I am a barking, howling moonbat – but even I can recognize that you have to cut SOMETHING out of the budget to get us back in the black.

    I’m sorry, but that second sentence contradicts the first.

    It’s possible you’re a yipping, singing moonbat. Those can be actually quite nice to have around.

  129. Lisa says:

    #128: LOL!!

  130. equitable life assurance society says:

    What a nice site, been surfing on it for the whole night and day and i neva got bored for a single minute. Keep up your good work and all of the best in everything you do! :-)

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