TNR’s Obama-friendly Noam Scheiber thinks it is time to toss Air Force Gen. Merrill A. McPeak (Ret.) off the campaign plane (figuratively), with his now-publicized claim that Jews in New York City and Miami were preventing the Israelis and “Palestinians” from making peace as the final straw. (Public opinion polls show broad support for Israel, but I digress.) The Atlantic’s Marc Ambinder sees it as a case more like the pastor John Hagee’s endorsement of John McCain than the Obama-Rev. Wright-Trinity controversy — one more attached to the campaign than the candidate. Hagee has not been a McCain adviser, but the bigger flaw in the analogy is its narrowness.
In writing about the “Obama Doctrine,” Spencer Ackerman posited the following:
When considering any presidential hopeful’s foreign-policy promises, it’s important to remember that what candidates say is, at best, an imperfect guide to their actions in office. What proves to be a more reliable indicator of presidential behavior is a candidate’s roster of advisers. (If the press had paid better attention, the country would have seen through Bush’s pitch about a humble foreign policy and realized that many of his advisers, including Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle, were conspiracy-minded warmongers.) Obama’s foreign-policy advisers come from diverse backgrounds… Yet they form a committed, intellectually coherent, and surprisingly united foreign-affairs team. (Shortly before this piece went to press, Power resigned from the campaign after making an intemperate remark to a reporter.)
Samantha Power could make a comeback in an Obama administration, however.
Given Ackerman’s characterization — and the idea that “personnel is policy” is not a new one in presidential politics – what McPeak said immediately before mentioning Miami and NYC is notable:
We don’t have a playbook for the Middle East. You know, for instance, obviously, a part of that long-term strategy would be getting the Israelis and the Palestinians together at… something other than a peace process. Process is not a substitute for achievement or settlement. And even so the process has gone off the tracks, but the process isn’t enough… We need to get it fixed and only we have the authority with both sides to move them towards that.
This seems consistent with Samantha Power’s prior comments supporting the imposition and enforcement of a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through a commitment of US troops. Indeed, like McPeak, Power has very publicly opined that the US invaded Iraq out of deference to Israel’s interests. These views are consistent with the bent of other Obama advisers like Zbigniew Brzezinski and Robert O. Malley, who tend to see Israel as a problem instead of an ally.
Obama’s longtime spiritual adviser, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, has a long history of anti-Israel bias, including but not limited to circulating the claim that Israel once worked with South Africa “on an ethnic bomb that kills Blacks and Arabs.â€Â  Indeed, the United Church of Christ of which Trinity is a part generally has an anti-Israel bias.
To be fair, Obama has a record of at least saying he supports Israel and its need to protect its security — and he has more moderate advisers like Dennis Ross also. But his voting record on Israel-related issues is mixed. His positions on Iran and nuclear disarmament are likely to give supporters of Israel pause. And Obama might be softening his rhetoric for the campaign, as he has in the past.
To frame the question as one of whether Obama has a “Jewish problem” suits Obama’s apologists, as there is scant evidence that Obama is anti-Semitic. It is fair to say, however, that many of his advisers tend to blame Israel for the Mideast conflict and suggest that it wields a pernicious influence over US foreign policy. It is also fair to say that Obama has been a member of a group for the past 20 years that has had a distinct and pronounced anti-Israel bias. Thus, it should not be surprising that voters may question whether Obama is as committed to the US-Israel alliance as he says he is when he is running for office.
well..if you read Jerusalem Countdown!, then you know that the peace treaty between Israel and Palestine being signed is thesignal for the beginning of the Apocalypse.
wat American president would want to be that enabler?
hehe
Hey look! I’m the first commenter in this thread!!
“Do as I say, not as .. um … my close policy advisors bloviate to the press.”
Fraud
Congrats on being first, alp!
Ah, to be a SUPER Delegate of the Democrat Party. If you are elected, serving in office, you have three questions to ask yourself before you cast your public vote for your choice of nominee:
1. Can I get reelected if all the Black Democrats stay home… except for the twenty percent that will vote for my opponent? (Bonus: What happens to the “locked” Senate/House majorities enjoyed by the Dems…?)
2. Can I get reelected if all the White Women stay home…except for the twenty percent that will vote for my opponent?
3. Can I get reelected without any votes or support from my Jewish Democrat constituency?
nishi, you’re an idiot.
why?
that is what hagee says in Jerusalem Countdown!….
the american president, whoever it is, negotiates a peace treaty between the Israelis and the Palestinians.
then the president of the EU, who is really the Antichrist, starts WWIII.
you can read it yourself.
in his own words, hehe.
Why? I have no idea. Genetics, disposition, generally sucky state of public education…but the fact remains, nishi, you’re an idiot, hehe.
Nishi is correct. Pastor Hagee is an “end times” enthusiast who believes peace in the Middle East is antithetical to his interpretation of the return of Christ. Many many people believe the same.
that is what hagee says in Jerusalem Countdown!….
the american president, whoever it is, negotiates a peace treaty between the Israelis and the Palestinians.
You also say that Hagee wants this to happen, which is odd since he doesn’t favor negotiating with the Palestinians. And according to you, wants the American President to start WWIII by nuking Russia. So apparently God has drawn up an Infallible Plan B for the End of the World, or some shit. I get confused at this point.
Question: Who gives a flying fuck what Hagee thinks?
well…..obviously pablo hunnie, if u had read Jerusalem Countdown!, and u only disagreed with SOME of hagees more controversial statements, u wudnt really want to be the american president that started WWIII, wud u?
Anyone?
umm..feets…i think that is disinformation.
did u watch this?
listen to wat hagees followers believe he is saying.
what they heard him say.
Many many people believe the same
And Lisa offers a link to authorative source quantifying the “many”.
Won’t you, Lisa?
in his own words, hehe.
nishi
How many members of Hagee’s church? Compare that with the total amount of Christians in the US.
So the idea that Israel-supporting Christians are doing it out of some nefarious motive is the kinda of anti-Semitism promulgated by moslems and leftists.
and max got showed the door for tryin to talk to the attendees about teh endtimes.
the badge ppls told him they werent supposed to talk about it.
That’s a touching sentiment, but some are concerned that the Zionism of American evangelicals stems from self-interest.
Jaysus on Pony, but the sneering condescension just oozes off the screen with that one. I would have bitchslapped the little nazi.
im just injectin a little humor via Jerusalem Countdown.
funnie book, IMHO.
an im sayin that if u were prez, an you gave any credibility to hagee, u might not want to rush to negotiate that treaty….and bring on the Apocalypse.
lawls.
feets, who yah gonna believe? Hagee in a semi-hostile interview?
or Hagee preachin to his fold.
What does Hagee have to do with anything though really… Other than it’s really pretty amazing that McCain’s campaign has been articulated in a way that such a fringe persona is willing to sign a non-aggression pact with him like that. What it testifies to I think is that both men are sincere in their commitment to a strong alliance with Israel, just like Wright’s endorsement of Baracky is a measure of their shared conviction about how white people are teh suck.
Interesting, because he wrote a HREF=”http://www.amazon.com/Jerusalem-Countdown-John-Hagee/dp/1591858933″>couple of HREF=”http://http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-End-John-Hagee/dp/0785273700/ref=pd_sim_b_img_1″>books saying the very opposite, Happy. Sounds like he needs to re-review Commandment #9.
Hagee did that to make money, Lisa. You sure accord a lot of integrity to a fatass Texas televangelist I think.
darleen, the polldata agrees with the interviewer.
the majority of jewish respondents dislike and distrust evangelicals.
moreso than blacks.
Crap. THAT didnt work out so well. LMAO!!! What I was trying to say is he wrote two crappy books that focused on end times prophecy, basically saying the opposite of what he said in that interview. He is a bit of a liar.
Max got showed the door because he looks, dresses, walks, talks and acts like the obnoxious, condescending prick he is. You still haven’t answered my question as to why an omnipotent God would have multiple plans and need fat old Texas hicks to help him destroy the world?
Of course Hagee is a liar.
What it testifies to I think is that both men are sincere in their commitment to a strong alliance with Israel
awww cmon feets u dont believe that. it testifies to mccains sop to the theocons without havin to saddle himself with huck as a vp.
I have much more faith in McCain. I don’t think he wants to recreate his own fantasy of “Left Behind” in Israel. He seems a tad more level-headed than that. It is just interesting that he has to mollify the loudmouth minority of nuts that believe that shit.
At least you have just crackpot religious groups you have to reach out for. We have crackpot religious groups AND a host of other cranks we have to “unify” before a damn thing can get done.
His pac-527 or whatever is pretty straightforward I think. The millions he’s raised for Israel is undisputed. Whatever his motives, he wants to be on the side of the candidate who is most mindful of the importance of that alliance. That’s all his endorsement is about. I think he figures that in future, co-branding now with McCain will lend him a bit of credibility. He knows everyone knows he’s a fatass Texas televangelist, so he leveraged the Texas primary to buy a bit of cheap grace is all.
There was every reason to be cautious that Hick could have had a strong showing in Texas. McCain is not naive about how the media works.
B Moes
…
i dont think this blog can actually support a discussion of free will.
i dont think…
That part was good, kind of fell off after that.
yup feets.
hagee an wright are similiar.
they are both sops to the whackjob segments of the two respective electorates.
Cowboy, did you not see alpuccino’s and my comments? Those were a hint.
Now look what you’ve done.
i thot mccains speech was quite good today.
id love to see him take Colin Powell as vice.
i love Colin Powell.
they are both sops to the whackjob segments of the two respective electorates.
zactly a lot I think.
they are both sops to the whackjob segments of the two respective electorates.
zactly a lot I think.
And if Obama had just used Wright to gain some votes in the Illinois primary, like he did in Black Churches all over the south and most to the big cities, it would have gotten exactly as much negative press as all those other relationships did. Zip.
I can’t believe you guys let the TTP derail another thread into a discussion of Hagee. The thread has nothing to do with Hagee. It has everything to do with the advisors Obama has chosen to lead his foreign policy construction. Hagee is nothing more than a guy who supports McCain. He’s not on the team, he’s not a 20-year spiritual advisor, and he’s not making policy.
Wright and Malley and Brzezinski and McPeak and Power are (or recently were) on Team Obama, and their views regarding Israel deserve the sort of inspection that Karl is inviting. Don’t let the idiot distract you with its lies. Its been discredited a dozen times a day for so long that it’s gone way past funny and into infuriating.
Please, for the love of Darth Rove, don’t engage the noisemaker. When it makes noise, swat it down like you would a dog at the dinner table. When it begs for attention, give it no notice. If you cannot resist a response, keep it simple and condescending, as though you were speaking to an ignorant child. Because you are. And ignorant children are not supposed to interrupt the grownups when they’re talking.
Karl included Wright though, so I don’t think nishi was too off-base. And really, McCain’s campaign deserves a ding for seeking Hagee’s endorsement, even if it’s nowhere comparable to Wright’s relationship to Baracky.
Also, this assertion is kind of interesting I think…
I don’t know if I believe that really, but Hagee does make it pretty plausible.
But for real, Baracky’s peeps hate Jews a lot. I think it’s largely social though. Kind of like what Ric says about the Free Tibet thing. A lot really they’d find a for real credible peace deal anti-climactic I think, and then they’d start to work on The Narrative what would be crafted to stoke Palestinian grievance anew. Victimy Palestinians are too useful to let go of, ever. People like that, what are simultaneously useful and feckless, are getting hard to find, days are.
Alp tried to prevent it. I helped a little.
It wasn’t enough.
The irony that Samantha Power, the’genocide historian’ doesn’t get is that she traffics in the same kind of loose conspiratorial associations that
led to the Rwandan,Serbian, Cambodian massacres. McPeak, the air force version
of Wesley’Crusher’ Clark is the same way. Brezinski, from his history of forming the ISI Gen. Intelligence alliance and promoting pipeline politics
in Central Asia;in order to deal with the Taliban is the same. Malley’s the same. Dennis Ross, to his credit, along with Wolfowitz, was one of the first to really notice the danger Saddam posed back in 1979! however, he sought to placate Arafat too long, as opposed to Abu Qurei or even Salam Fayad. Hagee’s said a lot of innapropriate things over
time, but finding the link between Ahmadinejad and a certain 6th Century B.C. genocidal Persian potentate is not one of them.
Why is questioning fealty to Israel some sort of measure of patriotisism? I don’f see it; a coldeyed view might sever the ties and make them create thier own peace for once.
Maybe, cynn, but our worth as an ally would diminish far out of proportion to anything we might gain I think. This is a big, big part of why Baracky’s peeps want to throw Israel under the bus. It may the most important reason, really.
Because it’s the only really decent country in the region; Jordan is runner up; Iraq is a work in progress. Because
most people using this morallyequivalent twaddle are flacks for truly vile regimes
like the Arabian kingdom or Syria. If we
really mean ‘Never Again; (we don’t but that’s our pretense; re;Darfur,Cambodia,
Rwanda, et al)McPeak, Malley, et al, want
Israel to retreat to the pre’67 lines; despite the fact that Arab states didn’t
need that excuse, for the three previous
wars (’48,’56,’67)prior to the West Bank settlements. That no one really gave a damn when Jordan seized the West Bank and
Egypt, Gaza; frankly they should have it
back; Hamas is an almost entirely Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood import.
Cynn, a Freudian slip in your spelling of patriotism?
Obama plans on fully defending Israel and the Joos so, sad to say, I’m going to have to toss you off Team Obama. Watch out for the sniper nests as you make your way to camp Hillary, ppppp!
But for real, Baracky’s peeps hate Jews a lot.
u cud be right feets, but i think jews will still vote for him……because…
from my link to darleen above.
“In the United States, the two groups that most ardently support Israel are Jews and evangelical and fundamentalist Christians. Jewish support is easy to explain, but why should certain Christians, most of them politically quite conservative, be so devoted to Israel? There is a second puzzle: despite their support for a Jewish state, evangelical and fundamentalist Christians are disliked by many Jews.
And a third: a large fraction of African-Americans are hostile to Israel and critical of Jews, yet Jewish voters regard blacks as their natural allies.
The evidence about evangelical attitudes is clear. In 2006, a Pew survey found that evangelical Christians were more favorable toward Israel than the average American was–and much more sympathetic than either mainline Protestants or secularists. In another survey, evangelical Christians proved much likelier than Catholics, Protestants, or secular types to back Israeli control of Jerusalem, endorse Israeli settlements on the West Bank, and take Israel’s side in a Middle Eastern dispute. (Among every religious group, those who are most traditional are most supportive of Israel. The most orthodox Catholics and Protestants, for instance, support Israel more than their modernist colleagues do.)
Evangelical Christians have a high opinion not just of the Jewish state but of Jews as people. That Jewish voters are overwhelmingly liberal doesn’t seem to bother evangelicals, despite their own conservative politics. Yet Jews don’t return the favor: in one Pew survey, 42 percent of Jewish respondents expressed hostility to evangelicals and fundamentalists. As two scholars from Baruch College have shown, a much smaller fraction–about 16 percent–of the American public has similarly antagonistic feelings toward Christian fundamentalists.
so..as hard as you try to superglue Farrakhan to Obama…i dont think it will matter in the voting.
those stupid jews, huh feets?
dont they realize hagee truly loves them and O secretly hates them?
In other words, please quit flogging immaterial differences.
Pew and Baruch are misleading cause they’re not controlling for educational differentials. The more exposed to academia people are, the more likely than the average American they are to disdain evangelicals I think. Jews are over twice as likely (58%) to have a college degree than “the American public (25.9%).”
It doesn’t like the link for the 58%…
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary*.org/jsource/US-Israel/ajis.html
(get rid of the asterisk)
Pew hates Jews a lot too I think.
haha, okfine i just love makin fun of hagee….hes so yucky…grossout!
Karl brought hagee up…i thot it was interestin that in Jerusalem Countdown! hagee predicts that a sitting american president will negotiate a treaty between Israel and Palestine and that single act starts the countdown that precipitates the ME into globalthermonuclearwar.
the problem between Palestine and Israel is not ideology….it is land. i certainly am interested in how team Obama proposes to solve the problem.
feets….wat are u sayin?
academe hates evangelicals?
hagee is yucky, but I can’t help but see more the irony is that Wright has been defended by invoking his speaking in a prophetic tradition that is outside the TWP experience.
written in childspeak:
hagees followers=everything
wrights followers=nothing
nishi=total hypocrite
——–
cynn,
You brought patriotism into it; I didn’t. All I’m saying is that people who do support Israel have reason to question Obama’s purported stance on the issue. And that some of his advisers seem to buy into the “US Joos control our foreign policy” canard, which says something about their judgment and Obama’s.
nishi, I think you’ve made a point of saying that, least that academics are anti-theocon. Please don’t make me search-fu cause I already popped sleeping pills. But really, you find that dubious?
No, here’s the deal. I think the Israel problem will be immaterial, as will the racial tag bullshit.
Both the left and right will be archstomped by the economy. They won’t know what hit them and they won’t know what to do.
O
cynn,
Possibly, as a campaign matter. But whoever wins does have to, y’know, govern. So having info wouldn’t be a bad thing.
hmmmmm…yup that is ironic.
i see Wright more as a grievance politics manipulator, an hagee as a pure nutjob dispensationalist.
that prophetic tradition is just chaff for both of them.
wrights tellin the ppl wat they want to hear! Amen brother! it isnt ur fault ur poor an stupid..whitey’s keepin u down…
i guess hagee is too….flesh melting off their bones…the righteous assumed into heaven….
all the sinful unbelievers drownin in pools of blood and fire….
i said scientists are anti-theocon….acuz the Wedge Strategy and shit like that.
that is interestin tho feets…the education differential…do u think ALL academics are anti-theocon?
or are all academics scientists?
I think I mostly agree, except for the only reason one would mention Hagee and Wright together is cause of their relationship to the respective presidential candidates they are associated with, and that relationship is so dissimilar that I think comparing the two like that is sort of misleading.
I think academics would be a lot more likely to define themselves in opposition to evangelicals than evangelicals would be to define themselves in opposition to academics. Definitely. I think academics find any validation of evangelicals personally threatening. Academics are kinda insecure like that.
oh. #63 was at #60
I think academics would be a lot more likely to define themselves in opposition to evangelicals than evangelicals would be to define themselves in opposition to academics.
I think jews would be a lot more likely to define themselves in opposition to evangelicals than evangelicals would be to define themselves in opposition to jews.
tautology
You don’t know how Obama thinks about anything; he exists in the unfortuate funhouse reflected by all these “advisors” you reference. I would really like to see both Obama and Clinton toss away their shields and stand in the open for once.
cynn,
Agreed.
that relationship is so dissimilar,
yah the congregational relationship O has with wright….no congregational association between hagee and mccain….
another relationship is the same tho…both preachers are extremist whackjobs bringin support to their respective candidate.
uniters, bringin in a votin block of the like minded.
And McCain, he isn’t in the funhouse so much as he is a regular carney trying to get us to fall for the easy cons…
Well, yeah. That’s the point.
You said…
so..as hard as you try to superglue Farrakhan to Obama…i dont think it will matter in the voting.
those stupid jews, huh feets?
dont they realize hagee truly loves them and O secretly hates them?
This is why Hagee.
Oh. That’s confusing cause it goes back to your #66. Hagee helps contain Obama’s Israel problem is the point. This is why you and Pandagon keep going back to that well.
Oh and yes – I think you did say scientists, not academics per se.
ah….hagee contains O’s Israel problem?
i was thinkin more that mccain wanted hagee so the theocons wud vote him even without huck on the ticket.
but then…u agree that jews dont like evangelicals mostly?
haha, the funhouse!
good one cynn.
pay to get in, pray to get out.
I don’t think Jews dislike evangelicals anymore than do people of similar education levels is what I was saying. Now you’re trying to use my sleeping pills against me I think. Tricker.
Cynn, when it comes to Israel Obama has already tossed his shield away. He’s answered questions concerning Israel and, contrary to typical Karl’s connect-the-dottery, he plans on remaining steadfast allies. All this is simply Cardinal Karl, the Kremlin jester, passing his collection plate of lies to the bigots planted in the pews.
Yes We Can to Justice and Equality! Yes We Can to Opportunity and Prosperity! Nothing can stand in the way of millions of voices calling for change.
We Want Change! We Want Change! We Want Change!
O
Dear Karl,
Ti ne zniyish govno.
Sincerely,
Russia
Thor, I am too terrified to respond to you. Even my cat won’t use her catbox.
Problem solved. I eat pussy.
One would think that thor would eventually tire of trying to bait me.
My current hypothesis is that thor may have short-term memory issues, so I’m trying to humor him.
karl, for the record, I respect you because you are are a deliberate and honest poster.
thor, I think you are a cheater and a liar, not to mention a lair.
Evens out, I suppose.
cynn,
Thanks. The respect is mutual.
Karl, the greatest mark of intellectual dishonesty is oversimplification. Far worse than riding dirty on Monica Lewinsky is a man who claims answers to the paradoxical are kept boxed in packing peanuts in his garage.
Cynn, maybe I misunderstood you earlier. For a moment I thought you flinched in your support for Obama. I, I, I have a hard time with that. Hillary will claim there’s a sniper in her snapper to get elected. She’s has a ten-point plan to save us from a sniper snapper crisis, and thirty five years of experience publicly servicing snipers, but Cynn, her vagina lies. There’s no sniper in her snapper. A sniper would have squeezed off a dozen rounds by now. She would be able to stay so wonderful with a belly full of hot lead, now would she.
Last sentence should be She would not!
Well, if I’m a liar then I should start telling the truth. The truth is I think Karl is a liar and his attacks on Obama are proof of him being more of a racist than he would ever care to admit to being. It’s OK if you’re that much of a racist in Russia, but not here. It’s their culture! And if you know anything about the Motherland you know how right I am. But Karl doesn’t, nor, I believe, has Karl read Obama’s books, which is strange for a man so myopically focused on putting words in Obama’s mouth and labels on his lapel. So it’s time! Time to tell the truth!
I like Barack Obama. I like John McCain. Truth! I believe both men to be good people. Libel Obama, libel McCain, libel Russia, and I will speak out.
Disrespect shared.
You, know, thor, I like you immensely. Can you tone down the gratuitious female body part references? Thanxs, Cynn
Normally, Cynn, I would not honor your request. So much vitality is lost sans slang. But since you’re talking only certain body parts, and if it will benefit the children, OK, even though Celine’s ghost will be terribly unhappy.
I’m not happy you called me a liar. What is it you believed I’ve lied about? Dan has my email address. I stand ready to send scans of my passport verifying my years in Russia and or fully clothed pictures of my girlfriend for verification of her stunningness, not that that outer beauty matters, but I do not exaggerate – cute, blonde. Oilwells? It’d take me a day but I can send a pic of a pump jack that has my family’s (meaning my last name) name on it, I mean, I haven’t lied about that or anything else.
I like you. I like your cat. I like everyone. Call me. I’ll tell you stories of such Russian depravity that you’d know you can’t make that sort’a stuff up, besides, as you’ll find, I’m just not that type. Even though he annoys me, I even like Karl. We Obamers are beleivers in the goodness hidden deep inside the most ardent Obama haters, except for Hillary, of course, because she is the devil’s bitch.
I don’t think Obama has an Israel problem either. If he did, he would have been summarily dismissed LONG before now. If someone REALLY has an Israel problem, AIPAC is all over it. I trust them on this because their full time job is to preserve the U.S.’s relationship with Israel. I know some very nice people who work for he American Israel Political Action Committee – they are not a bunch of morons that would carelessly overlook someone who want to alter America’s relationship with Israel. And they generally don’t hesitate to publicly criticize someone for having unproductive ideas about the U.S./Israel relationship.
Thor, you are hysterical. You are kind of a lascivious pig-boy. You will likely be sued into financial ruin for sexual harassment one day. But I like you.
Really? The guy went to a racist, conspiracy-mongering “church” for twenty years, and look how long it took for *THAT* to come out. Hell, Obama still hasn’t answered for that; all he’s done is whine and mewl and try to blame whitey for his own hate-filled heart.
Please: do not feed the fucking troll. Thank you.
#31
Time to change sides, Lisa.
McGehee @#37, Slart @90, re feeding the nishi troll:
Mea culpa. I had no intention of starting this nishi-frenzy.
I’ll take my penance and return to the lurker zone.
It’s ok, Cowboy; it takes a little bit of time for everyone to learn that nishi is actually a self-confessed troll, and even more time for everyone to resist getting sucked into feeding the fucking troll some more.
This isn’t conversation; it’s more like a feeding frenzy in reverse.
I don’t think Jews dislike evangelicals anymore than do people of similar education levels is what I was saying.
hahaha….oh, its teh demon education!
u’d think that, but u’d be wrong.
wow feets…that is the first kinda dumb thing i’ve ever heard u say.
are u sayin evangelical hatred is a positive correlate with education level?
arent there highly educated evangelicals?
Karl….i think wright makes ppl uncomfortable in direct proportion to the amount of influence their own minister/pastor/preacher has on their thought processes.
wright is a whackjob, sure but i’m not convinced that he an O are sharin a hivemind on the basis of 20 years church attendance. because i cant imagine any one person having that much influence over my own thought belief system. like Che! it just isnt relevent to me.
but it is highly relevent to ppl that are strongly influenced by the clergy figures in their own lives.
Karl is not a liar.
he just ….lacks a certain flexibilty of mind.
he’s not capable of guerrilla thot, of thinking outside the boundaries of convention.
its ok, not a lot of ppl are.
there’s only a handful left in Known Blogspace.
Rob, being anti-Israel is a whole different animal than the issue with his church. Anti-Israel candidates don’t even get off the ground in this country (Ron Paul is an exception, but that is because he had a weird, inexplicably virulent cult of crank supporters).
Obama has not “blamed whitey” for anything. Please quote ONE instance where he blamed whitey. Don’t be immature. THIS http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/archives/2008/03/beyond_racism.html should be required reading for you. She is the ONLY conservative blogger so far who has been able to talk about race without being a defensive crybaby.
jews dont really dislike evangelicals!
its just teh education talking!
hahaha
Where’s nishi been?
h/t McGehee
you know feets…..could it just posssibly be….that jews are just intrinsically smart enuff to unnerstand that hagee wants to use Israel as a staked goat to bring on the Rapture in spite of w/e lies he tells the press?
100
18,000 in hagees personal church, Karl….but evangelicals make up 1/5 of the electorate and 1/3 of the republican party.
i’ve heard GW described as an evangelical.
think about the survival instincts of the jews…ppl have been tryin to wipe them out for centuries.
finely honed i wud guess.
sensitive to nuance.
Lisa – I am just a TWP. I am not entitled to an opinion, nor can I understand that black experience.
100th!!!
Major John is going to come back and kick all of our asses for letting the shrieking nishimbecile hijack the entire comment thread for 100 comments to Hagee, a pinhead contributor to the overall political landscape. Thus the original topic, which was Obama’s burgeoning problem with Jews over Wright’s missives about Israel and the so called “ethnic bomb” are sidetracked, which was her purpose!
IGNORE THE THREADJACKING VIRUS!!!
People like nishidiot, and the media that constantly harp of them, consider evangelicals to be anyone to the right of McCain. Seeing as how the cannot correctly identify them, why should we think that they could properly count them?
There is not much nuance in Jeremiah Wright’s message to the Joooooooos.
Thus the original topic, which was Obama’s burgeoning problem with Jews over Wright’s missives about Israel and the so called “ethnic bombâ€Â.
Letting Hamas advertize in your Sunday bulletin is a message devoid of nuance.
Well, JD TWP MCB, I’m thrilled, as a self described evangelical, to be broad brush tarred as an anti-science, snake handling, Catholic bigot, Israel pimping fanatic who controls the ‘Thugs, is responsible for unfettered population growth and future horror and for everyone who dies from Parkinson’s and Altzhiemers because I won’t recognize the simple, non-moral scientific truth that fertilized human eggs and embryos are nothing more than chunks of cellular meat.
Stop engaging the genocidal, ethicless, redundant virus.
There is not much nuance in Jeremiah Wright’s message to the Joooooooos.
there is only nuance in hagees message for non-jews.
thus the pew poll results.
i think…..hagee and his ilk are mccain’s Israel problem.
right Karl?
Point well taken, non-baby killer.
not that u care about the jewish vote anyways.
Congrats Pablo
BJ TW&BP – The nishidiot is hell-bent on tying Hagee to McCain in the manner in which Wright has been tied to Baracky, that is most certainly clear. That it has not yet happened seems to practically enrage it, to the point where it advocate genocide. Scary.
If you’re talking about the troll, you’re still feeding the troll.
Not even the troll believes what the troll’s saying. There’s no reason to engage.
There’s no reason to engage.
But there’s no rule against ignoring the troll in the most creative way possible, right Slart?
And Obama doesn’t?
Odd. That seems to be a major message of the “church” he attends. Are Obama’s defenders back to claiming he doesn’t agree with its basic teachings, despite 20 years of attendance, etc?
I mean, as parents, I think we’ve all, at one time or another, ignored children, and even twisted the ignoring knife a little to incite a spinning, breath holding, coughing and gagging tantrum. You know, for the comedy benefit.
Jews love Barack, who said they didn’t? Oh, sorry, Karl did. Honorary asswipes sitting on an election advisory committee does not an official Obama foreign policy make [sic]. What Obama says? Fuck that, it’s connecting the dots of what honorary asswipes say they tell the tale of the tape!
Weirdos. Restless weirdos with, at best, contrived projections! You’ve gone mad off your own fumes. It’s silly hour, 2-dollar highballs and buck-fifty ears. Good God.
oh, hagee is tied to mccain in one exact way that wright is tied to O.
both whackjobs deliver voters.
it just amuses me to see the theocons so exercised about divining O’s position on the future of Israel.
when actual jews pretty much despise them.
isnt it interesting that jews trust afro-americans more than evangelicals?
i wud prefer that O and mccain wud both repudiate their respective completely.
but wudnt that disenfranchise the whackjob vote?
It’s like thor saying that he’d gladly post fully clothed pictures of his PGA-grade girlfriend. That can only mean that there’s a FUPA under those Anne Taylors.
respective whackjobs i meant
i wish O had made the speech VDH wrote at NRO.
but he didnt.
:(
Jeez. I put it more like people what come out of the milieu of academia are more likely to disdain evangelicals. That’s true a lot I think. Academia only very loosely correlates with “education” I think.
feets arent there any evangelicals in academe?
There’s Bob. He lives in Tennessee. He wants to be an accountant. Also, Karen in Texas went back to get a masters so she maybe can be a vice principal someday. They love Israel very much, and eagerly await the return of Jesus.
why cant i link that speech?
for me, academe==universites and colleges
wat does it mean to u feets?
Not a whole lot, really.
i usta wear a lot of ann taylor when i started work.
but the guys in my group said it made me look like a secretary.
so now i wear jeans
speakin of, i gtg.
Administrative Professional’s Day is coming up soon. I saw it on NG’s dayplanner.
Also, I’m not being dismissive so much as just on my first cup of coffee. Thursday. That’s just stupid.
happyfeet, please stop conversing with the TTP – it is a religious bigot and a Nazi, so conversing with it gets you doubly dity.
I really thought she was going somewhere with that though, but it was a lot circular I think. I may have to reread later to be sure.
The genocidal race-baiting 145 tends to be a bit circular.
Rob: The basic teachings of the church are the BIBLE, from all accounts. It is not “the Church of the Cracka-Assed-Cracka-Muthafuckas” with some “Bible of Honkey Hate”. They (from most credible accounts) read the BIBLE and consider that their “basic tenets”. Yes, it is reprehensible that the dude used the pulpit to talk about conspiracy theories and other crankery. But I hardly think that your statement “Obama blames whitey” is truthful.
I have attended church at the invitation of friends where the pastor ranted and raved about gays, liberals, women who work and have the nerve to look pretty, and various other idiotic, bigoted crackpottery. My personal opinion was that I would NEVER return to listen to such garbage (even if I were an Xtian). But do I think they are all bigots and sexist assholes for staying? No. I don’t know what makes people listen to ridiculous bullshit from their pastors year after year. But religous people do it all the time. They get invested in their fellow parishoners, the work that the congregation does, etc. And they just don’t want to go.
I don’t know. I can’t explain that phenom, because I don’t beleive in any of it. But I am not so hostile to religion that I can’t understand the emotional attachments that bond people to a congregation that is headed by an apparent moron (being a kook and a moron is sometimes even seen as a GOOD thing by many religious people – who tend not to measure a persons faith by reasonable standards, but by their fiery-ness and intensity).
I should amend the last statement by saying “by what I CONSIDER reasonable standards”.
happyfeet: you’re a better than to associate with this latest TTP.
it is a religious bigot and a Nazi,
nah, im an elitist intellectual snob and a sufi.
feets i think ur definition of “academia” is different than mine.
id be interested to know wat it is.
Lisa – You are willing to forgive an awful lot. You should be former Governor Spitzer’s preacher.
And, though Karl has outlined it repeatedly, and far better than I am about to, the Black Liberation Theology is only loosely based on the Bible, insofar as it re-defines the nature of God only looking out for Blacks.
Other than claiming to be an intellectal, is there any proof of that?
“academia†is like pornography a lot I think.
JD:
I am thinking that our dispute is not that Black Liberation Theolgy is antithetical to good race relations, but just HOW deeply enmeshed in this theology this church is(none of us know because we have never been to this church – I have a cousin who is a member, but we don’t talk about church or anything because I am the crazy agnostic of the family).
As I said, from having attended many different churches for special occaisions with friends or family, I know there is almost ALWAYS the message of “God looks out for the little guy, the oppressed, the reviled and despised, etc. They almost ALWAYS extrapolate that message to “God looks out for minorities because they have been treated like crap”. Sometimes they are pretty fucking wild sounding, sometimes they kind of softly say the meek (minorities) shall inherit the earth. That stuff has a long tradition going way back to the conversion to Xtianity by the first colonials. It was comforting to know that even though everyone else thought you were a dirty savage who was 2/3 human, that Jesus really thought you were pretty swell and was going to eventually fuck your enemies (colonials) up for all of their wicked deeds.
I have never heard anyone talk about Wright’s particularly crazy conspiracies in a majority black church, but I have heard them rail against the Tuskeegee experiments, slavery, segregation, Lee Atwater, Robert Byrd (still don’t trust his white ass), the U.S.’s Africa policies as a whole, white supremacy…..the list is endless.
I am just hesitant to label that “Black Liberation Theology”, which is something I have always thought of as separate from the typical afro-centric stuff you hear at a black church.
Maybe I am wrong. Maybe it is time for black people to stop using their churches as a place to rant about race issues. But somehow, I doubt that will ever happen. Christians have a habit of thinking they are right. Period. They are not exactly the most self-critical group of people I have ever encountered. So I won’t hold my breath. I am certain that if someone from Obama’s church read Karl’s posts, they would dismiss itwith a quick “The devil is a liar and I rebuke him in the name of Jesus”. Any criticism of a bunch of Christians or a Pastor falls right into line with their certainty that, like Christ, they will be attacked and persecuted.
Sigh.
HOW deeply enmeshed in this theology this church is
Trinity makes the claim that they base their theology on it, and Cone makes the point that Trinity is a shining example of BLT in practice. But, you are free to ignore them. Of course, other people know more about them than they know about themselves.
JD: Well if James Cone (the Big Daddy of Black Liberation Theology) says it is so, then it is so.
Like I said though, these people are Christians. They are going to see any criticism of their Christianity as the anticipated attack of Satan, as Jesus told them would happen.
I am not questioning whether or not they are Christians. I am just pointing out that a theology that posits a black God that advances a race at the expense of others is decidedly non-Christian.
Lisa @ 96: Obama has not “blamed whitey†for anything. Please quote ONE instance where he blamed whitey.”
When Obama talks about greed in terms of it’s whiteness, you don’t find that problematic or divisive?
Don’t you think it would be legitimate to get him to expound on that point- like describe the effects of black greed on the eco-system, or perhaps explain the economic pitfalls that are associated with all that Asian Greed?
I have been hesitant to say this because I am not a Christian. It seems stupid for me to argue about various permutations of Christianity and their validity when I consider it ALL invalid. But I must just come right out and say it (because I am the only one who has read or who will ADMIT that she has read Dr. Cone’s work).
Some background:
Cone is a protestant minister who grew up in Arkansas under the heavy hand of segregation, Cone observed first-hand the way white Christians treated blacks  even after desegregation was ordered by the federal government. The Christian messages of peace and brotherly love contrasted sharply with Christians’ bigoted behavior, and this left a lasting mark on Cone’s thinking.
Eventually Cone developed a “black theology†of liberation from oppression, racism, and poverty . Cone argued that the white church and white theologians had all failed in their duties to uphold biblical principles of helping the poor and marginalized of society. Indeed, Christians had become actively complicit in making the lives of others worse.
Because of this, it was no longer acceptable to leave the interpretation of the Bible to white Christians. Blacks must take responsibility for their own religion and their own relationship with God. Black liberation theology has a great deal in common with the Black Power movement that also developed in the 1960s. In his book Black Theology and Black Power, Cone writes:
“A moral or theological appeal based on a white definition of morality or theology will serve as a detriment to our attainment of black freedom. The only option we blacks have is to fight in every way possible, so that we can create a definition of freedom based on our own history and culture. We must not expect white people to give us freedom. Freedom is not a gift, but a responsibility, and thus must be taken against the will of those who hold us in bondage.â€Â
White Christians in America might have preached a message of love and peace, but at every turn they failed to live up to their own words. The existence of segregated denominations and segregated churches proved this. Cone could also point to the long history of Christian theologians using religious arguments to defend both slavery and segregation.
Although Cone’s most obvious target was racism, his message was actually much broader. He also criticized middle-class black churches and argued that racism was only part of the problem. The much larger issue was the failure of Christianity to properly motivate people to care for others. Instead of acting on Christian principles of love and charity, they remain isolated in social or cultural groups.
Cone could also at times find some good things to say about white European theologians. He pointed to the examples of Karl Barth and Dietrich Bonhoeffer who, at great risk to themselves, used their theological writings to aid resistance to Hitler. Against this Cone contrasted the passivity of American theologians in the face of oppression aimed against blacks and other minorities.
Most of the time, though, Cone was critical of the ideas of European theologians that were part of the American experience. He noted, for example, that many white Christians emphasized ideas like justification by faith and grace as central Christian themes. Against this he argued that, from the perspective of black Christians, the idea of liberation from oppression was much more important and had a much more immediate relevancy to their lives.
The story of the Jews’ liberation in the book of Exodus naturally figured prominently in Cone’s arguments. Cone also cited the prophets, many of whom were frequent critics of the status quo and the failure of Israel to properly fulfill their duties to the poor in society. In both the Old and the New Testaments, Cone identified the establishment of justice for all, rich and poor alike, as the key principle that God has been trying to get humanity to understand.
This is the James Cone that I read and loved in college. Cone’s challenge to Christians to reject the idea of classism and racism pissed a lot of people off. But it is not wrong. It is pretty pathetic to call yourself a follower of Christ yet rail against helping the poor and oppressed because they are “lazy and no good”. The most important thing anyone can do is help those who are less fortunate. I am not talking throwing a couple of dollars at a charity so that your quarterly “charitable giving” numbers look good. But really investing yourself. Isn’t that what Christ exhorted us all to do. No one lives up to that shit, of course. I know I don’t. But Cone’s only “crime” was to nail the majority for their lazy, racist, classist apathy and tell black people to take responsibility for their own walk with Christ – and try to do a better job at being Christians.
This is why you are so mystified at why no one is really ranting about Black Liberation Theology. They may dismiss Pastor Jeremiah Wright as a crank, but no one who really knows anything about James Cone is going to shoehorn Black Liberation Theology into some crazy hate group. It is a RESPONSE to what was at the time White Christian Sanctioned Hate – not with more HATE but with pointed, well-deserved condemnation.
Nothing said about white people could possibly be considered to be racist, Victor.
Meanwhile, after discovering that Jesus was black, and that Jesus was a Jew, and that Jews were, therefore, black, I come to the unavoidable conclusion that black people killed Jesus.
Not really, but it’s certainly a realizeable result, given the logic employed by Wright and his enablers.
Sure, one can leave the interpretation of the Bible to those who, for instance, don’t read Hebrew or Greek. That way, you can get any result you want.
Sure, if one completely ignores the thousands of white Christians (and, yes, agnostics and such) who fought and died to abolish slavery, as well as those who fought segregation and other inequities. But they were white, and white is as white does.
An amusing side note: Jeremiah Wright’s namesake, the biblical prophet Jeremiah was persecuted (and thrown in jail numerous times) for:
1. Saying unpatriotic things about the state.
2. Criticizing the majority.
3. Being an asshole.
Cone acknowledges those who went against the majority and fought for equality. But the majority of white Christians actively or passively supported oppression at the time.
Slartibartfast: What is so abhorrent about the idea that Jesus was not blonde and blue-eyed? When white people express horror at the idea of a non-white Jesus, it reminds me of the movie “Trading Places”. Such a slippery slope into evil: First it is a black Jesus, next Eddie Murphy has moved into your house and you are homeless cavorting with long-legged hookers on the streets.
Which time are you referring to? There was a poll?
Did I say that in invisible pixels, again? I’ve really got to stop doing that.
Lisa – Karl has written literally volumes on this topic. But thanks for the refresher. What is it’s context today? What is wrong with striving to be in the middle class? Why is white greed worse? Why is it acceptable to preach idiocy, and someone that dreams of being President not say anything until that idiocy hurts him politically?
Yes Slartibartfast: Secret invisible pixelation is one of the many interesting things that the Starship Bistromath can do.
I’m now telling you, in invisible pixels, that Jesus had the complexion of a Swede.
The hair, though, was mostly Sun-In.
JD: “What is wrong with striving to be in the middle class?” I do a bit better than that, personally. However, I never said it was wrong to strive for that. What on earth are you babbling about? “Why is white greed worse?” Where, in any of my posts was that posited? “Why is it acceptable to preach idiocy and someone that dreams of being president not say anything until that idiocy hurts him politically” Why not? People don’t have to answer for what someone else says unless it does – idiotically and cravenly – get tied to them by the hacktacularness that is our so-called intelligent political discourse. Both sides do this shit, and the candidates do the dance, as they are instructed by the braying, slobbering noise machines.
Slartibartfast: LMAO!!!!!!!! Hmm, like Ashton Kutcher with highlights? Sounds hot.
We may not agree on this issue so much, but I dig you.
(I count myself as part of the braying and slobbering, since I have been guilty of ranting about Bush going to speak at the excreble Bob Jones University)
Comment by Lisa on 3/27 @ 10:33 am #
When white people express horror at the idea of a non-white Jesus……
When I staged my original play “Hank Aaron: The Pinata Years, black people could not get used to the idea of a Mexican Hank Aaron. People.
Can ya quote anyone saying any such thing?
Really? Because the only place I’m aware of “white people” doing any such thing is in the imaginations of liberals.
That would be bad. Who does that?
And, seriously, you’re claiming that Cone’s peculiar interpretation of Christianity is OK because there were idiots making the directly opposite claims? Why is it understandable for him, reprehensible for others? As has been pointed out a millions times, if the parties and the colors were reversed, the candidate would have been ejected from the party already.
Lisa, I’m all about being dug.
Seriously, though, I don’t think there are all that many people who take the blond/blue-eyed Jesus image seriously. There’s a BIG difference between Nordic Jesus, though, and Zulu Jesus. I think the reality is probably more of an Arabica coffee Jesus, but I think Wright’s ministry is focused on blacks of African (really, isn’t there a better term than “negroid”? I’m so out of descriptors) appearance. You don’t, after all, see him catering to the middle-eastern Semitic types, or the deep chocolate folk of southern India, or the Aborigines of Australia.
Shorter me: you can’t remake Jesus in your image, just because you feel something about His teachings are of particular interest to you or your culture.
I hope none of the above offended, because I’m more about making fun of ideas than of people. And I think some of Wright’s ideas are eminently ridiculable.
Hopefully that last is even a word. If not, it should be.
Nowhere does it say in the Bible that minorities are the meek, and anyone who makes that leap is making a mistake. Jeremiah was a prophet. He was receiving instruction from God, so comparisons to Wright on that mark are also off.
The problem with the “there are other bigoted churches and bigoted churchleaders and bigoted churchgoers out there” is that it quite misses the point that none of them are asking for our vote to be the leader of the free world. I can still worry about them, but I am not about to give them power over me so it isn’t an immediate worry.
That’s one of the “tenets” of Obama’s faith!
The one scene where Martilleo de Henrio swings so hard that his sombrero goes spinning up into the sky is an allegory for The Ascension. It kills.
Funny how Lisa puts it; Jeremiah was preaching the following: 1)Saying unpatriotic things about the state. Mind you, she’s talking about the
Jewish kingdom of Judah, stuck between Egypt and Assyria (read that
Syria and/or Iraq) I guess that settlement policy in the ‘occupied territories’ goes back a long way. As a matter of fact, he admonishes
them for trusting in those two powers over God. Ironic, this is kind
of what Lisa recommends for Israel (Jeremiah 2;18)He predicts the fate
that Judah will suffer before the Babylonian fate (Jeremiah 4:19-31) and
then portrays the fall (Jeremiah 6) It goes on like that for a long while
covering the other two points 2. Criticizing the majority. the last is an opinion of the reality based community; both then and now. Hanakiah’s prophecy,(Jeremiah 27-28) in fact sounds very much like Obama’s speechs in fact, false confort that will prove very destructive in the long run. Next
time, try to pick passages, that you won’t pwn yourself with
alpuccino – I just got G2, and a mouthful of burrito, all over my desk.
And let me tell you, it is no small feat to get a mouthful of a LaBamba steak and chicken combo Super Burrito out of your nose.
Are you gonna eat that?
Rob:
Actually the doctrine expressed is that blacks should strive for middle income rather than middle class. The “reasoning” is that allowing oneself to be “seduced” and “hypnotized” into the white dominated middle class would cause one to wrongly believe that one has a status, which is illusionary.
I know, I don’t get it either.
Lisa, as a church going fundie Christian TWP who has been to numerous churches, largely white, predominantly black and multi cultural (Brooklyn Tabernacle comes to mind on the latter,) my opinion is that people do not stay at churches where they consistantly hear doctrine and/or politics that don’t suit their core beliefs, especially if the statements are provocative and controversial. In fact, people will leave churches for what most would call important issues and what many would consider petty nits. The uses of church money, for instance, is probably a far greater reason for whites to leave churches than blacks. Blacks do tend to be more cohesive, consistant and insular but they are also likely to skedaddle if there are serious moral or doctrinal issues.
Also it should be pointed out that Liberation Theology has cut a fairly wide swath through both main line protestant and Catholic churches, white, black or hispanic. It is part and parcel of the liberal/conservative tug of war that is being played out across Christian denominations. These aren’t so much political tussles as Scriptural authority to dos, the idea that a secular social justice issue can be raised to dotrinal standards without sufficient Biblical authority. These sorts of arguments lead to people not only leaving individual churches but also entire organizations, sometimes founding their own denominations within the greater framework of denomonational doctrine but separate from a ruling body plying a tenet that is anathema to the dissenters.
The above is a wordy way of saying that a church that proclaims as a central tenet the core ideals of BLT and reinforces it consistantly in worship and published material has de facto adopted it as an essential doctrine. I strongly believe, based upon my experience, that the vast majority of congregants would leave a church if they disagreed strongly with the core ideals of that doctrine. Some wouldn’t due to factors of familiarity and relationships (and yes, there are Liberals and Pro Choice people in my conservative fundie church.) It is not impossible for the Obamas to reject the more racist elements of BLT within their church’s structure and continue to worship there for a host of other reasons.
However, Barack has not directly answered that particular question and, due to the parsed, all things to all people nature of his speech on race, that question still remains. I am of the opinion that he dares not tackle that particular subject head on as he runs the very real risk of alienating some part of his base, be it some blacks, white secular liberals or white liberal Christians.
The more volatile and controversial the doctrine, the more likely a congregant will decide to use it as an excuse to leave.
Al: Only you can make me go ha! and Ewwww! within 2 comments.
I bow to you, sir. You and feets bring the sublime to the absurd.
Oh, and Blackwater … but not Halliburton.
Al: Only you can make me go ha! and Ewwww!
Sadly, my wife says the same thing when I’m walking out of the shower.
alpuccino: LOL!
slart: ridicuable should indeed be a word. and no, none of that offended. excellent post.
bj_texs: As I think Rob has stated before: Cone is a Marxist, thus, class constructs are an anathema and should be rejected. It is stupid. But it is one of those Marxist tenets that make perfect sense when you are drunkenly discussing it at 2am with a joint in your hand, but is not so clear in the reality-based realm. Great post. You are right. I think he needs to continue to address the question as well. And include himself in the “national discussion”. To make a speech and then sort of haughtily expect that everyone “discuss amongst themselves” is duplicitous fuckery. I hope he doesnt do that. We will see.
Lisa: Much appreciated and your answer is quite thoughtfull. Let’s face it, as a conservative the travails of both Dem camps has been a hoot these last weeks. I must say that Hillary’s ghostly Bosnian snipers are way more entertaining than discussing BLT and Obama’s connection.
Duck, Hil, Duck! :-)
Hee hee, for sure, BJTexas. The “I was sleepy” thing is problematic because if you are prone to making up shit when you are sleepy then you might have a teensy bit of a “3 am problem” as well.
Putin: “I did not tell her that the bombs were on the way! I said that Bill and I were going to go out and see if we could get us some bootay.”
Ha, Lisa! I’m just wondering if she was “sleepy” the other 2 times she told the same story. Also, it might be sleeping sickness as Chelsea was telling the same story in Indiana.
Would she hear the snipers throught the 3:00AM phone?
And have you seen this?
I almost chocked to death laughing!
BJ – To be fair, it is prolly pretty tough to get a good night’s sleep when you are laying there trying to figure out who the next Monica is going to be.
BJTexas: That is HYSTERICAL. I can’t stop laughing!!!! That sucker just went viral in my building. There are giggles coming from several offices right now. Thanks. I needed that. It got me out of my afternoon post-lunch/working-working-on-a-boring-project coma.
It is sort of exciting/sucky to be a Democrat right now. You have to laugh to keep from crying (or stabbing yourself repeatedly in the eye with a rusty letter opener). Luckily there is plenty of material provided for laughs.
JD: u r evul, heh!
Lisa: Put yourself in my place. Just about a month ago it looked like inevitability and the planets were aligned with Alpha Centauri rising in the seventh house for Dems to just kick ass, take names, and win it all. I’ve never seen a political party so empowered slam the door on it’s foot in such a spectacular and repetitive fashion.
Are you guys ready to frog march Dean yet?
Lisa: In the spirit of bilateralism!
BJ – if they frogmarch Dean then they just frogmarched the MoveOn.org left from the party. They put Dean there IIRC over an old party guy that may not have made these mistakes.
The problem is that the sheer brass it takes to run for president is opposite to the common sense of self-preservation – don’t make stupid stuff up when are under the operating room lights and the ‘surgeons’ aren’t all friendly.
rail against helping the poor and oppressed because they are “lazy and no goodâ€Â.
or childish.
;)
BJTexas: Re #178: We have a mind boggling talent for that. See Carter 1976-1980. After the Watergate thing, we should have ushered in a Pax Democratica. But alas, not so much.
Re: #179: LMAO!! That was really cute.
I do believe in the Democratic Party platform though. But I am like a Red Sox fan prior to 2004. I keep holding out hope that we can actually get someone into the White House who does not break my heart by revealing themselves to be breathtakingly inept in the first hundred days of office, portending their coming impeachment or double digit second term loss. Sigh.
Lisa, you can be thankful that there’s no John Kerry in this race. I’m still amazed that the Dems couldn’t field someone who could beat Bush in ’04, given his negatives at the time and especially with the crap like Plamegate they flooded the zone with.
Pablo: Yeah that was ours to loose. And alas, we did.
(takes a several Xanax)
:-(
[…] Retired Gen. Tony McPeak would be asked about his comment that Jooos in New York City and Miami were preventing peace in the Mideast (must be that shuffleboard diplomacy). Retired Maj. Gen. Scott Gration is known for his platform of global nuclear disarmament, which undoubtedly influenced the Obama wackiness shown in the video our host Jeff G posted recently. Retired Gen. James Jones, the former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, is probably disqualified by serving on the boards of Chevron and medical equipment company Invacare, not to mention his decades-long friendship with John McCain. […]