After all, all the cool kids are talking about it. It seems to be getting pretty good reviews, though not from Allah, Bill Bennett and others, though they seem as much to be miffed about Hugh Hewitt’s cheerleading for Mitt. Allah sees it as a pander. I haven’t read all of the reax, but I wonder if it wasn’t as much as a counter to the rise of Huckabee, who seems to be in danger of overplaying the Jesus card as the polls go to his head.
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Recent Comments
- In The Mailbox: 02.28.23 (Afternoon Edition) : The Other McCain on Hey, longtime pw readers…
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I don’t care about Romney’s speech I realized over at the Corner today, quickly. Also Allah and Bill Bennett. Don’t care. Hugh Hewitt. Always intriguing. Not. I like Jesus. Huckabee is a farce. Evangelicals in Iowa are a farce, too. I think maybe I should get some ice cream. I think I goddamn well deserve some ice cream.
Bill Bennett just made the point on CNN that Romney didn’t quite live up to his promise to “offer perspectives on how my own faith would inform my Presidency, if I were elected.” Bennett said that most of the speech could have been delivered by any Republican candidate and some Democrats, which means that it did not specifically address the Mormon issue in much detail.*
I’m not sure what Bennett was expecting Mitt to say. Does he think that there’s something about Mormonism in particular that would “inform” a Presidency?
What people might not get is that Romney did say how Mormonism would affect his presidency. The stuff he said about the primacy of religious liberty is all over the Book of Mormon*, as is the idea that we shouldn’t banish references to God from the public square.*
As for getting all hot and bothered by Hugh Hewitt’s hyperbole, they obviously haven’t heard Hugh talk sports. He’s a total trash-talker, always always always making absurd assertions about his favored team. He doesn’t mean to be taken any more seriously than you’re supposed to when it come to trash-talk about sports.
This is the same type of thing, but since it’s written, you can’t hear his tone of voice. He doesn’t actually mean that those who disagree with him shouldn’t be taken seriously, he’s just doing what he doesâ€â€talk trash about his opponents in a contest.
Does anyone other than me find it disturbing that it came to the point where Romney felt he had to do this? I could care less whether he is a Mormon, Hindu, Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Episcopalean, Presbyterian, etc … Who gives a flying fuck. Is he a good guy? Yup. I guess he is a Republican, in name. He has had a Kerry-esque positions on a variety of issues, which is a larger concern to me. He says the right things to make me want to believe him, but in the end, is not my favorite choice, not even close. Do you think that there will ever be a point where there is an uproar about a Dem candidate’s religiion like there is over Republicans? Not since Kennedy has the Dem party really had to deal with it. How about Barack Obama have to answer for his spiritual adivsor’s positions on black separatism? How about Hillary have to answer for why her and Bill suddenly showed up in Church and on TV around the time some crisis was headed their way. How about they ask John Edwards what religion allows him to channel the dead.
I forget when we were electing a Pontifex Maximus.
JD:
The dispute isn’t whether Mitt is a Decent Guy or even what his policies are. Many Evangelicals have a Big Problem with putting a Mormon in the White House because it would legitimize us (furthering our missionary efforts), and many Evangelicals consider that to be as unacceptable as putting a pro-Choicer in office.
No, they consider it to be worse. Until you’ve been on the receiving end of the irrational rage that is often pointed our way, you cannot imagine the deep loathing some people have for us. By the way, it’s only Protestants who have this problem with us: Catholics like us just fine.
For example, my parents were sent to Johannesburg to set up social services to help the local LDS Church leaders deal with AIDS orphans, among other things. So they scoped out orphanages that were run by various parties, including Protestants and Catholics. The Protestants treated my parents cooly, if they dealt with them at all, but the Catholics were helpful, friendly, and cooperative. (The LDS Church frequently uses Catholic Charities to transport Humanitarian Aid to disaster areas.)
So it’s really discouraging to see people flocking to Huck because he’s a Baptist preacher but a liberal at heart (Jimmeh Carter II, anyone?) because they’re so desperate to Keep The Mormons Off The Furniture.
dicentra – I guess I really do not understand that. I guess it is alright to have this debate in the primaries, where he does have to win at least some of them over in order to get the nomination. Religion is not my thing when it comes to politics. I start seeing all of the politicians going to Church, and the Dem candidates preaching from the pulpit at some black church that they would not get caught dead in were it not for the TV cameras and photographers following them around. I really have no problem with Mormons, which is in no small part to having family in Park City, Utah, and having had much contact with them. I have just never understood why such a personal thing like religion could either qualify, or disqualify someone to a greater degree than another. Just because Kerry claimed to be Catholic made him no less of an idiot, and his Catholicism would not have made him any less horrible of a President. Ditto algore and his religion of AGW. Never mind, that is a bad example. Simple point is that if a person’s religious beliefs are that important to another person, than that other person ought to be looking at their own judgmental selves. But, then again, I am no evangelical.
From #3: “Mormon…Kerry-esque”.
Yeah. A dishonest Christian isn’t one, for what that’s worth, and a dishonest Christian is to be doubly doubted. From Hilary! we expect pathological dishonest. Romney, for what part religion plays in simple integrity, not.
As far as Mormonism, western states are familiar with the encroachment Mormons have made against, at the least, fair law and legislatures. There’s some motive at work in legal circles and by Mormon lawyers in and around law-making that doesn’t exactly kindle warm trust. Why and how this is is up for exploration, but it’s activism and it certainly smacks of self-interest, that coming from that common religious denominator.
A vote for Romney is a vote against Hilary!, which is a very good thing. But it’s not necessarily a vote for the right thing.
You have to choose one. There might be other people running too. If you’re curious you can check cnn.com. They’re very helpful for this sort of decision. Huckabee is a farce though so that’s really just three choices, but I bet he’ll get a kick out of googling “President Huckabee” some day and actually getting a hit.
I have just never understood why such a personal thing like religion could either qualify, or disqualify someone to a greater degree than another.
Because some people aren’t looking at qualifications, they’re going with their gut or their fears or whatever moves them in general. It’s precisely because religion is so personal that some people get their BVDs in a wad over it.
But, then again, I am no evangelical.
Which means we pose no “threat” to you, in the sense that we’re not going to drag your family members off to hell if they happen to convert. Then there are others like those Newsweek reporters who discovered that the LDS Church controls an awful lot of assets (the vast majority chapels and temples and universities, which are money sinks) and that therefore we are trying to Take Over The World.
Which is stupid, because Everybody Knows that the Joooooos are taking over the world, and no way can we go up against the Sons of Judah and win. We just don’t play that dirty. :D
western states are familiar with the encroachment Mormons have made against, at the least, fair law and legislatures. There’s some motive at work in legal circles and by Mormon lawyers in and around law-making that doesn’t exactly kindle warm trust.
You’ll have to point me to some more information on that, because it sounds like more Urban Legend than truth to me. But I’m willing to look into it.
Lost in all the GOP sectarian sniping is what both Hewitt and Limbaugh identified as the key component. America was built upon the best elements of the Judeo-Christian heritage. I say this as a classical atheist.
Big tent, people.
I don’t want Huckabee in my tent. You just know he has stretch marks and like gobs and gobs of loose skin everywhere. That grosses me out.
In case that was too oblique, what Romney was saying is that it is the civil principles that make the US exceptional. That these principles have evolved from numerous sources negates claims of ‘divine’ preference, rather exemplifies just why the USofA is so great.
Chose Romney, or Guiliani, or McCain, or Thompson, or even Paul, they all respect, and understand (why Huckabee is not mentioned) that heritage.
Out of nowhere…
Vote for Huckabee – MINISTER FOR THE WORLD!
Yeah, I dislike the guy…
LOL. he believes in something thats not true and has to clear it up.
The only part of someone’s religion that would be a deal-breaker for me is if that religion is not OK with secular government. Some religions (e.g., Jehovah’s Witnesses) believe that God is the only rightful sovereign, so secular governments are usurpers and pretenders. That’s why the JW’s don’t pledge allegiance to any earthly government, sign loyalty oaths, or join the military. They also, if you’ll notice, don’t run for public office, so there’s no conflict there.
Good speech. Sounded almost statesman-like but I can’t be sure; it’s been about seven years since I last heard a politician laying it out like he really believed it and doing it effectively enough that I did, too.
It was a good speech, though. Make no mistake. I believe it will eventually become one of those little moments that get better with age.
Andy
I know it is pointless, but to whom and what were you referring to with this ?
JD, don’t interrupt andy when he’s talking to/about himself.
McGehee – You would think that I would know better by now.
dicentra – Count me in the column of people that have real problems with Romney, based solely on his politics. As long as he does not worship at the altar of liberalism, I would not have a problem with me. His various flirtations with liberalism over time in no way comfort me. I would still vote for him over any Dem, but that standard is not very telling. I would also vote for any of the conservative commenters here over any of the Dems, and for Jeff every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
I’ve only caught bits and pieces of this, but I have two predictions:
1) We won’t be saying “President Romney” any time in the next few years;
2) Our great-grandchildren will be studying that speech in history classes.
Regards,
Ric
Ric makes it a coin toss…
Purple fingers, people.
Romney’s speechwriter is spectacular. I just got done reading the text of the speech. Wow, good stuff. If Romney penned all of that himself, I might actually reconsider my view of him.
“I know it is pointless, but to whom and what were you referring to with this ?”
The guy that believes jesus christ came to america.
You shouldn’t scoff at other people’s religious beliefs, andy. Some people think carbon dioxide is of the DEVIL, but we must be kind.
He did.
On a pogo stick (as I remind myself whenever I make the mistake of reading one of your comments.
McGehee – Next time I am getting ready to ask dickweed a question, I am just going to picture a midget clown on a pogo stick.
Seriously, how much for the mustache ride?
Boing … Boing … Boing
Count me in the column of people that have real problems with Romney, based solely on his politics.
Hey, if you don’t like him for his political stuff, that’s totally valid. I’m in the camp of those who would like to take a slice of each candidate and make a Frankenstein’s monster thus:
Giuliani  street-fighting, don’t take no crap from nobody (especially the press) attitude
Romney  economic acumen and organizational skills
Thompson  common-sense policy and legal opinions
McCain  foreign policy and military
Tancredo  border policy
Paul  shrink the $&#&* government!
Huckabee  communication skills
Hunter  I forgot what piece, but he seems a solid character. Maybe the stitches to hold them all together
dicentra – Do you happen to know who his speechwriter is? Like I said, if he penned that speech himself, I might step back and reconsider him. Given the many faults of most, if not all of the candidates, I like to have a reason to affirmatively support someone, and anyone that can write like that is worthy of consideration.
JD –
This morning Glenn Beck reported that not only did Romney write this, but also that there is no “scriptwriter” position on Romney’s campaign TO. We have a local morning talk guy (Bob Lonsberry) who seconded Romney as the sole author of the speech.
I live in the heart of the Blue – BYU Cougar Blue – and have since ’92. Not LDS. Wouldn’t live anywhere else if given my druthers about it.
Romney made the 2002 Olympics. The organizers who lobbied for the selection of SLC were great at promotion but woefully inadequate when it came time to put things in motion. Before anyone comes out with how much the Feds subsidized the games because of 9/11 I will agree with them one hundred percent BUT even with the Feds generosity, the games would not have happened in SLC had Romney not agreed to take the job when it was offered.
His control and competence are a little off-putting to some. When he steps up and says “I understand the challenges facing the country and have solutions I’d like to apply” he speaks from the standpoint of a fifty year veteran of successful public and private ventures. Contrast his bearing and demeanor with that of Hillary! stumbling through a canned interview designed to make her come across as the second coming of Pitt the Elder, Teddy Roosevelt, and Rosa Parks.
Miz Hillary, “advocating” didn’t never pay a dividend…
I don’t LIKE any of the Republican choices. But I could vote for any of them but McCain, Paul, or Huckabee and live with myself. The Dems?
Pull the other one, it’s got bells on.
“By the way, it’s only Protestants who have this problem with us: Catholics like us just fine.”
I’ll cop to that. We Cat’lics can’t stand most of the more extreme puritanical sects (Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc.) but for some reason we find Mormons cute. I suspect it’s either your Magic Kingdom-inspired temples or the fact that when we tell your missionaries “No Thanks” when they show up at the door, they go away.
But to us, you’re just another denomination of Proddies, albeit a colorful one.
I don’t really care about his religion.
I live in Massachusetts.
I have a postcard sent to me by the state government explaining the tax penalties I will incur if I do not have health insurance. Thanks, Mitt, for “fixing” that problem. I do not want this guy running our country.
No, McGehee, it wasn’t a pogo stick, it was in a Chinese shipping container.
Or was it on a section of balloon fence?
The religion issue isn’t one that interests me, and at this time I am still up in the air regarding most of the Republican candidates – Pon Raul is out because isolationism was proven to be a failed policy by 1800.
You must have at least a two-digit IQ to take that ride.
Why does andy always ask that? Is that his pithy way of telling you to suck his pecker?
Romney was the Governor of Mass., which is, in itself, a knock out blow in my book.
The Republican choices are all flawed, but so far, Guiliani is my man. Regardless of some of his social positions, he has one big set of brass balls, and at this moment in history, brass balls are what we need. Not the strap-ons that Hillary! wears.
“Oh! He’s so mean! He makes people act in accordance with the law!” Well, fuckin’ great!, as far as I am concerned.
In 1992, I was in Times Square at about mid-day, and was just about afraid for my life. The Dinkins freak show was in full bloom. I swore that I would never go back to NYC (I live an hour away and spent a good chunk of my youth in NYC).
In 1997, I told a friend I would drop off some important papers for him at King Features Syndicate.
I was completely blown away! All the theives, street hustlers, and other low lifes were GONE! Not even ONE to be found.
Say what you want about Rudy, but he performed a miracle in NYC.
BALLS! That’s what we need right now…
I can wait for the rest of what I consider to be second tier “social” problems. And Rudy, as a Republican, is not going to mess with the big right wing issues. He is not that stupid by any means.
JD-
Most Mormons are used to writing their own speeches because they start us delivering sermons at the age of 3. You could have repeated that speech verbatim in a Mormon worship service, and in fact I’ve heard sermons like that countless times over the pulpit. I recently heard an old recording of Ezra Taft Benson (hard-right politician who was SecAg for I don’t remember who) deliver a sermon on freedom and the Constitution. Rousing, red-blooded-American stuff.
Mormons believe that the Constitution was divinely inspired and that freedom of conscience is extremely important both politically and spiritually. The church rarely takes a stand on an issue. Currently, the only official political stand we have is opposition to same-sex marriage. All other issues of law and policy are open to interpretation. Hence a moron like Harry Reid.
I will admit, however, that I don’t much like his Massachusetts health-care solution. I think we need to get away from having insurance pay for everything and having people pay for the low-cost stuff out of pocket.
I have problems with Mormonism, and they all have to do with the most offensive parts of Christian doctrine. That aside, Mormonism is better than Hucksterism, and Progressivism as well. I’m not digging the health insurance bullhonkery, though. So, I have better reasons not to vote for the man than his Mormonism. Suffice it to say I’d vote for him over any Dem – but I’d vote for Giuliani, Thompson, and others before him in the primary.
From where I’m at the ‘missionary’ efforts don’t bother. When you’re part of a 2000-year-old thing you don’t much worry about local disruptions. It’s weird to me that so many Evangelicals get all over-the-top flustered about it. My view is more along the lines of staying alive and spreading the Gospel. If my folk have one major problem it’s their lack of evangelism. But, there’s nothing particularly uniform about the whole thing anyway.
Own horns tooted … too many to count…
Matthew Yglesias had the best assessment of Romney’s predicament and the best advice for him:
“Probably he should stay in keeping with his main campaign themes and just tell Republican primary voters that he’s willing to say whatever they want him to say about Mormonism and explain that he’s only had trouble with this issue because it’s not clear what people want from him.”
Or he could appeal to religious tolerance, something we’ve gotten used to having liberals preach at us for decades.
I don’t see much tolerance here,
“Freedom requires religion, just as religion requires freedom,” Mr. Romney said.
Only ignorance. It is unfortunate that he felt he had to do this speech but I would vote for any other Republican before this asshole now. Oh yeah, and he can suck my areligious cock of lies if he thinks he must.
Nothing quite like the “tolerance” of a leftist.
“Freedom requires religion, just as religion requires freedom,†Mr. Romney said that John Adams said.
He was quoting. So now you’re probably cupping the bishop to thoughts of the Founding Fathers giving you head. …..My country ’tis of thee………
The DenverPost quotes Romney thus:
I suspect he’s hoping we’ll forget what that same article noted a little before:
I think Romney’s right, we should have no respect for believers of convenience who would jettison their beliefs to gain political office, and either he bailed on abortion to run for Gov of Mass., or he’s BSing us now. Take your pick.
My take: Empty. Suit. He talks purty, but it’s 100% pure pander.
Well, speaking only for myself, and bearing in mind that the only thing POTUS has to say about abortion is when nominating Supreme Court justices, I’m not going to lose sleep over which of these choices is the correct one.
I’m pro-life, but it’s not anywhere near the top five of issues for me, and hasn’t been in a long, long time.
Personally, I’m pretty much agnostic on the issue of abortion. Never had one. But that’s not my point.
Romney has changed his position on quite a few issues. He had to. He had no hope of winning the Republican nomination for president running on the same platform he used running in Mass. That makes me uncomfortable, but I can understand it. What I can’t stand is the gall of the man telling us we should have no respect for people who do just what he’s done.
That’s why I’m saying he speech is pure pander. We don’t know what he actually believes, all we know is that he’s willing to tell people what he thinks they want to hear.
Hmm.. In fact, a quick google of Romney flip-flop finds articles claiming he’s “outgrown” his policy positions on abortion, immigration, tax cuts, gay rights, campaign finance reform, climate change, gambling, and gun control. And that’s just the first page of the results. If even half of it’s true the man certainly doesn’t have much courage in his convictions.
“Well, speaking only for myself, and bearing in mind that the only thing POTUS has to say about abortion is when nominating Supreme Court justices,”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_Policy
Yeah, McGehee, what about all those foreign concubines of yours? You will be singing a different tune when American taxpayers quit footing the bill for that debauchery, I’ll bet!
What — you want to rent one? Here’s my price list.