For a short time before hitting the hay last night (I grew up in a barn), I was involved in a Twitter discussion with some other folks (most of whose names I am omitting to protect their identities) about the JournoList revelations of Mickey Kaus. Most folks seemed to think that they were side-splittingly funny, and our own Sarah W. actually hit upon the Heathers formulation before Jonah did, I think–whether from incidental convergence or meme propagation, I can’t be sure. Certainly the bits that Kaus chose to share didn’t show much in the way of actual collusion with MSM types to frame issues and regulate memes regarding them, and the whole enterprise comes across as farcical.
Some of the folks involved in the discussion felt a little bit sorry for Olby having been left out of the Honeycomb Hideout, which I feel is misplaced sympathy, given the guy’s absolute disregard for the facts and the feelings of others, and as I mentioned elsewhere, I wouldn’t be surprised if JournoList became the Worst Person in the World, following up on Twitter’s coup last week. Dicentra’s already written about the absurdist savaging of Marty Peretz, below. And some people were trying to make the point that it was very wrong for someone to have leaked the messages to Kaus in the first place, and that it’s appalling to have materials meant for private consumption exposed in this way to the general public, and asked wouldn’t we really hate it if someone took the Twitter conversation (this may have been aimed at me in a rather pointed way) and posted it to a blog where everyone could see our meanness?
To this I can only plead: no. There’s honestly nothing that I would say on Twitter that would be different (except probably shorter) than it would be here in a post or in comments. I mean to tell the truth, as I see it, and if people are outraged by that, then they’re outraged by that.
Was it wrong of someone to have leaked the information to Kaus? Probably. I don’t have any insight into the motives. Was it wrong of Kaus to have published it? Maybe. The case is certainly arguable. But the bottom line is that I laughed my effing ass off. So, thank you, Mickey Kaus. You’re a Great American. Is that so wrong?
I know, I know. [Bangs gavel, glowers sternly from the bench] The aggrieved had a reasonable expectation of privacy. The jury shall disregard how overwhelmingly hilarious all of this is and cease to snicker or be ordered out of court.
Judge: . . .
Jury: . . .
Judge: . . .
Judge and Jury: BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
UPDATE: Patterico doesn’t disagree with me, but it’s been 54 minutes and he hasn’t responded to my post. Just sayin’.
Comment by Alec Leamas on 3/27 @ 1:19 pm #
Two things:
1) JournoList is the first time they’ve been caught, and luckily enough, there is a partial record of what was written. What remains is the fact that they’d contemplate feeding stories and directing news from a central source for political ends, and that some supposed journalists would participate. That it was secret is probative of the fact that there is something not quite right with the whole thing.
2) There is no real expectation of privacy for a listserv of 100+ people. Proof of Klein’s stupid is that he expected 100+ human beings to keep a secret, especially since it was inevitable that the Listserv would descend into a series of catfights. Everyone with brains knows that Conspiracies have to be small and tight, and comprised of disciplined individuals who owe more to the group than to anything outside of it. You let one Waingro-type in, and the whole fucking thing goes to shit.
Comment by Squid on 3/27 @ 2:22 pm #
I bet it was one of those NYT assholes. They can’t keep a secret to save their lives.
Comment by B Moe on 3/27 @ 2:33 pm #
….it’s appalling to have materials meant for private consumption exposed in this way to the general public….
You guys just better hope that none of those folks were ever covert agents, is all I’m saying.
Comment by geoffb on 3/27 @ 2:50 pm #
First off. Did they expect privacy? Yes. Was that expectation based in reality? No. With a claimed membership of over 300 people who write for publication for a living, and will certainly have squabbles a leak was certain to happen sometime. What and why are the interesting questions.
Figure that each person on the list writes say 1000 words there per day. That’s a low-ball estimate, they write for a living. That’s over 100,000,000 words per year written on that listserve. Why these particular 2500 or so were selected to leak to represent the 99.9975% that were not leaked is what interests me.
Whenever someone or some group on the Left is discovered doing an activity that appears to be nefarious, there are two explanations for the behavior that could be used.
One is that they, or their staff, were just stupid. Silly gooses, haha, sorry, we just weren’t thinking. That’s the stupid defense.
The other explanation is that they were up to something bad, evil. This explanation is one that would hurt and is never willing used.
This leak is, among whatever personal reasons the leaker may have had to get even with someone(s), put out to bolster the stupid defense. See, we are just a bunch of little “juice-box” kids, childish, catty, bratty, and stupid. We couldn’t possibly be doing anything evil. Nothing to see here, move along, move along.
This first leak will set the stereotype in place. If in the future others of a more sinister nature come out they will be looked at with this “silly kids” narrative in place. This was a defense preemptive first strike. A classic maneuver perfected by the Clinton War Room people in the 90’s. Carville-Begala have their sweaty hands in this somewhere.
You can bet on two things. There is another, more exclusive, “list” somewhere. It is set up so that nothing written there can be pulled off the list and put up anywhere else.
Comment by topsecretk9 on 3/27 @ 4:27 pm #
It is set up so that nothing written there can be pulled off the list and put up anywhere else.
how?
Comment by Dan Collins on 3/27 @ 4:31 pm #
@topsecretk9: If you try to take a screen shot, your computer blows up.
Comment by geoffb on 3/28 @ 12:09 am #
I plead guilty of overstatement. I was thinking of a system that didn’t archive or save anything. Once it left your screen or you log off it’s gone. Even that could have a digital photo taken.
Sorry.
Comment by Alec Leamas on 3/28 @ 12:33 am #
“Did they expect privacy?”
Note to self: Dead men tell no tales.
Comment by sdferr on 3/28 @ 12:52 am #
James Kirchick, whose name was abused in the Journolist thread, has his little measure of revenge on mygles today.
Comment by Alec Leamas on 3/28 @ 3:31 am #
Gramma Leamas had has had all of Julio Yglesias’ album records. How far we have fallen.
Comment by Alec Leamas on 3/28 @ 3:36 am #
I mean – Bailamos! This shit blows -