Here’s Mommy and Daddy Frost last Wednesday, Oct. 10th
While the family continues to support the vetoed bill that would expand the program to 4 million more children, they are hoping to remove themselves from the middle of the storm. After giving a few interviews, Halsey and Bonnie Frost now say they don’t want to say anything more, though network camera crews have planted themselves in front of their house.
Daddy Frost, the SUV’s before health insurance/woodworking before full-time job guy, engaged in a little projection with sobsister Karen Tumulty
“My son Graeme has helped put on a human face, that of a young boy, representing the needs of children and families across this nation. We are a hard working family that has stepped forward to support SCHIP. Mudslinging from the fringe has now been directed at the messenger.”
No one has been attacking Graeme. The ire has been directed against Halsey and Lady Frost … who dither and expect their neighbors to pick up the slack. Cuz, like, they are entitled to a share of their neighbor’s paycheck regardless.
Mr. Frost had no idea that when Harry Reid’s staffers put words in Graeme’s mouth that someone might want to do a little reporting on those behind the curtain.
We should allow this to die and for the Frosts retreat to obscurity, right? I mean, that’s what Halsey “I who sign my name to things” wants, right?
On Monday evening, Master Frost will be on Countdown.
Seems Halsey isn’t above hiding behind his son again and letting mush-brain Keith Olbermann pimp the hapless child on TV because you know, as the Left Truthiness states, Graeme has been “swiftboated”.
As those who actually live in the real, adult world know, “swiftboat” is really about the inconvenient airing of uncomfortable facts.
This last is pretty snort-worthy:
Watch this 12 year old boy call out the Neo-cons tomorrow night on Countdown.
Where are the adults in the Left? Ones that find using a child as human shield less than honorable?
Whoops! “Honor” is an old-fashioned virtue, like responsibility.
Something, it seems, not too well known on the Left side of the aisle.
(h/t MayBee)
Comment by Luther McLeod on 10/14 @ 6:15 pm #
Values… stinking values… the left don’t need no stinking values… those are for rubes, or folks who still hold to the foundational roots of individual freedom. But, same thing, right?
Comment by Merovign on 10/14 @ 6:20 pm #
It’s an almost Joe-Wilson-like display of heavily publicizing something you claim to want private for purposes of exploiting the victimhood you created for yourself.
Or in this case, you child.
Comment by Bill B on 10/14 @ 6:39 pm #
I found this via Realclearpolitics at The Baltimore Sun, of all places.
Read the whole thing. It explains the issue succinctly and devastates the lefty talking point that to be opposed to the S-CHIP expansion is to not care about the welfare of poor children. It’s clear that this entire campaign is based on that formulation. All the ads from Families USA, etc. claim Bush’s veto of the bill means he doesn’t care about sick kids and is must be overridden to save them. I also believe that at the outset the idea was to portray criticism of the campaign, specifically as it pertains to the Frost family story, as smearing the child. How else to explain so many blog posts and news stories using that exact word or the variants swiftboating and sliming?
As for Ezra Klein in that previous thread, it might be true that he’s very knowledgeable about healthcare issues and this issue in particular, but if so that makes him nothing but a dishonest hack because he knows what it’s really all about but prefers to spread misinformation about it.
Comment by dorkafork on 10/14 @ 7:20 pm #
The TalkLeft post you linked to says “To quote one legendary Neo-con:” and follows it with a Hitler quote. Arguing with a 12 year old would be a step up.
Comment by Scrapiron on 10/14 @ 7:24 pm #
It was nice of the democrat leadership to confirm what we already know. Democrats only ’start’ getting out of the ‘child’ stage at age 25, and everyone that earns less than $82,000 per year is poor. Guess I’ll report to the welfare office tomorrow, there’s no way they can refuse to give me a total package. Free housing, clothing, food, medical care, and a nice car to drive, and I’ll demand that my children be enrolled in private schools immediately.
Comment by Scrapiron on 10/14 @ 7:25 pm #
Oh, the cost of the private schools must be paid by the taxpayers, a lot who make less than I do.
Comment by Ted Nugent's Soul Patch on 10/14 @ 7:42 pm #
Over at Cole’s place, when someone dared to point out that perhaps a family that couldn’t afford health insurance should be figuring out more reasonable means of transportation, the response was that Malkin “pulled out pics of showroom models”; in other words, never mind that a family making $45 large should make some reasonable choices in transportation, those are SHOWROOM MODELS, PEOPLE!!
The F-250 I can understand–it’s probably for work purposes, and may even have been written off as a business expense since halsey is a private contractor for kitchen cabinet construction. The van as well–a family of six should have a vehicle big enough to carry the family in, not a ford taurus. But what is the point in getting yet another vehicle? Based on monthly payments and insurance, could that money have been invested in health insurance instead?
Hell, I can even understand them wanting to send their kids to private schools–what person in their right mind would want to subject their kids to the tender mercies of the Baltimore public school system? But looking at the big picture, would it have been possible for them to find a home in an area where they could feel safe about sending their kids to public schools? halsey is a private contractor and the mother works part-time, are these jobs that require their residence in that area and nowhere else? Or could they have exercised some flexibility and moved to an area that would be less of a financial burden.
Perhaps it’s all irrelevant anyway–according to the letter from the neighbor that Malkin posted, the Halseys are essentially very decent people who simply cannot seem to get out of their own way financially, particularly Halsey, a terrific carpenter with no business sense whatsoever. Whether this is an accurate description or not, I can’t say for sure. But if it is true, it certainly sheds a great deal of light on why they were having so many issues on the health insurance front.
Comment by Jeffersonian on 10/14 @ 7:49 pm #
I took a look at the prices of the Halseys’ vehicles over at Edmunds. Assuming they bought used, here’s a typical price profile in the Baltimore area:
2004 Volvo XC90: $25,400
2004 Chevy Suburban: $25,000
2006 Ford F250 4×4: $28,900
Posted without comment.
Comment by JD on 10/14 @ 7:53 pm #
Clearly the best way to remove yourself from the “debate” over this issue is to pimp out your child yet again, and this time, of all places, to one of, if not the worst people on television, Olberdouche. Good Allah, the PR firm advising the Dems and the Frosts should refund their money.
I would be that in no time at all, we could accurately predict the questions and answers from this little pimp fest.
Comment by Cave Bear on 10/14 @ 7:54 pm #
This is an old, old tactic of the barking moonbat left. It doesn’t matter if it’s between a Repub President and a Commiecrat Congress or vice versa, the story is always the same.
Pick most any “popular” (as in popular with the liberal/left) government handout program. Budget time rolls around and the Dims will say “we want an increase in funding for thus-and-such “popular” program of amount x”.
The Repub(s) will reply, “OK, we will go with a budget increase to your “popular” program of amount y, as your amount x is excessive and unnecessary at this time”.
Never mind the fact the government is already spending who knows how many billions of dollars on this “popular” program, and that both sides are talking about an increase of billions more for the program in question. What will you hear?
“THE E-VIL REPUBS ARE CUTTING FUNDS FROM A “POPULAR” PROGRAM THAT SAVES THE LIVES OF WOMEN/CHILDREN/MINORITIES/NAME-YOUR-FAVORITE-DIM-SPECIAL-INTEREST-GROUP!!!” Blah, blah, blah.
I always thought the cartoon of Bush pushing some sweet little granny lady in a wheelchair off a cliff was the penultimate of this sort of thing, that the moonbats could not stoop any lower.
Sadly, I was wrong, as the pimping out of that 12 year old kid aptly demonstrates.
Comment by Darleen on 10/14 @ 7:58 pm #
that Malkin “pulled out pics of showroom modelsâ€Â;
and she clearly LABELED her pics as such
good lord, those sewer rats would have squealled “stalker! harasser!” if she had taken pics of the Frost’s actual cars.
These people are unfuckingbelieveable.
Comment by Bill B on 10/14 @ 8:03 pm #
Oh, and I found this over at Balloon Juice. I wasn’t aware Mike Luckovich is such dishonest moonbat.
Comment by JD on 10/14 @ 8:03 pm #
Cave Bear – Precisely. The Republicans are willing to expand this program by, for example, $10 billion. The Dems, on the other hand, wnat to expaand the program by $50 billion. Then, the Dems, and the media accuse the Republicans of slashing the program by $40 billion, which will cause old people to freeze to death. live in the gutters, and cause children will starve and become homeless, all due to a tiny $10 billion INCREASE.
Comment by JD on 10/14 @ 8:04 pm #
Darleen – They squealed stalker/harassment just because she drove by their home and commercial property.
Comment by The Lost Dog (El Pero Perdido) on 10/14 @ 8:05 pm #
Comment by Scrapiron on 10/14 @ 7:24 pm #
“It was nice of the democrat leadership to confirm what we already know. Democrats only ’start’ getting out of the ‘child’ stage at age 25, and everyone that earns less than $82,000 per year is poor. Guess I’ll report to the welfare office tomorrow, there’s no way they can refuse to give me a total package. Free housing, clothing, food, medical care, and a nice car to drive, and I’ll demand that my children be enrolled in private schools immediately.”
Well, everyone who earns less than $82,OOO is poor until tax time comes, and then you become a greedy son of a bitch for not paying enough in taxes to support the Democratic “base”.
Ignorance is the stock in trade of the Dems, and they are very close to having an unbeatable coalition of morons who think that our money actually should belong to them.
I make nowhere near $82,000 a year, but I still have to pay for the assholes who spend their days whining on the Daily Kos.
These morons are too lazy to actually make a living, but they expect you and me to pay for their HDTVs.
Go figure.
Comment by thor on 10/14 @ 8:06 pm #
Mommy hit a patch of black-ice-shmack-ice. Maybe a dark-hearted Rightwing reactionary loaded Slayer into Mommy’s SUV’s CD player because “hippies can’t stand death metal” (Cartman, 2005, episode 902).
Comment by Darleen on 10/14 @ 8:08 pm #
predicted snippet of mush-brain’s “interview”
KO: Nice to see you, Graeme. I bet you’re feeling a little angry right now
GF: uh, no … actua…
KO: Ha! Hold on there kiddo. I have it on good authority from your parents that you’re really really p’o-ed at those meanie WORST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD neocons
GF: whatsa ‘neo …
KO: Graeme, Graeme. you don’t have to be shy, speak up boy! Tell us how those WORST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD swiftboated you, smeared such a tender young lad as yourself, SMEARED you
GF: uh, I feel, uh. swiftboat? uh
KO: [sotto voce] here here kid, read the card over there, read the fuckin card ..
GF: uhuhuh [starts crying]
KO: See? [looks directly at camera as shot cuts away from Graem} See, America? Graeme has be so traumatized, so SMEARED and SWIFTBOATED by the WORST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD NEOCONS that he can't even talk. Can't even begin to tell you how MUCH THIS SMEARING has hurt him. How those WORST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD attacked, jihadded if you will, this poor brain-damaged child!!
[several more moments of Keith spraying spit on the camera lense and Graeme is hustled to the greenroom off camera]
Comment by Darleen on 10/14 @ 8:15 pm #
BillB
“W vetoed my healthcare”
MY ‘healthcare’??? Graeme was already covered and veto/pass wasn’t/didn’t affect him AT ALL. what the FUCK?
ok…. I gotta go pour myself a drink…
Comment by JD on 10/14 @ 8:18 pm #
They do not even have a passing acquaintance with the truth, Darleen. As disgusting as this is, it really should not surprise any of us.
Comment by dicentra on 10/14 @ 10:15 pm #
I don’t know about youse guys, but I’m more afraid of government healthcare than of a thousand jihadis. They, at least, will put me out of my misery relatively quickly.
Comment by MayBee on 10/14 @ 10:16 pm #
It would be cool if Olbermann could get Che Che’s daughter to appear with Graeme on the show.
Comment by maggie katzen on 10/14 @ 10:27 pm #
I can see it now…. Keith bursts into tears and Graeme and Che Che the younger put their arms around him and tell him everything will be okay.
Comment by maggie katzen on 10/14 @ 10:44 pm #
eh, I’m sure someone else could do better… but there’s the bulk of the original.
Comment by Sean M. on 10/14 @ 10:52 pm #
I find myself reminded of this.
Comment by injustice prevails on 10/15 @ 1:12 am #
Keith Olbermann & Countdown defined:
A failed former sports caster,
Wanna be political pun-dickery,
Bias anti American jock poser turned news talking head,
on the lowest rated cable news network in cable news history, MSNBC.
If Olbermann ever had an original thought his balls would crawl up his intestates and launch out of his mouth.
Department of Homeland Security,
Yah still looking for an Al Qaeda sleeper cell hiding in plain view
in America? Hint MSNBC Countdown/Bringdown Olbermann
Post blog script:
George Bush loves kids,
its the “Armenians” that he hates
Ahmadinejad – Bush
The holocaust genocide denail myth twins
Comment by Slartibartfast on 10/15 @ 4:17 am #
Val’s smiling big, for someone whose career has been completely fucked over. I want some of whatever she’s taking.
Comment by alppuccino on 10/15 @ 4:28 am #
The Republicans need to get off their duffs and find a child whose parents are pulling down $82,500 and hang a sign around the little whippersnapper’s neck: “Why do Graeme and the Democrats hate me?”
Comment by Donald on 10/15 @ 5:45 am #
I met Mike Lukevich once. I engaged his scrawny little ass concerninghis comics. He told me I was to myopic and didn’t understand. I pointed out that I totally got him, and that me, my brother, my nephew, dad, and grandfather said your welcome shit head. guess what we all have in common. He told me I was crass. Crass I tell ya!
Comment by Tomas on 10/15 @ 6:09 am #
Why can’t these debates ever work like this?
LEFT/DEMOCRATS: “OK, we know that the founders established a system of government that was supposed to be small and limited. They didn’t plan on federal handouts. But history has since shown that certain situations rise to an unusual level of need, and require federal involvement. This program is one of them.”
RIGHT/REPUBLICANS: “We think it’s important to heed the founders’ wishes for small government. We can’t continue adding programs to the federal budget. Where will it stop? We worry that it won’t. This program is problematic because it runs counter to the type of government set out for the United States.”
This SCHIP argument is not about who does or doesn’t care about children. Christ. It’s about the proper role of government. That’s why the retorts from the Olbermanns of the world are so clueless at best, downright dishonest at worst.
If the left would at least acknowledge when its proposed programs do not fit in the intended government framework — that they go above and beyond, but are necessary because of such-and-such — the ensuing debates would be a lot less infuriating. But the left reliably skips that part every time. They proceed from the get-go as if everyone is operating in the same terrain, and pretend it’s thus merely a debate about the actual merits of various proposals.
It’s a rhetorical approach that has gummed up the gears of our political discourse for more than four decades now. It has caused us all to waste a depressing amount of breath, time and energy, sitting here constantly arguing past each other, all because the left is sloppy/dishonest with the debate’s most basic premise.
If only from the perspective of efficiency, it’s maddening.
Comment by alppuccino on 10/15 @ 6:40 am #
Halsey is a woodworker. A WOODWORKER!!!!
He makes his living by murdering trees. TO WORK THE WOOD@!!
When he kills, does he examine the body, and if the victim is not up to his standards of craftsmanship, does he throw the innocent’s carcass on the burn pile? MY GAWD!!
…….oops, gotta go. The dinger went off on the oven and if I don’t baste my stuffed American Eagle with the embryonic stem cell sauce at the precise time, it gets lumpy.
Comment by alppuccino on 10/15 @ 6:42 am #
sorry for the accidental email link. Please do not bury my wood in emails. thx.
Comment by Matt, Esq. on 10/15 @ 6:48 am #
*Where are the adults in the Left? *
There are no adults on the left. They are either oversized children OR they are immature idealists.
Pingback by Michelle Malkin » S-CHIP and the Democrats’ human shield campaign on 10/15 @ 6:59 am #
[...] Darleen Click notes the Frost parents’ apparent change of heart on parading their children in public and wonders: Where are the adults in the Left? [...]
Comment by John Bradley on 10/15 @ 7:03 am #
Worst limerick ever!
Comment by randomizer on 10/15 @ 8:04 am #
FWIW, I thought there was something familiar-sounding in Frederick Halsey Frost’s name. Admiral Halsey was commander of the Third Fleet during WWII. His full name was William *Frederick Halsey*. Now, maybe his parents were fans of Admiral Halsey, but it seems a little more likely that family ties dictated the choice of Halsey Frost’s name. The Wikipedia entry is light on Adm. Halsey’s financial circumstances — except the interesting fact that he attended the exclusive (and no doubt expensive) Pingry School in New Jersey.
The wedding announcement in the Times was the dead giveaway that the Frosts were either wealthy or connected, or both.
Comment by Ali-Bubba on 10/15 @ 8:12 am #
Mr. Frost had no idea that when Harry Reid’s staffers put words in Graeme’s mouth that someone might want to do a little reporting on those behind the curtain.
An important point: Democratic staffers were behind this whole stratagem of using the kid to front for their $35 billion scam. This argument is, in part, about the quality of people hired by the Senate Majority Leader. Democrats are staffing Capitol Hill with dishonest thugs, and this need to be exposed.
Comment by JD on 10/15 @ 8:41 am #
I thought that if I slept on it, that Keith Olberman and the parents Frost would seem a little less reprehensible today. Sadly, no.
Comment by MarkD on 10/15 @ 8:49 am #
What I want to know is how private schooling gets a pass. It’s almost enough to make me believe the Dems are hypocrites. Did the NEA approve this message?
Didn’t the Frosts sue the municipality for the failure of its government workers to properly salt and sand the road surfaces? That wouldn’t fit the narrative.
It’s almost enough to make me believe the government won’t solve all my problems.
Comment by Percy Dovetonsils on 10/15 @ 8:59 am #
And what kind of gas mileage does a Ford F250 or a Chevy Suburban get, anyway? Why do the Frosts hate Mother Gaia so much?
Comment by Techie on 10/15 @ 9:24 am #
So Malkin is going to obviously receive the “Worst Person in the World” award for “ruthlessly stalking and smearing a 12 year old cripple”, but does she get anything? Like a plaque or certificate or something? Cause that’s something I’d want to have up there on the ol’ CV.
Pingback by Right Voices » Blog Archive » Everything You Want To Know About SCHIP, But Your Congress Is Afraid To Tell You on 10/15 @ 9:51 am #
[...] one on the right is picking on the 12 year old. The parents have been raked over the coals for “Daddy Frost, the SUV’s before health insurance/woodworking before full-time job guy”. Here is a family that has means but not motivation to have health insurance. Intelligent people [...]
Comment by mojo on 10/15 @ 12:16 pm #
If you’ve ever had a 12 year old boy, you know how this is likely to turn out. Stand by for hilarity!
Comment by MayBee on 10/15 @ 1:05 pm #
It would be interesting if Olbermann pulls out a check for the Frosts, like the one he gave Clinton.
I’m sure he would love himself for that.
Comment by Christopher Taylor on 10/15 @ 1:26 pm #
I suspect ultimately that continuing to draw attention to this is not exactly going to help their cause.
Comment by Pablo on 10/15 @ 1:41 pm #
Aha! Little Graeme is actually Uncle Albert!!! That devious little bastard!
Comment by Karen S. on 10/15 @ 1:45 pm #
The story is really interesting and I’ve had some unpleasant comments directed at me on a few of the blogs for not following the party line about the Democrats use of a child and the Frost family situation. Along with calling me “pathetic,” the last comment of the argument is usually something like, “I’m just glad there was healthcare available for these children when they were badly injured.” But that is, in fact, a harsher slam on the parents than anything I could think of saying about them. That is, in fact, saying that one believes that faced with the choice of holding onto possessions or paying for medical care for an injured child, the parents would have chosen their cars and their house and their commercial property.
Pro-SCHIP expansion bloggers have told us that the 4 children are all on full scholarships to these private schools and theres another one that raises more questions than it answers. I wonder why they don’t see it: Why would these private schools be raiding Baltimore public schools of middle class white kids? Isn’t that an odd mission for private school scholarships?
Pingback by "Truth about Bush's SCHIP veto doesn't match harsh rhetoric" on 10/15 @ 2:34 pm #
[...] Tomas asks in the comments to an earlier post: Why can’t these debates ever work like [...]
Comment by Orion on 10/15 @ 3:48 pm #
SCHIP was designed in 1997 to enable the poor to transition from welfare to the workforce w/o worrying about losing their government-paid health care insurance (Medicaid). A few curmudjeons like me warned at the time that it would experience “mission creep” and wind up being just another middle class entitlement program; some future Democrat Congress would find an excuse to extend the benefits to people who could already afford private health care insurance.
I’ll take my trophy now. The Democrats weren’t in power *a year* before my prediction came true, were they?
Comment by Soaring Patriotic Eagle on 10/15 @ 3:56 pm #
Goddam fucking liberal dems, terrorists all. Kill them. Kiil them dead and hang and burn them. They hate USA.
Comment by Kresh on 10/15 @ 4:01 pm #
Hey! A troll! Sweet!
Fire up the BBQ. We’re eatin’ good tonight!
Comment by Dan Collins on 10/15 @ 4:07 pm #
Right on!
Nice try, fuckwad.
Comment by Soaring Patriotic Eagle on 10/15 @ 4:07 pm #
The USA is powerful. The liberals are weak. They will be eliminated. I can’t wait until the next emergency and then we can take care of them.
Comment by Dan Collins on 10/15 @ 4:09 pm #
Great. Meanwhile give us your email address and name, and we’ll make a post out of your interesting and very cogent thoughts.
Comment by A Fag on 10/15 @ 4:09 pm #
Hey, thats not very reasoned discourse. You sound unhinged.
Comment by Merovign on 10/15 @ 4:10 pm #
One almost wonders which regular troll shares an IP address, “coincidentally,” with SPE.
Comment by Dan Collins on 10/15 @ 4:10 pm #
What’s not very reasoned discourse? A person with convictions ought not stand behind anonymity.
Comment by McGehee on 10/15 @ 5:05 pm #
Sounds like a volunteer. Strap on that bomb vest!
Comment by Darleen on 10/15 @ 6:09 pm #
Don’t ya just love the trolls? Gotta say though, their quality is lacking
Soaring’s IP is 72.160.165.16
A Fag’s is 72.160.169.205
both IP’s originate from CenturyTel Internet Holdings, Inc., Monroe, LA
… just off enough we got here just one child playing the “nyah nyah nyah” fling-poo game.
Comment by Pablo on 10/15 @ 9:43 pm #
Moby sucks and his followers do too.
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 11:24 am #
You people are STILL foaming at the mouth over this family? Even though even McConnell’s aide and the WSJ said they were legit, followed the programs rules and were the exactly kind of people who were supposed to be helped by SCHIP?
Now they’re not supposed to react to vile, RW attacks?
Hey – do me a favor. Please – line up, take all this venom on prime time – show the world what real conservativs are made up.
If you’re so proud of yourselves, that’s no problem – right?
Comment by Dan Collins on 10/16 @ 11:29 am #
That’s kind of funny, considering the hysterics over McConnell’s aide “propagating” falsehoods regarding the family. Is that why the Dems have come up with a new family to be the face of SCHIP? Are you aware that most Americans want this to be for the truly needy, and are concerned that people will drop their coverage to sign on?
You know why? Because they hate the children.
Comment by McGehee on 10/16 @ 11:29 am #
The point you’re so studiously missing is this: They’re lobbying to EXPAND a program that already serves people who are as well-off as they are.
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 11:38 am #
And how am I missing anything?
“They’re lobbying to EXPAND a program that already serves people who are as well-off as they are.”
So what? Then go after the program – not the people. Why attack these people in such a personal way?
Unless you’re just spiteful that a family, believing in a cause they know full well about, is backing something that’s unacceptable to you, for partisan reasons.
Why shouldn’t they make their case? Seriously, people. Why? And why can’t your side make yours without personal smears on this family?
People make a case to Congress or go on TV shows constantly, making a plea for this cause or that cause. Are they all pimps?
What EXACTLY has you people in such a frenzy over this one?
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 11:52 am #
Also – (damn, don’t remember how to use the quote feature so I’ll have to do it the old-fashioned way.)
“That’s kind of funny, considering the hysterics over McConnell’s aide “propagating†falsehoods regarding the family. Is that why the Dems have come up with a new family to be the face of SCHIP? ”
The aide didn’t seem to think it was funny. Apparently, he was emailing RW bloggers and asking them to cease and desist – the family was legit. Now why he didn’t know this ..BEFORE he encouraged the attack dogs, I don’t know. Isn’t that a question worth asking, friends?
And if the there’s another family willing to speak up – I guess they’re showing they won’t be bullied. And you people do know this bill was bi-partisan..right? What words do you have for people like Orrin Hatch?
Also what’s really funny – people in here asking where LW adults are when you’re acting this way. Make an argument without personal attacks – how hard can that be?
“Are you aware that most Americans want this to be for the truly needy, and are concerned that people will drop their coverage to sign on?”
Do you really trust that they have the full details about the program? That still doesn’t change this weird, unhinged ranting about a family – who QUALIFIED, under the rules of the program.
Comment by Jeff G. on 10/16 @ 11:58 am #
Actually, the “ranting” is over the Dem’s use of a kid already covered under the program to make a case (written for him) for the expansion of the program.
It is an emotional appeal, and it was a dishonest one, given that the representative we were supposed to feel for was already covered by the program.
Further, the family who is covered — and is shilling for an increase in coverage — elected not to get insurance to begin with, choosing instead to invest in property, etc.
Many of us are tired of this culture of ABSOLUTE MORAL AUTHORITY being propagated by the left. It cheapens discourse on legitimate policy questions.
You may want to move on to a more recent post on the topic.
That way, you can save your matches for the next strawman you wish to set ablaze.
Comment by JD on 10/16 @ 12:08 pm #
bippity bopitty boo – Who, but who, has attacked the kid?
If the Dems were so secure in their enlightened policy position, why not send Pelosi or Reid out to make their case? Why hide behind a disabled 12 year old? I have no problem criticizing the parents, and if that is considered a “smear” to the Left (stating facts) then so be it.
The PARENTS chose to refinance their house, buy multiple vehicles, and commerical property prior to purchasing health insurance for their family, before the accident. Their priorities were way out of whack.
Then, the parents pimped out their disabled child to the Dems, who used the child as a human shield against criticism.
If you want to make the case for expanding this program to families making $82,000, do so. Quit hiding behind the Dems reprehensible conduct and beating the holy hell out of strawmen.
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 12:13 pm #
It’s not “ranting” – it’s RANTING. It’s the real thing and people like Michelle Malkin seem to be getting worse. Now a two-year old health care has her in a screaeming dither.
Did you people scream “Human shields” when Republicans used “snowflake babies” for a human face on a cause that they backed?
What?
I can’t hear you.
Attack the expanded program – NOT THE FAMILY. What about that escapes you guys?
And speaking of dishonesty – the bill was
BI-PARTISAN and if anyone pretends to own morality and values – it’s Republicans and the Right. I can back that up and I don’t need posts from a MB to do it. It is beside the point, though.
And if there’s a new thread..great.
Maybe more adults are at that one?
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 12:16 pm #
“Then, the parents pimped out their disabled child to the Dems, who used the child as a human shield against criticism.
”
Do you even hear yourselves?
You’re all using this absurd, overwrought rhetoric that’s all over RW blogs. “Human shield!”. The parents “pimped the child!!!”.
You’re saying the children are whores for their parents. That’s what I call — family values!!
Idiots.
Comment by JD on 10/16 @ 12:16 pm #
No, dipshit. Your program, your need to defend it. So far, all I have seen is the Dems trot out 12 year olds and anecdotes, and scream quit attacking a 12 year old, anytime that anyone criticizes the program.
You are clearly an adult, if adults is defined as people that can type.
Does it make you feel big to beat up a strawman?
Comment by Dan Collins on 10/16 @ 12:16 pm #
Hmmmm. Ranting, huh? Any of you guys heard of this “ranting” thing?
Comment by JD on 10/16 @ 12:17 pm #
No, we are specifically criticizing the parents, and justifiably so.
Would you allow your children to be used in such a craven political manner?
Comment by JD on 10/16 @ 12:19 pm #
Ranting, attacking, and smears are Leftist words for telling the truth.
Comment by JD on 10/16 @ 12:20 pm #
Idiot – How does trotting out this 12 year old to provide the political response to the President’s radio address support the position of expanding this program?
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 12:23 pm #
“Ranting, attacking, and smears are Leftist words for telling the truth.
”
Just when I thought you clowns couldn’t be more comic…
I’m sure it would take less than 3 seconds to find where a RW hero used those words, many times over. That’s the best you can do?
Seriously.
Rush and O’Reilly use “ranting leftists used smear attacks on me” every time they’re quoted at Media Matters.
Try again.
Comment by maggie katzen on 10/16 @ 12:27 pm #
m’kay timer’s running.
Comment by maggie katzen on 10/16 @ 12:28 pm #
time’s up.
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 12:29 pm #
I swear…what you do guys miss about the words..”Bi-partisan”.
The bill may be flawed. I’m asking why RWers (insecure ones) don’t say why the bill is flawed – they go after the family. And the Frosts are not even allowed to defend themelves? That causes a whole new burst of phony outrage?
Did you chaps miss that even the WSJ editorial that said RWers were going too far?
Snowflake babies and circling around Teri Schiavo – all good, great, holy. For Republicans. Democrats give a family a platform and no tactic is too low?
If you REALLY care about kids, then attack the goodamn program – NOT the parents.
Jesus. It’s not that hard. Stop obsessing about LWers and go ask your grandmother if that kind of behavior is right.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 10/16 @ 12:30 pm #
Someone needs to cut back on their caffeine input.
Comment by maggie katzen on 10/16 @ 12:31 pm #
THEY DO say it’s flawed. if you looked around the rest of the site you’d see that. instead. you come in here swinging at some illusion of what you think our position is and miss.
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 12:32 pm #
Pretending Rush/O’Reilly don’t go on about “smears” all the time…
“Caution, you are about to enter a no spin zone. “The Factor†begins right now.
Hi, I’m Bill O’Reilly reporting tonight from Washington. Thank you for watching us. Smearing Tony Snow – that’s the subject of this evening’s “Talking Points†Memo.
It took about 10 seconds for the far left smear websites to begin attacking Tony Snow, who today was appointed the new presidential spokesman. The smear sites spit out the usual out of context garbage, trying to portray Snow as anti-Bush because Tony did criticize the president on occasion, and at the same time saying he’s a shill for Bush. Not much logic in the smear world.”
Keep pretending the Right never uses these words…more dishonesty – good.
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 12:35 pm #
Look, people – if it’s about the bill itself – then you don’t have to start a thread with bile about the parents.
On and on…”reporting about the parents”!!
What did they do wrong?
Nothing.
Even the McConnell aide said that – are you guys incapable of backing off an argument that hurts you?
Hey…swell. Good for the sane side.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 10/16 @ 12:39 pm #
I think someone needs a hug.
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 12:44 pm #
The best part is – right-wingers here can’t begin to defend this behavior so they’re left to whining about generalizations & LWers or making childish remarks.
Make it about the program. Write Orrin Hatch, other Republicans who backed it. Give them hell.
Just not this other nonsense, people. Anyone can see that.
Thanks for the ..ah…adult-type discussion.
Comment by Jeff G. on 10/16 @ 1:32 pm #
Babbity seems to think we’re fans of O’Reilly or Orin Hatch, or that I supported those calling for special Schiavo legislation — I guess because we rightwingers all fall in line — then goes on to bemoan the generalizations about the leftwing, and ignore the reason that trotting out this family was poor form, as it has actually been argued here.
He then declares victory, sniffs, and with a hearty high-ho “I said GOOD DAY, SIR!” is on his way back to the land of righteous indignation.
And not a bit more informed for his sojourn.
How sadly typical.
Toodles.
Comment by JD on 10/16 @ 1:32 pm #
bippitty, boppitty, boo
BBBBBBBBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTT. Wrong. Dead wrong.
They failed to provide any meaningful security for their children, prior to the accident. They chose to invest in commercial property and cars instead of providing health insurance for their children.
Orrin Hatch was wrong. Anybody who voted in favor of this was wrong. Is the fact that you call it bi-partisan supposed to be some Holy Grail of legislation? How about we apply that same standard to Iraq and the Patriot Act? Nah, didn’t think so.
Now, go back to arguing with the voices in your head.
P.S. They did, in fact, smear Tony Snow. Wishing him death was really mature and classy. And, since you obviously do not know your audience, the vast majority of us could not give a rats ass what Rush or O’Reilly talk about.
Comment by McGehee on 10/16 @ 1:42 pm #
I see Bascally Babbitty is still making a career out of missing the point. Anything that isn’t entirely encompassed by Teh Narrative® is simply inconceivable.
Comment by JD on 10/16 @ 1:46 pm #
The feigned inability (I am giving it credit for being smarter than it lets on) to understand the difference between criticizing the Dems and the parents and attacking the kid is just so cute. And the idea that we cannot defend our opposition to the expansion of this program is precious.
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 3:25 pm #
“And the idea that we cannot defend our opposition to the expansion of this program is precious.”
Um…so do it. And maybe you could ask the originator of this thread to do the same.
The nonsense about “pimping”, “Human shields” — give me a damn break. Can someone please calm down and just make the against the PROGRAM. Not the parents.
How many of you people even watched the segment on Olbermann? The parents didn’t attack Bush or Republicans or even people like Rush. They’re hard-working people, they have sweat equity in their home, they have been through a horrific experience and would like to see more families get a break on health care for their kids. And no one pimped a child – they made a case for themselves, without attacking anyone.
Can’t people disagree without that without going after them in a personal way? Or me…although that may be too much for this place.
If so – can you do it now?
Comment by Jeff G. on 10/16 @ 3:36 pm #
Babbity, a sampling:
And you wonder why no one is interested in having a conversation with you, Babbity?
The only person in a “frenzy” here is you. Did you read the other post? Because if not, let me help you out, and talk about “the program”:
You are now free to rebut.
Comment by McGehee on 10/16 @ 3:37 pm #
That’s the risk they took in making their appeal in a personal way.
They could have given the response to Bush’s radio address themselves, instead of putting the kid up to it. They opted to go for the heartstring approach, and it bit them in the ass.
Too late for the do-over, Babbitty. So sorry.
Comment by JD on 10/16 @ 4:46 pm #
Yes, they did pimp their child, when they allowed him to deliver a political speech for the Dems.
I admit I did not watch Olbermann. I was doing things far more entertaining, like stick #2 lead pencils in my eyes, using pumice lotion as a lubricant, and using a jackhammer to clean my cuticles.
Here is my substantive response, bippitty. People that make $45,000+ and own a home, commercial property, and multiple nice vehicles should not be eligible for a program for insurance for children of the poor. Period. If we are extending insurance coverage to these children, it is wrong, and it encourages people to spend money on other things, like cars or commercial property, rather than spending their money appropriately on things that should be a higher concern for a family, like health insurance. If a family opts out, makes a conscious choice to not purchase healthcare when by all accounts they could have afforded it prior to the accident, we are encouraging irresponsible behavior.
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 9:37 pm #
From Jeff G. –
“The only person in a “frenzy†here is you.”
Well, no – because I’m not the one using the canned language of phony outrage. I don’t say that the kids from the Republican “snowflake baby” photo ops are used like “human shields” and I don’t call their parents “pimps”. I hated the way Teri Schiavo was used but I never slammed her parents.
I never claimed I was defending the SCHIP program, either – I just asked why this sect of RWers can’t stick to the real subject which IS..the bill. Not the parents. Not that the parents have done a single thing that’s wrong.
Now the rest of your post was about the bill, not the parents. I don’t know that what you posted was right and Eugene Robinson was wrong but – kudos. Was that so hard?
And to JD, who said:
“That’s the risk they took in making their appeal in a personal way.”
I can’t believe I have to explain something that’s so basic – the parents gave a personal story. That is nothing like attacking anyone on a personal basis – like calling the parents “pimps” or accusing them of hiding behind their children.
Why do people keep acting as if these people aren’t legit when even McConnell’s aide admitted they were? It that so hard to answer?
Anyway – bottom line – stick with the straight forward approach. You may lose using a ridiculous label like “human shield” but you look far more decent and you make a much better argument.
Comment by Jeff G. on 10/16 @ 10:15 pm #
If you’d clicked through the link I offered you originally, you’d have seen that exact post.
Which, I should mention, was on the site before you started asking for something substantial about the bill.
So no, it wasn’t difficult for me — though you seem to have a problem understanding how exactly blogs work.
In point of fact, the bill itself was discussed over and over again.
Further, you seem to have made a lot of assumptions about the people who populate this place — and you were wrong on nearly every one.
And that tells me you weren’t interested in doing your homework; instead, you were just looking for some “wingnuts” to scold.
You came to the wrong place.
You want to know what I feel about Schiavo, O’Reilly, Hannity, et al? I have a search function. I suggest using it next time — or at least perusing the main page to see what else has been written about a given topic as a follow up — before showing your ass like this.
And I say that with all due respect to you and your ass.
Comment by JD on 10/16 @ 10:45 pm #
Bippitty, boppitty, boo – Actually, the quote you attributed to me was from McGehee, for the sake of accuracy and all.
The parents did not give a personal story, their 12 year old kid did, when the parents “loaned” the child to the Dems to rebut the Presidents speech. You may not consider that to be wrong, but it tells us much about you.
Nobody claims they were not legit, we pointed out that if they fall within the current definition of who is qualified, there is no good reason to extend coverage further than it exists right now, unless the goal is incremental national socialist medicine.
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 10:59 pm #
I give you a compliment, you give me crankiness.
“If you’d clicked through the link I offered you originally, you’d have seen that exact post.”
I did click the link earlier, I didn’t see anything on the subject. I thought you gave me the wrong thing – and you did. Just checked it again – it was called “Defeatism run amok” and it was not on this subject. And since it was Powerline..frankly, I did not linger to hunt down whatever it was that you meant to post.
I don’t know what your problem is – the subject of the thread is all about the parents. Right up there:
” ..who dither and expect their neighbors to pick up the slack. Cuz, like, they are entitled to a share of their neighbor’s paycheck regardless.”
And that’s one of the nicer snipes at the parents. If you object to that extremely judgmental and meaningless deflection from the real issue, then say so. So don’t blame me for seeing what’s right there, at the start of the thread and in the body of the thread. It’s nothing I dreamed up.
If you people insist on calling the parents “pimps” and making it all about them and stoop to calling them irresponsible – when they ARE legitimate, then don’t cry if you’re called on it. (Hey..I even managed to do without calling any of you such names.) And if you all think most Americans accept that as decent behavior, I think you’re 100% wrong.
But please…don’t stop just because it makes your circle look quite detached from the mainstream and rather desperate . I’m all for y’all keeping it up.
Do just as publicly as you like. More than you like, even. It’s time to show off how extreme this side of the conservative movement can be. With the Coulter misfire about “perfecting Jews”, the timing is perfect.
But you might stop blaming people for being able to read. Blame the parents (any parents) and expect to asked why.
Comment by JD on 10/16 @ 11:12 pm #
What is the matter with pointing out the facts about the parents? I could understand criticism were someone smearing (in Leftist talk that means telling the truth) the child, but we are not doing that. Pointing out that they prioritized protecting their children and health insurance below renovating their house, buying cars, and buying commercial property is not a smear, an attack, or vicious in any manner. It is the truth.
This whole Babbity one-note, “Talk about the substance” is laughable. It is the Dems political stunt, having a 12 year old child give a political speech to a national audience, as the rebuttal to the President’s weekly radio address, the first time this has ever happened BTW, that immediate shifted the focus away from the content, and to the delivery mechanism. If you think it is appropriate to use a 12 year old in that manner, fine. But that does not make it right.
So, other than the story, why were the Frosts selected. They already qualified, and would qualify under any proposed version of this bill. How does their story serve as a foundation for the Dems position? It does nothing to do so. They were chosen because it is a heart breaking story due to their tragedy. They were willingly used by the Dems.
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 11:13 pm #
Now this is getting ridiculous…
“Nobody claims they were not legit..”
Really? Then why are the parents even mentioned? What is this supposed to mean?
“Mr. Frost had no idea that when Harry Reid’s staffers put words in Graeme’s mouth that someone might want to do a little reporting on those behind the curtain.”
They’re LEGIT, as you admit. So what is there to report about them? Why does Darleen say they’re irresponsible parents?
It’s very simple, JD. The parents of snowflake babies or the Frosts may do something I wouldn’t do – but then, I’m not in their shoes. So I’m not going to presume to damn them because there’s a cause they believe in. That goes for any of them. If you want to damn them all, I guess you’ll do that.
And the parents did give a personal story – on Olbermann. They were classy, quiet, heartfelt.
“..we pointed out that if they fall within the current definition of who is qualified, there is no good reason to extend coverage further than it exists right now, unless the goal is incremental national socialist medicine.”
If the thread had started with that and stuck with that, you wouldn’t have any complaints from me. Even with the old Boogeyman “socialist medicine” addition. But that’s not how it started, and not how it continued.
So…good night.
Comment by JD on 10/16 @ 11:22 pm #
You were the one that created that strawman about us claiming that they were not legit. If you have a hard time following your own arguments, then maybe you should pay closer attention.
The parents were mentioned because of what they did, as has been clearly outlined. That you choose not to address the substance of the issue, and create additional strawpeople, suggests that you are a troll out trying to score some political points, rather than discussing the issues.
They ARE irresponsible parents. They prioritized their childrens healthcare, and failed to provide for same, behind automobiles, commercial property, and renovations for their home. If that is not irresponsible, I do not know what is.
Look around. Just because the substance of the issue is not being discussed in this thread does not mean it has not been discussed, or we are unwilling to do so. It has been discussed at length. Obviously, you chose to not look around, and just started in with your “discuss the issue!” mantra.
As I said, had the Dems actually wanted a debate on this issue, Pelosi or Reid would have given the rebuttal, not the Frosts 12 year old.
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 11:49 pm #
I can’t help it – this is just bizarre. It’s like trying not to watch a train wreck.
“You were the one that created that strawman about us claiming that they were not legit.”
A strawman? That’s the entire basis for this thread, and for the many RW nutter attacks on the family. Not that all of those attacks are anyone here’s fault but they’re still there from people like Limbaugh and Malkin. McConnell’s aide sent off a email asking bloggers to stop going off on the family because they were legit. Obviously, the things he was seeing gave the man some alarm.
Speaking of a strawman – I think you said something before that made no sense. You claimed I said the bill was acceptable or perfect because it was bi-partisan. Of course, I never said that and it wasn’t my point. I was pointing out the false partisanship some RWers keep foisting into the discussion, as if everythig is left vs. right. That’s not true, and it wasn’t true with this bill – obviously.
I still find it amazing that people think they know about these parents to call them irresponsible – and worse.
“Look around. Just because the substance of the issue is not being discussed in this thread ..”
Hello. But the attack on the parents IS the subject of this thread. I’m supposed to nurse you people into acting like adults here or hunt down RWers who aren’t acting badly? (Trust me – I know they exist – which is what I’ve been trying to get across.) I don’t think so. You all had the opportunity to object to the tone and content of the original poster. I didn’t see that happen.
Stop blaming people for seeing what’s in the thread and all over the fringe right, at this moment. Make it about the bill itself – NOT the parents.
Jesus. Your Darleen person acts badly and you blame people for noticing. Talk about a lack of responsibility.
And if you want to blame Democrats, well.. that is debatable but it’s a legitimate subject but it always is fair to say that it’s a common practice, from both sides.
It’s only a billion times better than calling the parents something contemptable like “pimps”. That says far more about you than about them – and you don’t enjoy that bit of truth – then don’t do it.
Comment by Babbitty on 10/16 @ 11:51 pm #
There was way too much garbled stuff in the last paragraph. (Pause for snarky retort.) I apologize for a lack of clarity.
I hope some of it gets across.
Comment by JD on 10/17 @ 12:00 am #
No, their legitimacy is not the issue. Their lack of parental responsibility is. Just because you cannot, or will not, understand that does not mean your version is right.
Do you think that failing to secure health care insurance for your children is responsible parenting? Where do you get off on dictating what we can talk about at this blog? If you wish, feel free to start your own. Just because we are not discussing what you want in this thread does not mean we cannot, or have not discussed the topic. It is just not being done here. People like you are really annoying. Jeff can post about whatever he wishes.
You used bi-partisan as some way to refute challenges that many of us have, especially with the Republicans who voted in favor of this bill. Just because people on both sides of the aisle want to expand the role of the government in healthcare does not make it right.
The only way you are going to “nurse” anyone into doing anything is if you have a 38DD, never mind.
It is common practice from both sides? Bullshit. Please cite the last time that the Republicans had a 12 year old give a political speech, a rebuttal of the President’s weekly radio address. Hint – this was the first time ever.
Yeah, I should not have said they pimped out their children. They just loaned them to the Dems for craven political purposes.
For all of your whining, you have yet to discuss the substance of this issue, which leads me to believe, even more strongly, that you have no desire to actually discuss the legislation.
Comment by JD on 10/17 @ 12:23 am #
Good Day, Sir.
Comment by JD on 10/17 @ 12:57 pm #
FWIW, bippitty boppitty, boo, Jeff just put up a substantive response to your one-note harping yesterday. We await your critical analysis, but will not be holding our breath. Douchenozzle.
Comment by BJTexs on 10/17 @ 1:37 pm #
THE HORSE IS DEAD. THE BEATEN BLOODY CORPSE IS ROTTING AND MAGGOTY AND WILL NEIGH NO MORE. BY ALL THAT IS HOLY LET THE HORSE LIE IN PEACE!!!!!
Oh, Jeff’s finally weighed in. LET THE FLOGGING RECOMMENCE!!!
Comment by JD on 10/17 @ 3:30 pm #
BJ – I will be fucking shocked if datadave or bippitty boppitty boo substantively reply to the new post.
Comment by JD on 10/17 @ 4:07 pm #
So far, datadave is true to form.
Comment by jack ass on 10/19 @ 1:42 am #
you are a big asshole
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