Former DNC Chairman Terry Mcauliffe, appearing moments ago on FOXNews’ “The Big Story,” laid out Democratic criticism of the administration’s GWOT strategy (paraphrasing):
1) We now see that the Taliban is reorganizing in Afghanistan—all because Bush (the inaccurate argument goes) “pulled the troops too soon” and “rushed them into Iraq” before the Afghan job was completed. In short, leaving to allow a sovereign Afghanistan to try to stand on its own two feet was a disastrous mistake.
2) The US needs to pull troops out of Iraq so that the Iraqis can handle the problems themselves and become a legitimate sovereign country rather than the protectorate of an imperialist US military. In short, leaving to allow a sovereign Iraq to stand on its own two feet is a moral, political, and strategic imperative.
In fairness, David Asman, filling in for John Gibson, didn’t ask Mcauliffe to reconcile these two arguments, which on their face at least appear to paint the Dems into a rather untenable rhetorical position. Consequently, I can’t say for certain how Terry would have tried to weasel out of the rather obvious inconsistency—though if I had to take a guess, I suspect he’d fall back on the Senate’s “bipartisan no-confidence vote in George Bush,” which essentially demanded that the President follow his own plan, and to update the Senate to tell them that he is indeed continuing to do so.
And yet this party netted how many millions of votes in 2004? Enough to make your hair stand on end, ain’t it?
Comment by Alec Baldwin on 11/30 @ 10:32 pm #
I’m sorry, I don’t see the inconsistency.
Comment by alppuccino on 11/30 @ 10:42 pm #
McAuliffe has obviously begun his career as some sort of FOX News “plant”. Kind of a covert Dick Morris type double agent, if you will.
What else could it be when you lay those two arguments side by side?
Those Da Vinci veneers don’t grow on trees, ya know.
Comment by x fact on 11/30 @ 10:57 pm #
It’s very simple. Iraq and Afghanistan are two very different countries, and the US must be dynamic enough to adjust to the differing responses of their peoples to our presence.
Also, the Bush Administration needs to learn how to handle its troop levels better. Leaving a country too soon can be just as bad as leaving too late. The Bush Administration has always claimed that they have enough troops in Afghanistan. But now it’s obvious that they were diverting the troops. The same pattern can be seen in through the Katrina prism, where the national guard troops were stationed in the wrong place… Iraq!
That’s what McAuliffe was trying to say. And I frankly I’m surprised you couldn’t figure out this line of thinking by yourself. (One last point: I doubt McAuliffe takes talking points from Dean).
Comment by B Moe on 11/30 @ 10:58 pm #
The Nazis keep reorganizing in Chicago. Does that mean we lost WWII?
I liked it better when history stayed the same and current events changed.
Comment by Lou on 11/30 @ 11:00 pm #
Illinois Nazis
I hate Illinois Nazis
Comment by Jeff Goldstein on 11/30 @ 11:02 pm #
x fact –
Ah. So the Dems are thinking exactly the same as the Rethugs—only they are right and the Rethugs are wrong (even if the facts on the ground tell a different story), because the Rethugs have it exactly ass backwards.
Is that the argument?
And does it matter, incidentally, that we still have troops in Afghanistan?—and that we are still fighting an al-Qaeda-led insurgency in Iraq?
(One last point: when ask to give one word on how he thinks Dean is doing as DNC chair, his word was “great.” Which suggests maybe he is on board with the Dean talking points—though with these weasels, it’s difficult to tell).
Comment by Tman on 11/30 @ 11:04 pm #
I’m sure that my buddy who is on his way back for his fourth tour of Afghanistan in three years on Tuesday will find it amusing that McCauliffe thinks we’ve “pulled out too soon”.
Because see, if we’ve pulled out, then why is he going back-again- for the thrid time?
He also never served a day in Iraq by the way. Those who say that we’ve abandoned Afghanistan could not be more mistaken. What’s scary is that one of those people who says this is the Former DNC Chariman.
You’re right Jeff, my hairs could cut glass right now.
Comment by me on 11/30 @ 11:05 pm #
I actually thought xfact was being sarcastic.
Comment by Defense Guy on 11/30 @ 11:08 pm #
The Republicans are wrong and the Democrats are right by the simply calculus of political affiliation. I think it has something to do with the fact that they captured Tinkerbelle and now have exclusive access to her pixie dust. Or maybe it’s massive narcissism.
Comment by Forbes on 11/30 @ 11:12 pm #
Jeff: It’s the same argument as that by the Democrats as: the Iraq post-major combant operations period was mismanaged because there weren’t enough troops to handle the terrorist insurgency, but the US needs to reduce its’ troop levels because the size of our military footprint is inciting the terrorist insurgency.
See that wasn’t hard. It was the argument John Kerry made when he gave a speech at Georgetown U recently.
It’s all very clever (or not so clever) circular reasoning. Along the lines of damned if you do, and damned if you don’t.
Comment by AnonymousDrivel on 11/30 @ 11:13 pm #
So what else is new? Terry McAuliffe and his parallel universalism of a Democratic party plays Cartman to Zell Miller’s Democratic party of Evil Cartmans. Up is down. Black is white. Right is wrong. All at the same time. Good thing for the party that H. Dean replaced him. Oops, they’re on the same planet. Maybe next time they’ll update their astronomical charts.
Comment by Sean M. on 11/30 @ 11:23 pm #
From the linked News Hounds article:
What, no scare quotes?
Comment by Pixy Misa on 11/30 @ 11:29 pm #
Pixie dust is overrated.
Basically, the Democrats rely on their voters having the attention span of a concussed goldfish. Much of the time they are right.
TW: I shall put them on the list, and they’ll none of them be missed.
Comment by rls on 11/30 @ 11:37 pm #
Jeff
It’s not what he said – it’s what he meant. BUSHROVECHENEYEVILHALLIBURTONFASCISTS!!
Comment by MayBee on 11/30 @ 11:42 pm #
Afghanistan was the New Vietnam and War For Oil(pipeline) before Iraq came along and claimed those titles. At which point Afghanistan became the war everyone had always supported (and Karl Rove should be fired for saying anything different). NATO is in charge of the international troops, there is a wide coaltion.
Terry’s just letting us know he can unleash the Vietnam Quagmire/Oil Pipeline meme again at any moment. After all, it’s cheap, it’s easy, the Tshirts are already printed up, and who said there could only be one New Vietnam?
Comment by Randy on 11/30 @ 11:46 pm #
I thought xfact was being sarcastic, too. That last line threw me a little, though.
Comment by Phoenician in a time of Romans on 11/30 @ 11:47 pm #
2) The US needs to pull troops out of Iraq so that the Iraqis can handle the problems themselves and become a legitimate sovereign country rather than the protectorate of an imperialist US military.
Would you care to quote what they’re actually saying in their own words? I haven’t seen this argument made; either I simply missed it or, as I suspect is more likely, you’re misrepresenting a more complex statement in order to pander to the prejudices of your readers.
Comment by Carin on 11/30 @ 11:52 pm #
Oh pander to me, Jeff, pander harder.
Oops, sorry, wrong thread.
(I think I just came. )
Comment by 6Gun on 12/1 @ 12:00 am #
The Socialist Dysfunctional National Committee? Works for me.
Comment by Bleeding Gums in a Time of Brick Walls on 12/1 @ 12:03 am #
You still here after the brutal humiliation of what was it, a few threads ago? Then probably you missed—or are missing—something.
Comment by Pilates in a time of Aerobics on 12/1 @ 12:03 am #
Based on his track record, I think Jeff can be accorded a bit of ‘good faith’ in his paraphrasing of Terry’s comments.
But, then, I’ve got a NetFlix form to fill out and I’m waiting for the balance of Jeff’s 1980s film selections.
Comment by Still Fucking Clueless in a Land of Accountability on 12/1 @ 12:05 am #
And I thought I was the moonbat!
Comment by Tom W. on 12/1 @ 12:05 am #
I don’t see the inconsistency.
The Dems criticized Bush for not taking preemptive action against al Qaeda in Afghanistan, while simultaneously criticizing him for taking preemptive action against Saddam in Iraq.
It’s that nuance thing again, which Neanderthal Rethugs just can’t understand. I’ll spell it out:
“Democrats good, Republicans bad.”
We need a chorus of chickens to chant it all the time, like in Orwell’s Animal Farm.
Comment by Jeff Goldstein on 12/1 @ 12:10 am #
I don’t have TIVO, Kevorkian in a time of Faith Healers, but that was the gist of Terry’s argument.
Instead of questioning my honesty, why don’t you pony up for a year’s worth of TIVO and drop it into my PayPal account.
Comment by Mark Levendus on 12/1 @ 12:14 am #
I wonder if the hippies would support us pulling our troops out of Bosnia and Germany and redeploying them to Afghanistan.
Seriously, how long are we going to remain in that German quagmire? Everybody knows that we are only there to exploit the schnitzel pipelines. I for one will no longer stand idly by while schnitzel fat cats use our brave sons and daughters to enrich themselves.
Death to big schnitzel!!!! You’re going up against the wall come November ‘06 bastards.
Comment by Phoenician in a time of Romans on 12/1 @ 12:33 am #
I don’t have TIVO, Kevorkian in a time of Faith Healers, but that was the gist of Terry’s argument.
So you claim. Sorry, but if you’re going to demand to know why Democrats support incoherent messages, you’re going to need more than dubious paraphrases from a wingnut blog.
Comment by Citroen in a Time of Humvees on 12/1 @ 12:44 am #
So get on it, Jeff.
Comment by kelly on 12/1 @ 12:45 am #
So you claim. Sorry, but if you’re going to demand to know why Democrats support incoherent messages, you’re going to need more than dubious paraphrases from a wingnut blog.
So who’s demanding, Phoney?
I take it as granted that “Democrats support incoherent messages.”
cf. John F’n Kerry, Presidentail campaign, circa 2004.
(I could gone on…)
Comment by rls on 12/1 @ 12:46 am #
Ectually, no he doesn’t. If you do not believe our exalted host, then you are welcome to provide said proof of his dishonesty or take your leave.
Asshole in the time of redundancy, the burden of proof is on the doubter. That be you. Tag. You’re shit.
Comment by rls on 12/1 @ 12:49 am #
Jeff,
Whatever happened to Ghandi? Did you spank him and send him home? Fetus in the time of Abortion sort of reminds me of him.
Comment by Pablo on 12/1 @ 12:53 am #
I watched the bit, and I’m surprised that no one has mentioned David Asman’s phrasing of the Dean question. It was something an awful lot like: “I’d ask you how your replacement, Howard Dean is doing, but you’d tell me he’s doing a great job, right?”
To which McAuliffe, doing the “smile and lie into the camera” bit he’s spent years failing to perfect, said “Yeah. He’s doing great!” Terry is no Baghdad Bob but he’s ours.
Comment by richard mcenroe on 12/1 @ 12:55 am #
rls– ghandi stunk up the place at Art Chrenkoff’s long enough. Leave him gone.
And are we talking about Terry “Oh, shit, even the Democratic Party fired me!” MacAuliffe? The guy they dumped because they thought HOWARD DEAN would be more professional?
Comment by Jeff Goldstein on 12/1 @ 12:57 am #
Dunno about the G-man. Out sniffing the wilderness for hidden Zionists, is my guess.
As for PIATOR challenging my honesty—well, like I said, I was paraphrasing, but I didn’t rush to make a post about it just to slime Terry Mcauliffe. That’d be like me rushing to take a dump in a landfill.
Or not. I’m pretty drunk right now.
Comment by Phoenician in a time of Romans on 12/1 @ 12:58 am #
Ectually, no he doesn’t. If you do not believe our exalted host, then you are welcome to provide said proof of his dishonesty or take your leave.
The burden of proof falls on the one making the claim. Jeff is claiming the Democrats said such and such.
He has conspiciously failed to provide any evidence of same.
Comment by Angel Dancing in a Time of Pinheads on 12/1 @ 12:58 am #
Ha! But did YOU walk dead into the camera, momentarily consider the consequences, swallow, and promise ME a full-ride socialist health care plan? Thot not.
Mr. Heinz, now he did.
Comment by Jeff Goldstein on 12/1 @ 1:02 am #
And because Jeff didn’t record it—and we have to rely on his word that his paraphrase is a paraphrase of something he didn’t make up out of whole cloth—we can safely say it never happened.
Schopenhauer would be so proud.
Comment by rls on 12/1 @ 1:06 am #
So, prove he is a lying sack of shit then. If I were you, I wouldn’t put up with it. I’d go hit the net looking for a transcript or a video or maybe even call TMac himself. I’d get to the bottom of this nefarious business.
Thankfully, I am not you.
Comment by Leper in a time of Birdflu on 12/1 @ 1:07 am #
Naked Testicle Spiderman: “It smells like they’re cooking beef in here.”
PIATOR: “Where’s the beef?!?!”
NTS: “I said, I smelled beef, not that I had any.”
PIATOR: “Where’s the beef?!?!”
NTS: “No really. Just smelled it. And I’m drunk.”
PIATOR: “You must SHOW ME THE BEEF or I’ll refuse to believe it exists!”
Comment by Nutsack in a Time of Eunuchs on 12/1 @ 1:11 am #
I think the basic, consistent message is “We, the party that almost lost the Cold War, gutted the U.S. military, handcuffed and perverted the CIA, ignored the growing threat of terrorism, used troop deaths for political gain and basically believe America is a flawed, racist, sexist, and Jesus-infested wasteland—well, we can handle any foreign policy crisis better than Republicans.”
Something like that.
Comment by JWebb on 12/1 @ 1:20 am #
I may be wrong, but I think Dickwad in the Time of Vasectomies is none other than Mojo pulling everbody’s chain. And doing a damn admirable job of it, too. . .
Comment by Espresso in a time of Decaf on 12/1 @ 1:21 am #
Cock!
Makes about as much sense as the rest of this bullshit.
Comment by Robb Allen on 12/1 @ 1:22 am #
I’ve officially stopped reading the comments and have gone straight to the handles. Priceless, all of them.
Comment by Robb Allen on 12/1 @ 1:25 am #
Seriously, someone’s gotta record these as a single post.
I’d do it but I think I just came.
Comment by Diarrhea in a Time of Imodium on 12/1 @ 1:29 am #
Why won’t anybody compliment me on how smart I am?
Comment by harrison on 12/1 @ 1:30 am #
Piator,
It’s just like a newspaper; if you don’t like it or don’t trust it, go read something else.
Jeff ain’t your’s to tell “jump”, prick.
Comment by Impotence in A Time of Orgies on 12/1 @ 1:32 am #
BRAGGART!!
Comment by kelly on 12/1 @ 1:32 am #
I may be wrong, but I think Dickwad in the Time of Vasectomies is none other than Mojo pulling everbody’s chain. And doing a damn admirable job of it, too. . .
That he might be some agent provacateur crossed my mind as well.
But Syphilis in the time of Penicillin is probably a certified leftie.
My call only.
Comment by rls on 12/1 @ 1:34 am #
Definitely!
Comment by Strung Cans in a Time of Wireless on 12/1 @ 1:38 am #
This is fun!
Comment by halitosis in the time of mouthwash on 12/1 @ 1:41 am #
Has anyone ever noticed how much Bush looks like a chimp?
Comment by Phonecian Formula in a Time of Rogaine on 12/1 @ 1:47 am #
HE’S AN OIL CHIMP, YEAH, THAT’S IT! With all those ILLICIT PROFITS I think HE JUST CAME!
Comment by sangria in a time of merlot on 12/1 @ 1:48 am #
And of course, for more Dem consistency, there’s Hillary and her “I stand by my vote for the war even though I was lied to and cheated and abused so the consequences can’t be my fault no not even a little bit…”
Comment by Head lice in the time of Kwell on 12/1 @ 1:48 am #
But, seriously, you don’t expect me to believe anything I read on a wingnut blog, do you?
Why do I even show up here?
I wouldn’t except as a forum for my towering intellect.
And the snacks….
Comment by Captain's Wafers in a time of Ritz on 12/1 @ 1:51 am #
We get snacks?
Comment by Flaccid in the time of Cialis on 12/1 @ 1:52 am #
And of course, for more Dem consistency, there’s Hillary and her “I stand by my vote for the war even though I was lied to and cheated and abused so the consequences can’t be my fault no not even a little bit…â€Â
Whoa, dude.
Change “my vote” to “my husband” and you’ve got something there.
Comment by Tumescent in the time of boys locker room on 12/1 @ 1:55 am #
Snack bar is unhosted.
Comment by Warts in a Time of Merrick on 12/1 @ 1:56 am #
I want PIE!
Comment by Cunnilingus in the time of Two Seconds on 12/1 @ 2:03 am #
Your insensitivity in the face of Phoenician’s attempt at honest debate is at the same time both galling and exhilarating.
Comment by Mead in a time of Merlot on 12/1 @ 2:04 am #
Damn you filthy grapes!
Comment by Glorious and Filigreed (Albeit Humorless) Nuance i on 12/1 @ 2:08 am #
This is Jeff’s blog so prove it, mister straw man.
tw: As I work my plan.
Comment by Crystal Set in a Time of XM on 12/1 @ 2:10 am #
”…Phoenician’s attempt at honest debate…”
Like a terrier on a pantleg.
Comment by Taylor in a time of Dr. Zaius on 12/1 @ 2:11 am #
YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT UP! DAMN YOU! GOD DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!
Comment by History in the time of Pompous Phoenicians on 12/1 @ 2:20 am #
Interesting fact about the Phoenicians. They were skilled and superior sea-farers and as such they colonized much of the area around them.
You know – nation building.
Oh, and they also preferred catching to pitching.
Comment by Felching in the time of hot tubs on 12/1 @ 2:22 am #
I really don’t understand how those phoenicians can stand that Arizona summer heat.
Comment by Jimmy the Greek in the time of Legal Gambling on 12/1 @ 2:29 am #
They’re bred for it.
Comment by Pork Rinds in a Time of Wheat Thins on 12/1 @ 2:30 am #
PITR states that Jeff has to prove that what he’s saying is true. I thought we’d established–with the help of the MSM and a certain jailed reporter–that readers/viewers must prove that what people report is false. All the double standards have become confusing…
I’d hardly say the PITR’s comments have anything to do with honest debate. The Fox news video will likely be posted at the website by tomorrow.
Sorry–had to get in on the fun n’ names…
Comment by riffin' in the time of jammin' mon on 12/1 @ 2:31 am #
I mean, really.
How hot is that summer heat? A buck fifteen? Buck twenty?
Those Phoenicians> Is there anything they can’t do?
Comment by Bidet in a time of toilet paper on 12/1 @ 2:32 am #
Silly wingnuts, mistaking Phoenicians for Carthaginians.
There you go again.
Comment by Soilent Green in the time of Guacomole on 12/1 @ 2:39 am #
Well I’ll bet they’d have a hard time keeping a nice potato salad fresh in that heat. I’m just sayin.
Comment by Bam Bam in a time of Elroy on 12/1 @ 2:41 am #
Whatever happened to Pebbles?
Comment by mojo on 12/1 @ 2:48 am #
You’re all missing the point – it doesn’t matter what the dems say, because it’s just talk to them. They’ll say whatever will garner the most votes, in their estimation. It’s just noise for the plebs. The elite understand these simple facts, and pay no attention..
C’mon, folks – nuance!
Comment by Bathing in a time of Smelly Hippies on 12/1 @ 2:48 am #
I demand pie!
Comment by Perianal Hair in the time of Brazilian Waxing on 12/1 @ 2:49 am #
This is just painful.
Comment by Hadith in the time of Apostasy on 12/1 @ 2:50 am #
Funniest thread…..ever!
Comment by Jimmy Kimmel in a Time of Adam Carolla on 12/1 @ 2:55 am #
Agreed!
Comment by Shybladder in time of public men' s urinals on 12/1 @ 2:57 am #
Uh…mojo?
Be a team player here, huh?
Comment by it's Phoenician in a Roman time!! on 12/1 @ 3:00 am #
I’ve seen funnier.
Comment by Jeff Gannon's Cock in a Time of Hypocrisy! on 12/1 @ 3:04 am #
Whatever do you mean?
Comment by Paraphrasing in a time of TIVO on 12/1 @ 3:04 am #
On topic!
Comment by Peter North in a time of Harry Reams on 12/1 @ 3:08 am #
You better cowboy up! I can go all night.
Comment by Cumming in the Pants of Lincoln on 12/1 @ 3:14 am #
This has gone too far. I’m embarrassed for all of you.
Comment by Half Nelson, Full Nelson, Father Nelson on 12/1 @ 3:14 am #
Spoke to soon. I’m out.
Comment by back-waxing in the women's shower on 12/1 @ 3:14 am #
Giddyap!
tw: she
Comment by Farfegnugen in a time of 10.5% unemployment on 12/1 @ 3:16 am #
Taylor in a time of Zaius is golden.
Comment by Moron in a........Oh fuck it on 12/1 @ 3:16 am #
or too soon for all you English speakers.
Comment by Bukkake in a time of scat on 12/1 @ 3:19 am #
Prove you are who you say you are, “Jeff.”
Comment by Obsessive-Compulsive in a Time of ADHD on 12/1 @ 3:20 am #
Jeff, your title is redundant.
Comment by Nachos in a time of Gorditos on 12/1 @ 3:22 am #
Jeff may ban us after this…
Comment by Robin Roberts on 12/1 @ 3:22 am #
I’m hurting myself, I’m laughing so hard.
Comment by Nostradumbass in the Time of Hawking on 12/1 @ 3:23 am #
And I noticed Mojo didn’t disabuse us of the notion that she/he is, in fact, an agent provocateur. Brilliant!
Comment by Trebuchet in a Time of Pudding on 12/1 @ 3:25 am #
Indeed, a Thread to be Saved for the Time of Rereading.
Comment by Heavy Metal in a Time of Swing on 12/1 @ 3:27 am #
tw: heavy
Comment by Stupid Real Name in a Time of Clever Handles on 12/1 @ 3:27 am #
Yeah, I just commented to get my cutesy nickname on here.
Comment by Oliver Willis in a Time of Rice Cakes on 12/1 @ 3:31 am #
NAMIST!!!
Comment by Howard Dean in the Time of Lieberman on 12/1 @ 3:39 am #
I’ll be back later. I’me still trying to wrap my mind around “Trebuchet in a Time of Pudding”.
Google isn’t helping, mind you.
TW: ideas – I have none at the moment.
Comment by Hermaphodite in a Time of Gender Diferentiation on 12/1 @ 3:44 am #
Waahhhh! Transcript, transcript, transcript, transcript, transcript, TRANSCRIPT!
Comment by Depends in a time of 2 minutes ago on 12/1 @ 3:46 am #
I’m all set. Thanks.
Comment by Rock and Roll in a Time of 5/4 on 12/1 @ 3:46 am #
I have nothing to add.
TW: Figures, as in, it.
Comment by Gerbils in a time of Gay Marriage on 12/1 @ 3:47 am #
DIETIST!
Comment by Cheese in a time of Tofu on 12/1 @ 3:47 am #
I keep seeing fifty-gallon tubs of tapioca flying through the air.
I think that takes care of the snacks, too.
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