January 7, 2014

The ice age we were promised in the 70s was upon us

…has shown up 40-years later. And is of course caused by anthropogenic global warming — which we were only recently told had beset us — either of which can only be forestalled by massive global wealth redistribution and the end of industry, without which, to borrow from a desperately rationalizing Bill Murray in Stripes, “all the the plants will die.”

Here’s the truth, though: the weather is controlled by the sun. Increased release of CO2 — which, as human exhalation, isn’t a pollutant just because 2 of 3 judges on a panel declare the EPA has the right to classify it as one, just as a penalty isn’t a tax just because 1 justice on a 9 justice panel declares it is, perhaps after a plate of bad oysters — actually feeds plants, creates oxygen, and is a barrier to naturally occurring cooling cycles.

Rednecks out burning rubber in ATVs — the very people who we’re told by leftists are too moronic to appear even on hunting shows — don’t have the magical power to affect our atmosphere or climate. And as we’ve become increasingly “green” in our technologies, we’re still nevertheless told that all that work to be environmentally friendly is not enough, that all the improvements we were told would protect the planet haven’t worked, and so require ever more concessions to the insatiable appetite for de-industrialization from the environmentalist movemnt.

Like everything else the left trots out with its sophistry and strained emotionalism, though, the whole climate change industry is, and always has been, at base about the restructuring of power, the re-configuring of global wealth, and the totalitarian control of individuals and industry through centralized, unelected bureaucracies beyond the reach of voters.

Coupled with the left’s desire to delegitimize state sovereignty and its constant longing for transnational progressivism embodied in World Courts and tribunals of those who’ve been groomed since birth to assume what they believe is their natural position as earth’s social engineers — people once again whose very value should naturally place them outside the temporary whims of the doltish herds and their ridiculous voting powers — climate “science,” proven always and forever to be as phony as the promise of “free” health care, is but the vehicle through which the progressive central planners hope to affect a worldwide restructuring of power and wealth.

Though not, of course, for themselves. Who will be quite adequately taken care of. For doing the difficult work of ruling the planet. Which one simply must do in the nicest shoes and custom suits, while being chauffeured around in reinforced town cars with body guards and diplomatic perks.

For the Greater Good. And because WHY DO YOU DENIALISTS HATE EARTH?

(h/t geoff B)

Posted by Jeff G. @ 10:51am
396 comments | Trackback

Comments (396)

  1. Pingback: Winter is Coming | Batshit Crazy News

  2. It is good I have a double coat

    Those Brahmas are freezing their humps off right now!

  3. Earth has been trying to kill off all life since before there was any. Earth started it.

  4. Indeed, McG. People like to pretend that Gaia or Mother Nature or Earth Mother or whatever is this wonderful, benevolent nursemaid, when the truth is she’s a psychopath who’ll try to kill you the first chance she gets. I can’t tell you how weary I get of being lectured to “respect nature” by a bunch of coddled city kids who’ve never slept a night on the ground in their lives.

  5. Agreed. Mother Nature is always waiting for us to drop our guard so she can kill us off.

    Rip currents in the ocean. Tidal waves and tsunamis. Earthquakes. Tornados. Hurricanes. Paralyzing blizzards with arctic temperatures. Baking heat. Poisoned wells. Poisonous insects and snakes. Hostile wild animals that look at us as a food source. Grasses that are invasive and have spines, thorns and stickers. Mold. Rodents that carry diseases.

    Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

  6. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

    Like a super-volcano?

  7. I am fairly certain that when the magnetic poles swap, that too will have been caused by Anthropogenic Global Warming.
    I am absolutely certain that Hillary will be able to stop the rise of the oceans.

  8. Dave, if she could reset our relationship with Russia, she can surely stop the rise of the oceans.

  9. Having their cake and eating it too.

    In 1974, Time Magazine blamed the cold polar vortex on global cooling.
    […]
    Forty years later, Time Magazine blames the cold polar vortex on global warming.

  10. WHY DO YOU DENIALISTS HATE EARTH?

    The hatred is mutual, as has been mentioned in previous comments. The more alienated folks are from actual nature, the more they idealize it.

    They all need to spend a couple nights in a tropical rain forest with nothing more than a tarp, a hunting knife, and a length of twine.

    Ten minutes of being bitten, stung, and munched on by all and sundry will send them screaming for the exits.

  11. From geoffb’s link:

    In Africa, drought continues for the sixth consecutive year, adding terribly to the toll of famine victims. During 1972 record rains in parts of the U.S., Pakistan and Japan caused some of the worst flooding in centuries. In Canada’s wheat belt, a particularly chilly and rainy spring has delayed planting and may well bring a disappointingly small harvest. Rainy Britain, on the other hand, has suffered from uncharacteristic dry spells the past few springs. A series of unusually cold winters has gripped the American Far West, while New England and northern Europe have…

    How does this text written in 1974 differ one iota from what is written today?

  12. Weren’t we all supposed to have starved to death from overpopulation by now?

  13. Paul Newman lives in a frozen wasteland in the future.

    It’s true. Robert Altman showed me.

  14. Are there Newman’s Own Eskimo Pops there? Because I bet they are really good.

  15. during the last ice age income inequality fell to levels what nearly everyone agreed were more or less acceptable is my understanding

  16. Clearly Charlie’s not being “reasonable” enough.

  17. Paul Newman lives in a frozen wasteland in the future.

    Could have been necessary to balance Warren Beatty dying in a frozen wasteland in the past.

  18. Paul Newman lives in a frozen wasteland in the future.
    It’s true. Robert Altman showed me.

    Well, at least he knows how to make a bonfire out of Robert Wagner and Susan Flannery.

  19. Yeah, I know that one is a fake. Funny, though.

  20. Weren’t we all supposed to have starved to death from overpopulation by now?

    Or killed off by some super drug-resistant bug. Wait – we’re still working on that one.

  21. What saved us from all the disasters from which we were all supposed to die ?

    That’s right – environmental sociology.

  22. Run run Rudolph DK save Christmas!

  23. There are about 1,500 active land volcanoes on Earth. There are tens of thousands beneath the oceans. I wonder how much accurate data we have regarding the past activity of these volcanoes and the countless others that are now inactive. I wonder what a change in water temperature due to volcanic activity might do to ocean currents. I wonder what a change in ocean currents might do to ….

  24. A good volcanic eruption spews as much CO2 as humans have generated for centuries. A really good eruption will take care of any climate problems “caused by humans” by wiping the vast majority of us out.

  25. Again, Gaia would just as soon be rid of us.

  26. Pingback: The Camp Of The Saints

  27. In 1974, Time Magazine blamed the cold polar vortex on global cooling.
    […]
    Forty years later, Time Magazine blames the cold polar vortex on global warming.

    Interesting scientific fact. Cooling, warming, whatever, etc., and so what?…the solution is the same.

    MORE GOVERNMENT!!

  28. Gaia needs a sense of humor – like God has.

  29. Susan Flannery – good looking gal in her heyday.

  30. As I recall it, her manikin/double went out the high-rise window in flames.

  31. Here’s the truth, though: the weather is controlled by the sun. Increased release of CO2 — which, as human exhalation, isn’t a pollutant just because 2 of 3 judges on a panel declare the EPA has the right to classify it as one, just as a penalty isn’t a tax just because 1 justice on a 9 justice panel declares it is, perhaps after a plate of bad oysters — actually feeds plants, creates oxygen, and is a barrier to naturally occurring cooling cycles. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/#sthash.yQUZ6WuI.dpuf

    “CO2 doesn’t contribute to warming – it’s a barrier to cooling,” said the dumbest thing ever.

    that all the improvements we were told would protect the planet haven’t worked – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/#sthash.yQUZ6WuI.dpuf

    Or really, haven’t even been tried.

    Like everything else the left trots out with its sophistry and strained emotionalism, though, the whole climate change industry is, and always has been, at base about the restructuring of power, the re-configuring of global wealth, and the totalitarian control of individuals and industry through centralized, unelected bureaucracies beyond the reach of voters. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/#sthash.yQUZ6WuI.dpuf

    Because giving a shit how much of Florida disappears under the waves is totalitarian.

    And because WHY DO YOU DENIALISTS HATE EARTH?

    I would bet on a lack of critical thinking skills.

    Welcome back Jeff, although Darleen was running things just fine.

  32. Sounds to me like someone’s self esteem is taking a horrible beating and Suicide is painless

  33. Because giving a shit how much of Florida disappears under the waves is totalitarian.

    I would bet Colorado disappears beneath the waves before Florida does, and I would bet on both of those happening before you become a sentient being.

  34. I would like to stress that I have never promoted the banning of Dog Vomit, only questioned the lifestyle choices of those engaging nthe smelly mess. Good naturedly of course.

    I like Jeff’s policy of reserving banning for only the most deserving of social contract violators. I think this one is pushing the issue and asking for it.

    As I said, I believe his experience here has been less, ah, fulfilling than he lets on.

  35. Hey, Dog Vomit, get back to us when they start growing grapes in Greenland. Again.

  36. “I would bet on a lack of critical thinking skills.”

    You exhibit a lack of critical thinking skills. Exemplify even…

  37. “Because giving a shit how much of Florida disappears under the waves is totalitarian.”

    If you give a shit with guns, force, and are an agency that unilaterally controls what it is allowed to control then yeah it gets pretty totalitarian. Also Florida isn’t disappearing under any waves.

  38. ““CO2 doesn’t contribute to warming – it’s a barrier to cooling,” said the dumbest thing ever. – ”

    see Laffer Curve, Game Theory, and DEMAND CREATES JOBS. Lol.

  39. “Or really, haven’t even been tried.”

    Yeah the theory (whatever it is) has NEVER EVER REALLY BEEN TRIED which is why it appeared to fail, multiple times, but didn’t really. That’s a central pillar of the left right there.

  40. if Florida disappears under the waves we gonna have a situation

  41. I would bet Colorado disappears beneath the waves before Florida does, and I would bet on both of those happening before you become a sentient being. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048612

    You don’t know the difference between “a leading”, and “the leading”, so whatever you bet on it’s money in the bank to bet on the opposite.

  42. You don’t know the difference between “a leading”, and “the leading”, so whatever you bet on it’s money in the bank to bet on the opposite.

    No, DV, as has been repeatedly pointed out, you were the one who couldn’t tell the difference, and I am the one who pointed out your lie.

    Keep digging. (cv “sentient” )

  43. >so whatever you bet on it’s money in the bank to bet on the opposite. <

    sez the dude in the "phd bubble"

  44. “You don’t know the difference between “a leading”, and “the leading”, so whatever you bet on it’s money in the bank to bet on the opposite. ”

    You were the chump with the shitty wording in that exchange. You won no points or glory. You looked exactly like the mouthy clueless twerp that you are.

  45. kalifornia disappears into the sea that will be burpbank’s fault

  46. Might as well blame frakking for that one. Yoko Ono is a performance scientist after all.

  47. steve doesn’t have a Ph.D, nr. You are conflating him with the other troll, dalek, who isn’t even a Ph.D. candidate yet.

  48. I doubt Steve even has a Sunny D to be honest.

  49. I would be willing to stipulate that DV has access to a Mickey D’s, though.

  50. Here is a good example of how Proggs think, that is, how government power and control are the real agenda of every issue they address.

    Their whole battle to save the planet from climate change is based on the premiss they can actually do something that will influence the weather on the planet, and guide the climate to the optimum experience for mother nature and all her charges.

    Yet, when Gov. Moonbeam, California progg extraordinaire, wants to actually control the weather and save the state from drought during the driest year in the history of record keeping, by seeding the clouds in hopes of getting a trace of snow to fall in the Sierras, so the coastal elite won’t have to shut down agriculture in order to flush their low flow toilets this summer, the environmentalists successfully shut him down.

    We be in big trouble here in California, and I wouldn’t expect a whole lot of cheap food in the years to come if I was you, either…

  51. >who isn’t even a Ph.D. candidate yet.<

    i'll have fries with that mr. phd

  52. Go ahead and scoff at environmental sociology. I’ll scoff with you.

  53. Go ahead and scoff at environmental sociology. I’ll scoff with you.

    The hell with environmental sociology, I want – nay, demand – environmental equality !

    Look at this,not only are we denied the CO2 of other eras, but we are nearly a CO2 desert !

  54. Something must be done!

    I’ve got it: a new government agency.

  55. I bought a French Dip. I’m doing my part!

  56. I’ve got it: a new government agency.

    Perfect – but can they also address anthropogenic continental drift ?

  57. Their whole battle to save the planet from climate change is based on the premise they can actually do something that will influence the weather on the planet, and guide the climate to the optimum experience for mother nature and all her charges.

    No, the whole climate change thing is to centralize ever more power and to hamstring the free market as much as possible.

    “When the facts don’t make sense, check your assumptions.” — Dr. Greg House

  58. Geez di, read my whole comment. You’ll find the first sentence edifying.

  59. Steve-O: James Hanson has been championing the AGW theorem, attributing the impending chaos to increases in CO2, which will bake us all where we stand. He even testified before Congress to that effect.

    Did you know that wasn’t his first foray into Testifying Before Congress On Climate Issues? Did you know that in the mid-1970s, he was waving the red flag about impeding Global Cooling, caused by vehicle emissions?

    Is there any reason why we should pay this man any attention? I’ve seen more consistency from Alex Jones.

  60. Hey, you can’t accuse me of misreading your first sentence just MINUTES after I complain bitterly in another thread about people doing horribly bad readings on other people’s texts.

    It just isn’t fair.

  61. I try and be fair, but sometimes it gets in the way of my fun.

  62. Fun was had by you; chagrin by me.

    It’s all good.

    When I want to have fun, I correct the bird and flower captions on Pinterest.

  63. Somebody with mad blog-fu skilz ought to look around and find that bit of Michael Creighton going on about the vanity of man not only thinking he can fix the weather climate, but that he created the problem in the first place.

    I think there’s a dramatic reading of it by Charlton Heston, which means not only is Creighton authoratative, but voice of God authoritative.

    So that’s like a threefer, man!

  64. Ernst,

    This one ?

  65. That’s the one.

    The best part about that? Charleton Heston call the Rush Limbaugh show so he could read that on the air. How awesome is that!?

  66. It’s amusing how idiots think throwing the word “care” into a statement automatically makes them noble and pure.

  67. I try and be fair…

    Why won’t you try to be fair?

  68. Because giving a shit how much of Florida disappears under the waves is totalitarian.

    I live in Orlando, and can’t wait until I have some beachfront property.

    Which will never, ever happen, given that I am 100 ft above MSL at present. But don’t let that stop you.

    Sea level is currently (and has been, in a remarkably steady way) rising at about an inch every eight years. Maybe I need to have myself flash-frozen for a few thousand years.

    We’ve never seen sea level rise before, right? I mean, unprecedented!

  69. newrouter says January 7, 2014 at 8:22 pm

    i’ll have fries with that mr. phd

    I’ll admit, I was thinking something along those lines in that thread.

  70. If Thievin Steven can avoid putting his eye out with the juice box straw, in another six months he may graduate to eating with a spork.

  71. Sea level is currently (and has been, in a remarkably steady way) rising at about an inch every eight years.

    I have always wondered at that purported measurement. Ignoring the utter inconsequence of the level, if anyone really believes that we can really measure “sea level” over the entire globe with the precision and accuracy of 3.175 mm/year I’ll sell them some of your ocean front propery, Slart.

    The unfortunate thing, aside from your property values, is that Miami and Tampa won’t be swamped as that would solve many of the state’s problems.

    I also am impressed that progs like the Energizer Bunny Of Stupid regularly slag Florida, but now leap to its defense as it is a pawn for their cause. That we can add rank hypocrisy to all their other faults is not surprising.

  72. I have always wondered at that purported measurement. Ignoring the utter inconsequence of the level, if anyone really believes that we can really measure “sea level” over the entire globe with the precision and accuracy of 3.175 mm/year I’ll sell them some of your ocean front propery – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048625

    You doubt precide measurement. Got it.

    I also am impressed that progs like the Energizer Bunny Of Stupid regularly slag Florida, but now leap to its defense as it is a pawn for their cause. That we can add rank hypocrisy to all their other faults is not surprising. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048625

    So I guess it would be fair to say that if there’s a part of the country where you disagree with many of the people ideologically, you actually want bad things to happen to that part of the country – like a cataclysmic earthquake for San Fran, for example. Anything else would be “rank hypocrisy”.

    We can add lack of critical thinking skills to your list of faults that already included a lack of critical thinking skills. What do you do for insurance, btw?

  73. You doubt precide measurement. Got it.

    No, you subcephalic coprophage, he doubts that the measurement offered (a slower rate than your own fingernails) is even possible, not that measurements can be precise in general. The Atlantic Ocean is spreading apart from 3-30 times faster than that. Hell, the moon is receding at ten times that rate.

    And wasn’t Obumbles supposed to reverse that rise, just like Canute did with the tide? Or was he, like you, full of shit?

  74. What do you do for insurance, btw?

    Still waiting for the “any of your fucking business” certification. Get back to us when you have that. And not until.

  75. That’s odd, steve. Most of the wishes for cataclysmic disaster directed at person with whom one disagrees seem to come from the Left.

    You folks really need to work on your anger issues.

    “Tolerance” is your watchword, after all.

  76. You doubt precide [sic] measurement. Got it.

    No, what is purported to be both precise and accurate is about the same degree of precision and accuracy as claiming to be able repeatedly to measure the length of an aircraft carrier to the 1/1000th of an inch using a yardstick marked only in feet.

    So I guess it would be fair to say that if there’s a part of the country where you disagree with many of the people ideologically, you actually want bad things to happen to that part of the country – like a cataclysmic earthquake for San Fran, for example. Anything else would be “rank hypocrisy”.

    I see, you don’t even know the meaning of hypocrisy, you see, to take a position such as yours to slag on one hand, and use the same object as a prop is hypocritical, because the positions are diametrically opposed. To dislike something and wish it ill are not opposed.

    Regardless, this is why you are the Energizer Bunny of Stupid, and, I might add, it appears I have hit a nerve.

    We can add lack of critical thinking skills to your list of faults that already included a lack of critical thinking skills.

    You might want to buy a mirror, Junior. Projection, it is not just for breakfast anymore.

    What do you do for insurance, btw?

    You tell me why you need to know, and I will give you another clue; your spilkes over not knowing is puzzling.

    BTW – how is that explanation of the death rate from malaria in Finland coming along ?

  77. You doubt precide measurement. Got it.

    This is obviously another area of subject matter that you would be best off refraining from commenting in.

    But in the spirit of making you a better person:

    1) “Precision”, not “precide”. “precide” isn’t even a word.
    2) There are no such precision measurements. There are only measurements of sea level, averaged over some period and then fit to a straight line whose slope has some amount of error to it. One inch every eight years is a round-figure way of describing the current rate of sea level rise, as far as it is known.
    3) Measurements of sea level have only been in any way precise since we’ve had satellites in orbit. Prior to that, all we had were tide gauges, which only measured sea level relative to the land.

  78. While steve is mulling over Eingang Ausfahrt’s comments, I would also ask when he last had his power turned off for nonpayment of bills.

    Because it’s a relevant question, as far as I am concerned, and it says something about him that he has not yet answered it.

  79. Slart,

    Careful, you don’t want to alienate him, I think he is to looking buy some of your oceanfront property down there.

  80. I find it telling that stevie, like most members of his cult, spends almost all of his time and effort attacking and ridiculing those who question the quality of his evidence, and very little effort explaining why his evidence should be taken seriously.

    One can spell out, quite clearly and using very small words, all the fundamental problems with “temperature proxies” and opaque climate models, the inner workings of which are not only hidden from independent reviewers, but so badly written and poorly documented as to be inexplicable by even their most ardent devotees. One can further document the groupthink and the enforced conformity in climate research circles, as well as the data manipulation and the outright lies at conferences and Congressional hearings. Even yet still more, one can show that resources spent trying to prevent the supposed calamity would be far more effective if they were spent on mitigation efforts instead.

    But do stevie and his ilk spend any time defending their hypothesis, their methods, or their proposed solutions? No, they simply chant “consensus!” and pretend that the sober skeptics who adhere to the scientific method are a bunch of denialists, whereas their cult with its slavish devotion to a self-serving Authority and a bunch of unreadable Scripture is the height of scientific sophistication.

    When the math is not on your side, your only tactic is to shout down the mathematicians. Bonus points if you can convince yourself and others that math isn’t important anyway.

  81. I know how radar works, and I know that there is absolutely NO way to accurately determine sea level using satellite radar, because of both wave action and subsurface currents.

    Waves cause unpredictable rise and fall, and there is no way to tell at what point is considered “average” for any given point, only what the range of such motion would be, and there is even less way to determine same over a large area, only an average.

    And the subsurface currents can cause rises and falls in sea level, which can only be measured based on the mathematical model of what sea level would be if the water were perfectly smooth (which is isn’t, even in utterly becalmed areas).

    That also doesn’t cover the error built into the system by the pulse width of the radar. Given that the beam propagates at speed-of-light (299,792,458 meters per second), even if you were to limit the pulse width to a ten-billionth of a second, the uncertainty would still be +/- 3cm, which is ten times the amount reported, and there is no way to know whether the beam was reflected from the top of the wave or the bottom, which adds to the uncertainty.

    So we have people claiming that the rise rate of the ocean is 3mm/yr, plus-or-minus ten times that amount. (To wit, the oceans could be receding by 2.5 cm/yr, and they still wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.)

    All of these concerns also apply to laser measurements, for exactly the same reasons…

  82. Squid, it’s a matter of belief with them. Evidence or lack there of? Irrelevant.

  83. Science is the process of crash testing ideas: a scientist does not coddle an idea, or design tests to make it work. The scientist rams the idea into a brick wall head-on at 60mph, and knowledge is gained by examining the pieces. If the theory is solid, the pieces are from the wall.

  84. Evidence or lack there of? Irrelevant.

    Indeed, as is also the presence of confounding factors in their binary world.

    One of my favorites is the rubbish about the Maldives going under because of “sea level rise” and ignoring that their observations might be compromised by failing to consider that completely paving over the coral island on which the capital city is built might have something of an effect on the coral, or the substrate on which the coral sits.

  85. Isn’t land itself always in motion, albeit slow for the most part? Might a “rise” in some sea level measurements be due to land sinking rather than water rising? What about sea bed movements?

  86. The new island off the coast of Japan would suggest as much, TaiChiWawa.

  87. Land under the Great Lakes is still rebounding from the last great ice age. Nor is it the only place where they’ve found that to be true.

  88. Maldives is subsiding. So, by the way, is the whole Chesapeake Bay area, which coincidentally has a large meteroid crater in it that is in an ongoing, slow state of collapse.

    Conveniently timed, we have this:

    New study using GRACE data shows global sea levels rising less than 7 inches per century

  89. Might a “rise” in some sea level measurements be due to land sinking rather than water rising? What about sea bed movements?

    Indeed. As has been noted earlier, the Atlantic is widening which means, as the mass of the Earth is finite, an ocean somewhere else has to get smaller, so sea level is never static, and hasn’t been since Pangea.

    Of course that brings up another interesting point for which I have no explanation other than their propensity for binary thought, and that is why, given that there is flux in nigh everything, progs think that there is an “right” temperature, sea level, population, etc.

  90. Might a “rise” in some sea level measurements be due to land sinking rather than water rising? What about sea bed movements?

    This is why tide gauge data is relatively meaningless, except for measuring relative tide heights over short periods of time. Or registering the extent of wave propagation from catastrophic events such as a Krakatoa explosion.

  91. progs think that there is an “right” temperature, sea level, population, etc.

    Because do not FUCK with our Utopia.

  92. Magical thought too

    carbon credits, for instance.

    Maybe if we tossed Miley Cyrus into a volcanoe?

  93. That only works with virgins.

  94. Maybe if we tossed Miley Cyrus into a volcanoe?

    We wouldn’t want to anger Pele.

  95. That only works with virgins.

    She’s such a skank -maybe she still is a virgin; no one will risk it.

    I say we toss her in, and see what happens.

  96. The reason the oceans are rising is obvious: We’re experiencing drought in CA, which means more water remains in the Pacific. All that extra water has to go somewhere, so, the Panama Canal is used to allow water from the Pacific to drain into the Gulf. As the water level in the Gulf rises, more water is pushed into the Atlantic.

    For all you people looking for a grant proposal: You’re welcome.

  97. an ocean somewhere else has to get smaller

    The Pacific is shrinking as the Pacific plate is driven under the Mariana plate, creating the deepest point in the oceans.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_Trench

  98. progs think that there is an “right” temperature, sea level, population, etc. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#sthash.JepdZsLo.dpuf

    Does that imply that conservatives are cool with 200 degrees and a population of zero – because who’s to say what’s right?

    given that there is flux in nigh everything, progs think that there is an “right” temperature, sea level, population, etc. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#sthash.JepdZsLo.dpuf

    We’re just against forcing the relocation of millions of people and shrinking fresh water supplies, due to our own actions, when there are (increasingly) viable alternatives. Why’s that so fucking hard for a smart man like you to understand?

  99. Why are you so angry steve?

  100. There is not a fresh water shortage. There is a shortage of cheap energy.

  101. Does that imply that conservatives are cool with 200 degrees and a population of zero – because who’s to say what’s right?

    How about Mother Gaia? Because those have been the “norm”, at one point or another, in the past….

  102. Does that imply that conservatives are cool with 200 degrees and a population of zero – because who’s to say what’s right?

    Ignoring reality, as usual.

    DV, the planet has been both much warmer, and much cooler, than it is today, and that has been within the last thousand years. Amazingly enough, the system returned to normal, just like it has over the billions of years before then.

    I’d also like to see at what point man managed to colonize Mars, seeing as how it is also warming in recent years. Since all warming MUST be due to man’s interference, be sure to include that explanation in your response.

    How’s that Finnish malaria response coming?

  103. Mommy Dearest Gaia belongs in a home.

  104. (increasingly) viable alternatives.

    See also “Luddites”.

  105. See also “Luddites”.

    Especially as applies to medicine and its practice. Progs whine about the costs of services provided and medication, yet fail to factor in the costs of R&D, training, advances in procedures and portability of same. My inbox is constantly inundated with paeans to Big Witchdoctor, anti-GMOs literature and straight up bad medicine.

    It’s astonishing.

  106. Does that imply that conservatives are cool with 200 degrees and a population of zero

    It keeps going, and going, and going.

    Where the hell did 200 degrees (BTW – is that F, F, or K ) come from ? Even the IPCC has revised their estimate downward to a whopping 1.3 C over a century, which is hardly catastrophic.

    We’re just against forcing the relocation of millions of people…

    Ignoring the fact that “progressives” of all stripes have been notorious for rounding up people (and killing them), what do have in mind that is going to “force relocation”, it sure isn’t sea level rise.

    Your next assignment, along with your essay on the Finns and malaria, is to calculate how much more than 1.3C is required for the Antarctic to even start melting, include in your calculations the sea level rise from the Arctic ice cap. For extra credit, explain why not only did the world not end, but flora and fauna flourished, when atmospheric CO2 was roughly eight time higher than now.

    Regardless of your religious devotion to the Church of AGW, the planet will warm and cool, regardless of what we do.

    You really do need to stop trying to argue from ignorance.

  107. Ferkakta HTML screw up 1.3 C over a century

  108. “1) “Precision”, not “precide”. “precide” isn’t even a word. ”

    Precide is a Swiss company that makes high-end audio equipment. It think it is a conjugation of the Italian word ‘Precider’. You could also say it is the practice of using time travel to precognition to prevent someone you find undesirable from ever being born or possibly conceived. That would be a cool sci-fi way to handle it.

    What hmnisteve doesn’t understand (yet again) is the so-called STeM (science, technology, math) way of looking at things and how it differs from branding and dissemination of approved dogmas. Someone did some measurements and produced a number and steve wants to believe it so he cries “SCIENCE!(m)” any time it is challenged. Nobody ever got fired for buying SCIENCE!(tm)… except scientists and engineers and their managers who didn’t do their due diligence and just accepted dogma as fact.

    This is a basic 1st class of chemistry class example about the value of measurements and the role of using significant digits role in order to avoid reporting implausible precision which could seriously effect over all accuracy of results based on falsely precise figures.

    http://college.cengage.com/chemistry/discipline/thinkwell/transcripts/2818.pdf

  109. Where the hell did 200 degrees (BTW – is that F, F, or K ) come from ?

    It’s an asspull like most of his “data”.

  110. seriously effect over -> seriously affect :)

  111. “I say we toss her in, and see what happens.”

    Probably a tasteless music video and some CD sales. Either that or the first time in history a volcano sues mankind because its civil rights were violated.

  112. a whopping 1.3 C over a century,

    Less than 2.5F? That’s not even within the least perceptible difference of human experience, and indistinguishable without precision instruments. Given that they want to ruin the world’s economy to achieve it (even assuming that their solution would actually do so), I’d say it’s too high a price to pay for what turns out to be the difference between 10 am and 11 am on any given spring day.

    But if DV wants to go live in a cave, more power to him. If he wants to make the rest of us do so just so he can feel better about how badly his parents mistreated him, fuck him sideways.

  113. Does that imply that conservatives are cool with 200 degrees and a population of zero – because who’s to say what’s right?

    No, it does not. Until this point, you’ve been arguing about temperature changes measured in single digits, and population disruptions measured in millions. When questioned about your assumptions and assertions, you change the subject and try to distract your audience with absurd discussions of Venusian environments and wholesale extinction. Why? Because you have no answer to the questions that have been posed to you.

    Honestly, stevie — what would be so bad about a warmer Earth? Vast areas in North America and Asia would become decent agricultural land. Would vineyards in Labrador or Greenland be such a terrible thing? Measured against the need for a hundred million coastal dwellers to adapt — over the course of a century — to seas a meter or two higher than they are now, which way would the scales balance?

    But you don’t want to have that discussion, because you’re terrified that it might cause people to re-think their blind devotion to your Angry Climate Gods. So you’ll pretend that it’s not worth having, and distract by pretending that the only alternative is Hell On Earth And We’re All Going To Diiiiiiieeeeee!!1!!eleventy!!!

    Please bear this in mind: your feeble attempts at argument do not, and will not, convince anyone about the rightness of your cause. Just the opposite, in fact — as you falter and sputter and distract and handwave, more and more people see you for what you are, and walk away from your failed religion. So by all means — keep up the good work!

  114. Mmm! Squid(TM) brand tar DOES taste the best! It’s way better than that cheap stuff they serve over at the Ace-hole.

  115. I’d also like to see at what point man managed to colonize Mars, seeing as how it is also warming in recent years. Since all warming MUST be due to man’s interference, be sure to include that explanation in your response.

    Thats easy. All that excess heat getting forced out of our homes and offices and shopping malls by air conditioning? Well, it’s got to go somewhere, right? So, hot air rises into the atmosphere and then it escapes to outerspace. Now because of electromechanical vulcanism, Mars is a natural heat sink, so all that excess heat is drawn there.

    Haven’t any of yuse heard of the solar wind?

    Duh. You tinka yousa so smartie, yousa branes so big.

    /Pubik Scewel lerner

  116. “Haven’t any of yuse heard of the solar wind?”

    And seeing this, occams razor began cutting the rest out because it was peripheral to the ‘splaination.

  117. What’s really fun is to run the numbers and see how little “warming” actually gets reduced from all these Chinese mercury-bombs we’re being forced to buy instead of light bulbs.

    Even using the warmers’ numbers, it’s a lot of nothing.

  118. I would have thought Occam’s razor would have slit Occam’s wrists over that exercise in erudition.

  119. Speaking of Chinese mercury bombs, what the hell are the easy-bake oven people going to do for a heat source without the little polar bear killer bulbs?

  120. I’m curious as to the reasoning behind all of us living here in the Great Satan of the USA are the only country having to comply with all this AGW nonsense. Has anyone taken a gander at the air quality in China lately? India? Others?

    It sounds like another risky scheme to me.

  121. Curses. Must type faster.

  122. I think they use an actual heating element.

    I seem to recall hearing the first plan was to eliminate the heat entirely, and just use chemistry to solidify/”cook” the goodies, but that may have been an Internet hoax.

  123. The reasoning? That’s easy: legions and legions of lobbyists spreading GE and Phillips walking-around money though the corridors of power.

  124. Mexico wants the manufacturing business back. China might be in a bad way if Mexico keeps their heads and leaves PRI nonsense in the past.

    Also speaking of Mexico and air quality, is Mexico City still invisible from Puebla due to all the smog and haze? I haven’t been there since 1988, a few years after the earthquake and during the money crash. ( I bought a bunch of stuff on that trip that cost 150,000 pesos. That was about $117 bucks total then. I felt like Bill Gates.)

  125. It was a rhetorical question, of course.

    We are hoarding incandescent bulbs here at the ranch.

  126. Well it isn’t *just* the USA. The Euro-weenies and many of their former colonies seem to wear their chains willingly. Must be the feudalism in their blood.

  127. An incandescent bulb pretty much IS a heating element and a pretty good resistor to boot. It just happens to make light too. The byproduct is the chief source value. It’s sort of like using Pepsi as a mild adhesive.

    And now people with homes from the 80’s find their homes drafty because they were designed to have incandescent bulbs as part of their heat profile. Oh well, some insulation, double paned windows, crack filling, and a new AC/Heater will fix things. Sort of.

    We didn’t ban incandescent bulbs though. We banned choice and manufacturing freedom for the sake of Gaia’s homostasis or death scam. Too bad they didn’t test the compact flourecents in FIXTURES to see how the heat build up would shorten their lives. Or check them for high levels of UV for an in house consumer bulb at or around eye level. And yea the mercury is a bummer.

    Now I wonder what they didn’t tell us about LED bulbs.

  128. Maybe environmental bullshit shackles are our just punishment for driving DDT and Freon out of the world to avoid ginned up consequences.

  129. We banned choice and manufacturing freedom because an incandescent bulb is a commodity, and the serious coin isn’t to be found commodities, it’s to be found in regulatory capture/cronyism.

    Because competitive free enterprise is a bitch, don’chya know?

  130. DDT is our friend, but not the malaria carrying mosquito’s.

  131. mosquitos have a better poster egg in the poor bald eagle than ddt. Rachel Carson saw to that.

    Watch for theiven to denounce my hatred of baby eagles as downright unpatriotic!

  132. Rachel Carson was an English teacher with a fanciful imagination, much like Sinclair Lewis who never set foot in a slaughterhouse before, during or after the time he wrote “The Jungle”.

    Yet both are widely regarded as well-researched Science!™

  133. DDT is our friend, but not the malaria carrying mosquito’s.

    Indeed. One of my favorite lines of BS is that “Global Warming” is going to make malaria appear in the US.

    What is conveniently forgotten is that in North America, malaria was prevalent clear up to Halifax, NS until the 1950s. DDT and draining of swamps broke Koch’s Triad by eliminating the vector.

    If malaria comes back, it will not be because of “warming” but aliens (illegal and otherwise) from endemic areas bringing the agent back, and no DDT and swamps becoming “wetlands” (and thus protected environments for the vector) allowing a resurgence of the vector.

  134. Where the hell did 200 degrees (BTW – is that F, F, or K ) come from ? – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048841

    Read the statement it was in response to. Here, I’ve included it for you, “progs think that there is an “right” temperature, sea level, population, etc. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048841

    Ignoring the fact that “progressives” of all stripes have been notorious for rounding up people (and killing them)

    Stalin and Hitler have more in common with your team than mine.

    Regardless of your religious devotion to the Church of AGW, the planet will warm and cool, regardless of what we do. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048841

    And because of what we do. You get that, right?

    Your next assignment, along with your essay on the Finns and malaria, is to calculate how much more than 1.3C is required for the Antarctic to even start melting – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048841

    Nice try. First, the antarctic isn’t the only ice in the world. There’s the arctic and greenland, where the extent has been in decline. You might also want to notice these things called glaciers and what the trend has been with them. And measurements of the antarctic show significant mass loss.

    You can look this shit up, you know.

    Honestly, stevie — what would be so bad about a warmer Earth? Vast areas in North America and Asia would become decent agricultural land. Would vineyards in Labrador or Greenland be such a terrible thing? Measured against the need for a hundred million coastal dwellers to adapt — over the course of a century — to seas a meter or two higher than they are now, which way would the scales balance? – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048841

    Actually, that’s a great conversation to have. But it’s hard to have it when people (1) disbelieve that we’re living in a warming trend, and (2) we’re the most likely cause of it.

    Relocation and fresh water are two biggies on the minus side, but I agree that it’s completely worth having the discussion about the net effect.

  135. if the earth gets too warm we’ll cool it off using giant robots or what have you

    obama don’t have to act like such a little bitch

  136. Read the statement it was in response to.

    So it was one of those oh-so-popular rectal extraction data points, then, and we can just point at you and laugh.

    And because of what we do. You get that, right?

    Not proven. Correlation does not equal causation, moron. You do get that the world was both much warmer and much cooler, long before civilization came along, and within the last thousand years (i.e., within recorded history), right?

    Not to mention the repeated massaging of the data to force the curve. That’s what scientists call “a lie”.

    There’s the arctic and greenland, where the extent has been in decline.

    You DO know that there were grape vineyards in Greenland not so many centuries ago?

    You can look this shit up, ya know.

    But it’s hard to have it when people (1) disbelieve that we’re living in a warming trend, and (2) we’re the most likely cause of it. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048868

    No one is questioning 1, only whether 2 is as bad as the fear-mongers have been claiming. Funny thing, the same crowd was predicting a new ice age just a few decades back, with exactly the same “EVERYONE IS GONNA DIE” claims. Ask your parents (if you can still find them) or someone who is old enough to remember.

    Or look it up yourself. If you dare.

  137. What is conveniently forgotten is that in North America, malaria was prevalent clear up to Halifax, NS until the 1950s. DDT and draining of swamps broke Koch’s Triad by eliminating the vector.

    Yes indeed. Today, we are seeing West Nile Virus up the Atlantic Coast and in low lying areas here in Flyoverlandia. Draining off sswampland would draw down the mosquitos as well as allowing for trapping and killing non-native species of snakes as well as pesky alligators who float around eating pets and small kids.

    Monies for this project could be recouped from sales of snakeskin boots, alligator shoes and the like.

  138. Global Warming: serious concern that must be addressed immediately, or scam to extract money via taxes through scaring people?

    I’m going with option B.

  139. “Stalin and Hitler have more in common with your team than mine.”

    They do if you’re a liar and idiot, which you are.

  140. “Actually, that’s a great conversation to have. But it’s hard to have it when people (1) disbelieve that we’re living in a warming trend, and (2) we’re the most likely cause of it. ”

    No it isn’t. You aren’t interested in having it at all. You’re just pushing hockey sticks, feqar, scientific illiteracy and fear as usual.

  141. heh! I wonder what feqar is. I bet it’s very precide whatever it is.

  142. Does that imply that conservatives are cool with 200 degrees and a population of zero – because who’s to say what’s right? – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comments

    You know, I was on the ban himynameisdogvomit side, but now I believe he shouldn’t be. Really…That was ballon fence grade stupidity right there, so I know I’m no longer the dumbest person on this site. Thank yo dog Vomit

    Can I still be the typo king?

  143. Feqar looks like it might be an arabic name?

  144. Stalin and Hitler have more in common with your team than mine.

    That’s an outrageous lie, and you’re a base liar.

    My team is for freedom, independence, self-reliance, personal responsibility, and a live-and-let-live ethos in which we may argue and disapprove of each other’s lifestyle decisions, but we can still be good neighbors. Your team is for State control of medicine, energy, agriculture, education, transportation, commerce, and soon will be giving us diet and exercise commands, lest we lose our “free” health insurance. Your team has lurched so far to the left over the past 50 years that if JFK ran for office today, you’d pillory him as a hopeless neocon.

    Yours is the party of central planning, stifling bureaucracy, public indoctrination centers, anonymous tip lines to Internal Security, and the joblessness, misery, and famine which inevitably proceeds from any and every instance where people allow themselves to be ruled by those who deem themselves enlightened technocratic experts.

    Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kim, Castro, Chavez — these are all icons of the centralized power you and your side crave. For us, they are stark warnings of what happens when we allow the State to grow outside its rightful bounds, and a big reason why so many of us cling bitterly to our guns.

    This is the absolute truth, and is documented so widely and so well that there is no excuse for your trying to pretend otherwise. You will retract your vile insult, or I’ll see to it that you spend the next six months changing names and IP addresses every time you decide to waste more of our time.

  145. or an arabic hat maybe?

  146. So leftism is essentially believing a lot of really really dumb things about life, humanity, and the world, changing those things when deemed necessary by a designated expert or qualified loyal disseminator, and then sneering at everyone else because they aren’t dumb enough to to believe all the comforting, outrageous, or exciting, but still really dumb shit.

  147. Problem: Argument seems to be shit, and no one is buying it.

    Solution: Change the word ‘government’ to ‘humanity’ and then make some random crack about game theory or the Laffer curve.

  148. Nice squid, but how do you really feel?

    Stevie snookums? do what the the the nice man says and bend over.

  149. Blitz, I submit that THIS be the definitive ‘feqar as a hat’ reference. Isn’t it magical? Everyone will want one. Except for the hipsters.

    http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mblseFr5DZZ8FEQarV1UnhA.jpg

    Or maybe that’s just a covered cookie dish and not a hat at all. But I think conceptually there’s something there that should be a hat.

  150. Just think! A feqar could be a transparent hat that is part ornately baroque picklehaube, part 1930’s jughead snipped-fedora crown cap, and part chandelier.

    Maybe it could use a chin strap?

    It would be like a pair of crocs for your head!

  151. Read the statement it was in response to.

    I did, and thank for confirming it is an arbitrary number you made up that has no relevance to anything.

    Stalin and Hitler have more in common with your team than mine.

    I see, you are one of those National Socialists were not socialist types. Stalin ? You have really lost the bubble, Hot Rod.

    And because of what we do. You get that, right?

    No, because of natural fluctuations and that big yellow thing in the sky. You want to explain how the measley 250 milion or so people of the Earth caused Medieval temperatures to be higher than now ?

    And measurements of the antarctic show significant mass loss.

    Not really, Arctic, Antarctic.

    You can look this shit up, you know.

    OK, I was kidding, we know you are far too lazy to think for yourself, (not that you would understand any of the sciency stuff), and far too lazy not to begin sentence with conjunctions.

  152. Blitz,

    I’ll bite what the hell is a “balloon fence” ??

  153. Your team is for State control of medicine, energy, agriculture, education, transportation, commerce, and soon will be giving us diet and exercise commands, lest we lose our “free” health insurance. Your team has lurched so far to the left over the past 50 years that if JFK ran for office today, you’d pillory him as a hopeless neocon. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048897

    And your team would primary the shit out of Dear Lord Reagan.

    My team is about democracy and egalitarianism. My team believes that we (the people) make the rules for us (the people). That doesn’t sound a lot like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kim, Castro, Chavez. Your team is the team of oppression (gays, women, minorities, etc) So, you know, suck it.

  154. My team is about democracy and egalitarianism.

    Except when it isn’t, and the elites need to make decisions for everyone. Which, that has nothing to do with “democracy” or “egalitarianism”.

    That doesn’t sound a lot like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kim, Castro, Chavez.

    Only to those who will not see… “None so blind”, and all. Hitler put it best: “Ein Volk, Ein Rich, Ein Fuhrer”. Or are you suddenly reversing your defenses for ObamaCare (where people don’t get to make the decision on their own)?

    Oh, right…

  155. what the hell is a “balloon fence” ??

    http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=7607

  156. “My team is about democracy and egalitarianism. My team believes that we (the people) make the rules for us (the people). That doesn’t sound a lot like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kim, Castro, Chavez. Your team is the team of oppression (gays, women, minorities, etc) So, you know, suck it. ”

    Stalin, Mao, Kim, Chavez were all for democracy and egalitarianism and the people. Just ask them you stupid naive asshole. So was Pol pot! Your team is oppressing lots of law abiding people and wants more laws and legal harassment to oppress them even more, calling it social advancement and social justice. Your team mutates language to avoid being subject to criticism and keeping everything in a meaningless haze where feelings are king. Your team steals property, gives it to their supporters, You’re nothing but self righteous fucking liars doing more or less exactly what your leftist forbears did only slower. And luckily your huge promises, strange shifting definitions, outright slander, imagination fueled doomsday scenarios, permanent crisis governing, and overall shitty results are finally costing you.

  157. My team is about democracy and egalitarianism. My team believes that we (the people) make the rules for us (the people). That doesn’t sound a lot like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kim, Castro, Chavez. Your team is the team of oppression (gays, women, minorities, etc) So, you know, suck it.

    Ladies and gentlemen, I’d like to introduce you to one who calls himself, “Steve.”

    As you can see from the statement, “Steve” is a graduate of Evergreen University with a major in Fingerpainting and a minor in Drum Circles. He is upset that he cannot get a job other than itinerant barista and flutophone player, though his main goal in life is to be the mic check guy at an Occupy rally.

  158. Dumbest steve ever. EVER.

  159. Drum,

    Ref: Balloon Fence.

    Holy crap, that guy almost makes Steve look like a scholar.

  160. Well, the balloon fence guy was clearly not big on application.

  161. I see, you are one of those National Socialists were not socialist types. Stalin ? You have really lost the bubble, Hot Rod. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048920

    You call us socialists. But we’re not, actually, socialists. It would be like me labeling you a shit eater and then extrapolating from that point that you’d be a bad kisser.

    And measurements of the antarctic show significant mass loss. Not really, Arctic, Antarctic. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048920

    http://www.skepticblog.org/2013/04/17/the-hockey-stick-slaps-back/
    And educate yourself and read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_ice_sheet#Sea_ice_and_land_ice

    Now, lets talk about the stat that actually matters, global ice mass, shall we?

    http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/grace20120208.html#.Us3oFGRDvhc

    Do you doubt there’s been a loss in global ice mass? Take your time.

  162. I would bet on a lack of critical thinking skills.

    The irony screams.

    My team is about democracy and egalitarianism.

    Again with the irony.

    My team believes that we (the people) make the rules for us (the people). That doesn’t sound a lot like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kim, Castro, Chavez.

    Your team like to force people to do what you want. That’s a whole lot like the abovementioned.

    Your team is the team of oppression (gays, women, minorities, etc)

    Even more irony,

    So, you know, suck it. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?
    p=52394#comments

    You first, precious.

    Don’t you have any friends who are, you know, more intellectually serious. Send em over, because you’re too much of a light weight.

    Damn! I miss Christopher Hitchens.
    At least he was honest.

  163. {aleo, want’ that something one of those Hindu Gods wore?

  164. Except when it isn’t, and the elites need to make decisions for everyone. Which, that has nothing to do with “democracy” or “egalitarianism”. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048933

    The people writing the laws can be voted out, should the people decide that they’re not being represented. Which brings us back to what I’ve been saying all along. If you want to run the show, win elections, and don’t expect to get your way by being 1/4 of the Republican party in 1/3 of government.

    If people wanted the Tea Party, they’d be a ruling majority, no?

  165. Eingang, it’s an inside joke, welcome!!

  166. My team is about democracy and egalitarianism……

    51 people deciding to make the other 49 live in equality.

  167. “You call us socialists. But we’re not, actually, socialists. It would be like me labeling you a shit eater and then extrapolating from that point that you’d be a bad kisser. ”

    No it would merely be recognizing an accelerated stage of fabian socialism trying to pass itself off as broadly democratic while sending the IRS out to attack political enemies.

    “And educate yourself and read this:”

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/09/10/icesat-data-shows-mass-gains-of-the-antarctic-ice-sheet-exceed-losses/

    http://notrickszone.com/2013/10/17/climatology-sees-one-of-the-greatest-scientific-reversals-of-all-time-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-hockey-stick-charts/

  168. Stevie snookums? Go make Squid a sammie, kk?

  169. “The people writing the laws can be voted out, should the people decide that they’re not being represented. Which brings us back to what I’ve been saying all along. If you want to run the show, win elections, and don’t expect to get your way by being 1/4 of the Republican party in 1/3 of government. ”

    Or just let people look into your stimulus that didn’t stimulate, your five years of high unemployment, your awful Obamacare rollout etc. That gets them to vote against your team too. Then your team whines about obstructionism.

  170. Let people see you complain about 9 trillion in debt and give is 17 trillion while mooing that the deficit is cut in half when in fact it tripled.

    http://cfif.org/v/index.php/commentary/43-taxes-and-economy/1991-obama-tripled-the-deficit-now-brags-he-cut-it-in-half

  171. The people writing the laws can be voted out, should the people decide that they’re not being represented.

    You think that’ll do it, huh? How long have you been in this country, Comrade?

  172. Shall we get into the number of ways Obama has violated both the Constitution and his oath of office?

  173. Have we the time?

  174. Binders full of women! A garage in his elevator! 47% !

  175. EBOS,

    Your first link – sea ice. Seriously ? Do you have any clue what happens when floating ice melts, not that it is.

    Your second link – Wikipedia. Seriously ? A serious chart. Mirabile dictu, natural fluctuations.

    Now, lets talk about the stat that actually matters, global ice mass, shall we?

    OK, as the ICESAT data shows gains in Antarctic ice, and we know the Arctic has increased, so any putative losses in Greenland (or elsewhere) are moot.

    Regardless, what is the right amount of ice ? You do know that at one time North America was covered in ice as far south to a line roughly traced by the Missouri and Ohio rivers. You do know that Greenland was named Greenland as it actually used to be green, as in arable ? How come the world didn’t end then ?

    You call us socialists. But we’re not, actually, socialists.

    Right you are, more like Marxists.

    It would be like me labeling you a shit eater and then extrapolating from that point that you’d be a bad kisser.

    Thanks, now that you have to resort to scatologic comments, I’ll take that as an admission you have nothing.

  176. People are seriously claiming that it’s because of all the global warming that record cold has covered almost all of North America.

    I remember back when I first heard that theory put forth:

    “… It rained all night the day I left, the weather it was dry
    The sun so hot I froze to death, Susanna, don’t you cry….”

    Little did we know that there were kids out there so stupid that they would accept that as fact.

  177. Regardless, what is the right amount of ice ?

    One where large swaths of population have drinkable water in the summer, and millions don’t need to relocate from coastal communities.

  178. One where large swaths of population have drinkable water in the summer, and millions don’t need to relocate from coastal communities.

    Shorter DV: “I have no idea, but whatever we have now is good enough, so that’s where we have to stay.”

    Good thing the temperature has NEVER EVER fluctuated in the past, because we now have to stop all technology so we won’t gain those 2 degrees over the next century.

    Considering that the 10 most-polluted cities are all elsewhere (8 of them in Asia, one in Africa), shouldn’t the rest of the world clean their mess up first before we have to return to pre-Industrial Revolution technology? Or is consistency not a part of your worldview?

  179. You call us socialists. But we’re not, actually, socialists. It would be like me labeling you a shit eater and then extrapolating from that point that you’d be a bad kisser. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comments

    This one…I don’t get. I mean I’m the least of lights here, and I even really tried to be dumber, but what the hell does this mean? I went back to all the earlier posts trying to put it into context, but there is none…Really Stevie, you’ve come down to my level. Never good.

    OH!! Eingang, you should look up the Mile high dirt berm and ” In the time of Romans” for hillarity… I’d also recommend well. pretty much anything on the top left sidebar. Jeff is a master.

  180. “How I suffered from the heat
    and the chilblains on my feet!”

  181. Drum? Classic snark!! Kudos sir.

    Hellomynameismudhere? Please do explain how your side proposes to fix the impending doom? and please type slowly. as I’m a slack jawed tea partier, KK?

  182. The funniest thing about people claiming that melting ice will cause the rise of the oceans is that they forget that ice actually loses volume as it melts (maximum density is at 4C/39F). (ProTip: That’s why ice floats in the first place.)

  183. One where large swaths of population have drinkable water in the summer, and millions don’t need to relocate from coastal communities.

    Great, so as sea level is not rising to any appreciable extent, and there is no evidence that there will be any shortage of potable water – BTW, the Israelis can do amazing things with de-salinization, but that would lower sea levels – you have nothing to get your frilly undies in a twist about is there ?

    You are an ill-educated simpleton, Steve, with no concept of what the world is like, how big it is, and how insignificant we are. Did you know that you could, for instance, fit the entire population of the world into Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Louisiana with a population density the same as Paris ?

    Of course you didn’t, but that is how big the world is, and how insignificant people are

  184. Blitz, they only want to “fix” things in that it makes it harder for you to run your business and heat your home. If they actually gave a damn about the Environment™ they’d get out of the way of all the farmers who have degrees in agri-business and let them run their farms in an efficient and businesslike manner.

    As for potable water, it seems that all the flaming rivers and the like from the 70s, were back East. In the blue states.

  185. Drum, they have apparently never left a pitcher of ice water out on the counter, either. Hint: it doesn’t overflow.

  186. Drum, Leigh,

    They don’t have ice in the Occupy ghettos, so how can they observe, you heartless bassards.

    I wonder,, though, if too much ice melts from Greenland, and does it asymmetrically, will it tip over ?

  187. No, silly. That’s Guam!

  188. Did you know that you could, for instance, fit the entire population of the world into Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Louisiana with a population density the same as Paris ?

    And you could bury the whole population of the planet in a side arroyo of the Grand Canyon (in a cube roughly half a mile on a side).

  189. Leigh, I found a way out of that. I officially retired and now NEVER work out of my… no no…somebody elses legally owned property…also? all of my tools and various machines were lost in a tragic barn fire/boating accident/plane crash while I was desperatley searching for my lost weapons from the tressle….

    Oh well, Galt never had it so good…

  190. Honestly, Eingang. If just one of these know-it-all trolls who show up to school us rubes knew anything about science (not computer science, slappy. That’s engineering.), it would help these discussion tremendously.

    Don’t force us to talk about organ transplant, cancer treatment protocols and lab safety just to make you feel stupid, steve.

  191. Let’s not forget that the entire Arctic polar cap is floating…

  192. Galt never had it so good…

    Atta boy, Blitz. Going Galt feels good, doesn’t it?

    When’s the new grandbaby due? When are you getting hitched, too?

  193. “The funniest thing about people claiming that melting ice will cause the rise of the oceans is that they forget that ice actually loses volume as it melts ”

    They finally figured that out in the 80’s after Wtaerworld bombed, and now only caw about the melting of inland ice.

  194. Around the same day Leigh!!! Mid February, but she keeps trying to change stuff and I just go mmm hmmm…

    Thank you for asking though, I thought nobody paid attention to my rabts

  195. And if DV was so concerned about fresh water, then he wouldn’t be bitching about Antarctica melting, since 70% of the planet’s fresh water is down there in solid form. More global warming, more fresh water. QED.

  196. rants…see?

    I demand to be a charachter in Jeffs Fantasy world….The TYPO KING!!

  197. “One where large swaths of population have drinkable water in the summer, and millions don’t need to relocate from coastal communities. ”

    And what is that? And where are the millions relocating from coastal communities? Large swaths? Lol.

  198. Drum, the only thing that hellomynameisbeelzebub is interested in is a friggin’ paycheck. Trolls like him are a dime a dozen on different PACS…and are to be denigrated,maocked and sometimes even quoted!! See” Ballon Fence”

  199. Well Paleo? Not millions, but thosands ARE going from NYC to Florida…Does that have any meaning vis a vi AGW?

  200. Blitz,

    Berm, Phoenician in the Times of Romans, balloon fence – I missed some good times, I see.

  201. Yeah….but the best are still there. also? That fucking dillo never did dance

  202. Escaping rising coastal tides by going to an even more coastal area? Do they like nearby hungry abyssal depths or something?

  203. steve warned them all! So sad! Also game theory!

  204. Escaping rising coastal tides by going to an even more coastal area?

    Leave him alone, he’s on a roll.

  205. I remain unimpressed with Dog Vomit and the rest of the AGW crowd.

    Because…SCIENCE!

  206. TOO funny Paleo!!

  207. My favorite spoof commenter name from that era was, “Phone technician in a time of roaming.”

  208. They blinded them with silence…Damn, I can’t find the vid…Alan Parsons project

  209. Shit…SCIENCE

  210. I mean, I thank God every day we exist in one of those tall spikes. I’m not really a fan of 20 feet of ice in my front yard here in central California like there has been for the majority of history…

  211. Too many good ones Cranky, but yeah, that was a good one

  212. Leigh,

    If just one of these know-it-all trolls who show up to school us rubes knew anything about science (not computer science, slappy. That’s engineering.), it would help these discussion tremendously.

    The upside, I guess, is that none of these buffoons are going to be designing bridges or airplanes, making pharmaceuticals, operating nuclear plants, or performing neurosurgical procedures, so the biggest threat they pose is spitting in our coffee or burgers. Well, that and being exposed to more pseudo-academic arglebargle.

  213. They blinded them with {science}…Damn, I can’t find the vid…Alan Parsons project

    “Blinded me with science” isn’t Alan Parsons, it was Thomas Dolby

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FIMvSp01C8

  214. Blitz,

    Alan Parsons

  215. I mean, I thank God every day we exist in one of those tall spikes.

    Seeing that chart, I would question where they set the “anomaly” level.

  216. Eingang, the downside is that those buffoons will be regulators. They will ensure that everything goes to hell in a handbasket due to their psuedo-academic arglebargle…

    I honestly don’t know what to do about this except on a personal level ( children, friends of children on facebook ) but I do kow what to do when it all goes wrong.

  217. The latest AGW arguments seem designed to gimbal lock a human brain with confusion, strange assertions, and contradictions. They flash you a picture of old TV “no signal” snow or a rorschach blot and say “see? See?! I told you!” They do this no matter the whether, when data is shown to be flawed, or when their predictions fail to come true.

    And really sad thing is that we fund it and ponder ways of punishing people who don’t kowtow to it.

  218. Eingang, the downside is that they are designing public art and trying to push those tiny homes that are the size of gardening sheds on us as viable alternatives to, well, spacious Colonials.

    No sale.

  219. OH!!! Thank you Drum and Eingang!! Yeah, I was mostly wasted in the 80’s

  220. “Seeing that chart, I would question where they set the “anomaly” level”

    Drumwaster, I pulled that chart from here, enjoy.

  221. Eingang, the downside is that they are designing public art…

    Yikes. Good point.

  222. The sun so hot I froze to death
    Susanna don’t you cry.

  223. LBascom – nice data dump !

  224. Wait a minute wait a minute…HUH? Ok, so this whole Polar vortex thingy is because aof AGW? So who the HELL ( Looking at YOU McGehee ) set up a thousand coal burning power plants at the North Pole?…Santa?

    I do remember the 70’s The teacher put up all those Time and Newsweek articles on the wall, but strangely? they were all about a new Ice age. Scared us to death, but I was only 8, so..

    Anywhoo, could give a shit less. weather is weather, shit happens, babies poop. Life goes on and it sucks more than yesterday until it gets better tomorrow.

    Now, hellomynameisfurball may not agree with that, but whatevs, we probably couldn’t agree on the day of the week.

    /rant

  225. 80’s was nuclear winter and acid rain warning time.

  226. So who the HELL ( Looking at YOU McGehee ) set up a thousand coal burning power plants at the North Pole?…Santa?

    No, silly, Santa isn’t real…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_of_Solitude

  227. Besides, Santa doesn’t burn coal. He gives it away.

  228. Does that imply that conservatives are cool with 200 degrees and a population of zero – because who’s to say what’s right?

    No, it does not. And I eagerly await your next idiotic question.

    Idiot.

    We’re just against forcing the relocation of millions of people and shrinking fresh water supplies, due to our own actions, when there are (increasingly) viable alternatives. Why’s that so fucking hard for a smart man like you to understand?

    Here’s what’s so fucking hard to understand: sea level rise is occurring so slowly that people won’t HAVE to be relocated, because they’ll be dead before their house can succomb to the waves. And according to progressive thought, what’s your’s just isn’t yours anymore when you die, so it’s no loss at all to your family.

    Idiot. Jesus, try firing up a few brain cells once in a while.

    Stalin and Hitler have more in common with your team than mine.

    Stalin and Hitler didn’t really have all that much in common with each other, dimwit. But we could find many, many things that Stalin has in common with modern-day Democrats. Stalin and Hitler did have statism in common, which…guess who has that going on these days?

    And because of what we do. You get that, right?

    It would help if, before lecturing others on topics you know nothing about, you’d come to some even superficial familiarity with said topic first. But you know nothing about this. Nothing at all, other than what Rachel Maddow or some other mouthpiece has masticated and regurgitated into your eager, hungry maw.

    My team is about democracy and egalitarianism.

    Equality, except for people that you don’t like. Bitter clingers to guns and religion, and suchlike. If only the government had more power to sweep those people aside and make way for the egalitarian future.

    My team believes that we (the people) make the rules for us (the people).

    We (the people) being my team. Those people over there; they can go to hell.

    That doesn’t sound a lot like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kim, Castro, Chavez.

    Not at all. Hitler made the trains run on time, and made things all hunky-dory for his team.

    Your team is the team of oppression (gays, women, minorities, etc) So, you know, suck it.

    You still don’t get it, steve. You register nothing as information. Most people here, see, don’t really sign up to the whole team-sports notion. I mean: sometimes, for kicks, but not as a serious, full-time occupation the way you do. No one, here, really has anything at all against gays, women, or minorities (except happyfeet, who has a nasty streak of misogyny that we’re attempting to beat out of him). We’re just not really all that gung-ho on advancing said groups a whole heap of privilege, or groveling in apology for shit foisted on them by Democrats a good while back.

    So, suck it your ownself. NTTAWWT.

  229. >Besides, baracky Santa doesn’t burn coal. He gives it away.<

  230. >Stalin and Hitler didn’t really have all that much in common with each other<

    use the power of the "state" to crush opposition – check

  231. Do you doubt there’s been a loss in global ice mass?

    Of course not. There’s been a loss in global ice mass since the Holocene began. Or didn’t you know that?

  232. Stalin and Hitler did have statism in common, which…guess who has that going on these days?

    He repeated, for emphasis.

  233. Or didn’t you know that?

    steve is a guy who, to all apearances, came into being just a month or two ago and is struggling to absorb human knowledge available to most primary school students.

  234. >He repeated, for emphasis.<

    never mind says: Emily Litella

  235. My team is about democracy and egalitarianism……
    51 people deciding to make the other 49 live in equality the exact same way that the 51 live

    For teh clariteh.

  236. >Do you doubt there’s been a loss in global ice mass? <

    yes because of you kooks playing as "scientists"

  237. that could also be “polar bear news”

  238. Personally, I find steve’s team to be a bunch of bullies.

    I believe I’ll report them to Human Resources so they can undergo some mandatory re-grooving sessions.

  239. that could also be “polar bear news”

    I thought they were extinct from all the global warming and sitting on icebergs.

  240. I just noticed he’s back to issteve instead of wassteve.

    And I’m beginning to see leigh’s point about the (half)smart-ass steve vs. the whiney hysterical finoccio steve.

    So? Two trolls, or one troll whose only brief is “defending” Obamacare doing the best he can on the off-topics?

  241. …undergo some mandatory re-grooving sessions.

    Steve’s team are all graduates of Commie Martyr’s High and never need re-grooving.

  242. There are two, Ernst. One is brighter, more polite and actually can be pleasant.

    Then there is this one.

  243. This one seems kind of angry. I think he’s got issues.

  244. hi ofa-steves

  245. I’ll report him for sexual harassment, Eingang. I don’t like the way he keeps typing at me and using foul language.

    It isn’t decent.

  246. Issues? He’s got a lifetime subscription.

  247. Polar bears are nothing but grizzly bears who think they’re too good to associate with the “mud” bears. Besides, they eat helpless (and cute) seal pups. The only reason the Coca-Cola company, a company based in the heart of dixie (IYKWIMAITTYD) uses them as mascots is because they’re white.

    They deserve to die for their raaaaacissssm

  248. White fur privilege? Bgbear warned us about them.

  249. ofa /steves = tying down the opposition. brilliant mein heir. what would stalin/axeldude do?

  250. “just noticed he’s back to issteve instead of wassteve.”

    Could be Jeff has been banning, and Dog Vomit has been switching up.

    I don’t know about multiple pukes, but I certainly wouldn’t rule it out in these days of progg internet game theory.

  251. People’s Commissioner Tirebiter will sort him out, Leigh.

  252. The funniest thing about people claiming that melting ice will cause the rise of the oceans is that they forget that ice actually loses volume as it melts (maximum density is at 4C/39F). (ProTip: That’s why ice floats in the first place.) – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048958

    The funniest thing about that is that it doesn’t take into account that ice in greenland and antarctica tends to currently be on land

    You’re the dumbest one here. Blitz claims to be trying to best you, but he’s not even close.

    Of course you didn’t, but that is how big the world is, and how insignificant people are – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048958

    The old “people can’t matter because they’re just people” argument. What was the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere in 1960 and what is it now. You’re one of those “learn a lot of facts from a book but can’t really apply them” kinds of people. It makes you smarter than Drum, but not much more useful.

    If they actually gave a damn about the Environment™ they’d get out of the way of all the farmers who have degrees in agri-business and let them run their farms in an efficient and businesslike manner. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048958

    Because nothing says natural environment like a 1000 acres of barley.

    Drum, they have apparently never left a pitcher of ice water out on the counter, either. Hint: it doesn’t overflow. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048958

    You’re really that fucking dumb that you think projections for sea level don’t make a distinction between land ice and sea ice?

    Don’t force us to talk about organ transplant, cancer treatment protocols and lab safety just to make you feel stupid, steve. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048958

    You just said that and you don’t know the difference between land ice and sea ice. Hahahaha. (breath) Hahahahaa.

    And if DV was so concerned about fresh water, then he wouldn’t be bitching about Antarctica melting, since 70% of the planet’s fresh water is down there in solid form. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048958

    Pop quiz. The population of which country gets drinking water from Antarctica? Answer: You’re the dumbest one here.

    Wait a minute wait a minute…HUH? Ok, so this whole Polar vortex thingy is because aof AGW? So who the HELL ( Looking at YOU McGehee ) set up a thousand coal burning power plants at the North Pole?…Santa? – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048958

    Nice try, but Drum is still dumber. Not everything is intuitive. Look up things like the relationship between the Gulf Stream and temperatures in Western Europe for clues.

    We (the people) being my team. Those people over there; they can go to hell. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048958

    We – the people – meaning everyone. The ones that want to ram their way through from a minority position (deficit ceiling, government shutdown, repeal obamacare) is your team. Stop projecting.

    No one, here, really has anything at all against gays, women, or minorities (except happyfeet, who has a nasty streak of misogyny that we’re attempting to beat out of him). – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1048958

    Really? Show of hands. Who supports gay marriage. You honestly need to just STFU about not being against gays because now you’re just lying. happyfeet is about the only one here who’s supported gay rights.

  253. oh the irs? you go ‘em statists stevie. maybe epa?

  254. >The funniest thing about that is that it doesn’t take into account that ice in greenland and antarctica tends to currently be on land <

    and it is melting when exactly?

  255. I’m just gonna post this nonresponse. Lol.

  256. >What was the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere in 1960 and what is it now.<

    on a planet 3,2,1 billions(biblical 6000yrs) old seems kinda of stupid statistically no?

  257. People’s Commissioner Tirebiter will sort him out, Leigh.

    George really earns his money.

  258. “Not everything is intuitive.”

    Like demand, the Laffer curve, game theory…LOL!

  259. “Really? Show of hands. Who supports gay marriage. You honestly need to just STFU about not being against gays because now you’re just lying.”

    Yeah, being for gay marriage is the only way not to be against gays. Wow, you’re an idiot.

  260. Oh what a dumb shit is steve.

  261. Clearly, steve 1 has never taken a physics class that included a lab.

  262. Who supports gay marriage.

    Gay people can get married all they want to as far as I am concerned. And then they can divorce the hell out of each other to their heart’s content just as straight people do, and I will also not object.

  263. I’m starting to think he’s half a brain in a jar. And the jar is full of lies and long island iced tea.

  264. >The ones that want to ram their way through from a minority position<

    hi ofa and nsa tell you what eff u. you be the communist/powerhungry minority.

    regards,
    v. havel

  265. So: quit projecting, you ignorant, superficial jackass.

  266. just remember the bolsheviks were claiming the majority in 1917

  267. I think steve should tell us about his mother. Were you breast-fed long enough, steve?

  268. The funniest thing about that is that it doesn’t take into account that ice in greenland and antarctica tends to currently be on land

    How many sheep are currently grazing in Greenland?

    I only ask because the entire Greenlander economy, from the 10th to the 14th century, was based upon sheep.

  269. As for Antartica, this is only a guess of course, but I bet there’s more ice hanging off the ice shelves than sitting atop terra firma. Maybe I’m wrong.

  270. Clearly, steve 1 has never taken a physics class that included a lab. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049067

    Sit down with your smart sons and have them explain the difference between land ice and sea ice to you.

    Gay people can get married all they want to as far as I am concerned. And then they can divorce the hell out of each other to their heart’s content just as straight people do, and I will also not object. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049067

    Who stands with Slart on this? Show of hands.

  271. I think you’re wrong about that, Ernst. On this one occasion, steve has a point. If all of the land ice in the world melted, sea levels would rise. A lot. Maybe 200 ft.

    But that’s just not going to happen in any of the next few centuries, so even people as slow physically as steve is intellectually will have plenty of time to move or die before being overcome by the waves.

  272. >The funniest thing about that is that it doesn’t take into account that ice in greenland and antarctica tends to currently be on land <

    having had to thaw pipes today from the cold : how long would it take, in your "scientific mind", to melt those areas and at what temperature for how long?

  273. Um…dude…you can’t actually see people raising their hands in blog comments.

  274. I agree with Mr. Slarticus

  275. You honestly need to just STFU about not being against gays…

    Oooh – somebody has another sore point.

    What was the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere in 1960 and what is it now. You’re one of those “learn a lot of facts from a book but can’t really apply them” kinds of people.

    More projection form the EBOS.

    Global temperatures are essentially the same today as they were in 1995, when atmospheric carbon dioxide levels were merely 360 ppm.[now395]

    Explain that, EBOS, and then why the Roman and Medieval Warm periods were warmer than now without “antropogenic” CO2, then this, this,, then how CO2 lags, not leads, temperature. After that, tell us what the “optimum” CO2 level is.

    What’s that Lassie, you can’t ?

  276. But that’s just not going to happen in any of the next few dozen centuries

    Updated to add appreciation for the real time-scale involved.

  277. >The funniest thing about that is that it doesn’t take into account that ice in greenland and antarctica tends to currently be on land <

    so do you warming cultist believe that the sun revolves around the earth?

  278. Because nothing says natural environment like a 1000 acres of barley.

    If you care so much about the natural environment, move there.

    Personally, I doubt you’d last as long as that McCandless idiot lasted.

    Nature is a relentless, unforgiving bitch not to be trifled with. Which is why we’ve done everything our ingenuity can devise to get the hell out of her grasp. And we’ve been so successful at it that dreamy schmucks like you think it’s all Disneyland.

  279. yea you would have to beam that heat source directly for a few years to melt greenland, antarctica . dealing with pot smoking losers or soros

  280. steve is a guy who, to all apearances, came into being just a month or two ago and is struggling to absorb human knowledge available to most primary school students. –

    Well, he is an “environmental sociology” major. We should give him a break.

  281. gay people have always been allowed to marry, and always will be.

    Just not to someone of the same sex, because that wouldn’t be marriage, it’s something else.

  282. or saudi shakes/jihadis

  283. The funniest thing about that is that it doesn’t take into account that ice in greenland and antarctica tends to currently be on land

    Antarctic ice is GROWING, DV, didn’t you see those climate scientists needing to be rescued from pack ice? In the SUMMER, no less.

    I realize you are allergic to facts, but they have pills for that these days.

    What was the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere in 1960 and what is it now.

    Given that CO2 changes come AFTER temperature changes, what difference would it make what it was?

    Not everything is intuitive. Look up things like the relationship between the Gulf Stream and temperatures in Western Europe for clues. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049064

    Or just look at what it was being blamed on 40 years ago versus what it is being blamed on now. What will it be blamed on 40 years from now? (Or do you know that the planet has actually been cooling the past few years?)

    You’re really that fucking dumb that you think projections for sea level don’t make a distinction between land ice and sea ice?

    Really? Show us that evidence. Go ahead. Take your time. Why weren’t those lands flooded out during the Medieval Warm Period, when it was MUCH warmer? Don’t worry about that laughter, that’s still me.

    The population of which country gets drinking water from Antarctica?

    Pop quiz: Millions of people are fleeing coastal cities in which country? Be specific. I’ll be over here laughing at your stupidity.

    Not everything is intuitive.

    See also “the sun so hot I froze to death” and remember why we’re laughing at you.

    We – the people – meaning everyone.

    Show us the vote(s) for ObamaCare. Take your time. (See also “deemed passed”.) And forcing people to buy something they don’t want against their will, despite numerous promises to the contrary, doesn’t mean “everyone”. How’s that popularity doing these days? How many more times will Obama violate the Constitution before you get it?

    The ones that want to ram their way through from a minority position (deficit ceiling, government shutdown, repeal obamacare) is your team

    Deficit ceiling was Obama’s idea. (Look it up.) The Democrats could have actually held votes on the government funding to prevent the shutdowns. (Harry Reid refused.) And when 53% of “everyone” wants to get rid of ObamaCare, I’d say that’s a majority.

  284. Really? Show of hands. Who supports gay marriage. You honestly need to just STFU about not being against gays because now you’re just lying. happyfeet is about the only one here who’s supported gay rights. -

    The premise of your argument here is based on a fallacy.

  285. gay marriage is gay stevies/ofa/soros/jihadis(we agree, death to the infidel)

  286. “Sit down with your smart sons and have them explain the difference between land ice and sea ice to you. ”

    Thermodynamics over long periods in a fluctuating non predictable system? Chaos? What’s THAT? Sounds like more denier bullshit.

  287. I think you’re wrong about that, Ernst. On this one occasion, steve has a point. If all of the land ice in the world melted, sea levels would rise. A lot. Maybe 200 ft.

    No he doesn’t have a point because he thinks a couple of degrees is going to cause a melting catastrophe without realizing that 90% of the world’s ice is at Antarctica, and that the average temp is -80C.

    So – by the time the average temp at Antarctica raised 80C to reach the melting point, the average temp of the world would be way the hell higher and the point of melting Antartic ice rather moot.

    Next, at the present IPCC rate of 1.3 C/century it will take 6154 years to reach that point.

    Clearly We Must Do Something NOW !!!!!11!!!eleventy!!! Because there is no natural variation. Ever. For Anything.

  288. What was the concentration of CO(2) in the Triassic, and why shouldn’t that be considered optimal?

    Why do you hate the Carboniferous?

    Speciesist sonofabitch. What makes you think hominids have a better right to this planet that ferns?

    Fuck you.

  289. What are the odds that this Steve clown is really a high school student with an overdue science paper and we are doing his research for him ?

  290. He’s gonna fail, then, just as he is failing here.

  291. the average temp is -80C

    I think you’ve slipped a digit, there. At -80C, CO2 would start snowing out of the air, or close to it.

  292. Angiospermist.

  293. I’ve read -37C average. Which is fucking cold enough.

    Your point about how much the temperature would have to rise to melt the icecap, though, is relevant. If it warms up a mere 37C, and stays there, in a couple of hundred centuries we might have little but a little snowfall on antarctica.

  294. The climate of Antarctica is the coldest on the whole of Earth. Antarctica has the lowest naturally occurring temperature ever recorded on the ground on Earth: ?89.2 °C (?128.6 °F) at Vostok Station.[1] Satellites have recorded even lower temperatures, down to -93.2 °C (-135.8 °F) in August 2010.[2] It is also extremely dry (technically a desert), averaging 166 mm (6.5 in) of precipitation per year. Even so, on most parts of the continent the snow rarely melts and is eventually compressed to become the glacial ice that makes up the ice sheet. Weather fronts rarely penetrate far into the continent. Most of Antarctica has an ice cap climate (Köppen EF) with very cold, generally extremely dry weather.

    The lowest reliably measured temperature of a continuously occupied station on Earth of ?89.2 °C (?128.6 °F) was on 21 July 1983 at Vostok Station.[3][4] For comparison, this is 10.7 °C (19.3 °F) colder than subliming dry ice (at sea level pressure). The altitude of the location is 3,900 meters (12,800 feet).

    The lowest recorded temperature of any location on Earth surface was ?93.2 °C (?135.8 °F) at 81.8°S 59.3°E, which is on an unnamed Antarctic plateau between Dome A and Dome F, on August 10, 2010. The temperature was deduced from radiance measured by the Landsat 8 satellite, and discovered during a National Snow and Ice Data Center review of stored data in December, 2013.[5][6] This temperature is not directly comparable to the -89.2 quoted above, since it is a skin temperature deduced from satellite-measured upwelling radiance, rather than a thermometer-measured temperature of the air 1.5m above the ground surface.

    The highest temperature ever recorded in Antarctica was 14.6°C (58.3°F) in two places, Hope Bay and Vanda Station, on 5 January 1974.[7] The mean annual temperature of the interior is ?57°C (?70°F). The coast is warmer. Monthly means at McMurdo Station range from ?28°C (?18.4°F) in August to ?3°C (26.6°F) in January.[citation needed] At the South Pole, the highest temperature ever recorded was ?12.3°C (9.9°F) on 25 December 2011.[8] Along the Antarctic Peninsula, temperatures as high as 15°C (59°F) have been recorded,[clarification needed] though the summer temperature is usually around 2°C (36°F). Severe low temperatures vary with latitude, elevation, and distance from the ocean. East Antarctica is colder than West Antarctica because of its higher elevation[citation needed]. The Antarctic Peninsula has the most moderate climate. Higher temperatures occur in January along the coast and average slightly below freezing.

  295. wikipedia BTW

  296. >by the time the average temp at Antarctica raised 8 0C to reach the melting point<

    you need more energy to get over the 0 C hump. debating with the scientifically stupid.

  297. Benedict Hainsworth, Clitheroe
    Like the rest of the Earth’s landmass, Antarctica is affected by ‘continental drift’, and is propelled across the face of our planet by the roiling motion of convective currents deep within the Earth. Around 450 million years ago parts of Antarctica were actually north of the equator, and the continent only arrived at its present position at the South Pole within the last 70 million years or so. Even then, the much warmer global climate kept it free of ice. Dinosaur fossils found there attest to its relatively balmy conditions – it only became a vast, frozen wilderness around 20 million years ago.

    The combined effects of geological and climatic change have not ceased, however, though working out their impact on Antarctica is fraught with uncertainty. According to calculations by geologist Professor Christopher Scotese of the University of Texas, Antarctica could
    move significantly away from its current location and become at least partially ice-free again within the next 50 million years.

  298. Newrouter,

    I know, but that is a concept too advanced for the EBOS.

  299. We are talking full water liquidus for the continent right? Like no standing ice at all?

  300. Really? Show us that evidence. Go ahead. Take your time. Why weren’t those lands flooded out during the Medieval Warm Period, when it was MUCH warmer? Don’t worry about that laughter, that’s still me. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049088

    Because it wasn’t so much warmer globally. Go check.

    Antarctic ice is GROWING, DV, didn’t you see those climate scientists needing to be rescued from pack ice? In the SUMMER, no less. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049088

    The trend for Antarctic ice mass has, at best, been flat, and likely has been decreasing. Greenland has definitely been losing ice. Other land ice (glaciers) have undeniably been in decline. One cold summer does not a climate make. Why is that so hard for you to get? Oh, that’s right, because you’re the dumbest one here.

    Given that CO2 changes come AFTER temperature changes, what difference would it make what it was? – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049088

    Positive feedback loop

    Millions of people are fleeing coastal cities in which country? Be specific. I’ll be over here laughing at your stupidity. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049088

    It generally happens all at once when an extreme storm hits the (now) most vulnerable coastal areas.

    Show us the vote(s) for ObamaCare. Take your time. (See also “deemed passed”.) And forcing people to buy something they don’t want against their will, despite numerous promises to the contrary, doesn’t mean “everyone”. How’s that popularity doing these days? How many more times will Obama violate the Constitution before you get it? – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049088

    You might have missed when the president campaigned on it, and got elected, and then the law passed and the president got elected again. If people support repeal they can start voting in people in Nov who will work to make that happen.

    What was the concentration of CO(2) in the Triassic, and why shouldn’t that be considered optimal? – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049088

    I don’t recall the planet supporting 7 billion people in the Triassic.

  301. Getting ice from 0C to water at 1C requires as much energy as getting that water from 1C to 80C. (see also “Enthalpy of fusion”)

  302. What are the odds that this Steve clown is really a high school student with an overdue science paper and we are doing his research for him ? – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049124

    Sidebar: Now that was clever.

    Back to regularly scheduled arguing.

  303. Most of those ? are -

  304. Palaeo,

    I stand corrected – from the U of Wisconsin (cold enough as it is):

    The lowest recorded Antarctic temperature was taken at Vostok Station in July 1983: -89.2°C (-128.6°F). The lowest South Pole temperature is from June 23, 1982: -82.8°C (-117.0°F). The warmest temperature ever recorded at the South Pole, recorded at the height of the austral summer, December 25, 2011, was still well below freezing: -12.3°C (+9.9°F).

    So between the record low and record high, a reasonable average over time is around -47C, so we only have 3615 years to solve this Urgent Threat To The Planet !!!! That is almost twice as urgent as my previous estimate – the problem is doubling !!!!

  305. >One cold summer does not a climate make. Why is that so hard for you to get? <

    stevie how many really hot summers will it take to melt greenland, artic, antarctica?
    do they freeze back?

  306. “Because it wasn’t so much warmer globally. Go check. ”

    It was confirmed in the entire northern hemisphere. So, why no floody?

    ” Positive feedback loop”

    Explain.

    “The trend for Antarctic ice mass has, at best, been flat, and likely has been decreasing.”

    Trend over what time scale?

    “It generally happens all at once when an extreme storm hits the (now) most vulnerable coastal areas. ”

    Extreme storms are not melting ice or even raised global sea levels. Extreme storms arise from increased temperature differentials not increased temperature anyway.

    “You might have missed when the president campaigned on it, and got elected, and then the law passed and the president got elected again. If people support repeal they can start voting in people in Nov who will work to make that happen. ”

    Actually a lot of people who voted for it lost their seats. It’s still very unpopular.

    “I don’t recall the planet supporting 7 billion people in the Triassic.”

    Indeed. yet you missed the point entirely.

  307. Because it wasn’t so much warmer globally.

    It was a hell of a lot warmer then than it is now. They were growing grapes in England and Greenland. And then, just a few hundred years later, it was suddenly a hell of a lot COLDER than it is now. All within the last thousand years. Look it up.

    The trend for Antarctic ice mass has, at best, been flat, and likely has been decreasing.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/04/130401-global-warming-antarctica-sea-ice-science-environment/

    But in Antarctica, where sea ice is more scattered and driven by wind and waves, there’s another story—ice is increasing in places.

    In September of {2012}, satellite data indicated that Antarctica was surrounded by the greatest area of sea ice ever recorded in the region:

    I don’t recall the planet supporting 7 billion people in the Triassic.

    Funny how no one recalls the ocean levels rising during the Medieval Warm Period, either. Or don’t facts matter in your world?

    It generally happens all at once when an extreme storm hits the (now) most vulnerable coastal areas.

    Which explains why New Orleans (at 8 feet BELOW sea level), New York City (at and slightly above mean sea level (MSL)) and Miami (at MSL) are abandoned. Oh, wait, that’s right, I forgot. You’re just an idiot.

    Positive feedback loop

    Ambulatory outpatient care. Your turn.

    You might have missed when the president campaigned on it, and got elected, and then the law passed and the president got elected again – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049125

    You might have missed the fact that a majority of people have been against it from the very beginning, and not a single Republican voted for it. By the way, you keep forgetting to explain “deemed passed”. You know, that “remove and replace” tactic that was never voted on by the House (as required by the Constitution), even when the Dems were running things?

  308. and likely has been decreasing

    What’s the likelihood? Show your work. Also show your sources.

    Positive feedback loop

    Horseshit. I don’t think you’d know a feedback loop if it bit you.

    I don’t recall the planet supporting 7 billion people in the Triassic.

    So the real problem is too many people? I have been saying that all along, but no one listens.

  309. Oh yeah despite the northern hemisphere stipulation to get things moving:

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/10/31/new-paper-shows-medieval-warm-period-was-global-in-scope/

  310. It generally happens all at once when an extreme storm hits the (now) most vulnerable coastal areas.

    Oh look, there really is no increase in the number of hurricanes hitting the US, or “Extreme Storms ™, even in the Pacific.

    Your assignment EBOS, is to tell us why they seem worse.

  311. A positive feedback loop tends to accelerate a rate of change as it proceeds. It does not however transpose a forerunner datum with a follower datum.

    It does not mean that heat rise followed by carbon dioxide rise indicates that the following carbon dioxide rise is somehow driving the heat rise.

    B happens, then A happens, so A caused B, because ‘positiive feedback loop’ is a fucking nonsequitor.

  312. One cold summer does not a climate make.

    Yet you ilk claims every hot summer (for that matter, day) does a climate make. How do you square that contradiction, Junior ?

  313. carbon dioxide is like a sweater the erf puts on

    a sweater what hugs her tits in a way what’s calculated to be fetching and get attention

    but that’s just cause the erf has low self esteem

  314. Some of us are engineers who understand what feedback loops are. And some of us are steve.

  315. “carbon dioxide is like a sweater the erf puts on”

    No, it is not.

  316. yes it is I heard it on NPR

  317. It generally happens all at once when an extreme storm hits the (now) most vulnerable coastal areas.

    Extreme storms never bothered us back in the day, though.

  318. I was hoping that steve would claim that the carbon dioxide follows the heat because it was an open feedback loop. Then all we have to do is slow down that optical encoder to slow the whole thing down. But if it’s got an actual sensor monitoring everything, and a controller, and some weird nature actuator with multiple states then we’ll have to program a giant arduino board or something…and I’m not really all that eager to bust out my LISP books again even if it is to save the planet.

  319. “NPR” us dumb asses with coffee cups chatting about shit they think nerds handle with magic.

  320. >yes it is I heard it on NPR<

    go pravda go cool dude

  321. NPR is the mama bird what chews the food so you don’t have to

    ungrateful sod

  322. >yes it is I heard it on NPR<

    did npr have bango drums or the african kind?

  323. they had a special name for them

    i can’t remember but they were drums of authority and gravitas

  324. >NPR is the mama bird what chews the food so you don’t have to <

    and that be covered by obamacare?

  325. do the chinese bang the drum slowly? may need msg there.

  326. I’m confused. I mean, really confused and in need of some assistance.

    On the one hand we’ve got,

    [millions of people in coastal cities fleeing] generally happens all at once when an extreme storm hits the (now) most vulnerable coastal areas.

    And on the other,

    One cold summer does not a climate make.

    I’ve been so busy noodling out whether a category 5 hurricane is weather or climate that I almost forgot to notice the bit about coastal areas being more vulnerable now as compared to some idyllic past where coastal areas were less vulnerable to extreme storms.

    So help me out here fellas. Which one was the asspull, and which one was the brainfart?

  327. Category V? Pshaah. Al Gore was about to invent Category VI storms for us because of all the glabl war-cold-storm-en-ing going on, before Ezra Klein took one for the team and called his own interview notes liars.

  328. “So help me out here fellas.”

    Anecdotes that help deniers are NOT data. Anecdotes that help AGW scams ARE data pro tempore. Because positive feedback loop, Laffer Curve, and game theory.

  329. “do the chinese bang the drum slowly?”

    No, but there might be a ‘Flower Drum Song’ joke floating around in there somewhere. I denounce myself. I also denounce Rogers and Hammerstein.

  330. Which one was the asspull, and which one was the brainfart?

    Six of one, half a dozen of the other, and they’re both utterly wrong, amusingly enough. DV does seem to be quite comfortable with pulling things out of his ass, though.

  331. “The plural of ‘anecdote’ is not ‘data’ in much the same way that the plural of ‘tree’ is not ‘forest’.”

  332. the plural of tree is “trees” Mr. Drumwaster

    you just have to add an “s” at the end

  333. But positive feedback loop. POSITIVE FEEDBACK LOOP!

  334. We’re just against forcing the relocation of millions of people and shrinking fresh water supplies, due to our own actions, when there are (increasingly) viable alternatives.
    Why’s that so fucking hard for a smart man like you to understand?

    Because we’re smart enough to tell a self-serving lie when we see it.

    HTH, HAND.

  335. Oh, and…
    Does that imply that conservatives are cool with 200 degrees and a population of zero – because who’s to say what’s right?

    Certainly not the strawman you just brutally beat up.

  336. Lysenko!
    Science!(tm)
    Consensus!
    New Understanding!

  337. >No, but there might be a ‘Flower Drum Song’ joke floating around in there somewhere<

    ucla banned shake it speer stuff

  338. There aren’t really any forcing functions in climate, aside from the sun, despite what the climatologists tell you. These are guys that know even less about signal flow than they do about statistics. Forcing functions are inputs, you see. CO2 doesn’t add any energy.

  339. paleomerus wrote:
    Someone did some measurements and produced a number and steve wants to believe it so he cries “SCIENCE!(m)” any time it is challenged.

    …and Ms. Sakamoto still doesn’t give him the time of day.

    (…and work filters are preventing me from looking up the lyrics to Thomas Dolby’s famous song so I might have gotten the name wrong.)

  340. the erf has a fever

  341. >CO2 doesn’t add any energy.<

    you forgot about the activists. the "99%". go clowns

  342. It’s poetry in motion
    She turned her tender eyes to me
    As deep as any ocean
    As sweet as any harmony
    Mmm – but she blinded me with science
    “She blinded me with science!”
    And failed me in biology

    When I’m dancing close to her
    “Blinding me with science – science!”
    I can smell the chemicals
    “Blinding me with science – science!”
    “Science!”
    “Science!”

    Mmm – but it’s poetry in motion
    And when she turned her eyes to me
    As deep as any ocean
    As sweet as any harmony
    Mmm – but she blinded me with science
    And failed me in geometry

    When she’s dancing next to me
    “Blinding me with science – science!”
    “Science!”
    I can hear machinery
    “Blinding me with science – science!”
    “Science!”

    It’s poetry in motion
    And now she’s making love to me
    The spheres’re in commotion
    The elements in harmony
    She blinded me with science
    “She blinded me with science!”
    And hit me with technology

    “Good heavens Miss Sakamoto – you’re beautiful!”
    I –
    I don’t believe it!
    There she goes again!
    She’s tidied up, and I can’t find anything!
    All my tubes and wires
    And careful notes
    And antiquated notions

    But! – it’s poetry in motion
    And when she turned her eyes to me
    As deep as any ocean
    As sweet as any harmony
    Mmm – but she blinded me with science
    “She blinded me with – with science!”
    She blinded me with -

  343. the erf needs a cold compact or OBAMACARE

  344. or obamacare: take an aspirin and get inline in the morning.

  345. stevie blathered in “defense” of his 200-deg claim:
    Read the statement it was in response to.

    …and when one does that it becomes obvious you were setting up a strawman.

    Too bad.

  346. While we’re doing Thomas Dolby:

    I don’t want your love
    Don’t want your money
    I just want the key to your Ferrari
    Don’t want your bed
    I don’t want your body
    I just want the key to your Ferrari

    I’m gonna rip it – shine it – rev it –
    Scoot it – skid it – jam it –
    Rev it – skip it – gun it –
    Up and down the 101
    Don’t want your love
    Don’t want your money, girl
    I said all I want is the key to your Ferrari.

    And then…! And then I saw her…
    She was a bright red ’64 GTO
    With fins and gills like some giant piranha fish,
    Some obscene phallic symbol on wheels….
    Little rivers of anticipation ran down my inseam
    As I kicked those five hundred Italian horses into life
    And left reality behind me:
    Fifty, sixty, seventy miles an hour…OH!
    My hand slipped inside the belt of my trousers
    As we passed eighty, ninety miles an hour…
    And as we hit the magic hundred, I…
    Yes, my love exploded all over her bright pink leather interior…

    And at that moment, I thought of my mother.

  347. My team is about democracy and egalitarianism.

    No, you claim so whilst doing the opposite.

    Oh wait, you’re just another drone parroting the talking points you’re handed so you actually believe what you wrote. Too bad.

  348. Yeah those old new wave beating off in a borrowed luxury sports car songs were really something else. Now it’s all about smokin’ pot, abusing strippers, and shootin’ people.

  349. And wrecking balls.

  350. Slartibartfast says January 8, 2014 at 9:29 pm Um…dude…you can’t actually see people raising their hands in blog comments.

    Shh. He’s probably still wondering why his wallet isn’t giving him a high-five after he switched to GEICO…

  351. @drumwaster: The link you provided showed up in Bing, but the filters here blocked it. :-D

  352. So, Steven. How come the warming computer models can’t account for the cooling of the last 16 years?
    And don’t hand me the UPenn data set that was kludged together last year to cover their asses. There is no data to account for this.

    As an aside; Global warming since 1800 has been .001 deg C. One one thousandth of a degree celsius.
    Not enough to worry about.

  353. My team is about democracy and egalitarianism. My team believes that we (the people) make the rules for us (the people). That doesn’t sound a lot like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kim, Castro, Chavez.

    What it really sounds like is Maximilien Francois Marie Isadore Robespierre. He was very big on Rousseau, and therefore concepts like “the general will”, which you may or may not recall is exactly the kind of ill-defined and easily malleable platitude that leads like night-into-day to things like the Reign of Terror.

    “The people” don’t make laws. At best the people’s representatives will make laws. Today, the judiciary and the bureaucracy make the laws, and the President picks and chooses which ones will apply and to whom and what extent.

  354. Steven just likes hisself some fascism. He’s a right little totalitarian.
    Prolly cause he lacks those all important critical thinking skills he thinks he has so much of.
    Reads Mother Jones, he does.
    Thinks hisself informed.
    Can’t defend a position he has no talking points for.

  355. “The people” don’t make laws.

    They do in the Occupy ghettos of which I suspect Steve is a frequent denizen and hence fan of mobocracy.

  356. A 2006 paper derived from satellite data, measures changes in the gravity of the ice mass, suggests that the total amount of ice in Antarctica has begun decreasing in the past few years.[16] Another recent study compared the ice leaving the ice sheet, by measuring the ice velocity and thickness along the coast, to the amount of snow accumulation over the continent. This found that the East Antarctic Ice Sheet was in balance but the West Antarctic Ice Sheet was losing mass. This was largely due to acceleration of ice streams such as Pine Island Glacier. These results agree closely with the gravity changes.[17][18] The estimate published in November 2012 and based on the GRACE data as well as on an improved glacial isostatic adjustment model indicates that an average yearly mass loss was 69 ± 18 Gt/y from 2002 to 2010. The West Antarctic Ice Sheet was approximately in balance while the East Antarctic Ice Sheet gained mass. The mass loss was mainly concentrated along the Amundsen Sea coast.[19]

    But here’s the fallacy in all your arguing. The *only* thing that matters is (pay very close attention) changes in *net* *global* *land* *ice*. Each of those four words are important. Don’t leave any out in your rebuttal. You will find all evidence indicates loss in net global land ice. You will find no evidence of increases in net global land ice. Do you accept this as a fact or dispute it?

    It does not mean that heat rise followed by carbon dioxide rise indicates that the following carbon dioxide rise is somehow driving the heat rise. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049126

    Do you doubt that CO2 is a greenhouse gas? Do you doubt that it is transparent to visible light and opaque to infrared?

    Yet you ilk claims every hot summer (for that matter, day) does a climate make. How do you square that contradiction, Junior ? – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049126

    Only stupid people point to a hot summer in one part of the world and say, “global warming”. There are a lot of stupid people.

    I’ve been so busy noodling out whether a category 5 hurricane is weather or climate that I almost forgot to notice the bit about coastal areas being more vulnerable now as compared to some idyllic past where coastal areas were less vulnerable to extreme storms. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049126

    I’ll help you out. One cat 5 storm is not a result of climate. If, as planetary temperature warms, the measured severity of storms increases, then you would have a correlation. However pay attention if you’re skimming I’m not saying that storm severity has increased. This is an area of investigation, so (for the sake of argument), lets say that storms today are no more severe or frequent than they were 100 years ago.

    What I am saying is that six inches in sea level rise will make certain areas another point to pay attention more vulnerable to a storm of the same size.

    There aren’t really any forcing functions in climate, aside from the sun, despite what the climatologists tell you. These are guys that know even less about signal flow than they do about statistics. Forcing functions are inputs, you see. CO2 doesn’t add any energy. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049126

    I had thought you were kind of smart, but now I see otherwise. The temperature of the planet is an equilibrium point where the amount of energy incident on the earth equals the amount of energy radiated or reflected. If you change the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, you affect that amount of energy radiated and move to a new equilibrium point.

    the erf has a fever

    And the only cure is more cowbell

    Global warming since 1800 has been .001 deg C. One one thousandth of a degree celsius. – See more at: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52394#comment-1049126

    You’re wrong. Go try to find a source for that.

  357. The *only* thing that matters is (pay very close attention) changes in *net* *global* *land* *ice*.

    Still waiting for the explanation for lack of flooding across North America and Europe during the Medieval Warm Period, where temps were MUCH higher than they are today. Especially in those low lying regions that would be most prone to it, if it had actually happened. (Italy, Japan, northwestern Europe, etc.) Facts, you see. Try and get a few before you come back.

    http://www.fcpp.org/images/publications/MedievalWarmPeriod500.jpg

  358. If you change the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, you affect that amount of energy radiated and move to a new equilibrium point.

    Except, and this is the important bit, you are reversing the data points.

    First, the temperature goes up, THEN the CO2 levels rise. Much like “first the earthquake, then the building collapses”. No amount of greenhouse gases AFTER the event will explain how the event occurs FIRST.

  359. Only stupid people point to a hot summer in one part of the world and say, “global warming”. There are a lot of stupid people.

    Indeed, and it is the global warming fanatics and media who do the former, and regarding the latter, you are a league leader.

  360. Can we go back to the bit where stevie claims that because I want people to leave me alone in peace, and I will in turn leave them to live their lives as they see fit, it means that I’m just one step from rounding up all the wimminz and brown people and gays and shoving them in the ovens?

    Can we go back to the bit where stevie claims that his team is the Champion of the Oppressed, when every bit of evidence in front of us shows that his team’s policies have hollowed out our big cities, destroyed the black family, and caused untold misery to the working class?

    My team thinks that families — black or white, rich or poor — should not be forced to send their children to dysfunctional indoctrination centers. My team thinks that entrepreneurs — black or white, rich or poor, urban or rural — should be allowed to start new businesses without being crushed by the regulatory state. My team thinks that states — red or blue, coastal or flyover — are sovereign entities which should be free of one-size-fits-none laws out of a Washington Beltway that has far exceeded the authority granted to it when those sovereign states signed on to the Union.

    Please, let’s examine more closely the assumptions upon which you base your assertions, stevie. Explain to me again how it is that “your side” is for freedom and democracy, when you spend every election cycle lying about your policies in an effort to trick enough people into granting you the power to control all our lives “for our own good.”

  361. Or, alternatively, you could just fuck off already.

  362. Greenland: 836,300 SQ MI @ avg 1 MI thick = 836,300 CU MI ice.

    Antarctic land ice: 5.4 MILLION SQ Mi@ avg 2 MI thich = 10.8 MILLION CU MI

    The above is 99% of the land ice in the world. Greenland is 7.7% of that 99%

    ICESAT data shows mass gains, not net loss of land ice in antarctica.

    As Antarctica is the only real contributor to net global land ice, loss anywhere else is negligible.

    QED

  363. And the only cure is more cowbell

    Is “cowbell” some kind of lefty code for centralized government power?

  364. It’s cute that even the breathless Copenhagen report posits an Antarctic contribution to sea levels of less than 1 mm per year. Why, at that rate, the seas will be a whole meter higher by the year 3200! Good heavens — do you realize that coastal fishermen in Bangladesh might be forced to move their huts further up the beach twice, or maybe three times, over the course of just one millennium? Oh, the humanity!

  365. And people in the middle of the Sahara Desert have to be careful about wasting water, so we have to completely wreck the world economy, rather than, say, MOVING THEM TO WHERE THE WATER IS.

    Because deserts aren’t supposed to happen in a world 2/3 covered with water, right?

  366. an average yearly mass loss was 69 ± 18 Gt/y from 2002 to 2010

    Gosh, that sounds just awful. But if you look at the total ice mass there, that’s 0.002% of the total. We could lose that much ice every single year for millenia before it made anything resembling a difference.

    Sometimes what’s going on is a periodic dip in precipitation; if it isn’t landing, it’s sublimating off. I would conjecture that sublimation exceeding precipitation is exactly what’s happening, given that freezing temperatures are really only ever exceeded on the peninsula.

  367. I had thought you were kind of smart, but now I see otherwise. The temperature of the planet is an equilibrium point where the amount of energy incident on the earth equals the amount of energy radiated or reflected. If you change the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, you affect that amount of energy radiated and move to a new equilibrium point.

    Yes, that is true. But it doesn’t negate my statement.

    The only INPUTs to Earth’s temperature that matter are infalling solar radiation and outgoing radiation. When you increase the amount of CO2, you are merely changing part of the transfer function, not adding or supplementing an input.

    Now fuck off, and go teach your grandma how to suck eggs. You are clearly out of your depth here.

  368. Correction: outgoing radiation is the output. Temperature is an intermediate state.

    But just try and write an analytic expression for “global average temperature”. I dare you.

  369. Too bad I didn’t find this sooner:

    “If you’ve been hearing that extreme cold spells, like the one that we’re having in the United States now, disprove global warming, don’t believe it,” warned President Barack Obama’s Science and Technology Advisor, Dr. John Holdren. “No single weather episode can either prove or disprove global climate change.”

    “A growing body of evidence suggests that the kind of extreme cold being experienced by much of the United States as we speak is a pattern we can expect to see with increasing frequency as global warming continues,” said Holdren. “I believe the odds are that we can expect, as a result of global warming, to see more of this pattern of extreme cold.”

    Weather and climate are what we say they are!

  370. Or perhaps better:

    “This cold storm is weather, NOT climate, but since the climate is changing, expect more of this weather!”

  371. “No single weather episode can either prove or disprove global climate change.”

    If there is no evidence that can prove or disprove it, it is not a science. (See also “falsifiability”.) The correct term is “pseudoscience”. Or, in non-scientific terms, “religion”.

    And when diametrically opposed phenomenon are both cited as “proof” and no amount of data can be used to disprove, then it is not science, no matter how many times “eleventy!!!” is used…

    http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm

    http://blog.heritage.org/2009/11/17/global-warming-ate-my-homework-100-things-blamed-on-global-warming/

  372. It rained all the day the night I left,
    The weather, it was dry
    The sun so hot I froze to death,
    Susanna don’t you cry.

  373. I blame global warming for the fact that global warming can be blamed for everything.

  374. Nearly forgot this part:

    “Do you doubt that CO2 is a greenhouse gas? Do you doubt that it is transparent to visible light and opaque to infrared?”

    CO2 is not opaque to infrared, idiot child. It does have near-total absorption over a few differernt bands, but it is in no way “opaque to infrared”.

    See also: here.

    I am not nearly an expert in these matters, but you are making me look pretty good by comparison.

  375. I’d like an explanation of the positive feedback loop remark.

    The only positive feedback loop that comes to mind relates to a woman in labor. Bodily feedback loops are negative unless things are going wrong for you and your homeostasis is in danger of collapsing.

    Or it could just be that steve thought it sounded smaht.

  376. I’d like an explanation of the positive feedback loop remark.

    That’s why I replied “Ambulatory outpatient care”. I figured if he was just tossing around random three-word phrases that had no relation to the topic at hand, I could play, too.

  377. >CO2 is not opaque to infrared<

    and it takes alot of heat to change phases. like boccu heat for solid to liquid.

  378. Positive feedback can happen. It just never lasts very long, because real systems tend to go nonlinear pretty quickly when they start the process of approaching infinity.

    Example: audio feedback. Something eventually gives. A speaker blows, or an amp blows, or enters a saturation nonlinearity.

  379. In servo controls, positive feedback normally results in something hitting something else pretty hard, or you wind up smoking a servomotor or saturating a sensor.

  380. Sometimes all of the above. But I am not a guy who has actually put together and tested servomechanisms. I have just been around the theory and rubbed elbows with those who have been there done that.

  381. Sometimes positive feedback is slow. For instance, free-inertial navigation systems are unstable in the vertical channel. You have to compensate sensed acceleration (accelerometer data) with Earth gravity at the system’s altitude, or the system thinks it’s accelerating up at 1 gee.

    Everyone who does navigation for a living knows this, I think, but few others would care.

    Anyway: if you think you are higher in altitude than you really are, then you compensate too little for sensed gravity, and the system “falls” up. Altitude error increases unbounded. If on the other hand you think you are lower than you really are, you compensate too much, and wind up “falling” down. Even a system that is sitting on the ground will do this.

    The solution to this was to have a baro-altimeter attached, and so every military (and likely civilian) navigation system that works in 3-space has a baro-altimeter attached, to keep the airplane from eventually flying into the ground or too high.

    Anyway. That’s a slow positive feedback. Errors double every few hours, or something like that.

  382. Yes, Slart, but his explanation is like hearing the squeal from the speakers even before the mike gets turned on…

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